Author Topic: Artificial Intelligence  (Read 2930 times)

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Offline singlecrochet

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Artificial Intelligence
« on: September 11, 2008, 10:58:13 AM »
I apologize if this topic has already been brought up, but I haven't seen it.  (I haven't by any means read the whole forum content.)

So, here it is.  What do folks think about the possibility of artificial intelligence?  For example, a robot or computer, developing a "personality" or making its own decisions without input from a human.  (As in Isaac Asimov stories.)

I think the whole idea is fascinating.  As I mentioned in my introduction I do believe there is some kind of spiritual aspect to us that at this point in time has not been scientifically described or identified.  I believe there are some scientists who are attempting to get some more information on this theory.  Now, if anyone feels I'm delusional in this belief, that's perfectly fine.  No offense taken.

But, I think the whole idea of a human-made computer or robot developing a personality and the ability to think for itself is not necessarily out of this world.  And, if it did (or has) happen(ed) what could that possibly suggest?  Using my own "spirituality" theory I believe it could suggest that the "soul" can occupy things other than organic/biological beings.

I'll leave it there and see if this opens up a discussion which I sincerely hope it does.  I would love to see what others have to say on this topic.

Relevant:  Two of my favorite movies are Bicentennial Man and I-Robot.  If you haven't seen them, I recommend them as they suggest something along the lines of what I'm suggesting and aside from that they are just well-done, entertaining movies.
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Offline JTW

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 11:12:08 AM »
I fear transhumanism more than anything.

EDIT: AI: Artificial Intelligence and 2001: A Space Odyssey are the best AI films.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 01:21:12 PM by JTW »

anna

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 01:07:31 PM »
The idea of artificial intelligence is just that: artificial intelligence.

Not artificial spirituality, or formation of a soul, just intelligence.

I know there are programmers delveloping programs, that learn from other programs, and this is the first step towards artificial intelligence.....so in this sense i believe artificial intelligence is not only possible but has much potential for immense growth. But this is a far cry from a personality--which i would regard as a stretch. 

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 01:13:16 PM »
Good points, indeed.

However, keep in mind, many, many things that we take for granted now were considered far from possible centuries ago.

Just keep an open mind.

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline ;)

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 01:13:54 PM »
Quantum computers are candidates for AI i think.
I was watching a video by Michio Kaku, and he was saying that instead of using traditional computers, new quantum computers are being created which process by using quantum mechanical properties.
I have absolutely NO idea on the Physics behind it, it's way too complex :D

But the sum of 3x5 = 15 was performed on just SEVEN atoms.
So imagine what could be done with millions of atoms ;)

Kaku said that if they can get it right, future quantum computers may be able to operate and process quicker than human thought D:
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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 01:22:26 PM »
Wow!  That's amazing. 
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline ;)

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 01:32:46 PM »
[youtube]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PW8rgKLPHMg[/youtube]

Here, watch that! :)
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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 01:34:58 PM »
The idea of artificial intelligence is just that: artificial intelligence.

Not artificial spirituality, or formation of a soul, just intelligence.

I know there are programmers delveloping programs, that learn from other programs, and this is the first step towards artificial intelligence.....so in this sense i believe artificial intelligence is not only possible but has much potential for immense growth. But this is a far cry from a personality--which i would regard as a stretch. 

Just for clarification, I was not referring to artificial spirituality.  In fact, I've never even thought of that term.  When I refer to the soul, I mean the same thing whether it inhabits a human, a cat or........a robot.
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 01:43:55 PM »
Dan,

Awesome video.  Thanks!  Of course, not being a physicist much of it was over my head.

Well, a retarded cockroach is a start!   :D
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

anna

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 01:44:08 PM »
Just for clarification, I was not referring to artificial spirituality.  In fact, I've never even thought of that term.  When I refer to the soul, I mean the same thing whether it inhabits a human, a cat or........a robot.

Gotcha'.

Well for clarification purposes would you mind differentiating between a spirit and a soul?

Many people that believe in the existence of a soul do not people that a cat possesses one.


Offline ;)

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 01:47:21 PM »
Dan,

Awesome video.  Thanks!  Of course, not being a physicist much of it was over my head.

Well, a retarded cockroach is a start!   :D

You're welcome :)
Well i'm doing Physics at A-level, and i read alot of books on it ... and that all goes over my head too haha

Retarded cockroach though, we're going somewhere eh :D
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Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 02:11:41 PM »
Just for clarification, I was not referring to artificial spirituality.  In fact, I've never even thought of that term.  When I refer to the soul, I mean the same thing whether it inhabits a human, a cat or........a robot.

Gotcha'.

Well for clarification purposes would you mind differentiating between a spirit and a soul?

Many people that believe in the existence of a soul do not people that a cat possesses one.



I think they are just two words for the same thing.  That's MY definition.  Someone else's or a dictionary may be different.

Yes, I am totally aware that many people do not think an animal can possess a soul/spirit.  That just baffles me.  But, I am an animal lover and so tend to be biased.
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

anna

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 02:16:26 PM »

Yes, I am totally aware that many people do not think an animal can possess a soul/spirit.  That just baffles me.  But, I am an animal lover and so tend to be biased.

Ok, let me rephrase it then.

What is your definition of a soul?

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 02:45:05 PM »
Hmmmm, well, that is tough, but here goes:

Soul/spirit:  Mostly undefinable.  That which makes us who we are (personality traits, memories of experiences), exists regardless of the body.  That part that is infinite.

It would probably help to know that I believe in reincarnation so in that respect it would be the part that "comes back".

The energy that is me and occupies the cells which currently make up the physical body I occupy.  (In a nutshell.)

