Author Topic: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life  (Read 7334 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TownL7


Offline ;)

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 454
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • My name's Dan, ignore the crap username :)
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 12:30:26 PM »
That's incredible!
I'll be keeping an eye on this guys name :)
Our freedom's consuming itself.

Offline Cyberia

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
  • Darwins +35/-0
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 01:52:42 PM »
That's amazing, and it sounds a lot like this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6QYDdgP9eg[/youtube]
Soon we will judge angels.

Offline Mooby

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1179
  • Darwins +69/-24
  • So it goes.
    • Is God Imaginary?
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 04:48:40 PM »
Given the work with viruses in the last few years, I was wondering how long it would be until they got protocells up and running.

I'm hoping we can go from amino acid to bacteria within 10 years.
"I'm doing science and I'm still alive."--J.C.

Offline bahramthered

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3140
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 06:22:28 PM »
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

Offline WellManicuredMan

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 07:04:55 PM »
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?

I'm guessing the former.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 08:35:53 PM »
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?


Well considering these experiments actually require...an intelligent designer...I don't think you'll find much opposition from the creationists.

Offline Irish

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Darwins +18/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Moraxella catarrhalis on BA
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 08:52:46 PM »
I wonder what this will do to creationist?

Psyopathic rage or mental gymnastics to disclaim it?


Well considering these experiments actually require...an intelligent designer...I don't think you'll find much opposition from the creationists.

Yup, remember that while these are protocells created from inorganic materials they still had to have a scientist put them together.
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 09:01:17 PM »
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Irish

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Darwins +18/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Moraxella catarrhalis on BA
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 09:03:56 PM »
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

I'm sorry.  Yeah, I read the article.  I'm just saying that as of right now the cells were created. I read the part about them wanting to construct a cell with just enough genes to replicate and carry on all essential life functions. When that day comes.... wow!
La scienze non ha nemici ma gli ignoranti.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 09:18:35 PM »
Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

They're still creating the right conditions. Which is essentially what theistic evolutionists have been saying God did all along.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 09:38:13 PM »
More than that, JTW. They are discovering what the right conditions would be.  Perhaps you should not only actually read the article, but also actually read my post that you were replying to:

Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Cyberia

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
  • Darwins +35/-0
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 12:54:55 AM »
They're still creating the right conditions. Which is essentially what theistic evolutionists have been saying God did all along.
Yea, but the Creationists say it was poofed into existence and could NOT have happened on it's own.

Not that mere proof will persuade them though.
Soon we will judge angels.

Offline bahramthered

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3140
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 06:39:40 AM »
Once they discover the correct conditons and show the planet had these conditions, things get intresting.

BTW: YEC claim the world was poofed, and this may devestate them. Espically if the researchers try guiding these things evolution (simply removing the bad ones lke Natural selection on overdrive)

OEC will likely say that simply revealed god's mechanism, and he simply oversaw and guided evolution.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 08:11:47 AM »
More than that, JTW. They are discovering what the right conditions would be.  Perhaps you should not only actually read the article, but also actually read my post that you were replying to:

Actually, what the scientists are aiming for - if you read the article - is to merely be able to create the right conditions, and then allow life to form on its own.  If such a thing happened, and if those conditions can come about naturally, then you're entirely wrong.  They will have proven that no intelligent designer is needed.

Irrelevant. The planet existing with the right conditions in the first place is the creator creating.

Offline Hermes

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 9988
  • Darwins +2/-0
  • 1600 years of oppression ends; Zeus is worshiped.
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2008, 08:24:50 AM »
Related (one of the people mentioned in the article).

Quote
Craig Venter: On the verge of creating synthetic life
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/craig_venter_is_on_the_verge_of_creating_synthetic_life.html

About this talk

"Can we create new life out of our digital universe?" Craig Venter asks. His answer is "yes" -- and pretty soon. He walks through his latest research and promises that we’ll soon be able to build and boot up a synthetic chromosome.

