Author Topic: I don't understand why people don't believe in God  (Read 3970 times)

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Maryland

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I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« on: November 13, 2009, 06:08:14 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 06:11:03 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

I came to the conclusion that there is no gods because there is no evidence for any existing.  Most of the big things in the universe we can explain (where did I come from, where did my species come from, where did life come from, how did the solar systems and galaxies form, etcetera).  Why posit gods, specifically the Abrahamic ones, when there is not just no need for one but there is evidence against any specific god (outside of a deistic one of course).

Also, welcome to the forums.  Where you are you at in MD?  I'm in Baltimore.
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Offline IAmFirst

Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 06:17:08 PM »
Crusades. Human sacrifice. 9/11. Jonestown. Murder. Rape. Stealing. Lying. Cancer. AIDS. Leukemia....

Maryland, you are a typical cafeteria christian. WTF is that you might ask? "Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"

You have never read a bible. You have no inclination of world history in comparison to completely fabricated history in the bible. You have created your own personal Jesus with the kindness that YOU like and rules that YOU think are important.

Once you EVENTUALLY read the entire bible, you will see it is a guide to immorality, to hatred, to stereotyping, to segregation, to sacrifice.

I will remind you now that you are absolutely sinning, especially if you are a woman. If you don't know where I'm getting this from, the prosecution rests and you definitely are a cafeteria christian.

Good luck in this forum, and welcome. :)
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 06:20:18 PM »
You can see his creation everywhere,

I see no indication that it is some entity's "creation".  I see plenty of evidence that it is the result of physical processes.

you can feel that he exists

This is awfully presumptuous of you.  And false.  Why do you make this assumption about the feelings of others?

Would you like it if, say, I presumed that you believe in your deity purely out of fear of Hell?  Probably not.  So why do you make a prejudiced claim about how others feel?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:23:50 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline Emily

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 06:20:59 PM »
Welcome to the site!

I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Where about can we see his creation? Can you give examples? And what leads you believe it was caused by god and not something more natural? (such as [this evidence for his creation] just happening without a creator...)

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Offline Bumblesquee

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »
We do not believe in your god for the same reason you don't believe in Agni, fairies or invisible orbital space teapots.

Personally I was never "led" to my current beliefs (or lack thereof). I've never believed any of it.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 06:25:23 PM by Bumblesquee »
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Offline PeterRabbit

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 06:23:53 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God.

I don't see how you don't believe in Luke Skywalker. He taught me the ways of the Force!

Offline Cynic

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 06:30:36 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

There is no evidence for such a thing. There is no evidence that the universe was "created". For me god is as plausible as the loch ness monster or an invisible pink unicorn because of this.
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Offline Omen

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 06:33:20 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God.

I dont see how you don't believe in the Marflarg!

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You can see his creation everywhere,

You can see his marshmellows, graham crackers, and chocolate everywhere.

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you can feel that he exists,

You can feel his marflargy tenderness and deliciousness.

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and still you don't see it.

and still you don't see it.

Quote
Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Do you know what a Marflarg is? What place do I have in asking a question in which I presume that you do?  Why would I treat the "marflarg" as self evident?

Now, do we know what a god is? Nope.  What place do you have in asking a question in which you presume that I do?  None, this is a act of pleading and it is dishonest in that it assumes a position for the audience.  Why would you treat this 'god' ( whatever that is ) as self evident?  You shouldn't, it is no more self evident as you treat it then a marflarg is to you.

So why are you posing terms in which would require us to know what you're talking about both in identification and explanation, before you've even bothered to answer those two fundamental premises?

As to why I'm an atheist, let me be honest.

Atheism is meaningless to me, it is as meaningless as aunicornism is to you.  I assume you don't believe in unicorns, so what if I identified you entirely through your 'aunicornist' beliefs?  How could you ever identify perception and the depth of human character by using the identification of something that they lack a belief in?

So really, what I am is a human.  I need no other distinction or label, what I was before was a human who held silly emotionally dependent and irrational beliefs.  I realized that the things I was told to believe, were never really justified using reason, logic, or evidence.  When I bothered to look for it, I discovered that overwhelmingly the entire exercise of 'religious' belief was one of petty in group thinking encouraged primarily by emotional dependencies to superstitious claims.  Even the defense of those beliefs were an anathema to honest thought, often requiring someone to lie not only to others but to themselves. It was only inevitable that when I examine the claims critically that I discover that no reason to believe actually existed or exists.  The terms are often meaningless, limited to nothing more then just as you just got done doing.. baseless special pleading.

That is a short, if negligent to detail, description of my deconversion process.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Emergence

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 06:40:20 PM »
I haven't seen any evidence for the possibility of non-physical (or 'substrateless') consciousness or sentience. And a concept of a physical (or "substrate depended") god leads to absurdity.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 06:50:09 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

First, there is no evidence that this universe was created.

