Author Topic: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters  (Read 24119 times)

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Offline velkyn

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #145 on: May 03, 2012, 03:06:44 PM »
The ability to choose to do good rather than evil is a necessary precondition of salvation and only available to mankind.
  Ah no.  Your bible has various ways to be saved and can't seem to decide on one.  We have the claim that god gives his grace, aka the ability to be saved, only to a select few (romans 9 and when JC talks about why he uses parables).  We then have JC sayign that belief is all one needs.  Then we have that works are either another way to be saved (the sheep and goats speech) or have to be combined with belief (James).  Then Paul claims that it is only through childbirth that women can be saved. Free will is never mentioned.
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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #146 on: May 03, 2012, 03:07:33 PM »
Jst - Jesus was the direct cause of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and a multitude of bloody wars from the Romans all the way through the middle ages...

What other genocide do you want?

Just read through the Gospel of Thomas, a recording of Jesus sayings, and tell me he didn't intend to bring fire, blood, and war.  What amazes me is he got everything he wanted, just because people believed in him - even the terrible stuff...
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #147 on: May 03, 2012, 03:44:09 PM »
Well sometimes my children fight too, although I've not taught them to do so.  I guess somehow Jesus is to blame.  I guess Jesus is to blame for you ignorance too.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline jeremy0

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #148 on: May 03, 2012, 03:46:01 PM »
Well sometimes my children fight too, although I've not taught them to do so.  I guess somehow Jesus is to blame.
Your children fighting are in no relation to Jesus inadvertantly but I could prove by his sayings, deliberately causing the massive wars, torture, and killing in those times...  So yes, he is responsible for those wars. 
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #149 on: May 03, 2012, 04:19:48 PM »
Okay so then it would be my fault they fight?

I mean Jesus did say he came to bring a "sword", but he never instructed his followers to pick one up so it would seem to me that his statement must mean something other than his followers commiting genocide.  The only instruction I can think of where Jesus gave instruction about taking up a sword is when he told his disciple to put away his sword.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #150 on: May 03, 2012, 05:20:48 PM »
Okay so then it would be my fault they fight?

I mean Jesus did say he came to bring a "sword", but he never instructed his followers to pick one up so it would seem to me that his statement must mean something other than his followers commiting genocide.  The only instruction I can think of where Jesus gave instruction about taking up a sword is when he told his disciple to put away his sword.
You're missing my point.  I didn't say Jesus instructed anyone to do anything.  I'm saying that because of his teachings, we fought numerous wars and committed genocide..  And there's evidence within his sayings in the Gospel of Thomas that it was his direct intention...

The only reason it would be your fault that your children fight would be because of your dna you passed to them as well as bad parenting skills..  There is a thread we have going about parenting your children without use of violence.  I suggest you read into it..
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline velkyn

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2012, 08:04:06 AM »
Okay so then it would be my fault they fight?

I mean Jesus did say he came to bring a "sword", but he never instructed his followers to pick one up so it would seem to me that his statement must mean something other than his followers commiting genocide.  The only instruction I can think of where Jesus gave instruction about taking up a sword is when he told his disciple to put away his sword.

jst, you really need to actually read your bible. 
Quote
Luke 22:35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
“Nothing,” they answered.
36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That’s enough!” he replied.

We have again in Luke where your supposed savior also says that those who do not accept him as their king are to be brougt before him and killed (Luke 19).    This is not a person who is saying "kiddies, don't fight".   Each ignorant Christian is sure that their version of what they want their god to have said is the only "right" one and that those who disagree are "evil" by definition.  So they find it their "holy duty" to exterminate those who don't agree.  Now, if your god exists, it allows this killing and destruction to continue without lifting a finger to correct anyone about their delusions.  Considering that this god intervened constantly before modern man started to question things, it should have no problem interfering now with oh, how about appearing in every church everywhere and saying "you idiots, these people (insert sect here) have it right" or "you idiots none of you have it right".  But it doesn't.  It allows people to be killed, starved, maimed, etc just like it allowed Job's family to be murdered for its little bet. 

Not much of a god. 
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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2012, 08:19:09 AM »
We have again in Luke where your supposed savior also says that those who do not accept him as their king are to be brougt before him and killed (Luke 19). 

Ah! Another example of your vast understanding of the Bible.

No, dear. Jesus says no such thing. He is telling a story in human terms to make a point about what is expected of those who serve their king and what will happen to those who rebel against their lawful ruler.


Offline HAL

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2012, 08:26:43 AM »
Jane,

Did you read my post earlier? Cut the snide remarks -

"Ah! Another example of your vast understanding of the Bible."

(that goes for both sides) and stick to the facts. Back up your statements with facts, not quips that people have it wrong. Show them why they are wrong.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #154 on: May 04, 2012, 09:54:53 AM »
Ah! Another example of your vast understanding of the Bible.

No, dear. Jesus says no such thing. He is telling a story in human terms to make a point about what is expected of those who serve their king and what will happen to those who rebel against their lawful ruler.
Jane, first, I’m waiting for you to show evidence that your understanding is the only “right” way.  Do you have any?  Can you show me your version of Christianity is better than someone else’s?  Can you show me that you are more correct than me other than you just virtually stamping your feet and declaring “I’m right everyone else is wrong.”?  Evidence is required, Jane.  Not just you deciding you are the OneTrueChristian tm

Second, I agree, the parable is saying what will happen if you disobey your lawful ruler, and in the parable the lawful ruler is Jesus Christ/God and he says that people who do not obey Jesus Christ/God are to be brought before them and murdered. 

Your argument might hold water if we were talking about the other parables that say that this god of yours will do the murdering itself.  The parable of the tenants for one; the parable of the bags of gold in Matthew for another.  JC was fond of this type of parable warning that those who don’t agree with him would be harmed by his father. They both say god himself will murder or cast into hell anyone who doesn’t obey him.  However, the parable of the minas, though very similar, doesn’t end like that.  We have your supposed savior saying directly that believers are the ones who should do the killing of the unbelievers.  That last sentence in the parable of the minas is a problem for Christians who want to claim that their god is good.
Quote
Luke 19: 25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”

here we have the ruler (JC) talking to the believes (those who have the minas) and we have a demand for murder to be done. It is very unusual but it’s there in your bible, of which you cherry pick the things you want to believe in and ignore those you don’t, claiming that the bible is man-made except for the parts you like.  For you, this part isn’t right but oh the baseless story of the resurrection simply must be true.  And you, and other Christians of various sects, have yet to provide evidence that this is the case. 

Evidence is expected, not anecdotes, not vague claims of prophecy, not forgeries of documents, not mentions of Christians, etc.  Christians can’t even agree on where the tomb of Jesus is and one would think that would have been rather important to them if any of this had occurred.   
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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #155 on: May 04, 2012, 10:13:39 AM »
Ah! Another example of your vast understanding of the Bible.

No, dear. Jesus says no such thing. He is telling a story in human terms to make a point about what is expected of those who serve their king and what will happen to those who rebel against their lawful ruler.

Jane, first, I’m waiting for you to show evidence that your understanding is the only “right” way.  Do you have any?  Can you show me your version of Christianity is better than someone else’s?


Oh dear, always going off-topic to make wild accusations that have nothing to do with anything I have actually said. Here is a good example.  There is no one on the planet who doesn't recognize a parable when he sees one. So we won't waste time on that.

Quote
Can you show me that you are more correct than me other than you just virtually stamping your feet and declaring “I’m right everyone else is wrong.”?  Evidence is required, Jane.  Not just you deciding you are the OneTrueChristian tm
Ah, the angrytm Internet atheist! Where have I claimed anything remotely like this? Where, Velchen? Where? Evidence is required. Stamping your feet makes me laugh. Next you'll threaten to huff and puff and blow my house down.

