Author Topic: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!  (Read 6889 times)

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Offline awakekings

God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« on: January 13, 2010, 06:50:50 AM »
http://www.commongroundchristiannews.com/sept2006/heidi_baker.htm

Yup! This ladies story is unreal.. google Iris Ministries.. amazing woman of God. Did i mention people have been brought back to life?

God Bless folks! Now let the bashing begin! Also, check out the movie The Finger of God... proof is in there of everything you guys don't believe! Also, in February a movie called Furious Love will be coming out (google it!) and it has even more amazing miracles and other awesome showings of the power of God you guys just cant seem to believe! Google all that stuff! Furious love has a trailer too I believe! take care guyss!!

-Kevin.

Offline Levan

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 08:08:46 AM »
1) Where can we find this "documented proof"?
2) Why doesn't she regenerate a limb on live television (or any other form of mass media)?
3) Why doesn't she apply for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge?
4) Why is it that the link does not give any sources, or ways to verify that this is true?
5) Why is it that the Iris Ministries website doesn't have any sequential pictures of a limb regrowing? (or, for that matter, any proof of a miracle?)

Number 1 is pretty much self-explanatory.

Numbers 2 and 3 are ways to prove to the world that God exists[1]. It seems that doing this would convert and save millions more people than healing people in some obscure location. "Because it violates free will" obviously isn't an answer for number 2 or 3, as you claim she has "documented proof".

Numbers 4 and 5 are self-explanatory as well.

I haven't checked out the movie trailer yet; I'll do so in a little while. I do have one question about it, however:

1) Why is it that you have to pay to watch the movie? If God provides him the fees out of nowhere, and making people pay to watch it would stop tens of millions of people from watching it (and thus receiving "proof"), why does the maker of the video charge people for it? It really reeks of a scam.
 1. just imagine what would happen if someone actually passed the $1,000,000 challenge!

Offline Operator_011

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2010, 08:18:37 AM »
Hi awakekings, welcome to WWGHA.

I've just read the link to a christian news site and the only thing in it that even mentions the growing back of limbs is this one sentence:
Quote
They have seen thousands come to Christ, receive supernatural healings (including the growing back of limbs)

The remainder of the link is merely an advertisement for an evangelist christian.

Threads need to bring a meaningful discussion point and I fail to see what value an advertisement for an evangelist christian brings in relation to a discussion about god healing amputees?

I'd like you to have a thorough look at WWGHA Rules, WWGHA Rules for Christians, and our Forum Etiquette Guide.

Thanks.


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« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:46:36 PM by Moderator_011 »
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Offline William

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2010, 08:20:12 AM »
This ladies story is unreal ...

I think you meant "This lady's story ..."   ;D
But I agree with you on the "... is unreal ..."
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Offline screwtape

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2010, 08:22:19 AM »
http://www.commongroundchristiannews.com/sept2006/heidi_baker.htm

This article is an advertisement. Everything on that site is some kind of advertisement.  They even say as much in the "About us" page:
Quote
Common Ground Christian News is a nondenominational Christian newspaper dedicated to bringing unity to the Body of Christ. We do not necessarily endorse the views of the writers in this paper, and we will not be held responsible for any claims made by our advertisers. We do not give refunds on advertisement. However, if we make an error on any ad, we will run the corrected ad free of charge in the next publication. We reserve the right to refuse any or all advertisement as subject to the policies of Integra Media concepts. We are supported solely by your prayers, ads and subscriptions. We are not a non-profit organization. Please address all correspondence to the editor. We are an equal opportunity employer.
http://www.commongroundchristiannews.com/staff.htm


Yup! This ladies story is unreal

I agree.  It is unreal.  As in, completely fabricated.  A lie.

.. google Iris Ministries.. amazing woman of God.

I thought women were not allowed to teach men?

Did i mention people have been brought back to life?

You did.  Did you provide any reasonable evidence of such a ridiculous claim?  You did not.

Seriously, what kind of gullible rube are you?
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Offline William

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 08:25:37 AM »
.. google Iris Ministries..

