Author Topic: WLC Style Apologetics Commentary Thread  (Read 47696 times)

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Offline Majesty

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WLC Style Apologetics Commentary Thread
« on: December 14, 2009, 06:32:53 PM »
Greetings.  This  is  Keith.  Im sorry  that  it took  so  long  for  me  to  respond.  So  you  accept  my  challenge?  Well,  i  accept  your  acceptance  lol.  My  only problem  is,  the  format.  I  propose  that  we  have  a  debate/discussion,  in  a  yahoo  chat  conference,  with  me,  you,  and  no  more  than  5  other  people.  First,  lets  come  together  and  agree  to  the rules  and  regulations.  Hopefully,  you  will  respond  to  this  ASAP,  and  we  can  get  the debate  going  soon.  Thanks  alot,  once  again,  i  apologize  for the  delay.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 04:13:58 PM by Admin 1 »

Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 06:37:08 PM »
Debate here. We have the facilities for uninterupted debate that a larger audience can observe.

Also, who the fuck are you?
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline HAL

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 06:37:20 PM »
I  propose  that  we  have  a  debate/discussion,  in  a  yahoo  chat  conference,  with  me,  you,  and  no  more  than  5  other  people. 

The debate can be done here much easier. It happens all the time.

Offline GetMeThere

Re: Hermes
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 06:48:45 PM »
Also, who the f**k are you?

ooh! I like debates that start out like that!

Offline Inactive_1

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 07:02:02 PM »
Hello,

I can set up the debate here and make sure it goes as planned with only the invited participants.

Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2009, 07:06:07 PM »
Oh!  Where do we get tickets?  I want to watch.
I will stop to contribute in this thread until some one shows up and seem to have brain. -- Master

It's a shame how you put your trust in theories that keep on changing. Bible has stayed the same for thousands of years [. . .]  -- Skylark889

Offline William

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009, 07:16:00 PM »
Also, who the fuck are you?

Going by the forum name - could it be God himself :?
Git mit uns

Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 07:18:14 PM »
I would like to know why you have a problem with the format.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Emily

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2009, 08:04:47 PM »
Majesty, I think a forum debate is more flexible. If either one of you close out of a yahoo chat session the conversation is lost to you, unless you are constantly keeping logs. On a forum it's more convenient because the discussion can go for days and weeks at a time without losing any content. It would also be easier to go over previously brought up points in a forum discussion than it would be in a chat discussion.  
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 08:07:46 PM by Emily »
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Narrow Mullen

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2009, 08:11:58 PM »
Why  are  you  spacing  out   your  words  so  much?

Sounds like a fun idea though, I'd love to be part of it! But I'm sure that'll go to the more senior members  :(
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"

Offline Agamemnon

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2009, 08:18:30 PM »
...It would also be easier to go over previously brought up points in a forum discussion than it would be in a chat discussion.  

I suspect this may have something to do with the preference towards the chat format.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.  --Bertrand Russell

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2009, 08:30:16 PM »
Greetings.  This  is  Keith.  Im sorry  that  it took  so  long  for  me  to  respond.  So  you  accept  my  challenge?  Well,  i  accept  your  acceptance  lol.  My  only problem  is,  the  format.  I  propose  that  we  have  a  debate/discussion,  in  a  yahoo  chat  conference,  with  me,  you,  and  no  more  than  5  other  people.  First,  lets  come  together  and  agree  to  the rules  and  regulations.  Hopefully,  you  will  respond  to  this  ASAP,  and  we  can  get  the debate  going  soon.  Thanks  alot,  once  again,  i  apologize  for the  delay.

Thanks for dropping by the forums.

If you can carefully consider your words, and retract them in a measured way when it's appropriate to change your mind, then I'd like to listen to those words.  I see no need to have a live chat, unless you think that the issue is that trivial?

Do you have any other offer?



Important:

I'm currently suffering from a cold and am not too sharp.  My one short term goal is to heal up well enough to be able to go on a family vacation that is due to start in a few days.

I recommend that if you want some quick action that you pick someone else.  I can recommend a few people if you are interested that will be amply challenging.  If you have patience and can wait, maybe we can have a top notch discussion at the beginning of the year?  I'd hate to disappoint, but the delay from when I posted my offer till now has changed the situation a bit.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline GetMeThere

Re: Hermes
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2009, 08:35:14 PM »
Why  are  you  spacing  out   your  words  so  much?

Old debating trick :)

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2009, 08:35:40 PM »
For reference, I think Majesty (Keith) is responding to this challenge;

Source: http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=50

Quote
Quote
Keith: Cmon now people, focus on the issues. If anyone think that they can take me on in a debate on the existance of God, let me know. I will be more than happy. If you cant beat me, then you cant beat [William Lane] Craig.

Hermes: I accept.

To start, I’ll state my position that the Christian deity Yahweh as described in the Christian Bible does not exist but that some other deities may exist and that I can be convinced of them given proper support for them.

Look me up on the WWGHA forums, and mention your message here, if this interests you.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

We can go over the ground rules first, set the question(s) we will discuss, then discuss them in as much detail as you wish.

If you determine that I am not a worthy person to discuss these issues with, then I have a short list of people who are more than qualified to do so and should give you quite an intellectual workout.

The next step is yours, but note that while I monitor this blog, I don’t monitor this specific thread. As such, please go to WWGHA and start the discussion there if you want to be assured of a response.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2009, 08:39:23 PM »
Why  are  you  spacing  out   your  words  so  much?

Maybe it's an artifact of using a teletype.   ;D
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline kcrady

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2009, 10:37:43 AM »
I'm willing to play, though I would much prefer a Forum-based debate, since it wouldn't be necessary to juggle everyone's schedules to be online at the same time.
"The question of whether atheists are, you know, right, typically gets sidestepped in favor of what is apparently the much more compelling question of whether atheists are jerks."

--Greta Christina

Offline Boots

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 10:55:45 AM »
bm
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline screwtape

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 11:21:48 AM »
bm
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Tykster

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2009, 11:30:07 AM »
bm....  *gets popcorn*
rhocam ~ I guess there are several trillion cells in a man, and one in an amoeba, so to be generous, lets say that there were a billion. That is one every fifteen years. So in my lifetime I should have seen two evolutionary changes.

Offline MonkeyDaddy

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2009, 12:55:18 PM »
bkmk  :D
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson

Offline HAL

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2009, 01:09:18 PM »
Debating on Yahoo chat is for me - unacceptable. We need a permanent record of the logical fallacies that will be exposed on the theist side in such a debate. If Mr. Majesty is so confident of his points he should want it all stored in a permanent record. We also need to take our time and be able to research what is said, all of which lends itself to the format of a forum, just as we have here. This type of debate is not something to be rushed through in a chat format. If it's held in a Yahoo or other chat format you can count me out.

Offline 13UnderTheGun

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2009, 01:13:06 PM »
I    Just    had   to   bookmark    this    thread.
The more we learn about the heavens, the more we realize that Heaven is imaginary.


LOOK GOD DOES EXIST AND IF U CANT SEE THAT THEN YOUR A STUPID RETARDED IDIOT WHO IS AN ATHIEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline xphobe

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 01:23:06 PM »
* xphobe pulls a beer, fixes up a bowl of nachos, and settles into a comfy chair.
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

Offline Dragnet

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 02:37:03 PM »
I suck at debate but I can spectate like crazy.
I am responsible with my actions NOW so I don't HAVE to be responsible for them later.

Offline Hermes

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2009, 02:39:45 PM »
I'm willing to play, though I would much prefer a Forum-based debate, since it wouldn't be necessary to juggle everyone's schedules to be online at the same time.

Thank you.

Keith, would you care to debate Kcrady on the forum here?  I can assure you that he is well informed and competent.  Additionally, the moderators can assure that the thread you discuss in will be managed in an even handed way and any interference will be kept to a minimum.
Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons. --Michael Shermer

The history of religion is a long attempt to reconcile old custom with new reason, to find a sound theory for an absurd practice.  --Sir James George Frazer

Offline Majesty

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2009, 03:54:11 PM »
Hermes,  thanks  for  accepting  the  challenge.  If  you  have  another  "pawn"  that  you  want  to  throw  at  me  who  would  like  to debate  in  your  place,  that  we  be  fine  also.  I  am  accepting  ANYONE.  Just  want  to  dress  a  few  things..

1.  The  double  spacing:  It  started  when  i  was  young  and  learning  to  type,  single  spacing  at  that  time  seemed  to  make  my  words look  all  bunched  up,  so  i  started  double  spacing.  Now  it  is  just  a  habit  that  i  cant  seem  to  break,  nor  do  i  want  to  break.  Its  what  makes  me  unique  IMO.  I  enjoyed  some  of  you  peoples  jokes  and  remarks  about  it.  Its  all  good.

2.  Why  i chose  yahoo:  First  off,  im  a  frequent  vistor  to  the  yahoo  rooms "detroit".  There  are  alot   intelligent  people  in  there  as  i  am  sure  there  are  in  here.  I  have  been  going  there  for  a  few  years  now,  and  took  part  in  many  debate/discussions  in  there.  Some  in  the  people  can  be  quite  rude  and  disrespectful.  Some  are  open  minded,  honest,  and  intelligent.  But  one  of  the  problems  i  have  is,  when  to  many people  want  to  talk  about  something  at  one  time.  The  majority  of  the  time  i  am  the  only  theist  that  is  in  there,  and  i  have  like  5-6  different  people  throwing  things  at  me,  and  my  fingers  are  working  extra  hard  to  address  questions,  claims, comments,  etc.  I  choose  the  conference  room  because  you  get  to  control  how  many people  can  sit  in  there  and  chat.  That  was  the  whole  purpose.  But  since  you  people  are  CRYING  about  doing  this  on  a  forum,  fine,  lets  do  it.

3.  About  myself:  I  am  a  24  yr  old  African  American  male  from  Detroit, Michigan.  I  am  in  the  army,  currently  stationed  in  AZ,  and  i  proudly  served  my  country  in  Iraq.   I  have  been  a  christian  all  my  life.  I  first  started  my  "apologetic"  journey  by  discussing  some  doctrine  issues  with  Jehovah Witnesses.  Then  i  started  getting  heavy  into  the  internet,  and  chat  rooms.  I  was  blown  away  at  how  many  nonbelieving,  bible  attackerss  that  were  out  there.  I  became  upset  when  my  faith  was  being  attacked,  sometimes  in  the  most  vicious  way  imaginable. People  would  say  many  disrespectful  things,  and  i  felt  like  i  needed  to  counter-attack.  It  started  off  with  me  defending  Noahs  flood,  and  so  called  bible  contradictions.  Then  things  progressed  to  me  having  to  dig  deep  into  science  and  philosophy,  after  debating  some  certain  individuals  who  seemed  to  be  coming  at  me  heavy  from  that  regards. 

4. William Lane Craig:  has  inspired  me  to  really  get  heavy  into  apologetics.  About  two  years  ago,  i  was  on  youtube,  and  i  just  typed  in  Christianity  vs  Atheism.  And  what  popped  up  was  the  Craig vs Zindler  debate.  I  sat  there  for  over  an  hour  and  watch  Craig  completely  demolish  Zindler.  And  i  was  hooked.  I  watched  Craig  soundly  defeat  many  of  his  opponents,  and  i  was  hooked.  He  has  put  out  enough  work  over  30  years  to  inspire  any  christian  and  nonchristian  alike,  and  i  am  honored  to  have  him  as  my  study  guide.

5. The  debate:  I  am  really  looking  forward  to performing  well  in  this  debate.  I  must  say,  i  will  be  using  alot  of  WLCs  arguments,  with  my  own  little  twist  added  to  the  mix.  If  i  dont  perform  as  well  as  i hope  to  and  "lose"  (deep  down  inside  i  know  when  my  opponent  has  gotten  the  best  of  me),  its  ok,  all  it  will  do  is  expose  my  weaknesses,  and  i  will  just  have  to  work  harder  on  my  weaknesses  and  get  better. 

I  am  really  grateful  to  have  found  this  forum (thanks Hermes),  partly  because  i  can  really  get  down  to  business  in  here,  because  it  is  a  lively  forum.  I  didnt  expect  this  many  responses  to  my  post.

On  another  note,  i  am  a  very  competitive  person,  and  sometimes  i  may  use  langauge  that  will  let  you  know  that  im  coming  for  your  head.  So  dont  take  offense.  My  aim  is  not  to  disrespect  anyone,  and  i  hope  that  you  people  are  the  same  way.  I  seek  to  bring  people  to  Christ.  He  is  what  this  is  all  about  in  my  eyes.  If  there  were  no  Christ,  i  wouldnt  be on  here.
 
 But  what  i  have  noticed  is  that  some  of  you people  are  very  sarcastic,  which  is  fine,  but  i  can  dish  out  some  things  to,  and  please  believe  i  will  keep  it  respectful,  but  i  am  no  slouch  either. 

 I  dont  know  what  would  be  easier,  to  keep  checking  back  on  here  periodically  so  we  can  discuss  the  debate  format,  or,  to  give  you  guys  my  email,  which  is  pharaoh828@yahoo.com,  and  to  have  someone  email  me  when  we  are  ready  to  discuss  it.  I  guess  either  or  will  be  find,  i  will  start  checking  periodially. 

So  once  again,  i  want  to  thank  you people  for  your  time.  It  is  ON.  My  goal  is  to  take  each  nonbeliever  on  here  OUT,  one  by  one.  Be  ready.

Offline Majesty

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2009, 03:55:35 PM »
Debate here. We have the facilities for uninterupted debate that a larger audience can observe.

Also, who the f**k are you?

Who  are  you?  I  dont  know  you  playa

Offline Majesty

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »
Hello,

I can set up the debate here and make sure it goes as planned with only the invited participants.

SET  IT  UP  ADMIN,  SET  IT  UP!!

Offline Majesty

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Re: Hermes
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2009, 03:59:10 PM »
Oh!  Where do we get tickets?  I want to watch.

You  can  get  tickets  by  checking  your  local  ticketmaster  for  details.  Have  your  credit  card  ready,  and  wire  the  money  directly  to  my  account,  and  you  will  have  your  ticket.  For  more  details,  provide  me  your  email addy.  Your  money  will  be used  for  a  good  cause,  the  "Get  Keith  a  new  ipod,  cuz  someone  stole  his"  cause.