Author Topic: "Wake up!"  (Read 6767 times)

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Offline RealityCheck

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"Wake up!"
« on: February 21, 2010, 01:39:52 AM »
Hello. My name is RealityCheck.

I'm not going to begin to try and list any arguments or points because:

A) Most people in here have probably heard it all, anyway. (Especially with thousands of posts - I saw someone post that had made 9999 posts!)

B) I've heard all of the responses to all of the arguments and I disagree with them (though, I can see how this whole thing can be so confusing for a lot of people).

C) Therefore, it would be a waste of time

But, I do have 1 question. Please tell me this.

If the purpose of this site is to make it so that "believers" wake up and smell the coffee and live their life to the fullest - what are you all doing in here, wasting time, some of you posting thousands of posts. I mean, seriously, "believers" don't need you. Get out of this forum, delete your account, go hang with friends and family because you believe this life is all that you have and so you better start living it right now!

Stop picking on grandma who clings to the Bible with every ounce of energy she has left - searching for every ounce of hope and help from the Lord God Almighty. Seriously. In your eyes, aren't there bigger fish to fry in this world?

Oh. and Please. One more question. Ok. two.

How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

Thank you. So, respectively, get outs the way!




Offline Aaron123

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 01:53:34 AM »
Oh boo hoo...  &)

Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

The first question, I don't know about, but as for the second...

http://www.atheistvolunteers.org/
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline RealityCheck

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 02:02:24 AM »
However, I don't think that many will disagree with the fact that there are a lot of good "believer" organizations. My question was how many (comparative - not a question of if there were any  ;D )

Offline kevyrat69

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 02:37:51 AM »
So when you compare the atheist groups to the theist groups of course you are going to have so many more theist groups out there helping for God and there souls and the atheists help people because they need help.

We want you to stop having some myth in your brain because it is right for humans to believe in themselves not some diety that has never been here.

Of course that's just me. ;)
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Offline Narrow Mullen

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 02:48:51 AM »
Quote
If the purpose of this site is to make it so that "believers" wake up and smell the coffee and live their life to the fullest - what are you all doing in here, wasting time, some of you posting thousands of posts. I mean, seriously, "believers" don't need you. Get out of this forum, delete your account, go hang with friends and family because you believe this life is all that you have and so you better start living it right now!
For many of us, this is a community. A place where we can share our worldviews, without the fear of being the target of discrimination. A place where we can relax, tell jokes, and just sit around with friends. It's not like we spend our entire lives here, we do have lives outside of the Internet. But this is our community. These are my friends, people I can turn to if I need help with a problem, or just want to vent about my problems to. Sure, I have friends outside of here, but this is a place where I can meet new friends, friends who share interests with me, friends who want to help me make this place a better world, free from biases and hatred created by religion. I would call these people my second family.

Quote
Stop picking on grandma who clings to the Bible with every ounce of energy she has left - searching for every ounce of hope and help from the Lord God Almighty. Seriously. In your eyes, aren't there bigger fish to fry in this world?
We only pick on the grandmas who want to take away peoples rights, based on religious beliefs.

Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?
I'm sure plenty do.

How many atheists send bibles to people who need food and water?

How many atheists condemn people to eternal pain and suffering?
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"

Offline Irish

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 02:49:55 AM »
what are you all doing in here, wasting time, some of you posting thousands of posts. I mean, seriously, "believers" don't need you. Get out of this forum, delete your account, go hang with friends and family because you believe this life is all that you have and so you better start living it right now!

Very well, that is your opinion.  Just be sure to post the same thing on every single Christian forum.  I mean, what's the purpose of having a forum where a bunch of Christians get together and talk about God all the time?  All Christians believe in (roughly) the exact same thing so why do they waste their time in forums, some posting thousands of posts, all dealing with God and Jesus.

Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

1.) What does it matter?  What should matter is whether or not help is there.  Not who does it.
2.) Is it a competition?  Are you really making this a competition to see who can get more "brownie points", the good caring Christians or those foolish atheists?  Do you really care more about your status of how many people Christians have helped rather than the people that need help?
3.) How many atheists are helping in Haiti? 2,698.  Not really, I just made that number up.  Do you know exactly how many Christians are helping in Haiti?  Stop being so transparent and conceited.

Quote
So, respectively, get outs the way!

F___ off.

*^Removed expletive^*
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 02:51:47 AM by Irish »
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Offline Aspie

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 03:02:49 AM »
If the purpose of this site is to make it so that "believers" wake up and smell the coffee and live their life to the fullest - what are you all doing in here, wasting time, some of you posting thousands of posts. I mean, seriously, "believers" don't need you. Get out of this forum, delete your account, go hang with friends and family because you believe this life is all that you have and so you better start living it right now!

1) If nobody stands up to believers trying to foist their doctrine on everybody else countries like the US will turn into theocracies.
2) This is a fine place to rant about religious nuts anonymously without the fear of being ostracized - especially if you're in a highly devout family or live in the Bible Belt. Hell, atheists can't even put up billboards in this country without having them vandalized or celebrate the Winter season publicly without being shouted down (although the annual "War on Christmas" gives me something to look forward to  ;D ).
3) What's wrong with having fun on a forum? A lot of theist posts this site receives are comedy gold. We get it all - threats of eternal damnation, "complexity, therefore God!", "the Bible says...therefore the Bible is true!", "All atheists secretly hate God!", etc.

Quote
Stop picking on grandma who clings to the Bible with every ounce of energy she has left - searching for every ounce of hope and help from the Lord God Almighty.

Wow, this is the most compelling argument I've seen yet. Okay guys, time to shut this site down - we've got the elderly to think of here! What's living your lives by the teachings of ancient mythology compared to your grandmother having to come to terms with reality?

Quote
Seriously. In your eyes, aren't there bigger fish to fry in this world?

Yes, you can just smell the burning of flesh from your computer screen from a website that expresses an opinion different to your own.

Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

Quote
How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

I love how Christians turn charity into competition - it shows what's really important. :D

Offline Blaze

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 03:38:37 AM »
I do think that the donations from religious groups are more than those of atheist ones, but that is because, there are a lot less atheists then Christians. Atheists are still a minority.

And again, does it matter if theists donate more? I think the atheist donations are much better and atheists have a lot more moral sense because, when Christians donate, they atleast subconsciously expect something in return, be it a gift from God or a better life or a ticket to heaven. But when atheists help, they don't expect anything in return. They do it solely because it is an act of love. That makes them infinitely better people than Christians. And add it to the fact that when Christians help, they usually want the people they help to forcefully convert to Christianity. "I'll help you, but you should embrace the Lord in return".
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Offline Ada-B

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 08:11:19 AM »
For a second there, I thought this was a Buddhist thread, because that is what the Zen people always say "Wake up!"

What they mean, as opposed to the OP's rather odd point, is that we need to stop metaphorically dozing through life and start thinking about what we're actually doing. In fact, meditation is a tool that enables us to learn to be completely aware at all times, so we no longer ignore the suffering around us, or the hypocrisies in our own minds that see us and 'them' as completely different and separate. The people on the streets, and the people in Haiti are actually as important as we are (there is more to Zen than that, but I practice Tibetan Buddhism, so excuse my ignorance).

Whether you are religious or not, atheist rationalist, secular humanist or atheist Buddhist or Taoist, waking up is not about assuming some supreme deity is going to sort it all out, if we just stand around. It's about getting in there and getting our hands dirty. So in answer to the OP's question, whilst not explicitly atheist charities, many of the charities in Haiti at the moment, and helping homeless people in other places, are non-religious in character. Even charities like Oxfam (which has Quaker origins), the Red Cross/Red Crescent, Medicine san Frontiers, Save the Children etc, which have theist roots, have many, many atheists involved at high levels, and on the ground. I have worked for many years as a fundraising volunteer for Oxfam and I know that the majority of people I've worked with are atheists - including those who have worked as aid workers on the ground. Unicef, and DEC, of course, are non-religious, secular organisations, although religious people may work for them.

