Author Topic: If you have a question about Jesus  (Read 17833 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline anthony_retford

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 627
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2010, 04:39:08 AM »
Please ask, I love Jesus and I love talking about Him.

How can you love something you have never seen? What sort of love is this? Aren't you just enamoured by pictures and words? You cannot love someone you have not had any contact with. Name me one person in this world you have never seen or heard from that you "love"? If you can't do this then why do you claim to "love" your Jesus? Why should anyone not believe you are delusional?
People are 'erroneously confident' in their knowledge and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe.
Max Bazenman, Harvard University

Offline Joseph

  • Emergency Room
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2010, 04:41:14 AM »
Instead of skirting the issue, provide the proof.  You said Jesus made such a claim.  Prove it.
I said that Jesus claimed to be divine. Do you want me to prove it?

Yes, we want that. And prove it will require more than bible quotes since we atheists don't consider those to be the best evidence.

It's not possible to prove God outside the bible since Jesus as the name of God is also from the bible.

 If someone proves God outside the bible where will be the link? How will one tell whether it's Jesus or another?

By refuting the scriptures, the Atheists have ligatured their faculty of ever knowing God. No wonder they are atheists.
What if the future we hope for depends on yesterday? We only have now to live the life.

Offline ksm

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1592
  • Darwins +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2010, 05:17:30 AM »
Fool, if you are going to talk about "Jesus" can you at least take the trouble to his name right?

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7270
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2010, 06:35:49 AM »
Fool, I asked you a specific question about Jesus, and you have not provided me a single example of Jesus calling himself divine.

I believe Jesus was a real person who walked the earth 2,000 years ago.  I believe he brought a message of keeping Gods laws.  I believe he was interested in teaching people to love their neighbor and honor God.

I do not believe the he considered himself God, and I would like you to answer the question.  Where in The Bible did Jesus specifically say that he was God, or divine, like God?

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1387
  • Darwins +48/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2010, 06:46:12 AM »
It's not possible to prove God outside the bible since Jesus as the name of God is also from the bible.
It's not possible to prove god/jesus with the bible either, as subjective information cannot be deemed evidence. Could you prove Harry Potter, James Bond, or Winnie the Pooh with the books written about them.
Get serious please and think!
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Bad Pear

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
  • Darwins +16/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Observations from one bad fruit to the bunch.
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2010, 07:38:48 AM »
I do like the name that he (the OP) has chosen, It's very efficient. You can address him properly and descriptively with a single word.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6856
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2010, 07:48:48 AM »
OP, did jesus have a rectum, and did he poop? If he did, was it always correct solid, tube-shaped poo or did he sometimes get the runs? Was he ever out of commission for a day or two, not able to do miracles because he was tied up at the hole in the ground? Additonal, did he ever smell like faeces?   

Thanks for this thread! I have so many questions!
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline dmnemaine

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1557
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2010, 09:20:42 AM »
Actually my point is very relevant.  I assumed that since you were talking about your favorite fictional character, I could talk about mine.
Oh, then it was a simple mistake. I'm not talking about a fictional character.

Do you see now how your point was irrelevant to this thread?
There are no contemporary sources for the existence of the biblical Jesus that corroborate the biblical narrative.  It's no different than any other stories written about mythological gods and heroes who never existed. 

Offline dmnemaine

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1557
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2010, 09:39:43 AM »
The historical evidence of people having met Jesus are the Gospels of the New Testament, and the references to persons in other parts of the New Testament. It would be extraordinary for people to agree as a group to write about a person claimed to be real if that person was not actually real.
It would not be extraordinary if those people were attempting to promote their own agenda, such as the spread of their religion.

 The bible is not historical evidence of the reality of a person named Jesus unless you have evidence from contemporary outside sources that the biblical narrative is correct.  Your reasoning is circular.  What you are in essence saying is "The bible says that Jesus is real, so Jesus is real because the bible says so." 

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2010, 12:15:44 PM »
It's not possible to prove God outside the bible since Jesus as the name of God is also from the bible.
 If someone proves God outside the bible where will be the link? How will one tell whether it's Jesus or another?
By refuting the scriptures, the Atheists have ligatured their faculty of ever knowing God. No wonder they are atheists.
"ligatured"?  I'm curious if you can explain what you mean. I know what "ligature" means.  I suspect you don't.

If I have evidence to show that the Christian bible is untrue, and I can since there is no evidence for any of the unique events claimed in it, I have indeed shown that there is a reason to disbelieve any claim by it and those who claim to follow its god.  If you wish to claim that your god is something different so you don't have to deal with the problems of the bible, that's no suprise.  Most theists want to invent their own god so they can be sure it agrees with them. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2010, 12:36:23 PM »
Show me a verse from the bible where Jesus himself claims to be God.  Not "Son Of God" or "Messiah" ... God.  Not once does Jesus make the claim for himself. 
The question posed regarded whether Jesus claimed to be divine. Jesus made many claims about His divinity.

Jesus actually didn't make any claims. There's no book in the Bible written by Jesus.  It's all books about Jesus, and what he apparently stated to people who were there but in actuality wasn't.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2010, 12:42:40 PM »
Jesus is real, because people claim he was real, and wrote books about their claims.

The Easter Bunny must be real, too then by this logic. I mean, doesn't the Easter bunny originate with Eostre, which in its mythology had a deity that was half or a whole rabbit? People believed this being existed, so, by your logic since people believed it, they wrote stories on it ('cause how else would we know about such an entity) it must be true.

Do you see how stupid what you said is? I doubt it.

Quote
It is too extraordinary for me to think that their claims are entirely invalid.

Do you say the same thing for everything else? You must live in such a wonderful world where extraordinary is absolute truth!

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Petey

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Darwins +11/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2010, 12:55:47 PM »
Just one question for me.

When he said "Nobody fucks with the Jesus", did he mean that in a sexual or non-sexual manner?
He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
-– Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time

Offline Tealeaf

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2010, 01:00:31 PM »
I have a question. Christians maintain the belief that Jesus' life, death, and resurrection was the key to God's forgiveness of human sin and salvation. Why, exactly, did these events have to occur in order for God to forgive humans of anything? What is the relevance of:
a) the life, death, and resurrection of a divine entity manifested in the flesh (Jesus), to

b) A God's his attitude towards human sin.

'Cause honestly, I see absolutely no causal relevance of a) to b). If God wanted to forgive humans, why didn't he just do it, why were the events described in a) a prerequisite to forgiveness?

Fool replies to everything except this post. Funny that. It's the number one smoking hole in his little fantasy. It makes no sense.

What a cowardly fool.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6856
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2010, 03:43:49 PM »
Just one question for me.

When he said "Nobody fucks with the Jesus", did he mean that in a sexual or non-sexual manner?

This is a tie-in to my rectum question.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Agga

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
  • Darwins +27/-42
  • The Forum is made of its members.
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2010, 03:56:27 PM »
Please ask, I love Jesus and I love talking about Him.

Why was Jesus such a cunt?
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline Barracuda

Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2010, 04:05:00 PM »
Fool, since you asked us to ask you questions, I find it strange that you have ignored mine.

Here it is again if you missed it:

I have a question. Christians maintain the belief that Jesus' life, death, and resurrection was the key to God's forgiveness of human sin and salvation. Why, exactly, did these events have to occur in order for God to forgive humans of anything? What is the relevance of:
a) the life, death, and resurrection of a divine entity manifested in the flesh (Jesus), to

b) A God's his attitude towards human sin.

'Cause honestly, I see absolutely no causal relevance of a) to b). If God wanted to forgive humans, why didn't he just do it, why were the events described in a) a prerequisite to forgiveness?

Offline bgb

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
  • Darwins +8/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • That felt great.
    • BGBART SHIRTS AND GIFTS
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #75 on: March 15, 2010, 04:25:23 PM »
Me thinks the fool has run off with its tail between its ????
The whole point of science is that most of it is uncertain. That's why science is exciting--because we don't know. Science is all about things we don't understand. The public, of course, imagines science is just a set of facts. But it's not.  Freeman Dyson

Offline Agga

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
  • Darwins +27/-42
  • The Forum is made of its members.
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2010, 04:27:21 PM »
^^ No he's probably just busy on IGI telling people that homosexuals should be put to death.
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline onlyonus

Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2010, 04:36:43 PM »
What did Jesus tell Thomas, that would have upset the deciples so much?
Yes, this is an agnostic question.
Say what you think
But, think of what you're saying

Offline Tealeaf

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2010, 04:43:29 PM »
Yes he's run off. But not forever. That's what's so annoying with these types; quite terrifying too. They are complete cowards. And they don't have a shred of integrity or honesty in them.

He's just been spoonfed with exactly what he asked for. At first he "answered" a specifically cherry-picked list of questions. By "answered" I mean addressed vaguely and unsatisfactory, or completely ignored in a haze of useless babble completely irrelevant to the question.

As I was reading through the responses to the OP, I came across the one I quoted a few posts above. I knew, in my heart(!), that Fool would not touch this; or if he did it'd be a long off topic rant filled with emotional make-believe. Surprise surprise, I was right.

That post embodies exactly what I have been railing on at for years. Jesus and the whole point of Christianity MAKES NO SENSE. It is NONsense. A god making up ways to kill himself to satisfy himself so he can forgive his own creations by his own standards....

That point alone utterly destroys Christianity. And it's the very thing every slimy, dishonest, weaseling, foolish, coward who tries to defend this shit absolutely refuses to address. The whole Christian religion is the biggest display of immorality I've ever seen. You can't believe it without being a liar, a coward, or just plain ignorant.

Why do you think Fool chose the name he did?

My theory is he got really fucked up on Christohol and decided that he'd been a fool all his life for not seeing the so obvious truth of the 2,000 year old zombie carpenter man-god hybrid.

Or he's just a really annoying troll.

Offline IAmFirst

Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2010, 04:45:51 PM »
Here's a question, Fool:

The conception of Mary was Immaculate, as noted in the Catholic Dogma. This proves that your god could wipe away original sin. Why send a human son to suffer one of the bloodiest and most immoral executions to forgive this sin when he's already wiped it away once?
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

-- Shin :D

Offline onlyonus

Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2010, 05:00:55 PM »
Does all this mean that I won't get an answer?
Say what you think
But, think of what you're saying

Offline Fool

  • Emergency Room
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2010, 06:46:30 PM »
17 hours ago I left this thread to go to sleep, which by God's wisdom humbles me daily with its requirements. I have since eaten, gone to class, inspected a home that my wife and I might be purchasing, gone through the market district to make a grocery trip, and gone to the library to check out a book. Shortly I will be studying for my classes for the rest of the week.

I don't understand why some of you think that I am cowardly for not having the resources to attend to this thread twenty four hours a day, but I will do my best to answer the questions with time. You should probably also be aware that I have over twenty thousand posts on this site before the new forums took effect, and am approaching ten thousand posts on another atheist website. So, though I am a proud sinner who needs God's grace constantly to be a civil person, I'm not emotionally thin skinned or ignorant of your arguments.

So, give me the same grace you give yourselves, I'll reply as I am able.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7270
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #82 on: March 15, 2010, 07:15:28 PM »
17 hours ago I left this thread to go to sleep, which by God's wisdom humbles me daily with its requirements. I have since eaten, gone to class, inspected a home that my wife and I might be purchasing, gone through the market district to make a grocery trip, and gone to the library to check out a book. Shortly I will be studying for my classes for the rest of the week.

I don't understand why some of you think that I am cowardly for not having the resources to attend to this thread twenty four hours a day, but I will do my best to answer the questions with time. You should probably also be aware that I have over twenty thousand posts on this site before the new forums took effect, and am approaching ten thousand posts on another atheist website. So, though I am a proud sinner who needs God's grace constantly to be a civil person, I'm not emotionally thin skinned or ignorant of your arguments.

So, give me the same grace you give yourselves, I'll reply as I am able.

Well, you picked an awesome forum name!

Offline Agga

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4290
  • Darwins +27/-42
  • The Forum is made of its members.
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #83 on: March 15, 2010, 07:20:55 PM »
So, give me the same grace you give yourselves, I'll reply as I am able.

Ok.

When you get around to answering them I have another question;


Did Jesus say that homosexuals should be put to death?
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline Ambassador Pony

  • You keep what you kill.
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 6856
  • Darwins +71/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • illuminatus
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #84 on: March 15, 2010, 08:42:12 PM »
Don't forget about jesus' rectum!
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #85 on: March 15, 2010, 09:12:29 PM »
Don't forget about jesus' rectum!

I doubt he could if he tried.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2934
  • Darwins +237/-1
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: If you have a question about Jesus
« Reply #86 on: March 15, 2010, 10:33:47 PM »
Let's start with the Gospel of Mark.  The text itself does not indicate that it was written by Mark; in fact, it was not attributed to Mark until sometime in the 2nd century.

Why does a different author necessarily make the text untrue? As you say, there is no author claimed. If it was written by 2 other people, or 30 other people, what's the problem?

Well, if the author or authors are unknown, the claim of the Gospels being eye-witness accounts becomes even more dubious.

Quote from: Astreja
There are also suggestions in the texts that the stories were written after the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE.

Quote from: Fool
Such as?

Quote
"Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." (Mark 13:2)

This is presented as a "prophesy" but it strongly suggests that Mark (or at least that section of Mark) was written after the Temple had already been destroyed.  A similar controversy exists regarding the dating of the book of Daniel, with some scholars claiming that the prophesies therein were composed after the events they supposedly predict.
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles