Author Topic: New Noah's ark story  (Read 8637 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kevyrat69

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1209
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • oh rats.
New Noah's ark story
« on: January 10, 2010, 10:30:06 PM »
Please read it the whole thing the ending is important ;D

Did Noah Get Around in a Circular Ark? Updated: 22 hours 55 minutes ago
Print Text Size E-mail More
Theunis Bates
 Contributor
LONDON (Jan. 8) – Ask any Christian, Jew or Muslim to draw you a picture of Noah's ark and you'll probably get a sketch of a regular wooden boat being boarded by a procession of animals – two by two, of course. But that's all wrong. According to new evidence, the ark wasn't a pointy-prowed vessel, but a giant round raft.

This ship shape discovery was made by Irving Finkel, an expert in ancient Mesopotamia (now Iraq) at London's British Museum. While translating a 3,700-year-old clay tablet inscribed with Babylonian cuneiform script – passed to the museum by the son of a British Air Force man, who picked it up while serving in the Middle East during World War II – he spotted an "extremely exciting" reference to the ark's "circular design." This was a revelation, says Finkel, not only because he'd never thought of the ark as round, but because this was the first-ever ancient description of the ark's shape. Neither the Bible nor other Babylonian documents featuring the great flood offered any guidance of that sort.
 
Getty Images
The usual depictions of Noah's ark, like this one from the 13th century, are all wrong, according to a newly translated Babylonian tablet.
"When you see paintings of Noah's ark, it always has a prow and a stern, and it's an ocean-going vessel that could get you from A to B," says Finkel. "But the poet who wrote this version conceived the ark as a giant coracle, which have steep sides and a rounded bottom." These highly stable boats, he notes, were used to float goods and animals from one side of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers to the other, and are still sometimes used in Iraq today.

"I think when the rains came and the waters covered the earth, the idea was that this boat would keep everybody safe," he says. "They'd bob around on top of the water and then when the waters went down, everyone could get out safely. It didn't have to go anywhere. It just had to be unsinkable."

The hero of the newly translated tablet – which is slightly bigger than a cell phone, and is inscribed with 60 lines of cuneiform text – isn't Noah, but a possible historical predecessor named Atram-Hasi. It begins with a mischievous Babylonian god named Enki telling the wise, kind and holy Atram-Hasi how to escape a great deluge planned by his rival deities. (They were apparently fed up with noisy humans, who interfered with their sleep.)

"Wall, wall! Reed wall, reed wall!" says Enki. "Atram-Hasis, pay heed to my advice, that you may live forever! Destroy your house, build a boat; despise possessions and save life! Draw out the boat that you will built with a circular design; Let its length and breadth be the same."

Like an ancient DIY guru, Enki gives his chosen man precise instructions: He's told to use plaited palm fiber, waterproofed with bitumen, for the hull, and advised on how he should build cabins for the people and wild animals. The episode ends with Atram-Hasis commanding an unfortunate boat builder, who will be left to die on land, to seal the door once everyone is safely inside: "When I shall have gone into the boat, caulk the frame of the door."

The story may only be a work of fiction, built upon folk memories of great river floods long past, but it demonstrates the exceptional storytelling skills of the Babylonians. Finkel believes the tale deliberately ends on a cliffhanger – "You can almost imagine the theme music coming in as the door is closed," he says – to leave the audience craving the next episode, which would have continued Atram-Hasis' incredible odyssey.

And he believes that ancient Jews living in exile in Babylon at this time would also have been wowed by the tale. So much, in fact, that they may have transformed it into their own epic story: Noah and the ark.
Filed under: World, Only On Sphere
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

whatever people are experiencing when they experience God, it's not something they're perceiving in the external world. It's something their brains are making up.
Greta Christina

Offline bahramthered

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3140
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 01:31:15 AM »
So? Historically we know the ark is an older myth that christian jacked. We even have suggestions as to the real world events that might have inspired it. How does this help on either front?

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2010, 02:47:22 AM »
Nice find kevyrat69  :D
Brings us a bit closer to the truth .... that it's all fiction  ;D
Git mit uns

Online wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2802
  • Darwins +121/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2010, 03:42:00 AM »
I'll look into that. I am sure I saw something on TV some years ago about the west coast of India and a sunken city just off the coast as a possible source of the legend.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline jedweber

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2010, 09:25:26 AM »
I guess the story is a powerful mythological archetype that has appeared in various cultures throughout our history, and still does today. Some disaster or malevolent force wipes out most of humanity. The remaining humans must fight heroically to survive the ______ [deadly virus, nuclear holocaust, alien invasion, Terminators, zombie hordes, etc.] and preserve the species, with the hope of eventually repopulating the earth. How many books and movies does that describe? Today we're more likely to blame the global disaster on ourselves rather than God. But still, if the ancient Babylonians were us, this could be an action movie with Bruce Willis or The Rock as "Atram-Hassis".

