Author Topic: New study on what happens when we die.  (Read 3912 times)

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Offline Davedave

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2008, 05:04:40 PM »
Maybe some theist here can provide a full narrative of what, exactly, an out-of-body experience MIGHT prove.  I mean, what's the point?  Is it God changing his mind?  Is it God just teasing people?  Is it a divine revelation?  Should the Bible be appended to include their testaments?

Offline TownL7

Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2008, 05:40:51 PM »
Maybe some theist here can provide a full narrative of what, exactly, an out-of-body experience MIGHT prove.  I mean, what's the point?  Is it God changing his mind?  Is it God just teasing people?  Is it a divine revelation?  Should the Bible be appended to include their testaments?

I don't think this is a topic that many theist would support.  There are many theist websites that claim that OBE are linked to the occult.  In reading up on this study and the one leading up to it.  I find the study of the brain and mind being separate may lead to new technology to slow down damage that happens to the body quickly in death(some of this goes to the cell injury comments on this thread).  I guess a theist could argue that this study shows a "soul".  Some of the narratives where the "dead" person can describe events or people who came into the room even through a sheet was covering them.  All of the OBE take place from the top of the room, some studies are setting up visuals that a person could only see from that perspective.  One example was a deaf person who heard a conversation in the room.  I would not go so far as to say this proves any god, maybe a "soul" or "mind".

Offline Davedave

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2008, 05:56:33 PM »
You said it pushes the limits of science.  I would like to know what you meant by that.  How does it "push" the limits of science?  Does it break the limits of science?  I often see theists getting very excited about out-of-body experiences, yet when I start probing, I find that they have very little in the way of their own answers.  Not that such a result surprises me, but there it is.

Offline TownL7

Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2008, 06:07:17 PM »
Pushing the limits, was a statement by the doctor heading the study.  Looking at the possibility of slowing down body functions to a point of "death" but maintaining the medical ability to revive them.  Sounds like this is the next step beyond putting a person in a coma to protect them.  As I understand this doctor and the study he is doing, lets say I "die" on the hospital table from a heart attack.  Doctors would inject me with a medical solution to preserve my body from cell damage, repair the damage then revive me.  Part of the study contends that the brain and mind are different.  This is kind of where it leaves off because the want us to buy the study, I was unwilling to part with my money on this one.  I have tried to give a fair representation of the objectives with the information I could dig up on it.

Offline Davedave

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2008, 06:09:50 PM »
You claimed the statement in the OP.  You shared the sentiment.  Why?  Why is this anything other than a perfectly normal aspect of medical science?

Offline TownL7

Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2008, 06:17:24 PM »
Science has been unable to separate the brain and the mind.  Most science would say that it is one in the same.  If they can show that the brain and mind are two separate functions, they will accomplish was science has been unable to do until now.  OBE could happen in the mind even if the brain is "dead" only if the two are separate.  This would go a long way in explaining the narratives that come out of these experiences. 

Offline Davedave

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2008, 06:34:47 PM »
I have no idea what this means and I definitely don't see what that has to do with the "boundaries of science".  Science may also never have isolated protein D52, until one day, they did.  Is that "pushing the boundaries of science"?  No, making breakthroughs is what science does routinely.  It's what science is all about.  A new discovery doesn't push the boundaries of science.  It may push the boundaries of human knowledge, but that's hardly the same as pushing the boundaries of science.  This failure to properly parse a point alarms me.  Who made this error?  Was it the researcher or the journalist?  I wonder if the researcher actually ever said the words attributed to him.  If it was the researcher, he hardly seems like a person with a good grasp on fine distinctions.  I mean, this article is already unusually pointlessly sensationalist.  What are we talking about at all?  This article is not about recently published research.  It's not really about anything at all.  It's simply announcing that a project to study human consciousness is beginning.  Whoop-dee-do.  Is it the undertaking of the project that is "pushing the boundaries of science"?  What kind of so-called journalist would sit there as a scientist told him that he was pushing the boundaries of science and not ask a follow-up question like, "Uh, what do you mean, exactly?  That sounds pretty revolutionary, as you compare yourself to Albert Einstein, but it seems to me like we're just talking about studying the human brain under duress.  Care to elaborate a little?"  I mean, there ought to be a difference between a journalist and a stenographer, no?  If the researcher had said he owned a talking dog, would that have been the last question?  Pardon me, but this is shit.  Time magazine ought not let their pages simply be echo chambers for any idiot to stand up and make absurd claims in without being challenged.  Although, I have to say, it appears they did indeed correctly lowball their audience.  I have no idea why you would repeat this bald claim.  I've asked you twice now.  Do you have an answer?

Offline TownL7

Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2008, 07:51:21 PM »
Sounds like you have an issue with Time and Dr. Sam Parnia, so take it up with them.  Sorry this didn't meet with your seal of approval.  I found it amusing and interesting. 

Offline Davedave

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2008, 09:47:00 AM »
You said, "Like it says, this pushes the limits of science."  Do you make a habit of saying things without having the slightest idea about what the hell they mean?  There's a big gap between finding something interesting and amusing and parroting an outrageous and obviously false claim.  If you don't stand by your initial statement, why not retract it?  If you do stand by your initial statement, why don't you back it up?  What if, instead of claiming that he was pushing the boundaries of science, the interviewee had claimed he had visited Saturn?  Would you have said, "Like it says, he visited Saturn."?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 09:48:59 AM by Davedave »

Offline velkyn

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Re: New study on what happens when we die.
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2008, 10:16:20 AM »
Science has been unable to separate the brain and the mind.  Most science would say that it is one in the same.  If they can show that the brain and mind are two separate functions, they will accomplish was science has been unable to do until now.  OBE could happen in the mind even if the brain is "dead" only if the two are separate.  This would go a long way in explaining the narratives that come out of these experiences. 

I'm curious, how would one "sense" the mind if it weren't simply a function of the brain.  This would seem to invalidate the whole thing. 
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