I'm calling scam deluxe  &)

Quote
Mail an ordinary check made out to
"Iris Ministries" addressed to:

Iris Ministries, Inc.
P. O. Box 493995
Redding, CA 96049-3995
USA

The money will be wired to us in Mozambique, and we will get any enclosed mail and a report of the donation. You will receive a receipt by either postal mail or email. Postal mail in Africa is very slow and unreliable. Therefore it is not wise to mail donations to us in Africa.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 08:27:34 AM by William »
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Offline Banksie

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 08:45:42 AM »
I wonder if she's related to the nice man from Nigeria that emailed me?  He is actually a prince who has been exiled by the government and needs my bank account to deposit his family's fortune of $40,000,000 into of which I can keep 10%.  I've sent him the legal fees of $2000 via western union money transfer and I'm just waiting for the fortune to turn up in my account.
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Offline William

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 08:48:09 AM »
Here they are handing out essential supplies (what is that green stuff  :shrug ) to needy Mozambique kids:




... followed by some dress-ups and make-believe:




... and some spreading of His word of course:
 


Nice to see where one's money goes  ;D

Pics from here:
http://www.irismin.org/gallery/index.php?spgmGal=December 21 2009
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Offline RaymondKHessel

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 11:34:15 AM »
ROFLMMFAO!!!  :D  ;D  :D

WOOOOOOOOOW. Regenerated limbs, huh? Ressurected *53* people from the dead!?

Holy Ox Testicles!

This lady makes Yahweh look like a mongoloid!!! Forget Jebus, I'm worshipping THIS lady!!! JEBUS never ressurected *53* people!  :o

Funny how all this is happening in some hovel in Africa, and not, say, in Cleveland, where there might be a medical record or, Yahweh forbid, a T.V. camera around.  :D

Come on back to the States, sister. Just bring ONE person back from the dead. I promise you, your ministry will have all the funding it will ever need. You could buy Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and keep them as personal foot massagers if you wanted to.

Also funny how nobody's ever heard of this broad before, considering she's supposedly opened EIGHT. THOUSAND. CHURCHES... Which would make her about 100 times bigger than any other ministry in history.

Lol... Whatever. It's as transparent a scam as any I've ever seen. What a crock of s**t. TC, you should be embarassed for believing this.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 11:49:05 AM by RaymondKHessel »
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Offline Emily

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 11:46:38 AM »
Damn now you tell me about this person. I just sent my request for miracle spring water....

Quote
In Mozambique, many refer to her as “the dirt lady” because she will literally lay with her face in the dirt for hours at a time crying out to God to save the people of Mozambique.

Hilarious!

I think she needs help.


Nice earings she's wearing. I hope they are clip ons. Don't want to violate Leviticus....

Leviticus 19:28 (King James Version)
28Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.



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Offline Cashinc

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 04:57:25 PM »


I just read an article put out on the iris website.  They say they are getting converts in the hundreds daily.  

Isn't it amazing, a spiral of deception.  Take the most uneducated 3rd world people on the planet, starving to death daily, offer them food and the word of god and they believe it. What is so surprising in this?

You could offer them food and tell them that they needed to pray and worship pig testicles and I am sure you would have the same results.  Followers!

Religion is taking advantage of and preying on the most uneducated, repressed in society.

Photo from their website showing the praising of pig testicles, I mean God.

http://www.irismin.org/gallery/gal/June%202003/9.jpg
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 05:05:55 PM by Cashinc »

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 07:47:45 PM »
How about you guys watch the movie, Finger of God? look it up. its a MOVIE. visual. It is the 100% real deal. Look also at the history of the making in it.

Also, this stuff is pretty normal to me! I have friends that have been healed of cancer, and all sorts of things (i dont know a amputee personally, so, havent seen anything there), but i have close friends that i KNOW wouldn't fabricate such things. They have been healed, completely of diseases. Bethel Church in Redding, CA sees these things every day it's basically normal to them. http://ibethel.tv watch some testimonies!