Secondly, even if the universe was created, who's to say that it was created by any of the gods featured in humanity's religious storybooks?

And you're completely out-to-lunch with "you can feel that he exists."  I don't feel any such thing.

As for what led me to my current beliefs, it all started when I read the Bible.
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Offline DaBungalow

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 06:52:45 PM »
Because there is no valid scientific evidence, whilst there is for evolution. I can't understand why you so readily disregard such a brilliant explanation as to how we came to be, for a 2000 year old book with nothing to back up its claims.  

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 07:08:07 PM »
I don;t get why we need another terminator movie, but that's just me.

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You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline Positiveaob

Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 07:10:49 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere,

First off, welcome to the forum.  I hope you stick around.

Seeing a beautiful sunset or landscape, or hearing the laughter of a child, etc., is no more evidence for a supreme creator in the sky than seeing a garbage dump or a pile of dog poop, or seeing a tragedy such as a teenager die in front of you in the emergency room, is evidence against the existence of a god.  Life has ups and downs, beauty and ugliness, times of joy and times of tragedy.  To quote Jerry Seinfeld:
 
"Life is truly a ride. We're all strapped in and no one can stop it. When the doctor slaps your behind, he's ripping your ticket and away you go. As you make each passage from youth to adulthood to maturity, sometimes you put your arms up and scream, sometimes you just hang on to that bar in front of you. But the ride is the thing. I think the most you can hope for at the end of life is that your hair's messed, you're out of breath, and you didn't throw up."

It is a pretty sad life if you have to delude yourself into believing in an imaginary invisible friend in order to appreciate the beautiful things around you.

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you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it.

How in the world would you know what I "feel"?  I dont feel any such thing.  I would venture to guess you dont either.  Just because you get a happy feeling when you talk about your beliefs doesnt give them any credibility.  Heaven's Gate cultists probably felt similarly just before putting the plastic bag over their heads.  When you convince yourself that you have an invisible friend that's going to make everything allright, it gives you a good feeling, a safety blanket.  Doesnt make it true.

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Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Be happy to answer you, but really a better question would be what led YOU to your current beliefs?  You didnt have them when you came out of the womb.  Did you arrive at them through rational thought after examining all the possible explanations critically?  Did the god you believe in appear directly to you and speak (I'm not talking metaphorically, I mean did you actually see and hear him)?  OR...was it what you were raised to believe?

As far as what led me to NOT share your belief, it's not a particularly exciting story.  I didnt have some horrible experience or bad situation in life that made me turn away and now you can just make me talk about it and share and suddenly I am going to cry and see the light and be "saved", praise the lord!  It was pretty similar to the way I discovered there was no Santa Clause.  Basically I was raised christian and believed devoutly when I was a child.  But as I grew into my teenage years and asking more and more questions and getting more and more bogus answers, I realized the only reason I believed what I did in the first place was because it was what I was raised to believe.  And when I realized I would have believed differently if I had grown up in a different time and place, that pretty much did it for me.

Hope you stick around this site.  Odds are you've probably already left, and I just wasted a bunch of time with that post.  But we'll see
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 07:13:57 PM by Positiveaob »
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Offline Petey

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 07:11:19 PM »
Quote from: Maryland
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Substitute Ra, Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, or Allah for "God", and you will understand exactly what led us to our current beliefs.  To quote Stephen Roberts:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
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Offline superfly

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 07:28:39 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God...you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it.

I don't see how a new member of the forum could write such an arrogant statement. I never "felt" a thing when i was a believer. I guess it didn't take. Or, god decided that i wasn't one of the chose. After all he did predestine us to salvation.


You can see his creation everywhere


Your creator god has done a terrible job of creation. He should be fired, but that would be like firing a leprechaun for misplacing his pot-o-gold. Watch this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKqj-2JXZg[/youtube]



Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

I think that all of us who were once theists could tell you, in infinite detail, how we came to our conclusion that gods do not exist. I expect some will.
For me, suffice it to say:

I read the bible with an open mind and heart. That cured me of any god belief.
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 07:47:58 PM »
Maryland

Welcome

I more or less agree with every response you've gotten. Just add me to another who feels nothing of a god, and who is not entranced at his "creation" because other, much more plausible explanations, are available.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Dkit

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 09:02:26 PM »
Great answers.  I concur. 

Welcome to the forum. 
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Offline L6

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 09:20:57 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

I don't believe in God because the definitions of God are not consistent.
I don't believe in God because a given definition of God is usually internally inconsistent.
I don't believe in God because the world would be different than how it is if even one of these definitions of God were accurate.
I don't believe in God because any remaining non-contradictory definition of God yields a universe indistinguishible to one in which God does not exist, and is therefore irrelevant.