Of course, stupid fundies who take everything literally will probably tell us why the Babylonians got the real  "facts" of Noah's story wrong (1000 years in advance), or they'll debate which shape of ark could hold more, or maybe they'll go out looking for the remains of a giant circular raft...

Offline kenn

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2010, 09:38:04 AM »
So? Historically we know the ark is an older myth that christian jacked.

That is one possibility to explain why similar flood accounts are found accross numerous cultures.

The other possibility is, well, that there really was a flood.

Offline Agamemnon

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4940
  • Darwins +15/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2010, 09:43:40 AM »
The other possibility is, well, that there really was a flood.

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. It is another possibility... One that is easily discounted as utterly absurd.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline jedweber

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3791
  • Darwins +19/-0
  • Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2010, 09:47:07 AM »
That is one possibility to explain why similar flood accounts are found accross numerous cultures.
The other possibility is, well, that there really was a flood.

Of course, if there was a global flood as the Bible describes, those other cultures shouldn't have been around to write flood stories.

Offline kenn

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2010, 10:05:10 AM »

Of course, if there was a global flood as the Bible describes, those other cultures shouldn't have been around to write flood stories.

If there was a global flood as the Bible describes, then those other cultures would have all come from Noah and his crew and the story would have been passed down in that way.

Offline kcrady

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1350
  • Darwins +454/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Your Friendly Neighborhood Cephalopod Overlord
    • My blog
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 10:44:40 AM »
Ahahahahahahahahaha!!!  A round Ark!  I can just see Noah and all the zoo animals and dinosaurs spinning 'round in the thing like a giant Tilt-O-Whirl as it rides the huge world-sweeping tsunamis.  Thanks for that image!  Hilarious!

"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Zankuu

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2125
  • Darwins +135/-3
  • Gender: Male
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 10:50:33 AM »
Noah, Utnapishtim, meet Atram-Hasis.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Emergence

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 832
  • Darwins +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • do i look impressed?
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2010, 10:52:19 AM »
Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.
Arthur Schopenhauer

EurekAlert - Science News / Public Library of Science / Scholarpedia

Offline Levan

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2010, 10:55:38 AM »
You're making a very bold statement here, Mr. Kenn.

Quote
The other possibility is, well, that there really was a flood.

You're claiming that all humans descend from one family that survived a divinely-induced worldwide flood that killed off all life except insects and plants[1] through living in a boat that contained two to seven of all animal species[2], and that all cultures are directly descended from that family.

I say, "prove it". Why is this plausible?
 1. wtf?
 2. what is a "kind"?

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2010, 02:26:11 PM »

Of course, if there was a global flood as the Bible describes, those other cultures shouldn't have been around to write flood stories.

If there was a global flood as the Bible describes, then those other cultures would have all come from Noah and his crew and the story would have been passed down in that way.

Really?  The Mongols, the Bantu, the Easter Islanders, the Anasazi, the indigenous Australians, etc, etc.  Just how did they migrate around, what is it now, 6000 years?  Or are you convenienetly making the "flood" some magical time that no one can really figure out so it doesn't mess with your myth?  Why are there cultures with no flood myth? 

There was no global flood. No evidence for it at all.  Why do Christians think it is fine to lie for their religion in the face of evidence?  Waht does your nonsense give as explanation for Neaderthals, which have things dated quite a long time ago: http://www.physorg.com/news182439329.html?  I love how the same science that supports dating techniques, evolution, etc, is perfectly fine when it makes you comfortable in modern life but ooh, if it shows you myths are wrong, the science is pooh-pooh bad.  Such hypocrisy.
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline omniweasel

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Death-Rabbits
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2010, 02:52:20 PM »
what is it with Enki and floods?

Offline C

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 429
  • Darwins +26/-0
  • Counter-Theist Taskforce
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2010, 03:19:56 PM »


Oooh, now I see how all the species of the Earth got into the boat and got properly taken care of by eight people.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 03:21:53 PM by C »
The Second C

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2010, 04:01:07 PM »

Of course, if there was a global flood as the Bible describes, those other cultures shouldn't have been around to write flood stories.

If there was a global flood as the Bible describes, then those other cultures would have all come from Noah and his crew and the story would have been passed down in that way.

One question fer ya. How did the ancient Chinese and Egyptian cultures manage to avoid the destruction of a global flood? These cultures have records that go back farther than Judeo-Christian societies.

Another question fer ya. Scientists have traced human DNA back tens of thousands of years to Africa, not to one family in the Middle East. If the Noah story is true, why doesn't the DNA show that?