Also, Heidi was called by God to go there, she doesn't want fame, loads of cash, or anything. That is her life. Other than the 100% true healings, you guys are bashing a ministry that takes care of thousands of Kids... shame on you.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 07:55:34 PM by awakekings »

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2010, 07:52:44 PM »
Levan,

Well, the main reason he charges for the Finger of God, is so that he can make some sort of a income (all pastors make money too you know), and for the funding of his newest movie, Furious Love
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 07:58:58 PM by awakekings »

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2010, 07:57:03 PM »
awakekings,

Are you debating yourself?

Why are you posting 2 responses in a row without addressing any particular member?

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2010, 07:59:41 PM »
awakekings,

Are you debating yourself?

Why are you posting 2 responses in a row without addressing any particular member?

Well, the first post is addressing everyone, for everyone disagrees, obviously. The second I fixed, sorry about that.

Offline Emily

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2010, 08:00:07 PM »
Quote
Also, this stuff is pretty normal to me! I have friends that have been healed of cancer

Cancer can go into remission. Really there's no reason to think it was god's doing.

Quote
but i have close friends that i KNOW wouldn't fabricate such things.

They don't need to fabricate anything. They just need the mindset that god heals. Still doesn't mean that god has healed anything, however. It's just where the credit is going.
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Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2010, 08:02:08 PM »
^ It's been 6 years, the doctors can't find a thing, it's completely gone... and it's not only one friend. Why is it that when we prayed for them the same day we went to the hospital it was gone? Coincidence? Sorry I didn't take any pictures of the x-rays... yet... i could fabricate that too.


[modbreak= Post edited by Moderator_011] Removed unnecessary quoting.   Quoting FAQ’s . [/modbreak]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:55:41 PM by Moderator_011 »

Offline Emily

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2010, 08:04:52 PM »
It's been 6 years, the doctors can't find a thing, it's completely gone... and it's not only one friend. Why is it that when we prayed for them the same day we went to the hospital it was gone? Coincidence? Sorry I didn't take any pictures of the x-rays... yet... i could fabricate that too.

Um, ok. Perhaps it was a coincidence.

Try having your friends pray for James Randi. He's not doing well. Still he's facing it head on and letting the doctors take care of it, and give them credit too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzySHcWuRqw[/youtube]
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Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2010, 08:06:57 PM »
My mother and grandmother died of cancer. But, I guess they deserved it they were godless heathens.

I think it is the height of arrogance to say "I was healed through faith." It is a really nice way of saying "You didn't have enough faith, too bad for you", it is also a way to say, "Look at me I'm not a godless heathen."
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2010, 08:10:04 PM »
Quote
Um, ok. Perhaps it was a coincidence.

Try having your friends pray for James Randi. He's not doing well. Still he's facing it head on and letting the doctors take care of it, and give them credit too.

Yeah, well I pray you experience that your neighborhood. I would love to pray for him if I could meet him.

[modbreak= Post edited by Moderator_011] Removed unnecessary quoting.   Quoting FAQ’s . [/modbreak]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:56:07 PM by Moderator_011 »

Offline Hermes

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2010, 08:12:10 PM »
Awakekings, the issue brought up by the question "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" is not if your deity Yahweh heals anyone, but why it can't seem to perform unambiguous miracles on a regular basis.  This is in direct contradiction to the Christian Bible.  As such, the Bible is not reliable and so all of it's other claims are suspect or mythic.  Note that 'amount of faith' is not something that appears in the parts of the Bible that deal with intercessory prayers.

Check a Bible or a dozen for yourself;

http://www.biblegateway.com

Quote
   * If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

    * If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

    * Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

    * Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

    * Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]



Details ....


The intent of the videos is to lay out the facts quickly, and offer a conclusion that is consistent with those facts.  The other resources such as the forums and the web site book are available to flesh out those facts.

Behind the question "Why Won't God Heal Amputees?" is this;

Is the Christian Bible reliable as a guide to reality?

From that, as the investigation given in the videos and the other more detailed resources show, we get to the clear conclusion that it is not.  As such, one of the conclusions is that the deity Yahweh of the Christian Bible is imaginary.

I realize that conclusion may seem like a stretch to you, but let's take the first part first;

Is the Christian Bible reliable as a guide to reality?

To draw out that main question -- is the Bible reliable -- the videos focus on the Why won't God heal amputees? question, though it can be seen in different ways.  For example;

Why won't the Christian deity Yahwey/Jesus restore the limbs of amputees or perform other unambiguous miracles here and now?

... or ...

If the Bible is correct,
amputees getting restored limbs
and other supernatural miracles
should be as plentiful as confetti
on the sidewalk after a parade.

A look at reality shows this is not the case,
thus the Bible and any conclusions in it
can not be used as a reliable guide to reality.

Yet, that's a conclusion.  An assertion.  One that I think is well supported, but you may disagree in part or in whole or depending on the context.

So, why do I say the Bible is unreliable?  The basics are simple;

1. The Christian Bible has promises in it.

2. The promises are said to be kept in ambiguous situations; found keys, cancer remissions, ... .

3. The promises are not kept in unambiguous situations, such as but not limited to amputees.

What promises?  The web site's author mentions some of them;

Quote
You can see that the amputee experiment reframes our conversation. No longer are we talking about "religion" or "faith" or "God's existence". What we are talking about here is the basic human ability to process factual information. Jesus makes a number of promises about prayer in the Bible:

    * If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

    * If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

    * Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

    * Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

    * Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

Are Jesus' promises true or false? By looking at amputees we can see that they are false. Jesus/God never answer prayers to spontaneously restore lost limbs, despite the promises in the Bible.

If you are a believer, and if this is the first time you have thought about the situation faced by amputees seriously, you may have a set of rationalizations and excuses swirling through your head right now.

So, what can we say is possible based on comparing the promises made in the Christian Bible to the what we see in reality?  A few potential conclusions come to mind;

1. The book is wrong, but the Christian deity Yahweh exists.

2. The book was right, but the Christian deity Yahweh no longer honors the book though it could.

3. The book was right, but the Christian deity Yahweh no longer honors the book because it can't.

4. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because the Christian deity Yahweh doesn't exist.

5. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because some other deity or deities exist, not the Christian one, and that deity or deities don't honor what they did not sign up for.

6. The book is not relevant to the questions it raises because some other deity or deities exist, not the Christian one, and that deity or deities do honor similar promises to those who pray to them or offer some other communication or gift as a bribe for the miracle.  (Example: Hindu miracles.)

I'm going with #4.  What about you?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2010, 08:14:30 PM by Hermes »
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Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2010, 08:12:41 PM »
My mother and grandmother died of cancer. But, I guess they deserved it they were godless heathens.

I think it is the height of arrogance to say "I was healed through faith." It is a really nice way of saying "You didn't have enough faith, too bad for you", it is also a way to say, "Look at me I'm not a godless heathen."

I'm really sorry about that.. like, truly.. sometimes people just die and we have no clue why. My best friends mom died of Lukimia (i don't know how to spell that) and it was tragic, cause my best friend was only 9. People prayed for her so much, but, she passed away. We don't know why God doesn't heal some people.. but I do know there are just things that happen and for some people it is there time to go.

Offline Emily

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2010, 08:16:50 PM »
Yeah, well I pray you experience that your neighborhood. I would love to pray for him if I could meet him.

The point of me posting the Randi video is to get you to think that perhaps it was through medical science, and not prayer that the cancer is gone. I don't know the medical aspect of your story, but I really do believe medicine is largely to thank.

PS: We need people like James Randi in the world. Without him the world will fall apart at its seams.
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Offline Emily

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Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2010, 08:21:18 PM »
We don't know why God doesn't heal some people..