Atheists, you see, have no need to be exclusive: we work happily alongside theists and religious people of all hues. And some religious people are atheists - not just Buddhists or Taoists (for whom atheism is a respectable position. In fact the Buddha specifically said there was no Creator), but evidently quite a lot of your Christian clergy and theologians (for whom atheism is a dirty secret they dare not confess, or end up as one of those homeless people on the street).

I would bet there are atheists working in Haiti now, as part of Cafod or TEAR Fund or other overtly theistic charities. There's a lot of it about. Don't think it's rare just because people are too scared to come out and admit it to your face!

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Offline RealityCheck

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 08:24:41 AM »
So when you compare the atheist groups to the theist groups of course you are going to have so many more theist groups out there helping for God and there souls and the atheists help people because they need help.

Right. It is not a competition. However, my point was that there are "believer" organizations out there doing "good."

We want you to stop having some myth in your brain because it is right for humans to believe in themselves not some diety that has never been here.

Of course that's just me. ;)

LOL! Well, just remember.. that is your opinion. No eyes have seen no ears have heard everything that brought about this life. We haven't even seen the entire universe let alone what happened 2000 years ago or 2 million years ago... or infinite years ago? Crazy. The big bang is a myth in Atheists heads IMO. How can a seemingly infinite universe fit into a dot that is smaller than a period on this post "." ? I mean, seriously? And you have a problem with people who believe in an intelligent designer. wow.

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 08:32:25 AM »
Reality check, can you demonstrate the causal relationship between god belief and good acts? All I see is a speculative correlation, without any other variables being considered. I speculate that when all other variables are removed, the component theism would have an effect size equal to that of non-theism (essentially, nil).

If you know you're merely engaging in biased speculation with no actual statistically significant evidence to support your case, then I apologize for missing where you made that plain.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Positiveaob

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 09:12:15 AM »
Just got back from Haiti a few weeks ago, so I am one.  As far as my spending time on this website, that's none of your damned business.  I have a family and a career and hobbies outside of this.  I don't devote my life to this crap.  Atheists are doctors, lawyers, plumbers, carpenters, bankers, married, single, liberal, conservative.  The only thing we have in common is we are tired of the effect this large scale cult of belief in ancient mythology called Christianity is having on our lives.  We are tired of the wars it is responsible for, the holding back of science, and the fact we have to fight to keep this nonsense out of our kids' classrooms.

So unless you have an argument to make, I suggest you find another website.

Oh, and what Irish said.
If you desire peace of soul and happiness, then believe; if you would be a disciple of truth, then inquire. - Neitzsche

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Offline Positiveaob

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 09:18:58 AM »
By the way, I am curious how from a Christian perspective you justify contributing to Haitian relief.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically you believe that an invisible creator in the sky out of the blue decided to level a large urban area, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, then expects other creations of his to go help out those that are still clinging to life.  All while he could have just not caused the earthquake in the first place.  That really makes sense to you?
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Offline lectricpharaoh

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 09:27:16 AM »
By the way, I am curious how from a Christian perspective you justify contributing to Haitian relief.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but basically you believe that an invisible creator in the sky out of the blue decided to level a large urban area, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people, then expects other creations of his to go help out those that are still clinging to life.  All while he could have just not caused the earthquake in the first place.  That really makes sense to you?
Surely you're joking!  I mean, God only caused the earthquake to give the opportunity for the Haitian people to show grace in the face of suffering, and for others to show compassion by helping them.  He's trying to get them into Heaven!

It's an expression of his love, so stop knocking the Big Guy!
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Offline HAL

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 09:31:24 AM »
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

How many Christians got arrested on charges of child trafficking in Haiti?
Seriously, you guys are the meanest people I have ever met.  I hope you are happy and feel really good about yourself. 