One more question fer ya. Can kangaroos swim?  ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline velkyn

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 15420
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • You're wearing the juice, aren't you?"
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2010, 04:01:34 PM »
Oooh, now I see how all the species of the Earth got into the boat and got properly taken care of by eight people.
at least the tasty grilled ones  ;D
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

http://clubschadenfreude.wordpress.com/

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2010, 04:42:12 PM »
Please read it the whole thing the ending is important ;D

link?
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1630
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2010, 05:00:56 PM »
Quote
One more question fer ya. Can kangaroos swim?

Oh, I do hope someone sigs this. Can kangaroos swim? I would think not, but without google what do I know?
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2010, 05:16:31 PM »
Quote
One more question fer ya. Can kangaroos swim?

Oh, I do hope someone sigs this. Can kangaroos swim? I would think not, but without google what do I know?

Not sure about the google on this, but kangaroos would have to swim to get from the ark to Australia. Not to mention all the other endemic species on islands and in other hard-to-reach environmental niches.... and all the million other reasons that make the ark story impossible. Sigh. Not Noah's Ark again? :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline kevyrat69

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1209
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • oh rats.
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2010, 05:39:10 PM »
Dang you guys told me!! :o  I like to share these story's here because then I get a clear view of what is really wrong with these stupid stories and then I can really, really take them with a grain of salt.  I knew I would get some great flak from everybody that have heard it all and then some.  So thank you all I am not disappointed :P
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

whatever people are experiencing when they experience God, it's not something they're perceiving in the external world. It's something their brains are making up.
Greta Christina

Offline ReasonIsOutToLunch

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1630
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2010, 05:45:11 PM »
Well it turns out kangaroos can swim. I just had to look it up  ;D  But, they are not distance swimmers.
God, doesn't know pi.

Offline Count Iblis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1557
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2010, 05:47:55 PM »
This ship shape discovery was made by Irving Finkel, an expert in ancient Mesopotamia (now Iraq) at London's British Museum. While translating a 3,700-year-old clay tablet inscribed with Babylonian cuneiform script – passed to the museum by the son of a British Air Force man, who picked it up while serving in the Middle East during World War II – he spotted an "extremely exciting" reference to the ark's "circular design." This was a revelation, says Finkel, not only because he'd never thought of the ark as round, but because this was the first-ever ancient description of the ark's shape. Neither the Bible nor other Babylonian documents featuring the great flood offered any guidance of that sort.

Quite the opposite.

Gen 6:15   And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

Sounds like a rectangular base to me. Maybe there were two global floods that left no evidence behind and contradict geology and physics?
Religion is an act of sedition against reason.--P.Z. Myers

To find out more about the Evil Atheist Conspiracy visit http://www.atheistthinktank.net/

you know, hell is going to be so jammed full of lying Christians that I fear I will never get in.  --velkyn

Offline kenn

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Darwins +0/-0
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2010, 12:31:18 AM »


One question fer ya. How did the ancient Chinese and Egyptian cultures manage to avoid the destruction of a global flood? These cultures have records that go back farther than Judeo-Christian societies.

Another question fer ya. Scientists have traced human DNA back tens of thousands of years to Africa, not to one family in the Middle East. If the Noah story is true, why doesn't the DNA show that?

One more question fer ya. Can kangaroos swim?  ;)

I don't know the answers to any of those questions. Maybe science just has it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water?


Offline BlueBall

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Christian Deontological Anarcho-Capitalist...whoah
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2010, 12:36:31 AM »
Very very interesting. Not surprised by this at all. Makes me want to learn more languages, for sure, to see what else the organized Christianity ruined when it comes to original text.

Must...learn...languages.  :'(
Jesus Christ would not approve of Christianity today.

Offline Agamemnon

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4940
  • Darwins +15/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2010, 12:36:57 AM »
Maybe science just has it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Maybe, but highly unlikely. What is highly likely is that the entire Noah story is a myth.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline BlueBall

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Darwins +0/-0
  • Christian Deontological Anarcho-Capitalist...whoah
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2010, 12:40:13 AM »
Well, I have thought about this with friends, and we could imagine perhaps part of the world being flooded, etc. Perhaps it was just a minor area merely the Mesopotamians idea of the entire earth. However, I don't know why science can be wrong. I can imagine that perhaps they are missing something and maybe one day a discovery can prove it, but to be wrong when they have nothing to even show? Really?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 12:43:43 AM by BlueBall »
Jesus Christ would not approve of Christianity today.

Offline Agamemnon

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4940
  • Darwins +15/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: New Noah's ark story
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2010, 12:46:16 AM »
There are lots of flood myths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell