Author Topic: This might be insightful to you [#2264]  (Read 4011 times)

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Offline DL

This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« on: February 11, 2010, 06:40:03 AM »

Hi. Let me explain myself and what I'd like to point out. I am 18 years old, and have been raised in an extremely religious (Christian) family. My father is a preacher, my uncle an evanglist, my mom teaches Sunday school, ect. However, I no longer believe. I now relize that religion is nothing more than a delusion and that it is better to think rationally and admit it when we (as a species) do not understand something than say "God did it". I have felt this was for about a year and a half. Unfortunately, I think religion might have permanently affected my thinking. I still at times feel a powerful urge to pray, such as before sleeping and eating, and after doing something that I was taught not was sin. Christians are taught to "pray without ceasing". I grew up learning that I should always talk to God. The fear of hellfire continuously runs through my mind. I at times even feel the need to return to religion, but that's not logical. I believe religion is addictive, especially when taught to a child. I was raised to believe the bible without question. I feel guilt for rejecting these beliefs that were so deeply ingrained in me. I'm telling you this because I think it might give you a better understanding of how religion affects a person's mind.

Also, I have not revealed my atheism to my family, and have no plan of doing so in the near future. In the meantime, I still run the sound equipment at my church. My parents are now raising my brother (I have 2 other siblings, but that is not relevant), who they say is exactly like I was at his age (5) in the same manner I was raised. I feel terrible that I am expected to participate in what is frankly brainwashing. But, I am in a dificult situation, and if you mention this message in any video, I'd like to remain anonymous.

On your page, you have links to whywontgodhealaputees.com and godisimaginary.com. If you have any affiliation with these particular websites, I would like to thank you, because they helped me become aware of my delusion, along with countless youtube videos. Ironically, the videos posted by Christians probably had the most impact toward my conversion because I relized how flawed their arguments were.

Best wishes my fellow human being, as we go on our paths and try to understand the truth of this amazing universe.

Offline Banksie

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 07:32:09 AM »
I gave up smoking after 17 years last month and I still want a cigarette at set "trigger" points in the day. Your compulsion to pray is the same - it's just habit.  Don't worry about it.
PROOF that Moses was the first Solid Snake:
…Moses…saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. Exodus 2:11-12.

Offline Emily

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 12:09:36 PM »
Hi. Let me explain myself and what I'd like to point out. I am 18 years old, and have been raised in an extremely religious (Christian) family. My father is a preacher, my uncle an evanglist, my mom teaches Sunday school, ect. However, I no longer believe. I now relize that religion is nothing more than a delusion and that it is better to think rationally and admit it when we (as a species) do not understand something than say "God did it".

You and I have similar stories it's scary. My father is a pastor, as is my grandfather and my three sisters and mother are working as missionaries in Turkey. I was about 18 (now 30) when I began feeling that religion was pointless. When I gave up church I at times felt the urge to pray too. It's just a habit, especially if you are surrounded by religious people. I don't know if your family talks about the power of prayer but it's natural to continue having an urge to pray or whatever, especially after years of doing it. As you move on that urge will go away with no problem.

Join the forum. Here you can discuss your beliefs or lack of beliefs freely (well, as long as you don't back any forum rules  ;) ) You'll also learn a lot more about your current stance. I know I've learned alot from this forum.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2010, 12:30:44 PM »
@ OP -

Holy crap dude!  :o With that kind of background, it is freakin' AMAZING you manged to break away. I'd be inclined to think that the vast majority of people who are surrounded by THAT much indoctrination, never do.

You got alotta courage, youngblood. Props. And you seem like a good guy with a decent head on your shoulders.

Join the forum, if you've got the time on your hands.

Oh, and don't sweat the hellfire and guilt. It's totally natural, and a major part of what keeps people slaves to religion - it's a very sick and sadistic way for the clergy to make sure their customers don't drift away: Make 'em sick when they're not on your product. Like Banksie said, it's a habit and a previous addiction - It's alot like Heroin actually, only far more dangerous.

Religion's been a huge part of your life, it's only natural that you get a little withdrawel and even think about dosing up again for that "Old Timey Feel-Goodness" occasionally.

You've just gotta keep your head up, stay grounded in reality, and you'll be alright in time. It'll pass in 6 months, maybe a year, and you'll wonder how the hell you ever let it bother you. The good part is, once you've got your mind fully out of the "magic sphere", your "bullshit-detector" will be finely tuned for the rest of your life.

Good luck man, wherever the road takes you.  :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 12:43:00 PM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2010, 01:02:15 PM »
Join the forum!  Having a sence of 'community' is important.  It will help you to know that you are not alone in your break away from that which enslaves minds and hardens hearts. 

