Glen Beck is an Idiot...

[Agamemnon]

Quote from jedweber's Huff Post article:

It takes a truly brave man to aim high and take on a defenseless working class family whose entire world was just destroyed over a $75 fee. What kind of a man hectors and pillories an average, innocent American family during their darkest hour and in front of 10 million radio listeners, all for the sake of ratings, personal profit and a few super-cheap laughs? Not a serious man. Not a "man" at all, in fact. Certainly not a man of integrity or honor -- or a man of God, as he so regularly claims to be. Really courageous, this Glenn Beck guy. What a hero.

Amen to that, brother.

[pingnak]

And WTF with this 'fee'? 

First off, isn't this supposed to be rolled into your property taxes?  And second off, when did the fire department become ENFORCEMENT for this kind of billing and collection? 

If you lived in a condominium in that county, and your neighbor didn't pay this fee, I assume they'd let the whole complex burn down.

[Agamemnon]

Yeah. It's pretty sad when our first responders become so mired in bureaucratic red tape that they can't be bothered to do their jobs.

[pingnak]

Fire response is life and death.  I didn't realize it was A-OK for the city/county to KILL YOU over a delinquent bill. 

Or in this case, murder your pets with fire.

[Agamemnon]

This looks like a case of malicious compliance.

[xphobe]

Not excusing the fire chief's attitude, but apparently there is some background that HuffPost chose to leave out, in order to make for a more compelling story.

First, the homeowner had an almost identical situation 3 years ago, where he was deliquent in his payment, and that time the fire dept did put out the fire and made him pay up.  Isn't there some idiom about "burned twice"?

Second, this fire started as a trash fire, then a grass fire.  The family had time to spray the lawn with garden hoses, why didn't they have time to rescue their pets and valuables?

Again, I'm not saying the FD was right just to stand and watch, but as usual there's more to this story than we are told by the incompetent mass media.

[Agamemnon]

I have no doubt there is more to the story. The question is, is there enough to compensate for the lack of action on the part of the FD and justify their behavior. At this point, I think not.

[pingnak]

As a juror on the lawsuit of such an incident, 'enough' would have extra zeroes on the check beyond the price of replacing the home.

Yes, there are people who don't pay their property taxes for years, even decades.  In the CIVILIZED world, that becomes a lean against the house.  Something that must be settled if the house is ever to be sold.

When there is an EMERGENCY, you shouldn't have the damned fire department or police or ambulance doing a credit check before responding.  That's pure evil, and it endangers others.  They delayed responding AT ALL until a neighboring property was ON FIRE.  THEN they decided to come out and have a look.

Why would the pets be locked in the house?  Because they'd run off and probably be lost/killed anyway.  Why didn't the homeowners go collect the pets when the fire department arrived?  Because they would be physically restrained from going back to their house from the point the fire engine appeared.

[Ashe]

Uh, not too sure, but when he gets to the part about shaking the candy in the jar and "How long will it take to get the pattern back?...Never," I find it hard to believe that you'd never get the pattern back, given enough time. If monkeys pounding on a keyboard can get you a work of Shakespeare, seems to me you could get your candy pattern back if you shake long enough. Can anyone confirm?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UEHISFxK9M[/youtube]

[screwtape]

Not excusing the fire chief's attitude, but apparently there is some background that HuffPost chose to leave out, in order to make for a more compelling story.

First, the homeowner had an almost identical situation 3 years ago, where he was deliquent in his payment, and that time the fire dept did put out the fire and made him pay up.  Isn't there some idiom about "burned twice"?

Second, this fire started as a trash fire, then a grass fire.  The family had time to spray the lawn with garden hoses, why didn't they have time to rescue their pets and valuables?

Again, I'm not saying the FD was right just to stand and watch, but as usual there's more to this story than we are told by the incompetent mass media.

Americablog has some interesting perspectives on it

[Azdgari]

Uh, not too sure, but when he gets to the part about shaking the candy in the jar and "How long will it take to get the pattern back?...Never," I find it hard to believe that you'd never get the pattern back, given enough time. If monkeys pounding on a keyboard can get you a work of Shakespeare, seems to me you could get your candy pattern back if you shake long enough. Can anyone confirm?

The candy would likely break or change phase before then, given enough shaking.  Just like the monkeys would likely die before finishing a Shakespearean play.

[jetson]

Uh, not too sure, but when he gets to the part about shaking the candy in the jar and "How long will it take to get the pattern back?...Never," I find it hard to believe that you'd never get the pattern back, given enough time. If monkeys pounding on a keyboard can get you a work of Shakespeare, seems to me you could get your candy pattern back if you shake long enough. Can anyone confirm?

It is without a doubt a possibility, albeit a highly unlikely one.

[pingnak]

As for the monkeys, who's going to sift through the infinite mountain of monkey cadavers, monkey poo, etc., mixed with broken typewriters to find it? 

