Author Topic: Near death experiences of hell?  (Read 1180 times)

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Offline JonClement

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Near death experiences of hell?
« on: May 14, 2010, 11:19:29 AM »
He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Rawlings/Dr_Rawlings_Near_Death_Experiences.htm

TL;DR These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 12:50:59 PM by JonClement »

Offline One Above All

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2010, 11:39:31 AM »
Considering the brain can alter memories and pretty much everything, I'd say NDEs are not of real places or experiences
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline plethora

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2010, 11:44:07 AM »
What a bunch of crap!

Quote
[1st Witness]
There are people that talk about light, there are people that talk about floating above, there are people that talk about warmth and love, I didn’t feel any of that, I felt none of that.  I felt untold terror.
It is very easy to be an atheist when you’re successful, but it’s very difficult to be an atheist when you’re lying on your death bed.

Yeah... or it can be a horrible experience to feel that you're dying... a malfunctioning brain... possibly oxigen deprived...can play tricks on ya.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2010, 11:44:42 AM »
Yeah. When your brain is deprived of oxygen and dying, it can make you think some crazy s**t.

I saw a 500 foot tall tornado made out of fire once. I threw a bottle of whiskey at it, and then it laughed at me. The NERVE!  >:(

I've also travelled through time to a post-apocalyptic future and saw an entire apartment complex, all the windows broken out, buildings collapsing, survivalist camp fires burning through the windows, the fountain in the middle of the lake was spurting toxic radioactive sludge into the air...

Course, I was on hardcore drugs at the time, and not dying, but it all comes from the same place. Braintown, in Mind county, in the land of organic chemicals.

But no, really. I'm sure that goober's book is seriously compelling. I mean, just look at all that testimony from old bearded white guys.  &)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 11:59:53 AM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline catlady

Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 11:18:23 PM »
"Hell" is a make-believe place your religion uses to scare you. Relax. It's pretend.
Devout believers are safeguarded in a high degree against the risks of certain neurotic illnesses; their acceptance of the universal neurosis spares them the task of constructing a personal one.
-Sigmund Freud

Offline Emergence

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2010, 02:36:14 AM »
These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!

There's another way of looking at this: What if the concept of "hell" as we understand it is at least partially based on the experiences and perceptions reported by people who had close encounters with death that were as unpleasant as the ones described in the link? Then 'bad' NDEs like these do not resemble "hell", but the other way around, i.e. "hell" resembles bad NDEs. Just a thought.
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Offline penkie

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 02:46:41 AM »
There is quite a lot of interest in NDEs in the psychological and neuro-biological field and they have naturalistic explanations for NDEs that point towards stress, chemicals or partially functioning of the brain after clinical death as causes. Every systematic and scientific study I have seen on NDEs finds biological causes that can explain all the symptoms.

As many know, there are also a lot of spiritual explanations for NDEs and a lot of books have been written about it. A famous example is the Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel, who has written a book about the phenomenon.  He claims that biological explanations cannot explain all symptoms of NDE that he has encountered. The book is a best seller here in the Netherlands (now translated into english) and when I found out that my sister in law was also reading it, I've also looked at it. I was actually shocked how unscientific the book was, as you would expect a cardiologist to have some scientific background. However, the 'proof' of the spiritual side of NDEs was based on anecdotal evidence. In other words, he had scientifically unverified stories from people that experienced NDEs that were "not explainable by science". 'Of course', he believes these people as 'they had no reason to lie'. Never mind their traumatic life threatening experience and that their mind might have filled in the blanks afterwards.

He also has a whole chapter complaining about science, claiming that "science doesn't know everything", "science has no hart, because it is very clinical and refutes the personal experiences of people", "science has just theories", "the most successful scientist of the past like Galileo were also not excepted by their peers", and so on. And then the worst part of the book starts, his own made up explanation. Here he ties pseudo-scientific explanations of quantum mechanics,  entanglement, non-local awareness, holographic universe principle, and ties them all together to a scientific sounding turd.

Maybe other good scientific books about NDE exist that conclude a spiritual cause, but I highly doubt it. The one that I tried to read, and was famous for being scientific, was all but that and horrifically written.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 02:49:54 AM by penkie »
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 02:55:43 AM »
I have never been able to find a link to it but I once saw a TV show either on discovery or semi scientific docudrama. In Nasa is a sceintist who can make NDEs happen at will. His only tool? A giant centrifuge. I stressed the brain and deprives enough blood to the brain to produce these at on command.


