Author Topic: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces  (Read 542 times)

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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2015, 09:14:01 PM »
The hurdle I can't leap over is the fact that if there was an almighty wonderful superbeing out there who wanted us to know all about him/her/it, we would know all about him. Simple. It would not matter where you lived, or during what time period, or what language you spoke, or how intelligent you were, or how many books you owned, or how well you could chop logic, or whether or not you had parents who had the correct religious view.

Everyone, everywhere, from birth, would be able to access the knowledge of this being, because that is what this being would make happen.

There would not be other competing made-up gods with just as much reason to think they exist as the real one. There would not be thousands of different religions with millions of adherents who all think their sun god, war god, volcano god, monkey god, feathered serpent god, or many-armed woman on a lion god was just as plausible as the real one.

I have asked Christians how a group of people all alone, isolated on a deserted island or in the forest or in a mountain village who had never heard of Christianity would come to know about their god or Jesus. I have yet to get an answer other than a person has to physically come there and tell them about their god, or a bible has to wash up the beach, or drop from an airplane, etc. That goes to show that god himself is not going to tell anyone anything. There is no way in hell that dennis, dropped on that island with no prior knowledge about the bible or Jesus, would be able to logic himself to the mental place he is in now. He could not get there.

Not. Possible.

Because every single person on earth who has any Christian god-knowledge--including dennis-- got it from some other human being who got it from some other human being and so on. If you go back far enough, there will be someone who first thought up the idea of Christianity--maybe it was Paul, or whoever. But nowadays, nobody gets to know about Christianity just by god showing up and saying howdy. Why is that, Christian folks?

There should not be any need for all this logical wordplay. Words cannot create real gods out of nothing. Nobody should have to argue someone into believing in a particular god. The superbeing should not be sitting there waiting for each human to figure out, logically,  whether or not he was there. He would just be there. Obviously. Clearly. Unambiguously.

Since he ain't actually there, all theists have is talk.

Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline eh!

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2015, 04:24:27 AM »
dennis last post;

"Am I correct in assuming you think there are no absolutes, and that (all) things are therefore relative?"

stooping to bottom feeder presupposition argument, PP is meant to say yes, to which dennis replies are you absolutely sure about that for his big gotcha.

what a childish idiot trying to create a god out of word games.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2015, 09:11:41 AM »
IF THERE IS A GOD

'The theism is a reasonable position to arrive at'. At least as reasonable as atheism.

Not necessarily.  It depends on the evidence and our current level of understanding for it.  It was probably not reasonable for Aristotle to believe quasars, neutron stars, black holes or North America existed.  But they all did.  Evidence for them existed, but was not readily available or accessable to Aristotle.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2015, 09:34:28 AM »
Actually, I find myself agreeing with dennis - IF there is a god, THEN theism is a reasonable position.

That's a mighty big IF though, and given the lack of evidence, skepticism is FAR MORE reasonable by a significant measure.

Kudos to PP for the effort.
“Be skeptical. But when you get proof, accept proof.” –Michael Specter

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2015, 10:05:39 AM »
Just a note:

If our conversation continues, despite various frustrations, it will help me better understand at least one believers mind. I don't think he will convert me, I don't think I will convert him, but I am finding the conversation interesting in ways that don't show up in the words. So while those of you who can only watch may well be feeling all sorts of frustration regarding the claims that dennis is making, luckily you will all have dozens of opportunities to confront dennis or other theists elsewhere on the forum and there you can discuss such differences without having to deal with the limits of this one discussion.

If I stopped every time I got frustrated, I'd still be a virgin wonder how to get a girl to like me. Granted, I wish I was a virgin so I wouldn't have such a long history of suboptimal relationships, but that's another story. Right now I am interested in continuing this conversation, not matter how unexciting it may be to others. I promise to continue exhibiting my standard level or rage elsewhere on the site, and I'm sure I can count on the rest of you to do the same thing.

But I do hope that some of you like watching.  ;)
It isn't true that non-existent gods can't do anything. For instance, they were able to make me into an atheist.

Offline eh!

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM »
IF there is a god AND people knew about it for sure THEN theism would be rational.

the rest is just mind games.
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2015, 04:38:25 PM »
TMI, PP.  ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline shnozzola

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2015, 02:51:24 PM »
....... I can’t abide the misconceptions that are so pervasive.

Dennis, are you referring to the misconceptions about religion?  That is what I want also.  You say this after the terrorism in the Australian coffee shop.  If you have the right god, he is not doing s**t to help these religious extremists with social common sense.  Here in the US, the latest religious extremist, Christopher Lee Cornell,  was planning to attack the US capital.  He purchased two M-15 rifles with 600 rounds of ammunition.

Not a non-believer, Dennis - a believer.  Even in prison now, he asked for a prayer rug so he can continue praying 5 times a day.  How do you think those prayers are working out for him so far? What is HIS god doing?  What is YOUR god doing?  Nothing?

Of course his parents are mortified.

Quote
In middle school and high school, Cornell had been a wrestler, his father said. After graduation, he lived at home and was unemployed, not yet knowing what he wanted to do. "He very seldom left the house," John Cornell said.
"He's a big mama's boy, you know. His best friend is his kitty cat. There's no way he could have carried out any kind of terrorist plot," Cornell's father said. "He didn't even drive; he didn't have a car."
He had recently converted to Islam, which gave him inner peace, John Cornell said.
And he had apparently stopped cutting his beard. On his mugshot at the Butler County Jail, it's long and appears untrimmed.

Inner peace?

If his theism isn't helping, how about your theism?    Oh well, people say, it not the religion, it is mental problems - All of ISIS? All of Boko Haram?  All the Westboro Baptists?  All of Al Qaeda?  Who IS helping these people?  Christianity?  Where?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/capitol-attack-plot/index.html
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Offline dennis

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2015, 09:50:21 PM »
^^Snozzola

A good question.
You can argue that Christianity is helping by evangelizing in some of those middle eastern countries. I have some difficulty with evangelising to start with - but that is another issue. We are certainly not sending missionary to Westboro Baptists...

We are not doing enough. So what must be done and who must do it?

I am going to write a piece on religion & violence - for myself as much as anything - but in the meantime, it is a social issue that we must deal with - ALL OF US.

Simply standing on the sidelines pointing fingers and shouting at people that they are stupid isn't effective either.
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked. (Rev 3:17)

Offline dennis

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2015, 12:58:04 AM »
I did write my piece:

It is loo long to post here, but if you are still interested:  :-\

https://veritasdeivincit.wordpress.com/2015/01/18/religion-and-violence-and-just-wars/
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind and naked. (Rev 3:17)

Offline Nam

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Re: Commentary on Dennis v ParkingPlaces
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2015, 01:17:30 AM »
I did write my piece:

It is loo long to post here, but if you are still interested:  :-\

https://veritasdeivincit.wordpress.com/2015/01/18/religion-and-violence-and-just-wars/


You need to edit:

Religious warWiki
Quote
In their Encyclopedia of Wars, authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They document 1763 wars overall, of which Rich Deem On his Christian website claims that 123 (7%) have been classified to involve a religious conflict although this is not stated by Axelrod & Philipps themselves.

A Christian states that only 123 of them were religious. A little too biased, don't you think? Especially since the only others to confirm it are other Christians.

That's just one example of bias in your article.

-Nam
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 01:19:19 AM by Nam »
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