I think I know the answer. It's because he doesn't exist.
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I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2010, 08:22:03 PM »
Awakinings,

I don't think you are a bad person. I do think you haven't applied logic to what you believe though. You are gullible, I mean that as a compliment in a way. I know gullible people in real life, they are very nice and hard working. But, I wouldn't trust them with much of importance. It really is ok to question what people tell you as a matter of fact I think it is important to do so. I wish I could help you to learn to think critically, but I really don't know what the first step would be, because I have always had this tendency to be skeptical.
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2010, 08:23:54 PM »
Hermes,

First off, I'd like to say thank you for being respectful, truly :)

As for which one I'm going with, let me make a new option:

"The Bible is right, yesterday, today, and forever, and Yahweh still honors everything in the book"

Let me ask one more thing. I believe INTENSELY what the bible says about having faith and all the verses you stated because of the experiences in my life, but many here are wondering... "WHY not here? WHY not me? This is a stupid joke."

Have you guys truly followed those verses? Do you guys also know that a man without the spirit cannot understand things of the spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14)?

If you are a believer, those verses are APPLICABLE. And if they ARE applicable, you must actually follow them.

Have you TRULY believed? Some are like "Yeah I believed but nothing happened so I moved on and screwed that"

Many of you take these verses out of context COMPLETELY. Ask and it will be given? So if I ask for a ferrari I'll get it? When he said all these things, the people there knew that Jesus was saying all these things that it would be according to the Will of God.

Try adding on, "according to His will" to every verse you stated.. some you can't add on the end of them, but picture that overrall idea.

SOME people just don't get healed, and MOST people just deny it, and say "Well its a bunch of BS, it's not happening here!" .. well there goes the faith.

Again, refer to 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Offline GetMeThere

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2010, 08:26:50 PM »
I have friends that have been healed of cancer, and all sorts of things (i dont know a amputee personally, so, havent seen anything there), but i have close friends that i KNOW wouldn't fabricate such things. They have been healed, completely of diseases. Bethel Church in Redding, CA sees these things every day it's basically normal to them. http://ibethel.tv watch some testimonies!

At least you're honest.

The POINT of the website is to make CLEAR that reports of healings through prayer are no doubt bogus, because the ONE THING that NEVER spontaneously heals (and is unambiguous) is a missing limb. Perhaps you should come back when someone you KNOW who is missing a limb--because you saw the stump with your own eyes--had it grow back. It's VERY EASY to find these people: volunteer to help out at a veteran's hospital. You can bring them all to JESUS and collect ABSOLUTE PROOF--instead of bringing us second hand reports from others. You'll even be in a position to know the doctors and nurses who know the patients, who can ALSO testify to the miracle, AND, you'll have the medical records right there at the vet hospital!! It's TAILOR MADE for MIRACLES and as an opportunity to DEMONSTRATE MIRACLES TO A WORLD HUNGRY FOR THEM! Just THINK of how god will love your for such a service!

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2010, 08:29:26 PM »
Awakinings,

I don't think you are a bad person. I do think you haven't applied logic to what you believe though. You are gullible, I mean that as a compliment in a way. I know gullible people in real life, they are very nice and hard working. But, I wouldn't trust them with much of importance. It really is ok to question what people tell you as a matter of fact I think it is important to do so. I wish I could help you to learn to think critically, but I really don't know what the first step would be, because I have always had this tendency to be skeptical.

 :) I am very gullible to what God does. It's happened everywhere in my life! It was pretty weird at the beginning, but now it's totally normal. There are too many cases in my life for me to disagree with it! Also, I send my love towards you.. I honor you totally.

Offline awakekings

Re: God Does Heal Amputees. Here ya go, read it!
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2010, 08:32:59 PM »
At least you're honest.
Honestly, I'm in a season in my life where I have been struggling with temptations.. so I'm just reading and praying for wisdom.. but once I get on track with God and if the Spirit leads me to a place with amputees.. I PROMISE I will film this and take pictures. I love it when God does these things!

[modbreak= Post edited by Moderator_011] Removed unnecessary quoting.  Quoting FAQ’s . [/modbreak]
« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 01:58:17 PM by Moderator_011 »