About Craig Venter

In 2001, Craig Venter made headlines for sequencing the human genome. In 2003, he starting mapping the ocean's biodiversity. Now he's working to create the first synthetic lifeforms -- microorganisms that can produce alternative fuels. And he's very, very close.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2008, 09:28:42 AM »
Irrelevant. The planet existing with the right conditions in the first place is the creator creating.

I get what you're saying now.  Well, I suppose if you believe a planet's existence needs a creator, then this experiment - and abiogenesis in general - has no conflict with your beliefs.

Then again, why do you believe that planets need to be explicitly created by an intelligent designer, rather than accreted out of material left over from star formation?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2008, 09:34:42 AM »
From what star formation? Where'd that come from?

Extrapolate further and further if you wish but it all keeps coming back to an original creation.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2008, 09:50:23 AM »
If you're going to axiomatically define the entire universe as "created" then you cannot honestly pretend to be able to distinguish between things that are created and those that are not.  Either all things are created, or nothing is created, and in either case there is no way of telling them apart.

There may well be a first-cause type of intelligent being who caused the Big Bang.  Clearly something did.  I see no reason to project human qualities (such as intelligence) onto it, though.  That's just baseless speculation and mental masturbation.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2008, 10:08:31 AM »
But that's exactly the point. The title of the thread is "Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life"

They're creating the conditions that lead to life. Just like we're saying God did.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2008, 10:18:00 AM »
Can you be more specific, then - what is it, exactly, that you think God did?

Beliefs on that matter vary greatly.  Even in your own posts, you've expressed ideas ranging from God creating the universe, to God creating the sun, to God creating specific conditions on Earth.  Which is it?  Do you even know, or is this just an exercise where you try to fit your god into whatever gap he'll fit into?

I look forward to your clarifying, specific answer.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 10:21:37 AM by Azdgari »
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Mooby

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1179
  • Darwins +69/-24
  • So it goes.
    • Is God Imaginary?
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2008, 10:21:07 AM »
But that's exactly the point. The title of the thread is "Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life"

They're creating the conditions that lead to life. Just like we're saying God did.
Wonderful.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world will get key insights into how life as we know it got its start.
"I'm doing science and I'm still alive."--J.C.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2008, 10:33:40 AM »
Can you be more specific, then - what is it, exactly, that you think God did?

Beliefs on that matter vary greatly.  Even in your own posts, you've expressed ideas ranging from God creating the universe, to God creating the sun, to God creating specific conditions on Earth.  Which is it?  Do you even know, or is this just an exercise where you try to fit your god into whatever gap he'll fit into?

I look forward to your clarifying, specific answer.

It's a matter of creating everything from one event. All it takes is the mathematical boundaries or constants + matter. Everything else naturally comes out of that. God doesn't even really need to do anything after the initial "blast".

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2008, 11:29:46 AM »
Ahh, so he's just a first-cause god.  Alright.

It is then misleading to say that it created humans, just as it is misleading to say that your great-grandfather made a post on this forum.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2008, 12:02:02 PM »
Ahh, so he's just a first-cause god.  Alright.

It is then misleading to say that it created humans, just as it is misleading to say that your great-grandfather made a post on this forum.

What created humans then?

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2008, 12:30:38 PM »
I never claimed that humans were created.

Are you implying humans were explicitly created?  I thought you put the creation-point at the Big Bang?  There were, as far as I know, no humans in existence at that point.

Are you one of those people who believes the universe was created in more-or-less its present state at the Big Bang?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2008, 12:33:05 PM »
No, how did we get here?

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12223
  • Darwins +268/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2008, 02:04:15 PM »
I for one was born.

If you mean the species, I imagine we evolved from another species.  That's how new species are "created" today, after all.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline JTW

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1983
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2008, 02:20:01 PM »
So trace that back to the beginning. Everything comes in stages. Chronologically time is irrelevant from one eon to another. It is billions of years or a microsecond depending on your perspective.

If God sets this in motion from the very spark of beginning, He is responsible for the entire creation regardless whether He is hands off or not.