Author Topic: Troll control...  (Read 2902 times)

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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Troll control...
« on: January 06, 2010, 05:08:52 PM »
Is it just me, or are more creationists coming here merely to fulfil their course requirements?

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/so_thats_where_some_of_our_tro.php
http://www.richarddawkins.net/articles/4149

quote from there:
Quote
you will notice that, at both undergrad and masters level, there are courses for which 20% of the final marks come from having made 10 posts defending ID on ‘hostile’ websites


In the last couple of weeks, we've had posters like Breckmin and Smartnoodles, who join up and engage with one thread for 20/30 posts, and then disappear...

There have been others.

These people are trolls by definition; they're wasting our time.

Can we do anything about this?

If the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary condones wasting our time, maybe we should waste their time? By applying for their courses and not turning up? Or something. I don't know.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:19:06 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Agga

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 05:35:18 PM »
Sup, Gnu.


I understand where you're coming from.  I completely agree that they're trolls.

That said, do you see any value in having a constant stream of creationists coming to the site to be proven wrong?
Do you feel me daaawg?

Agga :)
I've left WWGHA now, so do everyone else a favour and don't bother replying to my old posts and necromancing my threads.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2010, 08:19:56 PM »
Quote
That said, do you see any value in having a constant stream of creationists coming to the site to be proven wrong?

No, I'm happy for any religious person to come here and sincerely argue their case...

But that doesn't happen with these students. They talk for the sake of talking until they've written their 2000 words, then they disappear. Any discussion is fake, because of the hidden agenda.

Does anyone agree with me that these people should be discouraged from their activities? Mods? What do you think?

If you do... I have a cunning plan...

Gnu.



PS No really, I do have a simple idea to solve the problem...



Offline Narrow Mullen

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2010, 08:39:51 PM »
What's your plan, Gnu? I can't see how we can stop these people, as their intention for being here cannot be determined until it is too late.
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"

Offline Operator_011

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2010, 08:46:24 PM »
PS No really, I do have a simple idea to solve the problem...
Share, Gnu?
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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2010, 10:35:36 PM »
Make them swear an oath when they register.

These are by definition christian trolls; they are students at a theological seminary. Chances are, they take oaths seriously.

So, in the registration agreement, include a short but prominent explanation of why WWGHA forbids this kind of trolling. Then say something like:

Quote
If you are a Christian, you swear by Almighty God that you are not registering with this forum for the sole purpose of fulfilling an academic requirement.

It seems to me that some christian students would be deterred by such a requirement, ie they wouldn't consciously make a false oath in God's name.

As a back-up, you could inform Dembski (and any others) of this change in our registration requirements. He would then at least know that any of his christian students who subsequently submitted WWGHA posts as part of his course had lied on oath in order to do so. He might not be bothered, of course. Or, he might tell his students to stop coming here.

Waddaya reckon?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 10:54:19 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Operator_016

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2010, 10:41:06 PM »
Brilliant, Gnu.  8)
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Offline Operator_011

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2010, 10:52:12 PM »
Waddaya reckon?
Pure class is what I reckon.
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Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 11:18:19 PM »
I think it's a very interesting idea. Could be fun to try. One thing though:

These are by definition christian trolls; they are students at a theological seminary. Chances are, they take oaths seriously.

...Chances are they have no problem lying for God, either. We've all seen first hand how dishonest they are. What's an oath to a bunch of nonbelievers when they can rationalize that thousands of souls hinge on their passing grade?
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Operator_016

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 11:51:07 PM »
We've seen them be dishonest, yes.  But Gnu is suggesting that we make them confront their dishonesty on a conscious level.  It won't stop them lying of course, but it could plant a seed.  Hopefully they'll feel at least a little shame and wonder why they did it.
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Offline Narrow Mullen

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2010, 12:21:48 AM »
Hmm, sounds like an interesting idea, I think we should try it!
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Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2010, 12:31:15 AM »
We've seen them be dishonest, yes.  But Gnu is suggesting that we make them confront their dishonesty on a conscious level.  It won't stop them lying of course, but it could plant a seed.  Hopefully they'll feel at least a little shame and wonder why they did it.

lol, I dunno... Are they capable of experiencing shame? I have no evidence that they do...

j/k

I think SmartNoodles ended up having to confront her dishonesty on a conscious level.  I think it probably does plant a seed in some.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Agga

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2010, 07:26:24 AM »
But that doesn't happen with these students. They talk for the sake of talking until they've written their 2000 words, then they disappear. Any discussion is fake, because of the hidden agenda.
True.  But in doing so they provide argument that shows the weakness in the creation myth.  I like seeing a healthy supply of creation-argument failure.  &)


Quote
If you do... I have a cunning plan...
Putting aside my personal need to enjoy the failure of others, your idea has some merit.  Some of them will pay no attention to the clause, but some of them will so hopefully it'll reduce some of the trolling.

Smarties for Gnu. 

Agga :)
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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2010, 07:37:27 AM »
Have any of you watched VenomfangX videos?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2010, 03:22:51 PM »
Well, I'm pleased my idea has some merit. Unfortunately, we can't conduct anything approaching a scientific experiment, as we don't know actually how many of these trolls there are, so we won't be able to tell if amending the registration agreement has any effect.

But, amending it would be simple and quick, so what is there to lose by doing it?

Agamemnon, you're right that many Christians lie for God, and like Venomfangx they will continue to do so. But I still think that some Christians would baulk at lying on oath - in exactly the same way that many atheists may tell lies, but would think twice about lying on oath, for example in court - which is a crime, after all.

Looking at my wording again, I would suggest a change. Instead of:
Quote
If you are a Christian, you swear by Almighty God that you are not registering with this forum for the sole purpose of fulfilling an academic requirement.