Offline Ada-B

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2010, 10:22:44 AM »
As far as I can tell, from a rather unscientific survey of "Good stuff versus bad stuff" done by theists (particularly Christians) and atheists, its about even-stevens, with a slight pull towards the atheists as the better 'do-gooders'. My conclusion is that personal faith has little if anything to do with how a person behaves.

However, people who are 'good' people often feel a pull towards religion, maybe because they imagine that there will be more people like them in that religion. Nothing to do with personal faith, and everything to do with wanting to be a member of the club. The theist propaganda has it that atheists are generally disreputable types, so a lot of ignorant but good people will assume, as a default, that they cannot be an atheist. Even if, deep down inside, they are. But when such people open their minds a chink, and start being honest about their non-belief, they don't change personality. In fact, they often say they feel liberated to do what they believe is right, rather than constantly trying to square the circle with their religion.

Does believing in God make you a better person? The crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Islamist suicide bombers and pedophile priests suggest otherwise. Atheists have done bad stuff too, of course, but we're not claiming that lack of belief makes us a better person!


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Offline Gaston

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2010, 12:19:37 PM »
The big bang is a myth in Atheists heads IMO. How can a seemingly infinite universe fit into a dot that is smaller than a period on this post "." ? I mean, seriously? And you have a problem with people who believe in an intelligent designer. wow.

Awesome! :D Not sure if you're just making it up as you go along, or if you are for real. No matter though, this is pure gold!
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Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2010, 12:51:32 PM »
If the purpose of this site is to make it so that "believers" wake up and smell the coffee and live their life to the fullest - what are you all doing in here, wasting time, some of you posting thousands of posts. I mean, seriously, "believers" don't need you. Get out of this forum, delete your account, go hang with friends and family because you believe this life is all that you have and so you better start living it right now!

The vast majority of my time spent on this site is while at work, so I'm essentially getting paid while being here!

And you picked "RealityCheck" as your nick? What an oxymoron.

The big bang is a myth in Atheists heads IMO. How can a seemingly infinite universe fit into a dot that is smaller than a period on this post "." ? I mean, seriously? And you have a problem with people who believe in an intelligent designer. wow.

Except there is scientific observation that has provided evidence that such a thing occurred, as opposed to zero, zilch, nada evidence for a creator.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 12:53:47 PM by subtleinspiration »
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Offline jazzman

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2010, 01:16:42 PM »
Hello. My name is RealityCheck.
Mormon alert!

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Offline shnozzola

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2010, 01:25:32 PM »
Reality Check,
   Be careful with your judgment of others.  A couple things –
             IMO, one of the things that led to this web site being important is when young muslim  men screamed “god is great” and flew airplanes into buildings to kill as many human beings as possible. 

   The internet has made it possible for atheists, scared of what religion is doing to this planet, to express our views without so called christians trying to spit on us at the least, and shoot us at the worst.  Can you understand why, if a christian is willing to kill to spread their views, that religion gets grouped with islam?   Yes, there are 30,000 forms of christianity and many are harmless and well meaning,  just like many atheists.  Many of the people here were theists and looked over the facts and realized, things don’t add up. 

    I sent money to Haiti.  I don't believe the devil caused the earthquake, as christian Pat Robertson does.
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Offline Agga

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2010, 01:32:47 PM »
Hello. My name is RealityCheck.
Hello.  Which church do you go to?  I'd like to come over there and tell you all what a bunch of wasters you are when you're in the middle of your church service.
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline DaBungalow

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2010, 02:09:41 PM »
Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

Quote
How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

Oh. RealityCheck. Don't be a massive cunt.

That's all I have to say on this one.


Offline RealityCheck

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2010, 02:41:10 PM »
Quote
How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?

Quote
How many atheists hang with the homeless and give them food and warm drinks and clothes when it is cold outside?

Oh. RealityCheck. Don't be a massive c**t.

That's all I have to say on this one.



What do some of you guys have about unintelligent cursing?