Define your God and I'll give you more detail as to why I don't believe in it. For starters, you call God a "he", implying both gender and personhood. You also say "he" is everywhere. This is all rather silly; are you trying to say that everything, including us--that we're all cosmic jizz?
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Offline Hermes

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 10:56:55 PM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

There may be deities, but not Yahweh -- the god of the Christian Bible is impossible.  Reading that book honestly and carefully, and comparing it to reality shows that to be the case.  I don't see how anyone can think otherwise, if they have done that investigation.

Agree or disagree, do you want to continue a discussion along those lines?
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Offline Narrow Mullen

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 12:32:05 AM »
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"
I call sig  ;D
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"

Offline IAmFirst

Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 01:20:43 AM »
"Oh, I'll have a slice of heaven, a side of personal guidance, but no Leviticus today, I like my shrimp. Now, I've accepted Jesus, do you accept Master Card?"
I call sig  ;D

Thank you. :)

And, Maryland, I'm truly not out to offend you, but with a generalized statement saying I can feel his presence and see his work all around me tells me you don't watch the news or read history.

Thinking that this fictitious being is a loving presence is evidence that you have only listened to peers, preachers and snake oil salesmen.

I would love to hear Maryland discuss the great flood from Genesis and show us how this shows love and wonderous works.
2nd of all, if all you believe in is peer-reviewed papers, you won't go very far in life...

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Offline voodoo child

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 01:30:48 AM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

never had a belief system to begin with, I found I never needed a god to be humble, I am happy just the way I am.

is that strange?  :?

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Offline dloubet

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 01:44:49 AM »
Quote
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God.

Please don't lie at us with your very first sentence, it's rude.

Do you believe in Zeus? Do you believe in Odin? Do you believe in Ra? No? Then obviously you DO know EXACTLY how "us lot" don't believe in god.

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Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?


The fact that nothing has caused me to change my mind.
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Offline Deelvrd

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 02:24:45 AM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Maryland,
They can't see...they don't feel.
Don't be surprised.
It is something God predicted.

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

And from Ecclesiastes...
There is nothing new under the sun.

Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2009, 02:32:38 AM »
I don't see how you lot don't believe in God. You can see his creation everywhere, you can feel that he exists, and still you don't see it. Can anyone tell me what led you to your current beliefs?

Maryland,
They can't see...they don't feel.
Don't be surprised.
It is something God predicted.

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

And from Ecclesiastes...
There is nothing new under the sun.

So your supposed god created a system where some people would never be convinced, and there by go to hell?  Wow, sounds like a pretty terrible creature you have there.
I will stop to contribute in this thread until some one shows up and seem to have brain. -- Master

It's a shame how you put your trust in theories that keep on changing. Bible has stayed the same for thousands of years [. . .]  -- Skylark889

Offline Aaron123

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2009, 02:33:16 AM »
Maryland,
They can't see...they don't feel.
Don't be surprised.
It is something God predicted.

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

And from Ecclesiastes...
There is nothing new under the sun.

It's funny you bring up that part.  Here it is in context(NIV):

Quote
10The disciples came to [Jesus] and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
   "Though seeing, they do not see;
      though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
 15For this people's heart has become calloused;
      they hardly hear with their ears,
      and they have closed their eyes.
   Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
      hear with their ears,
      understand with their hearts
   and turn, and I would heal them.' 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

In short; Jesus spoke in parables so that some people wouldn't understand him.  Hardly the actions of a man that wanted "god's love" to spread to everyone.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Deelvrd

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2009, 02:37:45 AM »
Maryland,
They can't see...they don't feel.
Don't be surprised.
It is something God predicted.

Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

And from Ecclesiastes...
There is nothing new under the sun.

It's funny you bring up that part.  Here it is in context(NIV):

Quote
10The disciples came to [Jesus] and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
   "Though seeing, they do not see;
      though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
   " 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
      you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
 15For this people's heart has become calloused;
      they hardly hear with their ears,
      and they have closed their eyes.
   Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
      hear with their ears,
      understand with their hearts
   and turn, and I would heal them.' 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

In short; Jesus spoke in parables so that some people wouldn't understand him.  Hardly the actions of a man that wanted "god's love" to spread to everyone.

Aaron,
You misunderstand...It isn't that he didn't "want" them to understand.  He knew they wouldn't...because of their deep-seated unbelief.

Offline DisdainDavid

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Re: I don't understand why people don't believe in God
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2009, 02:39:56 AM »
It isn't that he didn't "want" them to understand.  He knew they wouldn't...because of their deep-seated unbelief.

If your supposed god is omniscient then it would have known in advance that, based on the situation it was creating, those people would have deep-seated unbelief, and therefore it preemptively condemned them to hell.  That makes it a very evil creature.
I will stop to contribute in this thread until some one shows up and seem to have brain. -- Master

It's a shame how you put your trust in theories that keep on changing. Bible has stayed the same for thousands of years [. . .]  -- Skylark889