That said I am kinda the other direction. I died and nothing. Shocked back to life and nothing. I think I got cheated... Then again that might make me a theist so maybe thx very much.

Offline penkie

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2010, 03:01:08 AM »
I have never been able to find a link to it but I once saw a TV show either on discovery or semi scientific docudrama. In Nasa is a sceintist who can make NDEs happen at will. His only tool? A giant centrifuge. I stressed the brain and deprives enough blood to the brain to produce these at on command.
Cool, yes, I've seen that same documentary but never found it back. It showed that all NASA test pilots were tested to see the maximum G-force they could endure before passing out, so to determine which plain they could fly. Many of the pilots that passed out had NDEs. The funny thing with the documentary was that it started with all this spiritual explanations some 'experts' had for NDE, and just when it really started to get irritating, in the finale they showed this NASA stuff which concluded that it probably was all biological.
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal."

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 04:48:59 AM »
He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Rawlings/Dr_Rawlings_Near_Death_Experiences.htm

TL;DR These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!

Sorry, but that site sounds like a lot of bollocks.  Typical quote:

"As he was giving me CPR, he was trying to install a pacemaker with the other hand."  Garbage.  No WAY would any doctor do both those things at once.

"As he was walking on the treadmill I noticed that his heart had stopped and his breathing has stopped.  He was still walking and talking for a minute or two before the lack of blood to the brain caused him to drop dead.  He was dead and didn’t even know it.  I should have told him."  More garbage.

And his description of how to give CPR?  Even more garbage.  You DON'T "reach into the mouth" to clear the airway, you reposition the head first (assuming there is no risk of spinal injury), then you do the finger sweep.  And ONE chest compression?  Try 30.

I do not believe this guy is a medical doctor.   A doctor would not make such elementary errors as those.  And if he is lying about that, then I do not believe any of the alleged "testimonies" have a shred of truth to them either.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Nick

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 06:48:38 AM »
I'm scared.  I don't want to go to hell. :'(
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline penkie

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 06:50:54 AM »
I'm scared.  I don't want to go to hell. :'(
You won't. Instead you will be reduced to nothing and everything you ever did will turn out to be totally pointless. Lucky you.  :D
"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal."

Offline Nick

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 08:24:59 AM »
Thanks, I feel better now. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2010, 02:30:01 PM »
NDEs are exactly what they say - near death experiences. What they are not is the experiences of death since no one returns from death. Trying to persuade people that these two are same is plain cheating.

Oh, and not only can a NASA centrifuge do the job but some drugs are reportedly able to induce the same experience too. Sorry, I can't remember what drugs but if I find it I'll post again.

Back quite quickly. How about
Quote
http://www.lycaeum.org/leda/docs/9260.shtml?ID=9260
?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online Nam

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2010, 03:01:14 PM »
He's a transcript of a documentary about people with NDE's.

http://spiritlessons.com/Documents/Rawlings/Dr_Rawlings_Near_Death_Experiences.htm

TL;DR These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!

Is this supposed to be evidence of something? 'Cause I don't see any evidence of anything. It seems people state they encountered something; doesn't mean they did.

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Offline thunderridge

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2010, 02:31:14 PM »
On spiritlessons.com there is one person that went to hell and saw John Lennon of the and I quote "satanic rock band the Beattles."

Offline Woland

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2010, 03:28:31 PM »
I'm scared.  I don't want to go to hell. :'(
You won't. Instead you will be reduced to nothing and everything you ever did will turn out to be totally pointless. Lucky you.  :D

:D

Sometimes, I wonder why people think they need to have a purpose dictated from "above" to think that their life deserves living and enjoying.

Oh well.

Woland

Offline Matt__

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2010, 05:25:21 PM »

Have you ever heard of a coran helmet? http://www.shaktitechnology.com/god_helmet.htm

I dropped a few tabs of lsd on sunday night, had awesome tattoo's all night whilst watching myself age to around 150 when my skin started melting off. It's really not that hard to induce distorted states of consciousness.

Offline plethora

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2010, 05:04:39 AM »
Sometimes, I wonder why people think they need to have a purpose dictated from "above" to think that their life deserves living and enjoying.

It's the result of a very useful evolutionary trait. Fear of death.
The truth doesn't give a shit about our feelings.