Beck is over-simplifying humans and human politics into inanimate candy in a jar.  Humans tend to fall into the same general pattern that they're used to.  Of course, if you have the fundies 'shaking the jar' of the republic and pouring it into a theocratic police state for a few generations, yeah, it would be pretty hard to go back to a liberal society.  Probably another thousand year dark age.

[monkeymind]

I remember reading an article in SciAm in the early 80's about Chaos Theory. Using a digital image of Francis Bacon in a computer program, they stretched the image diagonally, 'pulling off' pieces of the corners and 'pressing' them back in somewhere else. They wanted to see how long it would take to get the image back. Surprisingly in only 278 cycles (if memory serves me well) Francis Bacon clearly shows up. Not exactly as the original, but clearly the same digital image of a painting of Francis Bacon.

So yeah, I think the monkey in a jar thing is possible.

[jedweber]

If you manage to survive the coming apocalypse, and find yourself scrabbling for buried cans of peas in the radioactive debris of a Walmart, know that somewhere Glenn Beck fans will be laughing at you as they enjoy gourmet freeze-dried lasagna and chicken a la king from their Beck-approved emergency food kits!

Glenn Beck Hawking Survivalist Disaster Kits
...
You may have heard about Beck's relationship with Goldline International, which urges people to buy gold and stay safe from the supposed inevitable devaluing of the dollar. Now meet Food Insurance, which sells survival kits of freeze-dried food and other items to help people live from two weeks to 12 months, depending on the plan purchased (and post-apocalyptic conditions). Beck has promoted the company's products, is featured prominently on the company's website, and a banner ad for the company, bearing Beck's image, was spotted on his website Monday.
...
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/glenn_beck_hawking_companys_survivalist_disaster_k.php?ref=fpblg

http://www.foodinsurance.com/

"While your neighbors are struggling to find food, you will be dining on lasagna, beef stroganoff, and a variety of other delicious entrees. What's more, this food will retain its nutritional value and freshness for up to ten years."

[velkyn]

ah one more Christian who has no "faith" that their God will come through as it claims and "provide". 

[screwtape]

He must have ubelievable contempt for his audience to even try to sell them crap like this.  He utterly hates them and in return, they send him their love, loyalty and money.

[Azdgari]

...  He utterly hates them ...

Really, can we blame him for this, all things considered?

[screwtape]

yes an no.  Yes, they are idiots and I totally understand and encourage contempt for idiots.  But no, because they are idiots in part because of him and the nonsense he has told them. 

And I am not sure what the proper, ethical way is to treat people for whom you have contempt.  I think it is to leave them alone and try to get along as best you can.  But making gobs of money off them is pretty tempting.  I've long considered starting a church for the money, but mainly for the chicks.  Since I have been married and the chicks are off the table, I feel less motivated.

[Dante]

Then start one for the money, and leave the chicks for me!

[Historicity]

Of course, if you have the fundies 'shaking the jar' of the republic and pouring it into a theocratic police state for a few generations, yeah, it would be pretty hard to go back to a liberal society.  Probably another thousand year dark age.

See "If This Goes On --" by Robert Heinlein.  Around 2000, a televangelist, the First Prophet Nehemiah Scudder, becomes president and repeals the Constitution declaring that Franklin and Jefferson were satanic.  Washington, too, so the capital was renamed the New Jerusalem.  He did this not only by populist preaching but by raising his own militias which despite their absence of white hoods and terms like "kleagle" were really the old Underground Empire, a revivified KKK.  Only by 2100 was there a counterrevolution.

Heinlein wrote this in 1940 when TV had barely started.  So he predicted the televangelists and their flocks of sheeple.  But he predicted a new science of semiotics to weigh the propaganda impact of each word and phrase to weaponize that old time religion with science.   That's what people like Frank Luntz (he of the "death tax") do for the Republican party.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_in_2100

[velkyn]

^^^^^^^yeeesh. Now I'm even more frightened.

[Historicity]

Hey, Velkyn, here's another creepy thing about that story.  While I was a Heinlein fan from childhood, I didn't read Revolt in 2100 till 1988.  The opening scene is a commotion that happened when a church secretary found out what is one of her expected duties to the current Great Prophet and he rapes her when she says no.

So remember that Jim Bakker assaulted Jessica Hahn in 1987.

Another prediction by Heinlein!

[Hatter23]

That's what people like Frank Luntz (he of the "death tax") do for the Republican party.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolt_in_2100

Ohh thats one a particular burning point with me. That so many STILL believe that the inheritence tax, which was made by the founding fathers as not only a way of revenue but a way of trying to stop an Aristocracy from developing, was somehow "Unamerican," when the very concept of it is as American as the Declaration of Independence, (I.e. No Lords, no Kings) sends me into a frothing rage. And that this was done by calling it a "death tax" was all it took, just illustrates how incredibly dumb the bulk of conservatives are. How are you "punishing success" when said tax isn't actually ON YOU??????? Grrrrrr!!!!!!! ANd it effectively only began after you estate was in excess of One Million. What percentage of Americans have over a million in assets AFTER the funeral and Doctors are paid?

