Author Topic: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]  (Read 418 times)

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Offline DL

The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« on: September 16, 2008, 11:33:49 AM »

i was told to watch your video by someone and i think what you said is complete bull shit. i myself am a Christian and science is just a way for man to explain the unknown. so because man doesnt understand God, he tries to explain it and when man cannot explain something he just says it doesnt exist.

But please use your science to explain exorcisms and people that are possessed. is the person just having a bad attitude? there has been many documented cases of such possessions. look it up for yourself, if you dont believe me. what about the cases of stigmata? explain them with science? are you just going to say that these dont exist or never happen? how is it that with stigmata the person receives the same whips marks and scares of Jesus Christ? how is that a coincidence?

now i am not tryin got force my faith or ideals on you because i believe that everyone has a right to think what they want, but i dont think it is right for atheists to go around discouraging people from their religions.

my only question to you is who would have it worse if they were wrong, me or you? if im wrong then according to your atheist beliefs then i will just be dead and nothing will happen. but what if your wrong? then you will spend all of eternity in a pit of fire.

if i offended you then i am sorry, but i should be able to question your beliefs as you can question mine. I believe it is wrong for you to put videos up trying to make more people atheists. it is your right to do what you want. but you should be a better human being and not force your beliefs on others.

Offline Hermes

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2008, 12:19:47 PM »
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i was told to watch your video by someone and i think what you said is complete bull s**t. i myself am a Christian and science is just a way for man to explain the unknown. so because man doesnt understand God, he tries to explain it and when man cannot explain something he just says it doesnt exist.

It seems that you don't know what science is.  This is a common problem.  I blame the education system.  If you want to discuss this, or if I misunderstood your comments, come on by the forums.

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But please use your science to explain exorcisms and people that are possessed. is the person just having a bad attitude? there has been many documented cases of such possessions. look it up for yourself, if you dont believe me. what about the cases of stigmata? explain them with science? are you just going to say that these dont exist or never happen? how is it that with stigmata the person receives the same whips marks and scares of Jesus Christ? how is that a coincidence?

Well, first off, it's not 'my science'.  I don't make any money as a scientist and only have minimal formal training.

As for the supernatural events you describe, there is an organization with a $1,000,000 USD available for any proof of supernatural claims.  If you want the money -- or you would like me to change to your religion -- come to the forums and I'll provide you with details on how to collect and convert people to your religion in droves.

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now i am not tryin got force my faith or ideals on you because i believe that everyone has a right to think what they want, but i dont think it is right for atheists to go around discouraging people from their religions.

I don't think it is right for Christians and Christian organizations to go around and cause problems such as spreading ignorance, and advocating actions that lead to people getting harmed, maimed, and dead.  I also don't like the bigotry spread by Christians and Christian groups about non-Christians. 

I'll make you a deal.  If you get Christians to stop doing these things, I'll work my hardest to get the person who posts the videos and other atheists that post similar videos to stop doing that.  It would be worth it to me to dedicate my life to this effort, though I think that if most atheists noticed that Christians had changed they would probably stop posting the videos.  Unfortunately, the problem remains and while I do see a few Christians standing up and challenging other Christians there are very few that are doing do.

If you are against the harms pushed on the world by Christians in the name of Christianity, then I thank you.

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my only question to you is who would have it worse if they were wrong, me or you? if im wrong then according to your atheist beliefs then i will just be dead and nothing will happen. but what if your wrong? then you will spend all of eternity in a pit of fire.

That would be something called "Pascal's Wager".  It's invalid on so many levels it would take me a few pages to explain why.  Any search of the web for pascals wager should give you more than enough to look for yourself and judge if I'm properly describing the situation.

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if i offended you then i am sorry, but i should be able to question your beliefs as you can question mine. I believe it is wrong for you to put videos up trying to make more people atheists. it is your right to do what you want. but you should be a better human being and not force your beliefs on others.

I agree.  Questioning -- and better, looking at reality and what facts we know or think we know -- are important.

Now that you know what is necessary to have me work on getting the videos removed, do you have any plans to help with the effort to stop the bad deeds of your fellow Christians?
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Vynn

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2008, 12:34:56 PM »
Hermes, quit foisting "your science" on all these people.

And by the way, this site does NOT have the best optical illusion in the world. That's .

Offline Irish

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2008, 12:36:26 PM »
Hello,

I did not make the videos but I will address the comments you made.


i was told to watch your video by someone and i think what you said is complete bull s**t. i myself am a Christian and science is just a way for man to explain the unknown. so because man doesnt understand God, he tries to explain it and when man cannot explain something he just says it doesnt exist.

As opposed to creating an imaginary being in the sky that loves or promotes incest, rape, torture, beastiality, murder, and sacrifices to explain things man cannot explain. And yes, science is a way to explain the unknown. That is what scientists do.  They take something we don't know about or have no understanding of, study it, conduct experiments, confer data between them and when all is said and done give a finding of the unknown.

And I believe your assertions that man doesn't understand god. If god were to exist and man understood him perfectly there would be no reason for multiple denominations of the same religion as is evident in the religion of christianity. Even between chrisitians you can't decide what to believe about god.  The protestant says one thing, the catholic says another, then the baptists.... I would ask you sir/madam... what denomination are you? Because whatever you are you probably couldn't even explain to me what the other denominations believe or understand.


But please use your science to explain exorcisms and people that are possessed. is the person just having a bad attitude? there has been many documented cases of such possessions. look it up for yourself, if you dont believe me. what about the cases of stigmata? explain them with science? are you just going to say that these dont exist or never happen? how is it that with stigmata the person receives the same whips marks and scares of Jesus Christ? how is that a coincidence?

Drugs, mental problems, stress induced psychosis, attention seeking... Stigmata-drugs, mental problems (they call it "self-destructive" now-a-days), attention seeking. How do you know what the exact whip marks or scars of jesus are? I presume that a whip over the back is a whip over the back. How could you differentiate scars on peoples back as "Jesus scars" or just scars?

now i am not tryin got force my faith or ideals on you because i believe that everyone has a right to think what they want, but i dont think it is right for atheists to go around discouraging people from their religions.

my only question to you is who would have it worse if they were wrong, me or you? if im wrong then according to your atheist beliefs then i will just be dead and nothing will happen. but what if your wrong? then you will spend all of eternity in a pit of fire.

You say you believe that everyone has a right to think what they want and yet this message opened by saying that the video you saw was bull s***. It sounds like you are not accepting of everyones beliefs and views.  You came it to this message already have a preconceived notion that atheists are just hate-mongers, and "down with religion", and are just a bunch of stupid oafs, when you are entirely wrong on your assumptions. And on the contrary I don't think it's right for theists to go around encouraging people from our lack of religion.

if i offended you then i am sorry, but i should be able to question your beliefs as you can question mine. I believe it is wrong for you to put videos up trying to make more people atheists. it is your right to do what you want. but you should be a better human being and not force your beliefs on others.

When we converse on this forum it is not the goal to make more people atheists. Define "better human" in the context that all we are doing is posting our viewpoints and beliefs.  Do you believe that by us being proclaimed atheists we are automatically less human than a theistic person... I sure hope you don't think like that.

La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Hermes

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2008, 01:22:39 PM »
Hermes, quit foisting "your science" on all these people.

I had no choice.  Newton made me do it.  You could say I fell into the habit.

And by the way, this site does NOT have the best optical illusion in the world. That's .

Hmmm...for a moment I though I remembered owning one of those.  Then I remembered it was one of those floating spinning top gadgets.   Not an illusion, but very cool to play with.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline jedweber

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2008, 02:12:05 PM »
please use your science to explain exorcisms and people that are possessed.


That's easy. A psychologist could explain it to you.


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there has been many documented cases of such possessions. look it up for yourself, if you dont believe me.


Yes, there are many documented cases of alleged possession, but not a single one shown to be caused by a demon.

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what about the cases of stigmata? explain them with science?

All of them could be explained by self-infliction and/or psychosomatic causes. Inflicting stigmata could be as easy as using my fingernails to wound my palms.

Why does stigmata usually appear in the hands, when we know that people were actually crucified through the wrists? (confirmed by recovered bodies). Could it be that people are affected by religious art? 

Offline velkyn

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Re: The best optical illusion in the world! [#422]
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2008, 03:14:25 PM »
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i was told to watch your video by someone and i think what you said is complete bull s**t. i myself am a Christian and science is just a way for man to explain the unknown. so because man doesnt understand God, he tries to explain it and when man cannot explain something he just says it doesnt exist.
But please use your science to explain exorcisms and people that are possessed. is the person just having a bad attitude? there has been many documented cases of such possessions. look it up for yourself, if you dont believe me. what about the cases of stigmata? explain them with science? are you just going to say that these dont exist or never happen? how is it that with stigmata the person receives the same whips marks and scares of Jesus Christ? how is that a coincidence?
No, there has not been.  I have looked it up for myself.  It is obvious that you have not.  Stigmata have been shown to be people harming themselves.  People make the same marks on them because the details are written down in your holy book.  Shall I cite the "evidence" that aliens have been on earth? It is claimed to be documented.  Do you believe in aliens?  People have claimed to do other miracles in the name of other gods, do you believe in them?
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now i am not tryin got force my faith or ideals on you because i believe that everyone has a right to think what they want, but i dont think it is right for atheists to go around discouraging people from their religions.
Why not?  What harm does it cause? 
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my only question to you is who would have it worse if they were wrong, me or you? if im wrong then according to your atheist beliefs then i will just be dead and nothing will happen. but what if your wrong? then you will spend all of eternity in a pit of fire.
Please look up Pascal's Wager.  Now realize that you are offending ever other god by your belief in yours.  Can you tell me for sure you have the right one?
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if i offended you then i am sorry, but i should be able to question your beliefs as you can question mine. I believe it is wrong for you to put videos up trying to make more people atheists. it is your right to do what you want. but you should be a better human being and not force your beliefs on others.
I welcome anyone who questions my beliefs.  But those who bring nonsense as "evidence" of their beliefs are going to be called on it.  I think it is wrong for people to claim that their invisible friend is better than mine and will damn me to eternal torture.  I don't do this, many Christians do.  Who is the better human being here?
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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