Quote
Second, I agree, the parable is saying what will happen if you disobey your lawful ruler, and in the parable the lawful ruler is Jesus Christ/God and he says that people who do not obey Jesus Christ/God are to be brought before them and murdered. 
In the parable the ruler is an earthly king of the sort the ancient world was painfully familiar with. Yes of course we are to draw the analogy to God. But analogies do not and cannot correspond 100% God does not slay anyone. He rejects them and sends them to hell, just as they deserve.

The same thing holds for all the other parables you mangle.

Quote
Evidence is expected, not anecdotes, not vague claims of prophecy, not forgeries of documents, not mentions of Christians, etc.  Christians can’t even agree on where the tomb of Jesus is and one would think that would have been rather important to them if any of this had occurred.
Since he isn't there, why would it be important?  As for the rest- oh brother.  There is plenty of information out there for anyone who wants it. You don't. You are frantic to avoid even the shadow of a doubt about your disbelief. Your fear and hatred ooze from ever word you write. What on earth happened to you? Were you raised in some horrible cult where you were beaten every day? Were you not allowed to date until you were 21? Did your father arrange your marriage over your protests? What? What explains your wild, confused, verbose spewing?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 10:17:11 AM by Plain Jane »

Offline Alzael

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #156 on: May 04, 2012, 10:17:13 AM »
Still can't produce a single viable piece of evidence for anything,huh?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #157 on: May 04, 2012, 10:43:35 AM »
Still can't produce a single viable piece of evidence for anything,huh?
As annoyingly obtuse as you are, and as unable to read anything with the slightest comprehension, I must admit that it would intrigue me to see you actually tell me one concrete matter you would like me to produce evidence for. Not that doing so will shut you up because your mind is closed more tightly than a bank vault. But it might still be amusing to me.

Offline Historicity

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #158 on: May 04, 2012, 10:44:18 AM »
Noblemen do not travel to foreign countries to receive a throne.  They normally inherit it or conquer.   The nobleman in the story, however, fits an incident in history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Archelaus
Quote
Archelaus received the Tetrarchy of Judea by the last will of his father, though a previous will had bequeathed it to his brother Antipas. He was proclaimed king by the army, but declined to assume the title until he had submitted his claims to Caesar Augustus in Rome. Before setting out, he quelled with the utmost cruelty a sedition of the Pharisees, slaying nearly three thousand of them. In Rome he was opposed by Antipas and by many of the Jews, who feared his cruelty; but in 4 BC Augustus allotted to him the greater part of the kingdom (Samaria, Judea, and Idumea) with the title of ethnarch (not king) until 6 AD when Judaea province was formed, under direct Roman rule, at the time of the Census of Quirinius.

The first wife of Archelaus is given by Josephus simply as Mariamne ... whom he divorced to marry Glaphyra. She was the widow of Archelaus' brother Alexander, though her second husband, Juba, king of Mauretania, was alive. This violation of the Mosaic law along with Archelaus' continued cruelty roused the ire of the Jews, who complained to Augustus. Archelaus was deposed in the year 6 and banished to Vienne in Gaul; Samaria, Judea proper, and Idumea became the Roman province of Iudaea.

Offline Alzael

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #159 on: May 04, 2012, 11:02:18 AM »
As annoyingly obtuse as you are, and as unable to read anything with the slightest comprehension, I must admit that it would intrigue me to see you actually tell me one concrete matter you would like me to produce evidence for. Not that doing so will shut you up because your mind is closed more tightly than a bank vault. But it might still be amusing to me.

I already have. I'm still waiting for you to provide any evidence that Jesus exists, remember our little game? Or is my little game the reason you can only seem to resort to Ad Hominems?

Come now, caper for my amusement, my little monkey.
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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #160 on: May 04, 2012, 11:35:35 AM »
^ Fail

Offline velkyn

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #161 on: May 04, 2012, 11:47:26 AM »
Oh dear, always going off-topic to make wild accusations that have nothing to do with anything I have actually said. Here is a good example.  There is no one on the planet who doesn't recognize a parable when he sees one.  So we won't waste time on that.
  So you can’t show me that your understanding is the correct one. That is good to know. A parable is short story to instruct, Jane.  The instructions in the parable of the minas is this god is to be accepted and that those who do not accept him are to be killed before him.  Parables use symbology, the king equaling JC in this instance as you noted.  What does this mean symbolically since you seem to be sure I’m wrong.  “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
Quote
Ah, the angrytm Internet atheist! Where have I claimed anything remotely like this? Where, Velchen? Where? Evidence is required. Stamping your feet makes me laugh. Next you'll threaten to huff and puff and blow my house down.
I’m not angry, hate to disappoint you though.  And ah, the time-honered attempted by a Christian to anger someone by intentionally mis-spelling a screen name. Oh, I’m so hurt :D Every theist thinks that they are have the right answers. You have repeatedly claimed that the Roman Catholic church that you follow is the only right one.  I know this because you believe in what you say.  It’s not that hard to figure out, Jane.  But if you want evidence of your own words, I’m happy to oblige:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the creation story is told in figurative language but affirms a primeval event at the beginning of human history. That strikes me as the right approach.
You claiming the RCC is right.

I have not been able to read the entire thread but this last bit caught my eye. Where does Jesus say that the Jews should kill their children? He doesn't, of course.
Yet to give evidence so baseless claim to know everything.
Err, no. God gave us free will, which means the ability to make moral choices. We can either follow God or follow a path or our own devising. Anyone who goes to hell, chooses to do so.
you claiming you are right when plenty of ther Christians don’t agree with you.  Need I go on?

Quote
In the parable the ruler is an earthly king of the sort the ancient world was painfully familiar with. Yes of course we are to draw the analogy to God. But analogies do not and cannot correspond 100% God does not slay anyone. He rejects them and sends them to hell, just as they deserve.  The same thing holds for all the other parables you mangle.
and one more time for good measure where you decide you and only you know the “right” answer.  As for your claim that your god does not slay anyone, let me remind you of david’s son, Uzza,
Quote
1 Samuel 6: 19 But God struck down some of the inhabitants of Beth Shemesh, putting seventy of them to death because they looked into the ark of the LORD. The people mourned because of the heavy blow the LORD had dealt them
other translatiosn has the number as 50,070. 
Quote
1 Kings 20: 35 By the word of the LORD one of the company of the prophets said to his companion, “Strike me with your weapon,” but he refused.36 So the prophet said, “Because you have not obeyed the LORD, as soon as you leave me a lion will kill you.” And after the man went away, a lion found him and killed him.

Again, Jane, you really should read your bible.  It would help with your mistakes.

Quote
Since he isn't there, why would it be important?  As for the rest- oh brother.  There is plenty of information out there for anyone who wants it. You don't. You are frantic to avoid even the shadow of a doubt about your disbelief. Your fear and hatred ooze from ever word you write. What on earth happened to you? Were you raised in some horrible cult where you were beaten every day? Were you not allowed to date until you were 21? Did your father arrange your marriage over your protests? What? What explains your wild, confused, verbose spewing?
You certainly pick and choose what’s “important” Jane.  Why is St. Peter’s important if no one is there?  Why is the supposed location important if no one is there?  why do thousands of Christians, including Catholics, venerate one or the other of the two supposed tombs of JC?  (there are more, one in India, and I think one in Japan if I’m not mistaken)  And again we have you making claims but showing no evidence at all and using the same lie as you have before.  No Jane, I am not close-minded or rebelling or whatever other fantasies you have conjured for yourself to excuse your failure.  If there is evidence I want to see it.  I do not want personal anecdotes, or vague claims of prophecy, or forgeries or siting of Christians or watching Chrsitians disagree with each other.  None of those are evidence.  I want to see a miracle, which your god had no problem in doing in your stories. 