[Dante]

What percentage of Americans have over a million in assets AFTER the funeral and Doctors are paid?

Quite a few more than you would think, I'd bet. That doesn't necessarily mean their "millionaires" in the sense that they live lavish lifestyles either. A working man, making wise invesment choices, can fairly easily exceed $1M in assets in this day and age. Is the starting point still $1M?And why do you assume there will be bills for doctors and funerals? If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, there's not much need for either.

We get taxed when we make money, we get taxed when we spend money. We can even be taxed when we save money. And they also want their cut when we give it to our offspring?

I dont disagree with your reasoning for the purpose of the tax, but in middle class America, it seems like the gov't has it's hands too far in the people's wallet.

[jedweber]

Oh, god...the stupid just keeps coming...

Glenn Beck: Evolution Is 'Ridiculous -- I Haven't Seen A Half-Monkey, Half-Person Yet'
October 20, 2010
Have you ever seen a half-monkey, half-person? No? Well neither has Glenn Beck, which is how he knows evolution doesn't exist.

On his radio show today, Beck wondered how many people in the country believe in evolution, and said he doesn't: "I don't think we came from monkeys. I think that's ridiculous. I haven't seen a half-monkey, half-person yet."

"If I get to the other side and God's like, 'You know what, yep, you were a monkey once,' I'll be shocked, but I'll be cool with it," he said.

"They have to make you care," Beck continued. "They have to force it down your throat. When anybody has to force it -- it's a problem. You didn't have to force that the world was round. Truth is truth."
...
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/glenn-beck-evolution-is-ridiculous----i-havent-seen-a-half-monkey-half-person-yet.php?ref=tn

[SherB]

I actually doubt that BecKKK even really believes that---Mormons believe a lot of weird shit, but as far as I know, and I've known a lot of Mormons, they quite value education and don't believe that silly creation shit to be literally true. My bet is that BecKKK's contempt for his sheeple is such that he's now getting crazier and crazier with what he says and does. There are so many completely batshit crazy people out there right now that those like him who make their living on their batshit craziness have to dig deeper and deeper to compete.

It's gotten so out of hand with these idiot teabaggers running for government office that it's become pretty entertaining. It's sad and frightening for what it means for the country, of course, but since I can't do anything about that I try to just let it go. (Otherwise I'm batshit myself.) But I find myself turning to the political news on the web with  a desire to see just what stupidity has come out of O'Donnell's mouth today. Or Joe Miller's. Or Scary Sarah, etc.

I used to do a lot of hand-wringing at what was going to become of the country when those asshats got into power. Then I realized, just a couple of days ago, that they're completely bought and paid for by Halliburton, Monsanto, and the like just like the smart politicians. So no matter how ridiculous their beliefs are, at least adults, albeit evil, greedy ones, will still be making the decisions.

The bad thing, IMO, is that their corporate masters will give them a lot of leeway to get their theocratic agenda in place, since it doesn't affect the corporations much to have theocrats or those who call themselves democrats in charge, so long as they've been wholly purchased. And I really, really don't want to live in a theocracy, or at least not in more of one than we already are.

[jedweber]

I used to do a lot of hand-wringing at what was going to become of the country when those asshats got into power. Then I realized, just a couple of days ago, that they're completely bought and paid for by Halliburton, Monsanto, and the like just like the smart politicians. So no matter how ridiculous their beliefs are, at least adults, albeit evil, greedy ones, will still be making the decisions.

To me, this makes it much, much worse. Maybe a little populist Tea Party rage was good to a point, when it was directed at deserving targets such as Wall Street, mortgage lenders, insurance companies, corporate lobbyists, corrupt politicians, etc. (That was there at the start.) Now it's all being channeled safely away from the corporate/financial interests and the wealthy elites, and re-directed exclusively at liberal Democrats, labor unions, teachers, immigrants, minorities, gays, etc.  Whatever feeble attempts at reform were underway (pathetic as they were), on financial regulation, health care, consumer credit, clean energy, etc., are about to be stopped dead in their tracks and reversed.

These Tea Party minions are about to serve as the foot soldiers in a war on their own economic standing, ushering in policies that are going to dramatically worsen income disparity in this country, transfer wealth to a small minority, and crush the middle class. The massive tax cuts they're about to deliver to the wealthiest Americans can ultimately can only be paid for by dismantling the very entitlement programs most of them rely on (SS and Medicare), along with destroying what remains of our social safety net. I fear for this country, I think it's going to get ugly.

MEMO: Health Insurance, Banking, Oil Industries Met With Koch, Chamber, Glenn Beck To Plot 2010 Election
http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/20/beck-koch-chamber-meeting/

[Nick]

Mormons are encouraged to stock up on survival stuff like what Beck is pushing.  This is just another way Beck is moving those on the right closer to accepting Mormon ideas.  Next he will be pushing underwear that makes you feel good "magic" and sending your children out on missions.