Author Topic: Lukvance  (Read 1140 times)

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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2014, 08:56:47 PM »
I haven't totally given up on him.  However, I fully understand how the forum moderators don't want to spend weeks trying to talk him out of this nearly useless approach to discussions he has.

I mean, how is it even slightly reasonable for someone to approach every discussion with the idea that the purpose of the discussion, whatever it is about, is to get other people to agree with their own personal definition of things in it?  Some of the time, sure.  That's what persuasive speech is all about.  But when a person is constantly trying to do that, and never letting up...that's not reasonable at all.  That's what Graybeard was referring to as stupid - his tendency to keep on and keep on and keep on and keep on and keep on until everyone involved wanted to scream at him to just shut up already, yet it was clear that he was prepared to continue keeping on pretty much indefinitely, because it was more important to him to win than it ever was to really try to communicate.

Lukvance, if you take only one thing away from all this, I hope it is the realization that what you were really doing is lecturing at us (which is to say, monologing at an audience).  I never really felt that I had ever established anything resembling a dialogue with you, and I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way.  What I consistently felt from you was that you weren't interested in actually listening to what we had to say, except to use as a lever to try to work us around so that we would realize that you were 'right' in the first place.  And even now, it's still clear that all you're interested in is trying to lever us around so you can keep doing that.

Offline Nam

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #117 on: October 03, 2014, 10:31:01 PM »
That's what persuasive speech is all about.  But when a person is constantly trying to do that, and never letting up...that's not reasonable at all.  That's what Graybeard was referring to as stupid - his tendency to keep on and keep on and keep on and keep on and keep on until everyone involved wanted to scream at him to just shut up already, yet it was clear that he was prepared to continue keeping on pretty much indefinitely, because it was more important to him to win than it ever was to really try to communicate.

Jstwebbrowsing does the same thing but he has an excuse: he's a JW. He has rule book to follow. ;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2014, 02:34:07 AM »
"I did not break any forum rules. I shouldn't be there."
That's what is perspiring from the point of view of someone else reading our exchange.
Of course he also read that a lot of people are irritated by the way I do things. Going to such extremes as using insults towards a person they never met.
He understand their frustration but does not support the fact that I should be punished for their frustration. Noting is keeping them in front of the computer, nothing is keeping them from ignoring me like many already did before.
Not responding to my questions or continue insulting me is also an option and NOTHING, not even a MODERATOR, is preventing them to do so, even if it's against the forum rules. Heck at least one moderator will even join them and support them in their behavior.

I wish I could continue challenging people here. They have great answers, some of them I've never heard before.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone or impended their everyday happy life. It was not my intention.
You're worth more than my time

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2014, 05:07:22 AM »
^I think you meant perplexing.

And you broke certain forum rules repeatedly.

"Responses to a thread must be on-topic and should contribute constructively to the discussion at hand." - I realize you might disagree, but many of your posts did not "contribute constructively to the discussion at hand".  For example, bringing up the Higgs boson the way you did umpteen-billion times was in no way constructive.  It was like listening to someone repeat the same anecdote, over and over and over again.  Used sparingly, it can be effective; used constantly, as you did, it disgusts and upsets people.  Therefore, excessive use of something like that in posts is not constructive.

"Discussion threads are for discussion of the topic at hand, not simply advertising one's opinions. As such, forum members are expected to back up assertions they make, and not engage in stonewalling, shifting goalposts, changing the subject, or employing similar tactics to avoid addressing points raised against their arguments." - By always telling people to make another thread rather than addressing tangential but related questions in the thread, you were stonewalling.  And answering questions with questions (which you also did a lot) falls under the "employing similar tactics" clause.

You were put in the ER because you violated these forum rules, and not just a few times.  Naturally, perceiving someone getting away with violating forum rules causes frustration, and frustrated people will kick up a huge fuss over what they're frustrated with until it's dealt with or the frustration itself ceases.  And will get more and more abrasive, even abusive, towards what they're frustrated with, the longer it goes on.

And the worst part of it all is that even now, you don't seem able to recognize just how badly you screwed up, and are acting like the people who are so seriously angered at you should just ignore you rather than even entertaining the possibility that you might have badly misjudged the situation, never mind doing something about your behavior.  Do you realize that if WWGHA were face-to-face rather than on a text-based forum, most people would have passed the point of shouting you down whenever you tried to speak months ago?  With very rare exceptions - I am one of them - most of the people on this forum are more than ready to see your posterior kicked out for good.  And even I am frankly worn out with trying to get through to you.