I want to see evidence that the flood happened.  I want to see that other people noticed the very big events your bible claims.  where is the evidence for hundreds of thousands of people wandering around in the desert for 40 years?  Why did no one notice that Egypt lost its army and a large percentage of its population and livestock?  The other kingdoms around it would have loved that.  Why did no one notice an earthquake of a magnitude to massively shake the temple anywhere near the time that this savior of yours supposedly died (another thing that Christians can’t agree on) or the dead walking the streets? or the sun going dark?

And oh my, the personal attacks. :D  and the desperation to connect your claims to my posts.  I guess if you have nothing else, nasty fantasies are all you have.  Alas, for you none of them are true and your continued attempted to create an atheist strawman to attack is doing nothing but serving as comedy.   
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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #162 on: May 04, 2012, 11:58:55 AM »
^ That would be more believable if you didn't have drool running down your chin.
Why do truthfulness and brevity so elude you? This is a verbose pack of lies. Pick one and one only of the lies you have packed into this post for me to respond to.

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #163 on: May 04, 2012, 12:28:00 PM »
I cannot believe I feel compelled to respond to this insofar as someone would compare Hitler to Jesus.

As was shown earlier Jesus stated he would bring division.  The Bible, as it always does, shows what this means.

“When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left."  (Mathew 25:31-33)

This means he will seperate those that please God from those that do not.

As was pointed out Jesus also said he came to bring a sword.  Again, the Bible shows the meaning.

"And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God. Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty."  (Revelation 19:11-15)

Ultimately Jesus is to destroy those that fight against God.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline velkyn

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #164 on: May 04, 2012, 12:44:12 PM »
^ That would be more believable if you didn't have drool running down your chin.
Why do truthfulness and brevity so elude you? This is a verbose pack of lies. Pick one and one only of the lies you have packed into this post for me to respond to.

more insults and the demonstration of your inablity to refute even a single point that I have made.  You may pick whatever you'd like to address, Jane.  questions are to be answered and if you have a rebuttal of a point I've made, you can present evidence against it. 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2012, 12:49:37 PM »

I'm calling a time out.

This thread will be locked for 24 hours, or until I get around to unlocking it.  Whichever is longer.

 
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #166 on: May 05, 2012, 07:10:30 AM »
okay.  the pool is open again.  Be excellent to each other.
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Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #167 on: May 05, 2012, 01:03:22 PM »
Excellent? Well, yes, since I have the facts. But I wouldn't bother responding to a woman I believe is mentally unstable but for the fact that I suffer from a chronic condition-- Lastworditis.

...

Plain Jane's post was mostly deleted due to her continuation of embedded snide remarks show above, which will only serve to cause others to reply in-kind. A productive conversation cannot be had by either side unless we stop the quips and insults. Stick to the facts.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 01:09:23 PM by HAL »

Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #168 on: May 05, 2012, 01:10:38 PM »
I have stuck to the facts. Hopefully, you pointed out what I must change to suit you because, quite frankly, everything I wrote is true, and stated much more gently than the garbage that has been heaped on me,.

Offline HAL

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #169 on: May 05, 2012, 01:12:45 PM »
I have stuck to the facts. Hopefully, you pointed out what I must change to suit you because, quite frankly, everything I wrote is true, and stated much more gently than the garbage that has been heaped on me,.

Try posting again but I won't tolerate any more snide remarks - by either side or the thread will be locked again. Everybody should be able to state facts without insults if we are all adults. But I could be wrong.

Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #170 on: May 05, 2012, 01:15:29 PM »
You are clearly wrong as every single post in every single thread demonstrates. You just don't tolerate push back. Now, either you will allow me to write the truth or you won't. But understand this, i do not wish to remain here. I already indicated why I was posting again. Do you really not understand that there is value in truth?

Offline Alzael

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #171 on: May 05, 2012, 01:40:24 PM »
You are clearly wrong as every single post in every single thread demonstrates.