I have no proof.  And whether someone believes this or not is completely irrelevant because at this point in time I see no reason why it would be detrimental to believe or not to believe.  It doesn't govern how I live my life.  If I happen to come around for another turn at this thing called "life", or if I've been here several times before it's got nothing to do with NOW.  (Same goes if I end up being non-existent when this body dies.)
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline Ananukia

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 08:21:06 PM »
Hmmmm, well, that is tough, but here goes:

Soul/spirit:  Mostly undefinable.  That which makes us who we are (personality traits, memories of experiences), exists regardless of the body.  That part that is infinite.

It would probably help to know that I believe in reincarnation so in that respect it would be the part that "comes back".

The energy that is me and occupies the cells which currently make up the physical body I occupy.  (In a nutshell.)

I have no proof.  And whether someone believes this or not is completely irrelevant because at this point in time I see no reason why it would be detrimental to believe or not to believe.  It doesn't govern how I live my life.  If I happen to come around for another turn at this thing called "life", or if I've been here several times before it's got nothing to do with NOW.  (Same goes if I end up being non-existent when this body dies.)

Alzheimer's disease kills souls :O!
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Offline WellManicuredMan

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 08:49:14 PM »
When androids become intelligent enough to equal humans in brainpower, cognitive function, sophistication, and, above all, personality, will they become upset when we tell them that although they are exactly like us except for their mechanical nature, they do not have a "soul?" Is that really fair? If I was a robot whose brain worked just like a human's, who had emotions and personality and sophistication, would I be upset when people suggest that I do not have some intangible spark of "life" even though I am equivalent to them in consciousness? I think I would be pretty upset. How would you like it if someone told you that you didn't have a soul and treated you like an inferior because of it?

Sentient creatures of equal cognitive abilities must have equal rights as one another, whether they be man, machine, alien, or heavily genetically-modified transhuman creature. That includes the right to say, if they believe that a soul exists, "I have a soul, just like you."

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 09:22:17 PM »
[

Alzheimer's disease kills souls :O!

Quite possibly!  Or, is it that the soul is transported, in part, to that "other side" before the body is gone?

Just a thought.  (Ironically, the person I speak of who "visited" me, (VERY BRIEFLY) had Alzheimer's.)
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 09:25:16 PM »
When androids become intelligent enough to equal humans in brainpower, cognitive function, sophistication, and, above all, personality, will they become upset when we tell them that although they are exactly like us except for their mechanical nature, they do not have a "soul?" Is that really fair? If I was a robot whose brain worked just like a human's, who had emotions and personality and sophistication, would I be upset when people suggest that I do not have some intangible spark of "life" even though I am equivalent to them in consciousness? I think I would be pretty upset. How would you like it if someone told you that you didn't have a soul and treated you like an inferior because of it?

Sentient creatures of equal cognitive abilities must have equal rights as one another, whether they be man, machine, alien, or heavily genetically-modified transhuman creature. That includes the right to say, if they believe that a soul exists, "I have a soul, just like you."

AGREED!  That's what I'm saying, if they have personality, isn't THAT, then, the soul?
I'm posing this as a theory of mine, remember, nothing I think MUST be true, but possible.
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline bahramthered

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 09:27:58 PM »
Personality isn't the line for rights, otherwise bets get them. No the line should be sentience.

I think it'll end up with a law basically saying sentient beings have equal rights, regardless if they're metal or man. Hopefully we'll dodge the Terminator, I robot, or Matrix style wars.


But here's one for you. Do think the machines might develop their own religion?



Also side note; Seems Terminator, The Sara Connor Chronicles is going religious. The new liquid metal terminator seems very biblical minded. This might take an intresting debate assuming they don't screw it up like last season's monologues.

Also if Star Gate Atlantis ever decides to explain why the human form replicators can't ascend it'll be intresting.

Offline singlecrochet

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2008, 09:56:07 AM »
Personality isn't the line for rights, otherwise bets get them. No the line should be sentience.



So, explain sentience, then.
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Thomas Paine

"P.S. I pray God sees to it that you get presents this year." - Deelvrd

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2008, 12:44:10 PM »
I wonder how Christians are going to cope with this.

The moment a mortal inferior-to-God human creates something that has capabilities above that of a human in all aspects, is the moment God will face-palm himself.
Or the moment Christians realise their God is a bit shit/fake

Offline WellManicuredMan

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2008, 03:21:40 PM »
Personality isn't the line for rights, otherwise bets get them. No the line should be sentience.



So, explain sentience, then.

I don't think you're asking for my opinion, but I just remembered the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Measure of a Man," in which Picard must defend Data in court by arguing that he is a sentient being instead of merely property. That was a good episode.

Offline bahramthered

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2008, 04:18:07 AM »
How I put bets instead of pets is beyond me. But I did it. I did rewrite that so maybe the "b" ended up there in the rewrite.

To rephrase personnality isn't a good enough line for equal rights. That episode about Data was an excellent example.

I'm going to skip any idea of definign sentince because it'll lead to a bizzare debate. Instead I ask all of you this; What would you require of a thing to give it equal rights to a person?

Personnely I'd ask (look at its response for) answers to these 4 questions:

Do you know you exist? Just reacting or doing something for yourself dosn't count (so behavior more than questioning)

Can you think? (which is a higher level than problem solving)

Can you create? (more than just modifying exisiting ideas)

Can you obey rules against your personnel intrests/desires?


But even under these rules I see a lot of problems with potnetial contradictions and these are as basic a possible.

*Also notice, people currently beleive that the question, "Is it funny" is some sort of deciding factor. How would we know a new or other world life form will even have a sense of humor?

Offline nihilanth

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2008, 12:11:46 PM »
Do you mean artificial intelligence or sentience.

All I know is that it would take an "Einstien" of a programmer to  make it happen.
You can't prove it either way so you have to make a choice.