Even leaving aside the forum rules I brought up, there are unwritten rules of conduct when it comes to interacting with other people.  One of the foremost is "don't piss off the members of a community if you want to remain part of that community for long".  This is not an issue with one or two people in that community getting upset at you; this is an issue with dozens of people, the majority of the community, getting upset at you.

Has this finally gotten through to you, Lukvance?

Offline Lukvance

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #120 on: October 04, 2014, 01:47:07 PM »
I'm sorry to upset you, it was not my intention.

When it comes to religion it is comprehensible that some people get angry once they don't feel heard.

It doesn't happen to me so I don't understand it 100% I usually get angry when I get "spit on" and that moderators don't do their jobs...even if they were warned of the fact. So I might have insulted the person back in front of this no moderation on their behavior. I might have hurt their feeling more doing so. I am sorry but I am only human. I can only take so much insults before replying back.[1]

Theses rules you say I've broken have never been reported to me. If they had I would have corrected my reply accordingly.
I guess the Moderator was too busy to underline theses post that broke the rules.

Maybe YOU could find 3 of them? Listening to you, there seems to have so many, it shouldn't be that hard.
I could find many posts that do not "contribute constructively to the discussion at hand" mainly from our beloved nogodsforme and 2 other users that I simply ignored.
The easiest way would be for "the Moderator" to look back at those posts that I reported.

But as stated the Moderators apparently did not do their job and put me here because I caused too much work for them.
Since I am even here apparently causing too much job for them, they want to ban me forever.

I can't do much but apologize.
 1. 
I remember even having answering "harsh" to someone who did not insult me at all, just because of the others. I was so ashamed when I realized that. Anyway I apologized and answer to his reply in a more correct way.
You're worth more than my time

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2014, 02:37:41 PM »
I'm not a moderator (thus don't have access to the content of reports), and I don't have the time to look through your posts to find examples today.  By the time I did have time, you would likely already be banned, based on Graybeard's statement yesterday.

When I read your post, I mostly saw more attempts to put the responsibility on others.  The moderators should have told you what you were doing wrong; I should find examples of your posts to prove to you that you were acting that way.  But life doesn't work that way, once you get old enough to be considered an adult.  That applies to forum behavior as well as real life.  If you aren't willing (or able) to recognize the flaws in your own behavior after they're pointed out to you, other people are very likely not going to take the time to painstakingly point them out to you until you finally catch on.

I'm not that much different from you in some respects.  When I was growing up, I had trouble understanding the flaws in my own behavior, and was resistant to efforts by other people to point them out.  Often, I couldn't even see what was wrong, even when it was pointed out to me.  I had to come to realize that other people could see those flaws much more clearly than I could (and thus I had to at least be willing to make the effort to look), and I had to learn that other people weren't going to fix them for me.  They'd help me if I showed that I was seriously trying, but they wouldn't hold my hand and walk me through it.  I had to do most of the work.

And so it must be with you.  Nobody is expecting you to instantly change your behavior, you know.  That would be both unreasonable and unfair.  What they expect is that you'll recognize that there is a problem and work at solving it.  But you have to be willing to recognize that there is a problem, which is way harder than it sounds, because nobody is all that good at examining themselves, and we tend to think the world of ourselves, so it's very easy to simply assume that there is no problem.  But that's the worst thing you can do.

Look back at Graybeard's first post.  He asked you what you would do in order to change the direction you were headed.  To my recollection, it doesn't seem like you've answered that question.  So maybe you should make the effort to show him what you'll do to change the direction you're headed, instead of demanding, yet again, that people tell you what you were doing wrong.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Lukvance
« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2014, 02:47:41 PM »
It is with some regret that I must now close this thread with the regrettable effects on Lukvance.

A new view of the Catholic mind would have been welcome and enlightening, but such a view cannot be mere preaching, the repetition of arrant nonsense, manipulative tactics, a refusal to take responsibility, and the ignoring of the legitimate questions that surround any belief system.

We all wish Lukvance well in his life and hope that he can take away something useful from his time here.

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”