Online bertatberts

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2010, 05:51:07 AM »
These atheists didn't believe in, or even know about hell, and then they died, went to hell and came back!
Lol, Really. Think about your statement and then get back to us.
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Offline Dominic

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2010, 12:24:45 PM »

Just remember one thing.  It is never too late to call on God.  "God if you exist please help me.  Please save me."

If you ever find yourself having an experience (NDE or otherwise) like those people experienced, just remember that one short request.

If you never need it then fine, you have lost nothing.  Remember that one request if you forget everything else that you ever knew. 

This is not to try and scare you.  This is to offer you hope if the worst case scenario should come about.



Offline Omen

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2010, 12:37:11 PM »

Just remember one thing.

What?

Quote
  It is never too late <nonsensical claim that know reason to be believed is offered for>

So mindlessly preaching with religious platitudes that are inseparable from just randomly making whatever you want up is supposed to be informative how?  Notice the question is about the ability for what you claim to convey a meaningfully intelligible idea.  So without any knowledge or even ability to know what you're talking about, how could we expect to 'remember'?  Remember that you can randomly make up anything you wish in a pleading manner that no one has any reason to believe in the first place?

Why not .. remember that leprechauns are always willing to help you out when it comes to marflargs, and its never to late to call on them?

How is that claim any different from:

"remember its never to late to call on god.."

Why would one be taken any more seriously then the other?

What information does the statement carry that MEANS anything more then the other?

Quote
If you ever find yourself having an experience ...

Been there, done that.

Why?

Even if you are given the benefit of the doubt, the actual 'experience' doesn't convey information that allows one to conclusively know that what is happening is true or not.  Plus, what happens to your request when it comes to experiences that contradict the religious myth of your preferred delusion?  Do you just pretend like those don't happen?  That people don't experience it in the exact same manner... or even not at all?

Notice, this goes RIGHT BACK to the original claim about being informed and conveying ideas that are intelligible in a way to be understood.. at all.  So you are reducing the credibility of your claim to a point where knowledge cannot be known, as you continuously make up new claims without any ability to justify a single statement you make.

Quote
This is not to try and scare you.

Its an emotionally filled pleading platitude, meant to satisfy no one else here except yourself.  It doesn't even convey enough information to someone if we even give you the benefit of the doubt, specifically because the claims you do make are so absent of any reasonable knowledge that it makes every claim you insist up completely irrational.  The reason I say "yourself" is precisely because of the LACK of informative basis that your claim contains, in combination with your complete lack of concern that your claim is totally uninformative.
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Offline Operator_A25

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2010, 12:50:46 PM »
Dominic,

This is a discussion forum, not a pulpit for your sermons. You will wear out your welcome in a hurry if you keep it up.

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Offline Str82Hell

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2010, 12:59:12 PM »
bm
Quote from: George Bernard Shaw
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2010, 08:16:11 AM »
Just remember one thing.  It is never too late to call on Allah.  "Allahif you exist please help me.  Please save me."
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline velkyn

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Re: Near death experiences of hell?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2010, 02:39:38 PM »

Just remember one thing.  It is never too late to call on God.  "God if you exist please help me.  Please save me."
How many people have died doing that?  Save me from death, save my soul.  NO evidence either happens. Your bible says that there are unforgivable sins and people who your god has decided will never be saved. 
Quote
If you ever find yourself having an experience (NDE or otherwise) like those people experienced, just remember that one short request. If you never need it then fine, you have lost nothing.  Remember that one request if you forget everything else that you ever knew.
I would have lost any self-respect I have. And if your god is as described, I have no interest in being saved by such an entity.   I am also curious about an entity that evidently has so little discernment that it would accept a conversion from pure FEAR.   
Quote
This is not to try and scare you.  This is to offer you hope if the worst case scenario should come about.
  Please, Dom, don't lie.  That's all your religion is, playing on the fear of death and hell.

The link leads to people making the usual lies about atheists, which is sad if they actually are concerned with some "soul" and where it is going.    I find this the most disgusting

Quote
This is the critical moment in life.  If you can catch people before they die and give them the option of accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior, then they can’t loose whether they live or die.  That is with them forever.  And when they die like this, we don’t have to question where they went.  And the preacher will be right when he says they are in Heaven.  She went to heaven to be with God.

nothign like trading cpr for being bleated at, eh? 
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