The impulses to pray will pass with time, you have been indoctrinated and old habits will be hard to break.  The guilt too will leave, just realize that there is no voyeristic sky-daddy spying on you 24-7.
Faith is nice but doubt will get you an education!
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Offline Nick

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 04:02:15 PM »
Delusion is a strong thing.  Religion also makes sure guilt is a big part of staying on the right path.  After you break away from it your whole world is so much more rational and bright.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Sister Chromatid

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 08:31:11 PM »
Regarding the guilt as to how your little brother is being raised...

You made it through, and he's just like you, right?   ;)

Plus he has something you didn't have-- a rational big brother!

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 10:15:20 PM »
Finally a thread where the OP delivers what is promised. It was insightful. Thank you very much, I appreciate the lack of all caps too! I hope you join the forum there are a lot of young people who have been through what you have been through a lot of older people that remember going through it, a wide range of ages really. Anyway, there are a lot of understanding ex-theists here.

You got guts too as someone else pointed out, this will serve you well as you get older and get to the inevitable point where you may have to tell others you don't believe. I don't recommend doing that anytime soon. But, you are young and it's almost inevitable you will find someone you want to partner with maybe have kids and then keeping a secret gets complicated. I'm just sayin in case you can't or don't come back, hope you do though.
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline MadBunny

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2010, 01:32:51 AM »
There is nothing wrong with working in a church.

I'm an atheist, but I fully understand that a lot of people need the kind of structure and community that churches tend to provide.  Everything you can get at a church can be found elsewhere, with a bit of effort, and a lot less baggage but most people won't make that little bit of effort.

As for your urges to occasionally pray, or worry about afterlife consequences don't let it bother you too much.  Almost everyone gets similar urges, the smoker comment earlier is a good example of similar cravings.  We're probably hardwired to anthropomorphize our surroundings, which is why for example everything seems so 'personal'.  Like when you're raking leaves, and get them all into a pile only to have the wind come up right at that moment and scatter them.  It feels personal, but it's anything but.

Best of luck.  My advice to you is to simply be honest with yourself, and others.  For years, when I was around my family and they asked me about religion I just told them that I thought it should be something personal, and not announced like a costume, or worn like a badge.  They (mis)understood that and accepted it.  Eventually they stopped bothering me to say grace, lead prayers or anything like that.  Overtime they came to accept that I meant something different than what they thought, but that it didn't matter by that point because they knew me as a person and that my feelings were always the same toward them.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline thatguy

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 04:56:16 PM »
Hey. I'm the guy that wrote the first post. I just really wanted to express that trying to make people think for themselves is not hopeless, like it sometimes seen. Several people are so warped by religion that they will never give it up, but I think most do have doubts. And I have told my friends, but really, at 18, I'm not concerned with getting married right now. And if I ever do tell my parents, it'll be after I've finished college. I need their money.
FORCING children to fear your imaginary terrors is child abuse.

Offline Emily

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 05:11:34 PM »
Welcome to the community, thatguy!  :)
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

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Offline thatguy

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 12:28:57 AM »
Thank you. :D
FORCING children to fear your imaginary terrors is child abuse.

Offline Astreja

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 01:35:20 AM »
And if I ever do tell my parents, it'll be after I've finished college. I need their money.

A very wise decision, in my opinion.  Welcome!
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 11:24:59 AM »
And if I ever do tell my parents, it'll be after I've finished college. I need their money.

good way to give them a swift kick in the nuts, make sure you study evolution.  :D
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline Sashka

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 03:48:55 PM »
Holy shit!
You're lucky to have gotten out of it at all!
THAT level of indoctrination is, by my book, borderline abuse...
Anyway...Glad you un-brainwashed yourself!
Join up!
 :)
Now I am naked with a towel over my lap typing on the computer.

Enough with your bullshit.

Offline Sashka

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
And if I ever do tell my parents, it'll be after I've finished college. I need their money.

I actually have a similar problem... So, we out ourselves after we've drained all their money(in my case, for med school)
Not bad!
 ;)
Now I am naked with a towel over my lap typing on the computer.

Enough with your bullshit.

