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Admin on 16 Nov 2006 09:00 pm

About this blog

WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com is a web site that explores the existence of God. This blog accompanies the site and explores God and religion in our world today. For more information:

667 Responses to “About this blog”

  1. on 20 Nov 2006 at 1:06 pm 1.jason said …

    why do you just say silly things and leave no room for rebuttle?

  2. on 01 Dec 2006 at 10:27 am 2.Steve said …

    Hello WhyWontGodHealAmputees,

    I like your website very much and agree with practically everything you have written, but nowhere can I find who you are. I realise that what you say is true regardless of who said it, but the same might be (falsely) argued of the Gospels, which are also irritatingly anonymous, despite having invented authors.

    Is there a reason for you to hide your identity?

  3. on 04 Dec 2006 at 2:49 am 3.Ann Wright said …

    I echo Steve’s comments precisely.

    As for Jason I so wish he had given us some examples of the silliness to which he refers.

    As for rebuttles, I for one would love to read some. Jason, perhaps you can go first. There’s room here….really.

  4. on 05 Dec 2006 at 4:50 pm 4.Ruud said …

    Highly interesting site. I haven’t read everything yet, but what I’ve read so far I agree with.

    I’ve had my share of discussions with religious people, and my personal experience has been that they tend to be stubborn in their believes. So, my question is: what are you actually trying to achieve with this site? I don’t think a whole lot of Christiana will (after visiting this site) say: “hey, he’s right, there is no God!”

  5. on 05 Dec 2006 at 9:52 pm 5.Peter said …

    Great site. There is nothing silly about exposing the foolishness of superstition. Too many people have died through the ages for religion to be given a free pass any longer. 9/11 is a testimony to the destructive power of faith. Why should non-believers like me tolerate “faith” when it has caused so much mayhem? And why can believers ask us to let them “live and let live” when they then turn around and advocate slaughter, slavery, rape, child abuse, and all those other things their Bible describes?

    Keep up the good work, but be prepared to feel the wrath of the superstitious!

  6. on 06 Dec 2006 at 6:30 pm 6.John Ralston said …

    It is a great site, which I am recommending to those I grew up with who somehow took the path away from secularism toward religion as I was going in the other direction. Seriously, there is something deeply disturbing about the new generation in the US and elsewhere actually being more religious than their parents. It wasn’t supposed to be that way, and I think it only happened because many atheists and secularists got complacent. Your effort may help claw some of that old rationalist space back. We can hope so, anyway.

  7. on 07 Dec 2006 at 5:39 am 7.Happy Evolute said …

    Ann

    btw Marshall Brain of HowStuffWorks fame is the author of the website.

    Steve

  8. on 13 Dec 2006 at 6:35 pm 8.Loi P said …

    Quote: btw Marshall Brain of HowStuffWorks fame is the author of the website.
    He is! OMG, I think I’m going to faint. :O
    It is somewhat weird that a man who doesn’t believe in God would believe that robots are going to take half of our jobs in 50 years.
    No offense, I’m an atheist too and I

  9. on 15 Dec 2006 at 3:20 pm 9.G L Morton said …

    I haven’t gone through all your proofs yet, but I’m a Christian and have spent years on a free online book that covers many and numerous attacks against God as well as being theology.
    There are many short articles dealing with science.
    If you want a harder target to deal with try my stuff.

    Book is at
    http://photosc.msspro.com/pic/theov1.htm

  10. on 17 Dec 2006 at 8:42 pm 10.Jonathan Moulin said …

    Fantastic site. I grew up as a baptist. It was a real nightmare. The hell thing is the most powerful tool in the christian brainwashing program. It is especially effective on children since a child doesn’t have the conceptual skills to debunk this gods final solution crap. Children are kept terrified by the hell thing .By the time a child becomes an adult it is very difficult to break away from the church. The entire emotional infrastructue of children growing up christian is warped.
    The baptist use the hell thing very well. At the end of the sunday church service which usually focusues on hell and salvation the pastor gives what is called the i”nvitation “.
    People go down to the front of the church, denounce themselves as sinners and cry. These emotional therapy sessions like this keep members bonded to the church .
    I have had to spend years working out of this christian mentalhead lock I was put in as a child. Things still surface in my adult behaviour which I realize is the influence of the christian brainwashing. I am glad I moved to France and don’t have to deal with christians any more. Keep up the good work with this site.

  11. on 24 Dec 2006 at 9:24 am 11.Akela_gay said …

    Nice! Happy New Year!

    hydrocodone

  12. on 28 Dec 2006 at 8:00 pm 12.Michael Brito said …

    and what about the God of Islam? Is he imaginary too? Or, is this just another attack on Christianity?

    You fools! I want to hate you but I can’t..I love you all and hope that fall, bump your head and wake up with some common sense.

    Stop by my site: http://www.michaelbrito.com. I poke fun at you left wing – anti christian types all the time.

  13. on 04 Jan 2007 at 11:11 pm 13.soldierdude777 said …

    after reading one of the articles, i see some misunderstandings in your arguments. first of all, God did say that he would grant what you ask for, but he also said that if you ask according to his will that he will give it to you (romans 8:28). god may say one thing in the bible, but other parts of the bible must also be taken into consideration.

  14. on 12 Jan 2007 at 7:00 pm 14.Robert said …

    Why can’t you people see that God does not equal religion. Everyone is staying inside of a little box that was created and designed by religion. You are trying to define god with dogma!?!?! The nerve of any Christian or any religion to think you could actually define god. God is infinite love. End of story. You don’t need to pray to it, you are it. The division is an illusion i.e. good/evil, amputee/healthy, light/dark etc.. They are all part of infinite love. Love that does not judge. Do you really think that infinite oneness needs to talk to a priest? Confess it’s sins? Heal amputees? It is all that! This website does just as much damage as those caught on the other side of debate. You are all caught in the box. Once you KNOW the real truth, you are free of religion and the box it puts you in. It has nothing to do with god. God is NOT religion. That is how you were raised to see him. Start thinking for yourself people. Science has proved everything is energy.

  15. on 15 Jan 2007 at 8:26 am 15.Beelzebub said …

    Wonderful website and great videos! In fact I would very much like to obtain high quality copies of all the “God is Imaginary” and “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees” videos, and would be happy to pay a reasonable fee for either a set of DVD’s or a download. The videos on YouTube are all Flash video and I have no way of burning them to VCD or DVD so I can send them to my fundamentalist Baptist cousin. :-)

    Please check out my own religion webpage at:

    http://ron.dotson.net/religion.htm

  16. on 18 Jan 2007 at 3:45 am 16.Hanneli said …

    Jesus loves you and He knows who you are! One day you will submit to His Lordship and you will use your wasted intelligence and talents for His Glory. I will not argue with you on what you believe in but God will move mightily to let you know who He is.

    It doesnt need intelligence nor education to answer your questions. Its all about knowing and acknowledging your Creator.

    Whatever you will say about Christians, it won’t change nor shake our faith in Jesus.

    Soon, you will have no one except Jesus Himself and He will still accept you no matter how much you slander Him for He is Love. Its difficult to understand this love I am talking about unless you yourself will experience it.

    Honestly, at first I was mad at you but God change that anger to love and understanding. I will pray for you and you will see God will answer.

    God bless you in Jesus’ Name.
    Hanneli

  17. on 21 Jan 2007 at 9:57 am 17.abc said …

    Thanks Robert

    You said exactly what should have been said.
    You seem to know something.

  18. on 21 Jan 2007 at 11:58 am 18.abc said …

    I felt sorry after reading the section labelled :most disgusting verses etc…My neighbour and myself took turns reading it to each other and felt so bad,felt like reading about violent ideas is also evil…We have some fragments of evil inside us too….When we feel we have been insulted/cheated we tend to retaliate with violence be it physical,verbal or emotional/mental.We should not talk or think about evil(i think we should skip reading anything that makes us feel uncomfortable and hurt when studying religious texts..Lets take only the good)
    No one will argue that we must love and forgive fellow beings for we can (isnt that God’s grace*) empathize and understand the miseries of others as our own(if we try to) and so love others as ourselves.
    *No offence intended.I am talking about the power which allows us to understand and feel.

    Lets think only about good…

  19. on 01 Feb 2007 at 6:36 am 19.theone said …

    Proof that god exits: go log into youtube.com

    type in: Jordan Maxwell, Michael Tsarion, New World Order.

    study government corruption and find the way and the light…..

    P.S. I like the way you people think, I’m gonna use your ideas as examples of disproving religons… but eye must say that there is a God.

    jag2lag@yahoo.com

  20. on 19 Jul 2008 at 2:47 pm 20.Sophia said …

    The whole question “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?” is very disturbing. Are you stating amputees are “lesser than” other people? Are you stating they aren’t “normal”? Are only people with all their limbs attached “normal” or “complete?” What an ignorant, cocky, stupid assumption! Handicapped and disabled people are just as – or MORE – WHOLE emotionally, mentally, spiritually, relationally and intellectually (the ways that COUNT) than many “non-disabled” people. The premise of this web site is pompous, shallow and thoroughly disgusting. Amputees are LOVEABLE and VALUABLE exactly the way they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise is missing some serious parts of their body – particularly in their brain! And they probably have no heart, either. Talk about people missing important parts!! I’ve found them on this website…

  21. on 19 Jul 2008 at 5:38 pm 21.Admin said …

    Sophia,

    Amputees are the same as everyone else except for one thing: they are cut off from “God’s miracles”. So the problem is with “God”, not with anyone else.

    Christians claim that God is constantly curing cancers and other diseases, reversing the effect of poisons, rescuing people trapped in emergency situations, etc. Yet, when amputees pray for the miracle of limb regrowth, nothing ever happens.

    This article will help you understand. You may have missed it when you looked at the site:

    Why is the question “Why won’t God heal amputees?” so important?

    This article is also relevant:

    Try praying

  22. on 20 Jul 2008 at 6:32 am 22.MIKNAKLES said …

    OK, so i swear to you by my last dying breath that i will hunt you down and kill you! if you do not belive in god, then dont. but do not try to deminish to others that he does not exist.
    yes there are scientific studies that “prove” he dosnt exsist, but for those who do belive that he does you are tearing what all in this world have little left of, and that is hope.
    leave it alone, i warn you. cause so help me i will hunt you down and kill every last one of you, not by the power of god, or what ever you want to call it. but on my own free will for the people in this world who do still belive, and have hope. cause it is one thing that this world has in common, hope.

  23. on 20 Jul 2008 at 5:34 pm 23.Admin said …

    So you are saying that the “one thing that this world has in common” is “hope”. And your message to the world is that you will “hunt down and kill” everyone who does not happen to believe the same thing you do?

    And the leader of the religion you profess to believe in is Jesus, who consistently taught you to love your neighbor, but also to love your enemy. His entire message was one of love, compassion and foregiveness.

    Spend a moment sometime and think about what you believe in.

  24. on 21 Jul 2008 at 2:12 am 24.Sophia said …

    Admin,

    You wrote – falsely: “Amputees are the same as everyone else except for one thing: they are cut off from ‘God’s miracles’. So the problem is with ‘God’, not with anyone else.” Really? God Himself told you that? I thought you didn’t believe in God. If you did believe in the Almighty All-powerful, All-wise and All-loving God, you would know that NO ONE is “cut off” from His miracles. If you don’t believe in God, how can you emphatically state that someone who doesn’t exist has a “problem”? That makes no sense.

    However, here’s something to consider: God knows what He’s doing, and hardship is required to produce HEROS. Think of Olympic champions. They become champions only because they go through years and years of extreme sacrifice and pain that most humans would never, ever go through. Are they the ones to be pitied? No! They are the ones we admire!

    Amputees and disabled people are God’s most powerful and amazing champions – if they will let Him coach them through their hardship.

    For example, my sister became disabled at 25 years old, after she was struck down by a serious, incurable disease. It left her with many severe, severe problems and she actually died on the operating table, but was brought back. The doctors told us she would most likely die within a year, but even if she survived, it wouldn’t be for too long: no human has lived with this disease longer than 7 years.

    Of course, all of us who love her and know Godprayed fervently for her. We honestly believed God’s plan was not for her to die young. Guess what? She didn’t die; she IMPROVED. And she’s already lived FIFTEEN years with the disease. She is a living miracle – the doctors have absolutely no explanation for why. Now she isn’t completely “cured” physically, but God has other plans than just having her jump up and dance off her merry way. He could do that, of course, but He has bigger plans for her.

    Through these past 15 years, like an Olympic champion going through years of intense training, she has grown spiritually, mentally, emotionally – far surpassing all of us who know her. Her life has been used to utterly transform so many people by her strong relationship with God, that we can’t even count how many people have been impacted and forever changed.

    Just one example: a burned out atheist drug-addict came to believe in Jesus through her, was instantly delivered from years of drug addictions, his burned-out mind was completely restored and he finished school (he was a dropout in 6th grade). Then he went on to become a powerful missionary in countries all over the world – and still is (it’s been several years now). Had my sister not been sick – yet powerfully alive spiritually – and invested in his young man’s life, he would be dead by now. But not only has his life been saved and restored, but thousands of people all over the world have been touched by his life: which is personal miracle by God.

    My sister said her sickness would have been worth it just for HIM, as well as the expanding influence his one life has around the world. Think about how amazing that is. It’s worth it to her. But God has bigger plans for her. He continuously brings people into her life, and she touches everyone who meets her in a deep way. No one can whine to her, “But you don’t know how bad things are for me. You don’t know what it’s like to feel hopeless. You don’t know…” They all keep their mouths shut when they hear of the intense things she has gone through. When she speaks of her deep relationship with God, and when the Holy Spirit speaks words of wisdom to them through her, they are deeply moved. They know they have had an encounter with a woman who has the Spirit of God living powerfully through her.

    You know, she wishes she had at least one day without pain, and we all still constantly pray that God will bring a COMPLETE cure for this rare disease. Regardless, my sister THANKS God for allowing her to become seriously ill because of the awesome and amazing things that have happened in her life. She said she wouldn’t trade it for the life she was living before. Do you understand how powerful that is??

    Sometimes God wants champions – not just babbling fools with all their limbs – and He wisely allows people to go through situations that will turn them into gold.

    Would you consider someone with a missing organ similiar to an amputee? My mom lost a kidney when she was 6 years old, living in a communist country when she contracted a sickness that destroyed her kidney & there was no medicine. She eventually came to America as an adult, and she has worked in hospitals for 18 years. One time at church, she was being prayed for the complete physical healing of her body – and 35 years later – God gave her a brand new kidney. Since she worked at a hospital, her doctor had taken several x-rays over the years, and when he saw the x-rays with 2 perfect kidneys on them, he was astounded and confused. She has 2 perfect kidneys to this day! God also healed her of an incurable disease with NO medicine – she was supposed to die in 6 months…32 years ago. Ha! Doctors have NO explanation – they see evidence of the disease in her and are always at a loss to understand how she is whole and well.

    Yes, God does powerful miracles all the time for His children. He can – and does – heal amputees and disabled people. But if He chooses not to, it’s because He wants them to be spiritual Olympic champions…heros…to be powerfully used by Him. God says, ironically, “My strength is made perfect in weakness.” That’s because when a weak person is displaying supernatural, unexplainable power, unshakable faith and deep trust in God – people can actually feel God’s presence in them and cannot deny that He is real. Whey turn their hearts to God, He is thrilled to embrace them and welcome them into a personal friendship with Him! That’s what He yearns for most of all: relationship with us.

    Those who the world labels “weak” are the most powerful ones God uses to reveal His strength. He loads them up with extra strength, grace, wisdom, understanding and love. They are truly blessed and deeply loved by God, and He uses them in unbelievably powerful ways. I’ve seen it firsthand – in my family and other disabled friends’ lives. God is too wise for us to “figure Him out.” How about get to know Him personally? You’ll find out how infinite He is…how incredibly perfect, wise, absolutely beyond comprehension or “figuring out.” And His love is beyond explanation…a relationship with Him is the most fulfilling, beautiful, unexplainable, incredible experience anyone could ever have!! Oh, how I love Him!!!!

  25. on 24 Jul 2008 at 5:03 pm 25.Cyclone999 said …

    JESUS IS REAL!
    Proof #1- God does give you what you need. So, you ask him for say…one Iphone 3G? God will probably won’t want that to happen, because that will be a temptation for you to be away from God.
    Proof #2- God does answer your prayers. Maybe you are just too stubborn to receive it because you don’t trust in God and you won’t expect an answer, and when you do get an answer you’ll think it is your imagination! Besides, maybe it isn’t God’s will to answer your prayer.
    Proof #3- Okay. You’re saying that there are so many gods, it really doesn’t matter. Look at it this way. There are so many gods, and yet you say ‘it doesn’t matter who it is, you’re all going to heaven’. Then why do you need so much Gods? I mean, if you are saying that every god is fake, well…then you are challenging every religious person in the world!
    Proof #4- God loves everyone, so why shouldn’t you heal him? If God wasn’t real, then you wouldn’t be alive! God loves everyone, and when you ask for forgiveness, he’ll help you!
    I can go on, but I’m sure the other christians here can finish this
    GOD LOVES YOU!!!!!
    Christians, may the Holy Spirit shine on you as we all use his proof against him to prove that Jesus is the one, true God!

  26. on 25 Jul 2008 at 3:34 pm 26.andrea said …

    cyclone, If God loves me, why didn’t he help me when I was losing my faith? I prayed and prayed. Asked for help like Thomas and nothing.

    and if Jesus is “real”, why can no one give actual evidence of oh, a healing from one of his follower which he promised, speaking in tongues, suriving poison? I’ve seen Christians claim such things but when asked for path reports, personal visits, they always vanish.

    and yes, an atheist challenges the existence of all deities. So do you, minus one.

  27. on 26 Jul 2008 at 3:52 am 27.helene said …

    andrea maybe if you tried to understand the lord by reqding his writings starting with page one of the bible in the old testiment and how much noah and adram (abraham) confided him maybe you would realize that the lord will not be challeneged… for guidence or to understand my blog helenegebler@hotmail.com – i am not judging you andrea i am just trying to understand why the lord would not hear your praier. amen.

  28. on 26 Jul 2008 at 6:46 am 28.Johan said …

    I must say that I like this website. Most of the people try to discredit God and they probably done it for years, so be it. The good thing is they talking about God yes it is bad but if it bothers you so much then somewhere in you you know He exsists. Because why do you try to make Him not true and spend time and effort to only proof your statements are correct. You probably try to be a christian and it didnt work out. I dont blame you because it is religion. You never know God or even try hard enough. Our world is all about (fast & quick as possible).

  29. on 09 Aug 2008 at 10:35 am 29.Jaz said …

    I immediately disliked this site when I saw it and decided to only find out what “reasons/proofs” this site declares about God. You see, what is really happening here is that you all are struggling. Struggling to fully understand what God is saying. I attempted to understand the proof #1 and was shocked at it. This man (whoever he is) is only taking parts of the Bible literally. When reading the Bible you don’t just take parts of it and say, ‘why doesn’t this happen?’! You need to read all of the Bible and follow all of it to fully be able to understand it. See here:

    “In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

    For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

    If “nothing will be impossible to you”, then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement “nothing will be impossible to you” becomes “lots of things will be impossible to you,” and that would mean that Jesus is lying. ”

    You must have the faith to pray! You, the untrue of heart, cannot simply ask for your selfish desires! You must believe in the Lord and yes, IT TAKES TIME. If you have faith, all things are possible.

    God has a path for everyone. If you choose to turn your back on him and ignore him, then that is YOUR CHOICE. He gave us free will. He is not a dictator who controls our every move. He has a path for us, but if we step off that path it is OUR CHOICE.

    Try believing in Him. Trust Him. And just for a moment, think about how great life would be if you had someone always watching out for you. Listen to some testimonies. Read the Bible. Then decide.

  30. on 10 Aug 2008 at 8:20 pm 30.Jonathon Allen said …

    I use to believe that jesus was not real. I even was brought up in the church and still went to church but did not believe. That all changed the day that I was in church and the people began to pray for this lady. Then out of nowher her leg began to grow. I know for some this sounds crazy but it happened. She was not a member. It was her first time at the church. Let me ask a question. If Jesus is not real and the people were praying in Jesus name, then who made the ladies leg grow. The Bible says his ways are not our ways, so why are we trying to make him like us when he is the creator. Thats like a computer trying to be human when it is an creation.

  31. on 10 Aug 2008 at 9:45 pm 31.Admin said …

    Jonathon Allen,

    Would you consider posting your question in the forum? The response might be interesting:

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums

    Thanks

  32. on 11 Aug 2008 at 7:44 pm 32.KingsKid said …

    As was pointed out elsewhere in one of the comments on this blog, atheism is a philosophical paradox. An atheist, by definition, is one who professes with absolute certainty that God (or “a god”, if you prefer) does not exist (as the author of this blog seems to be saying). In order to possess that absolute certainty, one must be all-knowing (omniscient). In order to be omniscient, one must be (a) God. If one is (a) God, then one would be most certainly cognizant of one’s own existence. Therefore, logic clearly dictates that atheists do not exist.

    Is it not more logical to say then, that (a) God may or may not exist? Or to say that if (a) God does exist, then I just don’t understand Him (Her), rather than to simply deny the existence of (a) God?

    I look forward to your reply/commentary.

  33. on 12 Aug 2008 at 12:23 am 33.Dhali Llama said …

    My kharma ran over my dogma.

  34. on 12 Aug 2008 at 12:27 am 34.Admin said …

    KingsKid,

    We would love to have you come discuss your point in the forum:

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums

  35. on 15 Aug 2008 at 6:17 pm 35.Ashe said …

    KingsKid:

    You said…

    “An atheist, by definition, is one who professes with absolute certainty that God (or “a god”, if you prefer) does not exist…”

    This is false. An atheist, by definition, is one “without God.” That’s all. It’s a lack of God. Do you understand the subtle difference between a lack and an outright denial? Certainly there are atheists who deny that God exists – these are often known as strong atheists or gnostic atheists (atheists who are personally certain that no God exists).

    Then there are those who lack a belief in God, which is not to say that they claim that there IS no God, but that they hold no belief in one. They may not say, “There is absolutely no God!” These are agnostic atheists – which is to say, they are still atheists, just atheists who do not proclaim to know for sure.

    The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in God. Beyond that, they may differ in degrees of disbelief.

  36. on 23 Aug 2008 at 8:48 pm 36.KingsKid said …

    Thank you for the response, Ashe, but you are making a distinction without a difference. Disbelief is still a belief. You said,

    “The only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in God. Beyond that, they may differ in degrees of disbelief.”

    Stating a belief or disbelief in God is, on its face, a profession of absolute certainty. Varying degrees of belief or disbelief are impossible. One either believes something or does not. It would be like a woman saying “I’m a little bit pregnant”.

  37. on 24 Aug 2008 at 11:52 pm 37.Dustin R. said …

    I’m a Christian, and I read every single proof in “God is Imaginary.” I’m not a stubborn person by any means, and I can’t say I follow the stereotype that athiests (I before E?) seem to put forth that in order for you to be a Christian, you automatically must be ignorant, narrow-minded, and illogical. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Bunyan, Deitrich Bonhoeffer, Francis Schaeffer. What do they all have in common? They’re among some of the greatest minds in history. Oh, and they’re Christian. C.S. Lewis even writes in his autobiography the fact that the conversion to Christianity prompted and fueled the imaginative and creative powers. Just because you believe in God doesn’t mean you’re a complete fool.

  38. on 25 Aug 2008 at 12:00 am 38.Admin said …

    Dustin,

    After reading all 50 of them, what are your thoughts?

  39. on 25 Aug 2008 at 12:43 am 39.Anonymous said …

    Can someone tell me if my message got through? Thanks

  40. on 25 Aug 2008 at 3:23 am 40.mdc said …

    I tried to write ya’ll but it didn’t go through so I’m trying again. I’m answering I think everything you said on you tube of Jesus is Imaginary.
    First off, Jesus is not Imaginary. There is more proof of Jesus’ existence than for me and you. Unbelieveing historians even talked about Jesus in their writings. Like Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian wrote, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call Him a man, for He was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to Him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles.” There’s lots of stuff like that.
    You said, “and now sits up in Heaven looking down and judging us.” You seem to have a wrong perception of God. You’ve probably heard this but the Bible says that God is love. Yes, He has His wrath too but if He did not judge sin He would not be a righteous judge.
    You said it’s ok to appear to people. That is true. He has appeared to people all over the world. But that doesn’t mean He’ll appear to anyone who wants Him to.
    When you quoted Matthew 18:19-20 about people agreeing on earth about anything, he is talking about believers. And when I’d hear that I always understood it to mean Him as the Holy Spirit, not necessarily in the flesh; although it could happen I guess. In 1 John 5:14 it says to believers, “And this is the confidence that we have in Him, that, if we ask anything according to his will, he heareth us…” According to his will.
    Another “fact” you said was Jesus is already here amongst us. I don’t know exactly what you’re talking about but the Holy Spirit lives in the Christian and is omnipresent. Jesus said, “I and my Father are one.” John 10:30. And I have been taught that Jesus and the Holy Spirit can be used interchangeably when referring to the Christian being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. No one fully understands the Trinity. We have finite minds. I’ve heard analogies like what is water? Ice? steam? or liquid? There is no sufficient explanation.
    Yeah, it may be trivial for Him to appear if that’s all you’re wanting. Maybe that’s a reason why He won’t(trivial).
    I remember reading something about Jesus’ enemies and the signs and wonders that He performed. That when the early church were writing down what they had witnessed, the enemies could have come forth and said, “No He didn’t do that cause we were there.” But they didn’t cause they saw it too. I also remember about Paul when he was before Festus, he said, “For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.”
    Ya know, you can come up with any reason to believe and not to believe, although I think there is no contest. I studied the Bible, Jesus, evolution, creation, philosophy, and all the major religions of the world for 15 years and other beliefs do not even begin to approach the Bible and Jesus. Some people don’t believe just cause they don’t want to. It has nothing to do with evidence. I remember a story about a scientist that said if Noah Ark was dragged down the road in front of his building he still wouldn’t believe it. And this guy’s a scientist; seeing, smelling, tasting, touch, and hearing; ain’t that what science is based on? Ridiculous, but he still wouldn’t believe. 2 Peter 3:5 says, “For this they are willingly ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water.” They are willingly ignorant. That is happening now. I don’t know why they do that but they do.
    I think that if you seek the truth, with the attitude of no matter what it is and even being willing to change your lifestyle, you will find that the Bible is true and Jesus is the only way to God.
    And what’s this about, “If Jesus were real he would appear to each of us.” How do you know that? God wants us to have faith in Him. In Hebrews 11:6 it says, “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently; seek him.” I remember this one song by Sting. Sting says, “Father if Jesus exists then why does He never live here?” John 16:7 says, “Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you: but if I depart, I will send him unto you.” I don’t think Sting reads his Bible. I remember another song, I forget the bands name but they said something like, “how far is Heaven from here?” Luke 17:21 says, “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
    I remember reading about Lew Wallace, literary genius, He set out to disprove Christianity once and for all. While he was in the middle of his second chapter he found himself on his knees crying out, “Jesus, my Lord and my God!” Well i guess I’ll send this. If you want to learn more about Jesus I would recommend Evidence Demands a Verdict volumes I and II, A Man Without Equal, and Jesus and the Intellectual. You can find them on campuscrusade.com(or org..not sure). That site has some of the best materials in the world; my opinion. I’ll leave you with my favorite quote, “I wish I could leave you my most cherished possession; my faith in Jesus Christ, for with Him you have everything, without him you have nothing at all.”

  41. on 25 Aug 2008 at 2:26 pm 41.Romans 1:21, 22 (KJV) said …

    “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…”

  42. on 30 Aug 2008 at 1:29 am 42.Ashe said …

    No, KingsKid, you’re still not getting it. I don’t think you understand the subtle differences between a lack of a belief and a denial.

    “Stating a belief or disbelief in God is, on its face, a profession of absolute certainty. Varying degrees of belief or disbelief are impossible.”

    That’s utterly false. Let’s say someone has never heard of God – if they’ve never heard of God, they have no belief in God. That is not the same as denying a God. That’s one example.

    There is a difference between a denial and a lack of belief. You must understand this distinction before any further points can be made.

  43. on 05 Sep 2008 at 6:46 am 43.Foolish believer said …

    How many people might have been prevented from being amputees? Recall “prevention is greater than cure”. I don’t think our generation has enough faith to see amputees being healed, but with God all things are possible – maybe some day we will see it! Thanks for the site and giving me the opportunity to build my faith!

  44. on 05 Sep 2008 at 2:54 pm 44.Armchair General said …

    So, while Christians are out in the world, making converts to the religion you hate so much, you’re sitting here in front of your computer, pissing and moaning to your peers and accomplishing nothing. Congrats on preaching to the choir…

  45. on 18 Sep 2008 at 8:12 am 45.Linda said …

    Let me just comment on the usual and tiring question, “If God is so loving, why does He send people to hell for enternity?”. which is also asked somewhere on this website.

    Yes, God sends people to hell but not without providing a way out first.I believe God has done all he could to save us when he send his only begotten Son to die for our sins. He died a slow, painful and cruel death because of us. God is not asking much from us, all he asks for us is to accept what his Son did for us on the cross and to admit we are sinners, live a pure life and we will avoid going to hell which was only meant for the devil and his demons in the first place.

    We reject what he has done for us on the cross and then complain about why he sends people to hell if he is so loving. How fair is that, people?

    Yes, he is a loving God but he cannot stand sin even if he tried. That’s why the Bible says he turned his back on Jesus when he was on the cross because all the sins of the world were cast upon him (Jesus) and Jesus cried in a loud voice, “Father, father…why have you forsaken me?”. This showed how much he (God) cannot stand sin to the point that he turned his back on his own son for those few hours on the cross. How much more for us humans? If everyone went to heaven regardless of whether they accepted Jesus or not, then what Jesus did on the cross was in vain.

    The price Jesus paid on that cross was much too high for people to be allowed to go to heaven for free.

  46. on 29 Sep 2008 at 3:56 pm 46.Anonymous said …

    I was brought up a Christian, and still have a lot of questions, but I really resent the way you’re going about this site. It is ludicrous to assume that because God doesn’t answer the prayers of an amputee, that He doesn’t exist.

    This site only proves that the one who created it (the “creator”, as it were), is a bitter amputee, and has lost all faith in anything.

    God does answer prayers–sometimes that answer is “no”.

    God bless you.

  47. on 06 Oct 2008 at 11:18 pm 47.Christ's Soldier said …

    Alright, whoever made this website definitely is entirely ignorant to the Christian faith. We are tested to believe in something, and to dash someone’s faith is an awful act to commit. If you don’t believe in Christ becuase you can’t see him…why do you believe in air? I can’t see air, and if you can with the naked eye, then kudos. All of your claims are absolutley ridiculous that involve scripture. Intelligent human beings have insight, and in scripture, a message is trying to be conveyed. But you must think about to truly recieve the fullness of the message. Read a bit more of the Gospels before you parade around in your own ignorance.

  48. on 06 Oct 2008 at 11:21 pm 48.Christ's Soldier said …

    O and by the way, the creation of this site is only helping me build upon my own faith, and I am now motivated to spread the word of Christ in more ways than I am now. God Bless you, because you have helped me see the light of Christ.

  49. on 09 Oct 2008 at 2:46 pm 49.Lo-ree said …

    I’m a born-again, believing, church-going, committed child of God. I have travelled the spiritual road for some years now. I know for a fact that he has done marvelous, wonderful things in my life, answered my prayers that I know for a fact were not just coincidences but an intervention of a greater and powerful force. There are times when I feel he is as close to me as the person next to me…then there are days when I feel he is not there at all. When I feel he is silent in my most difficult times. Those are the days I feel like giving-up and simply saying he doesn’t exist at all. When I feel like throwing my Bible against the wall.

    But then, I always remember what he did for me. Those days when he had seen me through impossible situations. The Bible does not promise a smooth ride, but it promises that he is with us even when we don’t feel his presence. And that’s what has kept me going.

    I believe in God even when he is silent.We may not understand how he works, but that does not mean he isn’t there.

  50. on 20 Oct 2008 at 11:41 am 50.Phillip said …

    There is one issue that all of you have missed. For those of you who dont believe I have one word for you. Death….. What if you ARE wrong. What if there is a God? What if when you die you stand before him and he says the words depart from me I never knew you. You will spend an eternity in a place the bible refers to as Hell.

    You see being a Christian is a great thing. There is no down side to it. But there is a down side to NOT being one. We ALL have to face death. Yes even you have to die. You can’t live forever. The bible is clear on that. You can say Christians are stupid and dont really know what will happen after death and thats ok…. because you dont know what happens after death either. Why do you get rid of the anger thats in your heart against God. Maybe then you can see the truth.

    I will pray for you.
    God Bless you
    Phillip.

  51. on 20 Oct 2008 at 7:25 pm 51.Severin said …

    50.Phillip said:
    “You see being a Christian is a great thing”.

    He also said: For those of you who dont believe I have one word for you. Death…..

    Do Muslims have the same right to say so (“You see being a Muslim is a great thing? For those of you who dont believe I have one word for you. Death…..”)

    Do atheists have the same right to say so (“You see, being an atheist is a great thing. For those of you who believe I have only one word for you. death…”

    Perhaps you will find they all have the same right, but than I have several questions for you:

    If you declare the same rights for Christians and for Muslims to kill for their faiths, what would be differnece between you and Muslims?
    Why than you declare yourself as Christian?

    I would like to know your explanaion also in case that you DO NOT give them the same rights, that would be VERY interesting!

    Have you ever heard any atheist to declare killing for believers?

    They prefere talking, not killing!

    Being an atheist, age 67 (facing my soon death not with joy, but calmly, being positive not to face any god after I die),I would NEVER kill/hurt you, or enybody else, for any reason, especially not for the reason that you believe what you please.

    History is crowded with killers in name of faith. We don’t need one more – you.

    Plese talk, do not threaten, and do not kill!

    (I excuse for my poor English, but I hope you will understand what I ment)

  52. on 21 Oct 2008 at 5:09 am 52.Simon Peter said …

    Severin,

    In case you have not realized, there is a difference between a threat and a warning. Would you consider it a threat if you were about to throw yourself in the ocean and someone says, “Be careful, there MIGHT BE sharks in there?”

    I don’t think so. Because whether it’s true or not, that person is trying to help you, not threaten you so it will be up to you to go ahead and throw yourself in the ocean and not expect to see sharks but you DID receive the warning.

    To come back to your question on whether Muslims and other religions have the same rights as Christians, Christianity was never the only religion on Earth. Even in Biblical times, Romans, Egyptians and other nations had their own “gods”, but that does not mean it was right of them to do so.

    The fact that the Bible even speaks of “other gods” shows that people do believe in other things besides the God of the Israelites but it does not mean they are in the right path. The way the Bible describes serving other gods still applies today….it describes it as disobedience and that’s what it is.People have simply covered it up and described it as “religious rights”. Make no mistake that other religions did exist in Biblical times but also keep in mind that all those other gods were known not to answer prayers as the God of Jacob, Isaak,and Daniel did.

    Why?? Because they did not exist.I have never heard of someone testifying on how serving Mohamed had changed their lives but I have heard thousands of testimonies about how the same God of Daniel and Abraham changed their lives and that’s were the difference is, some of those people were even converted from being Muslims to Christians and they said they have never felt such peace.

    Other people are entitled to believe what they believe, but at the end of the day the question is, which god really is more concerned with people’s lives and claims to love them? At least I know Jesus died for my sins so that I may have eternal life…what did Mohamed and all those other gods claim to do for me? they didn’t even claim to love me.

    You also mentioned that atheists do not attack Christians but allow them to believe what they want to believe. May I ask if that is the case then why does this website exist??

  53. on 21 Oct 2008 at 5:52 am 53.Simon Peter said …

    And by the way, have you ever heard of the saying, “tell people what they NEED to hear not what they WANT to hear?”

    Death is a subject that we do not want to hear but that which we HAVE to hear because the reality is that we have to face it someday.

    Yes, the possibility of hell sounds cruel and frightening but a solution has been provided for you to avoid it and it is the same solution that is being trampled with different feet on this website.

    You have chosen hell yourselves, nobody is threatening you with it and the fact that you have closed your eyes and blocked your ears and refused to believe it exists will not make it go away.The Bible (NOT ME) says you should accept the sacrifice Jesus did for you on the cross or otherwise face the consequences (fair enough, don’t you think?)there is no two-way about it.

    When it comes to God, there is no neutrality “Oh, I will choose not to believe any of that crap” the fact that you have chosen to ignore it does not mean it’s rules will not apply to to you. There is only one truth. Accept what God lovingly did for you on the cross or face hell like anybody else who chooses to ignore him. Simple…that’s the rule …period.

    I repeat-accept what Jesus did for you or face hell!!!!

    Ouch, that hurts but you NEEDED to hear it, my brother.Jesus died a painful and merciless death (because of you) just for you people to come here and say he is a jerk.

    Funny that you should say people have died because of our faith because most people who are killed because of their faith are Christians, look back at history and you will know.

  54. on 22 Oct 2008 at 12:17 pm 54.Phileah said …

    “Jesus said, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off”

    Johnson says: “This statement is totally ridiculous on several different levels. First, something like a hand cannot “cause you to sin” — your brain causes “sin.” Every intelligent person knows that. Therefore, gouging your eye out or cutting your hand off is useless. If you have a problem with “sin” and you are going to amputate something to solve it, you would need to amputate your brain, since that is where all “sin” originates.”

    Johnson, Johnson, just listen to yourself. Let me ask you a question.

    If you were going to run a marathon and a friend says “Go ahead, Johnson, break a leg,”

    So you would think that person literally means you have to break your leg, huh?? So I guess you would also reason as to why your friend would want you to break your leg while you know you have to finish that race, “how can you run a race with one leg?” you ask. It’s the same thing isn’t it?

    An intelligent person also knows that Jesus did not mean you should cut off your hand literally. And the reason why he said “if your HAND causes you to sin cut it off” is because without your hands, you cannot do anything so it would be difficult for you to sin so he is still making sense even if he did not mention the brain.

    The Bible knows that every action starts in the mind. That’s why it says that we should be transformed by the renewal of our minds. Stop saying Jesus is a jerk, rather admit you do not understand his method of teaching.

    In simple, plain English, Johnson, Jesus actually means that if e.g your friends influence you to do bad things, cut off those friends from your life. Stay away from them because it is better to live your life without friends than to hang around friends who are no good for you. For goodness’ sake what is so difficult to understand about that?

  55. on 22 Oct 2008 at 12:27 pm 55.Phileah said …

    I also want to comment on one of those proofs that says Jesus used to say “silly” things to people like they should be like little children if they want to enter the Kingdom of God. When Jesus said this, he did not mean it literally being childish.

    If you have kids or have been around kids, you will know that they have total and complete trust in their parents no matter what. This is the kind of “child-like” trust that Jesus expects us to have in him. We forget that God is like a parent to us and would rather deal with our problems ourselves and we fail many times because we do not trust him enough. A child knows that his Mummy and Daddy will always be there for her.

    If a child is sick, he/she knows that the first person to go to is to his/her parents, if a child needs money, he/she knows that Daddy always provides. If Mummy or Daddy says you have to see a doctor, even though the child might not understand why he has to go to a doctor, he she follows Daddy to the doctor because he/she trusts him and knows that his/her father knows better and will go to the doctor anyways. That’s what makes children unique from adults. God wants us to trust him like little children, we may not understand why he tells us to do certain things but like a child, we just have to follow because Daddy knows better. Many at times, we choose to deal with our problems ourselves and fail because we ignore God and ask him too many questions instead of just trusting him.

    A child knows that his problems are not his but his parents’ to deal with. You will never see a child sitting and complaining about paying bills and where to get money because he knows that’s his/her parents’ problems. If he/she’s starving, he knows it’s his/her mother’s problem and he goes and nags her. If Daddy is swinging her in the air, she just relaxes and laughs because she knows her Daddy will never let her fall to the ground.

    That’s how God wants us to be with Him. But we make the mistake of choosing to deal with our problems ourselves and God just folds his hands and lets you have it your way.

    I want to tell the author of this website that he should not pretend to be dump and think Jesus’ words were silly just because he does not understand them and how he meant.There are also a lot of other stuff on this website that I would like to correct but I don’t have the time. Please try to understand the Bible before jumping to conclusions. At the end of the day, you’re the one looking silly. It’s like being in a classroom where the teacher says “You have to be as wise as a snake” and you (one of the students) literally goes outside and lies on the ground and starts slithering like a snake because you think that’s what your teacher meant. Silly.

  56. on 24 Oct 2008 at 11:40 am 56.Red O'Brien said …

    If God is a parent to us, he’s an absentee parent.

  57. on 24 Oct 2008 at 11:46 am 57.Red O'Brien said …

    Phileah, whenever Christians can’t explain a portion of the Bible, they say one of two things:

    “It’s not literal.”

    “We can’t understand God’s mysterious ways.”

    I might (stress “might”) agree that the language isn’t literal when Jesus talks about moving mountains, but when he says to cut off your hand, that is absolutely not figurative. If he meant to “cut off” your friends, why wouldn’t he say that? If God is perfect, why would he speak in a manner that could be misinterpreted? Obviously, it CAN be misinterpreted, because much violence has been carried out in the name of Christianity over the years. Still happens today. Jimmy Swaggart wants to kill gays. There’s video of him saying that.

    Same thing with hundreds of other verses throughout the Bible. You should be out killing adulterers, homosexuals, and rebellious children, shouldn’t you? That’s what the Bible tells you to do.

  58. on 27 Oct 2008 at 5:08 am 58.Phileah said …

    Red O ‘Brian said,
    “If God is a parent to us, he’s an absentee parent.”

    Not really.You see, you’re missing one part of scripture that says, “If you seek me with ALL YOUR HEART, you will find me”

    I wonder if you actually mean an absentee parent that we cannot see or the fact that he does not answer your prayers.

    God will not force himself into our lives. He wants us to consult him, to seek him through prayer and spending time meditating on his word. That’s the rule. Ignore it and you won’t see any results.Simple. Human beings are lazy to even spend half an hour praying to a God they cannot see.We want God to act like a magic genie, snap your fingers and he’ll appear.

    No, sorry, God does not work that way.Seek God through prayer, not just another lazy prayer that you whisper before going to bed, I mean spending quality time with him and then you will see results. The problem with us is that we don’t even care to do this and then we complain that he isn’t answering prayers or that he fails to show himself to us. How can he when you don’t even bother getting down on your knees for half and hour and truly trying to seek him? before you expect God to do his part, do your part.

    Like a father needs to spend quality time with his child, God also longs for that quality time with us.We all know if a child does not spend quality time with his father, they will not bond and they will not have a good relationship. With God, it’s the same thing.We have to admit that we do not give God enough time in our lives and the reason why he does not pitch up is a result of it.

    I have noticed that powerful men and women who are used by God have one thing in common. Ask them how much time they spend praying and reading the Bible and they’ll always tell you an hour or more.That’s where the difference is.

    Now you don’t even give God more than five minutes of your dedicated time (why would you when you deny his existence anyway) and then you want to come here and tell me he’s an absentee parent.It’s only reasonable. Of course he’ll be an absentee parent because YOU DO NOT SEEK HIM!!It’s like a teen kid who is never at home but the day he needs money, he runs to his father for money and then gets surprised why he’s father is being difficult.God does not believe in spoiling his children, all he asks of you to do is to spend a little more time with him besides the thanking him for the food prayer, whispering a prayer before going to bed routine…he wants more than that. And if you’re too lazy for it, tough luck.

  59. on 30 Oct 2008 at 6:51 am 59.Billious said …

    Hey, great to find this. Sad that the previous forum is dead. Any reason for that? Evolved into something else? ;)
    any posters from the previous forum still posting?
    Cheers

  60. on 31 Oct 2008 at 2:36 am 60.Live4God said …

    God is real. If you dont believe me then look around you. You think that the theory of evolution created all animals on this earth? Y would you believe that? You think the plants and tress and things like those just appeared of the Big Bang Theory? And the key word in those is theory. Hello!!! Wake up and start believing. There is a God and no matter how much “proof” you have that theres no God, it will not even be close to the powerful truth that THERE IS A God!!!!!!! I pray that you repent of your sins that you may be welcomed into the Lord’s arms and to be surrounded by His grace and mercy. and also its not that you dont believe in God, you dont want to believe in God.

  61. on 31 Oct 2008 at 2:38 am 61.Live4God said …

    Sorry but the post I added was for the website godisimaginary.com

  62. on 01 Nov 2008 at 8:38 pm 62.Severin said …

    Sorry, I was not home for some time, so I finish this polemic now:

    Firstly, if somebody says that there might be sharks in the water, it is a nice and kind WARNING.

    If somebody says “YOU WILL GO TO HELL TO BURN FOR ETERNITY, if you do not believe in me, and/or disobey my will”, this is NOT a warning!

    This is a direct threatening, calculated to frighten uneducated, brainwashed, superstitious believers to death, if they dare to think anything different from what they was told by church and authorities.

    Nevertheless, the “God’s will”, with no exception, turned to be a will of mighty MEN, who had a lot of interest to keep their citizens calm in obedience.

    Catholic Church burned to death hundreds of thousands of unbelievers. Was it a WORNING?
    Or you (all of you, Phillip, etc., who discussed my letter) deny history?

    Giordano Bruno was burned; Galileo Galilei had to deny his own researches, that are now days proven to be true, not to be burned. Thousands of people, even children (you have examples in USA, the “Witches from Salem”), were burned alive, with their pure hearts, with their wishes, dreams, joys, hopes…., just because The Mighty Somebody (originated from earth, not from heaven) would not allow them to think their thoughts, to speak their words, NO, it would change the world in which The Mighty Ones lived too comfortable to allow it to be changed.

    What an almighty, all loving god, would allow such sufferings in his name?
    What to think about such a creature (monster)?

    World DID change! Not quickly enough for my taste – but it did, and it is more and more rapidly changing!
    Not because any god permitted it, but because the free thought and free will exploded.

    Quote: “An intelligent person also knows that Jesus did not mean you should cut off your hand literally”

    I could answer: An intelligent person does not believe in fairy tales.

    I could also answer: If the Bible is so important, if it is the essence of morality and a life-guide for the man kind,why, than, did not Jesus tell what he meant clearly, but left you end me to explain his words. If ANYONE has to interpret such important words, why would such explanation be valid? Says who?

    Human lows are not perfect, but no lows, that should direct the human behaviour, are written in riddles: if there is written in Low that you will be killed if you kill somebody, that is clear, and everybody understands it literally, as it should be understood. It is not alowed to you and me to interpet the human lows, why would the mighty god alow us to explain his lows?

    Here again we are trapped in a typical, endless, vicious circle, caused by disregarding history, science and – in the first place – logic, and I have no will to discuss such things any longer.

    The question why this Site exists is as silly as the question why churches exist, why books exist, why schools,professors, newspaer exist….. It exists to enable people to say what they think and believe.

    However, this site is NOT DANGEROUS! It does not threaten anybody! It does not call for killing in name of any believe/non-believe, neither it threatens the believers that they will burn in some “atheistic hell” if they believe what they please.

    Healthy, free, NON-VIOLENT dialog is – I hope – now days permitted. Or – is it?
    If you have churches and Bible, and books and preachers, and many sites on Internet, why would I not have right to declare my opinion on this Site, or any other place?

    Without threatening and without HATE!

    Please do not worry for my soul, I do not have one! What I have is life and brain, beloved people surrounding me, and believe in good (not god!), and no god is necessary to explain to me the difference between the two. The explanation is built-in in my genes.

    I can not resist temptation to tell you an anecdote from my grandfather’s life, which I heard from him, when I was 12:

    My grandfather was born 1879., was catholic, and once he was about 14, was in church with his father. The year was rainless, and people were terrified by chance of lost of their crops.
    The priest said, hi will pray the god for rain, but if the rain comes, he would expect the congregation to contribute the church (in money, wine, smoked meat, brandy …) more than they usually did.

    My grandfather immediately pulled the sleeve of his father and whispered to him: Dad, if he prays, and the rain does not come, will the church give us some grain so that we do not starve?

    This is what I call healthy mind! Natural mind! This is a sort of mind that changes the world!

  63. on 01 Nov 2008 at 10:51 pm 63.Severin said …

    “No, sorry, God does not work that way”, says Phileah.

    Wow!

    Do you, Phileah, have a licence from god to interpret his words?

    If not, how do you DARE to challenge his will giving his words another meanings?

    If I were believer, I would NEVER DARE to challenge god’s will, trying to interprete (missinterprte?) his words.

    You say that god did not really mean that you have to cut your hands (although he undoubtly DID write it, as you believe!), and YOU, of course, KNOW what he really had in mind, and YOU are explaining it to all of us ignorants.

    Do you think he was stupid (drunk, ignorant, confused,…)to say exactly what he had in mind, so he wrote something else, and let YOU to interpret what he really meant?

    What if somebody else also has a god’s licence to interpret his words, and his interpretation differs, more or less, or completely, from your interpretation?

    How can we unbelieving ignorants recognize whose interpretation is valid?