Offline subtleinspiration

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »
How is cursing, in and of itself, unintelligent?
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Offline Agga

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 02:44:23 PM »
What do some of you guys have about unintelligent cursing?
It's not a curse, in this context, it's a statement of fact.

Big difference.

Look, you've come into our area and are taking shots at us, what do you expect, a cup of coffee and a hug?

Note that we're not coming into your church and taking shots at you on a Sunday morning.
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline DaBungalow

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2010, 02:45:59 PM »
Quote
What do some of you guys have about unintelligent cursing?

Because I'm 15 years old, and have a fetus for a face. And I'm quite furious with your earlier comments, but that's obviously by the by.

EDIT: I've spent almost a year browsing through this forum, and am struggling to continue hiding behind the niceties and pretences. Every time an email arrives asking the atheist population to kindly kill itself, some laugh, some take offence, but the majority take time out to write an unnecessarily thoughtful response. It won't be read, it won't be considered; it'll be preached to the converted as it were.
So if someone implies that atheists are worse people that the religious, I won't bother looking for studies relevant to the subject matter, nor shall I ramble on about the relationship between religion and morals, and how they do not have to be connected. Instead, I'll take the easier but deeply satisfying route of telling said person to fuck off.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 03:00:36 PM by DaBungalow »

Offline Frank

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2010, 03:16:16 PM »


How many atheists are serving in Haiti right now?


I've no idea. But however many it is I'll bet none of them are stealing Haitian children. 
"Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions fall away, atheism is what is left behind".

Offline RealityCheck

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2010, 03:22:14 PM »

1) If nobody stands up to believers trying to foist their doctrine on everybody else countries like the US will turn into theocracies.



Sounds a bit paranoid to me!

2) This is a fine place to rant about religious nuts anonymously without the fear of being ostracized - especially if you're in a highly devout family or live in the Bible Belt. Hell, atheists can't even put up billboards in this country without having them vandalized or celebrate the Winter season publicly without being shouted down (although the annual "War on Christmas" gives me something to look forward to  ;D ).


If you can't beat 'em, join em! Why would that be bad again? What do you have to lose? Kidding, though. You are entitled to your own beliefs. It is your brain and no one can make you think differently than you want! That is your personal space.


3) What's wrong with having fun on a forum? A lot of theist posts this site receives are comedy gold. We get it all - threats of eternal damnation, "complexity, therefore God!", "the Bible says...therefore the Bible is true!", "All atheists secretly hate God!", etc.


Oh, I know it. I try to think out of the box. I know what you mean, though. Typically it is the same set of canned responses, though. But, the same thing comes for your side of things.

Like, the whole universe being contained in a "." before the big bang. I have references for science books that actually said that! I mean, seriously?

Yes, you can just smell the burning of flesh from your computer screen from a website that expresses an opinion different to your own.

Ok, ok. I agree. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. God did give free will after all:  :o .

I love how Christians turn charity into competition - it shows what's really important. :D

Wait wait wait - don't lose me here! I apologize for this one. The Bible doesn't even say that works should be something that should be boasted about - that wasn't something that I was trying to get across.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (New International Version)
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

(works meaning doing good things).

However, it has been my impression based upon the many conversations I have with atheists that religion is all bad and no good. Surely you don't believe that, do you? I mean, surely there is a difference (in your eyes) between the "religious" culture of the west and the "religious" culture of the middle east today or the culture thousands of years ago?

Please remember that the actions of people by no way change or alter the way in which we got to where we are now. It may distort perception, but it does not change reality. Let's assume there is a God for this point. (I am close to a math-minor so I know that science and math does this ALL the time - that is how they get theories!). Then, if a bunch of "Christians" (people who called themselves Christians) went out committed really bad acts of terrorism, it wouldn't change the fact that there was a God. Even though those particular people were hypocritical.

(You've got some nuts on your side, too!).


Offline RealityCheck

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Re: "Wake up!"
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2010, 03:25:18 PM »
How is cursing, in and of itself, unintelligent?

What does it accomplish?