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 07:08:13 PM »
Welcome to the forum thatguy.  If you ever need to vent or rant or want to hear the voices of reason, we're here for ya.
Faith is nice but doubt will get you an education!
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Offline thatguy

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2010, 12:10:45 AM »
And if I ever do tell my parents, it'll be after I've finished college. I need their money.

good way to give them a swift kick in the nuts, make sure you study evolution.  :D

Eh. I have studied evolution. On my own account (Arkansas science teachers, what can you do?). And the thought of what my mom's face will look like kills me, but I can't live according to unstable emotions and a bunch of millenia old dried out desert scribblings.
FORCING children to fear your imaginary terrors is child abuse.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2010, 10:00:06 AM »
I kind of know how you feel, thatguy, she did give birth to you. I told my mother that she was a selfish bitch for putting me in foster care when I was 9. she had plenty of opportunity to send me to live with my dad, instead, I was force fed 3 different religions in 7 years. lets just say my dad was not too happy with what had happened to me and my brother. luckily, neather one of us believed the nonsense, mostly because my father told me they were fairy tales. like most parents should.

 I never told her that till I was 43 years old.

it hurt me as much as it hurt her, but at least it was the truth.
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline Sister Chromatid

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2010, 02:00:11 PM »
I just re-read this article: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/3884 and I thought you'd find it inspirational. 

Offline thatguy

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 01:15:39 AM »
I read the article. It was interesting. The titbit about Dawkin's Scale is led me to find it. I think I'd be somewhere between a 5 and 6 on it, or between 6 and 7, depending on what mood I'm in, or if I think there's a good chance I might get killed.

I definately don't believe there is a god as depicted in the Bible, Torah, or Koran. If there was a god that wanted us to know he existed, I'd think he'd just appear, stop the world and be like "HEY EVERYBODY! It's me, God. Ummm.. the correct religion's Shinto, just givin' y'all a heads up."

Oh, by the way, last year some scientists synthesized a molecule in a lab that self-replicates and undergoes Darwinian evolution. There was an article on this in a magazine in my school's library. Thought it was cool.
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/3325/life-evolution-a-test-tube?page=3%2C0
FORCING children to fear your imaginary terrors is child abuse.

Offline Sister Chromatid

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 04:16:59 PM »
Thanks for the link-- awesome article. 

Offline Positiveaob

Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 04:21:00 PM »
Hey thatguy, welcome to the dark side! 

As far as your concerns about coming out, so to speak, and your urges to pray, dont worry about it.  If the church is that much a part of the culture and community you are a part of, then I dont think you are doing anything wrong by playing along and being a part of it.  But I guarantee you arent the only one in your family or amongst your friends who have these thoughts.  Just remember that you can you lead a good and moral life without a belief in an invisible big brother in the sky.  That's what you need to keep in mind as they continue to try to brainwash you.  There's nothing "evil" about atheism.

Anyways, I find this forum is a great way to howl at the moon when you get frustrated by religious fundamentalists.  Feel free to contribute here anonymously whenever you want.  Welcome aboard!
If you desire peace of soul and happiness, then believe; if you would be a disciple of truth, then inquire. - Neitzsche

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Offline kin hell

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2010, 05:58:03 AM »
greetings fellow earthling   
hold your head up high thatguy   
big-brain rationalising yourself to undeluded is impressive given the indoctrination central start

reading yours and others testimony of similar background gives me hope for humanity in general.


elsewhere

being in charge of the church audio calls for massive brainwashing revenge

subliminals throughout every meeting/mass/gathering deconstructing the fictions   

call it "free the masses".
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Sister Chromatid

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2010, 06:27:39 PM »
But don't you dare let these flyers find their way inside your church... http://www.normalbobsmith.com/free/flyers/

Offline thatguy

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2010, 11:15:35 PM »
[quote author=kin hell link=topic=12552.msg292648#msg292648 date=1268650683
being in charge of the church audio calls for massive brainwashing revenge

subliminals throughout every meeting/mass/gathering deconstructing the fictions   

call it "free the masses".
[/quote]

Hmmm.... Is that actually possible? You're making me want to try this.
FORCING children to fear your imaginary terrors is child abuse.

Offline kin hell

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2010, 12:53:15 AM »
^  just did a quick google about subliminals in audio

.......there seems to be a lot of specific software out there to do it (almost scam level market display), but I believe that an audio subliminal is whatever message you want recorded is done so at a frequency just higher than that which is heard recognised and "read" by the consciousness. I have no idea what that frequency is, but with a little research it shouldn't be too hard to find.


The risk of any repercussions are hardly worth the result I expect, ..............as much as I may like the idea.

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline mommykicksbutt

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Re: This might be insightful to you [#2264]
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2010, 02:13:15 PM »
http://www.normalbobsmith.com/free/flyers/

those are pretty funny, maybe I'll sneak a few into the babbles they have in the pews at the church!

Faith is nice but doubt will get you an education!
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