... I'd replace by Almighty God with on your deity's name. First, because we're agnostics so we don't use capitalized proper names for imaginary beings; second, because using the word "name" echoes the Commandment which we are invoking: You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Gnu.

PS. I have been maligning Smartnoodles, by the way - she has returned to continue her thread. Apologies to her. (But Breckmin still seems a viable candidate.)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 03:27:58 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline Cashinc

Re: Troll control...
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2010, 03:50:22 PM »
My guess is that these leaders and teachers, whom must have vast knowledge of the Bible are knowingly deceiving these students.  The TV evangelists whom truly began their quest desiring to save souls, must have at some time ran across a contradiction or 1000.  At this point they made a conscious decision to either ignore it (the contradiction) or to continue the lie.

I found my truths by reading and studying the bible.  So if my Hillbilly High School Graduate brain can recognize the errors, then I believe that any Student, Teacher or Preacher whom has truly read and studied must come to the same conclusions. 

This being said, They MUST, knowingly and deliberately deceive the flocks, which means that they could not care less if their students ignore the same truths or have to use deceptive practices in order to fulfill the requirements of the class.


Offline Operator_A25

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2010, 10:54:50 PM »
PS. I have been maligning Smartnoodles, by the way - she has returned to continue her thread. Apologies to her. (But Breckmin still seems a viable candidate.)

It would be more accurate to say that she has returned to continue ignoring the tough questions. She is still a troll, in my opinion, and I am anxiously awaiting evidence to the contrary.
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Offline GetMeThere

Re: Troll control...
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2010, 10:48:50 PM »
Quote
If you are a Christian, you swear by Almighty God that you are not registering with this forum for the sole purpose of fulfilling an academic requirement.

I would remove the word "sole" from the above--it's only an anchor for rationalizing their way around the oath.

Quote
If you are a Christian, you swear by Almighty God that you are not registering or posting on this forum in fulfillment of an academic requirement.

A good series of posts, Gnu. This does correlate well with how SmartNoodles presented herself--her reference to Jenner seemed...pre-packaged--as if it were part of the course she was taking. Her link to the Discovery Institute's BEST foot--essentially the only "peer reviewed" ID article to get published also aroused suspicions for me.

It's now been 5 days since her last sign-in. Her last post to me seemed to ignore my points, yet it contained a lot of verbiage (and cabbage). That all correlates with the Dembski class requirement very well, it seems to be.

I THINK IT WOULD BE AN EXCELLENT IDEA TO FORCE THE OATH ON NEW MEMBERS.

Offline Operator_A25

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2010, 10:58:49 PM »
I can't imagine how it would hurt anything. If nothing else, it might even be fun...
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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2010, 05:06:43 PM »
GMT:
Quote
I would remove the word "sole" from the above--it's only an anchor for rationalizing their way around the oath.
Yes, it's redundant, isn't it?

And I still think that my amendment is preferable, which would give us:
Quote
If you are a Christian, you swear on your deity's name that you are not registering or posting on this forum in fulfillment of an academic requirement.


Quote
A good series of posts, Gnu.
Cheers, GMT.

Mod_A25:
Quote
I can't imagine how it would hurt anything. If nothing else, it might even be fun...
Cool. Three of you mods think it's a good idea, so what needs to happen to get it implemented? Will there be a secret meeting of the Inner Cabal? Possibly an animal sacrifice to the Great Brain?

I leave the details in your good hands.

Gnu.

Offline monkeymind

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2010, 05:17:13 PM »
FWIW I am for the oath.
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Offline Operator_011

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2010, 09:16:14 PM »
Cool. Three of you mods think it's a good idea, so what needs to happen to get it implemented?
Paypal.
Quote
Will there be a secret meeting of the Inner Cabal? Possibly an animal sacrifice to the Great Brain?
No. We use apologetics now.  ;)
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Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2010, 12:26:03 AM »
I guess that would be something you should PM an admin about, Gnu.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2010, 09:05:48 PM »
^^^

Done. The gods mods are conferring.

I am fattening a goat as we speak, just in case.
 

Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2010, 10:55:32 PM »
Hahahaha! The OT doesn't apply here, Gnu. Remember?

Admin 1 sent his only begotten moderator to us as a user and he died in the ER for our sins. ...Or something like that.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Breckmin

Re: Troll control...
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2012, 04:24:40 AM »
Actually,

I was "invited" to come to this blog/forum because of answers I typed on youtube.com and that
alone is why I came and answered questions.

(edit:  actually I should specify that "DL" posted what I posted on youtube here and sort of baited
me into this discussion)

This name calling of "troll" for people who come to forums and answer questions and engage
in point for point rebuttals is beneath all intellectual integrity.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 04:28:22 AM by Breckmin »

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2012, 04:47:32 AM »
Agreed.  Now, what does that have to do with this thread?
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2012, 05:56:14 AM »
This name calling of "troll" for people who come to forums and answer questions and engage
in point for point rebuttals is beneath all intellectual integrity.

I am sure that theists and atheists alike can agree that this is not beneath all intellectual integrity. I'm sure that there is something else lower, like theft, murder or Dancing With The Stars.


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Re: Troll control...
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2012, 06:00:40 AM »
Actually,

I was "invited" to come to this blog/forum because of answers I typed on youtube.com and that
alone is why I came and answered questions.

(edit:  actually I should specify that "DL" posted what I posted on youtube here and sort of baited
me into this discussion)

This name calling of "troll" for people who come to forums and answer questions and engage
in point for point rebuttals is beneath all intellectual integrity.

You do realise they were talking Christians who come here to troll and not that all Christians come here as trolls?
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