Peace to you all, I will post my first post on this forum here, I am Catholic and will answer your question as I understand it.
Hello, SOIAM. As they say, "Peace be with you," I say, "And also with you."
Let's get started.
The snake was Lucifer, God never ever lies, God said they would die if they ate the fruit, that is exactly what happened, as soon as they ate the fruit God removed His Spirit and His graces and virtues which was their protection against the devil/demons.
The snake never revealed itself to be Satan. However, the snake signifies deceit. God did lie. Dying is not an issue to take lightly. He didn't say he'd exile them from the Garden of Eden. He could have said that, yet instead, he told them they would die.
Adam and Eve had nothing taken away, other than being exiled from the Garden [I imagine it to be a pretty place]. He did not take away "His Spirit", nor "His Graces", nor "His Virtues". After he exiled them, Adam and Eve decided to settle down and have children. Their children had children [through incest]. God gave them His blessing and thought all this to be good, as said in the Bible. He indeed did exile them from the Garden and thus, denied them access to the Tree of Knowledge. But he took nothing more away from Adam and Eve. They both went off on their journey to expand. That's it.
The archangel with its fiery sword guarded the gate to the Garden. Did God also take away their protection? No. You know why, SOAMI? He's God! He can definitely protect them, whether they be in that Garden, which nobody else could enter, or on the other side of the world. Adam and Eve were never under attack from demons, nor Satan himself. The beginning of the Book of Genesis showed Adam and Eve to be prospering.
Again, I say, as I have read: Nothing was taken away from them. Instead, they gained from eating the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge [and the tree implies what it gave them]. They realized they were naked, first thing. Is being naked "beautiful"? I guess so! What God was depriving them from was corruption of any kind. When they ate that fruit, they were no longer "innocent like children" [Jesus asks this of all his followers]. God was disobeyed. The snake deceived them by telling them that it's OK to eat the fruit. However, them being "innocent", they knew no better. God only wants the utmost obedience from his followers. No more, no less. His word is law.
For them to be "corrupted" with the most basic of knowledge, it gave God the danger of not being followed as the puny humans are supposed to. From the beginning, all he wants is humans to fear him, nor disobey him. The more "innocent" and naive they are, the better it is for Him. Why? I do not know. It is not explained in the Bible.
As a side-note: Isn't it funny that the more people know, the more likely they are to be free of any religion or anything that is meant to "woo" people? To me, this is as much as much mythology as the Greek's, the Egyptian's, the early Semitic people's [etc] pantheon.
I digress though. It's interesting to talk about this. Now that we got this all clarified, let's move on.
Then He kicked them out of the garden and placed a flaming sword to prevent them eating from the tree of life, which was keeping them alive, so because they had already been consuming the fruit from the tree of life Adam lived a total of 930 years I would roughly estimate that after he left the garden and stopped consuming the fruit of the tree of life he lived about 800 years.
Nothing to clarify here. The Tree of Life was keeping them alive more than they should be alive. They were to be forever alive, because they were both His only creations, and innocent like children, naive, and more than willing to worship Him. Did they ever think beyond anything
? No. The whole point of them not eating it was, in a way, to see how far their obedience would go, even as naive and obeying as they were. God made a mistake, which is surprising since God is supposed to be a perfect being free of error: Omnipotent, all-knowing, and all-seeing.
So although they didn't immediately drop dead in the human body, they were as good as dead since they now had sinned against God (but they had no way to remove that sin) and Lucifer and his demons now had access to them, and they would eventually end up in hell once their human bodies perished, unless God in His mercy decided to save them. Since you cannot be with God if you have even just a small sin.
Yes, they had sinned by simply disobeying God. It's too bad that according to this one story
, every single human will go to hell and no one is able to reach heaven, according to the mythological phenomenon that is presented in the Bible, even with after the story of Jesus and God saying he can forgive mankind for their sins. It's just not possible to get to heaven with modern Christianity where it's at.
And again, Lucifer was not there. He did not attack Adam and Eve. They were not harmed, other than not consuming the Tree of Life made them immortal no more. Personally, I don't see why I would want to be immortal; boring, boring, boring. I guess back then, immortality seemed cool.
Regarding their deaths, according to how Christianity works, yes. They would go to hell, unless God relieved them from their sins and took them to heaven. I don't think it ever says anything regarding where they ended up in the afterlife. As the Book of Genesis shifts focus into their children, their fate ended up being irrelevant. It is not clear in the Bible as to what happened to them after their deaths.
Anyway, it seems that there's infinite transgression. It only took one time to sin, and it can only be assumed that they were destined to hell. Just like all other humans would be under modern Christianity today. I'll tell you now, SOAMI, and only once, and that is that no human is in heaven. Of course, people say the weirdest things in name of the Christian God, despite the fact he's not present, nor saying anything. They say that everyone that believes go to heaven, or that God just randomly picks and chooses. That's not how it works when the Bible is finally read and understood, however.
(Lucifer's sin was that he wanted to be better than God. Pride)
Nowhere does it say that in the Bible. That is up to personal interpretation, which is not proper practice of hermeneutics. What happened to Lucifer was simply an act of rebellion gone, well, exactly like it should have gone; God is all-knowing and omnipotent. Lucifer wasn't going to win, and SOIAM: Satan can never win to begin with. The only way the being could win is if God gets lazy and decides, "Nah. I'm not going to save this person. Simply because. I don't care if I get more followers that way." Under the assumption this being exists.
that was all it took to get kicked out of heaven. (the greatest danger we face is the fact that Lucifer is aware of just how easy it is to lose God, and uses everything you could imagine and more to deceive us.)
Adam and Eve never lost God, SOAMI. They simply got kicked out of a nice garden and were denied immortality. And again, Satan is not supposed to win to begin with. It goes against the very mythological phenomenon that God is omnipotent, like He says he is. Yet, there are instances in which God "loses", or nothing is done about the situation.
It just leads to the conclusion that this deity doesn't exist, nor any other deity/supernatural being.
I will also give you an interpretation and how it still applies to us today.
The 2 trees (tree of life and tree of knowledge) are equivalent today to good and evil, they represent God and Lucifer, if you go to God, He looks after you here and in heaven and if you choose the tree of knowledge/Lucifer/sin you die, twice, once in the human form and a second time when you get cast into hell. So having the tree of knowledge/Lucifer in the garden wasn't what made Eve sin it was the fact that she chose to eat the fruit/disobey/sin despite the fact that she knew she had been commanded not to do so.
...Or it could be, like many Christians believe today, that this all happened. That none of it is metaphorical. That it is not up to personal interpretation. Because according to Christian mythology, the Bible IS the Word of God. There's nothing more to this, other than what was already clarified and said.
The Tree of Knowledge was... just there. Why did God place it there? Bible doesn't clarify. Because we both know that God is in control of evil, as said in the Bible, it can be assumed that He placed the snake there to see the range of His creations' obedience. And since he is all-knowing, this all was supposed to happen. However, that's too perfect, and God made one too many mistakes throughout the Bible [this being is supposed to be perfect, and also an angry and jealous one] that contradicts this deity's nature. The mythology as described in the Bible is very flawed. It's terribly obvious different authors wrote it, and that they really had no clue how to make up the story further in order to make it clearer.
Today we have the 10 commandments and every time somebody breaks a commandment/ sins it is equivalent to us being in the garden of Eden and taking a bite out of the fruit of the tree of knowledge as Eve did.
And that everyone's going to hell, including all "good" and "true" Christians.
The problem is that most of the people today are sitting in the tree all day and night eating the fruit one after the other while ignoring God and blaspheming and laughing at Him, which is not a good thing since your eternal resting place depends on His mercy and forgiveness.
Most people? You are describing the other side of your religion, which is Satanism. "Most people" are not Satanists, SOAMI. Neither is anyone on WWGHA. I think, if my memory's right, when this one Satanist came up recently upon WWGHA, he was ridiculed well-enough to see that people that are free of deities and the supernatural are not the equivalent to the "evil" side of mythology.
What I am is appalled. Appalled because the Bible is very poorly written. The battle between "Good and Evil" is very flawed; it's like reading a bad book, and it's not making any sense. Practicing hermeneutics doesn't make it any better, unless they drop hermenetics, and go with pure personal interpretation according to emotion. Which is not scholarly. Which is incorrect.
Now that we are onto Satanists, they are deluded and even bigger idiots. I don't understand them, just like I don't understand Christians believing in a flawed deity who is not supposed to be flawed. Ultimately, the ones worshiping/going with the supposed evil side, is no more better.
Like you see, I am neutral [because I don't believe in your deity nor any other, so I have no emotional attachment, except my husband, of course] and discussing about the Bible. Anyway.
That explains why Gods spirit leaves as it does not like sin since it leads to certain death. So sin is death and it killed Adam and Eve.
Again, personal interpretation = Is a no-no
Sin is not death. Nowhere is it stated in the Bible. Adam and Eve died like they were supposed to, since they no longer ate the Tree of Life. God denied them immortality.
On the flip side, if we were to climb down the tree and move away from it/stop sinning, intending to never return to it we could then approach God/ ask for forgiveness and mercy and because God is so merciful if done correctly (sacrament of confession) we can obtain forgiveness and God can come closer and send His spirit back into us/live/eat of the tree of life.
Only to end up in hell? Again, the Bible mythology is just incredibly flawed...
It's Catch 22: No Christian is going to heaven, even if they believe with the very bottom of their hearts, or whatever emotional appeal there is to the religion. But, if they'd rather believe that they are going to heaven, even though technically, everyone is going to hell, just for the emotional comfort, then err... Go right ahead?
God Himself said that so it is true as He never lies.
We already went over this. God did lie, also, about his followers going to heaven. Again, infinite transgression. Whatever sin you commit first will be the destiny to your fate, according to the Bible. Even with some priest telling you that you are forgiven. Even with Jesus "dying for mankind's sins".
Unfortunately most of the population today is asleep and although they think they are awake are heading for a major disaster that will be hell.
Asleep? Everyone's fully awake and living, as this planet goes 'round and 'round. Life always moves on. And this "major disaster" you speak of, which I assume is the Rapture, still has yet to come, after millennia. There is no "and this time it will happen!" It's just mythology.
And as I already mentioned, every Christian is going to hell, simply according to all of the content in the Bible. Which means you would be going to hell, too, and even those who do "good deeds" are not saved. Fortunately, since this religion is just as real as Jaidaism and Animism, that won't happen.
well that is a condensed summary of what occurred. Hope it helped I can explain in more detail if you don't fully understand.
Don't worry. Vast majority, if not, all people here at WWGHA, have read the majority, or all, of the Bible. We also have knowledge of other religions and anything "wooing". You do not need to display Bible verses unless absolutely necessary. Everyone should have at the least read the whole Book of Genesis, so no need for the relevant Bible verses.
God is extremely intelligent so He put the tree of life as an insurance policy, If humans ever decided to go against God He could just kick them out of the garden preventing them from eating the fruit of life and eventually dying, and He would not have to kill them Himself that way, they would just kill themselves/self destruct, thanks to their free will and Lucifer's manipulation and lies. God would then only take the righteous souls who were awake and who had their name written in the book of life or had not had their name blotted out due to their sins and failure to seek forgiveness. But since the souls can't be killed they need to go somewhere, when heaven is out of the question they end up taken by Lucifer with him to hell for all eternity since they had chosen to worship him above Almighty God Creator of heaven and earth while they breathed their few short breaths on earth. Shame really.
Err. Keep the personal interpretation to yourself, SOAMI. You lost everyone here.
Despite that, nice discussing with you.