Please feel free to prove this. You have been asked repeatedly to provide evidene for your claims.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #172 on: May 05, 2012, 01:41:10 PM »
So you can’t show me that your understanding is the correct one. That is good to know. A parable is short story to instruct, Jane. ... Parables use symbology, the king equaling JC in this instance as you noted.
If I noted it, as you say, does that not mean that I have shown you that my understanding is the correct one?

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You have repeatedly claimed that the Roman Catholic church that you follow is the only right one.  I know this because you believe in what you say.  It’s not that hard to figure out, Jane.
Let's see. I have repeatedly claimed that the RCC is the only right one. But not really. You know this because I believe what I say!  Well, there is no arguing with that.
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But if you want evidence of your own words, I’m happy to oblige:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the creation story is told in figurative language but affirms a primeval event at the beginning of human history. That strikes me as the right approach.
You claiming the RCC is right.


Thanks to Dictionary.com, I can demonstrate that you have misunderstood:

it strikes me that
Fig(urative). it seems to me that. ...

Thus, when I wrote:  The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that the creation story is told in figurative language but affirms a primeval event at the beginning of human history. That strikes me as the right approach. my meaning was:It seems to me that the CCC approach is correct.  Thus your claim that I am stating that it is correct is shown to be incorrect. I stated my opinion.

Err, no. God gave us free will, which means the ability to make moral choices. We can either follow God or follow a path or our own devising. Anyone who goes to hell, chooses to do so.
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you claiming you are right when plenty of ther Christians don’t agree with you.  Need I go on?


Yes. You need to explain to me why I must account for every difference of opinion on a subject, when I make a statement or express my opinion. It will slow things down mightily if I must restate what I have already said (Original sin is a funny subject. Not every denomination understands it the same way) and must do so every time I post on the subject.

Beyond that, the vast majority of Christendom does believe in free will. Evidence for that statement? Go to adherents.com (or any one of many other statistical sites) and look up which body of Christians is the largest in the world. Not by a little but by a lot. Then tell me why I must account for the views of small clusters of sects and a few denominations before I post anything here.

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You certainly pick and choose what’s “important” Jane.  Why is St. Peter’s important if no one is there?  Why is the supposed location important if no one is there?  why do thousands of Christians, including Catholics, venerate one or the other of the two supposed tombs of JC?  (there are more, one in India, and I think one in Japan if I’m not mistaken)  And again we have you making claims but showing no evidence at all and using the same lie as you have before.
What claims have I made? What lies?

Re tombs: Christ’s is not particularly important because he is not there. St. Peter’s is important because he is there. Christians venerate all the sites associated with Jesus, either real or legendary. They always have and always will. The fact that there are a couple of places that contend for the honor of being his temporary tomb is irrelevant to me and to many others.

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I want to see evidence that the flood happened.  I want to see that other people noticed the very big events your bible claims.  where is the evidence for hundreds of thousands of people wandering around in the desert for 40 years?  Why did no one notice that Egypt lost its army and a large percentage of its population and livestock?  The other kingdoms around it would have loved that.  Why did no one notice an earthquake of a magnitude to massively shake the temple anywhere near the time that this savior of yours supposedly died (another thing that Christians can’t agree on) or the dead walking the streets? or the sun going dark?


Since I have not so much as breathed a word about any of this, what is the relevance of this to me? Why are you writing long posts that jump from one unrelated subject to another? Why the accusations that I am desperate to connect my claims (what claims???) to your posts? What on earth does that even mean? I am not attempting to create an atheist straw man (whatever that is supposed to mean). You have gone so far beyond anything that I have written that I am utterly baffled.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 01:48:06 PM by Plain Jane »

Offline Alzael

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Re: Contradiction begins in the first two chapters
« Reply #173 on: May 05, 2012, 02:21:16 PM »
Just out of curiousity, you do realize that trying to give me a negative point does not negate the validity of the statement?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.