Author Topic: Ancillary Debate - HAL's Flawed Records Argument  (Read 1137 times)

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Offline HAL

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Ancillary Debate - HAL's Flawed Records Argument
« on: February 15, 2010, 10:30:25 PM »
Shoot, you want an even better "natural" explanation than aliens? You want to play that game with HAL? I got one.

All the historical records that Fran's scholars base the FMF on are flawed and wrong. Nobody alive today can absolutely tell me I'm wrong either, because none of us were there.

Wow, how easy was that? Way easier than aliens and it solves the problem completely. The scholars can even be let off the hook because they are using flawed records. It's completely natural and no matter how much you complain to me about it being incredibly unbelievable that these records could be all wrong, it's a natural explanation that solves the problem.

Yay. I win.  :D



Offline HAL

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Re: Ancillary Debate - HAL's Flawed Records Argument
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 11:53:50 AM »
Fran will come back and claim that your logic can therefore be used for ALL historical characters of whom we have only written evidence and deny their existence.  He'll talk about George Washington, I'm sure.  But to my mind you have already answered that one:

Let him, I've already considered everything, and it is a viable natural solution. He may throw a tantrum but it won't change the fact that I've presented a natural solution that can fully explain the FMF (which really aren't facts at all).

Let me be very clear here - In this solution, the scholars aren't making any procedural mistakes in their historical analysis, as opposed to other times where people have presented solutions that have the scholars making mistakes or introducing biases. In this scenario the scholars can make a perfect historical analysis (even though no group of people ever will) and yet the result will be in fact wrong, because all the records they used have flaws, yet present enough cohesion and logical flow so as to lead the historians to a false conclusion about what the facts are. No one can teleport back in time to say it absolutely isn't so either - that the records are flawed. See the difference?

If he starts whining about all history possibly being flawed, I'll just remind him we're only talking about the history as relates to the FMF - all history is irrelevant to my solution and I could care less. Only the history as relates to the interpretations that the Scholars take from the supporting (flawed) documents. Also, if flawed records could have effected all history, then so could the supernatural and so could alien visitations - all three explanations have the same possible side-effect to corrupt all Earth's history in ways unknown to us - you can't say the "effect" involved in the other two solutions couldn't have effected history either, and in ways we couldn't glean from historical documents. Since no one was alive beyond ~110 - 120 years ago, and if aliens are coming to Earth and messing around in the FMF scenario, we can't be sure that they weren't here to set up or modify historical documents (written, video, and audio too) for us. If beings from the supernatural realm are coming to Earth and messing around in the FMF scenario, we can't be sure that they weren't here to set up or modify historical documents (written, video, and audio too) for us. See how that works? It's a poison pill everyone has to swallow. Or, does someone have an alien or supernatural manifesto stating that they aren't allowed to create or modify Earth's historical records except for where Jesus & Co. are concerned? I didn't think so...

Summary -

Flawed historical records are a known natural phenomenon
Human error is a known natural phenomenon
Erroneous interpretation of history from historical writings is a known natural phenomenon
If flawed records (flaws which are unknown to the historians) are used for the interpretation of a historical event are used, the conclusions that are drawn for the events will be false, yet the interpreters will not realize this and think it true.

Conclusion -

My solution presents the natural solution to the natural explanation that Fran wants, and cannot be qualitatively argued as worse than aliens or supernatural, because there is no data available to make such an comparative qualitative analysis between flawed documents, aliens, or the supernatural, as relates to the FMF issue. That ability simply does not exist because we can't get the aliens to demonstrate their powers and collect data on them, and we can't test and verify supernatural effects and collect data on that. My solution contains known effects, and completely natural effects. The other two solutions contain unknowns - we don't know what the aliens can really do, if they even exist, and we don't know how to test and verify what the supernatural can or can't do, if it even exists, - yet strangely - these ideas with so many unknowns are being offered as solutions to the problem. Respectfully, in my opinion, mine is much better, because all the effects I use are known natural effects.

Bonus Points -

There is no law that says my solution (which can stand on it's own anyway) couldn't be combined with the alien solution to make an even broader scenario that also offers an alternative to the supernatural one. They aren't mutually exclusive.

I claim pure win, and I would like the moderators to place my argument, stated several posts above, and this clarification, in a new debate thread in this room to make Fran either respond to it or to leave it alone before this forum as he wishes, but leaving it alone will be tantamount to surrender.

Admin or Mod - can you please do this?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 11:56:07 AM by HAL »

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Ancillary Debate - HAL's Flawed Records Argument
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 12:59:33 PM »
Fran,

Are you interested in this debate? If not, please tell HAL so here.

Thanks.

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Ancillary Debate - HAL's Flawed Records Argument
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 04:09:59 PM »
This debate is closed. HAL's challenge was not met, so his hypothesis remains a possible solution to the FMF.

Thanks for thinking of this debate topic.

Closed.