    Please do not tell me that there arn’t thosusends of more or less different, or VERY DIFFERENT, interpretations of Biblical texts (god’s words!!!), all of them said/written by very religious people, true believers.

    Whose is valid?

    I admit I do not ahve any god’s licence to interpret him, so what to do, but to take his words as he wrote them! Literally!

    I do not like what I read, but who am I to challenge his will, NOT taking his words as he spoke?

    And who are you to interpret his will?

    Sounds logically?

  64. on 02 Nov 2008 at 7:49 am 64.Severin said …

    “In case you have not realized, there is a difference between a threat and a warning. Would you consider it a threat if you were about to throw yourself in the ocean and someone says, “Be careful, there MIGHT BE sharks in there?” (Simon Peter)

    As I already said, I DO see the difference between a threat and warning.
    Do yoy?

    WHERE in the Bible have you found something so kind and human, like kind warning: “Be careful, there MIGHT BE hell…”, or “Be careful, you might not enjoy heven if you….”, or “Your hands MIGHT be cut if you …..”(even as a worning, the last one really sounds ugly)

    There are NO such conditional kindnesses in Bible (god’s words ?!), but only direct (and ugly) TRHRETENS, and (terrifying) INSTRUCTIONS: You WILL go to hell if you…. (or if you do not…), you WILL NOT be prized if …., KILL the one who disobeys me, KILL the whole nation, icluding their children, kill ONLY their children, CUT your hands,…., SLOTER your son, etc.

    The meanings of the two sentences:
    “CUT YOUR HANDS if…”, and “I am worning you, your hands MIGHT BE CUT if…” are so different, that one of them MUST be a lie!

    Who is then telling lies, you, or god?

    Where did you see hem saying “CUT your hands…”, he really meant: “do not cut them literally, but do something else…”?

    Did you think he was drunk saying what he said, and expected somebody (YOU?) to say it a better way?

    Aren’t you frightem to death daring to interpret his words the way he did not REALLY told them?

    Be careful! I do not think god likes somebody to missinterpret his will!

  65. on 03 Nov 2008 at 6:22 am 65.Phileah said …

    Severine,

    What god are you talking about if you do not even believe in him? How can you say a god who does not exist’s words should not be misinterpreted? does it make sense? No, it does not and you know it.

    I’m sure the people he was teaching this message knew exactly what he meant, otherwise, why didn’t they question him on how he can expect them to literally cut off their hands? and why did’nt his disciples cut off thier hands aftewards since they were also sinners like you and I?

    In fact, if He did mean it literally, his disciples should have been the first people to amputate their hands but why didn’t they? and if they didn’t why didn’t he scold them for it? if his disciples (who were the first Christians) didn’t cut their hands off then why should we? and if we were commanded by Jesus to kill everyone who does not believe then why did’nt the early christians do the same? after all, they were supposed to be the example for the rest of us. if killing every non-believer was a command, I’m sure the disciples would have been the first people to carry out that task but they were not known to have killed anybody, they were the ones killed instead.Has it ever occured to you that people can have their own rules besides the ones God gave them?

    In the Bible, nowhere does it say that Christians should pray to virgin Mary yet the Catholic people pray to her. That is their own rule, God never asked them to do it. God also never asked them to torture and brutally kill anyone who does not believe, and just because he did not intervene does not mean he supported it.

    Just as he did not intervene when the early Christians such as Stephen were stoned to death, he also did not intervene when these people were being killed. God himself knows why he chooses not to intervene and who are you to question him? It’s the same thing when Jesus was being tortured on the cross, God did not intervene even when his own son was being tortured and he had his reason for it.

    You don’t honestly expect peace and brotherly love in a world that denies God and his loving kindness. The reason why there is so much hatered and shedding of innocent blood is because we have rejected the cross.

    Satan is there to make sure that all this blame is put on God because apparently he does not intervene but the reality is because people have turned away and want to continue in their sin instead. The reason the world has no love is because you have rejected God’s word and the consequences are just obvious. Let’s face it, the Bible says sin came in the world through disobedience and so don’t blame God for your own disobedience. As long as there are people like you who reject and want to destroy Christianity completely, you will not find any peace in a godless society.

    The reason why people fight over religion is simply because people have chosen their own too many religion besides God while there’s only meant to be one.

    That’s why there’s confusion.The more different religions there are, the more confusion, the more killing takes place.People are free to choose what they want to believe but they should not cut out confusion in the process.While the Bible clearly states that he is the truth, the life and the way, people ignore this and create their own ways and then blame him if confusion occurs.Yes, some of them are Christians who kill, but who says God supports what they doing? Christians are humans like you and me who can also make ungodly decisions.

  66. on 03 Nov 2008 at 6:59 am 66.Phileah said …

    Let me also point out that there is a difference between a christian and a believer. A christian is a religious person, a believer is one who has a relationship with God. Not based on religion but based on his love for God. Religion is a routine done out of duty…I have to go to church because it’s always been a family tradition…I have to pray because my mother always tells me to pray before going to bed…I have to read my Bible because my Mum always read it to me before bed time…

    That is what religion is. A lot of people mistake believing in God as a religion. It is a relationship. Religion is something you do because you simply think it’s a duty or because it is expected of you to do.A lot of people go to church and behave good on Sundays when they go to church but choose to live a sinful life the rest of the other six days of the week. That’s religion.Christianity is supposed to be a lifestyle…not a religion as people have made it out to be.It is for this reason that people are getting killed…because of religion and tradition.
    That’s why God will not work, because we serve him through religion and not an intimate relationship with him. He wants us to do things because we love him, not because we feel it’s a duty.A lot of people call themselves Christians simply because they go to church Sunday morning, they have turned Christianity into a religion. It takes someone with a relationship with God to know the difference. The Bible says many are called but few are chosen.

    This means that like today, a lot of people call themselves Christians but very few of them really understand what Christianity is all about and it is obviously not a religion.That’s why you see a lot of Christian churches eating people’s tithe money, ripping people off because these churches have not yet understood what Christianity is all about because they operate on religious grounds or sometimes they do understanad but they have decided to turn the Church of God into a money making business.They are under the impression that Christianity is just another religion.

    Please do not take an example of what happen in one church and generally apply it to all born-again Christians. Like I said, a lot of us are called, but few of us are chosen.If you say some Christians want to kill homosexuals, that doesn’t mean we are all up in arms for it. That’s their own opinions and own beliefs. Jesus did not command anything like that.

    In fact, if this was the case, he would have rejected Mary Magdalene the prostitute but he lovingly accepted her and did not judge her and this is the example that he shows for us to accept and try to help people like homosexuals. Homosexuality is wrong, but I believe gay people need help and prayers and not rejection and passing on judgment. Jesus set Mary Magdalene free from prostitution and cleansed her without passing judgment. He wants to do the same for gay people. I don’t know where this killing of homosexuality comes from.Religion maybe??

  67. on 04 Nov 2008 at 4:58 pm 67.Severin said …

    Phileah,

    Several quotes from Bible, selected within a few minutes, and directly copied from the Site http://www.studyjesus.com (“Bible Online”):

    1. About origins of Bible as god’s (“perfect”!)words:

    37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

    7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

    16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    2. About god’s orders for killing and destroying (ATTENTION! God likes gold and silver! And he ORDERS people to take sexual slaves!):

    17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

    15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

    7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

    10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

    17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
    18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day.
    33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto the entire congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
    35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: the entire congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
    36 And the entire congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

    17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent.

    21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

    24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.

    27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

    What in those quotes can be understood symbolically or as an allegory, or any other way different than what thay were said?

    What else, under sky, could one find in the words:
    And LORD said unto Moses, The man shall surely be put to death? To tickle the man? To kill him only “simbollicly”? What?

    What symbolism /allegory can anybody find in those words? What could be alternative meaning of this order?
    How else to explain “Put to death”, but “Put to death”?

    How can anyone say that the writer DID NOT THINK WHAT HE WROTE?

    So:

    1. According to Bible, one must have no doubt Bible was written by god

    2. According to Bible, one must not interpret god’s words, but have to take them as they were written, otherwise a believer does blasphemy

    In the Science of Logic, which I hope you recognize as a science, not as a fairy tale, there is the law of “Excluding the Third Possibility” (Principium exclusii tercii sive medii, or Tertius Non Datur), that says: No two contradictory statements may be right in the same time.

    Something IS, or something IS NOT, there is no third possibility (Tertius non datur, on this principle work computers, “yes”/”no” priciple).

    Either something IS white, or IS NOT white. If it is white, O.K., and if you say it is red, tan it IS NOT WHITE! Whatever alternative to “white” you may choose, than it is NOT WHITE any more!)

    The Bible IS, or IS NOT written by god.
    There is no other possibility!

    The Bible IS, or IS NOT right.
    There is no other possibility!

    If god’s words written in Bible are right, that fact leaves no room for any interpretations, otherwise the Bible is false.

    The conseqences of Bible being false, please consider yourself!

    Catholic Church did take “god’s words” literally for centuries!
    They brutally KILLED people who dared to think there was no god.
    They killed people even when they believed god exists, but had some different ideas about how the world functions: Galileo was burned NOT DENYING EXISTANCE OF GOD, just because he claimed, contrary to church, that Earth moves around the Sun.
    According to clearly written god’s will, if the Bible was right, they, who burned Galileo, were right!
    Galileo (and many HUNDRED thousands of others) did not obey god’s words and his will, and it was RIGHT to kill him/them, according to god’s will, and his direct orders.

    If you say else, you are doing blasphemy!

    Both sides (you on one side and Catholic Church on another) CAN NOT BE RIGHT, as you state contradictory statements (you: Bible should not be taken literally, Church: It must be taken literally!)

    And everybody believing in god, and believing the Bible is god’s word, knows well what the punishment for blasphemy is eternal suffering in hell.

    There is no doubt you are blaspheming, changing god’s words!
    Aren’t you frightened to death doing it?

    Dont you feel tremendous risk of changing god’s words, denying Bible?

    It is not to deny bible and not deny god!

    I DO feel free to criticize god and Bible because I am not afraid of consequences, as I do not believe there is a god, and do not believe Bible is god’s word. I do not feel ANY RISK, or any fear, arguing with, believers, priests, Bible, anybody, and denying there is a god.

    I DO NOT feel free to criticize my director, as consequences might be drastic, and might change my life immediately and radically.
    If I stood before public after a speech of my director, saying: Now, people, I will explain what the man really had in mind, what you think would happen? It would be immediate and dangerous RISK for me.

    Would you dare to do this? To publicly interpret your director words, and even deny he meant what he told, and change his words. Please be honest before yourself, not necessary to confess.
    It would be A TREMENDOUS RISK for you to do so, and I doubt you would do it
    .
    The point is:
    Deep in your intelligent mind, you KNOW there is a big risk to try to tease mighty MEN interpreting their words.
    But nowdays, in your country, there is no direct and instant risk for you for blasphemy.
    If you were born 250 years ago, you would NEVER dare to say god did not order killing! The god’s “legal” interpreters (Catholic Church) would kill you for blasphemy almost instantly (“almost” means: after long and painful torturing).

    Now you are sure nobody will kill you!

    What about risk of eternal burning for blasphemy?

    Ambiguous balancing between “Bible is right, and I am going to burn for blasphemy” and “Bible is wrong, so there is no god”, should be painful for yoy.

    I think that this dilemma is NOT so painful for you, and that you DO NOT feel big risk denying god’s words, beacause deep in your healthy, intelligent, natural mind you KNOW there is no risk, because there is no hell.

    Diffeence between me and you is only in that I brought my deeply hidden thoughts to concious level, and faced them with logic and knowledge.

    About your question:
    “You don’t honestly expect peace and brotherly love in a world that denies God and his loving kindness.”

    I honestly do not expect ANY BROTHERLY LOVE AT ALL!
    I think it is sick and pathetic to love everyon, generally.

    „Brotherly love“, even in the nicest families, turns almost olways to competition, and what to expect among people which are not really brothers/sisters.

    In reality they compete all the time!

    What I DO expect is TOLLERANCE!
    Tollerance brings peace automatically!
    Live and let live!

    What I do expect is possibility to make rules valid for anyone, and instruments enabling to keep those rules working.

    More or less successfully, man kind is going to this point.

    Being an atheist, I can say for myself that I have absolutely no hate as a general feeling, for anyone, in my mind (“my heart”), and have a lot of tolerance, so I can not be dangerous for human race.

    Fine feeling enabling me to differ god from evil is somehow (by nature itself, there is scientific explanation how, but it would take too much room/time to try explain, and I am not an expert for enetic, but I did understand and accept it)) “installed” deeply in my mind (“my heart”).

    So is the case with my daughter: she has ABSOLUTELY NO RELIGIOUS EDUCATION; she never went to church in her life and never read Bible (but she graduated mathematics, and is very good in this science).
    And she is such a wonderful creature: one who finds god the source of all good, could think that god personally made her. A very religious lady, friend of my family, told exactly so once, knowing my daughter for yeras.

    I know many people like us (me and my daughter), and I see clearly we will survive without religion/Bible/god.

    Better to say: in spite of religion and Bible.

    I am ending this polemic; I have nothing else to say.

  68. on 04 Nov 2008 at 5:07 pm 68.Severin said …

    “It is not to deny bible and not deny god!”

    Error! Should be: “It is not possible to deny Bible and not deny god”

  69. on 04 Nov 2008 at 5:13 pm 69.Severin said …

    “Fine feeling enabling me to differ god from evil is …”

    Error! Should write “… good from evil …”

  70. on 05 Nov 2008 at 6:25 am 70.Phileah said …

    Severine, thanks for your very long speech, I enjoyed every month of it.

    What I can say is that Hurray, there is NO GOD!!! Let’s celebrate, let’s drink the night away.We can pretty much do what we like because there is NO ONE to call us to account for it!!! What greate news!! We don’t need to follow what that silly book called the Bibl, we are people with our own rights and wills.

    The Catholic church represents God and whatever they do, we conclude it’s an action from God even if we do not think twice that these people might be operating under their human nature…which is sin!

    We take old things from the “OLD TESTAMENT” which the Bible says does not apply to us anymore, we ignore that, and we still take actions from the OLD TESTAMENT and question why God did this or that in the OLD TESTAMENT. We have not yet understood why Christ came in the NEW TESTAMENT and so we just mix up the OLD and the NEW testament because they are one and the same thing to us.We do not understand what the Bible means by the Old Laws that have been broken and we still apply it to our lives, causing even more confusion.

    Who says we should not have sex before marriage when I can have sex anytime I please with anyone I like? Consequences of sex before marriage? who cares if I have STD’s or AIDS? Who says young people should obey their parents when they can go out, drink and get pregnant any time they feel like it. Oh, and if the young girls get pregnant because of sex before marriage and they do not need the baby, abortion is the solution, yeah, that’s right…it’s their right afterall.Those evil Christians are murderering thousands but when it comes to the support of abortion, it does not really matter because it’s their right to kill those babies. Hundred of teens resort to violence and unacceptable behavior simply because there is no God to fear, what great news!!

    Brotherly love?? who needs brotherly love. Everyone knows that brotherly love is impossible. We’ll just use the excuse of what some Christians do to prove how fake the Bible is so we don’t need to do what it says.The idea of a non-existing god is really exciting because it means we can live or lives the way we please and the way we want without anyone dictating us.

    Life would be so much easier without the idea that there is a God who sees everything we do even in the darkness and knowing that I can cheat on my wife or husband without feeling convicted because there is no rule that says I shouldn’t. after all, where else does it say a husband should have but only one wife accept in that silly book.

    I want to live my life hating whoever I want to hate, cheating whenever I feel like cheating, lying whenever I want to lie, stealing whenever and whatever I want to steal, swearing whoever and whoever I want to swear, drinking whenever I want to drink and smoke whenever I want to smoke (and if it’s bad for my health that’s my business) without anyone threatening me of hell.I can get away with whatever bad thing I do without being threatened by those silly believers that I will be called to account.There is no one who created us, we are just results of chemical reactions that brilliantly decided one fine day on their own to come together to form what we call this magnificent body.Which means, there is no purpose for our existence. We are in this world for fun.

    We are born a little while and then we cease existing the next and that’s it, that’s what life is all about. There is no superior being above us who can regulate our lifestyles or tell us our purpose as human beings because we are here for the fun of it.Apparently a Saviour was send to die for my sins (what sins anyway? I don’t see anything wrong with me and the way I live my life).

    If I tell a lie every now and then, if I mistreat another human being here and there, so what?? there’s nothing seriously deadly about that. Apparently if I do not accept the ransom he payed for me on the cross, I’m doomed to hell. If his blood was shed for me, so what? Do I care?? It’s not my fault he loves me so much and I don’t love him in return. Who needs his grace anyway.What’s this shedding of blood anyway? I don’t really understand it nor try to understand it but I will not accept it.

    I will choose to reject his sacrifice without expecting any consequences on my death bed.If he wanted me to truly live my life the way he wants, why didn’t he make it clear in his word, I will simply conclude my own assumptions that he is a silly, stupid and imaginary God because he does not work the way I want him to work.Let’s try to prove how fake Christianity really is to make ourselves feel better so we don’t need to follow what their God says. Let’s look for contradictions in the Bible that we do not understand to make it look stupid so that people wouldn’t need to follow it.At the end of the day, everyone is an atheist and is happy living their lives the way the want.

    There you go, Severine,I finally understand your point. I hope you’re satisfied now…

  71. on 05 Nov 2008 at 5:09 pm 71.Severin said …

    Sorry, you obviously missed my point, but I have no spare months for further explanation, wish you all the best

  72. on 06 Nov 2008 at 12:48 pm 72.Phileah said …

    You’re right, spare yourself months of time wasting because you are never going to convince me on how one can deny the only God who created him, at least not after I have tasted and seen how good God really is in my own personal life.

    God is a gracious and merciful God, and just because you do not understand him does not mean he is the way you paint him to look.It’s gonna have to take a lot more to turn me away from him.I wish you all the best too, and I truly pray that you get to know him and understand him the way I do, only then, will you truly experience him in his fullest.

  73. on 06 Nov 2008 at 5:31 pm 73.Severin said …

    I somehow can understand why somebody needs god, but couls anyone explain to me why would any god need us (men kind)?

  74. on 09 Nov 2008 at 4:42 am 74.GotMooo said …

    The perfect omnipotent being was lonely. And that really is understandable, considering he was always alive before finally deciding to create us in his image.

  75. on 10 Nov 2008 at 5:40 am 75.Oh Yeah4Jesus said …

    Amen to that, Got Moo, tell them. At least there’s somebody out there who actually got Moooo-vement for God. I was beginning to wonder where all the warriors were in this spiritual battle.

  76. on 10 Nov 2008 at 12:55 pm 76.Oh Yeah4Jesus said …

    I have a question for atheist on this website and elsewhere. Does this mean you guys don’t celebrate Easter and Christmas? what do you do when the rest of the world joins hands in celebrating the King’s birth? you see it just as any other day right? why would you be interested in celebrating the birthday of someone who doesn’t exist? So I take it you don’t then?

    If Jesus never existed then stop celebrating Christmas and Easter because the whole world is celebrating the birth of a non-existing God and more than a half of them don’t even believe he exists but they celebrate it anyway.

    Why celebrate something that never happened? Please leave it to us who actually believe a savior was born for our sins and not as an excuse to drink more alcohol and shower ourselves with gifts with no meaning in particular.If the belief in God has to stop, then Christmas and Easter holidays must stop as well, at least for those who celebrate it for the sake of celebrating it.

  77. on 10 Nov 2008 at 7:11 pm 77.anonymous said …

    For thousands of years men of great intellect and eloquent speach have tried to expedite the demise of Christianity. Countless claims of the inaccuracy of the Bible or the fictiousness of it’s nature have been lain waste by new scientific and archaelogical discoveries,primarily by agnostics and atheists.Many having been converted when facing these discoveries and realizing in their own minds that there can be no other explanation than an intelligent creator.Irreducibly complex systems,the cambrian explosion,expansion rate of the universe,etc.You use many rationalizations to try to convince yourself there is no God,however it seems like a thinly veiled attempt to excuse the choices you make.God gives us free will because like any good parent he wants us to choose to love him ,not love him because we have no choice.You see the problem with your logic is that you can only perceive the world through your limited human mind. God being omniscient,omnipotent,and omnipresent certainly has nothing to prove to you. As a Christian I will pray that you gain understanding and wisdom and the peace that comes from knowing you are a child of the most high God and your father loves you!

  78. on 17 Nov 2008 at 9:29 pm 78.gigi said …

    the truth is out here

    http://ceritanyamifta.blogspot.com/

  79. on 17 Nov 2008 at 9:35 pm 79.gigi said …

    http://ceritanyamifta.blogspot.com/

  80. on 21 Nov 2008 at 2:19 am 80.Breadman said …

    I hope you have a few minutes, this could take a while. I am not smart, and only completed one semester of college (forever ago). However, fortunately you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to recognize a bag of baloney when you see it. I have watched your videos, and must tell you that you do not argue very logically. Let me start by explaining how you “prove” something. You start with a hypothesis, in your case that God is imaginary. You then move to making theoretical statements, which you do…such as God is imaginary, so he doesn’t answer prayer; God is imaginary so he didn’t create the world, people, etc. The final step, and the one that you leave out completely is THE PROOF. You must show that the theories actually work. Here is a simple example. I believe that gasoline is combustible. I theorize such because some of the components of gas are combustible. If I stop there, I have not proven that gas is combustible. Once I put a match to it, then I have proven gas is combustible.
    So allow me to try another proof. Hypothesis: The God of the Bible is real
    Theoretical statements: 1. If the God of the Bible is real, then what he says MUST be true. 2. If what he says is true, then He knows the beginning to the end. (Rev. 1:8) 3. If He knows the beginning to the end, then He must be able to tell us things BEFORE they actually happen.

    PROOF: God Himself actually gives us this test for being a “god” in Isaiah 41:23 “Show the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that you are gods.” Consider Daniel 9:25 (written over 500 years before the time of Christ). “Know therefore and understand, from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince there shall be seven weeks and sixty two weeks” (Hebrews deal in weeks of lots of things…here it is years, or 483 years to be exact). Counting forward from the order to rebuild Jerusalem, 483 years comes out, to the exact day, on the day that Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem, or what Christians call Palm Sunday. Consider the words of Jesus when His disciples were marveling at the majesty of the temple in Mathew 24:2 (written around 55 AD) “Assuredly I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” According to the historian Josephus, in 70 AD the Roman troops under orders of Titus Aspasian(sp? told you I wasn’t smart) came to destroy Jerusalam. A torch was randomly thrown through a window of the temple, causing it to burn to the ground. Titus was beside himself, because he wanted the gold from the interior of the building. Consequently, he gave the order to take the building apart stone by stone to have the melted gold scraped from each brick. Consider Isaiah 45:1&13. (written between 740 and 682 BC) “To Cyrus, whose right hand I have held…(you should read the stuff between vs. 1 and 13, cuz it is cool, too) And I will direct all his ways, he shall build My city and let my exiles go free.” According to the Babylonian Talmud, when Cyrus the Persian entered the city of Babylon after conquering it, he was met by Daniel who presented him with the scriptures you just read. Cyrus was so impressed that he freed the captive Jews and gave them financial incentives to go home. You can also read his proclamation in 2Chronicles 36:23.
    OK, enough of this, I could go on all day and bore you all to tears. If you want me to, I can come show you all kinds of prophecies concerning Jesus, or even one that predicts TO THE DAY when Israel regained its statehood in 1948, and when they reclaimed control of Jerusalem at the end of the Six Day War in 1967. I would like to address some of the videos I watched. Lets start with your one on prayer. Christianity.com did say that God answers prayer with “Yes, No, or wait”. That is not terribly profound. Given a request, we all give the same answers. If you ask me for $1000.00 I could say “Yes” (don’t hold your breath), “No” (way more likely) or, “Not this week, maybe next week. (Hold your breath for a week, then see answer #2). What Christianity.com did NOT say is that God answers that way BECAUSE He is God, or BECAUSE he answers that way He is God. The point of the article that I saw the quote in was to answer questions from people who felt that God had not answered their prayers (or more accurately, that He had not answered them the way they wanted them to be answered.) The leap made from how he answers prayers to qualifying Him as God because of it is TOTALLY DONE BY YOU TO MAKE YOUR INVALID POINT. (By the way, nice of you to “stroke” the listener along the way….”your a smart person, you must see by now….”. In effect you are saying that I am a dummy if I don’t agree with your point)
    This is running longer than I planned, so I will try to address a bunch of stuff less specifically, but hopefull adequately. You have several problems with the “laws” of God, calling them repulsive, cruel, inhumane, etc. There is no way to prove this next comment, but I believe that if we had followed God’s law from the get-go, our world would look a lot different than it does now. His premise, as He says repeatedly throughout, is to “purge the evil from among you.” The idea is that if evil is removed, only good, hard working, law abiding, God loving people will remain. Oddly, we still do the same thing in our country. Only when we purge the evil ones, we put them in cages and force the good ones to pay for their upkeep. That makes perfect sense, doesn’t it? Anyway, that point is moot, cuz we are not following His laws, and folks pretty much never did. Those laws were in effect right up through the days of Jesus, in fact. (See John 8:5) The Bible tells us the point of the law was to make us aware of our sin, and therefore aware that we are not worthy of heaven. The whole point of Jesus coming to earth is that He took upon Himself the punishment for our sins. We as Christians no longer obey the law out of fear of consequences, but out of gratitude to our savior. We are simply trying to please Him.
    Of course you have your own agenda to propagate. It is important for you to “prove” there is not God, because if there is no God then you are free to live your life as you wish without fear of consequences or judgement. Accordingly, you conveniently leave out of all your videos the permeating message of Jesus: Love others as you love yourself, forgive others as you have been forgiven. Since you like to think about stuff so much, think about this. If I live my life trying to love others, being giving, generous, kind, sympathetic, and helpful…and I am wrong and there really isn’t a God, then , so what? I die and pass into nothingness, and a lot of people benefited from my life. If you live your life doing as you see fit, feeding the desires of your flesh, always looking for “what is in it for me”, and generally looking out for #1, and you are wrong and there really is a God…you are screwed.
    Final thought. I drank the milk, crushed the carton and buried it in the landfill. Went back three days later…the carton was still there.

  81. on 28 Nov 2008 at 3:35 am 81.De Omnibus Dubitandum said …

    GotMooo said …
    “The perfect omnipotent being was lonely. And that really is understandable, considering he was always alive before finally deciding to create us in his image.”

    Oh Yeah4Jesus said …
    “Amen to that, Got Moo, tell them.”

    Are you serious?!? A perfect being would not be lonely. Perfect would imply without fault, and with complete balance. How can that conclude with lonely; lonely would be an anomaly and not perfect.

    But let’s ignore that huge fault in your “reasoning”. So… magic sky daddy was lonely so he made humans (but only two because he wasn’t that lonely, apparently) and then chooses not to fully and actively participate in peoples lives?

    And why make humans? Wouldn’t it more more sense to make something on a closer plane of existence, like angels? Oh wait, he did (Job 38:7). He made a butt-load of them, and they can communicate with him.

    So how the hell could he be perfect, but lonely, with a butt-load of angels?

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  83. on 06 Dec 2008 at 7:25 pm 83.Severin said …

    Breadman: “1. If the God of the Bible is real, then what he says MUST be true.”

    SO: If ANYONE is/was rael, then what he/she says/said, MUST be true.

    Why this “logic” necessaryly applies to god only? Explain!

    Is it that something is/was true because somebody exists/existed, or because you said so, or because you bolded your “MUST”?

    So Stalin, Hitler, etc., were real = what they spoke was true.
    Osama and his company are real = their words are true, etc.

    This “logic” is something like:
    “If the flower is red, then I MUST be 6 ft tall”.

    This is neither theory nor logic, sorry, this is ….

    Unfortunately, that is typical “logic” of people “defending” god from atheists: Everything they say MUST be true!

    Then:

    “Final thought. I drank the milk, crushed the carton and buried it in the landfill. Went back three days later…the carton was still there.”

    Really!? Wow!!!

    Why don’t you try it with 100 dollars?
    Perhaps you will find 1000 after 3 days!

    I forgot my car key locked in the car, and found it there after 3 days! Miracle! Glory Hallelooya! Only, I could not reach them without an expert’s help, as I had no spare key.

  84. on 06 Dec 2008 at 9:22 pm 84.Severin said …

    “I want to live my life hating whoever I want to hate, cheating whenever I feel like cheating, lying whenever I want to lie, stealing whenever and whatever I want to steal, swearing whoever and whoever I want to swear, drinking whenever I want to drink and smoke whenever I want to smoke (and if it’s bad for my health that’s my business) without anyone threatening me of hell.I can get away with whatever bad thing I do without being threatened by those silly believers that I will be called to account.”

    No!

    I want to live my life LOVING whoever I vant to love, TALKING THE TRUTH whnever I please, NOT stealing EVER, NOT drinking, NOT lying, etc.
    I have no hate, no need to lie, no need to cheat or steel, even no need to drink. Unfortunately, I do smoke, but, for example, I NEVER in my life even tryed any drug, be it “soft” or “heavy”. And I will not!

    More or less (much more “more” than “less”!) I lived my life this way!

    I never felt need to be threatened by hell or prized with heven to avoid lying, steeling, drinking, …I had a good life, NEVER lived on anybody’s account, never on enybody’s back, and I could say that the main “guidance thought” in my life was:
    Do not do to other what you would not like other to do to you!
    Be it another human being, dog, littering the street, whatever what could endanger another being (not only human!), or existance of life, in general (not only human, again).

    This simple “commandment” could replace all other commandments, including (poor!)god’s ten commandments. Find one to which this one could not be applied!

    This was the main rule in my life, and I never felt need for any god to tell me what to do or not to do.

    So I WAS A GOOD MAN without anybody’s guidance, except guidances of my parents (not religious), my friends, my techers, but before all – my helathy mind, which developed FREE of threatenings and promisses from “higher jurisdiction”.

    No need to be sarcastic in defending your opinion!

    Sex before marriage – oh, YES! And after marriage, and all the time!

    I, and tens of people I personally knew, have NEVER had any veneric disease, and regarding abortion, I know more ladies which had it DURING the marriage, than those who had it BEFORE marriage (please see statistics!).
    All those people, including me, were, EDUCATED how to handle our bodies, not to get any desease or get pregnant.

    There is a proverb in my language which could be translated in English something like: “Love for love (or sex for sex) and cheese for money”.
    So if two parts agree to have a pleasure of sex, being informed how to prevent deseases and/or pregnancy, what could be wrong in it?

  85. on 08 Dec 2008 at 12:09 pm 85.Phileah said …

    I really don’t want to post anymore comments on this website, Severine, for the very reasons that the people I’m dealing with here are hard core atheists and would need a little more than an argument to convert them, they need prayers, including yourself. So let me post my last comment:

    I was not being sarcastic then and I’m not being sarcastic now. I was only trying to speak the mind of what a typical unbelieving person who refuses to accept God thinks and reasons and how absurd it sounds when hearing it from someone else other than yourself.

    You see how ridiculous it sounds? These are the very thoughts that dominate someone who refuses to accept God, the only difference being that they are not spoken out bluntly as I’ve layed them at the table in my previous post.

    You supposedly corrected me by saying you want the freedom to love whoever you want to love and talking the truth whenever you please (without being forced or what do you mean?)…Hmm, that sounds as if you were saying you would also want to lie wehenver you feel like it and if you don’t feel like telling the truth, you don’t have to.Right?

    You are complimenting exactly what I’m trying to point out, except you are trying to sugarcoat your argument. As for the love, Nobody prevented you from loving whoever you want to love, infact, God commands that, but there are those who hate others and mistreat them and want the freedom to do so without being questioned.

    Let’s face it Severine, this world is full of evil because people have the freedom to do so, never mind those who go to prison because there are those who cheat, lie and gossip about others and get away with it and do not like it when they are being told that there’s a possibility they will be questioned about their actions one day.

    They do not like it including yourself!! No matter in what way you try to justify your point, the real issue here is that there is EVIL because people have told God they want to do it their own way without anyone questioning them.

    As for pregnancies, STD’s and abortions, just because you are part of the lucky percentage that was not affected does not mean it is not happening, other people have different stories to tell so speak for yourself.And as for saying you do not do this or that, don’t forget that every human being has their own weaknesses.

    Yes, you may not be a drug addict but your weakness differs from the other but the point is that it is there!! All sin is equal before God, whether you are a murderer or a candy theft…sin is sin and it is this kind of sin that people want the freedom to do, whether it’s to smoke a cigar or rob a bank. Just admit you are a sinner (Like myself) and repent and stop trying to defend yourself please because it’s not going to help you.

  86. on 08 Dec 2008 at 12:40 pm 86.Phileah said …

    Dear, Severine,

    Please don’t get me wrong. I know I’m being hard on you but I’m trying to point out facts here. We are all born sinners in this world, whether you have never killed a fly or not, whether you believe in brotherly love or not. That’s why you will never find anyone perfect no matter how good they are claimed to be, there will always be that one thing that they call their weakness point and that’s where the sin comes in.

    You may be a people’s person but you might have a weakness of dishonesty. In every human being, there is one bad thing or another and that’s why the Bible says we are all sinners, whether you are sitting in a prison cell or just a family man at home.

    All you need to do is admit you are a sinner and allow Jesus to cleanse you, yes, you will still have your weaknesses as long as you are human but the important thing is taking the step to admit you are a sinner. Denying it is not going to help you. It’s like denying a Cancer in your body and refuse treatment just because you do not see any symptoms.

    And denying the very God who wants to set you free is even worst. Unlike human beings who classify sins into bigger or smaller ones, God calls a spade as spade. There is no small, medium or large sin before Him. Sin is sin and all of us are sinners…

  87. on 26 Dec 2008 at 10:20 pm 87.Breadman said …

    Severine,
    If the God of the Bible is real, then what He says must be true because the Bible says He cannot lie. Simple logic…but I’m sure you never read it. Sorry, I assumed you were smart, and had a college education, etc, etc.

  88. on 28 Dec 2008 at 8:03 pm 88.loved one said …

    “Simple logic”

    that’s the most twisted logic I’ve encountered.
    It’s akin to the three year old’s logic “It’s true because I SAY it’s true!”

    nice try, but not very convincing…

  89. on 05 Jan 2009 at 10:32 am 89.anonymous said …

    Loved One, with all due respect,what u need is not 2 be convinced…what u need is the Holy Spirit to “convict” u of your sins and 2 encounter God for yourself.

    You can start by ending your denial of his existence and challenging him to reveal himself to you if he is really out there. Tell him you are tired of hearing him from other people and want to experience him yourself…trust me, he will give u a life changing experience and I’m talking from experience.

    The Bible says if you search him with all your heart, you will find him.
    God does not want us to sit at a table and argue about his existence, he wants us to search for him ourselves and to dare to challenge him to make himself known to us.

  90. on 05 Jan 2009 at 1:27 pm 90.Hermes said …

    anonymous, when you spell the word you like this — u — you look like a moron. How do you expect to convince anyone if you can’t even form a proper sentence?

    Additionally, we know what your religious book says. Many non-Christians know what it says better than Christians since we aren’t blind to the text by wishing that it will say what we want it to say. In the aggregate, it is a nasty book for slaves, with a few good spots that are mostly borrowed from other religions and cultures before it. I’ve found more per-page wisdom in the Tao Te Ching.

    If you don’t like my answer, and want to discuss this — since I am able to change my mind when talked with as opposed to preached at — you can find me in the forums;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

  91. on 07 Jan 2009 at 4:15 am 91.loved one said …

    Sorry anonymous, I do not wish to become a “convict”. For some reason that just doesn’t sound appealing to me.
    And as a matter of fact, I have challenge him and he failed to present himself on countless occasions. I gave more than half my life in a vain attempt. while I don’t regret those valuable learning experiences, I have no desire whatsoever to return to the days of wishful thinking.

  92. on 11 Jan 2009 at 10:34 am 92.new idea? said …

    I enjoyed reading this blog and the various points of view, and would like to offer my own of God and science.

    I think you’re arguing against the idea of a Christian God which I agree with, I don’t believe in the Christian idea of God. But I think the existence of a higher being is possible, and not such a delusion. I think of God in the broadest sense, as the thing that binds the human race together. To me, God is evolution, in our DNA, God is our basic will to live and live better than the other animals on the planet. In this vein of thought, God is love, altruism and kindness. Basically how far along we’ve come from being cavemen. In fact, I think I could even worship that idea, hold sacred that idea that we as human beings are a work in progress. It’s a stretch, but as a scientist, it’s all about stretches to prove/disprove. There is a lot of research being done on the interconnectedness of everything, which sparked the whole God-and-science-as-one debate.

    My practical argument for religion:

    Human beings need both reality/rationality and idealism/faith. I think that’s how people function, when it comes down to it, whether it’s in our individual lives or as a society. Faith/religion, at its core, is idealism about being a good person. But groups of people living together will always form some sort of government, and it’s up to the intelligentsia to figure out how to work both reality and idealism into their campaign — social Darwinism? God/religion itself isn’t a bad idea, it’s the narrow interpretation of God that leads to the violence and intolerance. Leaders take that narrow interpretation and manipulate people to do extreme things. But idealism/faith, despite its vulnerability, is a need. You need to have faith that no matter what happens, it’s worth the fight and in the end, everything’s gonna be okay. Even if your way of approaching that faith is through some organized religion with its own agenda. Religion is a way of giving faith some oomph. By oomph I mean age and mystical quality – where the fables and miracles of the Bible come in. Ancient things are always more special because they give you the feeling that we’re part of a bigger picture. Regardless of what the truth may be about God and what God is really like, people cannot survive without some form of faith. I’ve been around some of the most downtrodden people in the world, and when you hit rock-bottom, belief in the bigger picture is a survival skill. IE: What’s best for the amputee? I guess you would argue that the amputee should accept it in an existential way, like random shit just happens and you just deal with it. But I think said amputee would live a happier life believing that this tragedy happened for a reason unknown to him at the moment but would ultimately be a good thing, out of faith. It’s hard to say.

    No doubt Christianity is worthy of study. It is an interesting idea that turned into a social phenomenon, because of a powerful mix of politics, events (such as the crucifixion of Christ) and various other cultural factors that collided at the right time. But I think it may be on its way out in favor of broader, more inclusive ideas of God. Probably explains the popularity of the Eckhart Tolle books. Science shouldn’t exclude the study of how people function individually and in groups, in real life. Scientists, a.k.a. geeks, have traditionally done their thinking outside of the popular social norm — but as science/geekiness becomes the new ruling idea, it must not forget to strike a balance between hard, objective rationality and nice, fuzzy, subjective ideas to keep us going.

  93. on 11 Jan 2009 at 11:48 am 93.new idea? said …

    PS:

    To educate the Christians.

    It is very short-sighted to read the Christian Bible and its parables through a modern lens, or worse, to take it literally. To truly understand it, you have to read it as a political and historical textbook.

    The Old Testament records how a nation was formed and built. If you look at it from a clean slate, it’s about how the nation of Israel was founded. This tribe of people claimed that there was one God and to be the Chosen People of this one God. In reading the OT, you will find this country’s laws, cultural practices (regarding slavery, women, food, etc.) and its ideas of morality according to God. It was written and put together by men who set up temple and government, and unified their subjects.

    You’ll also find themes that are distinctly Judaic in the OT. IE:

    1. The practice of projecting sacrifice onto a bystander; Abraham was supposed to sacrifice his son, but at the last minute, they killed a lamb in his place.

    2. Prophecies about a divine descendant of David coming back to take the throne as the King of Israel, also called the Son of God.

    3. Various covenants with God.

    4. Many many metaphors and interpretations of certain images.

    5. A LOT of Jewish guilt. Sinning and whatnot.

    All this is especially relevant to understanding the New Testament. Again with a clean slate, imagine the time at which the events happened –

    1. The appearance of the prophet Jesus Christ, who claimed to be the Son of God and went around performing miracles. This actually isn’t the special part. There were a couple of prophets back in the day who claimed the same thing and also went around performing miracles and healing people. The surprising thing is how Christ died.

    2. The crucifixion of Christ (proven to be a historical event, as it was recorded in various texts other than the Bible) starts a growing sect of Jews who actually believe he is the prophesized Son of God.

    3. The adoption of Christianity by the then-pagan Roman Empire. Word gets around that the new Jesus cult is growing, and the Romans choose to sponsor it, seeing as the idea of One God/One Government seems to go hand-in-hand. Hence, the rise of the Roman Catholic Church.

    The New Testament is a well-studied addition to the Old Testament. Remember the themes I mentioned earlier? There are countless stories that allude to the inclusion of the Gentiles — and it all centers around Jesus Christ and his miracle work. The usage of Jesus as the sacrificial lamb to conjure up spooky, archaic Old Testament prophecy. Do you think he really fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish? It’s a METAPHOR. God is the bread and fish — not only for Jews, there is enough God to go around. Or how about the confusing story of the Canaanite woman? And note how it evolves from Matthew to Mark to Luke — each version is slightly different, depending on when it was chronologically distributed and what message it’s supposed to represent – regarding Gentile inclusion.

    The New Testament is a political book. Christianity, backed by Roman political agenda, was a means to unite and govern the empire. It was carefully edited over time, according to the needs of the regime. That’s why it’s contradictory at points — love thy neighboring Greek/Roman, smite the enemies of God when the Church needs a war. And how convenient that we were “born sinners” — so let’s forgive and forget about that time we crucified the Son of God. Obviously, it was because we were bad to begin with. But now we’re forgiven because we adopted the religion and used it to stay in power. New covenant, baby!

    Look, I don’t care if you choose to believe the Bible as your personal guidebook to living, and to what degree. Indeed, there is a lot of wisdom in old texts. But please don’t quote Bible verse randomly until you fully understand its relationship to the environment of the time. Some of it will apply to life today — some of it won’t. Learn some history and think for yourself, don’t let others indoctrinate your beliefs without thorough examination.

  94. on 11 Jan 2009 at 12:14 pm 94.Hermes said …

    new idea?, you made quite a few comments…too many for me to reply thoughtfully to in a short blog post.

    If you want to re-post the major chunks as separate threads in the forums, that would be appreciated. Let me know if you do and where I can pick up on your comments…

    Forums; http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

  95. on 12 Jan 2009 at 10:46 am 95.anonymous said …

    Hermes,the way I choose to write my “yous” is entirely my choice (unless I’m writing an exam or writing a formal report or I’m in a formal environment)apart from that, I don’t have to be forced 2 write formally in order to please U!

    Afterall, this is a social blog based on opinions…you see, that’s why u had the freedom to call me a moron simply because it’s allowed here, isn’t it?

    Any how, I wish u well on your life’s journey without God (both u and Loved One) and I hope at the end of it u will still be able to stand up proudly with your chin in the air (as u are now doing) and say it boldly that u do not need God…because that’s often not the case with people who reject God at the end of their life’s journey.

  96. on 13 Jan 2009 at 4:38 am 96.Hermes said …

    anonymous, then you won’t mind if I laugh and point at ‘yr’ ignorance?

    As for your deity, be honest. When have you ever seen it?

    With such stunning lack of insight and dogmatic adherence to the incorporeal, do you ever get called a lollipop?

  97. on 14 Jan 2009 at 9:08 am 97.anonymous said …

    Lack of insight? No Hermes, just because I do not go in detail about God does not mean I’m empty headed, I simply choose to say very little because, like I said before, you do not need to be convinced…in fact you need to be prayed for. Of course I have so many ways to explain God to you and what he miraculously did in my life, but with a hard core atheist like you, it will go right in your ear and get out the other so why should I even bother. The point is, you KNOW the Truth and you just don’t want to accept it (it’s not a matter of being convinced anymore, it’s a matter of take it or leave it).

    We only tell the Gospel once, if the person still does not believe, it’s up to them and not a matter of giving myself a headache in trying to convince anyone (I’ve then done my part). The Bible does not says “Convince the world that I’m God”, the Bible says “Preach the gospel” and if I have to try hard to make you accept Christ even after you know all there is to know, than I’m not preaching the Gospel anymore, I’m trying to convince you…which does not work.

    Like I said,I wish you well on your journey without God…good luck.

  98. on 14 Jan 2009 at 9:57 am 98.Hermes said …

    anonymous, I find it charming that you are sane enough to drop your instance on your former use of ur. Now, to the content…

    [ read read read ]

    So, you haven’t seen your god God. Got it. But, you find that you do have insight by bringing it up as if it were real. OK.

    I’m a ‘hard core’ atheist am I? Well, here’s the deal. I’m an agnostic atheist. Some gods do not exist, while others I’m willing to be convinced of. To you I have 2 words; show me.

    I’ve read your religious book twice, as well as other religious books like Dyanetics and the Tao te Ching. Of the three, I’d rank them in this order; Dyanetics, Bible, Tao te Ching … from worst to best.

    I’ve talked to people with theology degrees, and some of them I’ve helped them away from literal fantasy of your religious books toward the sanity of accepting reality.

    As you are a hard core Christian and are not willing to step up to the plate — only preach the Gospel — you up front say that you can not be convinced or even question your own beliefs. Meanwhile, I accept reality, and work from knowledge not suppositions or wishes.

    So, as you said … I wish you well on your own journey without any gods. You have none either.

  99. on 14 Jan 2009 at 7:32 pm 99.Severin said …

    “Severine,
    If the God of the Bible is real, then what He says must be true because the Bible says He cannot lie. Simple logic…but I’m sure you never read it. Sorry, I assumed you were smart, and had a college education, etc, etc.”

    Clear and simple logic! So if Donald Duck is real, then what he says must be true because The New York Times once said Donald Duck cannot lie.

    However, first of all, if Bible says that god cannot lie, than the Bible itself MUST not be wrong, and MUST be right in everything it says.If everything the Bible says is true, then the next fragments MUST be true, as I retyped them directly from my English copy of Bible (and I have one copy in my language too!):

    Deuteronomy Chapter 3:
    Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The LORD said to me, “Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon.” So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan. All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.

    or this also MUST be true:

    Hosea chapter 13:
    Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

    Is it, or isn’t it true? It is written in Bible, the god’s word, so it MUST be true, according to your “logic”. Consequence: your god is a baby – killer.

    If it isn’t, how the hell can YOU recognize what is and what in’t true? Is your god a baby-killer or not?

    Or, perhaps there is no god at all, so we have solved all our contradictions and dilemmas.

  100. on 14 Jan 2009 at 8:00 pm 100.Severin said …

    “Does this mean you guys don’t celebrate Easter and Christmas? what do you do when the rest of the world joins hands in celebrating the King’s birth?”

    When I was a very little boy, I was aware there was no real Santa, but I adored to meet him and “celebrate” him.

    Why not celebrate something even in case you are aware it is only tradition an legend? Why not take Christmas as a good “excuse” to meet family and friends, which we so rarely meet and have time for them during the year?

    In some 500 years from today, people will probably celebrate Christmas having no idea where it comes from. Perhaps they will celebrate something alse, similar to our situation – we do not celebrate Baal, Ra any more…., but we still have many habits (customs?) and celebrations having roots in old religions.

    To celebrate something, you do not need to BELIEVE in it!

  101. on 14 Jan 2009 at 9:15 pm 101.anonymous said …

    I am just a kid. I dont believe in any gods but my family does. They hate me because of my beliefs. What can I do to heal this madness in my family. Ive tried talking to them but they are christian and naturally…do not listen.

  102. on 14 Jan 2009 at 10:19 pm 102.Hermes said …

    anonymous: “What can I do to heal this madness in my family.”

    That’s a really difficult question, and it depends largely on how old you are, what they think, and not what you say or think.

    [ This comment is getting long, though please don't skim it for a quick tip. There are things you can do, though most of it will take a change in what you think not what they think. ]

    To start with, realize that the best answer might be to suck it up and pretend.

    That does not mean you have to go out of your way to profess what you don’t think is true. It might be as simple as going to church and saying the words when prompted.

    In my case, I got off light. I was about 8 … maybe 10 … when I thought I figured out that nobody really believes that there was a real person that controlled the universe and had magical powers.

    I figured that only really dumb, old, or really young people were the ones that honestly thought that a magic man existed — but anyone with half a brain cell and a modest education didn’t take it seriously. How could they? The idea was absurd!

    When people talked about God and Jesus, I figured they really were talking about being good and not the supernatural hocus pocus.

    Unfortunately, you know this might not be true.

    A few things to consider;

    1. Be an anthropologist.

    What do I mean? Look and observe the ‘Christians in their natural habitat’. Treat it just like you are observing some tribe in the middle of some distant wilderness. After all, you are witnessing a bizarre ritual that originated with a nomadic cult in the desert.

    Don’t judge them for the nonsense they spout, but be curious about it. After all, it is strange.

    2. Many of the people who say they believe that God is real — or go to events that seem to say they are believers — actually don’t believe a word of it.

    Unfortunately, many of them won’t say this in public, so how can you tell?

    One way is simple. If you go to church, look around while the other people pray with their heads bowed. Anyone else looking around like you instead of praying might not believe any of it either.

    3. Understand that the natives will be angry at times that you don’t respect their powerful spirit in exactly the way they want.

    Even if you don’t try and make them angry, sometimes they will be. Imagine if you were dropped in the middle of the jungle where the natives expect you to eat live bugs. Consider it a good thing that you don’t live there.

    4. Some of the natives will be scared about what other natives will do to them if they speak up. While some of this is not a valid fear, some of it is. People can be bigots. If you haven’t seen it yet, I think this video nails the subject;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-slAgzJmdU

    If you want to talk more, go to the forums. I have the same user name there;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

    Note: The forums are open to people 13 years old and older.

  103. on 15 Jan 2009 at 12:34 pm 103.anonymous said …

    Hermes, you never cease to amaze me. But I notice you are far beyond reach for help.You speak of “gods”. It doesn’t make sense to serve numerous gods. Just like you cannot have more than two governments in a country or they will envy each other because you are only meant to submit to one or there will be confusion.

    In fact, there is only one God.The moment you serve more than one god, they are not gods anymore…but idols. So I will stick to serving One God and Him only.

    Speaking of helping back your top theologians to reality, you are not helping them, you are robbing them of the hope and freedom found in Jesus Christ and you will be held accountable should they be lost in the pit of hell one day.

    I understand you do not believe there is a God, but dragging other people down the pit with you is not how we do things.If you are going to travel on your voyage to death, travel alone, don’t go and call people walking in the Truth to join you.In fact, my heart aches for those poor souls.

    Be not proud that you have managed to turn away these people from the Truth, you work with evidence, God works with faith and that’s why it was easy for you to turn them away because you gave them all the “believable evidence” as to why they should abandon what Jesus did for them on the cross.I’m saddened.

    You want proof of God you say? If you do not believe what you have heard so far and are attributing the miracles to coincidences and magic tricks and are still waiting for ‘Scientific proof” then you are in for a long wait.I suggest you go and find out the proper meaning of the word “Faith”.I only pray that you understand it properly.

  104. on 15 Jan 2009 at 1:59 pm 104.Gern Blansten said …

    The last commenter is a lost cause. Head in sand, scared of reality.

  105. on 15 Jan 2009 at 9:11 pm 105.Hermes said …

    Gern Blansten: “The last commenter is a lost cause. Head in sand, scared of reality.”

    As they say; ‘Dogma makes you CrAZy!’ :-O

  106. on 15 Jan 2009 at 9:20 pm 106.Arandom Person (call me randy) said …

    I kind of agree with anonymous, does that make me a “lost cause”, too. Tell me. I want to know.

  107. on 15 Jan 2009 at 9:28 pm 107.Arandom Person (call me randy) said …

    I mean I believe in God and I know that there is a higher power controlling the universe, But I don’t understand the relevance of worshipping multiple gods, because which one do you pledge your allegeance to? It’s like having multiple wives… how can you possibly love all of them the same…and even if you could, how couldn’t one of them get jealous and smite you down? Figure out the analogy.

  108. on 15 Jan 2009 at 10:24 pm 108.Hermes said …

    Randy, the anonymous you reference is a rabid monotheist. As I’m a non-theist, I don’t see the relevance of worshiping any deity — but if you do, why the bias against multiple?

    Remember: Just because you don’t believe in the tens of thousands of gods that have been and are now worshiped doesn’t mean that they won’t torture you for your lack of faith. ;-P

  109. on 16 Jan 2009 at 6:09 am 109.anonymous said …

    Gern Blansten

    And you’re scared of the possibility of a hell and that’s why you comfort yourself and choose to pretend it doesn’t exist.But it would be nice if there was no God to give account to or a hell to face after death, wouldn’t it? But that’s just not the case, my friend.I’m sorry.So I’m a lost cause…you’re a lost soul, you should be more worried.

    And Hermes, it’s clear you didn’t do the homework I gave you on finding out what faith is all about, otherwise you wouldn’t be sticking blindly to your exhausted argument of denying God.

  110. on 16 Jan 2009 at 11:06 am 110.Hermes said …

    anonymous: “it’s clear you didn’t do the homework I gave you on finding out what faith is all about”

    Just as you did not investigate the other gods that nobody has proven don’t exist. Or, maybe not?

    Unlike you, though, I’ve actually read some of those other books and have talked to those people … so, you can say I’m superficially informed about gods in general; after all, there are tens of thousands of them. Are you informed at all outside of your narrow niche?

  111. on 16 Jan 2009 at 11:17 am 111.Hermes said …

    anonymous: [ Comment to Gern Blansten ]

    While I could be wrong — a skill you should consider honing — I think I can speak for GB in saying that your joy in hate and misery is as sad as it is laughable.

    If your demonstration here is an example of how to culture a non-existent soul, then you are indeed a miserable poster child for your religion.

    Why don’t you drop the thinly veiled venom and the hate and the sacarine ‘my friend’ comments and actually talk with other people instead of projecting your own traumas?

    Point being: Non-Christians aren’t convinced of the validity of Christianity, else they’d be Christians. Acting like we’re lapsed Christians kinda misses the point.

  112. on 16 Jan 2009 at 11:23 am 112.Hermes said …

    anonymous: “I am just a kid. I dont believe in any gods but my family does. They hate me because of my beliefs. What can I do to heal this madness in my family. Ive tried talking to them but they are christian and naturally…do not listen.”

    I apologize for the delay in my initial response, as the links I provided in it caused my message to be sent to moderation.

    I want you to know that I’ve discussed your comment in private with some other folks, and they have been quite helpful.

    One person added;

    “I would simply say that one doesn’t have to always respect or even like one’s genetic relations, they can be idiots, and it’s perfectly okay to feel this way.”

    To that, I have to say that it shows compassion that you want to heal them of the madness they are inflicted with. Yet, make no mistake, that can be very difficult to do.

    My offer to discuss things with you on the forums is still open, and while I don’t think I’m an ideal person to help there are others that have experience with dealing with family members that cling to religion.

    If you aren’t old enough (13 or older) to join the forums, let me know and I’ll be glad to pass comments back to you.

  113. on 16 Jan 2009 at 11:39 am 113.Gern Blansten said …

    “think I can speak for GB in saying that your joy in hate and misery is as sad as it is laughable.”

    The only thing I’d add is “and frustrating.” What a great world this could be without religion.

  114. on 18 Jan 2009 at 6:37 pm 114.Hermes said …

    Gern Blansten: “What a great world this could be without religion.”

    Indeed. To be people of books and inspection not of a book alone would be a step in the right direction.

  115. on 06 Feb 2009 at 5:31 am 115.Rycharde said …

    Hi
    just added your blog to my feeds here
    http://aggregatedinfidels.blogspot.com/2009/02/why-wont-god-heal-amputees.html

    If you’d like to expand on the description or add anything feel free to leave a comment.
    Thanks

  116. on 19 Feb 2009 at 9:00 am 116.Werner said …

    Hi just to add something, i had a look at the so called proof that was given as to why God does not exist, it has a lot to do mwith sience i see, cause sience needs a explanation, sience is also cloning poeple, and animals, so lets see they need proof, ok look to the sky look to the ground, what did all that just appear, no God made it He also made me, and one of the greatest gifts i recieved was free will. One thing i believe in God, so lets say i dei, and there is no heaven, would i have lost anything, no, butlets say there is a God, what would you have lost when you dei?

  117. on 19 Feb 2009 at 12:30 pm 117.Gern Blansten said …

    Werner is more or less illiterate. He also doesn’t recognize Pascal’s Wager. Do a search, Werner.

  118. on 19 Feb 2009 at 8:31 pm 118.Hermes said …

    Gern, I agree. That is all!

  119. on 01 Mar 2009 at 7:13 pm 119.Jermethius said …

    I would like to say just a couple of things about the proofs presented on the God is Imaginary website.

    First, I can’t help, but notice that nowhere on the site does the author reveal his/herself. If this is truly his/her proud opinion then he/she should reveal him/herself to the world and take ownership of their work. If on the off chance that I have overlooked it then, I apologize, but I have explored the site, blog, and forums as deeply as I could and couldn’t find a reference to the author. If the information is there some place it is buried quite deep.

    Secondly, in direct response to the 50 proofs, prayer relies on faith. The scriptures used to “prove” most of the writer’s arguments directly point to faith, sincerity, and true desire. The verse that seems to come up most often in the essay is Matthew 7:7. I would just like to counter with the idea that when Jesus is speaking he is addressing those who believe and have at least a little faith in what they are doing. Ironically if you read down chapter 7 a bit further you will come to verses 21-23 where Jesus goes on to say…

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”

    In this alone Jesus points out that God does not cater to every little whim and fancy of His people. If he won’t do it for His people why would he do it for those who spit in His face? Consider a child who is constantly disrespectful to his parents and doesn’t do what he is told and constantly acts out. However, when he wants something he comes to them apologetic with words of blessings and praise. Does a good parent give in to the child’s fancy especially when they know he is going to return to old ways the moment he gets what he wants?

    If we are praying for something just because we want proof of God or are trying to prove God to others then we are wasting our time. If you truly believe then you have already found your proof and if you are trying to prove God to someone else, then stop, let him or her seek his or her own proof. For the person who does the work appreciates the outcomes more than the one that the work is done for him.

    The essay goes on to suggest that Jesus said that everything would come about in our time frame. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God will answer our prayers instantly. The only promise he makes concerning the timing of answered prayers is that when we truly wish to have him in our life that we will be saved in that moment. Beyond that no promises are made. In fact, the only real reference to time made is in 2 Peter 3:8: But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

    God will answer the prayers of his children in His time. This again is not unlike a parent who responds to a child’s request with a maybe, we’ll see, or not right now. Because the parent possibly knows something that the child does not and knows that now is not the time for the child’s request to be granted, but later it will be better or perhaps it will never be, but the parent has his/her reasons either way and does not always explain them.

    I have presented the idea of the child/parent relationship with God; I feel that I should make one popular misconception very clear. Many people will tell you that everyone is the child of God this is not true. The Bible never makes that claim. We are all God’s creation, but until we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior and God as the Father then we are not the child of God and thus can’t expect to benefit from the “family privileges” as any parent would attest, just because you give it to your children doesn’t mean you will give it to the neighbors’ kids too.

  120. on 01 Mar 2009 at 8:09 pm 120.Gern Blansten said …

    It’s like whack-a-mole around here.

    Godbots popping up all over.

  121. on 01 Mar 2009 at 11:23 pm 121.Hermes said …

    Jermethius, the multitude of authors of this web site are part of the leadership of the Illuminati of the Grand Pobah. If I were you, I would not go looking for them. ;-}

    As for the other comments you made, they would take a bit of time to address. If you want to join the forums, do so and let me know. I’ll repost your comments there;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

  122. on 05 Mar 2009 at 8:36 pm 122.Matt said …

    God answers our prayers within the realm of human capabilities. For example, it is humanly possible for one’s one budy to kill cancerous tumors without any assistance, but God can assist us if it is his will and we pray to him. The body cannot, however regrow entire structures of the body that are missing. For another example, it is possible for me to ingest a large quantity of poison, yet conditions within my body prevent me from recieving a fatal dose. Maybe with prayer, God can help alter those conditions in my body so that the poison is not absorbed. Point being, God does not make us superhuman, and although miracles do occur, they are rare nonetheless and we cannot doubt God just because he doesnt prevent everyone from dying or becoming injured.

  123. on 05 Mar 2009 at 8:37 pm 123.Matt said …

    God answers our prayers within the realm of human capabilities. For example, it is humanly possible for one’s one body to kill cancerous tumors without any assistance, but God can assist us if it is his will and we pray to him. The body cannot, however regrow entire structures of the body that are missing. For another example, it is possible for me to ingest a large quantity of poison, yet conditions within my body prevent me from recieving a fatal dose. Maybe with prayer, God can help alter those conditions in my body so that the poison is not absorbed. Point being, God does not make us superhuman, and although miracles do occur, they are rare nonetheless and we cannot doubt God just because he doesnt prevent everyone from dying or becoming injured.

  124. on 05 Mar 2009 at 8:38 pm 124.Matt said …

    sorry about my double post I tried to correct a spelling error and realized that i couldn’t deleat the original post!

  125. on 05 Mar 2009 at 9:09 pm 125.Gern Blansten said …

    Matt, which god are you referring to? Zeus? Ba’al? Yahweh? Mordak? Ra? Quetzcoatl?

    If you don’t believe in Zeus, please tell me why not. Then I’ll use that same logic to “prove” that Yahweh doesn’t exist.

    Also, please tell me why you think the bible is “correct,” and the Koran is “incorrect.”

  126. on 05 Mar 2009 at 10:03 pm 126.Hermes said …

    Matt, since what you said contradicts the Christian Bible, what deity are you talking about when you use the proper name “God”?

    For reference, here’s what I mean by your deity not being the one in the Christian Bible;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

    If you want we can discuss your deity, though this site is mostly directed toward Christians.

  127. on 21 Mar 2009 at 1:09 am 127.A.nastasia said …

    I assume you can see the email address included here, even though it “will not be published”? Just wondering if I’ve found the correct MD from a Forum a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… (well, not all *that* far, but I didn’t wanna ruin the scansion) If it’s you, let me know! Or look for me & other fornmer forumnicators on FcBk.
    [ANyhoo, sorry to mess up your workspace here, hope I've got the right person, hope you can delete this if you want.]

  128. on 22 Mar 2009 at 11:55 am 128.Darrell said …

    Just been reading through the long list of comments here, interesting stuff. Good to see believers and non-believers voicing their opinions.

    To all the believers out there the only logical choice for you is to stick to whats in the bible and not what your religion, church or preacher tells you to believe, your god has given you free will to choose your path and a book to serve him by so if you dont follow his words correctly how can you truly believe and most importantly understand? The bible (the word of god) should be the corner stone of all religion not the twisted word of man. This is just my opinion made from reading the bible.

    To the non-believers keep on doing whatever you want because you seem to have the universe all worked out and your not affraid to admit it, its your choice not to believe in god so good for you, making a choice is the only freedom we have so use that freedom to your own satisfaction.
    Again this is just my insignificant point of view with information I have from listening to and reading articles from non_believers.

    To people like me with an open mind keep seeking knowledge and listen to others, no one knows for certain whats true or false in this matter and to say otherwise is an act of arrogance and stupidity.

    To everyone I say voice your point of view but dont tell someone that what they believe is wrong, we all have free will to believe what we want and no person has the right to tell you otherwise. I know this subject makes people passionate about their beliefs but step back for a second and think to yourself “do I really want to force my beliefs onto another?” If your answer is NO then voice your opinion respectfully, there is nothing wrong with a little friendly debate. Every sane person would answer no.
    If your answer is YES then your a lost cause ( fucking moronic filth ), forcing your beliefs onto another is a form of abuse, only the true scum of the earth would do such a thing. People like this cannot be reasoned with.

    So to all on this website if you disagree with someones comment dont personally attack their integrity and beliefs, everyone has their own point of view regardless of it being right or wrong in your own eyes. Just use whatever facts you have to voice your opinion, not to try to change someones mind or beliefs but to say ” hey just take a look from this angle for second and see what you think about my view ” You never know you might like it!!

  129. on 22 Mar 2009 at 12:32 pm 129.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, your agenda is transparent. Have the guts to say what you really mean.

  130. on 22 Mar 2009 at 12:56 pm 130.Darrell said …

    My agenda is transparent???? I didnt realise I had an agenda Gern, WOW you must be a truly remarkable person you seem to know me better than i know myself. Im so sorry you dont have the mental capacity to understand my opinions Gern, your the only one who needs to grow some balls and say what you really mean. Check my responce to your comment on the other page Gern and answer me.
    Again Ill say sorry that Ive to resort to slander and trash talk but you deserve to receive the type of language you dish out.
    You have the right to speak your mind Gern but you dont seem to be able to say anything of substance so just keep on having a go at everyones opinions and rock yourself to sleep at night in your bed of blissfull ignorance.
    Oh yeah one more thing I guess you answered YES to the above question, wouldnt supprise me in the least, but feel free to prove me wrong oh great master of all knowledge

  131. on 23 Mar 2009 at 9:03 am 131.Darrell said …

    To all the believers out there, I would just like to point out 2 things that Ive noticed alot of you saying on here.
    1 Hell
    2 Sin
    1 Ive seen some talk of believers mentioning going to hell, please if your a believer read your bible as it is supposed to be the truth of your God, is it not? All your answers are in the bible, thats if your a believer. It says when we die we cease to exist, no soul or spirit lives on, so how can there be a hell, the bible states there is no hell and no life after death so no need to worry then is there. It also states that God will bring everyone that has died back to life when he brings his kingdom the the earth, so again for you believers you have nothing to fear of hell.

    2 Some have mentioned sins and that jesus will clear you of all sins if you ask him to. Again read your bible as it says that as we are all born sinners what we do in our lifetime will have no impact on being brought back to life, so sin your hearts out people :) Your bible tells you that you will be brought back to life nomatter what sins you commited during your life and you will be given the choice to follow Gods laws and live forever or disobey his laws and die.
    See all you non-believers and opened minded people there is a place for you too in the christian bible, you will get your chance to believe, thats if the bible is true of course.

    I feel sorry for alot of the people that believe in God because religion has warped and twisted the only thing that gives you proof of your God, the bible. So if you do believe in god read your bible to seek your truths dont listen to the tainted word of man.

    Non-believers read whatever you want to as you dont believe anyway but I do urge you to read the bible only to gain another perspective into the christian realm and to try to understand why they do believe in God.

  132. on 24 Mar 2009 at 6:33 pm 132.Severin said …

    Sorry to see Darrell dos not see the difference between forcing someone’s beliefs onto another, and debate, in which everybody is saying no more than his/her opinion.

    All the religions FORCE their opinion onto another people! Untill recently, in Christianity, it was extremely dangerous to oposit such forcing. Remeber Giordano Bruno? Remeber burned blasphemists in 18th century? Remember The Holy Inquisition and their tortures?
    In some other religions oposing such forcing is lethal even today!

    If religion promoters would only expose their opinion and limit themself to debates only,it would be a nice change! Even today, in many countries, they DO NOT TOLERATE another opinion and use their power (sometimes hidden)to exclude anyone having different thoughts from society. They FORCE their opinion onto another.
    I, and most other atheists, do not agree with many opinions but we TOLERATE them. We do not force, do not hate, we only talk.

    I saw no forcing in anyone’s discussion here, only opinions one may or may not accept, and – as they are said in public – everyone has right to give his, as an oposite opinion or as an acceptance of somebody’s one, or as a question, etc.

    The target of each debate IS to change someone’s opinion using more or less correct arguments, so what’s wrong with this? Shall we all only keep our mouths shut? Why would you call it “forcing” and give the names (fucking moroic flith) to people oposing other people in decent (verbal) way, without use of “fucking moronic fliths”?

    If there were no oposing, if people would let others to think and do what they want through centuries, we would today have slavory, or dark middle age.`

    Finally, what was really your point? To “alow” us “ignorants” to stay burried in our own beliefs, without right to discuss, without right to exchange thoughts and opinions, without right to LEARN?

  133. on 24 Mar 2009 at 11:18 pm 133.Hermes said …

    Severin, well said.

  134. on 25 Mar 2009 at 4:11 am 134.Darrell said …

    Severin, finally someone who is willing to talk and exchange ideas.
    I agree with pretty much everything you just said.

    You tell me your an atheist I respect that as it is your right to believe what you will. I on the other hand dont like to class myself as anything making me a truly free willed free thinking person.
    You see Severin many like myself believe when you call yourself an atheist its no different than saying your catholic or muslim or christian etc… its your religion based on information that all atheists believe to be the same. Does this not make you a collective mind?
    Just a question Severin Im in no way stating a fact.

    Im not here to say that god does or doesnt exist, to do so is pure arrogance as I can in no way provide any evidence to try to prove either to be true.

    Your description of debate I find questionable. I will not say your wrong and Im right as it goes against my beliefs to do so.
    I thought a debate was to get the other side to accept your opinion not to convert the other party. You also stated the use of ‘correct arguments’. That means you must be 100% certain of your argument and have unquestionable evidence or proof of the claim. I do accept that but not in full as it depends on the topic of debate.
    For example the debate here is the existence of GOD, a debate that has been going for thousands of years and will continue to do so as it cant be proven from either side.

    Now my talk of forcing ones views onto another.
    No one in their right mind would try to force their views or beliefs onto another as Im sure you would agree.
    You said you havent seen anyone doing that on here, ok fair enough but I have seen it and got the person to publicly state it.
    Please refer to the blog How We Should Treat All Christians, comment #47.
    I say to Hermes “I find you on here trying to bash your views into others minds”
    Hermes responce “you would be supprised how often it works” then goes on to gloat about the people he has so called helped.

    Does it not clearly show the accusation I made to be true?

    Now refer to the blog The Best Article Ever, comment #41.
    I say “nomatter what you believe someone will believe something else and you cant tell them otherwise”
    Hermes responce “yeah we can”

    That to me again clearly shows he has the right to tell someone what they believe is incorrect.
    All we can say is we dont agree with the belief not that its true or false and you must believe in something other than that.

    I dont know how you see this Severin but would like to know so please comment freely.

    If you look at the other blogs the so called debate between Hermes and I has devolved into a personal attack on eachother. I continue to ask him questions and receive only insults. Same problem with Gern aswell.

    I thank you Severin for your comment without a personal attack or adding insults. You simply pointed out where you disagree with my comment leaving opportunity for me to respond. As do I return the favor. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

  135. on 25 Mar 2009 at 4:13 am 135.Darrell said …

    As for you Hermes why are you still here?

  136. on 25 Mar 2009 at 8:38 am 136.Darrell said …

    Severin, also I do apologise for the language I used earlier.
    From your statement Im under the impression that you thought I was directing it at people who disagree or have a different opinions.
    It was purely directed at those who force their beliefs onto others (as you quoted some religions etc..).
    Sorry if you thought otherwise.

  137. on 26 Mar 2009 at 7:43 pm 137.Mike said …

    Ahh!!! the debate about God.

    If God does not exsist why does an athiest bother arguing the point. I believe in God. I do not beleive in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny and I do not bother arguing with those who do.

    Does an atheist argue agaisnt God because he has his own releigion called HUMANISM? Well that’s what I get out of this website. Let’s all be HUMANISTS.

    If God does not exist then “MIGHT” makes “RIGHT”. If Germany won WWII the Nazism would be the law of the land. Jews, Gypsies, the menatlly retarded, the infermed, etc. would be exterminated. YEAH for HUMANISM!!!

    Margret Sanger and her crew in
    the 1920′s promoted “cleansing of the human race” by killing off blacks, browns, yellows, retarded, etc. YEAH for HUMANISM!!! Kill ‘em all and nobody to sort them out.

    As for me, any belief that confounds, confuses, deflates, and defeats HUMANISM is better then HUMANISM, even if it means believing in a “lucky rabbits foot”.

    Now why doesn’t God heal amputees? Because God’s plan is to restore mankind to his rightful place in creation before man fell and unfortunately this earth has fallen and is fading away.

    Before I go any further let me say this, my life is very very bad. God has not granted my prayers and I am overwhelmed daily by grief and sadness. So why I do still belive in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Because in al this I learned complete and total submission to God surrendering everything I have in this life to Him.

    Non-believers will say about me “what an idiot” and if you don’t believe I would have to agree with them but I found “that pearl of great price” which has provided me with a sense of “awareness” of greater things in creation.

    Because of this “awareness” I have become in a sense an “alien”. Not like those “Heaven’s Gate” guys looking to ride off on a comet but realizing that this world is not for me. A better life and a better world await me.

    It’s funny because when I first read the arguments on this website I understood the arguements and at first I wanted to argue against them but I’ve been moved by the Spirit in a different direction.

    For those who refuse to believe that is your choice. For those who do belive and were disturbed by the arguements presented, remember as St. Paul says “we are aliens and are looking toward a better world”.

    May the peace of Christ Jesus be with you all.

  138. on 26 Mar 2009 at 9:35 pm 138.Lou said …

    Well stated Mike. When mankind becomes no more than another animal in the link of evolution, why shouldn’t the laws of the wild apply? I think you are on to something there.

  139. on 26 Mar 2009 at 10:11 pm 139.Gern Blansten said …

    Evolution is descriptive. It can be immoral only if attempting to accurately describe nature is immoral.

    Any morals derived from evolution would have to recognize the fact that humans have evolved to be social animals. In a social setting, cooperation and even altruism lead to better fitness (Wedekind and Milinski 2000). The process of evolution leads naturally to social animals such as humans developing ethical principles such as the Golden Rule.

    Some bad morals, such as eugenics and social Darwinism, are based on misunderstandings of evolution. Therefore, it is important that evolution be taught well to negate such misunderstandings.

    Despite claims otherwise, creationism has its own problems. For one thing, it is founded on religious bigotry, so the foundation of creationism, by most standards, is immoral.

    Probably the most effective weapon against bad morals is exposure and publicity. Evolution (and science in general) is based on a culture of making information public.

    Scientists are their own harshest critics. They have developed codes of ethical behavior for several circumstances, and they have begun to talk about a general ethics (Rotblat 1999). Creationists have nothing similar.

    Some people feel better about themselves by demonizing others. Those people who are truly interested in morals begin by looking for immorality within themselves, not others.

  140. on 26 Mar 2009 at 10:12 pm 140.Gern Blansten said …

    Evolution does not teach that humans are animals; biology in general does (and so does the Bible, in Ecclesiastes 3:18-21). More specifically, humans are a species of primate, which is a category of mammal, which is a category of vertebrate, which is a category of animal. This was known more than 2000 years ago.

    “Behaving like animals” does not mean anything, because different animals behave in different ways. A part of human behavior is the ability of people to learn and to modify their behavior according to cultural norms. Evolution teaches that people behave like humans.

    Creationism teaches that similarities are designed, that God designed our bodies to be like animals. If God designed us to be like animals, then (creationism teaches) we should behave like animals.

  141. on 26 Mar 2009 at 10:12 pm 141.Gern Blansten said …

    The above are from Talk Origins.

  142. on 26 Mar 2009 at 11:38 pm 142.Hermes said …

    Gern Blansten, RE: #140 above. Posted the Bible reference to a thread in the forums;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=5266.msg116211#msg116211

    Thanks!

  143. on 27 Mar 2009 at 12:34 am 143.Gern Blansten said …

    You’re welcome.

    The truth is, it gets so tiresome hearing these inane claims, it’s easier just to cut and paste from Talk Origins.

    Granted, the person making the inane claim is unlikely to even read what I paste, but maybe some passerby will benefit.

    But you know all this better than I do!

  144. on 27 Mar 2009 at 4:01 am 144.Hermes said …

    I think Mike makes a wonderful point.
    You see Im now at a point in my life where Im questioning my faith.
    Its still hard to believe in god though as how can the one you talk of exist when Im the only true god!!!!

  145. on 27 Mar 2009 at 8:30 am 145.Darrell said …

    HERMES

    I read your link above.
    If humans are not animals then what are we?

    Most species of animal are better by far than our own species. Humans are the only species on the earth that dont make sence and dont fit into any system other than the one we have created for ourselves.

    Every other animal species is in harmony with nature and the earth. We are not!

    Brings up another line of questions as to the purpose and origin of humans.

  146. on 27 Mar 2009 at 9:01 am 146.Lou said …

    From Life Application Notes. I though you might enjoy this view of Scripture you quoted.

    “Our bodies can’t live forever in their present state. In that sense, humans and animals are alike. But Solomon acknowledged that God has given people the hope of eternity (see the note on Eccl 3:11), and that we will undergo judgment in the next life (Eccl 3:17; 12:7,14) — making us different from animals. Because man has eternity set in his heart, he has a unique purpose in God’s overall plan. Yet we cannot discover God’s purpose for our lives by our own efforts — only through building a relationship with him and seeking his guidance.” —Life Application Bible Notes

    Also check Ecc 12:7 & Gen 1:26 for verification.

    Gern you exactly right about the bodies of man and animals. According to Scripture, it is the soul & spirit, created by God that makes us unique.

    Lou

  147. on 27 Mar 2009 at 10:01 am 147.Darrell said …

    LOU

    Hermes will still disagree nomatter what you try to say.
    In the quote it says ‘that we will undergo judgement in the next life’. Many christians confuse that with meaning we live on after we die but the bible states when we are dead we are dead.
    Different religions have twisted it to talk of hell and such.
    I think you and I know what its trying to say. The next life is when god brings everyone back from the dead and judgement day begins ( 1000 years ) for everyone to learn of god and his will.

    Nice to think that it might be true isnt it.
    Just trys to give people some hope for the future.
    Nothing wrong with that but atheists will disagree for they want no one to have hope for anything as they are sad bitter negative people.

  148. on 27 Mar 2009 at 10:39 am 148.Hermes said …

    Darrell, what reason do I have to reply to you?

    Make it a good one.

  149. on 27 Mar 2009 at 12:07 pm 149.Severin said …

    ‘correct arguments’
    I did not say that! I said “more or less correct arguments”!

    “Now why doesn’t God heal amputees? Because God’s plan is to restore mankind to his rightful place in creation before man fell and unfortunately this earth has fallen and is fading away.”
    Why, then, he DOES heal cancer, as many of you believe? What is the difference?

    “Does an atheist argue agaisnt God because he has his own releigion called HUMANISM?”
    Of course not! The ateists argue against God the same way people argue against smoking, taking drogs and alcohol.
    All religions together made much more bad things to human race than all cigarettes, drugs and alcohol consumed through human history, this is my opinion, and they (religions) should be treated the same way as the other a.m. desasters.

    “So why I do still belive in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?”
    I am sincerely sorry for you bad life, but perhaps it would be better if you believed in Allah, maybe that one will answer your preyers (the first part of the sentence is not ironic, the second is up to you to estimate!).

    “If humans are not animals then what are we?”
    Why is it so important? We are humans, why is it necessary to classify us?

    “Every other animal species is in harmony with nature and the earth. We are not!”
    EVERY (but EVERY!) other animal is dramatically changing its surrounding. In that way, a mouse is in perfect harmony with nature, as well as ants, cancer viruses, lions, etc.

    Finally:Why should I, or anybody, prove that god does not exist? The god existance was stated thousends years before anybody dared to say he does not exist, without any evidences. So I shall inform you about my evidences when after somebody give me his about god’s exiastance.
    If god was not invented, nobody would ever be forced to expose evidences he does not exist.

    Of course, I do not accept “evidences” such as “There is written in the Bible, so it must be the truth”

    (Eternal life)”Just trys to give people some hope for the future.” -as a drug, to move their attention from how they were exploitet in this life by those who invented the story, I would say.

  150. on 27 Mar 2009 at 3:02 pm 150.Mike said …

    Oh your ignorance astounds me!!! Your concern for me is so touching!!! Who are you to care about me?
    I didn’t ask for your help to save me from my superstitious beliefs!!! If you don’t want to believe in God that is your choice. But don’t propose to tell me how wrong I am to believe. It is not my job to make you believe.

    Why should you, or anyone else, care if I smoke and argue agaisnt smoking. If I die of cacer so be it. As long as I don’t affect you in anyway shape or form then don’t bother me. Who are you to tell me not to smoke? As for people being cured of cancer, I don’t know of anyone whom God cured their cancer, including my wife who died of cancer 3 years ago.

    As for HUMANISM, call it anything you want, it is still based on human feelings and emotions. As Shakespere said “as rose is still a rose by any other name”. If you don’t believe in God then by default you believe in man, even passively, and that is HUMANISM.

    So let’s take your position that God does not exist. Then man and only man decides what the rules are for any given time. I can smoke, I can drink, I can use drugs and if I can afford these things and not affect you then…SHUT UP…you are not the boss of me. Get the point! If however, my actions interfere with yo then I understand why you may have objections to my actions. Now we have a conflict and if I am stronger then you, you lose, I win. And if I have enough people on my side agreeing with me then you and yours lose more. Oh man, what a drag for you. Of course if you win you get what you want. See how it works!!!

    Anything, anything at all that proposes to be “good” “moral” or “right” based on man’s determination is subject to change based on the strong at the time. Such is life, such is the way of the world. Foolishness, a chasing ofthe wind.

    As for your claim that religion vreated more bad things then good. WRONG!!!

    Better study up boy because here goes:
    Judeism was the first religion that gave women a voice in the social communtity starting with Moses in Exedus. Christianity an later Islam develped the hospital system to take care of the aged and infirmed. Christianity in the 1820′s, first in England and later America, fought against slavery which had been a human instituion for thousands of years with all sorts of people, not just blacks.

    Would you like to compare these facts above which I have referenced to the ikes of the Roman Empire, The French Revoluiton, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc. For ever one bad thing done inthe name of God I can show you ten done inthe name of Man.

    There is a saying that goes like this. “It is better to let people think you are ignorant then to open your mouth and remove all doubt”.

    You speak (write) as those who hear everything and learn nothing. Here’s a quote by Mark Twain “a lie can get half way arond the world before the truth can put on it’s pants”. Please, next time you write get your facts straight.

    One more things, you say nature is in harmony? In nature the strong survive, the weak die, eat or be eaten, if that is your defintion of harmony in nature, so be it. Then let man live in harmony like nature. The strong man comands, the weak man serves. There is no god to save the weak man or punsih the strong man. The strong man takes the wife and money and everything from the weak man.

    In the end both will die. One will have enjoyed life to it’s fullest, the other will have suffered. Both live in vain with no regret and no hope.

  151. on 27 Mar 2009 at 10:59 pm 151.Hermes said …

    Darrell, Lou, or Darrell/Lou;

    Have either of you made accounts on the forum? If so, what name(s) do you go by?

  152. on 27 Mar 2009 at 11:15 pm 152.Hermes said …

    Severin, good comments.

  153. on 27 Mar 2009 at 11:22 pm 153.Hermes said …

    Mike, I don’t care what your religious beliefs are. I do care what people do in the names of various religions that are negative acts wrapped in piety. Ones that lead to bigotry, ignorance, harm, and death.

    If you are with me on wanting to address those wrongs, then as far as I’m concerned we are on the same side. If not, and you make nothing but excuses for your co-religionists that do those bad things. If you along with them wish to have those acts sanctified not only in the temple but in all areas of society, then I can not stand with you. That would be immoral.

    To you: Where do you stand?

  154. on 28 Mar 2009 at 5:04 am 154.Darrell said …

    I think you know by now that Lou and I are different Hermes.
    As for the forums Ive wasted too much time here let anlone go into the forums. It would be a pointless exercise as this whole site seems to be anyway.

    One last comment to you about your comments to Mike.
    I agree people do bad things in the name of religion but then others do some great things in the same name. It all comes down to the person not the religion.
    Even the most sane level headed man can turn and do some terrible things then state that he did it in the name of something.

    Point: people will never perfect nomatter what beliefs they follow!!

  155. on 28 Mar 2009 at 12:29 pm 155.Hermes said …

    Darrell, as far as I can see the good is outweighed by the bad. Consider the two articles at the top of this thread;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=2076

    If cherry picking of statistics is not performed, the general trend is there. Is it definitive? No. Yet, it does not support the proposition that religion is a net positive as it’s proponents and apologists (including secular ones) tend to assert. That positive benefit is a myth (see Joseph Campbell’s work for an idea of what I mean by myth; I’m not saying ‘just a myth’ as a dismissive remark).

  156. on 28 Mar 2009 at 7:20 pm 156.Mike said …

    My Dear Hermes,
    I really wish you would not speak of things you know nothing about. Your repsonse to Darrel is proof enough. You are a blind man leading blind men and both of you will fall in a hole.

    I will adress your response to me dated 27mar09 and about doing good and after will say nothing further.

    Answers me if you can. What is good? Where does it come from and who has mastered it? Is it changing over the times or is it constant through out eternity? Who has said I know what is good and I know it’s beginning and it’s end. Where does good come from and wher does it go? Is good absolute or can I bend it to my will? And if good is not absolute who will hold me accoutable?

    Whether you believe or not may the God and Father of my Lord Jesus blees all of you and the love of Jesus be upon and may the Holy Spirit guide you in all your ways. Who knows, maybe som one may open the door when He knocks.

  157. on 28 Mar 2009 at 8:15 pm 157.Hermes said …

    Mike, did you look at the link, and do you know the material? If not, then the prudent thing to do would be to dismiss your opinion and your further comments.

    I await your assurance that you are informed on the same topics as I am, and are acting based on knowledge not an impulse that lacks careful and humble inspection.

  158. on 28 Mar 2009 at 8:57 pm 158.Darrell said …

    Hermes I agree.
    The bad will always overshadow the good and in this volotile world the bad is reigning suppreme.

    Most good deeds go unnoticed these days.

  159. on 29 Mar 2009 at 5:51 am 159.Severin said …

    “Oh your ignorance astounds me!!! Your concern for me is so touching!!! Who are you to care about me?”

    Dear Mike, I really do not concern for you, where did you see me concerning for you?

    I do not offer any help to you, and I am not trying to impose my care to you, thanks for asking.

    You think what you want, but do expect civilized, unpathetic and unimpulsive reactions in case YOU public YOUR opinions!

    I could ask all the religion imposers (and that was NOT harmless during history, and even is not today!)the same: who, the hell, are you to concern for me? Why are you forcing me to follow your beliefs?

    Forcing me to do this they give me right to be a little bit more aggressive, and to force against, but – of course – as I am a civilized person, I am doing it ONLY in words, not in terrible acts they used (and are still using!) to impose their beliefs to me and to the rest of humans.

    I am not killing people to prove my “religion” is the right one – I am only talking, trying even not to use words which could offend someone.
    So I am NOT saying anybody is an ignorant – what I am trying to say: RELIGON(S) is/are ignorance – see the difference?

    You obviously did not read much of the history, so your “argumetn” about the “goods” religion did to human race look like the “argument” that Hitler was good, beacause he built highways. He really DID, but his highways did not annul all the crimes he did to human race.

    And, yes, I do care if you smoke, for practical, not for personal reasons! If you get cancer, someone else will have to pay for your hospital treatment.

  160. on 11 May 2009 at 8:05 pm 160.Bella said …

    Why are people so against God? Why can’t people just accept Him and simply live their lives with Him in their heart? And who knows?….They may find that they are much happier:)

  161. on 12 May 2009 at 2:51 am 161.Hermes said …

    Bella: “Why are people so against God?”

    We’re not. God is imaginary.

    Bella: “Why can’t people just accept Him and simply live their lives with Him in their heart?”

    How many gods have you accepted into your heart?

  162. on 08 Jun 2009 at 5:48 pm 162.Severin said …

    Bella: “Why are people so against God? Why can’t people just accept Him and simply live their lives with Him in their heart? And who knows?….They may find that they are much happier:)”

    Why people believe in god? Why can’t they just forget him and live their lives without him in their hearts? And who knows?… They may find that hey are mcuh happier!

  163. on 24 Jun 2009 at 12:34 pm 163.Dineo said …

    All you people having sleepless nights in front of your computers trying to prove that God does not exist, you are searching for something, and it shows in your desperation.

    You are fighting a losing battle. No matter how hard you try to fight the existence of God, his Supremacy is not measured by your human opinions; he will forever remain God with or without your knowledge of him.

    He was there before you were born, and he will be there long after you are dead and buried. As the Bible says, what is but man, he is like the trees of the field, here today and gone tomorrow, and although you may not acknowledge him, you are to him like a grain of salt and you think you know enough to conclude he does not exist just because your small human mind is not big enough to comprehend.

    Great atheists like you had their opinions and debated about how they thought the idea of a God was absurd, today they lie silent in their graves. Scientists who have studied the galaxy have said the Earth appears the size of a tennis ball compared to the magnificence of the entire universe and other far away planets.
    It is easy for us to think this Earth is all there is, in the same way, just because we do not understand the nature of God does not mean what our minds has to offer in terms of understanding is all there is.

    In the same way, it is easy for tiny insects that live deep under the soil to believe that there are such things as humans out there because they only know the environment around them and are ignorant a bigger world out there.

    When something is so tiny, it is impossible to comprehend how the bigger picture looks because it only concentrates on what it knows and how far it can see. To God you are like insects foolishly thinking your comfortable little holes you live in is all there is, that’s why the idea of a God is nonsense to you.

  164. on 25 Jun 2009 at 6:10 pm 164.Severin said …

    “All you people having sleepless nights in front of your computers trying to prove that God does not exist, you are searching for something, and it shows in your desperation.”

    - I am 66, and most of my life I had excellent sleep!
    - I was never desperate in my entire life.
    So, pls, do not use such “arguments”! Your desperacy (if any) does not mean someone else is necessaryly desperate too.
    - I never tried to prove god does not exist! No atheist ever did! To challenge someone to try to prove a non-existance of something/someone, some evidences should be offered previously to try to prove it/he/she DOES exist.
    I never saw such evidences about god, no one ever offered them, neither I nor anyone else ever,in the whole history of human race, sow them, so believing in god is for me simple ignorance. Someone said/wrote there is a god, and expects me to just trust it – too much for me!
    My comments are NOT tryings to prove there is no god, but tryings to fight ignorance, as I think ignorance is bad for people.
    However, everybody is free to be an ignorant if he/she preferes so.

    “As the Bible says…”
    - This is all you and other religious people can ever offer as an “evidence”, but this is really nothing.
    A book of legends, a mixture of nonsenses, horrible, bloody stories, threatenings, contradictions, unfulfilled promisses, direct lies, unproven statements, a book combined from prehistorical legends of not one, but many (barbarian! non-christian!) nations existed thousends of years b.c., on 3 continents, CAN NOT prove anything.

    Bible offers as much evidences for god’s existance as the Odyssey story proves the existance of sirens.

    Pls. forget Bible in case you want to offer evidences for god’s existence to anyone with a grain of common sense! Look for better evidences, and if you find them – congratulations! – you will be the first one who got them, and everybody will be glad to see/hear them an to discuss them.

  165. on 10 Jul 2009 at 3:31 am 165.Kurt said …

    Great website. Keep up the work. Strive for a rational world. There are no “answers” out there or “truths” that most religions talk about. We exist. But we have a choice to make our existence a great time and to allow those who come after us to have the same or better existence. Naturalism, atheism, these are optimistic, loving ideas that help humanity. Wake up people and stop being delusional.

  166. on 18 Jul 2009 at 2:59 pm 166.Shirlee said …

    Thomas -

    I’ve had a look over your site, after a friend pointed it out to me. You claim that God is imaginary, and that is why He won’t answer prayers.

    Well, have we got a challenge for you!

    If you have a look at our website, you’ll see that we’re gearing up for a worldwide day of prayer to ask the Lord to heal Trig Palin of his Down Syndrome. (pray4trig.com)

    The reason God doesn’t answer the prayers of many is because they lack faith. By getting the word to as many as possible, we will doubtless find people with true faith, instead of the doubters we find in every congregation.

    On April 18, 2010, when Trig Palin is healed in God’s Miracle, will you then believe?

    (Note: I tried to post onto your forum, but the link returns server errors. You may wish to fix that.)

    - Shirlee

  167. on 18 Jul 2009 at 3:08 pm 167.MRMEAN said …

    “On April 18, 2010, when Trig Palin is healed in God’s Miracle, will you then believe?”

    And when Trig is still “special” will you come back here and admit that God is imaginary?

  168. on 10 Aug 2009 at 8:40 am 168.James said …

    Why on Earth do you people always link god with the christian bible?
    All the arguments and ‘proofs’ (that claim made me laugh) are anti-biblical, nothing more. You must serious stop thinking so highly of yourself. You are not disproving the existence of something other than that which is quantifiable, you are just ranting about some old book.
    Shame this comment will never get read, after all people like you don’t want a dialogue, then all your ideas would quickly be crushed.

  169. on 07 Nov 2009 at 1:02 am 169.Jo Reader said …

    Hi there,

    just to let you know about our new reading blog.

    http://www.whydoweread.co.uk

    We’re non-profit a free thinkers reading blog that promote education and learning, philosophy, science, scepticism and atheism. We’re looking to swap promotion and to raise awareness of our reading lists. We are visitors to your blog and would like 2 things.

    Firstly to help swap audiences (we’re getting on average 5k visits a day at present) we’re open to exchanging banners and links.

    Secondly to get reading lists off people. We’d love to know any books you recommend as a recommendation is very powerful on the web and we know we can use it to help spread the word. (I sound positively evangelical!)

    Thanks for your time and keep up the great work.

    Jo

  170. on 17 Nov 2009 at 2:30 pm 170.Anonymous said …

    Fools, all of you. Enjoy your life without God. You’ll find out in the end, that if God is real, you have lost everything, and if he is not, you have lost nothing.

    If God does not exist, then morality, charity and love does not exist. So go ahead…go out, screw people over, rape, steal, kill and pillage…there is no consequence, and you’d be stupid not to. Why live a “good” life? Get what you want, however you can, as soon as you can. Because that is all you have to live for.

    Eventually you’ll find out that you lose it all, and you’ll never make sense out of it.

  171. on 17 Nov 2009 at 2:40 pm 171.Anonymous said …

    God doesn’t answer your prayers sometimes because it is NOT ABOUT YOU. IT IS NOT ABOUT US, or THIS WORLD either. It is about God. It is the height of human arrogance to say “I don’t believe in God”…God’s existence does not depend on your little pointy head’s agreement or disagreement…or your understanding.

    Keep telling yourself that you are just a happy accident. Gee, come to think of it, why not kill yourself now and save all the trouble of living? You are going to die anyway, right? Why go through all this pain?

    And all this “stuff” you see around you…nature, love, kindness, etc…that’s all just a happy accident too. Took billions of years, but somehow, we just popped up, organized societies and learned to love each other, rather than just kill and be killed as in the animal kingdom.

    Your finite human mind cannot explain what you see, so you say it must be an accident.

    You think of yourself as “creative”, yet you deny a Creator.

    Pathetic, small-minded arrogance. Enjoy your life…what is left of it. And when you are facing death, if you cry for God, He’ll still hear you.

    Morons.

  172. on 17 Nov 2009 at 2:56 pm 172.Anonymous said …

    Don’t confuse God with “religion”. Religion is a man-made path to know God. God did not create religion…man did. However, man did not create God. God is real. Faith is the foundation of our world. Trouble is, that yes, there are a lot of ignorant or evil people that purport to be Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc out there that think they have the key to the universe. These judmental idiots are in every church and they give all the others a bad name. And through these idiots you think you know God, and so you reject Him. Sorry, but you don’t know God…if you did, you would fall to your knees in awe.

    Sure, God will judge you. But nobody knows what that means. And nobody in this life has any clue as to what God’s real will is. Except that it is expressed truly in love, kindness and charity.

    So blow off idiotic religious fanatics if you must. I won’t because most of them mean well, and they need to see the truth too. If I were you, I would err on the side of God though.

    If you open your eyes, you will see that God is love and you have nothing to be afraid of. No matter what you have done. He’ll accept you as-is, if you let Him.

  173. on 17 Nov 2009 at 4:09 pm 173.AntiRoss said …

    What a fine comment from someone who claims to not be a “judmental idiot”.
    (Don’t forget to wipe the drool and spittle off your keyboard and screen).
    Really makes one want to accept Jesus eh? What was ol’ JC’s basic message again?
    Oh yeah!
    “Love me, or burn!”.

  174. on 17 Nov 2009 at 7:03 pm 174.Barney said …

    If you don’t believe in Osiris, and you’re wrong, you will be doomed. Just you wait and see.

    How can you have any morals without believing in Osiris? Go ahead and rape, pillage, etc., but remember that Osiris will judge you.

    Open your eyes to Osiris or you will suffer untold torment. Plus, he loves you.

    etc etc

    blah blah blah

  175. on 27 Nov 2009 at 10:49 pm 175.Vivian Aldana said …

    It is apparent that you have not actually done any real investigations of your own. I have personally witnessed miracles in my own life and the lives of others. I have personally had prayers answered and know others who have had prayers answered. Of course, you probably feel like this verse does not apply to you. “Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:” ~Jeremiah 5: 21

    It really is fine that you don’t believe, because all people will not believe; but to push your conspiracy theory about the Bible, the people who wrote it, and the existence of the Almighty Creator is ridiculous. Remember, it has taken science, billions of years (according to scientists) and they are so far from discovering even the most basic elements about human life. If it’s all science, then where is the evidence of creation? Where is the scientific documentation from billions of years ago? Where is the evidence to support Darwin’s theories? They are non-existent! You speak eloquent words that amount to drivel. They are worthless and meaningless; but my DO THEY SOUND GOOD! Too bad so many people will be swayed by your nonsense.

  176. on 28 Nov 2009 at 6:58 am 176.Vitta said …

    I quote the previous blog:

    “It is apparent that you have not actually done any real investigations of your own… Remember, it has taken science, billions of years (according to scientists) and they are so far from discovering even the most basic elements about human life”.

    Vivian – you are the paramount example of the pot calling the kettle black. First, science is based on reason, quantitative evidence and empirical facts. Meaning? Science is a human construct. Meaning? The anatomically modern human appears in the material record that dates back to approximately 140,000 years ago. For science to have existed, humans would have had to existed. Science has not been around for billions of years, the universe has.

    When you ask for evidence for creation, are you refering to the creation of the universe by a deity? Or are you refering to the beginning of time? It is disputed (in science) whether or not time has a beginning. The prevailing belief is that time and matter have always existed. Also when you ask for documentation from billions of years ago who (or what) do you suggest could have been documenting things???

    Have you ever actually read “On the Origins of Species”? Have you ever gone far enough to even google Darwin’s theories?? Much of Darwin’s work covers breeding practices. Take horse breeding as an example: horse breeders choose to breed certain horses with specific characteristics. They want to control the desired outcome. That is why race horses are often bred, the offspring will likely be fast and agile. There is your proof; breeding happens everyday with horses, birds, dogs, cats, etc….

    The notion put forth in “Origins” is that if this can be controlled (i.e. certain genetic traits that are desired are replicated)in human influenced situations, then why can’t this occur in nature? Animals with more efficient traits (i.e. faster, stronger, smarter, etc.) will be more likely to survive in nature then those that are inherently weaker. This is known as ‘natural selection’.

    Evolution comes into play in a specific population over a LONG period of time (this is where millions of years come from). When reproduction is occuring (I am refering to the process in the womb and not the sexual act itself), there can be mutations in an organisms genetic structure. If the particular mutation gives one animal an advantage over another, the ‘stronger’ animal is more likely to survive and thus reproduce, thus passing on the advantageous mutation to their offspring. This is why evolution takes such a long time.

    Honestly, if you really want to know what it is that you are arguing against you should just Wikipedia Darwin’s theories. Or even better, read his works!

  177. on 19 Dec 2009 at 8:21 pm 177.Brianna said …

    Interesting… I completely disagree with this incredibly — ugh — I really hate this site. I am a 13 year old, 8th grade girl, and have been going to a Baptist Church my whole life. I have to admit, there had been some times where I denied the Lord’s existence altogether, but He has always come back and led me to His path again. I understand the whole idea of one “Living God” sounds really unbelievable, but so does every other stupid religion! I mean, come on! Vivian Aldana, thanks :)

  178. on 19 Dec 2009 at 8:37 pm 178.Brianna said …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfNiZrt5FjU
    go there.
    atheists like science right? OK, this is science, so you cant diss on it. this is just to make all you guys feel small. (im the 13 year old girl)

  179. on 19 Dec 2009 at 8:50 pm 179.Brianna said …

    these are in order.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVxdRrWjh0g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6AB5IvogHc

    OK, so #4 and #37. I read those “proofs that God isn’t real” ya, i thought about them. checked ‘em out. check THIS out.

    just want to point this out…. LEPRECHAUNS???? SERIOUSLY??????? wow….

  180. on 21 Dec 2009 at 10:11 pm 180.hemantisafool said …

    Looks like your website is under attack from supernatural forces…

    http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=2&subcatid=7&threadid=3449994

    you really need to add comment moderation to your blasphemy…

  181. on 26 Dec 2009 at 6:31 pm 181.Alex said …

    Ok this little dusher who mad this f ing website is fucking crazy one to answer your first reason why god is not imaginary buddy is if you pray to god to heal all the cancer in the world in one night he isnt going to do it because it isnt your job to ask forgivness from them most off them are sinners or have done god wrong without repeant and must first find god as their savor in christ and ask that he heals them and god isnt going to do it over night there is no reason to and just because u want it to does not mean its what god wants…we are not worthy of him he mad us in his image and we stabed him in the back and followed satan and became sinners we do what god wants from us and in turn he shall give us all we desire…all that we do not deserve..u see if we do gods will and praise him and do what he asks he will reward us with what we ask and to deal with your problem of “god doesnt answer prayer” god does answer prayer he may not show it to u but he does always. take for instense if u pray to god to get u a new bike he hears it but wont give it to u because its not what he wants for u mabye he wantws u to bring others to christ and prove to them he is real then he may give u the bike as a reward for serving him. to ur third “proof” the egyptain kingdom was marked before the time of christs comming and by that time satan had taken over the hearts of many humans god hoped we would stay stronge with him but we betrayed him away and forgot about him..the egyptain religion was the egytians way of proving and all mighy leader who was have human by the way and could make his people beleive anyghinb he could create in his mind..ok number four the ones who do gods will and praise him and ask for repentance from their sins and their suffering pain and punishment may or may not be cured depending on gods will god does those magical over night cures to remind us he is their..and sience is bent on finding a reason for evreything and having faith in god aperantly isnt reson enough for them…all sience is is figuring out how god dicided to make things how things work the way god mad them. thats all it is..sience may or may not be right but if they say this happend this way not by god i beleive that but i believe that that is how god chose to do it. how he chose to make that miracle happen. ok on to number 5 ok all ur reasoning and bible qotations are crap uve changed soooo many words for one their dude ok well anyway this scripture idely means that all thoughs that put their trust in a mortal man of satan and turn away from god and commet crimes against gods 10 coomandments shall be punished for their actions unless they repent and find god and ask forgiveness for their actions..and siciaty still punishes for those same things to day just things have been taken down a step by sociaty. and god is not stating that slavery is ok but that those who choose to control another man shall not do so forever..and these harsh punishments isued by god were to keep poeple from falling away from him he was becoming angry that almost non of his creations cared for their creater and he began to bring them on track…….true he can be and angry god but he rarly goes to those hights…..and the deval for one and these other human gods are all much worse tempered then the one true god.ok number 6 first off god does not plan abortions people plan abortions evan though god planed somthing people disoba and ignore god and do what they want and have abortions and not man up to the plate and take responsiblity for bringing a life into this world no matter what age. never deterd god plans ur life around the obsticals people throw in..god has the power to make ur life happen the way he planed but he promised people the choice to allow him to do so to do what they wanted.number 7 i would most certainly not and listen ur gay little story comparison is shit…god created us in his image and is here for us to love him and serve him sooo that we may live in heaven for iternity with hime…santa however was a story created entirely off of a hungarian munk who gave presants to the children off hungry and all over eroupe all days of the year this story was used iturpret him and efolved into what it is tod y by the people who were told the story. number 8 these “near death experiances” are somtimes people igmagining things as a reason to why did not dye and other times it is god comming to that person and proving to them that he is real because they are sooo stubern and stuck up to believe the only reason he does not do that infront of all now is becuase noone now a days will believe that not with soo many people going around saying taht they are jesus and have returned sociaty is not ready for another return of jesus.o and god said that he shall return one day and take away all his children from the sin of the world and take them to heaven..if god apears to us causee of a prayer on day then he shall take his children with him and if he has a time planed for that then he shall not do what u ask of him to do when it is not his will to happen then.number 9 it was god who do u think provided the knowledge to humans on how to complete the sergreys who provided the creation of that technology used huh explain that to me how do people learn these things from teachers? yes but were do the teachers learn it? from other teacers…o well where did they learn it? it never ends and endless circle of teachers teaching to other teachers.number 10 because god sayed that ye shall give 10% of ur earnings on this earth to god…god does not need ur money because he has all owns all things and needs nothing…the only reason god wants u to do this is because to get around in this world u need money no exseptons for a church that is what god wants ur money to go to keeping the church open to bring more and more people to god.number 11 god does not leave sienticif effodence of him being real because he chooses not to..him leaving behind things for sience to explain about him is like him explaining himself to us and god does not have to do that we must do that we must explain why we have done what weve done and why we followed the examples of the world ok im gona go to number 14 cause the ones inbetween i already explained and are bull..u shall know when it is god he is not going to return to us as one of us completing his miracle he once did….he shall fly from the heavens and sweep up his children of god and return them to heaven and leave those who dont believe and turn against him to stay in the hell that is to come.number 18 heaven is not imaginable the glorys and rewards found in heaven for us are beyond are imaginations…god has not granted us the power to imagine heaven he wants us to wait and earn the reward.number 19 we ignore god beacause of the fact that god does not do all that we want as fast as we want and we tend to blame him for our problems this is because we are allowing the devil to enter are minds and to monipulate are thoughts and blame hime for it all.number 20 churches are run by man not by god they are run to worship god the devil gets in anywhere anyway he can even churches and prechers he does all he can to bring down the church.number 21 ok dude listen i understand ur reasoning for that and agreee 1 hundred percent but ur soooooooo streching the truth ok jesus died for us to show is eternal love for us….he promises us eternal life in heaven with no sorrow pain hurt nothing but love effection caring and blessings evrthying u would ever want..all he asks in return is we serve him and all he asks us to do to serve him is to bring others to christ that is such a minute thing compared to the rewards we gain.number 22 god wants theses people killed beaceause they are followers of satain and have had many many many chances to repent and come to god all of wich they turned down they spent there changes and mad their choice their for all god was doing was to send them to hell a little erlyer than he had planed….number 26 first understand that the writter of the book is many people disiples of god not god himself his followers writting gods words to them and of his miracles god does know all people do not…number 27 ok lets sum it up this way ok we dont know whats to come after this life we dont but look at it like this ok if ur a hebrew a muslim a budist or a jew what does ur god promise u in the end…hewbrew and muslim’s return to earth to relive another life of hell on this shity earth…budist’s get 7 virgens in heaven,gess what i have 7 virgens here on earth!!!…and the jews dont have anything since noone has come to die for their sins their sinners and sinners cant go to heaven without being saved but jesus…and no religons what do u get huh do u get anything or does it just end thats it boom u die and theres nothing after that that’s just it its over…christians get to live forever in heaven the perfect place no hurt no pain no suffering only love and perfect happyness and all of the wishes of ur desire. number 30 god mad man in HIS image and women to comfort him….therefore god chose man to lead their familys in their choices and safty. that is why i chose god because of what he gives me beacuse of the little i do for him i praise him and try to bring others to christ for him and he rewards me with eternal life in heaven with endless love from all and no pain or suffering and all of my hearts deisres…and he rewards me here on earth to…many things i would of never afforded on my own given by people who feel god wants them to do sooo…a perfect girlfreind who loves me dearly and who has been witgh me since we were both 9 and a loving group of freinds and family who would risk their life for me…the choice is yours u can choose to believe nothing and just have it end..or u can choose god and gain eternal life and the things i have gained from god,a girl,many expensive and desirable things,and a perfect life..the choice is yours…make it

  182. on 03 Jan 2010 at 10:57 pm 182.Chad said …

    Healing of the amputees…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMWa6VQnugw

    1) Does modern technology such as this video qualify as a probable answer to prayer? If not, why?

    2) If technology ultimately answers most of your questions, aside from relationship concerns like divorce,
    would you then change your belief?

    -Point: If God created man and man created technology, it’s assumable he answered the prayer of man through man. He healed people in the bible mostly via the touch of other people-He worked via man as a conduit.

    -Have you come in contact with every single amputee that has prayed for restored limbs? How do you know this has not occurred then? God is clear that he answers those who truly, deeply “believe” which are few and far between.

    -Fewer and fewer soldiers are dying on battlefields due to technology. Compare past great wars to current wars and the decreases in death are staggering.

    -Synthetic foods means fewer and fewer people are starving. It’s interesting that an amoral person sees starvation as a moral issue. Where does your compassion for those who are starving come from, God? If not God, what’s the difference if they do starve, they are just dying biomass and soon to be dust.

    -Bad things happen to all people because that’s life and a fairly ridiculous question. Jesus is assumed to be the ultimate “good” person and he was murdered. Joseph became a slave, Moses banished from Egypt, Mary forced to watch her son die, the list goes on.

    -The divorce rate is high among those who “claim” to be Christians. Clearly there are as many who claim to be Christians – 85% of Americans or so – that do not meet the biblical definition of “Christian” skewing the numbers. This is also a recent issue and likely the result of American cultural influence of tolerance and acceptance of divorce. People who enter the church have been awash in the culture and never let that culture go and embrace Christ.

    3) Also, curious as to why you spend so much time trying to disprove something you don’t believe in? Is this not the ultimate in poor logic? I don’t believe in aliens and have no interest in disproving their existence. The “college educated person” would see the greater opportunity is to prove the existence of God not disprove it. Funny how the logically minded will spend billions to prove aliens exist and disprove God.

    4) ) Jesus is not college educated and his followers are run of the mill laborers so why the interest from and educated person such as yourself?

    6) Regarding slavery, did God not tell Egypt to “let my people go?” To call God a “huge proponent” of slavery is misleading and foolish. Conversely, you see slavery only from the eyes of an American who viewed Roots one time too many. Many who were slaves were poor and uneducated people and this form of life did provide food and shelter, if nothing else. There was no capitalistic system in place as we have now that provided mass opportunity to all. If you wear a pair of Nike’s or buy a diamond, you may have purchased a product made or mined by a modern “slave” does that make you a proponent of slavery?

    7) Jesus did not leave behind any evidence except that 500 people claim to have seen him after he was entombed. Is the greatest evidence of his miracles the fact that 2010 years later you are debating Him because those uneducated followers saw Him alive after death and vigorously spread the word?

    8) Jesus has never appeared to me – unless you count sleeping dreams – but he appeared to masses of people in human form in his own time on earth and I accept their testimony about Him. How do we know Darwin really existed? Has he ever appeared to you? No, you have a credible record that he existed and, I assume, blindly believe in the near “religion” he left you.

    9) Eat his body and drink his blood – now, come on – an educated person should understand this as metaphor. The bread representing the body and the wine his blood.

    10) It seems you are the one inventing rationalizations to disbelieve in God logically because somewhere, somehow,
    you cannot disprove Him in your hardened heart. There’s something written in your DNA that just can’t shake the fingerprint of the creator.

    Regards

  183. on 04 Jan 2010 at 1:34 am 183.Severin said …

    Chad 182
    Point 2), subpoint 3
    „-Have you come in contact with every single amputee …..“
    Can you imagine what would any church (religion) do if there were a single and slightest sign of healing of a single amputee ever? Even if it happened 2000 years ago, propaguers of all religion would untill today „drum“ about it, each of them attributing such an event to HIS god, of course.
    Jesus supposedly made vine from water, and such a circus performance entered Bible as a proof he was a god!
    No healed amputees in Bible, neither at any historical book or note.

    Point 3)
    „…why you spend so much time trying to disprove something you don’t believe in?“

    Because religions are DANGEROUS.
    They (religions) are responsible for almost all evil deeds on this planet during almost entire history of human race, BECAUSE THEY WERE IN POWER and ruled the world.
    No unreligious people were in power some 7-8000 years of human history, so they can not be responsible for those deeds:
    Religious wars, people masacred (tortured, burnt) just beacause they said something agains religion (including scientists), slavory supported by religion, science suppressed by religions, freedom of thinking and speach brutally suppressed, etc, etc, etc.
    Since religions have no such power in some countries, those countries live much better. Compare South America (1% atheists) and UK (35% atheists), then comapare both with Afganistan.

    Point 9)
    Do we have to understan as a methaphor god’s orders to kill (stone) a women whose husband proves she was not virgin before she married. Or his detailed (and disgusting) instructions about how to give him offerings? Or his many and many orders for killing and masacring people, including children?
    How could YOU know what is methaphor and what is not.
    On the other hand, if you have possibility/right to choose by your free will which parts of Bible are methapores, and which are not, then Bible is a very incomplete and confuse book (which it really is).
    How an incomplete and confuse books can be taken seriously or obeyed?
    Because, if you can make your choices among Bible verses to call some of them „methaphors“ and the other – what?- the truths(?), then everybody else has such a possibility anf right.
    And using the same right you are taking for yourself, I take the complete Bible as nonsense.

    Point 10)

    “… somehow, you cannot disprove Him in your hardened heart….“
    I think you can it better!
    I think that deep in your intelligent mind you understand religions are bullshit, but you are afraid to admit it to yourself.
    Did you read the Site?

  184. on 18 Jan 2010 at 5:27 am 184.Jennifer said …

    “…In order to possess that absolute certainty, one must be all-knowing (omniscient). In order to be omniscient, one must be (a) God. If one is (a) God, then one would be most certainly cognizant of one’s own existence. Therefore, logic clearly dictates that atheists do not exist…”

    No.

    Using that logic, theists do not exist either.

    An atheist is simply the opposite of a theist. Theists acknowledge the existence of a god. Atheists deny the existence of a god.

    Neither theists nor atheists can claim absolute certainty. Theists base their acknowledgement on faith. Atheists can do the same.

    The word faith ultimately means “to trust without question”, and linguistically does not have religious roots.

    Two definitions to satisfy both “sides”:
    1) belief and trust in and loyalty to God
    2) firm belief in something for which there is no proof

  185. on 18 Jan 2010 at 6:05 am 185.Jennifer said …

    “OK, so i swear to you by my last dying breath that i will hunt you down and kill you!”

    Lovely. Your hypocrisy is astounding.

  186. on 18 Jan 2010 at 1:44 pm 186.Horatio said …

    “1) Does modern technology such as this video qualify as a probable answer to prayer? If not, why?”

    For me yes, for an atheist no. God could use lightning to write their name across the sky and they would claim, “We don’t know what caused it but we will”. Science IS their God. So they really are no different other than their God is limited in power and has no intelligence.

    It is illogical and ridiculous but it is what it is.

  187. on 18 Jan 2010 at 3:09 pm 187.Severin said …

    Horatio 186
    „So they really are no different other than their God is limited in power and has no intelligence.”

    Your god did circus performances (water – wine) to prove himself a god (acording to Bible). If he knew something better, such as writing across the sky, he would do it. Propaganda is powerfull tool!
    He did not, because he does not exist.
    Throw away your mobile phone, do not use GPS, don’t go to seak medical help, don’t use electricity,…. All those are achievments of unintelligent scientists (and some 99% of them are atheists!)

  188. on 18 Jan 2010 at 3:32 pm 188.Horatio said …

    “some 99% of them are atheists!”

    The rest of your statement is ridiculous as well. But THIS one is great! You do know the diffeence between scientist and science …right? What about historical scicne and observational science? Oh well never mind.

    Now Severin, being the intelligent individual that you are you would want to back up THIS number “99%” with facts, hard evidence lets just say proof. I look forward to you link.

  189. on 18 Jan 2010 at 3:45 pm 189.Lou said …

    http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html

    http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_are_scientists_atheists.html#7WblvcwXl1CA

    Conclusion? Severin is just another dishonest propagandist who just pulls numbers out of the air to utilize the “appeal to authority” fallacy to support his nonsense. He is really attempting to convince himself.

  190. on 18 Jan 2010 at 4:10 pm 190.Jennifer said …

    “Science IS their God”

    No.
    Science and God are not interchangeable.

    That statement is attempting to assign a god for the godless.

    Atheists do not have a god… by any name or of any type.

    Just as theists cannot comprehend a universe without a god, Atheists cannot comprehend a universe with one.

    Equal yet opposite. Beautiful.

  191. on 18 Jan 2010 at 5:33 pm 191.Severin said …

    “I look forward to you link.”
    A soon as you provide evidences that god exists!

  192. on 18 Jan 2010 at 5:54 pm 192.Severin said …

    “Conclusion? Severin is just another dishonest propagandist ….”

    My figures are my Bible! Theya should not be taken literally!

  193. on 18 Jan 2010 at 7:02 pm 193.Severin said …

    Lou, Horatio,
    Just for the record:
    Neither I nor any atheist I know have evidences that god does not exist.
    We do not offer such evidences.
    I/we claim nothing more and nothing less, but that probability of existance of god is too small to be considered as possible, taking in account and comparing scientific achievments of today with bullshits religions offer as „arguments“ in favour of god’s existance (biblical bullshits, bullshitting of other religious books, and “modern approaches” of churches).

    That is the reason I/we do not believe in god.
    That is all we claim: that we do not believe in unnatural beings/forces of any kind, including god(s).

    Additinally, most of us atheists consider religions as highly dangerous phenomenon, not less dangerous than drogs, deseases…..in fact much more dangerous than that.
    I can offer as much as you wish arguments for such an opinion of mine, but you also can find some on these pages too.

    That is the main reason, at least for myself, to persist in debating with brainwashed morons here: maybe not all of them are totally brainwashed, and maybe my debate will save someone from illness called religion.
    One is better than none!

    Among normal honest people it is expected to offer evidences for their claims.
    As we (atheists) do not claim anything (we just do not believe!), but YOU claim all the time that god exists, can you please finally provide some evidences for your claims?
    No?
    Thank you, you get an „F“, and we are all looking forward you to find some, to welcome you back to debate.

    Times are behind us when I would have to pretend to believe what you claimed, under the threat of death.
    You think whatever a bullshitter claims, we are obligate to take for granted!
    You are wrong.
    Come nicely and politely with some evidences for your claims, as a ticket for further debate.
    I can not (and I would not if I could) forbid you to debate the way you started, but you are making yourself fools, and nobody will ever continue such a violent repeating of claims without arguments, piquantly spiced with personal insults and helpless anger.

  194. on 18 Jan 2010 at 7:12 pm 194.Severin said …

    Maybe a small lesson in debating, as a sign of my good will:
    “The rest of your statement is ridiculous as well” is not an argument, but another claim.

    Why are those statement ridiculous, was neither explained nor argumented, except if you think “Severin is just another dishonest propagandist…” is an evidence/argument.

  195. on 18 Jan 2010 at 9:24 pm 195.Horatio said …

    I gave you all day Severin. Will you provide a reference for you 99% or is it just more garbage you can’t back up. Debating 1010 would admonish you to back your claims.

  196. on 18 Jan 2010 at 10:19 pm 196.Severin said …

    Horatio 195
    “I gave you all day Severin.”
    Thank you for your grace.
    I am trembling while thinking what could happen to me if I betry it!

    I told you not to take my numbers literally!
    If Bible may use „style figures“, why would it be forbidden to me?
    At least I did not use „style figures“ that order killing of chldren and stoning of non-virgin brides.

    And I told you that I will provide you with right numbers immediatelly after I see your evidences that god exists – because you claim it, I do not!

  197. on 18 Jan 2010 at 10:32 pm 197.Horatio said …

    Just as I thought. Another claim from an atheist he cannot support. Good science there severin. Why not just claim 100%? Why not claim you have proof God does not exist? Exactly how is your methodology any different from a liar? Nice try attempting to change the subject but you cased is dismissed for perjury.

  198. on 18 Jan 2010 at 10:55 pm 198.Severin said …

    „Severin is just another dishonest propagandist…“

    Yes I use all my potential to fight religions (but ONLY by words, not by killing and torturing!), but why am I dishonest? Beacause I use numbers figuratively, not literally?

    What about organized religions which „yesterday“ claimed god made a man from dirt and women from his rib, and KILLED people stating oposite, and
    today, they „accept“ scientific achievments about evolution, and Big Bang.

    They are so arrogant, that they NEVER tried to make some researches of their own!
    They offer NOTHING what one could call their achievment, result of their scientific researches, but STEAL existing scientific achievments and remake them to fit their „teachings“.
    Something like this: yes, we recognize NOW there was a Big Bang, and we admit evolution is no more just a theory (because SCIENTISTS provided so many evidences, that churches could not just „sell“ bullshits any longer), but god was first to create it all.
    Like children (but dangerous ones!).

    Why those arrogant organizations did not offer their own big bangs, and evolutions BEFORE scientists did, but stole the idea, and are trying to make them fit, somehow, to their insane theories, some 5000-10000 years old?

    If the Big bang and evolution are right, why churches (organized religions, plural!) first teached people shits? Why did they not offer their own big bang and evolution, instead of biblical bullshits and horror, much BEFORE scientists?
    If I am dishonest, churches are moral monsters!

  199. on 18 Jan 2010 at 11:53 pm 199.Lou said …

    Have you ever seen a guy dance around his claims as quick as Severin?

    I claim 99.9% of all Severin’s are dangerous, delusional and disturbed.

  200. on 19 Jan 2010 at 12:07 am 200.Jennifer said …

    Does this help?

    “…Disbelief in God and immortality among NAS biological scientists was 65.2% and 69.0%, respectively, and among NAS physical scientists it was 79.0% and 76.3%. Most of the rest were agnostics on both issues, with few believers…”

    I think it’s safe to say that a majority of scientists are atheist or at least agnostic but, naturally, not all.

    In short, Severin’s comment was inaccurate. However, I believe his intent was to express “Majority” or “A lot!”, and I think we all know that.

  201. on 19 Jan 2010 at 9:19 am 201.Severin said …

    “I think it’s safe to say that a majority of scientists are atheist or at least agnostic but, naturally, not all.”

    That was my point, thank you!
    But in lack of anything better Lou and Horatio are splitting hairs to turn everybody’s attention from the real point.
    They are spliting hairs about numbers, but NEVER provide any evidence for their claims, even when somebody gives them enough material for debating.
    Typical!

  202. on 19 Jan 2010 at 9:41 am 202.Severin said …

    “…and among NAS…”

    And in European countries the numbers are still closer to my deliberately overstated aproximation.

    Thank you anyway!

    From the „hair splitters“ no will to talk real problems I exposed and offered for debate in „Severin 198“ and some other comments.
    No! They are able only to call names, repeat themselves and split hairs about unimportant issues.
    Typical!

  203. on 19 Jan 2010 at 10:09 am 203.Severin said …

    “Just as I thought. Another claim from an atheist he cannot support.”

    „I am happy when fools are trying to offend me. Then everybody knows I am right“ (W. Churchil)

    I dare you to make a single claim of your own (if any!). Courrage, guys! Take a risk!

    But I doubt it is in your character to have any opinion of your own!

  204. on 19 Jan 2010 at 4:14 pm 204.Jennifer said …

    From Lou: “Have you ever seen a guy dance around his claims as quick as Severin?”

    Yes, actually. Every one of my Catholic family members when it comes to discussing their religion. This makes for very exciting family gatherings. The only ones who do not “dance”, do not speak about it.

    From Severin: “They are spliting hairs about numbers, but NEVER provide any evidence for their claims, even when somebody gives them enough material for debating.”

    Agreed. It seems the percentage is being taken at face value and the “error” is being used to redirect the argument.

    The number (whatever percentage it is) of atheist scientists is irrelevant. Just because there is a majority of anything doesn’t make it true or right. (ie: Christianity)

  205. on 19 Jan 2010 at 4:37 pm 205.Lou said …

    Um 31% vs 99%? Splitting hairs? That is like claiming Lake Erie is just a fishing hole. Tsk tsk, the dishonesty of those who will lie just to make a unsubstantiated point is sad.

    Since you resort to the “appeal to authority” issue to prop up atheism, let do the same by (with support) claiming most scientist are theist of some kind. Therefore, the theist argument is now the correct one.

    Severin, I will gladly support any claim I have made. Kindly post it I shall back my assertion. I don’t resort to lies and half-truths to make my points.

  206. on 19 Jan 2010 at 5:05 pm 206.Jennifer said …

    31%?

    “Disbelief in God and immortality among NAS biological scientists was 65.2% and 69.0%, respectively”

    I think your math is wrong.

    31% would consist of the Agnostics AND theists combined.

    This is only a US study. As Severin said, the numbers in European nations are likely higher.

  207. on 19 Jan 2010 at 5:12 pm 207.Jennifer said …

    Lou – You may not lie, but you attempt to spin well.

  208. on 19 Jan 2010 at 9:40 pm 208.Lou said …

    You need to review the study done by Elaine Ecklund, and Christopher Scheitle. The average across scientific fields is 31%. When we refer to scientist we don’t typically refer to one field. Not only do I not lie or spin but I look at total picture.

    You may also want to consider the pressure scientist are under to not reveal their beliefs if they are a theist. Being in a university system myself, I know it to be evident.

    Why would I care what the Euros believe? Why not claim “The Middle East has a very high belief in God.”

    You and Sev can play this number game all you like but you only continue in said fallacy. I only pointed out the lie and distortion of which Sev has a reputation for on the blog. He simply makes up numbers.

  209. on 20 Jan 2010 at 2:58 am 209.Jennifer said …

    Lou: “You need to review the study done by Elaine Ecklund, and Christopher Scheitle. ”

    Thank you. I did find some information regarding their research. Although I have not gone through it completely, I will continue reading because it is very interesting.

    Lou:”You may also want to consider the pressure scientist are under to not reveal their beliefs if they are a theist. Being in a university system myself, I know it to be evident”

    Here is a clip from the Ecklund and Scheitle study.

    Clip:["Our study data do not strongly support the idea that scientists simply drop their religious identities upon professional training, due to an inherent conflict between science and faith, or to institutional pressure to conform," Ecklund says."]

    With no ill intent, may I ask what your role is in the university system? Educator, Student, Office Staff, Custodian, Administrator? I wouldn’t normally consider one’s career relevant, but it was entered it into the discussion as evidence. These scientists are pressured to not reveal their beliefs, yet you are privy to them?

    Lou: “Why would I care what the Euros believe?”

    Because it matters. We need to “look at total picture” (your words). I actually worded the statement you were responding to, poorly. I meant European scientists. I did not mean the European population. We were discussing Scientists, so I mistakenly assumed the context would be known. The total picture would include all scientists from all countries. This data we do not have, so the argument cannot be proven one way or the other.

    My original assumption was incorrect, anyway (see clip below) It appears – according to your referenced study – that the percentage is pretty constant regardless of how religious/non-religious the country from where the scientist was born. What this percentage is, yet, I do not know – I’m still reading.

    Clip:["Foreign-born scientists are more likely to say "there is little truth in religion" and less likely to attend religious services, according to the authors. But being foreign-born had no significant impact on the odds of believing in God. This is interesting, they say, in light of the high percentage (25 percent) of foreign-born scientists among those surveyed."]

    Lou: “…Why not claim “The Middle East has a very high belief in God.”

    Because I am making no claims. I was making a personal guess based on the information I have available to me. That felt a little like a spin on my words. However, I understand the point you were making.

    Lou:”You and Sev can play this number game…”

    I’m not exactly sure what is meant by “number game”? Severin acknowledged his percentage inaccuracy.

    I originally thought the 31% you came up with was a miscalculation from my previous post. Would you mind showing me where, in the study, this 31% is mentioned – it will save me a lot of reading, and it’s getting late.

  210. on 20 Jan 2010 at 7:49 pm 210.Lou said …

    Jenn,

    I think you miss the point in a large way. The numbers for me are irrelevant. Many have attempted to do this type of study and have come up with a wide variety of numbers. To me, they hold zero validity. Severin has in the past just thrown out some number on subject matters on which he obviously has no clue. He got called out on this one. Simple really

    If you don’t believe many theist are pressured to keep their religious views quiet then you are probably an atheist and probably not involved in the public university setting. I have spoken to enough individuals to know of what I speak. Dawkins has even questioned the scientific judgment of Francis Collins simply because he is a Christian.

    If you like the fallacy and the numbers mean something of great importance to you then enjoy. You can find just about any number between 20%-80% depending on the bias you care to embrace. You can even find %99 but only from Severin.

  211. on 21 Jan 2010 at 1:26 am 211.Jennifer said …

    Lou:”I think you miss the point in a large way.

    Do I? I was under the impression your point was to prove Severin’s percentage wrong – which you have yet to do. It was, I, who provided data to support the argument (yours) that his percentage wrong. You provided nothing. If that is not your point, then please explain to me precisely what point you are trying to make.

    Lou:”The numbers for me are irrelevant.”
    Are they? Then why is it so important to reference and re-reference Severin’s 99%, which he already admitted was inaccurate. After I (not you) “called him out” with supporting data.

    Lou:”Many have attempted to do this type of study and have come up with a wide variety of numbers.”
    This may be the only fully accurate statement you have made, thus far.

    Lou:”To me, they hold zero validity.”
    Then you probably won’t be interested in the data I found to [somewhat] support your argument.

    Lou:”Severin has in the past just thrown out some number…”
    At this point, you have done the same. You have thrown out numbers with no data to back it up. I have found all the data that has been presented in this particular argument.

    Lou:”He got called out on this one. Simple really”
    And, now I’m calling YOU out.

    Lou:”If you don’t believe many theist are pressured to keep their religious views quiet then you are probably an atheist and probably not involved in the public university setting.”

    This is not about what “I” do or do not believe. To argue for or against something does not require that you agree with what you are arguing about. Whether I am an atheist (or agnostic or theist) isn’t relevant to this particular argument. I AM involved in the “public university setting”, and have been since 1989.

    If I had to state my opinion on whether I believe theist [scientists] are pressured to keep their religious views quiet, I would have to base my opinion on the information found in study YOU recommended I read. The study surveyed 1646 scientists (75% of whom responded), and found no evidence to support “pressure” to hide beliefs”. Does this study prove that scientists are not pressured? No. Does it provide data to support the argument that they are not pressured? Yes. The study holds much more weight than your claim “to know of what I speak”, because you provide no data and the study does.

    Lou:”Dawkins has even questioned the scientific judgment of Francis Collins simply because he is a Christian.”
    So? Did that pressure Collins into hiding his beliefs? Nope.

    Lou:”If you like the fallacy and the numbers mean something of great importance to you then enjoy.”

    What fallacy are you referring to? Numbers are important when they are entered into an argument to assist in making a point. You’ve been referencing and using numbers the whole time?

    Lou:”You can find just about any number between 20%-80% depending on the bias you care to embrace. You can even find %99 but only from Severin.”

    If numbers are so irrelevant, why do you keep using them… and changing them… ?

  212. on 21 Jan 2010 at 1:43 am 212.Vincent Truman said …

    I believe it was the great philosopher Socrates who remarked unto the legislators of his time who were trying to make up and change laws and data only when it was convenient to them: “Pwned!!1!!”

  213. on 21 Jan 2010 at 2:56 am 213.Lou said …

    “It was, I, who provided data to support the argument (yours) that his percentage wrong. You provided nothing.”

    Really Jenn? So you just completely missed the links way back in 189 that I posted? That pretty much sums up how alert you have been. Nuff said eh.

    Jenn, the number is not important, lies are important. Do you understand the distinction? Why would you defend lies? I explained why lying is important, not the number so much. If you are OK with those who lie and distort have at it Jenn.

    Let us know if you have anything of substance to add.

  214. on 21 Jan 2010 at 3:39 am 214.Horatio said …

    I’m sensing Jennifer is actually Severin. Nobody can be this paranoid about taking up for a guy who has repeatedly used false data to support his desired end.
    How else can he falsify numbers but still attempt to make himself legitimate?

    Why would Francis Collins need to hide his faith? I think he has “made it” in the scientific world. Dawkins opinion really means nothing to Collins. An unknown would have cause to be concerned.

  215. on 21 Jan 2010 at 4:01 am 215.Jennifer said …

    I am more than willing to admit when I am wrong, and you are correct… I missed those links. I apologize for saying that you did not produce that data. Those links were actually among some of the same articles I had found as well.

    However, missing one post in a very long thread does not mean I am not alert. Why did you wait this long to inform me that I had missed that post with important information?

    If you are going to question my alertness, then I must question yours, as well.

    You seem to have conveniently disregarded most of my counters to your many other statements. Did you miss those, or did you blatantly ignore them because they did not support the individual point you were atemptting to make at that time? You’ve also ignored almost every question I have put to you, yet I have answered all of yours. With the exception of the ones I didn’t quite understand, in which case I asked for clarification. Which brings me to this question…

    What lies are you referring to? You have mentioned lies a few times, but have never specifically said what they are. (aside from the 99%)

    To my knowledge, I haven’t defended any lies. Feel free to point them out to me, if I have. I have detailed everything I have felt required further explanation throughout our discussion, and given you the opportunity to retort.

    This last response from you has a very condescending tone, and I do not appreciate it. I have been respectful, and I expect the same in return. You seem angry. I’ll back off for a while.

  216. on 21 Jan 2010 at 4:23 am 216.Jennifer said …

    “I’m sensing Jennifer is actually Severin.”

    No. Is there ANY similarity in his/her method of writing and mine? From the 2-3 comments I’ve read of his, the answer is no.

    “Nobody can be this paranoid about taking up for a guy who has repeatedly used false data to support his desired end.”

    Paranoid? I’m simply asking questions asking Lou to support his statements. Which he has done on the percentage. I’m not aware of Severin’s historic posts. I wasn’t talking him up, either. I’m not sure where you got that impression. I called him out on his error just as Lou did.

    “How else can he falsify numbers but still attempt to make himself legitimate?”

    He admitted his number was wrong. Whether he purposely “falsified” his percentage, I do not know, but he made good on the error by admitting it. Publically. Anyway… according to Lou, the numbers are irrelevant, so it doesn’t matter anyway.

    “Why would Francis Collins need to hide his faith? I think he has “made it” in the scientific world. Dawkins opinion really means nothing to Collins. An unknown would have cause to be concerned.”

    He doesn’t. That was my point. You may need to re-read that part of the discussion.

  217. on 21 Jan 2010 at 4:55 pm 217.Lou said …

    Jenn, I’m grateful you admit to your fault but how would I know you missed it until you make an outright false accusation? My tone is an issue with you? on a blog?

    Next, no Francis Collins does not need to tone down his Christianity because he is Francis Collins! Not all scientist looking to become the next Collins can be so open. get it? I appeal to personal experience in this area so you can accept it or ignore it. Either is fine by me.

    The fallacy Severin and possibly you formulate your arguments on is the Fallacy of Appeal to authority. I don’t have time to explain it but it is easy enough to look up or a good deductive logic course.

    Lastly Severin didn’t just falsify numbers, he randomly just throws out a figure as truth with no clue if they might even be supported. Feel free to look at some other threads where he has done the same. The real number (to me) is irrelevant since I believe such studies are based on the assumptions the respondents will be honest with their responses. It is a personal matter and a emotionally charged discussion. I have my doubts ans so do many others.

  218. on 21 Jan 2010 at 10:52 pm 218.Jennifer said …

    Lou: “Jenn, I’m grateful you admit to your fault but how would I know you missed it until you make an outright false accusation?”

    If it was not obvious that I had missed it before, post #209 (at least) should have been an indication when I said:

    ["Would you mind showing me where, in the study, this 31% is mentioned - it will save me a lot of reading, and it’s getting late." ]

    Lou: “My tone is an issue with you? on a blog?”

    If your tone is condescending or disrespectful, yes. I have a problem with that.

    Lou: “Next, no Francis Collins does not need to tone down his Christianity because he is Francis Collins!”

    Agreed. I’ve never argued to the contrary.

    Lou:”The fallacy Severin and possibly you formulate your arguments on is the Fallacy of Appeal to authority…”

    Were you not doing the same? Did you not post the links to that study as your response to support your argument that Severin’s number was wrong?

    There are quite a few fallacies in this discussion that can be drawn into examples. You are not exempt from having used them.

  219. on 21 Jan 2010 at 11:32 pm 219.Horatio said …

    Jennifer/Severin

    You miss a post and somehow you try to throw back at someone else.

    Sev has attempted to justify atheism with his 99% of all scientist are atheist comment. Care to show where any theism of any sort is propped up using the same methodology. You claim you name it. Posting a link to show a false number is NOT a fallacy.

  220. on 22 Jan 2010 at 3:37 am 220.Jennifer said …

    “You miss a post and somehow you try to throw back at someone else.”

    I admitted already that I missed the post. That has been covered. Requesting that someone backup the things they say throughout a discussion or debate is not “throwing” back.

    “Posting a link to show a false number is NOT a fallacy.”

    The act of posting the link is not a fallacy. However using that link as supporting evidence, is.

    Severin’s 99% is an Appeal to Authority (himself, since not data was provided), and is therefore a fallacy. This is true.

    Lou also used an Appeal to Authority when he referenced the study and used the data from that Authority in his argument to show that the 99% was incorrect.

    Now, it is possible that Lou’s Appeal to Authority is NOT a fallacy, because the information does come from a trusted source.

    They both used Appeal to Authority (as did I), Severin’s appeal was fallacious, and Lou’s (and my) appeal may or may not be.

  221. on 22 Jan 2010 at 1:17 pm 221.Lou said …

    Wow, Good luck with Jenn Horatio. I honestly tried but she obviously does not understand the fallacy and refuses to look it up. If I am not mistaken, she believes any appeal to authority is fallacious. Stay away from those fallacious physicians!

  222. on 22 Jan 2010 at 2:34 pm 222.Jennifer said …

    ” If I am not mistaken, she believes any appeal to authority is fallacious. Stay away from those fallacious physicians!”

    You are mistaken.

  223. on 23 Jan 2010 at 8:51 pm 223.Severin said …

    1.Jennifer = Severin = false. Compare her English to mine and you will see big difference (I bet English is her native languege, and I am self-taught). Compare also her debating style with mine.
    2.Some numbers:
    http://creationwiki.org/Atheism
    The scientific community, above any other subgroup of the population, has become overwhelmingly atheistic. According to a 1998 report in Nature, a survey by Edward Larson found that, “among the top natural scientists, disbelief is greater than ever; almost total. ”
    Interestingly, the biologists in the National Academy of Sciences were found to possess the lowest rate of belief of all the science disciplines, with only 5.5% believing in God.[4]

  224. on 23 Jan 2010 at 8:53 pm 224.Severin said …

    Continued
    http://www.asa3.org/aSA/topics/AboutScience/does_science_lead_to_atheism.html
    Larson and Witham found that nearly 50 percent of the scientists and nearly 75 percent of the “greater” scientists surveyed disbelieve in both God and immortality. An additional 15-20 percent are doubters

    http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/atheism/distribution-of-atheists.html
    It is particularly prevalent among scientists, a tendency already quite marked at the beginning of the 20th century, developing into a dominant one during the course of the century. In 1914, James H. Leuba found that 58% of 1,000 randomly selected U.S. natural scientists expressed “disbelief or doubt in the existence of God”. The same study, repeated in 1996, gave a similar percentage of 60.7%; this number is 93% among the members of the National Academy of Sciences. Expressions of positive disbelief rose from 52% to 72%. http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html (See also The relationship between religion and science).
    So I did not lie, but – as I said – only overstated some numbers as a “style figure”.

    You did lie by stating your 31% without any reference.

  225. on 23 Jan 2010 at 9:53 pm 225.Severin said …

    205 Lou + Horatio
    “Severin, I will gladly support any claim I have made.“

    I carefully read your “debates“ and the only claims of yours I found are listed here:
    „…Severin is just another dishonest propagandist…“
    „…The rest of your statement is ridiculous as well.“
    „…or is it just more garbage you can’t back up.“
    „…I claim 99.9% of all Severin’s are dangerous, delusional and disturbed.“
    „…Tsk tsk, the dishonesty of those who will lie just to make a unsubstantiated point is sad.
    „…The average across scientific fields is 31%.“
    „…He simply makes up numbers.“
    „…The numbers for me are irrelevant.“ (but you calimed your 31% anyway)
    „…lies are important“ (So why then do you lie?)
    „…Nobody can be this paranoid about…“
    Etc…
    Your „debate“ looks like a joke:
    Severin: I saw a 400 kg piano falling on a guy’s head
    Lou/Horatio: Severin is a lier! Piano had only 330 kg!

    You are avoiding any discussion about essence of this debate.

  226. on 24 Jan 2010 at 4:25 am 226.Horatio said …

    Deabte? Debates are two way. You attempted to lie, you were caught. You again utilize the dame fallacy (appeal to authority) to somehow bolster atheism. To even make you fallacy legitimate you would have to prove scientist were somehow experts in the existence of God. You have not.

    I see no debate here, only fallacies of which you continue to propose.

  227. on 24 Jan 2010 at 7:24 am 227.Severin said …

    226 Horatio
    „Debates are two way“
    So you have seen my way, what is yours?
    Can you explain how did you know my 99.9% was a „lie“?
    If you dont explain it, my number is correct and you are a lier.
    On what numbers/sources did you appeal to call me a lier?
    What numbers ARE correct in case that mine are not?

    What is YOUR point? What are YOU saying?
    If we move your pure unargumented negations, attacks and insults out of your debate, there remains nothing there.
    No opinion, no attitude, no arguments, NOTHING!
    You call it a debate?
    Piano was not of 400 but of 330 kg, but it DID smash the guy’s head.

  228. on 24 Jan 2010 at 12:55 pm 228.Horatio said …

    “Can you explain how did you know my 99.9% was a „lie“?”

    No supporting facts. I am not required to prove your point. You are,

    “What is YOUR point? What are YOU saying?”

    You dishonestly make up numbers to build a strawman.

    “You call it a debate?”

    No, you did. I claim you are dishonest.

  229. on 24 Jan 2010 at 7:29 pm 229.Severin said …

    Horatio 228
    To claim there is a god without arguments is only stupid, as expected from a disarmed believer.

    To call somebody a lier without arguments is dishonest, except in case you are a 5 years old stubborn child or mentally disabled adult.

    I forgive you anyway, even in case you are just a stupid and dishonest adult.

    Atheists are generous.

  230. on 24 Jan 2010 at 8:18 pm 230.Lou said …

    lol, good one Horatio. The straw man is in flames.

  231. on 02 Feb 2010 at 2:08 pm 231.RicardoFelippeCantor said …

    I used to believe in God – even trust him. Probably owing to so many repetitions, so many goings to church,so many praising him, so many… Also my parents taking so many times to church. So…

    But presently I am an atheist. My parents do not know exactly about this, I fear hurting their feelings. But it’s been a while I don’t trust the ‘Almighty’. To tell you the truth, I wish no religion existed, I wish
    Human Beings were responsible for this living, for their living, for living the now, this very moment and forgot about such a delusional heaven where they, supposedly the chosen ones, not us ‘the evil ones’, will praise the wonderful god forever and a day!

  232. on 02 Feb 2010 at 3:58 pm 232.Lou said …

    That’s the problem Ricardo. You had a religion instead of a relationship. It happens time and time again. Read the Bible and pray for understanding and accept a relationship with the one who has called ALL men to repentance and fellowship with the one true and living God. It will be the best thing you ever do.

  233. on 02 Feb 2010 at 7:28 pm 233.Severin said …

    Ricardo
    If you never read the Bible, PLEASE do, as carefully as posible!
    If you are uncertain in your atheistic orientation and are a normal person, you will disgust religion immediatelly (and not only christianity, of course, all are the same), by reading what an “allmighty” can order!
    Then read somewhere (Internet) about RELATIONS organized religions used to have to their congregations: killings and masacrings of anyone who dared to have opinion different than them were for milleniums the ONLY relationship they had to their adherents.
    If they did not lose their power, they would do the same today!
    And some religions DO this today too, in some countries.

    Some other religions (catholic church), without any rational explanation, and without EXCUSE for their killing and mascring people for thoughts/words oposite to their “teachings” for centuries, now suddenly have the new “official teching”: they “recognize” Big Bang and evolution! From now on, big bang and evolution (NOT “invented” by them, but by scientists), are their “official opinion”, just “labeled” by their god.
    Hypocrysy, but bloody one!

  234. on 22 Feb 2010 at 1:43 am 234.Charles Wardle said …

    Hi

    I am a New Zealander and converted to Islam in 2001 when I was 18 in Pakistan.

    I was involved with militant Islamic groups while a Muslim and after leaving Islam I worked for the NZ Security and Intelligence Service.

    In June last year I publically left Islam on youtube and ended my work for the NZSIS.

    Police executed a search warrant and I’m currently waiting to hear if they will charge me with having been with LET and Ansar al-Islam in Iraq.

    There was an article in some NZ papers on me:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/2915220/ExmilitantshomesearchedinAuckland

    I recently posted about my work for the NZSIS and made notes I had written for them public as through working with them I doubted their competence.

    I am writing to you to introduce myself and my website.

    My website gets some attention but not that much and I would greatly appreciate any feedback or help you could give me.

    I am committed to constantly trying to learn and improve what I am doing.

    I’m studying a science degree (just finished a BA) and my goal is to be a research scientist and to communicate scientific knowledge to the public.

    I also think that my critical and scientifically guided perspective of my experiences having been an Islamic militant may be of use, especially in communicating with Islamic radicals.

    http://charleswardle.com

  235. on 02 Mar 2010 at 3:14 am 235.Mark Ofshtein said …

    I have a question to a webmaster. Can I have your name and email address? Thanks

  236. on 03 Mar 2010 at 7:09 pm 236.Mark Ofshtein said …

    3.03.10
    Hello, fellow atheist,
    I have a small publishing company called Age of Logic.
    Some time ago, I was presented with a manuscript by an unknown author. At first, I was under the impression (because of the book title – You Will be Forced to Become Wealthy) that this is one of those “get rich schemes”, but I read it nonetheless. When I finished reading, I was so impressed that I decided to publish it.
    I think that the author (Finifid), has a very unique and novel approach to the questions of god (or rather, lack thereof), religion, origin of humanity, our reason for existence, and quite a few other relevant and prominent topics. Moreover, the title (as out of place as it sounds) fits in like a glove.
    True judgment of the book, however, has to be left up to a real pro such as you.
    That is the reason that I am asking you to read the book. If you like what you have read – would you consider administering justice to this work, and posting a review on your website.
    If, on the other hand, you will be critical of it – would you, please, drop me a few lines with your criticism. At any rate, your review, opinion, or critique will be greatly appreciated.
    Thank you in advance. Respectfully yours,
    Mark Ofshtein
    Phone # 305-395-7955
    Email address: markofshtein@aol.com
    Website: http://www.ageoflogic.com

    P.S. Please respond with the address as to where I can mail the book (free of charge, of course). Thank you.

  237. on 11 Mar 2010 at 4:08 am 237.A real-ist said …

    There is a reason why so many people are tricked into believing god exists. When you make something up and say you can’t prove it wrong because we will only know the truth when we die is the biggest escape of reality. So if I say that I become god when I die you can’t argue it isn’t true because you won’t really know until you die if I became god. That is why god and religion is the biggest lie of all time. Just because you want to believe it doesn’t make it true. If something isn’t proven to exist, don’t we all agree that the chances are in the favor it doesn’t exist? I used to be a believer because I was raised that way and then when I had enough life experiences and became educated, it was then when I thought logic through to realize how religion and the belief of god can be created at some point in history to serve other purposes rather than actual reality. If you are a believer I challenge you to look at the reasons why people don’t believe and see if they actually might make some sense.

  238. on 11 Mar 2010 at 2:42 pm 238.Biff said …

    “I used to be a believer because I was raised that way and then when I had enough life experiences and became educated”

    So why do so many educated still follow the various forms of theism? Are you claiming you are just that much brighter? I have a MBA and I still follow theism.

    You claiming to be God has zero history or historical experiences to back up the assertion. God on the other hand has has millenniums of followers, written accounts and events to make theism viable. If you insist on making comparisons at least make the comparisons comparable. This is why the arguments of atheist are typically ignored.

  239. on 11 Mar 2010 at 9:09 pm 239.Observer said …

    237 Biff- “I have a MBA and I still follow theism.” First, an MBA is a bit of vocational training. Even the best MBA programs, such as the UCGSB and Wharton, do not provide much in the way of philosophical training, but rather very good technical training in everyday finance and accounting. This drops off very very quickly on the rankings list.

    The best schools typically require competence in high school English. Given the quote above, should we infer you are from a less than top rank program?

    Your final paragraph is pretty muddled. I might add the English is not too good either for such a well educated person. What are you trying to say? Real-ist is establishing a non-knowable situation, namely that he becomes “God” when he dies. How do you know he doesn’t, unless there is no “God” or the possibility of “God”? I think the probability is exceedingly low that he will become “God” when he dies, but he or she seems like a good altruistic person and who knows? Maybe we will all be surprised.

    By “God on the other hand has has millenniums of followers, written accounts and events to make theism viable. “, if you are trying to say there have been followers for mellennia, this is obviously true. Do you prefer the truth of Vishnu over Jesus since Vishnu precedes Jesus by several centuries? That there are various monuments and slaughters over those same mellennia attesting to the “viability” of theism is also indisputable. While theism is viable, in much the same way tuberculosis and polio are viable microbes which cause disease, there are good folks in society such as myself who are trying to make religion go the way of smallpox.

    The last of your paragraph is gibberish I will not attempt to parse into intelligible language.

  240. on 14 Mar 2010 at 9:05 pm 240.A real-ist said …

    Biff, birds have a history of flying into windows and other birds follow and still do the same. They believe there is an opening to fly through and keep atempting at it, but in reality there is a glass window there that stops them. My point is just because a lot of people in the past believe in something doesn’t mean that is reality. There was a history of believers that thought the earth was flat. Look how that turned out.

  241. on 14 Mar 2010 at 9:33 pm 241.Biff said …

    Birds also often fly through an array of trees and emerge from the other side. So what is the point? You implied you became educated and gave up theism. My point was and still is that education in no way disproves theism. I became a believer during my undergrad years. Unless you can prove the same evidence you and I observe everyday has tricked me into believing in God, you offer no validity in you argument.
    Education, in this instance does not just imply an education in philosophy. We leave that for the BS artist in the world of academia to sort out.

  242. on 14 Mar 2010 at 9:55 pm 242.A real-ist said …

    Have you seen Christ? Have you actually heard Christ? I don’t understand how people can believe something is true without any actual real proof or evidence something even exists. Think about how you actually started believing. Was it because someone had told you about religion way back when? And how did that person start believing? Probably someone told them. And that goes way back to when a group of people started making up the bible and a guy named Jesus who might have been a real person started using David Copperfield magic tricks and people way back then were so gullible and uneducated they believed anything. So why do people have to wait until they die to see what really happens? That is the ultimate escape to the reason why so many people still believe is because of that variable that was created so this would end up being a never ending argument. How lame. Why can’t God show his face now when we have ways to record it for future generations if he is real? Why way back then after we existed for so long of a period already and will in the future. Those 2000 years really is a small amount of time in human existance for him not to wait until we could prove it with video recorders so it if was real everyone would believe and there would be no need for arguement? And why does the bible state things like God created the rainbows and such when we now all know how rainbows are created since we have scientifically advanced since then. Jesus walked across the water? Maybe he was walking on a thin layer of ice far away so others didn’t see the ice. Think about things like that before you just automtically want to believe in something before thinking first. The bible and god were created because people were afraid of dieing (which we know people had a long life if they lived to 30 back then, so death came quicker) and people were killing each other so this was an attempt to stop people from killing. That is the reason why religion formed. Not some God that none of us will ever see until we supposedly die where once we die we turn to dust anyhow since all we are is chemical reactions. Animals all percieve things differently, which doesn’t make us have souls just because we are the smartest of animals and living things. Yeah, we are the most advanced, but if you compare other living things such as bees compared to bacteria, bees are way more advanced. My point in all this is that there are many, many things that need to be considered before one just decides to believe in something just because it makes them feel good. And morals aren’t created be religion, they are created by just man reacting to other man in order for survival. If people really want to believe in a God, go ahead, you can do whatever you want, it is just the people that use relgion to do bad things and make wrong decisions to harm others outside their own beliefs. That is what I have a problem with. Religion is more harmful to society than it helps.

  243. on 15 Mar 2010 at 1:45 am 243.Biff said …

    “Have you seen Christ? Have you actually heard Christ?”

    No, much like Plato and I believe they both existed.

    “Jesus who might have been a real person started using David Copperfield magic tricks”

    Might and Could prove nothing. The written record proves otherwise.

    “Why can’t God show his face now when we have ways to record it for future generations if he is real?”

    He did , in the Bible. If he did today you still wouldn’t believe and the Bible states as much. The fact He didn’t do it YOUR way means little.

    “The bible and god were created because people were afraid of dieing”

    Where is the proof? Where is the proof Jesus walked on ice in a storm no less?

    “bees are way more advanced”

    You think so? A matter of opinion I suppose.

    “before one just decides to believe in something just because it makes them feel good.”

    What makes you believe I just chose to believe in something that makes me feel good? Don’t we all like to feel good? Why do you drink? Because it feels bad? You make a huge number of assumptions on which you have no basis to make. I actually did my due diligence.

    “Religion is more harmful to society than it helps.”

    Depends…..I just got back from Hati a few weeks ago. THey are grateful for us notorious hateful religious types.

  244. on 15 Mar 2010 at 12:02 pm 244.Severin said …

    “No, much like Plato and I believe they both existed.”

    Why then you do not believe in mermates? They are well described in ancient literature (Odyssay).
    Or maybe you do?

    It is absolutely unimportant wether Jesus did or did not exist. In fact, many new archeological and historical discoveries indicate that much more than one “Jesus” existed at the time “reserved” for biblical Jesus. It was the time of some sort of “ancient renaissance” with many “prophets” walking around and preached more or less similar things.

    Christ’s DIVINITY is what counts, and waht the Bible is founded on, and such a thing is of course absolutely untenable/unprovable.
    Who cares if several “christs” walked around 2000 years ago and “preached” nonsenses?

  245. on 15 Mar 2010 at 12:17 pm 245.Severin said …

    “Might and Could prove nothing. The written record proves otherwise.”

    Written records on Egyptian monuments and papyrus documents “prove” their religion right.
    What makes the Bible more relevant than those, and many other similar documents (Maya “stone books”, Persian documents, Greeks, Romans…?

    Zeus is excellently documented in historical documents!

  246. on 15 Mar 2010 at 3:00 pm 246.Lou said …

    “archeological and historical discoveries indicate that much more than one “Jesus” existed at the time “reserved” for biblical Jesus.”

    It been known for centuries that Jesus was a popular name during Biblical times. It is not some new discovery! You don’t have to type things you know nothing about. Sometimes listening and learning is better.

  247. on 15 Mar 2010 at 7:46 pm 247.Observer said …

    Lou- You should rent or buy a copy of “The Life of Brian”. It would help you organize your thoughts on the history of Palestine circa 0CE.

  248. on 16 Mar 2010 at 3:10 pm 248.Lou said …

    (sigh), trolls….

  249. on 16 Mar 2010 at 5:44 pm 249.J Hunter said …

    I am a Zoroastorian. I want to tell you about Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda is the one true God that started all other religions. All other religions come from Him but they are all corrupted and evil now except the original. There is a heaven and a hell. Please my fellow christians and muslims and jews, come back to the real religion and turn away from your false religion.

    If you do not, you will burn forever in a fire pit with all your false prophets and atheists.

    Just say, “All glories to Ahura Mazda the most perfect and the most truthfull” and you will be given mercy on judgement day.

  250. on 17 Mar 2010 at 5:32 am 250.A real-ist said …

    I am a baseball fan. Babe Ruth is the real God. He is the great bambino, the sultan of swat. Please go to the old Yankee stadium that he helped build and worship him. Also, please pray to his disciples DiMaggio, Mantle, and Gherig. The real Christ lives among us today. You might have heard of Jeter Christ. A new temple was just built for him across the street from the old one. He will heal your spring fever with his magic wooden stick. –See how rediculous religon sounds now?

  251. on 25 Mar 2010 at 9:29 pm 251.Anonymous said …

    I will tell you a few things about God.

    #1 – Why doesn’t he cure illness? Why would he have to?, is my question. If you believe in God and Jesus you have nothing to fear about Illness, i wont say its not going to make you sick, but if you die from youll end up in a better place, heaven.

    #2 – Why does the bible say to love your enemy but when you dont believe in him you go to hell? This question is plain ignorant. If you dont believe in god thats your choice, but its a warning, of you dont, you will go to hell, end of story. God wont let people who don’t believe in him, into his sanctum of peace.

    I could give so many reasons, but im just going to say, Religion is about belief. You have to believe in God and then you will know.

  252. on 25 Mar 2010 at 11:24 pm 252.A real-ist said …

    “If you dont believe in god thats your choice, but its a warning, if you don’t, you will go to hell, end of story. God wont let people who don’t believe in him, into his sanctum of peace.”

    Hmmmm…..so I guess all babies and young kids who die, and people that were raised not to believe and “don’t know any better” are all going to hell.
    Why can’t we live in reality and not pretend world?

    “if you die you’ll end up in a better place, heaven.”

    Really? I don’t know about you, but I want to live as long as I can and not rely on the “what if” where there is no proof of an afterlife. And don’t say the bible says so, because the bible was written by man, not a God.

  253. on 28 Mar 2010 at 4:50 pm 253.Merlin said …

    “10 questions that every intelligent Christian must answer”

    The video starts quite cleverly: Flatter the viewer. Boost his ego by implying that he is educated, intelligent, smart, logical and whatnot. Imply that if he really is intelligent and educated he shouldn’t have any problems in answering the presented questions. Who would admit being uneducated and stupid?

    This introduction is rather mischievous. Its intention is to flatter the viewer, make him feel good about himself, in order to ensnare him into the surprising straw man traps that follow.

    I have to admit that’s a pretty clever introduction. I bet a lot of thinking work went into writing that script.

    After all this flattering, the video finally gets to the point:

    As a Christian, you believe in the power of prayer.

    According to a recent poll 3 out of 4 doctors believe that God is performing medical miracles on earth right now.

    Most Christians believe that God is curing cancers, healing diseases, reversing the effects of poisons and so on.

    Immediately from the beginning, the entire video starts from very shaky grounds, setting up a petitio principii. In other words, it sets up the premise “christians believe that God cures anyone who prays for it”.

    While some christians believe that, that doesn’t automatically mean that christianity, as a religion, teaches that, or that (assuming God indeed exists) it’s true.

    The premise is false. Not all christians believe that God cures everybody who just asks for it. Even the Bible itself has several examples of people praying for their diseases and not getting cured. There are even some extreme views held by some christians that God does not cure anybody at all.

    Question #1: Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?

    I have to admit the question is quite clever. The problem is that it’s based on a false premise (that is, that christianity teaches that God heals everybody).

    In the end, this question can be reduced to the primal question: Why does God allow “bad” things to happen?

    And this sinks into the question of what is “right” and what is “wrong”. We may think that not curing people may be “wrong”, but who says we are right? Is our view of the “universal moral code” correct, or is there some bigger picture we are not seeing? Are we asking for ice cream and being denied?

    The continuation to that question in the video is irrelevant because the premise is false.

    In order to handle it, notice that you have to create some kind of rationalization.

    [...]

    So you invent your excuse, whatever it is, and then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable.

    Now, these simple sentences describe perfectly the major problem in all these “clever” attacks against christianity.

    You have already decided what the “correct” answer to your question is, and you have already decided that any answer, and that means any answer (in your own words “whatever it is”), which deviates from your own is a “rationalization” and thus incorrect. You will not even consider any alternatives besides your own preconception.

    So the question is: Why are you asking a question when you clearly don’t want to hear any answer? You have already decided your own answer and dismiss all possible alternative answers as “rationalizations” and “excuses”. You are not interested in answers.

    In internet parlance this is called trolling.

    As a Christian, you believe that God cares about you and answers your prayers.

    Again we have a shaky premise. You make an assumption of what the viewer believes and doesn’t believe.

    Also you are making the assumption that “caring about someone” and “answering someones prayers” is the same thing as giving him everything he asks for. The father may care about his child, but he still may deny him the ice cream.

    Question #2: Why are there so many starving people in our world?
    You already asked this question. “Why does God allow bad things to happen?” And on equally shaky premises.

    Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring prayers of these desperate, innocent little children?
    Now here’s a perfect example of a straw man. Simplify things to the point where they become ridiculous. And even this simplification starts from very shaky premises (“God is worried about you getting a raise, while neglecting starving children”). This question is completely equivalent to the already mentioned:

    Why don’t we see any fish growing legs and lungs?

    The premises are false, the question is a complete straw man. The whole thing is a petitio principii.

    The cleverness of these “questions” is rapidly degrading as the video progresses.

    Why would a loving god do this?
    Do what? Give you a raise while neglecting the starving children? The question is asked as a direct followup to a blatant straw man, and thus is completely irrelevant.

    If you wanted to ask “why does God allow children to starve”, independently of your previous straw man, then it, once again, falls into the same primal question: Why does God allow bad things to happen? Thus it’s the same question you already asked.

    More straw men follow this question, and are completely irrelevant.

    Question #3: Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?
    Innocent of what? You are now talking about this “universal moral code” of yours, which doesn’t exist. Why is your moral code correct and someone else’s moral code wrong? Does the US have the wrong moral code because they have capital punishment? This question could be asked:

    “Why does the United States demand the death of so many innocent people in its criminal law?”

    You proceed to talk about “murdering” people, like if it was the right for anybody to kill someone committing a crime. This is a complete straw man.

    You are talking about criminal law here. Even if the criminal law of the United States has capital punishment, that doesn’t mean people can go and kill anybody who commits such a crime. Criminal law is imposed by the government and its judiciary system.

    It’s no different in the Bible: The law you are referring to is criminal law, and could only be imposed by the government and its judiciary system. There are concrete examples: For instance, the man who broke the Sabbath was brought in front of the governing officials for judgement. Why would they do this if the Bible so clearly states that he should just be “murdered”? Isn’t it clearly stated there that anybody who breaks the Sabbath must die?

    Because it’s criminal law, and criminal law can only be imposed by the judiciary system. There was as much “murder” as there is currently in the United States (regardless of whether you agree with capital punishment in the US or not).

    You intentionally use sentences in the form “God demands that we kill everyone who”, as if anyone would be entitled to kill someone for a crime. That’s just false. Just because the US law has capital punishment doesn’t mean that anyone can go and kill someone else.

    Now, you may disagree for the reasons of capital punishment, but this, once again, falls into what is morally “right” and “wrong”. Again, is your view of “universal moral code” correct, or is someone else’s? Why are you right and others wrong?

    It doesn’t make sense, does it? Why would a loving God want us to murder our fellow human beings over such trivial matters?
    “Why don’t we see any fish growing legs and lungs?”

    This is just a blatant straw man.

    Question #4: Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?
    Again a straw man. Have you ever heard of similes and metaphors?

    “How do I know what is a metaphor and what is literal?” This is a different (and in itself theologically interesting) question, but rather irrelevant in this context.

    Question #5: Why is God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible.
    And yet again a straw man.

    You, like most of the other people attacking christianity, like so much to equate the “slavery” mentioned in the Bible with the slavery that happened, for example, in the United States in the past. Just because the same word, “slave”, is used, doesn’t automatically mean the situations were comparable.

    In the United States slaves had less rights than animals, and were complete property of their masters. If, for example, the master wanted to beat, rape or kill his slaves, he could just do that with impunity. Slaves usually lived in their own quarters, often in conditions worse than dogs. Slaves had next to no protection from law.

    “Slaves” in the Old Testament were in a rather different situation. They were protected by law, and if their master abused them, the master would get a punishment. “Slaves” usually lived in the same house as their master, in the same conditions, and they could buy their own freedom if they wanted to. Moreover, the law demanded that slaves be freed each seven years.

    Regardless of this many of these “slaves” decided not to leave their masters because they were so well-treated. Their conditions were much closer to modern servants than to slaves.

    But of course all who want to attack christianity will ignore all this, distort the Bible, equate “slavery” in the Bible to slavery in the US, and dismiss any alternative explanation as “rationalization” and “nonsense”.

    Question #6: Why do bad things happen to good people?
    Now you are starting to repeat yourself. You have already asked this question. Twice.

    I thought I was supposed to answer ten questions.

    Question #7: Why didn’t any of Jesus’ miracles in the Bible leave behind any evidence?
    Petitio principii. Starting from a questionable premise and formulate a question from that. How do you know that they didn’t leave behind any evidence?

    And what kind of evidence do you want? Do you want water which was converted into wine about 2000 years ago? A person who was healed? What?

    Question #8: How do we explain the fact that Jesus has never appeared to you?
    These “questions” have already degreaded so much that it’s starting to be just plain ridiculous.

    False assumption: Jesus appears to people. Thus irrelevant question. A straw man.

    Question #9: Why would Jesus want you to eat his body and drink his blood?
    I can’t believe how fast these “questions” are degrading in quality.

    What do you not understand about symbolism? Do you have some kind of difficulty in understanding metaphors? I can’t even understand what is the “wrong” that this question is trying to imply.

    This doesn’t even need any so-called “rationalization” to answer. The question is just ridiculous. It’s like asking an American “why do you put your hand over your heart when the national anthem is playing?” Hello? Symbolism?

    A complete straw man follows the question and is completely irrelevant.

    Question #10: Why do Christians get divorced at the same rate as non-Christians?
    The worst to the last, I see. What does this question even have to do with christianity?

    Christians are human beings like any other. There’s no “magical power” given to christians which would make them less prone to divorce. People are people, and when they don’t get along, they don’t get along. Sure, christians should get along, but they are still just people.

    I still don’t even understand how this question is related to the subject.

    In the end, it’s also a question of “why does God allow bad things to happen?” So, in fact, this is basically just the same question which you have asked three times already.

    God is all-powerful, so if God has put two people together that should seal the deal, right?

    Petitio principii. You assume that:

    All christian marriages are caused by God.
    God never allows two people to divorce.
    There’s nothing in the Bible or in christianity in general which would claim neither of those to be true. On the contrary, the Bible itself gives advice and commands on what to do in case of divorce. Why would the Bible give instructions about divorce if it claimed that no christian could ever divorce?

    Thus your premise is false, you are begging the question and your conclusion is irrelevant.

    Your first question was rather clever. The cleverness of these “questions” degraded rapidly, and these last questions have been simply and plain stupid and irrelevant. Couldn’t you come up with anything better?

    We have looked at 10 fascinating questions.

    Actually there were only 7 questions, because 4 of the questions were the same. The only “fascinating” thing about these 7 questions is the amount of fallacious argumentation put into them. They were all based on false premises and straw man argumentation. The last two questions were just plain ridiculous and irrelevant.

    In order to believe in God, you have had to create all sorts of strange rationalizations and excuses,

    Incorrect. In order to “believe” in your straw men, strange rationalizations would be needed. However, your straw men are just false.

    That’s the whole problem with straw man arguments: When you start from false premises and oversimplify to the point of ridicule, no rational conclusion can be drawn. That’s simply because the premises are false.

    Now, let me show you something remarkable.

    What if you instead assume that God is imaginary?

    The only thing “remarkable” here is that by building false dilemmas from false premises and straw men, you can come up with almost any conclusion.

    What follows can be categorized into two:

    “Question: Why does God allow bad things to happen? Answer: Because God is imaginary.” False dilemma.
    “Question: Why ? Answer: Because God is imaginary.” False dilemma based on a false premise.
    This is exactly the same thing I did at the beginning of this page:

    Let’s assume for a moment that the theory of evolution is false and consider the questions above:

    Question: Why don’t we see any fish growing legs and lungs? Answer: Because the theory of evolution is false and fish don’t behave like it says.

    Question: Why don’t we see any dogs converting into cats? Answer: Because the theory of evolution is false and dogs don’t behave like it says.

    Suddenly it all makes sense and is logical.

    The cavalcade of fallacious arguments don’t end here.

    Our world only makes sense when we understand that God is imaginary.

    False dilemma. It’s like saying “animal biology only makes sense when we understand that the theory of Evolution is false”.

    This is how intelligent, rational people know that God is imaginary.

    No, this is how intelligent, rational people know what fallacious argments are. Clearly you don’t belong to them.

    You have to willfully discard rationality, and accept hundreds of bizarre rationalizations to believe in your “god”.

    You have to willfully discard rationality, and accept hundreds of bizarre fallacious arguments to believe that your “questions” make any sense and are relevant.

    Moreover, you have to willfully discard rationality in order to troll like this, by presenting “questions” you don’t even want to hear any answers to, because you have already decided what the correct “answers” are, and anything else is just “nonsense”.

    After this the video sinks to outright insults. What started as a bunch of flattering has now been converted into insults, calling these same people “delusional”.

    It’s time for you to begin thinking like a rational human being, rather than clinging to imaginary friends and childhood fantasies.

    It’s time for you to actually make rational arguments which are not straw men and which are not based on false premises and assumptions.

    It never ceases to amuse me how these people blame christians for distorting and ignoring scientific facts, while they at the same time distort and ignore facts of christianity.

    To get my point accross, and even at the risk of sounding repetitive, let me present just one more thing:

    1 question every intelligent scientist must answer:

    Why don’t we see any fish growing legs and lungs?

    Does the question make any sense? No. My point exactly.

    Of course this whole article has been in vain. As I pointed out earlier, the people who made the video have already decided what the “correct” answer to their “questions” is, are not even willing to hear nor consider any alternatives, and anything else than their interpretation must automatically be a “rationalization”, an “excuse” and “nonsense”.

    So trying to answer these “questions” is impossible: No matter what you answer, it will always be dismissed as an “excuse”.

    And this is the behavior of “rational” and “intelligent” atheists.

  254. on 29 Mar 2010 at 1:33 am 254.Boz said …

    Merlin quite long!….but points out the weaknesses of the silly questions quite well.

  255. on 30 Mar 2010 at 2:36 am 255.A real-ist said …

    Men have had the vanity to pretend that the whole creation was made for them, whilst in reality the whole creation doees not suspect their existence.

    From the point of view of a tapeworm, man was created by God to serve the appetite of the tapeworm.

    Whatever we cannot easily understand we call God; this saves much wear and tear on the brain tissues.

  256. on 31 Mar 2010 at 11:43 am 256.A real-ist said …

    Atom smasher will help reveal ‘the beginning’

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iFngOTfNSw21ce_26N1EzfTAXwRQD9EP74HO0

  257. on 05 Apr 2010 at 3:06 am 257.A real-ist said …

    I would like to point out that the story of Jesus actually came from similar stories that have been around a long time before he lived.

    One that comes to mind since the new movie Clash of the Titans just arrived into the theaters, is of Zeus, Hades, and Perseus. The Greeks developed this story long before the story of Jesus came about. Just look at the similarities. Zeus is known as god of the sky and weather. Hades was sent to the underworld to rule as that god, just like Lucifer. Perseus is the son of Zeus, born to a human female, just like Jesus and Mary. Perseus was a human, even though he was the son of a God. Persius led man to a big change.
    There are other stories in history similar to these as well.
    So why do people think the story of Jesus is actually real, but not these others before then?

  258. on 05 Apr 2010 at 3:45 am 258.Makarel said …

    Realist,
    Nice theory, but that can be very tricky if you base your theory on a movie you have seen just now.
    Very attractive illustration but weak nonetheless.

    The story of Jesus is foretold in precise detail how he was to come and he was destined to do, if you are not scared of reading the Bible, turn to Isaiah 53. This was written hundreds of years before his coming.

    So the story of Jesus did not come from similar stories. This story is not a copy (for this is your conclusion)

    “So why do people think the story of Jesus is actually real, but not these others before then?”

    There are proofs that verify his reality. He is recorded in history, his work and his followers were recorded in historical documents.

  259. on 05 Apr 2010 at 3:57 am 259.A real-ist said …

    The movie is based on Greek Gods that in history were thought to have been true. Look it up. The movie just made me remember about the Greek story.

    “There are proofs that verify his reality. He is recorded in history, his work and his followers were recorded in historical documents.”

    Jesus may have existed as a human being. A carpenter and a preacher, but nothing more. Like I have stated in other posts before you came, his stories could have been easily mislead. He might have had a home remedy that healed the sick from a cold or something of that nature, and people at that time thought that was such a miracle and wrote it down as one. When really he was just a normal human that did something others thought couldn’t be normal. If David Copperfield existed back then, he would be thought of as a God. So what I am trying to get at here is he could have been a real person, but just exagerated. Think of ways how that could have happened. It is not unthinkable.

  260. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:05 am 260.A real-ist said …

    P.S.
    Mak, by pointing out that one part of the bible is true because of what it says in another part of the bible, doesn’t make it so. The bible is a book written by man. It has been edited many times from it’s original version. It should really not have any relevant proof since man wrote it and it is just stories. Stories can easily be made up.

  261. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:10 am 261.Makarel said …

    Realist, there were many David Copperfields back then. And yes they were viewed as Gods, they were focusing on themselves, Jesus on the other hand did not.

    Jesus made it abundently clear who was the source of his power. He does not direct people to him alone as was the norm of the day(by sorcerors/tricksters/magicians). No, he said that he was showing them to someone, and to follow him was to enable the people go to the one who sent him, his Father.

    The focus is not always the main point in your points realist.

  262. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:22 am 262.A real-ist said …

    “There were many David Copperfields back then. And yes they were viewed as Gods, they were focusing on themselves, Jesus on the other hand did not.”

    So Jesus was just a David Copperfield who didn’t focus on himself then. Is that not out of the question?

    “Jesus made it abundently clear who was the source of his power.”

    And there is no chance at all that he could have made that up? David Copperfield could easily in present day say his tricks were the work of God, even though we clearly know his tricks were just an illusion. Think about it.

  263. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:34 am 263.Makarel said …

    Realist, Why would these men then as you say(who wrote the books) commit such effort to make such a thing come about. And why would the editors rather die than to hand over the scrolls of the bible during the times of Emperor Nero (look at the killing of Christians during his rule). Why would they endure jail time to make new editions or even write some of the books as was the case for the Apostle Paul.

    Why would they even make new editions?

    Well if they had copywriters back in the day, their day, they would have used it. True these are copies, but to make new editions was to suit the change of time, the language of the day changed from Konei Greek to Latin, then from Latin to Old English, then on and on to this day. Why? Can you read greek to understand the story of Christ or the Bible for what it really says. No, can you read the Old English Bible of King Henry, it is going to be challenging.

    My point is this, the editions to the Bible were carried out for two basic purposes, firstly,to replace the old ones and secondly, also to make different generations over the years understand what the words and most importantly, the purpose of the Book.
    The Bible will continue to change with time to make understanding possible and not losing its core.

    These men invested their lives into writing this book and the continuation to this day, why would they even die for the survival of the book if it was a fake and made up story. They could have said, “Nah we’re just joking folks, please do not kill us.”
    The writers got hanged, beheaded, imprisoned and many more tortures were experienced for this book.
    They have to be saying or writing something that we must take notice.

  264. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:49 am 264.Makarel said …

    Realist,
    “So Jesus was just a David Copperfield who didn’t focus on himself then. Is that not out of the question?”

    Well, if he (Jesus)focused on himself, he woud not last 2000 years. David Copperfield is one of many back then, their message was very vibrant but for only a short amount of time.

    Jesus’ message got himself crucified, why is his following crowd still around. Does David Copperfield have a fear of being stoned by his audience, or have had a hostile audience? No, he is looking forward to their cheers, his audience do not come to see him fail (they would not want to spend their money for a failure), they want him to perform something out of this world. Jesus had people looking for ways to get him to slip and thus have an excuse to kill him.

    Sorry but you cannot compare a David Copperfield to Jesus.

  265. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:50 am 265.A real-ist said …

    Because they could. Why are there Muslim suicide bombers?

    There have been things taken out of the bible because they didn’t make sense, so new editions were not created just because they were put into a different language. And if the new editions of the bible were written to fit our language, then why does it still sound like it was written for a Shakespeare play?

  266. on 05 Apr 2010 at 4:58 am 266.A real-ist said …

    “if he (Jesus)focused on himself, he woud not last 2000 years. David Copperfield is one of many back then, their message was very vibrant but for only a short amount of time.”

    So, Jesus was a leader of a cult that just happened to last a long time. He focused on something different than the other David Copperfields did and it worked. Not out of the question. The Greek Gods and Egyption Gods lasted for a long time. Gods were formed because of the inability to not understand something. We now know how thunder is created and what the sun really is, so the God of Thunder and the Sun God don’t exist anymore.

  267. on 05 Apr 2010 at 5:17 am 267.Makarel said …

    Realist,
    “So, Jesus was a leader of a cult that just happened to last a long time. He focused on something different than the other David Copperfields did and it worked.”

    Well cults do not last if you happen to look at history. Usually when a leader dies, the cult follows. But it can cannot be seen here with Jesus and his believers.

    “Gods were formed because of the inability to not understand something.”

    In place of “Gods” replace it with “Theories.”
    Theories were formed because of the inability to not understand something.

    It is good to see that you do not place God as the god of thunder and of the sun, for they were created by Him so they are his work.
    But comparison of the Greek gods to God of Christians is not even compatible.

    The Greek Gods were said to be selfish and childish in their ways (look at their stories). The Christian God is selfless, giving up his son to save humanity. Why because He loves mankind.

  268. on 05 Apr 2010 at 5:37 am 268.A real-ist said …

    So if a God is positive he must be real then. If their selfish, then they are not real. How does that prove anything?

    A God that needs to be worshiped, isn’t that being selfish? Why can’t it be where man can just be good to each other and if God really exists then that should be good enough to get into a heaven? That would be a God that isn’t selfish. It is selfish if you have it where you have to believe and worship in order to get into heaven.

  269. on 05 Apr 2010 at 6:24 am 269.A real-ist said …

    “Well cults do not last if you happen to look at history. Usually when a leader dies, the cult follows. But it can cannot be seen here with Jesus and his believers.”

    The reason why the cult of Christianity didn’t die is because Christians still think Jesus is alive spiritually.

  270. on 05 Apr 2010 at 6:24 am 270.Makarel said …

    Realist,
    Please don’t mock your own intelligence.
    “So if a God is positive he must be real then. If their selfish, then they are not real. How does that prove anything?”

    A positive narration was given a while back for clarification to a particular point. You searched and found what you thought may be useful and applied it in an out of context question.
    But ok, The positive aspect of the phrase was focused on the attitude of the person that is receiving such a way of thinking and living their lives. that is the context.
    God is real whether or not it is viewed positively or negatively by men.

    Your question: How does that prove anything?
    Well, your question is basically out of context, because your statement did not allow any proof to be established. That is why I said not to insult your own intelligence.

    “A God that needs to be worshiped, isn’t that being selfish?”
    He does not need to be worshipped, it is man that need Him. So they worship him. You have to understand how you view God.

    “Why can’t it be where man can just be good to each other and if God really exists then that should be good enough to get into a heaven?”

    I like that question because it reveals someone that thinks.
    Ok, men can just be good to each other. The difference lies in what you think is good, and what you think is good to you may not necessarily be good to the other person.
    How is it possible? Look at conflicts for examples, not wide scale, just issues at home, issues with friends and workers. What sees as good is not necessarity viewed the same by the other.
    This will pose a question your second part of the question:”and if God really exists then that should be good enough to get into a heaven?”
    There has to be a standard of right and wrong, good and bad, or else it’ll be chaotic.

    So it is not God that is selfish, it is us, we need Him.

    “It is selfish if you have it where you have to believe and worship in order to get into heaven.”
    Believe is something that we want to have(we seek for a belief in any thing in life, a belief to see something as true or a belief to see something as false), worship is what you do in your belief naturally.
    Worship is not restricted to the Church building alone as some have grown acustomed to (the church meetings are for encouraging each other). Worship is living a person’s life to the commands of God which basically means, everyday is worship. The treatment of others is worship, they see God in a person’s actions.
    So now you can spot the real Christians from the fake now huh?
    Those that go to church on a Sunday, then live their week like drunkards and violent individuals are fakes.

  271. on 05 Apr 2010 at 11:32 am 271.A real-ist said …

    “He does not need to be worshipped, it is man that need Him.”

    Man doesn’t need him. How can man need him if he isn’t even proven to exist? Man only thinks they need him because they are afraid of dying and want to believe there is an afterlife. I don’t believe in an afterlife since there is no proof, so I don’t need him. I can live with good morals without needing a God. And if you claim he doesn’t need to be worshipped, then great, I don’t need to worship him and if the small chance there is a God then it doesn’t matter if I worshipped him or not, I will still go to heaven. So it is a win/win situation for me. I don’t have to waste my time and if you are correct that there is a God, then I can go to heaven. I like that thinking.

  272. on 13 Apr 2010 at 12:08 am 272.Rick said …

    IF God does not exist then why you waste time trying to convence youself and others? Why do you hate God if He dosent exist? Why do you take so many things out of context? Every race and kind of people instictively know God exists throughout history. It is impossible that God does not exist… Nature,sience,history and religion teaches us that. WE dont know everything about Him but we know enough… You can convence yourself of many things but you will never be able to prove the impossible…

    Open your mind and be more honest about God and your desires will change for the betterment of peoples instead of hating people and God.

  273. on 13 Apr 2010 at 1:54 am 273.Lou said …

    “There were many David Copperfields back then. And yes they were viewed as Gods, they were focusing on themselves, Jesus on the other hand did not.”

    Really? No proof but a huge claim! Yet Jesus survives and the others do not. I wonder why?

    @Rick

    The answer is simple. They know there is a God, but they repress the evidence and the innate sense. Anthony Flew followed the evidence (his words) and one day they may as well. As one atheist has shared with me “I had to talk about religion constantly to give myself reassurance.”

  274. on 13 Apr 2010 at 3:45 am 274.A real-ist said …

    “Open your mind and be more honest about God and your desires will change for the betterment of peoples instead of hating people and God.”

    Who ever said that being an Athiest means you hate people? Not believing in a God doesn’t mean you hate people. In fact, the reason why us Athiests try to show people that their belief in a God is delusional is because of the bad things religion does. Yes, religion does good things, don’t get me wrong on that, but it is the bad things I want to focus on. For example, the end of the human existance will be because of religion. Why do I say this? Our species will end in the future either by a nuclear war or by Global Climate Change. How do these relate to religion and the belief of a God? We could easily nuke each other over religous views. The war in the Middle East is because of religion. If that doesn’t kill us, then the vast change in our climate due to human polution will. The term is known mainly as Global Warming, but it has been changed to Global Climate Change because it isn’t just making our planet warmer, it is changing all climates. Many religious people don’t believe it is happening because they think scientists are making it up. They also think they can just pray to their God and he will help. Guess what, we are on our own on this. That is why it is important to spread the word on Athiesm and to show what is really happening in our world/life. It is important for humanity not to be in delusion so we can all unite to make our world peaceful for future generations. It is more important than ever since we are nearing the breaking point of nuclear weapons and the fast deadly climate change brought upon by our own polution. So you see, us Athiests love our world, life, and people since this is the only life we get.

  275. on 13 Apr 2010 at 6:09 am 275.Severin said …

    273 Lou
    “Really? No proof but a huge claim!”

    Of course, as all the time, you require proofs from others, without giving any for your own claims.

    The “hugest” claim terroizing us for milleniums was expected (and forced) us to believe without any proofs, yet, at the moment one claims oposite, proofs are required immediately!
    We trusted you for several 1000 of years without proofs, it is time now you to trust us without proofs, for the next several 1000 if years.
    Huge difference: we will not kill/torture you if you don’t!

  276. on 14 Apr 2010 at 1:50 am 276.M.C. said …

    So then if there is no God and we all just kind of emerged out of a state of nothingness, please expand further on the Big Bang theory. I’d be curious to hear how the migration patterns of birds, the birth of a baby, the blooming of a flower, the capability of the human brain to make decisions that have affected history, etc., are mere examples of humanity having evolved from a simple monkey or a big bang. I guess I would just like some clarification. And kindly spare the crude ranting and please just stick with the facts. Thank you.

  277. on 14 Apr 2010 at 2:17 am 277.MrQ said …

    M.C.

    If you’d care to do a little research at your local library, university, college, or even the internet, then you might discover some unusual and strange information.
    Start with basic scientific facts. Study the findings in molecular biology, look into the fossil record, have a look at Hubble space telescope images, study the latest geological research, and always ask lots of questions. Never stop wondering and always keep searching. It’s a big beautiful universe and it’s yours to discover.
    Here’s a strange tidbit of info I heard lately: Supposedly there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on our planet Earth. Strange but mind numbingly astonishing.
    Carry on with your search. Good luck.

  278. on 14 Apr 2010 at 11:24 am 278.Lou said …

    MC

    And when you do all that Q has suggested, the rationale mind will, of course, acknowledge a creator. Science makes the fact clear.

    Someone claimed on this blog it is only complex to our minds. I’m still attempting to ascertain exactly what that implies.

  279. on 14 Apr 2010 at 11:39 am 279.A real-ist said …

    “the rationale mind will, of course, acknowledge a creator. Science makes the fact clear.”

    Tell me how science makes the fact clear there is a creater. I think it is an attemp on your part to try to relate the two so a God still makes sense in your mind.

  280. on 14 Apr 2010 at 3:36 pm 280.M.C. said …

    MrQ -

    Thank you for being respectful and avoiding crude ranting in your response to my comment. I appreciate that. Even though you are not a Christian you are obviously a good person at heart.

    Based on your comments, I assume that you not only dismiss the presence of a Creator (God) but also the presence of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory? Do you believe in the theory of reincarnation? I only ask because I’m trying to understand why anyone (if there is no such thing as God) would even bother to care about the fact that this is a “big beautiful universe” and that it’s worth it to refrain from starting wars and destroying each other. If we are, in fact, fading into a state of nothingness once we die, then why do we care about doing right by others while we are alive?

    Lou –

    I’m on your wavelength…

  281. on 14 Apr 2010 at 3:46 pm 281.MrQ said …

    M.C.

    I will not colour or taint what you discover with “the rationale mind will, of course, acknowledge a creator.” I will state “Don’t let those condemning you to eternal damnation influence your approach or decision, they’re just so much background noise.”

    Only you will know what path is best for yourself. You should feel comfortable in your own skin. If you find god/allah/zeus/yahweh/odin or some other belief in a creator is what works, and it makes you happy, then good for you.

  282. on 14 Apr 2010 at 4:41 pm 282.MrQ said …

    M.C.

    I have to say that yes, you are correct, I do not subscribe to the beliefs of christians or other religious/new age believers. My world has no heaven/hell/god/reincarnation/etc, at least not for the moment.

    It’s about discovery and the voyage to understand. Understand the workings of this wonderful world, in this huge beautiful universe. What does an invisible god have to do with that? Unless you swallow the pill about the bible being the inerrant word of god.

    And why would I want to start a war? I have children. You usually need to generate factions (religious/political/racial) in order to generate wars. You know, rally the troops around some idealogical flag and then go and wipe out the “other” guys.

    My scientific minded world sees race among us as being non-existant. Look into our genetics and you will see that we are all of the lineage “humans”; our differences, the ways we pigeon-hole each other, are superficial and arbitrary. There are numerous ancestors as outlined in evolutionary theory and, likely, many more to be discovered. We are ALL part of this sequence.

    I sense that you feel like we need to have a god to achieve an understanding of “our place” in the universe. Personally, I will keep reading, studying, and finding out for myself what is best for me. So far it looks like we are a fairly insignificant speck in an unimaginably vast and mostly empty universe. And there’s nary a god in sight.

    Keep searching for your own peace of mind, if you need or want to. See my previous post, if god works for you, then that’s ok by me.

    BTW, What is the “theory” of reincarnation? Can you point me in the right direction. I never knew that there was such a thing.

  283. on 14 Apr 2010 at 5:46 pm 283.Lou said …

    “Only you will know what path is best for yourself”

    Always a fascinating philosophy but one that is fatally flawed. There is a truth then there is falsehood. Creation clearly points to a creator in complexity, in design and in purpose. The famous atheist Anthony Flew came to theism through science so we see man acting rationally based on new discoveries more often. Impossible to rationally believe this all came about by chance.

    Therefore, it is wise to determine what the creator expects. That is for everyman to decide for himself.

  284. on 14 Apr 2010 at 8:31 pm 284.MrQ said …

    Lou,

    I don’t support your idea there is a creator, as in a christian god. It appears that you do.

    How did you make the blind leap that “Creation clearly points to a creator in complexity, in design and in purpose.” to jesus is my saviour? Why not zeus, horus, odin? Only you know what path is best for yourself.

  285. on 14 Apr 2010 at 8:37 pm 285.MrQ said …

    M.C.

    Lou=Background noise

  286. on 14 Apr 2010 at 8:42 pm 286.Lou said …

    ‘How did you make the blind leap that “Creation clearly points to a creator in complexity, in design and in purpose.” to jesus is my saviour?”

    It can be acquainted with the same faith you have that all this could come about by random chance with NO CREATOR. Think about it. Matter forming on its own and finally coming about to what you see today. DNA with more coded information than the computer you are using. In my view, that takes even more blind faith.

    We all place faith in something. You have chosen a mysterious Big bang. Zeus and Hodin are just not credible or they would have stood the test of time.

  287. on 14 Apr 2010 at 8:58 pm 287.MrQ said …

    Lou,

    Virgin births, resurrections, floods, holy men bearing gifts, miracles…..They’re all part of numerous belief systems and myths pre-dating the rise of christianity. Stories that have been rehashed, repackaged, renamed for the gullible, such as yourself.

    I know….those other creation myths are all fairy tales but yours goes beyond all that, it is the only credible one. Well, apparently you do understand how stupid those other stories sound; we can both agree that they’re just made up. Apply that same thinking and you will understand how stupid christianity sounds to me.

    M.C. again….Lou = Background noise

  288. on 15 Apr 2010 at 1:20 am 288.M.C. said …

    MrQ -

    You put a lot of time and effort into your responses to my last post. Thank you. There is always something new to learn and discover about another person’s perspective. And you have children. (I don’t.) That’s a blessing in itself:)

    Lou -

    I appreciate your responses, too. You and I are graced with the gift of “faith” and unfortunately it’s not something that we can talk someone else into.

    I won’t bore either one of you with specific personal details and examples or unnecessary chatter about my life’s experiences which could and would prove the existence of God. But I will say that what drew me to join this forum was the fact that a question does exist. Without that question there would be no hope. And I think that sense of hope is sometimes all we’ve left to cling to, especially when the world seems to be crumbling all around us.

    Oh, and MrQ – as to the theory of reincarnation..
    I don’t subscribe to it and wouldn’t even entertain the notion, as I’m a Roman Catholic. And you say you don’t either, so we agree on that point!

    Thank you again..

  289. on 15 Apr 2010 at 1:24 am 289.A real-ist said …

    Lou,
    You claim that a God must have created us because we don’t know where we came from. Who created God then? How can you easily claim a God, who has no real evidence of existence, created the universe because something must have, but you don’t ponder who created God then. Isn’t that the same type of questioning when you really think about it?

    “Zeus and Hodin are just not credible or they would have stood the test of time.”

    Since time is still going on, whose to say Christianity will actually stand the test of time? I am sure during the time when Zeus and Hodin were truelly believed people were having the same conversation we are having now. Oh, wait, I forgot, it was pretty much against the law to speak against religion until recent history. My point is at that time it did stand the test of time. Remember, Jesus has only been in our thoughts for 2000 years, which is a small amount of time during the existance of mankind.

  290. on 15 Apr 2010 at 2:28 am 290.Lou said …

    “but you don’t ponder who created God then. Isn’t that the same type of questioning when you really think about it?”

    It makes more sense that an intelligent being has always been rather than matter or space with zero intelligence. But hey, you chose where to put your faith.

    You can speculate about the future of God, but bottom line he HAS stood the test of time to this point.

    I understand you point MC. However belief in God is not faith only. Read the writings of Francis Collins, Anthony Flew and others. Prominent scientist who make great cases. Don’t let the atheist convince you otherwise.

  291. on 15 Apr 2010 at 3:37 am 291.A real-ist said …

    “It makes more sense that an intelligent being has always been rather than matter or space with zero intelligence.”

    Really? Please tell me how it makes more sense that something that cannot be seen or prove to exist created something that can be seen and proves to exist, yet the thing that proves to exist cannot be infinite where as the thing that doesn’t prove to exist can be.

    By the way, are you giving God human qualities by saying he is intelligent? See below:

    Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind comprehending related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, reasoning, planning, problem solving, speech, and learning.

  292. on 15 Apr 2010 at 3:48 am 292.A real-ist said …

    “You can speculate about the future of God, but bottom line he HAS stood the test of time to this point.”

    So has the guy that will give suicide bombers 72 virgins when they die. So it must be true then? You think that is crazy, so you can see where I think the idea of a God really existing is crazy.

    By the way, let’s just take it as if it is true that God created the universe. Then how does that translate into that God watching over us and that there is a heaven we go to when we die? How do you konw it would’t be a God that created the universe and then just ignored it? That would be the closest thing to being more accurate if a God did create the universe, which I still feel is highly unlikely.

  293. on 15 Apr 2010 at 4:13 am 293.reasonablefaith said …

    Why did someone have to create God. We know Him as the uncaused cause. by definition, he has always existed. He is not material so why did he have to be created? Also, where did the universe come from if there is no God? Where do OBJECTIVE MORAL VALUES come from? Please note that i said objective and not subjective moral values as there is a difference and i have never met anyone who truly beleived no objective moral values exist. These values cannot come from humans as they must be transendent. Otherwise they could easily be discounted as cultural or what have you.

  294. on 15 Apr 2010 at 4:15 am 294.A real-ist said …

    Men…have had the vanity to pretend that the whole creation was made for them, whilst in reality the whole creation does not suspect their existence.

    Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God – but to create him.

  295. on 15 Apr 2010 at 4:31 am 295.A real-ist said …

    “We know Him as the uncaused cause. by definition, he has always existed. He is not material”

    That is because as humans we decided that if a God existed he would have to have those qualities, otherwise he doesn’t really exist. So you see, man has to believe God has those traits in order to tell themselves he is real. If man didn’t create those traits, then God would be too easy to prove non-existent. That is why the idea of a God has lasted a long time, because man thinks we can’t see him in our human form, which happens to be the only true form we have.

    “Where do OBJECTIVE MORAL VALUES come from?”

    They come from our ability to want to live as long as we can. Do good to others, and they will do good to you, for example, not kill you or steal something from you, etc. Good morals aren’t from God; in fact, the idea of a God was created from good morals.

  296. on 15 Apr 2010 at 11:16 am 296.Lou said …

    “They come from our ability to want to live as long as we can. Do good to others, and they will do good to you”

    What world do you live in? GO to a nursery and watch the selfishness of the babies! Self-preservation is associated with stealing and killing!

    Children must be taught to be moral. I doesn’t come about from evolution of they eject from mom caring, giving and sharing.

    Also Islam is about 1000 yrs old and they have the concept of a God creating. and?

    Notice, a Good creating the universe. Somehow you manage to prove my point.

  297. on 15 Apr 2010 at 1:05 pm 297.Bleu said …

    Keep trolling, Lou.

  298. on 15 Apr 2010 at 1:34 pm 298.MrQ said …

    Lou, the brilliant Lou says:

    “What world do you live in? GO to a nursery and watch the selfishness of the babies! Self-preservation is associated with stealing and killing!”

    Yeah, that’s right, you got a good point. That’s why those little wannabe murderers are swaddled when they’re born. Keeps them from grabbing a scalpel and gouging the heart out of a fellow baby to steal their pacifier.

    I am going to guess you don’t have a clue because you don’t have children. And that’s a good thing, you are the end of that line ;-).

  299. on 15 Apr 2010 at 3:39 pm 299.Lou said …

    LOL, I have 3 kids in HS and college. Those little babies grow up (yes really) and if you don’t give them guidance and direction they have this tendency to go in the wrong direction.

    Q, you are either completely clueless or you are deliberately belligerent. I don’t know which but if your fairytale of the self creating universe works for you, go for it. If you believe babies grow up to be morally upright without guidance and correction from parents you are just a plain fool. Sorry, but it is true. You will understand when you graduate and have children.

    yes, I know about the dreaded “troll” label. Its much like racism. An attempt to demonize the opponent who will not follow the accepted dogma of the opponent.

  300. on 15 Apr 2010 at 3:45 pm 300.Lou said …

    “By the way, are you giving God human qualities by saying he is intelligent?

    Sorry, I meant to address this as a matter of just having fun. Francis Collins calls DNA the language of God. I don’t know the language of God, he may not refer to his knowledge as a level of intelligence. Maybe omniscient?

    How do you refer to matter that just poofs into existence? Magic or illusion? But wait, that would require a human interaction. Good stuff.

  301. on 15 Apr 2010 at 8:40 pm 301.Severin said …

    293 Reasonablefaith
    „Also, where did the universe come from if there is no God? Where do OBJECTIVE MORAL VALUES come from?“

    There is no such thing like „objective moral values“.
    Sense of „morality“ was developed during extremely long periods of evolution, and natural „morality“ is VERY simple: transfer of genes to successors is ABOSLUTE priority of any individual.
    To transfer genes, you have to survive, and to survive, you have to eat. Obviously, in animal world, food = territory.

    Within the same group (wolfs, buffalos), stronger individual WILL kill his „brother“, from the same group to get priority in mating.
    The same animal WILL NOT kill his „brother“ for priority in feeding (will only growl at him).

    But, if another group tries to hunt on their territory, they will kill their “neighbors” for food (territory)!

    Animals recognize priroities, and have „built in“ rules of „morality“:
    For priority in mating KILL EVERYONE (if he does not subordinate and run away). For priority in feeding, DO NOT kill the member of your group, but KILL members of competition group.
    Such a behavior was developed during hundreds of millions of years of transfering genes from generation to generation. Only species with fine ballance in their „morality“, enabling them to live in consistent groups, with stict rules, survived.

    Humans ARE animals, and behave like animals.
    They, however, developed ability to THINK, to PREDICT, to PLANE. Using those abilities, they imposed their own LAWS as survival tool.

    You can clearly see evolution even in development of human laws! Just compare today’s laws to biblical laws, and you will see evolution in action!
    In only 2000 years slavory, stoning of people who did minor „sins“, killing of women because they married non-virgins, etc., BECAME IMMORAL!

  302. on 15 Apr 2010 at 8:47 pm 302.Severin said …

    “Also, where did the universe come from if there is no God?”

    Where did god come from?

    If you now say he had no need to come from anywhere, why isn’t the same rule valid for universe (matter, energy…)
    Universe existed from ever and will exist for ever, maybe only in different forms.

    Universe does not need god.

  303. on 15 Apr 2010 at 9:08 pm 303.MrQ said …

    Thus spoketh Lou:
    “Those little babies grow up (yes really) and if you don’t give them guidance and direction they have this tendency to go in the wrong direction.”

    No poo-poo, Lou. I thought about kicking my kids to the curb after they were un-swaddled, but people like you, with such clear and in depth insight into child rearing, managed to make me change my mind, but I did hide all sharp objects until they were steered right. Didn’t want those nasty selfish buggers to get any ideas about killing me or the Misses.

    Spake Lou again:
    “If you believe babies grow up to be morally upright without guidance and correction from parents you are just a plain fool.”

    My kids are doing just fine even though they don’t have any invisible means of support. They somehow managed, without a god or set of gods, to achieve a sense of right and wrong; I am guessing most of their behaviour is either innate or learned from watching and interacting with friends, me, and the Misses. I have not seen any of the “selfishness of the babies!” with my kids. But then again, my kids are better looking and smarter than your kids :-p .

  304. on 15 Apr 2010 at 10:39 pm 304.Lou said …

    “I thought about kicking my kids to the curb after they were un-swaddled, but people like you, with such clear and in depth insight into child rearing, managed to make me change my mind”

    Great! I’m glad I got to you just in time!

    “They somehow managed, without a god or set of gods, to achieve a sense of right and wrong;”

    Sure you did. They had the influence of judeo-christian laws and morals imparted us by our founders. God looks over even the unbeliever. Believe me I know, been there! You just do it unknowingly.

    “then again, my kids are better looking and smarter than your kids”

    Really? I’m sure you kids are quite the lookers. LOL, if that is what is most important to you Q. Ride it as long as you can!

    Of course you never did make any case for creation w/o a creator but they never do. They just change the subject. (sigh)

  305. on 15 Apr 2010 at 11:18 pm 305.MrQ said …

    Lou,

    Refresh me. -Did you make any case for creation with, or due to, a creator? Other than saying “It must be so” and “goddidit, so there”.

    I will simply state: let’s wait for the evidence before jumping to conclusions. You have yoked yourself with the jesus zombie-man myth and all the ensuing baggage; and, as we both agreed, that’s just a rehash of earlier made up fairy tales.

    Ever hear of the Large Hadron Collider or Hubble Space Telescope? Not that any of that would make any difference to your mindset, regardless of what they discover. Could lead to evidence for the big bang or something else. Let’s wait and see. Did you get that, Lou? Not predisposing myself to any particular outcome.

    Don’t know exactly why but I gotta ask you Lou. How old is our planet? 6000 years? 9000? 4 billion? What’s your bible say about that?

  306. on 15 Apr 2010 at 11:46 pm 306.A real-ist said …

    “How do you refer to matter that just poofs into existence? Magic or illusion?”

    Well, since matter proves to exist and a God doesn’t, I would say your case for a God is based on only magiic and illusion, or should I say delusion.

    Again, please tell me how it makes more sense that something that cannot be seen or prove to exist created something that can be seen and proves to exist, yet the thing that proves to exist cannot be infinite where as the thing that doesn’t prove to exist can be.

  307. on 16 Apr 2010 at 12:59 am 307.M.C. said …

    Well, I think both MrQ and Lou are intelligent people with depth. You have both raised children and I must say with a sigh that’s more than I (think) I will probably ever do..

    MrQ – You seem very intelligent and (don’t get mad, this is a compliment) also very sensitive at heart. I have a feeling there is much more to you than any of us on here will and could ever know!

    Lou – You seem very intelligent too and you have an inner strength that you don’t often show because really you have nothing to prove. (Again, this is supposed to be a compliment.)

    Of course, I could be way wrong about both of you. After all, I don’t know either one of you! (But I do think I may be somewhat on track?)

    As to the topic at hand….the existence of a Creator/God (or not)…

    I’ve said I’m a Catholic so naturally I believe in God. But I also believe that in spite of one’s religion (or lack thereof) forgiveness and peace have to be at the core of everyone. (Easier said than done, I’ve certainly not been the purest of examples!)

    But don’t you all at least agree that without those two elements there isn’t much of a foundation on which to build from, no matter what you believe?

    Ok, so maybe I’m a bit sappy here. I’m also maybe a bit naive. I just try all the time to believe in the greater good within everyone. And the one I’m hardest on is myself. Well, I’ve just digressed a bit, huh? Or maybe not. In any case, I wish all of you a peaceful evening (or whatever time of day in your corner of the world) and I hope good health and fortune find their way to all of you! (kids included:)

    Good night..

  308. on 16 Apr 2010 at 6:18 am 308.Severin said …

    Question
    Someone of you “creationists” please try to explain: WHY universe needs a creator, and god does not?
    WHY is your mind searching for a creator of universe? WHY do you think everything must necessaryly be “created”, except god, of course, who is out of any logic and out of any questioning, which makes your theory automatically unvalid, if we take in consideration cause – effect logic?
    Explain us, simple and religiously uneducated people, the logic of such a way of reasoning.
    Universe MUST have been created, you say, god „just exists“, was not created, and no common logic could be applied on him, that is what I understand you are saying, but all the time without any further explanation.

    Why would the logic that UNIVERSE JUST EXISTS, without being created ever, without any „reason“ and „explanation“ be less valid than the „logic“ that god just exists, without any reason and explanation?

  309. on 16 Apr 2010 at 11:42 am 309.A real-ist said …

    I came upon this post by someone that uses logic to prove that God does not exist. It makes a lot of sense and basically what I have been trying to say. Below is a small excerpt:

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread27888/pg1

    To say that before anything existed, a God existed, is an oxymoron. Such a statement can neither be understood nor conceived by our minds. It can not possibly be true and here is why. If a God existed, then that God is something. And something is not nothing. So the universe could not have possibly come from nothing. It must have come from something. Thom’s law explains that.

    Thom’s Law
    “Nothing can not produce something. If there was ever a time when there was nothing, there would STILL be nothing.”

    So even a God (which is something) could not be produced by nothing. Therefore, if a God came into being, he must have come out of something. The only “something” which exists now and has always existed is that of energy and/or matter.

    So, any God (or anything else) must be, or must have been, the product of something. Everything which is, must be a product of energy and/or matter.

  310. on 16 Apr 2010 at 1:16 pm 310.Xenon said …

    Thom Blaylock has the proof Realist? We can just all declare our own laws now?

    In reality his law actually proves the need for God.

    This “law” does not account for the fact that God would not exist in a state conceivable to a finite mind. A being capable of creating something from nothing is beyond our complete comprehension and hence scientific measures. However, the fact humans cannot measure and quantify this being does not mean the being does not exist. The last thing I would expect is a being who is captured by the laws he creates.

    Then again, like Thom, I declare Xenon’s law.

    Creation did Happen
    Creation is not possible through Natural law
    Therefore, God must exist.

    I like having my own law.

  311. on 17 Apr 2010 at 2:39 am 311.A real-ist said …

    Xenon,

    “God would not exist in a state conceivable to a finite mind.”

    If that is what you have to tell yourself in order to not be proven wrong in your own mind. Again, there needs to be proof of this unconceivable state for it to exist. You are basing a belief on something that has no evidence. And you truely believe it for some reason. You do realize this unconceivable state would have had to be created somehow as well. For example, our bodies are matter and you think our minds are souls. Our so called souls had to be created at some point as well as our bodies. I am just using this example because you believe our souls exist where as I think what you call a soul is actually just a bunch of physical chemical reactions, which science shows.

    “The last thing I would expect is a being who is captured by the laws he creates.”

    Using the same logic as my previous post, How can the laws be created out of nothing if he is not captured by them then? He had to have known of the laws in order to create them, right?

  312. on 12 May 2010 at 2:59 pm 312.Anonymous said …

    This is a great site. It was the beginning of my deconvertion from Christianity.

  313. on 12 May 2010 at 8:31 pm 313.Lou said …

    Anybody know what deconvertion means? Severin, is that you again?

  314. on 13 May 2010 at 9:07 pm 314.dan68131 said …

    Lou, who cares, at least this person is going the right direction!

  315. on 31 May 2010 at 5:53 am 315.mp said …

    evryone who has blogged on this site obviously has issues in their lives. if it was that easy to believe in GOD then evryone would believe in GOD. GOD tells u certain things ( the bible ) n allows u to make ur own decisions. that is what faith is. there are people that believe in aliens n has yet to see one. religion was not created so that evrything would be easy. it’s a tool to guide us in a straight direction. i agree their are atheist out there that r very good people but there are also people who need to believe in a greater being so that they may not stray. we shouldnt deny them of that. whoever has started this website has no rite to say whether or not GOD exists or not. u hav no proof of that either. it is faith that should decide that for us not some idiot that has nothin better to do than deny others that privelige

  316. on 31 May 2010 at 8:09 am 316.Severin said …

    312 Lou
    “Anybody know what deconvertion means? Severin, is that you again?”

    How primitive!

    311 Anonymous has problems with English, so what? By “making up” words he, at least, unlike you, expresses his intelligence.

    I understood him well, and I guess you did too. You just do not like someone to start questioning idiotic position your beliefs are based on.

    I never hide myself.
    You could think I did because it was YOUR typical tactics:

    Attack all the time, but never say what YOU really think!

  317. on 15 Jun 2010 at 4:47 am 317.muggleMikeC said …

    Thanks for maintaining the blog and website so many years so I could find it today.

    After a half-century of searching for the truth, I’m pretty sure I can say with certainty that God is an illusion, religion is a delusion, and the faithful are dangerous.

    The world really needs some rational thinking. Between nukes and viruses, religious people have far too much power.

  318. on 29 Jun 2010 at 4:23 am 318.Anonymous said …

    Your logic is terrible because you cannot read into the Bible your own preconceived ideas. You have done nothing except reason in a circle that goes nowhere. When you quote a verse for example, from John’s gospel about eating Christ’s flesh and drinking His blood and interpret it in a wooden literal sense you prove that you cannot discern simple metaphors in common language. Or, perhaps you don’t want to because you are willing to reject the truth and replace it with a lie? Jesus Christ is Lord and you are being challenged to hear His voice and turn to your creator for forgiveness and spiritual healing which we all desperately need. Logic in and of itself leads people nowhere unless they examine the facts without rose colored glasses on. I can refute any Bible verse you pull out of context should you accept my challenge!

  319. on 29 Jun 2010 at 10:31 am 319.Severin said …

    317 Anonymous
    “….about eating Christ’s flesh and drinking His blood…….you prove that you cannot discern simple metaphors in common language.“

    WHY would anyone eat human flesh and/or drink human blood, symbolically, metaphorically or literally?
    What a barbaric ritual! What is its purpose?

    But, how can you explain this as a „metaphor“:
    Deuteronomy Chapter 3
    „The LORD said to me, “Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon…..
    ….We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children. But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves.“

    That was what your god directly ordered. It is written in the Bible.
    So, either the Bible is not right (in which case the whole christianity have a problem, and the BIG one!) or your god was sick lunatic baby killer.

  320. on 03 Jul 2010 at 10:45 pm 320.Martin said …

    There seems to be two recurrent themes from Christians that I have to address.

    “Also, curious as to why you spend so much time trying to disprove something you don’t believe in? Is this not the ultimate in poor logic?”

    This is a good question in theory, but in reality you have to think outside the Christian box to really answer this question. Why does humanity work hard to disprove anything? Most of the time, it is to help mankind understand his natural surroundings instead of being in the dark. When we don’t understand natural things, there is a tendency to give the gaps to god. But, history proves that when there is ignorance of nature, there is almost always a bad consequence. Illness and mental illness come to mind as two of the worst in history, the other is the understanding or misunderstanding of the heavens. In short, religion, all religion, is dangerous because it stiffles knowledge, it praises blind obedience and faith, and it encourages division. I could give many examples, but I’ll only give one. A few years ago, fifth graders were told a story out of the bible, the one of Jerico and how Joshua fought the battle and killed everyone inside the walls. The children were asked to judge the story as either good or bad, over 75% said that Joshua was justified in killing the inhabitants of the city, because as they put it “god had instructed them to.”

    Now, a story just like this one in the bible was told to another group of fifth graders, only this time it was a Chinese general who broke down the walls of a Chinese villiage and killed the inhabitants. In that group, over 90% said that the killings were not justified. It just goes to show what blind obedience to faith can do to a person’s judgement, especially to children.

    The second misunderstanding that Christians have is about the atheist belief system. Atheists do not have a religious belief system, in spite of how adamantly the Religious Right tries to “prove” that we do. Sure, we have dogma, in the respect that we have a belief system in science and reason, but we do not hold that belief system so tightly that we are unable to bend. When, and most surely it will happen, someone brings a better theory in science to the table, freethinkers will embrace it, or more likely just accept it as a greater possibility.

    I once had a greatly respected theologian say to me that if tomorrow, science were able to prove beyond any doubt that god did not exist, that everything in the bible was false, and that there was no heaven and no hell, he would chose to continue to believe in god even in the face of overwhelming evidence against god. Now that is dogma.

  321. on 03 Jul 2010 at 11:03 pm 321.Martin said …

    “Also, curious as to why you spend so much time trying to disprove something you don’t believe in? Is this not the ultimate in poor logic?”

    I don’t want to belabor the point, but I did want to quote a couple of things written by some very prominant preachers in today’s Religious Right. Randall Terry, founder of an anti-abortion group called Operation Rescue wrote: “I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good…. Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. Our goal must be simple, we must have a Christian nation built on God’s law, on the Ten Commandments. No appologies.”

    Now, this is a man whom many, many Christians agree with. There is a wave of this kind of nonsense spreading across America, even as I write this. The Jerry Falwells, and Ted Haggertys of this nation are speaking out for the Christians to rise up, even the Republican Poster Child for the Christian Right, Sarah Palin, who is being billed as a possible Presidential Candidate, professes just this kind of fanaticism.

    A colleague of mine wrote to me: “Americans need to understand that there is a traveling Theo-freak show which actually advocates reinstatement of the Old Testament laws – killing of homosexuals, etc… and the right to vote and hold office for Christians only.” This may sound extreme, but this was written by a man who just this past fall was at a Tea Party rally in middle America.

  322. on 08 Jul 2010 at 9:00 pm 322.FUENTES30Karina said …

    I opine that to get the credit loans from creditors you must have a great motivation. Nevertheless, one time I’ve got a car loan, just because I was willing to buy a building.

  323. on 08 Jul 2010 at 11:10 pm 323.Biff said …

    “Americans need to understand that there is a traveling Theo-freak show which actually advocates reinstatement of the Old Testament laws – killing of homosexuals, etc… and the right to vote and hold office for Christians only”

    Odd, I have seen the same quote to Europeans. Back away from Dawkin’s God delusion. I recognize the quote right out of his book.

    Geez

  324. on 11 Jul 2010 at 1:52 am 324.shoosz said …

    I’m just trying to ascertain the truth regarding bible prophecy. Jesus is supposed to have fulfilled hundreds of prophecies like Palm:22. Also concerning info about him outside the bible, I believe that Flavius Josephus wrote on his existence. Can anyone help with this?

  325. on 11 Jul 2010 at 7:26 am 325.Severin said …

    323 shoosz
    We are not trying to say here that Jesus never existed.
    It is quite possible that he was one of many tramps who walked and preached the new religion at that time.

    Our point is: none of “jesuses” was god!

    Because, if you want to prove Jesus was a god, it is necessary FIRST to prove that god exists!

  326. on 23 Jul 2010 at 4:49 pm 326.Natalie B said …

    Hi! I find the things on this blog so interesting. I am a college-aged Christian but I still love to look at other people’s views. I don’t know who contributes to this blog but if anyone who’s skeptic about Christianity or an atheist could contact me I would love to talk a bit so I can understand YOU more, and maybe share some things too. Im so not out to prove anything at all I just would love to talk. thanks!

  327. on 02 Sep 2010 at 4:08 pm 327.Vince said …

    This is a well organized, intelligent website. The only problem I see is that you can’t explain a spiritual subject intellectually. It is just a truth that reveals itself to your heart. Church, religion, ignorant people and politics do not discredit a change of heart and hunger toward something more. With all of our “intelligence”, “science” and “evolution” we are still killing each other and ourselves. Still searching for answers. What I read in the bible that is relevant is that we are a lost people in need of salvation. That I believe. I thing the anger toward religion is warranted. But religion is man made. There is no “religion” mentioned in Jesus’s message. Just an invitation to something more, something outside this fallen world.

  328. on 24 Sep 2010 at 7:23 am 328.frankjg said …

    There is a lot of philosophical questions when we discuss about EXISTENCE of god. When I read and studied the site god is imaginary, everything became very clear.
    GOD EXIST. Yes, in our imagination. As Madalyn Murray said, the gods live and their Home is in our brain. Here are the ghosts, angels, batman, satan, leprechauns, etc. They live their own lives. they have their own stories and adventures. All according to the perception of the individual.

    An idiot can see the face of his god but it is different from the god seen by a moron or imbecile and most likely different from a genius like einstein or hawking. All is a creation of the mind.

  329. on 10 Oct 2010 at 1:39 am 329.kate and kendra said …

    our hearts are breaking for all of you because you havent seen the light of jesus yet. At first we were really mad about what people were saying but then we prayed and felt the presence of god we will continue praying for the maker of this website and everyone else. 1st you keep saying that christianity is a relion, but it isnt it is a relationship. 2nd let us tell you about jesus he died on a cross for you, he was beaten and bruised for you. he was whipped and tortured for you he did this alll because he love you his blood was shed on the cross for you. he did all of this for you to be with him in heaven but u have to accept him in your heart. He is a loveing God he doesnt force you to come but will answer if you call. 3rd we arent going to try to prove u wrong on every thing u have said( even though we could and we probly will some othertime!! ) . we arer just here to tell u that we will be praying for u also , about the why doesnt god heal amputees thuing , he doesnt , it might not be by makeing there limps grow back , but he doesn hyelp them recover and he doesnt make them stronger mentally , spritually and phisically. he loves them just as much as he loves everyone else , and he DOES NOT IGNORE THEM!!!! We hope many of you are inspired and come to know christ through this message were saying and if you want to know truth and more about god read the bible. evenm if u dont believe in jesus after thuis or even ever, at least it will plant a seed in your heart and mind.u will be in our prayers.
    God bless u,
    kate and kendra

  330. on 10 Oct 2010 at 5:06 am 330.3D said …

    328.kate and kendra said …

    our hearts are breaking for all of you because you havent seen the light of jesus yet. At first we were really mad about what people were saying but then we prayed and felt the presence of god we will continue praying for the maker of this website and everyone else. 1st you keep saying that christianity is a relion, but it isnt it is a relationship.

    It is. In much the same way the wino has a relationship with the pink elephant he thinks he sees walking down the street.

    2nd let us tell you about jesus he died on a cross for you, he was beaten and bruised for you. he was whipped and tortured for you he did this alll because he love you his blood was shed on the cross for you. he did all of this for you to be with him in heaven but u have to accept him in your heart.

    Yeah, I heard that before. God loves you, so he turned himself into his son, so he could sacrifice himself to himself, to stop himself from torturing everyone in hell. But if you don’t believe that cuckoo story, you still go to hell to be tortured anyway.

    But seriously, he loves you!!

    He is a loveing God he doesnt force you to come but will answer if you call.

    Unless you’re an amputee. Or a child dying of starvation in need of a porkchop. Or any one of 100,000 God-loving people in Christian countries like Haiti, killed by earthquakes and other natural disasters.

    See, God gets credit for all the hits (“prayer worked!”) and then you ignore all the misses (it was in God’s plan for your entire family to be wiped out in that tsunami! But he still loves you!). It’s the perfect scam!

    3rd we arent going to try to prove u wrong on every thing u have said( even though we could and we probly will some othertime!! ) . we arer just here to tell u that we will be praying for u also , about the why doesnt god heal amputees thuing , he doesnt , it might not be by makeing there limps grow back , but he doesn hyelp them recover and he doesnt make them stronger mentally , spritually and phisically. he loves them just as much as he loves everyone else , and he DOES NOT IGNORE THEM!!!!

    There’s one flaw in your theory though. When people recover from other diseases, you give the credit to God and call it a miracle. Even though 9 out of 10 may die from it, when the 1 survives, you credit God.

    But because not one person, ever, has regrown a limb, instead of admitting the obvious, you make an excuse that God loves them anyway, even though he never helps them they way he allegedly helps other people recover from diseases.

    The name of this site is an abbreviated version of the real question, which is… Why won’t God heal amputees, when you claim he heals people of other diseases and ailments all the time? And the answer is, there’s no God. Religious people take any situation, and spin it to interject God into it. If someone recovers from an illness, they say God did it. If someone dies, they say God had a reason to take him. If someone has something incurable by medicine, like losing a limb, they make up some other excuse. Having a prepackaged excuse for any situation is called fraud.

  331. on 10 Oct 2010 at 12:36 pm 331.Lou said …

    “Having a prepackaged excuse for any situation is called fraud.”

    Attempting to claim God does not behave like you would as proof of his non-existence is called a fallacy. Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black my one dimensional friend.

  332. on 11 Oct 2010 at 8:42 pm 332.3D said …

    Lou said…

    Attempting to claim God does not behave like you would as proof of his non-existence is called a fallacy.

    I don’t claim that God doesn’t exist because of his actions or lack thereof. I just claim that IF he exists, he is an immoral bastard.

    I wouldn’t let a pregnant woman get shot to death or let a child starve in front of my face if I could prevent it. God would.

  333. on 24 Oct 2010 at 9:11 am 333.jpond said …

    its always funny when christians argue with the same responses and go around in circles explaining things that by their own religion arent meant to be understood. So how does god explain dinosaurs? they arent in the bible at all… basically there are so many holes in this book which is to be expected considering the primitive time when it was written, by men. But anyway, sadly christians are brainwashed from birth into an empty life of false beliefs and an overall refusal of logic and the proof that any magical things they experience from their beliefs is what is known as the placebo effect. This is the 21st century here, the book is simply outdated and its time for human kind to move on and accept reality instead of living in a cloud.

  334. on 24 Oct 2010 at 9:14 am 334.jpond said …

    Oh and sorry about my run ons, im up past my bed time… The truth is there if you can wrap your mind around it

  335. on 24 Oct 2010 at 1:07 pm 335.dxt said …

    #332

    Behemoth

    Job 40:15 “Behold now, Behemoth, which I made as well as you; He eats grass like an ox.
    Job 40:16 “Behold now, his strength in his loins And his power in the muscles of his belly.
    Job 40:17 “He bends his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are knit together.
    Job 40:18 “His bones are tubes of bronze; His limbs are like bars of iron.
    Job 40:19 “He is the first of the ways of God; Let his maker bring near his sword.
    Job 40:20 “Surely the mountains bring him food, And all the beasts of the field play there.
    Job 40:21 “Under the lotus plants he lies down, In the covert of the reeds and the marsh.
    Job 40:22 “The lotus plants cover him with shade; The willows of the brook surround him.
    Job 40:23 “If a river rages, he is not alarmed; He is confident, though the Jordan rushes to his mouth.
    Job 40:24 “Can anyone capture him when he is on watch, With barbs can anyone pierce his nose?

    Leviathan

    Job 41:1 Can you draw out the leviathan with a hook, or hold down his tongue with a cord?
    Job 41:2 Can you put a reed rope into his nose, or pierce his jaw with a thorn?
    Job 41:3 Will he multiply pleas for help to you; or will he speak soft words to you?
    Job 41:4 Will he cut a covenant with you; will you take him for a slave forever?
    Job 41:5 Will you play with him as with a bird; or will you tie him up for your maidens?
    Job 41:6 Shall your partners bargain over him; shall they divide him among the merchants?
    Job 41:7 Can you fill his skin with barbs, or his head with fishing spears?
    Job 41:8 Put your hand on him; remember the battle; you will not do it again!
    Job 41:9 Behold, his hope has been made false; will he not be cast down at the sight of him?
    Job 41:10 None is so fierce as to dare to stir him up. Who then is able to stand before Me?
    Job 41:11 Who has gone before Me that I should repay? All under the heavens, it is Mine!
    Job 41:12 I will not keep silent as to his limbs, or the matter of his powers, or the grace of his frame.
    Job 41:13 Who can take off the face of his covering; who can come with his double bridle?
    Job 41:14 Who can pry open the doors of his face? Terror is all around his teeth.
    Job 41:15 The rows of shields are his pride, shut up with a tight seal;
    Job 41:16 one is so near to another that no air can come between them;
    Job 41:17 they are joined to one another; they clasp each other, so that they cannot be separated.
    Job 41:18 His sneezings flash forth light, and his eyes are as the eyelids of the dawn………..
    Job 41:25 The mighty are afraid from his arising; from the crashings they miss the way.
    Job 41:26 The sword overtakes him, but will not hold firm, nor the spear, the dart, or the javelin.
    Job 41:27 He counts iron as straw, bronze as rotten wood.
    Job 41:28 A son of a bow cannot make him flee; slingstones are turned to stubble by him;
    Job 41:29 darts are counted as stubble; he laughs at the shaking of a javelin.
    Job 41:30 Points of potsherds are under him; he spreads sharp marks on the mire.
    Job 41:31 He makes the deep boil like a pot; he makes the sea like a pot of ointment;
    Job 41:32 he makes a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be grayheaded.
    Job 41:33 There is nothing like him on earth, one made without fear.
    Job 41:34 He beholds all high things; he is king over all the sons of pride.

  336. on 24 Oct 2010 at 1:38 pm 336.MrQ said …

    dxt (#334)
    What does this post say? That behemoth / leviathan and man co-existed? Are you a biblical literalist?

    Still no sign of dinosaurs existing millions of years ago. Not surprised.

  337. on 24 Oct 2010 at 1:55 pm 337.Ben said …

    “So how does god explain dinosaurs? they arent in the bible at all”

    Bo they arent. I don’t see Buzzards in the Bible either. So the point? Jpond you problem is not bedtime….

  338. on 15 Jan 2011 at 7:03 pm 338.Convinced said …

    I was an atheist but I can honestly say this site has convinced me there really is a God after all. I thought we had more than hope and opinion that there was no God but I can see the indirect evidence for the existence of a creator really is overwhelming.

  339. on 10 Mar 2011 at 8:32 pm 339.sonofapreacherman said …

    I’m grateful for the existence of this website. It’s important to speak the truth simply for the sake of speaking the truth. The truth is that there is no god, and all religion is offensive. I support the freedom of religious belief, the right to be free of religion if one so chooses and the separation of church and state. I also support the right to be offended by religion and by the very concept of the existence of a god or gods.

    Only a few people may actually be convinced solely by this website to stop believing in their god or gods. The cumulative effect of this website, however, along with many other educational sources of information may in fact help a significant number of people over time find the courage to let go of their gods. Having even one less delusional person living amongst us is a good thing.

    Keep up the good work!

  340. on 30 Apr 2011 at 5:45 am 340.tinker1941 said …

    Referring to chapter one.
    So far all you talk about is if. if. and ifs. Whell here is and if. First you don’t know what Neva Roger was praying for right,Ok let’s suppose she was praying ” Lord what ever happens let it happen to me and not to my students”. A teacher who loves her students might be thinking this way. Then here prayer was answered nothing happen to her students right.

  341. on 30 Apr 2011 at 6:29 am 341.Severin said …

    339 Tinker
    “Ok let’s suppose she was praying ” Lord what ever happens let it happen to me and not to my students”. A teacher who loves her students might be thinking this way. Then here prayer was answered nothing happen to her students right.”

    What with god who is supposed to love ALL people?

    It must be that the guy killed ONLY 7 people, including N. Rogers, AND his grandfather and his girlfriend before that, (9 people in total) thanks to N.Rogers’ prayers and thanks to god’s great mercy, he accepted her prayers!

    Imagine what would happen if she did not pray?
    What would, in that case, your god allow to happen!?

    Thank you god for becoming being semi-blood thirsty and semi-lunatic, after Mrs. Rogers’ prayer!
    Thank you, allmighty, for you acceptance of Mrs. Rogers’ prayer and killing of ONLY 9 people, when you could kill hundreds!
    You are SO good, so full of love, soooo…sorry, have no words!

  342. on 30 Apr 2011 at 11:26 pm 342.Hell Yeah said …

    Save the date guys. Jesus is coming back on May 21st, which is only weeks away. LOL. What happens to those who truly believe this when they wake up the next day and realize he didn’t come?….and there are many out there that believe this. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.

  343. on 09 May 2011 at 9:05 pm 343.Timothy Aldred said …

    This message is for the owner or manager of this blog. I don’t see another way to make contact, so I apologize for leaving a comment here, but I would like to send you a paperback copy of BAMBOOZLED! Besieged By Lies, Man Never a Sinner for review if you accept. Please contact me at my e-mail address.

    Thank you,
    Tim Aldred

  344. on 11 May 2011 at 2:00 am 344.William said …

    The God of man’s Bible is an imposter who was created by the real God himself, to see who would seek past the false to find the true.

    I watched your video on the “imaginary” god-

    are you willing to finally meet the real GOD
    and finally know the answer to all your
    intelligent questions?

    Even where he came from
    and how he came to be

    FASTEN YOUR SEATBELT!!!

    http://www.myspace.com/water_spirit_blood/blog

  345. on 04 Jun 2011 at 5:49 am 345.Goodenough said …

    you guys just don’t get it… this site needs to be shut down ASAP.

  346. on 22 Jun 2011 at 2:56 am 346.Douglas Lamore said …

    Hi!
    I’m Douglas Lamore, a independent writer and director. For the past four years, I’ve been working with my film partner Brian Harrison Mack (writer/producer) shooting ultra low budget, high quality short films. Together, we comprise Charlatan Studios, and we’ve made around 20 such films to date.
    Our short films have seen a lot of success in festivals around the country, but now its time to tackle our first feature-length project, and we’re looking for your support! FALL OF GOD will be our first feature film–a dark, off-beat, religious satire that deals with the subjects of art and religion. The story focuses on three main characters and how their worlds collide.

    Please visit our kickstarter campaign here:
    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charlatanstudios/1839521194

    Thank you!

  347. on 13 Aug 2011 at 4:26 pm 347.Chris Kentebe said …

    I swear, it is as if people are mad. No one in the last 2000 years has seen Jesus or God but yet, people pray to them without any evidence. What they go by is what their parents, grand parents have told them and from what they were told in school.
    Everyone talks about the after life but yet, still lie.
    The first ‘man’, Adam and Eve lied when they had direct communication to ‘God’ and one of their sons killed the other (Abel and Caine).
    There are also many places in the bible where they describe a ball of fire coming down from the sky and Jesus or Moses meeting with someone from the fire. Also, when the sea was parted, what was the fire in the sky that led the people from Egypt?
    I think we are already in hell because everyone lies. The US and Russia sign treaties on not using their weapons but yet, spend billions on improving deadlier weapons while people in Africa are dying from hunger.
    We have some countries in the Middle East developing weapons to use on their neighbor knowing fully well that countries like the US would most likely destroy them. The scary thing about that is that they are ready and willing to die.
    Religion is killing us all and yet, no one has seen their ‘god’.

    When people get married and they say ’till death do us part’ but yet lie and cheat. Does that mean that man can never be trusted?

    Why then, can some be trusted to buy guns?
    How come people would trust them not to use the guns? We know that some kill innocent people with it.

    It is as if ‘man’ is really mad.
    The only person I can trust is myself.

  348. on 13 Aug 2011 at 8:01 pm 348.Ted said …

    “It is as if ‘man’ is really mad.
    The only person I can trust is myself.”

    But are you not a man? You just violated your own declaration.

    Man is this way because man is wicked and full of sin. That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.

  349. on 14 Aug 2011 at 6:24 pm 349.Severin said …

    347 Ted
    “That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

    And failed!
    What an incompetent idiot!

  350. on 15 Aug 2011 at 12:13 am 350.Ted said …

    “And failed!”

    No Severin, He succeeded as I can attest to along with many generations of others. Unfortunately it seems you have failed to accept Him as Lord. What a pity.

  351. on 15 Aug 2011 at 2:48 am 351.Lou said …

    349.Ted said …

    “No Severin, He succeeded as I can attest to along with many generations of others. Unfortunately it seems you have failed to accept Him as Lord. What a pity.”

    Except that Jesus obviously has NOT “free[d] man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world,” regardless of what you can attest to.

    Was that dependent upon Severin’s acceptance of him as lord? Severin, you screwed us all! I didn’t realize that you have so much influence over our “Lord!”

    What a typical load of xtian b.s.

  352. on 15 Aug 2011 at 12:36 pm 352.Severin said …

    347 Ted
    “That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

    WHAT, exactly, was the purpose of Christ’s crucififixion?
    (a) To “pay” for people’s “sins” and their evil deeds, i.e. to take responsibility to himself and free them from their responsibility (so Pontius Pilate did not go to hell, and I am free to “sin”)
    or
    (b) to stop/prevent people “sinning” and doing evil deeds

    Is there a “(c)”?
    What did I miss?

  353. on 15 Aug 2011 at 2:50 pm 353.Lou said …

    Yes, there is “(c)” that contradicts the alleged “crucifiction”

    Deuteronomy 24:16

    “every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

  354. on 15 Aug 2011 at 8:51 pm 354.Ted said …

    “Was that dependent upon Severin’s acceptance of him as lord?”

    No, absolutely not. Some will reject and some will accept. It is up to you and it only impacts you. I truly hope you do accept. I do not wish the alternative on anyone.

    Rom 5:8
    Rom 10:9-10

  355. on 15 Aug 2011 at 9:05 pm 355.Lou said …

    353.Ted said …

    “No, absolutely not. Some will reject and some will accept. It is up to you and it only impacts you. I truly hope you do accept.”

    You don’t seem to get it. Even if the crucifiction happened, it’s meaningless, even if somebody is deluded enough to accept Jesus as “lord” (whatever that means), because his crucifiction obviously DID NOT “free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.” You are either extremely deluded or a bald-faced liar. No matter how many times you repeat or post it on inet forums, it simply isn’t true. Anybody with any intelligence can see that for himself.

    “I do not wish the alternative on anyone.”

    The alternative to what? The alternative to accepting Jesus as “lord” is not to accept him as “lord.” So what?

  356. on 15 Aug 2011 at 9:53 pm 356.Q said …

    Anybody not what a bald-faced liar is?

  357. on 15 Aug 2011 at 11:35 pm 357.Q said …

    “No matter how many times you repeat or post it on inet forums it simply isn’t true.”

    Lou what are you talking about? Why do you strike our with such anger?

    Do you really believe you can tell me what I have experienced?

  358. on 16 Aug 2011 at 2:48 am 358.Lou said …

    356.Q said …

    “Lou what are you talking about?”

    What part didn’t you understand? Repeating a falsehood doesn’t make it true. Understand now?

    “Do you really believe you can tell me what I have experienced?”

    If it’s a delusion about god or Jesus, absolutely.

    If I tell you that I had an experience wherein I was abducted by aliens while asleep in my bed, and subjected to medical examination of my reproductive organs, implanted with alien devises, and returned to my bed, will you tell that it didn’t happen? If you are a normal, intelligent person, of course you will.

    So-called religious “experiences” are no different. They’re nothing but crack-pot b.s., or part of a scam to take money from gullible people.

    The problem with religious experiences and alien abductions is that they are anecdotal. Just because someone says that something happened to them doesn’t mean it’s true. They may not be lying. They may believe it to be true, but it doesn’t mean it’s true. There’s absolutely no evidence that it’s true. As for the claim that “Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world,” there’s indisputable evidence that’s untrue. All one must due is open their eyes and see the incredible “sin and evil” that has always existed in the world both before and after the alleged “crucifiction.”

  359. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:08 am 359.Severin said …

    Q, Ted,

    Don’t run away from the issue!
    We did not talk here about who experianced what, but about Christ’s “sacrifice”.

    1.
    In all religions PEOPLE sacrifice(d) something, including other people (and children) to their gods, to “pay” them for their “sins” or to bribe them to get something they need from them (harvest, hunt, son, rain).
    ONLY in christianity, god decides to sacrifice himself to himself, to please himself, to “pay” for PEOPLE’s “sins” against him!
    WHO, the hell, asked him to kill himself for anything?
    2.
    WHAT was the PURPOSE of his self-sacrificing?
    What exactly was INTENDED to achieve, and what exactly WAS achieved by this illogical, monstrous, senseless, idiotic, lunatic act?
    WHAT exactly HAPPENED with world and people AFTER god committed suicide on the cross?
    Did people stop sinning?
    Did they stop doing evil deeds?
    WHAT?
    WHY did this idiot kill himself?

    I mean, some people do/did sacrifice themselves to save other people, or children, or precious goods, we call it heroism, but why did god sacrifice himself (to himself!), is mistery.
    Sick masohism?
    Absolute lunacy?

    Don’t you talk me about your “experiances”, please.
    Try logic.
    Try to explain me/us/yourself WHY god committed suicide on cross!?

    What are RESULTS?

  360. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:14 am 360.Severin said …

    Ted

    If ““Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world,”, you just look arond and ask yourself whether his goal was done.

    People still “sin” and do eveil, and never stopped doing it.

    What will your god do next to stop it?
    Cancel himself?

  361. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:17 am 361.Severin said …

    353 Ted
    “No, absolutely not. Some will reject and some will accept.”

    Try that logic with earthquake!

  362. on 16 Aug 2011 at 5:39 pm 362.Curmudgeon said …

    “As for the claim that “Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world,” there’s indisputable evidence that’s untrue.”

    Great! another grand claim. Please provide this indisputable evidence. I look forward to the closure.

  363. on 16 Aug 2011 at 6:36 pm 363.Lou said …

    361.Curmudgeon said …

    “Great! another grand claim. Please provide this indisputable evidence. I look forward to the closure.”

    Do you agree that man is “free from the bondage of sin and evil in this world?”

    For example, do you dispute that The Holocaust occurred or that it was NOT “bondage of sin and evil?”

  364. on 16 Aug 2011 at 6:41 pm 364.Lou said …

    361.Curmudgeon said …

    Or are you saying that “Christ came, to free man…” and that he failed?

  365. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:43 pm 365.Curmudgeon said …

    “Do you agree that man is “free from the bondage of sin and evil in this world?”

    Who claimed that was the case? Severin? That was not the claim of Q or Ted.

    Do you have the indisputable proof or not? My time is valuable?

  366. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:53 pm 366.Lou said …

    364.Curmudgeon said …

    “Who claimed that was the case? Severin? That was not the claim of Q or Ted.”

    347.Ted said …

    “Man is this way because man is wicked and full of sin. That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

  367. on 16 Aug 2011 at 8:37 pm 367.Lou said …

    364.Curmudgeon said …

    “Do you have the indisputable proof or not? My time is valuable?”

    For one, The Holocaust is not indisputable proof to you?

  368. on 16 Aug 2011 at 10:16 pm 368.Curmudgeon said …

    “That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

    Yes, and from this you conclude Jesus came to physically remove all the evil from this world? Is this truly what you believe? Do you really believe this is what Christianity is Lou or are you just playing a role?

  369. on 16 Aug 2011 at 10:16 pm 369.Curmudgeon said …

    “That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

    Yes, and from this you conclude Jesus came to physically remove all the evil from this world? Is this truly what you believe? Do you really believe this is what Christianity is Lou or are you just playing a role?

  370. on 16 Aug 2011 at 11:11 pm 370.Lou said …

    368.Curmudgeon said …

    “That is why Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.”

    “Yes, and from this you conclude Jesus came to physically remove all the evil from this world? Is this truly what you believe? Do you really believe this is what Christianity is Lou or are you just playing a role?”

    No, I don’t believe that’s what xtianity means, but I think that’s what Ted and many other deluded xtians believe. But in reality, it means nothing, because it didn’t happen.

    Man has not been figuratively, literally, or spiritually freed from “sin and evil” by Jesus’ “crucifiction.”

  371. on 16 Aug 2011 at 11:19 pm 371.Lou said …

    368.Curmudgeon said …

    “Do you really believe this is what Christianity is Lou or are you just playing a role?”

    Rather than playing games about this, why don’t you answer 358.Severin’s questions about the “crucifiction?” I am not going into that much detail about it because neither Ted, Q, nor you can answer them.

  372. on 16 Aug 2011 at 11:38 pm 372.Curmudgeon said …

    I don’t respond to Severin because I have no idea what he is talking about. You are not to far away.

    I read the link on the other thread which claimed atheist know more about religion than the religious. You are proving this to be a falsehood.

    But I will give you another shot. Another claim Lou?

    “But in reality, it means nothing, because it didn’t happen.”

    Can you prove this one or are you just blowing smoke again?

  373. on 17 Aug 2011 at 3:05 am 373.Lou said …

    371.Curmudgeon said …

    “I don’t respond to Severin because I have no idea what he is talking about. You are not to far away.”

    Liar. Anybody can understand even his broken English. You don’t respond because you no there is no response except for the only possible response – one that shows that you are a lying fraud.

    “Can you prove this one or are you just blowing smoke again?”

    (sigh) Once again, the theist reverts to the tired, old, ignorant cop-out reply – “prove that it didn’t happen.” Apparently when faced with the prospect that you’re simply wrong, you ask for someone to prove that your outrageous falsehood “didn’t happen,” when the onus of proof is on you to prove that your proposition is true.

    For example, please prove that the tooth fairy isn’t real and that she didn’t take a tooth from under my pillow and replace it with money. Go ahead, Cur, prove it! We all know that no such thing happened, but I challenge you to “prove it.” If you can’t prove that it didn’t happen, then you can’t ask anyone else to prove that whatever religious event that you (or someone else) claimed happened, didn’t happen.

    Until you do that, you are nothing but a fraud. But then, so is the religion upon which you rely for your “worldview.” So, we can’t expect anything more from you.

  374. on 17 Aug 2011 at 4:36 am 374.Severin said …

    371 Curmudgeon
    “I don’t respond to Severin because I have no idea what he is talking about.”

    I had one single question, and I am sure you understood it well:
    If Jesus was sacrificed “to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world”, my question is:
    DID he free man from bondage of sin and evil in this world?

    What happened? What are the results of his sacrifice? DID the world become free from bondage of sin and evil?
    Did man-god kill himself for nothing?

  375. on 17 Aug 2011 at 4:43 am 375.Severin said …

    Curmudgeon at all

    Jesus died and nothing really happened. World is exactly the same place as it was 2000 years after his “sacrificing”: people continued to “sin” and to do evil deeds.

    What else can we conclude from that, but:

    b) Maybe some Jesus died, some time ago, but he was not god
    or
    c) If he died, AND he was god, he was an idiot god, unable to anticipate the results of his own decision

  376. on 17 Aug 2011 at 11:29 am 376.Z said …

    Let me clear up for Lou and Severin why Jesus died.

    He died to free man from the penalty of sin that man would need to pay. Not one of the Christians here claimed the world would be free from sin because of Christ’s death. Jesus actually teaches the opposite. Things will get worse which they have.

    95% of Bible prophecy has come true. Remaining on the list is His return for his own. I pray you guys will confess your are sinner (Rom 3:23) to Christ and ask him to save you from the penalty of your sins.

  377. on 17 Aug 2011 at 1:10 pm 377.Lou said …

    375.Z said …

    “Let me clear up for Lou and Severin why Jesus died.”

    What you and Cur don’t understand is that I’m attempting to get the person who spouts such nonsense to explain it in his own words.

    “He died to free man from the penalty of sin that man would need to pay.”

    What penalty? And how did his death pay that penalty? All you do spout more nonsense just like the others, while not answering the questions. You didn’t “clear up” anything.

    “Not one of the Christians here claimed the world would be free from sin because of Christ’s death.”

    He wrote “Christ came, to free man from the bondage of sin and evil in this world.” Please explain “bondage.”

    “95% of Bible prophecy has come true.”

    Complete and utter b.s. An outrageous lie.

    “But you ask me what the scariest things are in Christianity: this infatuation with biblical prophecy and this notion that Jesus is going to come back as an avenging savior to kill all the bad people. — Sam Harris”

  378. on 17 Aug 2011 at 3:56 pm 378.Horatiio said …

    LOL!!!

    He quoted Sam Harris as if Sam has authority.

    “You ask me the scariest thing about atheism, the fact a man like Sam’s ethical compass allows him to be OK for killing others for a thought.” Horatiio

    Jesus coming back to take home His children? Not scary at all but for them He comes to judge, oh yeah! He should be scared.

    It is a fact about 95% of Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled including over 300 predicting the coming of Christ. Based on the phenomenal record, the last 5% is guaranteed.

  379. on 17 Aug 2011 at 4:56 pm 379.Lou said …

    377.Horatiio said …

    “He quoted Sam Harris as if Sam has authority.”

    No, I did not. I quoted him because I agree with his opinion.

    “You ask me the scariest thing about atheism, the fact a man like Sam’s ethical compass allows him to be OK for killing others for a thought.”

    Are you still maintaining that lie? First of all, a “moral compass” isn’t determined my religion or atheism. Second, he didn’t say that.

    “Jesus coming back to take home His children? Not scary at all but for them He comes to judge, oh yeah! He should be scared.”

    He obviously meant that what’s scary is that so many people like you are so ignorant to believe it, not that Jesus is coming back you, you moron.

    “It is a fact about 95% of Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled including over 300 predicting the coming of Christ.”

    95% of how many prophecies have come true?

    Biblical prophecies are just like daily horoscopes. They can be written and interpreted to fit any situation. They aren’t specific. They’re purposefully written to be vague.

    “Based on the phenomenal record, the last 5% is guaranteed.”

    Based upon your phenomenal record of lying on this forum, it’s guaranteed that none of what you just wrote is true.

    “But just imagine how breathtakingly specific a work of prophecy could be if it were actually the product of omniscience. If the Bible were such a book, it would make specific, falsifiable predictions about human events. You would expect it to contain a passage like, “In the latter half of the twentieth century, humankind will develop a globally linked system of computers-the principles of which I set forth in Leviticus-and this system shall be called the Internet.” The Bible contains nothing remotely like this. In fact, it does not contain a single sentence that could not have been written by a man or woman living in the first century.” – Sam Harris

  380. on 17 Aug 2011 at 5:03 pm 380.Lou said …

    377.Horatiio said …

    “He quoted Sam Harris as if Sam has authority.”

    But you have the audacity to state…

    “It is a fact about 95% of Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled including over 300 predicting the coming of Christ.”

    And proclaim…

    “Based on the phenomenal record, the last 5% is guaranteed.”

  381. on 17 Aug 2011 at 6:01 pm 381.Severin said …

    375 Z
    “He died to free man from the penalty of sin that man would need to pay.”

    So I can do what I want, and I will not go to hell, because Jesus paid penalty for my “sins”?

    True?
    No, I don’t think so.

    So, if Jesus did not die to stop sinning, and he did not die to pay for my sins, but I still have to pay for them, why, the hell did the man die?

    What was the purpose of his suicide?

  382. on 17 Aug 2011 at 6:25 pm 382.DPK said …

    A god who “requires payment” for sins of ancient ancestors sounds like kind of a shit god anyway, no? If I am angry at my child, I just forgive him because I love him. But the Jesus proposition is kind of like me saying I have to cut off my own testicles now because my fifth cousin twice removed of my mother in law’s great great, great, great grandfather raped a goat once. Who’s making the rules, and what is his rather sick obsession with human sacrafice? Doesn’t that seem something a perfect being would have gotten past by now?

    I go in the hospital for a short time to get one of the “perfect designers” engineering flaws fixed up by some proper engineers and I see Crum and the others waste no time in peddling their nonsensical bullshit to whomever they think may be listening… too funny. Tell me, did Hor EVER answer any of the 5 or 6 direct questions he was asked by me in the older threads? It’s a rhetorical question… I know he didn’t. So… LOL.

  383. on 17 Aug 2011 at 7:27 pm 383.Lou said …

    381.DPK said …

    “I go in the hospital for a short time to get one of the “perfect designers” engineering flaws fixed up by some proper engineers”

    I was praying for you – LOL!

  384. on 17 Aug 2011 at 8:02 pm 384.DPK said …

    It worked! Praise God! What more proof do you need?

  385. on 17 Aug 2011 at 8:06 pm 385.DPK said …

    Where can I find a list of the over 300 biblical prophecies that have come true so far? That would be entertaining reading.

  386. on 17 Aug 2011 at 8:32 pm 386.Lou said …

    384.DPK said …

    “Where can I find a list of the over 300 biblical prophecies that have come true so far? That would be entertaining reading.”

    google – 300 bible prophecies

  387. on 17 Aug 2011 at 8:35 pm 387.Lou said …

    384.DPK said …

    “Where can I find a list of the over 300 biblical prophecies that have come true so far? That would be entertaining reading.”

    This is more entertaining and educating.

    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/09/100-challenge.html

  388. on 19 Aug 2011 at 2:30 pm 388.godskingdomway said …

    I am not understanding how can you figure that a world without even the thought of god would simply eliminate alot of world trouble.The last time i checked the idea of darwinism set the stage for racism in the 19 century.Frankly most ppl have problems with what the false teachers have taught and not really with what the bible teaches.If you eliminate religion then you have to understand man will still justify whatever evil actions they want to do.If you cant see that violence will still march on then you are not looking at the evidence not bias like a judge would but you are infact so bias to the point you would not even consider any fact that points to the exsistence of God.So for the sake of this conversation lets pretend to be like a judge (not bias).I saw in the earlier blogs that someone asked about the point of the ransom and how it works.so first off let me start with a familiar scripture matthew 5:3 happy are those conscious of thier spiritual need since the kingdom of the heaven belongs to them.This is long but it will help you see why a ransom was needed why jesus was the one to do it please read the scriptures after each paragraph to understand fully “The Way and the Truth and the Life”
    HAVE you ever been lost? You may recall an occasion when you were traveling to visit a friend or a relative and could not find the way. As you proceeded along an unfamiliar road, did you stop and ask someone for directions? Imagine how you would feel if, instead of just telling you which way to go, a benevolent individual said: “Just follow me. I will lead you there.” How relieved you would be!
    2 In a sense, Jesus Christ does something like that for us. On our own, approach to God would be impossible. Because of inherited sin and imperfection, the world of mankind is lost, “alienated from the life that belongs to God.” (Ephesians 4:17, 18) We need help to find our way. Jesus, our benevolent Exemplar, does not just offer advice and directions; he does more. As we saw in Chapter 1, Jesus invites us, saying: “Come be my follower.” (Mark 10:21) However, he also gives us compelling reason to accept that invitation. On one occasion, Jesus said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) Let us discuss some reasons why approach to the Father is possible only through the Son. Then with those reasons in mind, we will consider how Jesus is, indeed, “the way and the truth and the life.”
    A Vital Place in Jehovah’s Purpose
    3 First and foremost, approach to God is through Jesus because Jehovah has seen fit to give his Son the most important role. The Father has made him the central, or key, figure in the outworking of all of His purposes. (2 Corinthians 1:20; Colossians 1:18-20) To understand the vital role of the Son, we need to consider what happened in the garden of Eden, where the first human couple joined Satan in rebelling against Jehovah.—Genesis 2:16, 17; 3:1-6.
    4 The rebellion in Eden raised an issue of universal importance: Does Jehovah God properly exercise his rulership over his creatures? To settle this vital issue, Jehovah determined that a perfect spirit son would have to go to earth. The mission that this son would carry out could not have been weightier—giving his life to vindicate Jehovah’s sovereignty and to serve as a ransom to save humankind. By remaining faithful to death, the son chosen would make it possible to solve all the problems raised by Satan’s rebellion. (Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 John 3:8) But Jehovah had millions upon millions of perfect spirit sons. (Daniel 7:9, 10) Which one did he select to carry out this most important assignment? Jehovah chose his “only-begotten Son,” the one who later came to be known as Jesus Christ.—John 3:16.
    5 Should we be surprised at Jehovah’s choice? By no means! The Father had the utmost confidence in his only-begotten Son. Centuries in advance of the arrival of his Son on earth, Jehovah foretold that this Son would remain loyal despite undergoing all manner of suffering. (Isaiah 53:3-7, 10-12; Acts 8:32-35) Consider the implications of that. The Son, like all other intelligent creatures, was a free moral agent, able to choose his own course. Yet, Jehovah had such confidence that he foretold the faithfulness of his Son. Upon what was this confidence based? In a word, knowledge. Jehovah knows his Son intimately and knows how much his Son wants to please Him. (John 8:29; 14:31) The Son loves his Father, and in turn, Jehovah loves His Son. (John 3:35) The love that Father and Son have for each other forges between them a bond of unity and trust that is unbreakable.—Colossians 3:14.
    6 In view of the important role of the Son, the confidence that the Father has in him, and the love that binds the Father and the Son together, is it any wonder that approach to God is possible only through Jesus? Yet, there is another reason why the Son alone can lead us to the Father.
    Only the Son Fully Knows the Father
    7 There are requirements to be met if we are to gain access to Jehovah. (Psalm 15:1-5) Who knows better than the Son what it takes to meet God’s standards and to have His approval? Jesus said: “All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.” (Matthew 11:27) Let us see why Jesus could say, correctly and without exaggerating, that no one fully knows the Father “but the Son.”
    8 As “the firstborn of all creation,” the Son has unique intimacy with Jehovah. (Colossians 1:15) Imagine the closeness of the Father-Son relationship that developed during the untold ages when it was just the two of them—from the dawn of creation until other spirit creatures were brought into existence. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16, 17) Just think about the precious opportunity the Son had alongside his Father, absorbing the Father’s thoughts on matters and learning His will, standards, and ways. Truly, it is by no means an overstatement to say that Jesus knows his Father better than anyone else does. This closeness surely enabled Jesus to reveal his Father in ways that no one else could.
    9 The teachings of Jesus reflected his keen awareness of how Jehovah thinks and feels and of what He requires of His worshippers. Jesus revealed his Father in yet another profound way. Jesus said: “He that has seen me has seen the Father also.” (John 14:9) Jesus perfectly imitated his Father in everything he said and did. So when we read in the Bible about Jesus—the powerful and winsome words that he used in his teaching, the compassion that moved him to heal others, and the empathy that caused him to give way to tears—we might well picture Jehovah saying and doing those very things. (Matthew 7:28, 29; Mark 1:40-42; John 11:32-36) The ways and will of the Father are perfectly revealed in the words and actions of the Son. (John 5:19; 8:28; 12:49, 50) Thus, to have Jehovah’s approval, we need to heed the teachings of Jesus and follow his example.—John 14:23.
    10 Since Jesus knows Jehovah intimately and imitates him perfectly, it is not surprising that Jehovah has determined that the Son is the means for approaching the Father. With this foundation for understanding why we can come to Jehovah only through Jesus, let us now discuss the meaning of Jesus’ words: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”—John 14:6.
    “I Am the Way”
    11 We have already learned that there is no approach to God without going through Jesus. Consider, more specifically, what this means for us. Jesus is “the way” in that only through him can we enter into an approved relationship with God. Why is that so? By proving faithful to death, Jesus gave his life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) Without this ransom provision, it would be impossible for us to have access to God. Sin creates a barrier between humans and God, for Jehovah is holy and therefore can never approve of sin. (Isaiah 6:3; 59:2) But the sacrifice of Jesus removed the barrier; it provided the necessary covering, or atonement, for sin. (Hebrews 10:12; 1 John 1:7) If we accept God’s provision through Christ and put faith in it, we can enter into Jehovah’s favor. There is simply no other way for us to become “reconciled to God.”—Romans 5:6-11.
    12 Jesus is “the way” when it comes to prayer. Only through Jesus can we go to Jehovah in prayer with the assurance that our heartfelt petitions will be favorably heard. (1 John 5:13, 14) Jesus himself said: “If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. . . . Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.” (John 16:23, 24) Appropriately, in the name of Jesus, we can approach Jehovah in prayer and call Him “our Father.” (Matthew 6:9) Jesus is “the way” in yet another sense—by his example. As noted earlier, Jesus perfectly imitated his Father. Jesus’ example thus shows us how to live so as to please Jehovah. To approach Jehovah, then, we must walk in the footsteps of Jesus.—1 Peter 2:21.
    “I Am . . . the Truth”
    13 Jesus always spoke the truth about his Father’s prophetic word. (John 8:40, 45, 46) No deception was ever found in Jesus’ mouth. (1 Peter 2:22) Even his opposers acknowledged that he taught “the way of God in line with truth.” (Mark 12:13, 14) However, when Jesus said “I am . . . the truth,” he was not simply referring to the fact that he made truth known in his speaking, preaching, and teaching. More—much more—than talking was involved.
    14 Recall that centuries in advance, Jehovah had inspired Bible writers to record scores of prophecies about the Messiah, or Christ. These prophecies foretold details about his life, ministry, and death. In addition, the Mosaic Law contained shadows, or prophetic patterns, that pointed to the Messiah. (Hebrews 10:1) Would Jesus prove faithful to death, thereby fulfilling all the things prophesied about him? Only then would Jehovah be vindicated as the God of true prophecy. That tremendous weight rested upon the shoulders of Jesus. By the way he lived—every word he spoke and every deed he performed—Jesus brought the prophetic patterns into the realm of actual truth. (2 Corinthians 1:20) Thus, Jesus was “the truth.” It was as if the truth of Jehovah’s prophetic word arrived in the person of Jesus.—John 1:17; Colossians 2:16, 17.
    “I Am . . . the Life”
    15 Jesus is “the life,” for it is only through him that we can receive life—that is, “the real life.” (1 Timothy 6:19) The Bible says: “He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.” (John 3:36) What does it mean to exercise faith in the Son of God? It means that we have the conviction that we cannot gain life without him. More than that, it means that we demonstrate our faith by works, continue to learn from Jesus, and do our best to follow his teachings and example. (James 2:26) Thus, exercising faith in the Son of God leads to everlasting life—immortal spirit life in heaven for a “little flock” of spirit-anointed Christians and perfect human life in an earthly paradise for “a great crowd” of “other sheep.”—Luke 12:32; 23:43; Revelation 7:9-17; John 10:16.
    16 What about those who have already died? Jesus is “the life” for them as well. Shortly before he raised his friend Lazarus from the dead, Jesus told Martha, the sister of Lazarus: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life.” (John 11:25) Jehovah has entrusted his Son with “the keys of death and of Hades,” granting him the power to resurrect. (Revelation 1:17, 18) With those keys, the glorified Jesus will unlock the gates of Hades and thus release all those being held in mankind’s common grave.—John 5:28, 29.
    17 “I am the way and the truth and the life”—with this simple statement, Jesus summarized the objective of his life and ministry on earth. Those words are filled with meaning for us today. Recall that Jesus followed up this statement by saying: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) Jesus’ words are as relevant today as they were when he uttered them. We can therefore have full confidence that if we follow Jesus, we will never become lost. He, and he alone, will show us the way “to the Father.”
    How Will You Respond?
    18 In view of Jesus’ vital role and his intimate knowledge of the Father, we have good reason to follow the Son. As we saw in the preceding chapter, being true followers of Jesus involves actions, not just words or feelings. Following Christ involves patterning our life after his teachings and example. (John 13:15) The study aid that you are now reading can help you in this endeavor.
    19 In the chapters that follow, we will make a careful study of the life and ministry of Jesus. These chapters are divided into three sections. First, we will get an overview of his qualities and ways. Second, we will examine his zealous example in preaching and teaching. Third, we will consider how he manifested love. Starting with Chapter 3, there is a teaching box entitled “How Can You Follow Jesus?” The scriptures and questions therein are designed to help us meditate on how we can imitate Jesus in word and deed.
    20 Thanks to Jehovah God, you do not have to be lost, alienated from him because of inherited sin. At great cost to himself, Jehovah lovingly sent forth his Son to show us the way to come into an approved relationship with God. (1 John 4:9, 10) May you be moved, yes, impelled, to respond to that great love by accepting and acting upon Jesus’ invitation: “Be my follower.”—John 1:43.
    [Footnotes]
    So important is the role of the Son that the Bible gives him a number of prophetic names and titles.—See the box on page 23.
    See, for example, Jesus’ words recorded at Matthew 10:29-31; 18:12-14, 21-35; 22:36-40.
    At John 14:6, the use of the personal pronoun “I” along with the definite article, “the,” stresses that Jesus’ position is unique, that he is the way, the only one through whom we can approach the Father.
    [Study Questions]
    1, 2. Why would approach to Jehovah be impossible on our own, and what has Jesus Christ done for us in this regard?
    3. Why is approach to God through Jesus?
    4. The rebellion in Eden raised what issue, and what did Jehovah determine to do in order to settle the issue?
    5, 6. How did Jehovah demonstrate that he had confidence in his Son, and upon what was this confidence based?
    7, 8. Why could Jesus correctly say that no one fully knows the Father “but the Son”?
    9, 10. (a) In what ways did Jesus reveal his Father? (b) To have Jehovah’s approval, what must we do?
    11. (a) Why can we enter into an approved relationship with God only through Jesus? (b) How do the words recorded at John 14:6 stress the uniqueness of Jesus’ position? (See footnote.)
    12. Jesus is “the way” in what senses?
    13, 14. (a) How was Jesus truthful in his speech? (b) For Jesus to be “the truth,” what did he have to do, and why?
    15. What does it mean to exercise faith in the Son, and to what can doing so lead?
    16, 17. (a) How will Jesus prove to be “the life” even for those who have died? (b) What confidence can we have?
    18. What does being true followers of Jesus involve?
    19, 20. What does this study aid contain that can help you in your endeavor to follow Christ?
    [Box on page 23]
    Some Titles Applied to Jesus Christ
    The Amen (meaning “so be it,” or “surely”). He is the One in whom God’s promises find sure fulfillment.—2 Corinthians 1:19, 20.
    Eternal Father. Jehovah has granted him the power and authority to give humans the prospect of eternal life in perfection on earth.—Isaiah 9:6.
    High Priest. He can cleanse us from sin and liberate us from sin’s death-dealing effects.—Hebrews 3:1; 9:13, 14, 25, 26.
    King of kings. As a heavenly King appointed by God, Jesus is far mightier than any earthly ruler.—Revelation 17:14.
    Prince of Peace. As the Ruler of God’s Kingdom, Jesus will establish on earth a peace that will be global and will never end.—Isaiah 9:6.
    Wonderful Counselor. Jesus’ counsel is always practical and perfect. Following it leads to salvation.—Isaiah 9:6; John 6:68.
    The Word. He is Jehovah’s Spokesman.—John 1:1.
    [Picture on page 14]
    “Be my follower”

  389. on 19 Aug 2011 at 4:04 pm 389.godskingdomway said …

    isa 21:22 There is One who is dwelling above the “circle of the earth’, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell,

    This shows that the bible is unlike any other book that these scriptures indicate that before the time of advanced science jehovah “the revealer of secrets” has been giving us info we would have not known other wise-hence this shows there are many prophecies you may not understand or know about in the bible.Here i will name a few -job 26:7 He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
    Hanging the earth upon nothing;
    dont forget the prophecy recoreded at daniel about king nebuchadnezzar where he had a dream no one but daniel(because of jehovah the revealer of secrets)could interpret.This was about how many world kingdoms would come about before the destruction of the wicked it consisted of symbols that described each empire so precisely that it even mentioned the pt about the roman empire being divide into four sections even about england coming from one of these four sections of rome.But this is pretty heavey stuff i dont expect you to understand yet

  390. on 19 Aug 2011 at 4:07 pm 390.godskingdomway said …

    Science and the Bible—Do They Really Contradict Each Other?
    THE seeds of the clash between Galileo and the Catholic Church were sown centuries before Copernicus and Galileo were born. The earth-centered, or geocentric, view of the universe was adopted by the ancient Greeks and made famous by the philosopher Aristotle (384-322 B.C.E.) and the astronomer-astrologer Ptolemy (second century C.E.).
    Aristotle’s concept of the universe was influenced by the thinking of Greek mathematician and philosopher Pythagoras (sixth century B.C.E.). Adopting Pythagoras’ view that the circle and sphere were perfect shapes, Aristotle believed that the heavens were a series of spheres within spheres, like layers of an onion. Each layer was made of crystal, with the earth at the center. Stars moved in circles, deriving their motion from the outermost sphere, the seat of divine power. Aristotle also held that the sun and other celestial objects were perfect, free of any marks or blemishes and not subject to change.
    Aristotle’s great scheme was a child of philosophy, not science. A moving earth, he felt, would violate common sense. He also rejected the idea of a void, or space, believing that a moving earth would be subject to friction and would grind to a halt without the application of constant force. Because Aristotle’s concept seemed logical within the framework of existing knowledge, it endured in its basic form for almost 2,000 years. Even as late as the 16th century, French philosopher Jean Bodin expressed that popular view, stating: “No one in his senses, or imbued with the slightest knowledge of physics, will ever think that the earth, heavy and unwieldy . . . , staggers . . . around its own center and that of the sun; for at the slightest jar of the earth, we would see cities and fortresses, towns and mountains thrown down.”
    Aristotle Adopted by the Church
    A further step leading to the confrontation between Galileo and the church occurred in the 13th century and involved Catholic authority Thomas Aquinas (1225-74). Aquinas had a profound respect for Aristotle, whom he referred to as The Philosopher. Aquinas struggled for five years to fuse Aristotle’s philosophy with church teaching. By the time of Galileo, says Wade Rowland in his book Galileo’s Mistake, “the hybridized Aristotle in the theology of Aquinas had become bedrock dogma of the Church of Rome.” Keep in mind, too, that in those days there was no scientific community as such. Education was largely in the hands of the church. The authority on religion and science was often one and the same.
    The stage was now set for the confrontation between the church and Galileo. Even before his involvement with astronomy, Galileo had written a treatise on motion. It challenged many assumptions made by the revered Aristotle. However, it was Galileo’s steadfast promotion of the heliocentric concept and his assertion that it harmonizes with Scripture that led to his trial by the Inquisition in 1633.
    In his defense, Galileo affirmed his strong faith in the Bible as the inspired Word of God. He also argued that the Scriptures were written for ordinary people and that Biblical references to the apparent movement of the sun were not to be interpreted literally. His arguments were futile. Because Galileo rejected an interpretation of Scripture based on Greek philosophy, he stood condemned! Not until 1992 did the Catholic Church officially admit to error in its judgment of Galileo.
    Lessons to Be Learned
    What can we learn from these events? For one thing, Galileo had no quarrel with the Bible. Instead, he questioned the teachings of the church. One religion writer observed: “The lesson to be learned from Galileo, it appears, is not that the Church held too tightly to biblical truths; but rather that it did not hold tightly enough.” By allowing Greek philosophy to influence its theology, the church bowed to tradition rather than follow the teachings of the Bible.
    All of this calls to mind the Biblical warning: “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.”—Colossians 2:8.
    Even today, many in Christendom continue to embrace theories and philosophies that contradict the Bible. One example is Darwin’s theory of evolution, which they have accepted in place of the Genesis account of creation. In making this substitution, the churches have, in effect, made Darwin a modern-day Aristotle and evolution an article of faith.
    True Science Harmonizes With the Bible
    The foregoing should in no way discourage an interest in science. To be sure, the Bible itself invites us to learn from God’s handiwork and to discern God’s amazing qualities in what we see. (Isaiah 40:26; Romans 1:20) Of course, the Bible does not claim to teach science. Rather, it reveals God’s standards, aspects of his personality that creation alone cannot teach, and his purpose for humans. (Psalm 19:7-11; 2 Timothy 3:16) Yet, when the Bible does refer to natural phenomena, it is consistently accurate. Galileo himself said: “Both the Holy Scriptures and nature proceed from the Divine Word . . . Two truths can never contradict one another.” Consider the following examples.
    Even more fundamental than the movement of stars and planets is that all matter in the universe is governed by laws, such as the law of gravity. The earliest known non-Biblical reference to physical laws was made by Pythagoras, who believed that the universe could be explained by numbers. Two thousand years later, Galileo, Kepler, and Newton finally proved that matter is governed by rational laws.
    The earliest Biblical reference to natural law is contained in the book of Job. About 1600 B.C.E., God asked Job: “Have you come to know the statutes [or, laws] of the heavens?” (Job 38:33) Recorded in the seventh century B.C.E., the book of Jeremiah refers to Jehovah as the Creator of “the statutes of the moon and the stars” and “the statutes of heaven and earth.” (Jeremiah 31:35; 33:25) In view of these statements, Bible commentator G. Rawlinson observed: “The general prevalence of law in the material world is quite as strongly asserted by the sacred writers as by modern science.”
    If we use Pythagoras as a point of reference, the statement in Job was about a thousand years ahead of its time. Keep in mind that the Bible’s objective is not simply to reveal physical facts but primarily to impress upon us that Jehovah is the Creator of all things—the one who can create physical laws.—Job 38:4, 12; 42:1, 2.
    Another example we can consider is that the earth’s waters undergo a cyclic motion called the water cycle, or the hydrologic cycle. Put simply, water evaporates from the sea, forms clouds, precipitates onto the land, and eventually returns to the sea. The oldest surviving non-Biblical references to this cycle are from the fourth century B.C.E. However, Biblical statements predate that by hundreds of years. For example, in the 11th century B.C.E., King Solomon of Israel wrote: “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.
    Likewise, about 800 B.C.E. the prophet Amos, a humble shepherd and farmworker, wrote that Jehovah is “the One calling for the waters of the sea, that he may pour them out upon the surface of the earth.” (Amos 5:8) Without using complex, technical language, both Solomon and Amos accurately described the water cycle, each from a slightly different perspective.
    The Bible also speaks of God as “hanging the earth upon nothing,” or he “suspends earth in the void,” according to The New English Bible. (Job 26:7) In view of the knowledge available in 1600 B.C.E., roughly when those words were spoken, it would have taken a remarkable man to assert that a solid object can remain suspended in space without any physical support. As previously mentioned, Aristotle himself rejected the concept of a void, and he lived over 1,200 years later!
    Does it not strike you as amazing that the Bible makes such accurate statements—even in the face of the erroneous yet seemingly commonsense perceptions of the day? To thinking people, this is one more evidence of the Bible’s divine inspiration. We are wise, therefore, not to be easily swayed by any teaching or theory that contradicts God’s Word. As history has repeatedly shown, human philosophies, even those of towering intellects, come and go, whereas “the saying of Jehovah endures forever.”—1 Peter 1:25.
    [Footnotes]
    In the third century B.C.E., a Greek named Aristarchus of Samos put forth the hypothesis that the sun is at the center of the cosmos, but his ideas were dismissed in favor of Aristotle’s.
    For an in-depth discussion on this topic, see chapter 15, “Why Do Many Accept Evolution?” in the book Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    [Box/Pictures on page 6]
    The Protestants’ Attitude
    Leaders of the Protestant Reformation also railed against the sun-centered concept. They included Martin Luther (1483-1546), Philipp Melanchthon (1497-1560), and John Calvin (1509-64). Luther said of Copernicus: “This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy.”
    The Reformers based their argument on a literal interpretation of certain scriptures, such as the account in Joshua chapter 10 that mentions that the sun and the moon “kept motionless.” Why did the Reformers take this stand? The book Galileo’s Mistake explains that while the Protestant Reformation broke the papal yoke, it failed to “shake the essential authority” of Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas, whose views were “accepted by Catholic and Protestant alike.”
    [Footnote]
    Scientifically speaking, we use incorrect terms when we refer to “sunrise” and “sunset.” But in everyday speech, these words are both acceptable and accurate, when we keep in mind our terrestrial perspective. Likewise, Joshua was not discussing astronomy; he was simply reporting events as he saw them.

  391. on 19 Aug 2011 at 4:25 pm 391.Lou said …

    387.godskingdomway said …

    “I am not understanding how can you figure that a world without even the thought of god would simply eliminate alot of world trouble.”

    That’s your problem.

    “The last time i checked the idea of darwinism set the stage for racism in the 19 century.”

    Then you need to “check” again. When you do, and you learn that your conclusion is incorrect, then get back to us.

    After your “darwinism” – racism comparison, do your really think that anybody with a modicum of intelligence is going to read your extremely long cut & paste comment? Why don’t you simply post a link to where you copied it?

  392. on 19 Aug 2011 at 6:44 pm 392.Biff said …

    GK,

    I usually will not read these long drawn out posts but yours was an excellent read. Good background and good reasoning although I could do without the study questions.

  393. on 19 Aug 2011 at 10:53 pm 393.nony mouse said …

    Biff, much of GK’s screed was cut and pasted from Watchtower tracts.

    In endorsing his post, what is your position with regard to Jehovah Witnesses’ views; for example, do you reject the trinity, agree that Christ is not divine, that all other branches of Christianity are false, that the only way to interpret the bible is via the auspices of the Watchtower organization through the New World Translation, that exactly and only 144,000 people will go to heaven, Christ returned to earth in 1914, the cross is a pagan symbol and that Christ didn’t die on a cross, and so on?

  394. on 19 Aug 2011 at 11:29 pm 394.Lou said …

    392.nony mouse said …

    “Biff, much of GK’s screed was cut and pasted from Watchtower tracts.”

    mouse, he won’t answer. He’s a dolt. Who would be so ignorant not recognize that GK’s comment was simply a cut & paste (as I previously wrote), then be so ignorant to write “…yours was an excellent read. Good background and good reasoning..” If he replies at all, it will be to exclaim that he didn’t say the the GK comments were GK’s own, but only that they were “an excellent read” – except for the study questions!

    These guys are hilarious. They simply don’t have clue.

  395. on 20 Aug 2011 at 1:42 am 395.godskingdomway said …

    well im not a guy first off, and yes it was cut and pasted. you have to understand that it is gods words that will affect you and not mine. what better way to ensure you recieve the most accurate information than from the faithful and discreet slave.Mouse guy, no we do not believe in the trinity you can google it an find out that the idea of trinities and triads began in ancient babylon which happened to be the first world empire that took over jerusalem in 607 BCE. The scriptures clearly indicate that jesus and jehovah are different but jesus is still divine .john 17: 3 -This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.
    6 “I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth. 9 I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those you have given me; because they are yours, 10 and all my things are yours and yours are mine, and I have been glorified among them
    also the scripture phil 21:6 where jesus gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God
    Frankly jesus prayed to jehovah he said he was along side his father before the earth was .That is clear evidence that the bible teaches jesus was not god ,nor was the word trinity in any translation of the bible.So do jehovahs witnesses believe our translation is the only one that can be used? No,why not?Because even though translators have been biased in thier endeavor, the situation can be likened to a math teacher who has his own way of teaching you may not understand. you could simply go to another math teacher to understand the same subject in a new way.The bible is like math,it teaches the same subject-the will of god.So if a translator interpreted something incorrectly dont give up simply go to the next bible book and cross reference.Eventually you would want a new world translation to stem away from bias translators but it is a preference.Alot of witnesses use king james version in thier ministry because others are more comfortable around it.The superstition of eliminating gods name however will incur the last scripture of revelations (go read it).Next you said christ did not die on a cross,that is true he did not.The hebrew word for cross is stau·ros?it refers to an upright pole, stake, or post.The book The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons, explains: “There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross.”
    As recorded at Acts 5:30, the apostle Peter used the word xy?lon, meaning “tree,” as a synonym for stau·ros?, denoting, not a two-beamed cross, but an ordinary piece of upright timber or tree. It was not until about 300 years after Jesus’ death that some professed Christians promoted the idea that Jesus was put to death on a two-beamed cross. However, this view was based on tradition and a misuse of the Greek word stau·ros?. It is noteworthy that some ancient drawings depicting Roman executions feature a single wooden pole or tree
    You also mentioned something about all other branches of christianity being false.Ask yourself who is doing gods will. I have pasted something for you
    Do All Religions Please God?
    Do you feel that all religions please God? Probably any form of worship that you know about encourages good conduct, at least to some extent. But is that enough to please God?
    SOME say, ‘Just be sincere in your worship, and God will be pleased. There is good in all religions.’ For example, the Bahai Faith has carried this view to the point of adopting into its beliefs the nine principal religions of the world. This religious group holds that all of these are of divine origin and are facets of one truth. How could this be so?
    Further, you have a right to wonder how a religion could please God when it orders its members to plant nerve gas in public places, with the possibility of killing many people. That charge has been leveled against one religious group in Japan. Or is God pleased with a religion that causes its members to commit suicide? A few years ago, that happened to followers of the religious leader Jim Jones.
    Looking back to earlier times, we may well ask, Can religions please God when they foment warfare, as in the case of the Thirty Years’ War, fought from 1618 to 1648? According to The Universal History of the World, that religious conflict between Catholics and Protestants was “one of the most terrible wars of European history.”
    The religious Crusades from the 11th to the 13th century also resulted in horrible bloodshed. In the first Crusade, for example, the so-called Christian crusaders brutally slaughtered the Muslim and Jewish residents of Jerusalem.
    Consider, too, what happened during the Inquisition, which began in the 13th century and lasted about 600 years. Thousands were tortured and burned to death at the order of religious leaders. In his book Vicars of Christ—The Dark Side of the Papacy, Peter De Rosa states: “In the pope’s name, [the inquisitors] were responsible for the most savage and sustained onslaught on human decency in the history of the [human] race.” Regarding the Dominican inquisitor Torquemada of Spain, De Rosa says: “Appointed in 1483, he ruled tyrannically for fifteen years. His victims numbered over 114,000 of whom 10,220 were burned.”
    Of course, the religions of Christendom are not the only ones that are bloodguilty. In his work Pensées, French philosopher Blaise Pascal observed: “Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.”
    Recognized by Their Fruits
    From God’s standpoint, a religion’s acceptability is not based on just one factor. For a religion to be acceptable to him, its teachings and activities must conform to his written Word of truth, the Bible. (Psalm 119:160; John 17:17) The fruitage of God-approved worship must conform to Jehovah God’s standards.
    In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ indicated that there would be prophets falsely claiming to represent God. Jesus said: “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:15-20) These words show that we need to be on guard spiritually. We may think that a religious leader or group is acceptable to God and Christ, but we could be mistaken.
    A Need for Caution
    Though a religion claims to have God’s approval and its ministers read passages from the Bible, that does not mean that it is a form of worship pleasing to God. Its leaders might even do impressive things that make it seem as if God were working through them. Nevertheless, the religion could still be false, not producing fruitage acceptable to God. Magic-practicing Egyptian priests of Moses’ day were able to do impressive things, but they certainly did not have God’s approval.—Exodus 7:8-22.
    Today as in the past, many religions promote human ideas and philosophies instead of adhering to what God declares to be the truth. Especially appropriate, then, is the Bible’s warning: “Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ.”—Colossians 2:8.
    After speaking about good and bad fruitage, Jesus said: “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”—Matthew 7:21-23.
    Examine the Fruitage
    Clearly, then, it is essential to look at the fruitage of a religion before concluding that it is acceptable to God. For instance, is the religion involved with politics? Then note these words, recorded at James 4:4: “Whoever . . . wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.” Moreover, Jesus said of his true followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:16) The religion that is good in God’s eyes is not involved with the politics of this world, which “is lying in the power of the wicked one,” the invisible spirit creature Satan the Devil. (1 John 5:19) Instead, the religion that God approves loyally advocates his Kingdom under Jesus Christ and declares the good news concerning that heavenly government.—Mark 13:10.
    Is a religion acceptable to God if it advocates civil disobedience? The answer is obvious if we heed the apostle Paul’s counsel: “Continue reminding them to be in subjection and be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers, to be ready for every good work.” (Titus 3:1) Of course, Jesus showed that his followers were to “pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”—Mark 12:17.
    Suppose a religion encourages participation in the wars of the nations. First Peter 3:11 urges us to “do what is good” and to “seek peace and pursue it.” How can a religion please God if its members are willing to kill their fellow worshipers of another country in warfare? Members of the religion that has God’s approval reflect his principal quality—love. And Jesus said: “By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) That love has nothing in common with the violent hatred fostered in the wars of the nations.
    True religion changes warlike people into lovers of peace. This was foretold in these words: “They will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.” (Isaiah 2:4) Instead of spewing out words of hatred, those who practice true worship comply with the command: “You must love your neighbor as yourself.”—Matthew 22:39.
    Those practicing true religion strive to live by the high standards of Jehovah God, refusing to adopt immoral life-styles. God’s Word states: “What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.”—1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
    A Time for Decisive Action
    It is essential to discern the difference between false worship and true religion. In the Bible book of Revelation, the world empire of false religion is identified as “Babylon the Great,” a symbolic harlot “with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication.” She is bloodguilty and holds a golden cup “full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication.” (Revelation 17:1-6) There is nothing acceptable to God about her.
    This is a time for decisive action. To sincere people still in Babylon the Great, our loving Creator sends out this call: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”—Revelation 18:4.
    If you wish to practice religion that pleases God, why not get better acquainted with Jehovah’s Witnesses? The accompanying chart lists some of their beliefs, along with Scriptural reasons for these. Check your Bible to see if the beliefs of the Witnesses harmonize with God’s Word. Investigate to find out if their religion produces the kind of fruitage you would expect of true worship. If you find that it does, you will have discovered the religion that pleases God.
    [Box on page 5]
    WHAT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES BELIEVE
    BELIEF BIBLICAL BASIS
    God’s name is Jehovah Exodus 6:3; Psalm 83:18
    The Bible is God’s Word John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17
    Jesus Christ is God’s Son Matthew 3:16, 17; John 14:28
    Mankind did not evolve Genesis 1:27; 2:7
    but was created
    Human death is due to the Romans 5:12
    first man’s sin
    The soul ceases to exist Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Ezekiel 18:4
    at death
    Hell is mankind’s common grave Job 14:13; Revelation 20:13,
    King James Version
    Resurrection is the hope John 5:28, 29; 11:25; Acts 24:15
    for the dead
    Christ gave his earthly life Matthew 20:28; 1 Peter 2:24;
    as the ransom for obedient 1 John 2:1, 2
    humans
    Prayers must be directed only Matthew 6:9; John 14:6, 13, 14
    to Jehovah through Christ
    Bible’s laws on morals 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
    must be obeyed
    Images must not be used Exodus 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 10:14
    in worship
    Spiritism must be avoided Deuteronomy 18:10-12;
    Galatians 5:19-21
    Blood must not be taken Genesis 9:3, 4; Acts 15:28, 29
    into one’s body
    Jesus’ true followers keep John 15:19; 17:16; James 1:27; 4:4
    separate from the world
    Christians witness, Isaiah 43:10-12;
    declaring the good news Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20
    Baptism by complete water Mark 1:9, 10; John 3:22;
    immersion symbolizes Acts 19:4, 5
    dedication to God
    Religious titles are Job 32:21, 22; Matthew 23:8-12
    unscriptural
    We are living in Daniel 12:4; Matthew 24:3-14;
    “the time of the end” 2 Timothy 3:1-5
    Christ’s presence is invisible Matthew 24:3; John 14:19;
    1 Peter 3:18
    Satan is this world’s John 12:31; 1 John 5:19
    invisible ruler
    God will destroy the present Daniel 2:44;
    wicked system of things Revelation 16:14, 16; 18:1-8
    God’s Kingdom under Christ Isaiah 9:6, 7; Daniel 7:13, 14;
    will rule the earth Matthew 6:10
    in righteousness
    A “little flock” is to rule Luke 12:32;
    in heaven with Christ Revelation 14:1-4; 20:4
    Others whom God approves Luke 23:43; John 3:16;
    will receive eternal life Revelation 21:1-4
    on a paradise earth
    [Picture on page 4]
    Thousands were murdered during the Inquisition
    [Picture on page 6]
    The Crusades resulted in horrible bloodshed
    [Picture on page 7]
    True religion is known by its good fruitage
    [Picture Credit Line on page 2]
    Cover: Garo Nalbandian
    furthermore false teachings are from demons (1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons

  396. on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:28 am 396.godskingdomway said …

    I hope you understand our beliefs.They were a little jumbled up but read carefully and you will see that if one follows the bible to the these are the teachings you must abide by.I hope this clears alot up.Remember God will fix all the trouble caused by satan in the new paradise he is going to create for us on earth.rev 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. Those amputees you worry about if they were to gain the gift of everlasting life then they will be healed so change the name of your website to why wont god heal amputees when i want him to? I deeply hope that these post have helped you to see that you should now reconsider the facts the bible have to offer ,because it means your life and the life of your offspring and your relationship with someone who loves you in a perfect way better then anyone else.yOU WOULD BE SO HAPPY IF YOU REALIZE YOUR SPIRITUAL NEED

  397. on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:58 am 397.DPK said …

    395.godskingdomway said …
    I hope you understand our beliefs. They were a little jumbled up but read carefully and you will see that if one follows the bible to the these are the teachings you must abide by.

    I hope someday you will come to realize the total delusion and brainwashing you have been indoctrinated to and will somehow find the strength to cast aside these ridiculous, ancient superstitions and live the one life you have as a free and rational human being. Life is too short to spend it in serfdom to an imaginary being. Good luck.

  398. on 20 Aug 2011 at 11:24 am 398.Lou said …

    396.DPK said …

    “I hope someday you will come to realize the total delusion and brainwashing you have been indoctrinated to and will somehow find the strength to cast aside these ridiculous, ancient superstitions and live the one life you have as a free and rational human being. Life is too short to spend it in serfdom to an imaginary being. Good luck.”

    godskingdomway obviously has some mental problems. What’s frightening is that she might be a parent, teacher, peace officer, or a person of some other authority. But what’s down-right terrifying is that there are people like her running for President!

  399. on 20 Aug 2011 at 11:30 am 399.Lou said …

    394.godskingdomway said …

    “what better way to ensure you recieve the most accurate information than from the faithful and discreet slave.”

    WRONG, godsnutcase! The best way would be to receive the message directly from such a god. But that will NEVER happen because there is no god to deliver such a message. Everything you c & p is nonsense, crack-pot, b.s. that was written by and is spread by bat-shit crazy people like you.

  400. on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:24 pm 400.Anti-Theist said …

    Lou…

    You surly seem to come here just to tear at peoples beliefs. Does it make you feel superior? Do you get other benefits from this type of confrontation? Why do you seek out and argue with people you cannot change by force?

  401. on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:29 pm 401.godskingdomway said …

    first off all information comes from the watchtower library it is a cd rom that contains all the answers to almost any question you would have.Second I can tell that you guys are rude,you think simply because you differ in opinions with someone you should call them names and disrespectfully belittle thier beliefs.I have shown you what the bible teaches, never once did I make a remark about you being unfit to be parents and etc.yOU NEED TO FREE YOUR MINDS FROM SATAN PROPAGANDA.Never once have you or scientists been able to say that something in the bible is untrue not capable of occuring or that God does not exsist.All you have been able to do is provide inferior alternatives.By the way thier is no one like me running for president because (true worshipers like i said in my post) do not support politics. We support gods kingdom as our only salvation.If you are reasonable people then you should clearly see evidence for what it is.The possibility of gods exsistence is far greater then the theory of evolution or the big bang theory.God wants people who are willing to obey his standard in the kingdom.WHY?This is because all his worshipors know that the fullfillment of the law is you love your brother.If you claim to love god and yet you hate your brother then you are a liar.This is scripture.So sins you beleive to be small like fornication we do not practice because we know of the outcomes and how it hurts our brothers.If you fornicate then what are the outcomes you ask.Well theres heartbrake,disease,unwanted pregnancy, people abort or adopt children -that causes pain.the only good outcome is that you might get married but why not just be safe and leave sex till after marriage.So people who learn from jehovahs standards then began to see that everything you do affects someone else and if you love them then dont step on thier toes.You may see it as a burden, thats why regardless if no one ever believes in god suffering will still exsist because people want to do what they want regardless of how it will affect others.false religion ie babylon the great only provides people with a false sence that its alright ,but people also deny that what they are doing is wrong to themselves(like athiest who do wrong on thier own without the bases of religion).So you said the best way to recieve the word of god is from god himself dont forget the bible is from god himself .Infact in the isrealite time jehovah spoke to all of them and they told moses please talk to god and relay the message to us because they feared if jehovah spoke to them again they would die.He didnt say anything bad to them but they were scared of his power.You have to understand that the way you want god to relay a message to you or perform a miracle he has been there done that and people still refuse to listen.So unless a person see the need to obey the commands of god to better the human race and to love god because he loved us first then there is no point in talking with you.Despite your rude remarks i understand that this website makes money for you so you need to save face by simply calling me crazy.Regardless i am posting something about evolution and creation.Do not forget that even if you do believe in evolution then ask how did the stars,gravity,water,earth,the universe come to be.Automatically you know the answer is not evolution

  402. on 20 Aug 2011 at 2:32 pm 402.Lou said …

    399.Anti-Theist said …

    “Lou…

    You surly seem to come here just to tear at peoples beliefs. Does it make you feel superior? Do you get other benefits from this type of confrontation? Why do you seek out and argue with people you cannot change by force?”

    Hmmm…why do they come here?

    Anybody who spreads such craziness deserves whatever they get. Too many people let it slide. If they don’t like that I “tear” at their beliefs, then they should keep their crazy beliefs to themselves.

    It’s not as if I’m posting comments about their beliefs at an xtian or similar website. When they comment here, they do so at the risk of being challenged and ridiculed.

  403. on 20 Aug 2011 at 3:03 pm 403.godskingdomway said …

    Evolution Contrary to Scientific Fact
    THEY say it is a woman’s right to change her mind, but we say it is the scientist that makes the most use of this feminine privilege. Is it not true that the theories of scientists change like women’s fashions? that what is in high esteem today may be derided in contempt tomorrow? that it is seldom safe to be dogmatic on any of the changing theories of scientists?
    Why, look how they have changed their minds on this matter of evolution. They used to vow that life started spontaneously in some mud puddle millions of years ago, but now science textbooks admit that this is not so, that no one knows how life started.
    These scientists used to teach that environment caused changes in animals, which changes were passed on to offspring, which developed them further, till after thousands of years completely different animals evolved. But you know that is not true. You know Chinese women used to bind their feet, but it did not cause their babies to be born with deformed feet. Some tribes stretch their lips or bind their heads into queer shapes, but their babies do not inherit these deformed lips or heads. You can lie on the beach for years and become heavily sun-tanned, but your offspring will not be born sun-tanned. Now even the scientists realize such changes acquired in later life because of environment are not passed on to offspring. So the evolutionists have discarded this theory they once fanatically swore by.
    Then came Charles Darwin, who said small variations occurred in the forms of animals, and that through natural selection and survival of the fittest the good variations were preserved and over the centuries accumulated till new families were formed. But today the up-to-date evolutionists indulgently smile at Darwin as a well-meaning chap, but do not take him seriously. As one of them said: “Darwin has been shorn of his theory as completely as Samson was shorn of his locks.”
    And who was the modern Delilah that clipped Darwin’s hair? One he considered his supporter, geology. Geology is the study of the earth’s rocks and layers, and in these layers are found fossil forms of life that existed in the dim past. The evolutionist would have us believe that in this fossil record of the rocks we can see the story of life slowly evolving from small beginnings up to man. But honest investigation does not show us any fossils that connect two different animal families. Rather, it shows new families appearing suddenly, and that once in existence they did not change greatly. Geology testified against Darwin’s theory.
    Moreover, geology dealt another devastating blow to evolution. First appearance of fossils is in earth layers evolutionists say are 500 million years old. But these first fossils are of life in such advanced forms that the evolutionists say life must have been in existence for 1000 million years before, because it would take evolution that long to get little one-celled animals evolved up to these advanced forms that are found in the first fossils. What does this mean? Why, it means that though they say life has been in existence for 1500 million years, they have fossil record of life back only 500 million years, and that therefore they have no record at all of the first 1000 million years of evolution! Two-thirds of the fossil record they need is a blank! May we suggest that the scientists not fret themselves too much looking for the missing link? What they need to find is the missing chain!
    SHIFT TO SUDDEN CHANGES
    At any rate, after geology so riddled the idea of slow evolving of life to bridge family after family, after it showed that the various families of life appeared suddenly and remained constant, the evolutionists changed their minds again, buried Darwin’s theory with mourning, and revised their teachings once more. As evidence of this revision, Doctor Clark, a Smithsonian Institution biologist and evolutionist, said no links connected major groups of animals, that the gaps were natural and not due to a deficiency in the fossil record, and he further said: “So far as concerns the major groups of animals the creationists seem to have the better of the argument. There is not the slightest evidence that any one of the major groups arose from any other.”
    Doctor Clark’s confession is confirmed by a French scientist, an evolutionist, who wrote in his book Human Destiny: “Each group, order, or family seems to be born suddenly and we hardly ever find the forms which connect a new group with an ancient one.” He goes on to admit that reptiles appear suddenly, that they cannot be linked with any earthly ancestors, and makes the same admission about mammals. About birds he says they have “all the unsatisfactory characteristics of absolute creation”. Now, why should he call the “characteristics of absolute creation” “unsatisfactory”? Because to the evolution-religion creation is heresy!
    Nevertheless, scientists have been forced to face the fact that new families appeared suddenly, with all the unsatisfactory characteristics of creation. So what do they do? Acknowledge creation? They would never dream of doing that! So they trot out a new theory that will let them face the fact of families appearing suddenly, without having to face creation. They now preach mutations. A mutation is a sudden change between parent and offspring, such as happens in the case of freaks.
    Would it not be possible for a flood of mutations to quickly form a new family? Evolutionists would like to show this, but mutations are very rare in nature. However, scientists have learned that by subjecting the parents to atomic radiation they can cause a heavy run of mutations. So they have taken animals that reproduce quickly, subjected them to radiation, and thus noted changes that would ordinarily have taken many thousands of generations to get. They did this with a little fruit fly, and followed it through enough generations to turn an ape into a man, according to their theory. What, then, was the amazing change effected in the little fruit fly? Did it turn into a bumble bee? or a June bug? No; it was still the same little fruit fly they started with, still undergoing mutations that changed its eyes from red to white, and back again, that changed its wings from long to short, and back again.
    And here is an odd thing. If mutations cause evolution, and if evolution made a man of us from nothing, why are the scientists so afraid of mutations? They are, for that is why they dread the aftereffects of atomic bombing. The radiation from such explosions causes mutations, and Life magazine recently reported scientists as saying: “The mutations among the Japanese exposed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki may plague the human race for thousands of years.” The fact is, small mutations weaken the species, big mutations produce freaks that soon die or cannot reproduce. Instead of evolving life upward to higher forms, mutations are harmful. Life magazine recently said: “Five years of tests have shown that radiation produces no abnormalities that do not occasionally show up in nature. No useful mutations have appeared, and none is anticipated.”
    Well, there are the hard, cheerless facts facing the evolutionists who had hoped their failing theory could gain salvation by mutations. They grabbed at mutations as the straw to keep afloat their sinking theory, but that straw has become about as useful to them as a millstone around the neck of a drowning man, and once again the evolutionists are thrown face to face with creation. From the fog of wishful thinking the firm fact emerges that they do not have a shred of scientific evidence on which to base their fantastic, unscientific, senseless, silly theory of evolution!
    EVOLUTION’S FOUNDATION
    But their theory does have a foundation, and about the same adjectives can be used to describe it. This theory was taught in ancient Babylon. Traces of it are found in the religions of the Hindus and Mayans. Greek philosophers taught it in the fourth and fifth centuries before Christ. To this day savage tribes in many parts of the earth believe it. You have all heard of totem poles. Well, many tribes have their totem, which is usually an animal or plant, and they believe they descended from the animal that is their totem. On this the Encyclopædia Britannica says:
    “The turtle clan of the Iroquois are descended from a fat turtle, which, burdened by the weight of its shell in walking, contrived by great exertions to throw it off, and thereafter gradually developed into a man. The cray-fish clan of the Choctaws were originally cray-fish and lived underground, coming up occasionally through the mud to the surface. Once a party of Choctaws smoked them out, and, treating them kindly, taught them the Choctaw language, taught them to walk on two legs, made them cut off their toenails and pluck the hair from their bodies, after which they adopted them into the tribe.”
    Christendom’s clergy are quick to swallow this fairy tale of evolution. The Catholic Encyclopedia says under “Evolution”: “It is in perfect agreement with the Christian conception of the universe. That God should have made use of natural, evolutionary, original causes in the production of man’s body is per se not improbable, and was propounded by St. Augustine.” During August, 1950, Pope Pius XII issued an encyclical on Catholic doctrine, and the official English translation showed that therein the pope did not forbid the study of evolution, but that such study should be limited to “inquiries into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter—for Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God”. (New York Times, August 22) He opens the door to evolution of man’s body, while unscripturally separating the soul therefrom. Space forbids quoting Protestant and Jewish authorities, but many of them have similar views.
    From all this we see that when evolutionists charge Bible believers with being old-fashioned, ignorant, gullible, believers in myths and legends and superstitions, they are only hurling a charge that boomerangs to crash back on their own heads! On the other hand, the Bible is the most up-to-date book, telling us of things to come in the next thousand years, of a blessed new world that will never end. Let us consider some of the Bible testimony concerning God’s creation, and see whether it fits the known scientific facts better than evolution. As Jehovah invites, “Come now, and let us reason together.”
    REASONING TOGETHER
    First reason about the earth. God says he made the earth, created it not in vain, formed it to be inhabited. The facts show he made it just right for us. If it rotated much faster or slower, if it were much closer or farther from the sun, or if the sun were much hotter or cooler than it is, we would roast or freeze. If the moon were much nearer to earth tides would cover lowlands, erode mountains, level continents, till water covered the entire earth. If the mixture of gases in earth’s atmosphere were much different, we would die. If the earth were not tilted on its axis we would have no seasons, water vapor from oceans would move north and south, fall as snow and ice at the poles, never melt, leave desert in between, and soon oceans would disappear and rainfall cease.
    Consider man. The Bible says he was created in God’s image, with wisdom, justice, love and power. This explains the big gulf between man and any other animal. Man alone has ability to reason, determine right and wrong, manifest conscience, and has the urge to worship a higher power. Science says man uses but a small percentage of his marvelous brain. Evolution would not evolve something that was never used, but perfect man was created with his wonderful brain and used it in the beginning, though degenerate man does not now use it fully. Man was created far above all other animals, that he might be fitted to exercise intelligent dominion over them.
    The Bible shows that man was created with the power of speech, and was able from the beginning to coin new words, giving names to the animals. Evolution says as man evolved from ape he also evolved his present speech from animal grunts and growls. The facts say No. A science magazine states: “Older forms of the languages known today were far more difficult than their modern descendants. Man appears not to have begun with a simple speech, and gradually made it more complex, but rather to have gotten hold of a tremendously knotty speech somewhere in the unrecorded past, and gradually simplified it to the modern form.” The Bible account fits these facts. Man started out with a highly developed language, but man’s speech has degenerated with him.
    The Bible states that one human pair was created, and this pair was commanded to multiply and fill the earth. Now evolutionists admit all men descended from one original pair, that there is no real difference in races. A scientific magazine recently said: “The story of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis has been vindicated, in part at least, by science. Its main point is now generally accepted as true: namely, that there is only one human family . . . with a common origin.” The Genesis record of creation tells that God made each family group to reproduce after its kind, yet each family has power to vary widely within its family boundaries. That is why there is such variety in the cat family, dog family, or human family with its many races. That is why men can develop a variety of domestic horses or cows or chickens. But despite this ability to vary widely, each family reproduces after its family kind: cats have cats, dogs dogs, horses horses, monkeys monkeys, and men men. Cats do not have pups, or dogs colts, or monkeys human babies, no more than women have kittens. This Scriptural unchangeableness of family kind is proved by the fossil record.
    Another point to reason on. Evolution means to develop upward, to improve. But facts say man is degenerating, morally and physically, the victim of increasing mental and physical ailments. Despite increase of hospitals, clinics, trained doctors, improved medicines and greater knowledge of the human body, the degeneration that set in with Adam’s disobedience continues. It has drastically cut down on man’s life span. Before the Flood men lived several centuries, a fact now confirmed by archeological discoveries. Those men were near to humanity’s perfect start in Eden; degeneration had not had time to cut into their life span so heavily.
    TESTIMONY OF VISIBLE CREATION
    All along the line, in every respect we see that the Bible account fits the facts of true science, while evolution is a misfit in every way. But obstinately ignoring the facts and shunning reason, men of science prattle their empty theory. Were they not so wise in their own conceit, so puffed up in their own knowledge, they could not fail to see the evidence of God’s creative power and wisdom all around them. They could see it when they peer through their telescopes at the star-studded heavens, or when they squint into their microscopes, even noting the tiny solar systems of the atoms. Without their telescopes and microscopes, they can still see God’s wisdom all around.
    Man uses electricity? So does the electric eel. Man has artificial lighting? So does the firefly. He is a good engineer? So is the spider that spins a web, the bird that weaves a nest, the beaver that builds a dam, the wasp that manufactures paper, the bee that air-conditions its hive, the ant that builds bridges. Man can navigate the pathless seas of water and trackless oceans of air? So can the eels and birds that migrate for thousands of miles. And what about the moth that uses radio? the octopus that uses jet propulsion? and the bat that uses radar? Yes, what about all this? Should it not deflate the wiseacres of this world, to see that these little creatures of no intelligence have instinctively used man’s modern inventions for thousands and thousands of years? Men should see reflected in these things the wisdom and power of the Creator that made them. But do they? God’s Word answers: “Ever since the creation of the universe God’s invisible attributes—his everlasting power and divinity—are to be seen and studied in his works, so that men have no excuse . . . Their speculations about him proved futile, and their undiscerning minds were darkened. Professing to be wise, they showed themselves fools.”—Rom. 1:20-22, Twen. Cen. N.T.
    Men of good will do not want to be found fools. They will reason on these matters, see how God’s Word fits the facts. They will not be stumbled by evolution while en route to Jehovah’s promised new world, but will discern that it is just an old-fashioned, unprovable pagan myth. They appreciate that Satan has revived it in these last days to blind men to the good news of the new world, that with this evolution bait he has hooked the wise and haughty, the puffed up and proud. It has become the chief stone of stumbling to trip up this wise, modern, brilliant generation of science worshipers. To such moderns science is a sacred cow—but their cow has gone dry so far as its being able to nurse evolution is concerned!
    Armed with both scientific truth and Bible truth, Christians can prove God true, though it make all evolutionists liars.—Rom. 3:4.
    [Footnotes]
    For a more detailed study see the 64-page Watchtower booklet Evolution versus The New World.
    [Picture on page 421]
    Spontaneous Generation
    Acquired Characteristics
    Natural Selection
    Scientific Facts
    Mutations

  404. on 20 Aug 2011 at 3:12 pm 404.godskingdomway said …

    at lou,you say since people come to your website they deserve what they get.Well i understand the critical looking at my beliefs but the insults are overkill.If someone who does not like gay people live on a certain block and everyone knows this person to have strong feelings against homosexuals does that give that person the right to say at every passing gay you dont deserve to have kids,you dont deserve to have a government job,your crazy for being gay,your a crackpot!Then should that person say, “well if you pass my block i have the right to call you names?”That is the thinking that destroys human societies not the bible

  405. on 20 Aug 2011 at 3:19 pm 405.godskingdomway said …

    oh just in case you dont feel like reading my large post i want to urge you to read it.The part about the idea of evolving from animals originating in babylon with traces in hindus and mayan religion you have heard of todom poles right? you should read the post its thrilling how people are tricked into serving gods without even knowing they are.Plus the watchtoer cd rom has so much more information on evolution vs creation we even have a book on it. I have a copy in my house and my cd rom

  406. on 20 Aug 2011 at 3:40 pm 406.godskingdomway said …

    so lou, who has been indoctrinated with ideas.The theory of evolution ,holidays,media,patriotism,all ideas you have been brainwashed with.Dont worry you may feel a world without religion is best but at the mark of the tribulation (I will translate a prophesy for you)religion will be abolished by the political system.That is when the mark of the beast comes about it means that after the government has completely outlawed practices of worship to god thay will then expect you to serve them as if they are god.Patriotism will be the new world religion ,those are the people who have 666 on thier foreheads and right hands(metaphorically)as a sign that they serve the world empire.Its said that things will get so bad that if the 144,000 had not been around we would surely all die but those days will be cut short.You may not understand this fully,but a world runed by no one religious will soon come to pass and i bet then you will remember these words .I hope you find witnesses then and have a study we will not allow the government to stop us from preaching.The bible says jesus followers will preach the good news in all the inhabitted earth then the end will come.I hope that we come to your door someone suitable to answer all your questions.I would love to be in paradise and one day i overhear someone talking about having come to the truth because someone who wrote to him on his athiest website.I would turn around and say was your screen name lou and then you would say yes.I would be so delighted

  407. on 20 Aug 2011 at 4:51 pm 407.Lou said …

    404.godskingdomway said …

    “The part about the idea of evolving from animals originating in babylon with traces in hindus and mayan religion you have heard of todom poles right?”

    Folks, I rest my case. Ignoring the fact that this idea and all the others that she c & p is utter nonsense, this person can’t compose a coherent sentence.

  408. on 20 Aug 2011 at 4:54 pm 408.Lou said …

    403.godskingdomway said …

    “If someone who does not like gay people live on a certain block and everyone knows this person to have strong feelings against homosexuals does that give that person the right to say at every passing gay you dont deserve to have kids,you dont deserve to have a government job,your crazy for being gay,your a crackpot!Then should that person say, “well if you pass my block i have the right to call you names?”That is the thinking that destroys human societies not the bible”

    You completely distorted and misrepresented what I wrote. Not only are you crazy, you’re also dishonest.

  409. on 20 Aug 2011 at 4:59 pm 409.T-square said …

    “When they comment here, they do so at the risk of being challenged and ridiculed.”

    Let us know when the challenges begin. You must be one bored little boy to spend so much time arguing about something you do not believe exists.

  410. on 20 Aug 2011 at 5:11 pm 410.MrQ said …

    WOW, #402-405 GKW
    What does it all mean? Essentially you are happy and comfortable having accepted the JW doctrine.
    It also may mean that your conclusions about evolution, faith, and belief are what I would call “on railroad tracks”. The train is happily chugging down the line carefully laid out for you.
    You make some strong assumptions about how the sciences work. Yes, ideas and theories do change, but only when a STRONG body of evidence points in a new direction (Thankfully the science train has the ability to switch tracks)… Because science is the HONEST investigation and interpretation of the facts and data. We do NOT have all the data (never will), therefore we investigate and THINK. Try it for yourself. But if your faith and the c&p passages you have “blessed” us with gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and insulates you from the cold hard facts of reality, then stay the course.

  411. on 20 Aug 2011 at 8:23 pm 411.Severin said …

    400godskingdomway
    “Never once have you or scientists been able to say that something in the bible is untrue not capable of occuring or that God does not exsist.”

    Did Noah take kangaroos on his boat?

  412. on 20 Aug 2011 at 8:37 pm 412.godskingdomway said …

    I am sorry if you felt as if i am dishonest but you did say’Anybody who spreads such craziness deserves whatever they get. Too many people let it slide. If they don’t like that I “tear” at their beliefs, then they should keep their crazy beliefs to themselves.’you also said to me

    ‘godskingdomway obviously has some mental problems. What’s frightening is that she might be a parent, teacher, peace officer, or a person of some other authority. But what’s down-right terrifying is that there are people like her running for President!”

    so you are being dishonest.Simply believing in a higher power that instructs me to consider others first and to be content with sustenance and covering rather then persuing endlessly material possesions as number one is why i should not be a parent or teacher. Hence why i said that senario.So if you had your way you would run the government and take my child away and forbid me from obtaining such careers.Now do you see that a christian a follower of jehovah knows that some people will not accept the truth but we would not say that you should have any less rights then the rest of us.

    Mr Q: Science is the honest interpretation of facts and data.This is true.However scientist who are as bias as you who refuse to accept the idea of god are ignoring certain laws that would disprove thier so called evidence.Like you who read the passage but ignored the part about the mayan and hindus civilizations that came up with the idea of evolving from animals for religious reasons.The facts are what?I have put some in front of you but you have yet to put any before me.Prove how evolution is fact.The earth is round is a fact the theory of evolution is a never change ending Theory.Here are some more undenialable FACTS!

    The Bible and Creation in the Light of Modern Science
    “Know that Jehovah is God. It is he that has made us, and not we ourselves.”—Ps. 100:3.
    THE race for the moon and outer space keeps the eyes of many focused on science and its achievements. Protection of nations is sought by means of scientific advancements in military weapons. Underdeveloped nations look to machines that science has fashioned as the way to industrial progress. In the medical field science is thought to give much hope for the elimination of sickness and disease. Yes, the progress that science has made in some fields causes many to feel that it can be relied upon for the ultimate answer in many other fields of knowledge.
    2 Therefore, when respected scientists comment on the origin of man they are thought to be speaking of fact. Because most scientists accept and teach that man evolved from the lower animals, the masses of mankind believe this to be true. Since science is defined as “a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws,” people feel that the scientists have facts when they speak about the ascent of man from beast. As this idea contradicts the Bible teaching that man was created by God, many feel that they can no longer believe the Bible; they think modern science has disproved it.
    3 However, modern science has not disproved the Bible, not one line of it. Actually, the opposite is true. Although the Bible was not written as a scientific treatise, where it touches on things scientific it does not conflict with the facts, but it does conflict with some of the unproved theories and speculations of men. The “body of facts or truths” that have come to light in modern times has in no way contradicted the Bible, especially its account of man’s creation. To the contrary, modern scientific “facts or truths,” as opposed to speculations, have repeatedly corroborated the words of Jesus when he said: “Your word is truth.”—John 17:17.
    WHY DO MANY DISBELIEVE?
    4 If science corroborates the Bible, then why is it that so many people today do not believe the Bible and do not accept it as God’s Word, a guide for their lives? Most assuredly, it is not because science has disproved the Bible. Some have been led to believe it has, and for this reason they turn away. But there are also other reasons why many disbelieve the Bible, reasons that the Christian would do well to keep in mind so as not to be duped by unscientific mouthings just because they issue from prominent scientists. Keeping these reasons in mind will help you to “guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches that violate what is holy and from the contradictions of the falsely called ‘knowledge.’ For making a show of such knowledge some have deviated from the faith.”—1 Tim. 6:20, 21.
    5 Some do not believe the Bible because they are simply ignorant of its contents, not having studied it with an unprejudiced mind. Others abandon the Bible because of Christendom’s ridiculous explanations of what it contains, such as teaching that the creative days in Genesis were each twenty-four literal hours long. Also, their doctrine of hellfire, their blaming God for wickedness, their wars, inquisitions and political meddlings have soured many on the Bible, who have been led to think that the basis for Christendom is the Bible. Many of such, if honest-hearted, can be reached with the message of truth when they see that the Bible, too, disagrees with the teachings and bad practices of Christendom.
    6 Others, however, give up the Bible because they object to its pure laws, though they would hesitate to admit it. They want to gratify their lusts, their greed for money, power, fame, pleasures or immorality. The Bible’s righteous principles condemn such lusts and therefore stand in the way of those indulging in them. Rather than doing what is right, they push the Bible aside. Their selfish desires come first.—2 Tim. 3:1-4; 2 Pet. 3:3.
    7 Some disbelieve the Bible because accepting it would deflate their ego. They desire to be well thought of in the world. Accepting the Bible would mean humbling themselves in submissiveness to Jehovah, his Son and his visible organization. They would not like that, as their adoration and adulation by others, or by themselves, would have to cease. Also, they would have to acknowledge that many of their previous concepts were in error. Their pride will not permit them to do so. It is as John 12:42, 43 records of some prominent ones in Jesus’ day: “They would not confess him, in order not to be expelled from the synagogue; for they loved the glory of men more than even the glory of God.”
    8 Still others find the Bible too energetic for them. They will be required to do God’s will, associate with his visible organization, engage in the preaching activity and study for advancement to spiritual maturity. They feel that this is too much trouble; so they take the course of least resistance and look for an easier religion or none at all.—Luke 13:24.
    9 For these and similar reasons many do not believe the Bible; so when a theory such as evolution comes along they eagerly grasp it to gain some comfort in their rebellion against God and his righteous requirements. But never let it disturb you because many do not believe the Bible. This harmonizes completely with the fact that we live in the last days of this system of things. Jesus foretold this when he stated: “The love of the greater number will cool off.” (Matt. 24:12) Satan the Devil, the god of this system of things, knows his time is nearly up. He is trying desperately to turn all men away from God. So how could we expect the majority of humanity to turn to the Bible? Only a minority will. “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.” (Matt. 7:14) It is not that the road is unavailable, but that most persons are not looking for it. Jesus assured us that those sincerely looking for the right way would find it: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you. For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened.”—Matt. 7:7, 8.
    GOD CREATED
    10 Truth seekers can have confidence that “all Scripture is inspired of God.” (2 Tim. 3:16) They can also be confident in the knowledge that modern science has corroborated the Bible in a most marvelous way. This is especially true of where the greatest attack against the Bible has come, and that is in respect to the first few chapters of Genesis, which chapters scoffers think science has disproved. But remember, science is defined as “a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths,” so that it is necessary to separate facts from fancy.
    11 At one time evolutionists ridiculed the very first words of the Bible, which state: “In the beginning God created.” They claimed, as had the Greek philosophers centuries ago, that matter had always existed and therefore the physical universe had no beginning. But with the advent of the age of atomic energy it became known that some elements of the earth give off radioactivity. If matter had always existed, then this process of radioactive decay would have been completed long ago. But it is still going on. Thus, it is now acknowledged that the universe had a beginning, and its age is estimated in the billions of years, for which the Bible record allows. One group of scientists said: “It is interesting to note that by declaring the universe had a beginning, the Bible anticipated modern science by some thousands of years.”
    12 Another problem for evolutionists was to explain how life started. They dismissed the Genesis account of creation and said that life arose accidentally out of dead matter. They believed much like the philosopher Aristotle, who wrote: “All dry bodies which become damp, and all damp bodies which are dried, engender animal life.” The Roman poet Virgil said seriously that bees were sometimes produced from the decaying internal organs of cattle. A famous physician in the reign of Louis XIV of France wrote: “The smells which arise from the bottom of morasses produce frogs, slugs, leeches, grasses, and other things.” But then Louis Pasteur, the French chemist, performed his famous experiments that should have destroyed the notion that living things spontaneously arose from dead matter. He proved that smaller forms of life did not originate by themselves but came from other bacteria already existing. This showed that living things on earth come only from other living things.
    13 In spite of this evidence, evolutionists who are atheists still believe that a living cell arose by accident. But even the most capable scientists with all their elaborate equipment have not succeeded in creating one tiny living cell! As one “distinguished authority on evolution” admitted: “No living chemist can shape a dinosaur, no living hand can start the dreaming tentacular extensions that characterize the life of the simplest ameboid cell.” (Harper’s Magazine, March 1964) If this cannot be done under the best of experimental conditions, it could hardly have happened by accident. The Bible correctly points to the source of life at Psalm 36:9 when it says: “For with you [Jehovah] is the source of life.”
    14 One might be tempted to think of a living cell as being so simple that it could accidentally arise out of inanimate matter. However, as one scientist said, each cell is “a system so intricate and delicate that its complete functioning has so far escaped our study.” Of its performance, he stated: “Each cell performs . . . activities with a precision that by comparison makes the running of even the finest watch a clumsy affair.” Another described a cell as “a little universe, formed of a host of self-propagating organisms, inconceivably minute and numerous as the stars of heaven.” A magazine declared: “The cell is as complicated as New York City.”
    15 No one possessed of his senses would claim that New York, London, Moscow, Paris, Tokyo or other cities came into existence by themselves. As one physicist said: “No material thing can create itself.” But one living cell contains trillions of tiny units, each automatically performing functions more complicated than those performed in any city. Also, there are trillions of cells in just one adult human body! And we are asked to believe that this all came about by accident! No, nothing organized can ever come about by accident. If a housewife wanted to bake an apple pie, would she wait for some apples to fall off a tree accidentally into her oven, which accidentally happened to have flour, eggs and other ingredients in it, and then hope these would accidentally arrange themselves into a pie, which would accidentally cook itself just the right length of time? That would, of course, be ridiculous. But making a pie is simple compared to making living things, and if simple things cannot happen by accident, surely the infinitely more complex could not either.
    16 Consider, too, parts of the human body such as the eye, so intricate it took scientists centuries to discover some knowledge of how it operates. The camera is a clumsy imitation of the eye, but it took the genius of inventors, the accuracy of mathematicians, the skill of craftsmen years to develop. Did the far more complicated human eye just happen to develop by itself because some blind jellyfish wanted to see? How did it know it wanted to see when it could not possibly have known what seeing was? No, the human eye is a marvel of creation, brought into existence by One who could already see, as Psalm 94:9 says: “The One planting the ear, can he not hear? Or the One forming the eye, can he not look?”
    17 An astronaut comes back from orbiting the earth in a capsule of a few tons and is hailed as a hero. The scientists who devised the mechanism are lauded. What would they think if you declared that the thousands of pieces of metal just chanced to assemble themselves into a capsule and rocket, just happened to be filled with fuel, just happened to ignite when the man was accidentally in the capsule, and then the entire affair just chanced to go into orbit? They would dismiss you as a joker or a mental incompetent. Yet, Jehovah put the earth, weighing an estimated six and a half sextillion tons, into perfect orbit with millions of living things on it, with no reentry problems, no worries over oxygen supplies, no need to squeeze food from a tube or to be concerned about how to get rid of body wastes. And we are asked to believe that this just happened by itself!
    18 It takes thousands of men constantly working to keep the schedules of one railroad or airline from going wrong so that no accidents occur, and they occur anyway. At the same time, suns and planets of incredible size move through space with a speed and precision that stagger the imagination, and that grand system is supposed to have had no designer! Sensible persons appreciate the truth of the words written by Isaiah: “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he [Jehovah] also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.” (Isa. 40:26) David similarly exclaimed: “When I see your heavens, the works of your fingers, the moon and the stars that you [Jehovah] have prepared, what is mortal man?” (Ps. 8:3, 4) So, too, in our day, honest persons recognize that what modern scientific discoveries and inventions emphasize over and over again is the fundamental truth recorded in Genesis, that “in the beginning God created.” Of those who do not believe this, the psalmist states: “The senseless one has said in his heart: ‘There is no Jehovah.’”—Ps. 14:1.
    SPECULATIONS DISPROVED
    19 During the last century evolutionists believed that different forms of life came about by things slowly changing from one kind into another. Some thought giraffes got their long necks by stretching higher and higher for the top leaves of trees, and so their offspring were born with long necks. It was thought that people living near the equator got tanned from the hot sun, and then passed the tan to their children, resulting in dark skin. But then an Austrian, Gregor Mendel, discovered the facts of heredity, which prove such things untrue. He found out about the definite, orderly laws that fixed things from parent to offspring “according to its kind,” just as Genesis had recorded. This made the slow change of one form of life into another impossible, for while it allowed for great variety in color, size and shape, it did not result in new forms of life.
    20 Evolutionists next said that things must have evolved, not by slow changes, but by fast changes in the genes, by mutations. However, of this a scientist recently said: “Whether the mutations are natural or induced by some artificial means such as radiation . . . the evidence today suggests that much more than 99 percent of mutations are undesirable.” Mutations distort, they do not create new kinds.
    21 To help them out of their difficulties evolutionists have searched extensively for fossil remains that would show the connections between family kinds. But no such fossils have been found of creatures whose fins were changing into arms or legs, or whose feet were changing into wings. In short, all the many gaps between family kinds have remained, simply because no connections ever existed! As an article in the London Times (May 19, 1963) on the subject said: “The fossil evidence is really of little help [for evolution] here . . . it is only by a stretch of the imagination that one can visualize a specific transformation of particular specimens . . . into their alleged modern descendants.”
    22 As the lower animals were created suddenly, so was man. He was given a high mental capacity that the animals lacked. This is just what science corroborates, and not a slow ascent from a mud puddle. In the book New Discoveries in Babylonia About Genesis the author states: “It was expected that the more ancient the period, the more primitive would excavators find it to be, until traces of civilization ceased altogether and aboriginal man appeared. Neither in Babylonia nor Egypt, the lands of the oldest known habitations of man, has this been the case. When civilization appears it is already full grown. . . . In the face of these facts, the slow progress of early man is a disproved assumption, and the idea that an infinitely prolonged period elapsed before civilization appeared cannot be maintained.”
    23 But what of those so-called “prehistoric” men one frequently hears about? Some of such fossil remains are not human at all, but are animal. Others are simply varieties of the human family who were living at the same time “modern-type” man was, just as today there are many sizes and shapes in different living peoples. The Neanderthal man was at one time regarded as “prehistoric,” an ancestor of modern man in the evolution scale, but note what an encyclopedia now says: “Neanderthal man cannot be regarded as an ancestor of modern man. Neanderthal man and men of the modern type . . . must be looked upon as descendants of a common ancestor.”
    24 Many of these so-called “prehistoric” men were not a “low” type at all. Of those who are called “Cro-Magnon” a university professor stated: “The Cro-Magnon race . . . are conservatively appraised as on a par with the finest stock today intellectually and physically.” Another scientist reported: “These men represent in many ways the finest type the world has ever seen.” Embarrassingly for those who persist in believing the speculation of evolution, Science Digest (April 1961) said: “Since the Cro-Magnon man . . . the human brain has been decreasing in size.” How accurate the simple Genesis account of man’s creation, his fall into sin and subsequent degeneration!
    25 Evolutionists have also combed the earth looking for a people who speak a primitive language, as they feel this would support their theory. The book The Miracle of Languages says: “They have found none. . . . The language of the bushmen [of Australia] and the Sari [of lower California] are elaborate, and show evidences of decay. . . . All languages appear to have descended from one universal parent language.” Science News Letter (Sept. 3, 1955) confirmed this by saying: “There are no primitive languages. The idea that ‘savages’ speak in a series of grunts and are unable to express many ‘civilized’ concepts, is very wrong. . . . Typically, their grammars are much more complex . . . than any modern language.” How well this, too, fits the Biblical account of man’s having one language that was confused after the Flood, resulting in many languages spreading throughout the world, gradually degenerating.
    26 So-called “prehistoric” men exist only in the imagination of those who choose to ignore the facts, because no evidence derived in the entire history of archaeology has sustained the speculations of evolution. It is just as an article in Harper’s Magazine (July 1963) stated: “We have yet to unearth traces of the intelligent apes that gave rise to humanity.” And this article was written in support of evolution! Think of it, after more than a century of frenzied searching by hordes of evolutionists the record of the rocks shouts out louder than ever that “God created”! Evolutionists cannot “unearth traces of the intelligent apes that gave rise to humanity” simply because they never existed, except, as the London Times intimated, ‘in someone’s imagination.’
    27 In the face of such evidence, honesthearted persons will be convinced, but the skeptic never will be, since he wants to cling to the error that suits his purpose. “That is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thess. 2:11, 12) God-fearing persons are not taken in by satanic speculations that belittle the Bible, God’s Word, and water down its effect; that make God unnecessary as Creator, Sustainer and Provider; and that push aside the reality of man’s fall into sin and his need for redemption. Humble ones say as the psalmist of ancient times did: “How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern.” (Ps. 119:97) These know for a certainty, as the evidence of modern science shows, that “Jehovah is God. It is he that has made us, and not we ourselves.”—Ps. 100:3.
    [Footnotes]
    Recent Theories of the Origin and Nature of the Universe, W. E. Filmer, p. 32. (Booklet issued on 919th Ordinary General Meeting of the Victoria Institute at the Caxton Hall, Westminster, England, December 7, 1953.)
    How Did the World Begin? M. Price, pp. 35, 36.
    The Evidence of God in an Expanding Universe, pp. 122, 124.
    “After Its Kind,” B. C. Nelson, p. 27, quoting Conklin, Heredity and Environment, 5th ed., p. 210.
    Look, January 16, 1962.
    The Evidence of God in an Expanding Universe, p. 71.
    New Zealand Herald, January 17, 1963, p. 16.
    The Encyclopædia Britannica, 1946, Vol. 14, p. 764.
    Creation, Not Evolution, A. Baker, p. 76.
    Creation, Not Evolution, A. Baker, p. 76.
    [Study Questions]
    1, 2. Why do many feel that science has disproved the Bible?
    3. What will the facts show?
    4, 5. Why do some not believe the Bible?
    6-8. What selfish reasons are there for rejecting the Bible?
    9. Why should such disbelief not disturb the Christian?
    10. What confidence can truth seekers have?
    11. How have the first words of the Bible been confirmed?
    12. How has the Genesis account of the creation of life been verified?
    13, 14. Why could not a living cell have arisen by accident?
    15. Show why anything organized demands an organizer.
    16. How do parts of the human body speak of a Creator?
    17, 18. How do modern inventions show the universe had a Creator?
    19, 20. What changing theories have evolutionists advanced?
    21. How does fossil evidence corroborate creation?
    22. What has archaeology discovered?
    23, 24. What are some facts that disprove the notion that there were “prehistoric” men?
    25, 26. What other facts show that “prehistoric” men did not exist?

  413. on 20 Aug 2011 at 9:03 pm 413.godskingdomway said …

    tHE LAST POST COMPLETELY ANNIALATES THE LAW AND FOUNDATION OF EVOLUTION.iN CASE YOU DO NOT READ LET ME RECAP IN A SMALL WAY.tHE THEORY IS BASED ON THE IDEA THAT A LIVING CELL APPEARED OUT OF NON LIVING MATTER THEN EVOLVED INTO EVERY LIVING CREATURE.sCIENTIFIC FACTS PROVE THAT LIVING CELLS COME FROM LIVING MATTER NEVER HAS CAME FROM NON LIVING MATTER NO MATTER HOW MANY MILLIONS SCIENTIST SPEND RECREATING THE SITUATION.aLSO THE FOSSIL RECORD INDICATES THAT THERE HAVE BEEN NO SPECIES WHEREBY THEY FIND A ANIMAL WHOS WING WAS TURNING INTO A ARM OR ANY BODY PART EVOLVING INTO THAT OF A COMPLETELY NEW SPECIES.sCIENCE HAS PROVEN THAT IF YOU ARE A BIRD YOU WILL EVOLVE INTO A DIFFERENT COLOR BIRD A DIFFERENT SIZE BUT NOT A NEW SPECIES LIKE A CAT OR LIKE A MONKEY INTO A MAN.

    TO SEVERIN:YOU WANT TO KNOW IF nOAH HAD KANGAROOS.wELL IF YOU WERE READING YOU COULD HAVE SEEN THE PART ABOUT ANIMALS ONLY EVOLVING ACCORDING TO THIER KIND LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS AND SCIENCE SUPPORTS.tHIS MEANS THAT A KANGAROO DID NOT HAVE TO BE ON THE ARC.hOW YOU MAY ASK?WELL SAY A BIRD WAS ON THE ARC YOU DONT NEED EVERY KIND OF BIRD BECUSE WHEN BIRDS MATE WITH DIFFERENT BIRDS NEW BIRDS OF DIFFERENT APPEARENCES ARRIVE BUT THEY ARE STILL BIRDS.lIKEWISE FOR KANGAROOS A ANCESTOR MAY HAVE BEEN ON THE ARC AND HAD SEX WITH OTHERS IN THE SAME SPECIES EVENTUALLY KANGAROOS CAME ABOUT.HOWEVER KANGAROOS MAY HAVE BEEN ON THE ARC BUT IT WAS NOT SUCH AN IMPORTANT QUESTION THAT I WOULD GO DO RESEARCH ON IT TO FIND OUT IF THEY EXSISTED THEN AND WERE ON BOARD .SIMPLY PUT BIRDS ,LIONS ,AND MOST ANIMALS THAT WERE PUT ON THE ARC WERE ABLE TO CHANGE ONLY ACCORDING TO THIER KIND LIKE TIGERS INTO OTHER TIGERS, BIRDS INTO OTHER BIRD, REPTILES INTO OTHER REPTILES,SO ON.tHIS IS CALLED MICROEVOLUTION.tHIS IS WHY SCIENTISTS HAVE BRAINWASHED THE PUBLIC INTO BELIEVING THAT EVENTUALLY OVER MILLIONS OF YEARS THESE ANIMALS WOULD THEN TURN FROM ONE SPECIES INTO ANOTHER LIKE BIRD INTO CAT,OR APE INTO MAN.dESPITE ALL THE SCIENTIFIC STUDIES THIER MUTATED ANIMALS NEVER LIVE LONG AND NEVER ARE STRONGER THEN THE ORIGINAL.tHIS DRAMATIC CHANGE IS CALLED MACROEVOLUTION THIS IS WHAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.sO HERE ARE THE 100 PERCENT FACTS DO LIVING CELLS COME FROM NON LIVING MATTER THE WAY EVOLUTIO CLAIMS?NO EVOLUTION THEN IS NOT A FACT

  414. on 20 Aug 2011 at 9:13 pm 414.godskingdomway said …

    LOU HAVE A COVERSATION WITH SOMEONE AND LEAVE OUT INSULTS PLEASE.aND YES SOCAIL DARWINISM ALLOWED PEOPLE TO BELIEVE THAT LESS ADVANCED CIVILIZATIONS WERE FULL OF INFERIOR PEOPLE CHECK YOUR INFO AND GOOGLE IT.IF YOU DONT READ MY LONG POST THEN YOU MUST HAVE A SHORT ATTENTION SPAN I READ ALL OF THEM BEFORE AND AGAIN RIGHT BEFORE I GIVE IT TO YOU.

  415. on 20 Aug 2011 at 9:31 pm 415.DPK said …

    413… I know you think you are doing your invisible friend’s “work” by posting endless pages of someone else’s thoughts, but there is one overwhelming, fundamental problem with everything you have cut and pasted…. absolutely none of it is true. That’s the simple fact. I know that neither reasoning with you, insulting you, or pointing out all the silliness of your assertions will change your mind, so I won’t try. You are apparently happy in your psychosis. Now please return the favor and realize that many people do not share your lunatic point of view and have no desire to wade though endless paragraphs of mindless babble to no end. Go away. When Jesus comes, we’ll tell him you gave it a shot, if it will make you feel better.

  416. on 20 Aug 2011 at 9:45 pm 416.A said …

    “sCIENTIFIC FACTS PROVE THAT LIVING CELLS COME FROM LIVING MATTER NEVER HAS CAME FROM NON LIVING MATTER NO MATTER HOW MANY MILLIONS SCIENTIST SPEND RECREATING THE SITUATION.”

    Mr GK I don’t agree with your religious viewpoint, but I will point out I do not agree with the atheist viewpoint you have pointed out either. Since they like to call your a number of disparaging names I thought I would point out their own religious foolishness.

  417. on 20 Aug 2011 at 10:25 pm 417.godskingdomway said …

    it seems like you believe in nothing because you dont believe in god and you dont believe in science because these endless paragraph are the work of aristotle,darwin,endless modern scientists,along with the encyclopedia Britannica and many other relyable sources.The facts are what they are and you can deny it but you only look like a hypocrit for telling me im deluded and brainwashed when you clearly dont care what the facts in yourface say, your haughty.I do apologize if your offended by that comment but your not being unbiased like a judge would in court.A judge would examine all the facts before making a decision especailly one that may involve lives,no matter how much they had to read.So let it be known to everyone here that if they want to know the truth about what the bible says and how true science does not conflict with it then read those posts of mine.I will obey your request that you want me to go away.Have a pleasent life all!I mean that!

  418. on 20 Aug 2011 at 11:02 pm 418.MrQ said …

    GKW said:

    “….the mayan and hindus civilizations that came up with the idea of evolving from animals for religious reasons.”

    Huh? References please. JW literature will not cut it with me. If this is true, so what? Why didn’t the holy bible come up with the idea also?

    Evolution is such an easy concept to understand. Look around, there’s millions of species. How did they get here? Did god create all lifeforms on our planet? Most (99%) of all species which have ever existed on our planet -(Are ready for this?)- have become EXTINCT. Either god is a complete moron who is entirely incapable of creating life OR evolution works. What are the other options?

    BTW, GKW, Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas. Yeah, I know….I have a real mean streak.

  419. on 21 Aug 2011 at 3:16 am 419.nony mouse said …

    GK, you’ve made various statements regarding respect and belief. I wonder if you’re willing to extend the courtesy to others that you feel that you deserve?

    Let’s set some background, in your case, you keep cut and pasting things from the Watchtower. No doubt you’ve been told that these things are correct but, and here’s a key point, part of the reason you may feel that you are being ridiculed is because much of what you have posted is not just wrong, it’s spectacularly wrong. This is not surprising, because the Watchtower is a religious organization, it’s not a source of scientific knowledge – you may have been told otherwise, but that would be incorrect.

    Let’s try a thought experiment. GK, you’ve posted much from the Watchtower organization, included study questions. Are you willing to do for yourself what you expect from others?

    Let’s say someone was to post for you (GK) a list of web pages where you could learn more about current understanding of science. And let’s say those links included questions for you (GK) to answer. All of this would be on science, not religion. Without use of the Watchtower materials or personnel, would you read and study those texts, take those tests and report your answers as to what the scientific position actually is? From there, we can go over your above statements to find out if what you posted from the Watchtower CD actually corresponds with current scientific understanding and consensus?

    Remember, all we’re doing here is giving you the tools to verify for yourself if the statements you made are, or are not, true. This ought to be a slam-dunk for you if you truly have access to the truth.

    Personally, I’d love you to try this. Frankly, I suspect you’ll find many reasons to avoid examining the evidence for yourself.

    Will you do it, GK? Or will you rationalize your way out of independent thought by claiming lack of time, or that the entire scientific account outside of the Watchtower is Satan’s word? Of course, if you argue the later, I’ll just ask you how the Watchtower gets its facts if the facts are contaminated by Satan.

    You’re up, GK. What do you say?

  420. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:11 am 420.godskingdomway said …

    well first read to me what i have posted, recap to me what i have said becuase you guys only comment on the small posts i make and not the ones pasted.These are facts ,i have googled them and done research before the fact .YOU sit here and deny that what i have posted on your page is true shows just how far you are willing to go to save face.If you wanted to prove me wrong dont send me to links bring the information to me as i have done for you.Stop accusing everything I say to be wrong and calling me names and show me the facts that you have that proves why scientists believe in evolution despite the main idea being based on a living cell that was dervived from non living matter.Tell me what is wrong with what I have posted and what is the truth about the areas in which we have discussed.It would be kind of hard to say something is all lies when you admitted to not reading such long posts in the first place.Assure me you will be like a judge who reviews the evidence without bias,then I will read the long paragraphs you send.But no links i did not give you links i brought the info to you.I will only review with you if you give me your word!I never expected you to answer the questions FROM MY POSTS simply read.I am sorry if you felt I was being obnoxious i did not mean that.You ARE LYING TO YOURSELF IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE IDEA OF ORIGINATING FROM ANIMALS DID NOT ORIGINATE WITH BABYLON.THATS WHY THEY HAD TODOM POLES.TO SYMBOLIZE THAT WHATEVER ANIMAL THEY BELIEVED THEY EVOLVED FROM THEY WOULD CREATE A TODOM POLE FOR IT.NOT TO MENTION FACTS CAN NOT BE CONTAMINATED.IT IS EITHER THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS OR IS NOT.IF MAN SAYS EVOLUTION TOOK PLACE BY OCCURING FROM NON LIVING MATTER AND IT DOES SAY THAT)THEN IT IS CLEARLY FALSE.

    MR Q:”Evolution is such an easy concept to understand. Look around, there’s millions of species. How did they get here? Did god create all lifeforms on our planet? Most (99%) of all species which have ever existed on our planet -(Are ready for this?)- have become EXTINCT. Either god is a complete moron who is entirely incapable of creating life OR evolution works. What are the other options?”

    TO START HOW DOES THE IDEA OF 99 PERCENT OF EVERY SPECIES THAT EVER EXSISTED BECOMING EXTINCT POINT TO EVOLUTION AS A FACT.PLEASE VERIFY THAT FOR ME.aND THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THE ENDING OF LIFE IT COULD BE OF PREDATORS,WEATHER,OVERGRAZING,PEOPLE KILLING THEM,BUT NOT BECAUSE OF A DEFECT IN HOW THEY WERE CREATED BY GOD.REMEMBER THE FLOOD ALL SORTS OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED USE YOUR NOODLE.THEN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE STARS ,THE EARTH,ALL EXSISTING ANIMALS,HUMANS ,AS EVIDENCE OF GODS SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE AND ABILITIES TO CREATE.

    i HAVE POSTED SOMETHING CLEAR FACTS FROM THE BOOKS THAT DARWIN MADE HIMSELF PLUS OTHERS SIMPLY READ.iF YOU DO READ THEN YES I WILL RETURN THE SAME FARENESS

  421. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:18 am 421.godskingdomway said …

    i HAVE MANY MORE INFORMATION REMEMBER THESE POST ARE SIMPLY ONE PAGE FROM EITHER OUR BOOKS OR MAGAZINES.iF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT WHERE WE GET INFORMATION FROM IN THE POST THERE WAS MENTIONED NAMES OF SCIENTISTS SIMPLY LOOK UP THIER WORKS.

    How Did Life Begin?
    When you were a child, did you ever startle your parents by asking, “Where do babies come from?” If so, how did they respond? Depending on your age and their personality, your parents might have ignored the question or given you a hurried, embarrassed answer. Or perhaps they told you some fanciful tales that you later found to be false. Of course, if a child is to be properly prepared for adulthood and marriage, he or she eventually needs to learn about the wonders of sexual reproduction.
    Just as many parents feel awkward about discussing where babies come from, some scientists seem reluctant to discuss an even more fundamental question—Where did life come from? Receiving a credible answer to that question can have a profound effect on a person’s outlook on life. So how did life begin?
    What do many scientists claim? Many who believe in evolution would tell you that billions of years ago, life began on the edge of an ancient tidal pool or deep in the ocean. They feel that in some such location, chemicals spontaneously assembled into bubblelike structures, formed complex molecules, and began replicating. They believe that all life on earth originated by accident from one or more of these “simple” original cells.
    Other equally respected scientists who also support evolution disagree. They speculate that the first cells or at least their major components arrived on earth from outer space. Why? Because, despite their best efforts, scientists have been unable to prove that life can spring from nonliving molecules. In 2008, Professor of Biology Alexandre Meinesz highlighted the dilemma. He stated that over the last 50 years, “no empirical evidence supports the hypotheses of the spontaneous appearance of life on Earth from nothing but a molecular soup, and no significant advance in scientific knowledge leads in this direction.”1
    What does the evidence reveal? The answer to the question, Where do babies come from? is well-documented and uncontroversial. Life always comes from preexisting life. However, if we go back far enough in time, is it really possible that this fundamental law was broken? Could life really spontaneously spring from nonliving chemicals? What are the chances that such an event could happen?
    Researchers have learned that for a cell to survive, at least three different types of complex molecules must work together—DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid), RNA (ribonucleic acid), and proteins. Today, few scientists would assert that a complete living cell suddenly formed by chance from a mix of inanimate chemicals. What, though, is the probability that RNA or proteins could form by chance?
    Many scientists feel that life could arise by chance because of an experiment first conducted in 1953. In that year, Stanley L. Miller was able to produce some amino acids, the chemical building blocks of proteins, by discharging electricity into a mixture of gases that was thought to represent the atmosphere of primitive earth. Since then, amino acids have also been found in a meteorite. Do these findings mean that all the basic building blocks of life could easily be produced by chance?
    “Some writers,” says Robert Shapiro, professor emeritus of chemistry at New York University, “have presumed that all life’s building blocks could be formed with ease in Miller-type experiments and were present in meteorites. This is not the case.”2
    Consider the RNA molecule. It is constructed of smaller molecules called nucleotides. A nucleotide is a different molecule from an amino acid and is only slightly more complex. Shapiro says that “no nucleotides of any kind have been reported as products of spark-discharge experiments or in studies of meteorites.”3 He further states that the probability of a self-replicating RNA molecule randomly assembling from a pool of chemical building blocks “is so vanishingly small that its happening even once anywhere in the visible universe would count as a piece of exceptional good luck.”4
    What about protein molecules? They can be made from as few as 50 or as many as several thousand amino acids bound together in a highly specific order. The average functional protein in a “simple” cell contains 200 amino acids. Even in those cells, there are thousands of different types of proteins. The probability that just one protein containing only 100 amino acids could ever randomly form on earth has been calculated to be about one chance in a million billion.
    Researcher Hubert P. Yockey, who supports the teaching of evolution, goes further. He says: “It is impossible that the origin of life was ‘proteins first.’”5 RNA is required to make proteins, yet proteins are involved in the production of RNA. What if, despite the extremely small odds, both proteins and RNA molecules did appear by chance in the same place at the same time? How likely would it be for them to cooperate to form a self-replicating, self-sustaining type of life? “The probability of this happening by chance (given a random mixture of proteins and RNA) seems astronomically low,” says Dr. Carol Cleland, a member of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Astrobiology Institute. “Yet,” she continues, “most researchers seem to assume that if they can make sense of the independent production of proteins and RNA under natural primordial conditions, the coordination will somehow take care of itself.” Regarding the current theories of how these building blocks of life could have arisen by chance, she says: “None of them have provided us with a very satisfying story about how this happened.”6
    Why do these facts matter? Think of the challenge facing researchers who feel that life arose by chance. They have found some amino acids that also appear in living cells. In their laboratories, they have, by means of carefully designed and directed experiments, manufactured other more complex molecules. Ultimately, they hope to build all the parts needed to construct a “simple” cell. Their situation could be likened to that of a scientist who takes naturally occurring elements; transforms them into steel, plastic, silicone, and wire; and constructs a robot. He then programs the robot to be able to build copies of itself. By doing so, what will he prove? At best, that an intelligent entity can create an impressive machine.
    Similarly, if scientists ever did construct a cell, they would accomplish something truly amazing—but would they prove that the cell could be made by accident? If anything, they would prove the very opposite, would they not?
    What do you think? All scientific evidence to date indicates that life can come only from previously existing life. To believe that even a “simple” living cell arose by chance from nonliving chemicals requires a huge leap of faith.
    Given the facts, are you willing to make such a leap? Before answering that question, take a closer look at the way a cell is made. Doing so will help you discern whether the theories some scientists propound about where life came from are sound or are as fanciful as the tales some parents tell about where babies come from.
    [Footnotes]
    The probability of DNA forming by chance will be discussed in section 3, “Where Did the Instructions Come From?”
    Professor Shapiro does not believe that life was created. He believes that life arose by chance in some fashion not yet fully understood. In 2009, scientists at the University of Manchester, England, reported making some nucleotides in their lab. However, Shapiro states that their recipe “definitely does not meet my criteria for a plausible pathway to the RNA world.”
    Dr. Cleland is not a creationist. She believes that life arose by chance in some fashion not yet fully understood.
    [Box on page 7]
    FACTS AND QUESTIONS
    ? Fact: All scientific research indicates that life cannot spring from nonliving matter.
    Question: What is the scientific basis for saying that the first cell sprang from nonliving chemicals?
    ? Fact: Researchers have recreated in the laboratory the environmental conditions that they believe existed early in the earth’s history. In these experiments, a few scientists have manufactured some of the molecules found in living things.
    Question: If the chemicals in the experiment represent the earth’s early environment and the molecules produced represent the building blocks of life, whom or what does the scientist who performed the experiment represent? Does he or she represent blind chance or an intelligent entity?
    ? Fact: Protein and RNA molecules must work together for a cell to survive. Scientists admit that it is highly unlikely that RNA formed by chance. The odds against even one protein forming by chance are astronomical. It is exceedingly improbable that RNA and proteins should form by chance in the same place at the same time and be able to work together.
    Question: What takes greater faith—to believe that the millions of intricately coordinated parts of a cell arose by chance or to believe that the cell is the product of an intelligent mind?
    [Diagram on page 6]
    (For fully formatted text, see publication)
    RNA 1 is required to make proteins 2, yet proteins are involved in the production of RNA. How could either one arise by chance, let alone both? Ribosomes 3 will be discussed in section 2.
    If the creation of complex molecules in the laboratory requires the skill of a scientist, could the far more complex molecules in a cell really arise by chance?
    [Picture on page 4]
    A fertilized human egg cell, shown about 800 times its actual size
    [Picture on page 5]
    Stanley Miller, 1953
    [Picture on page 7]
    If it takes an intelligent entity to create and program a lifeless robot, what would it take to create a living cell, let alone a human?

  422. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:28 am 422.godskingdomway said …

    Dr. Carol Cleland, a member of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s Astrobiology Institute,Robert Shapiro, professor emeritus of chemistry at New York University,AND Professor of Biology Alexandre Meinesz ARE SOURCES OF THIS INFO.READ TO SEE WHAT POINT WE USE THEM TO BRING OUT.I KEEP DOING THE WORK FOR YOU GUYS SO PLEASE READ DONT WASTE MY TIME

  423. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:55 am 423.Lou said …

    408.T-square said …

    “Let us know when the challenges begin. You must be one bored little boy to spend so much time arguing about something you do not believe exists.”

    I love it when some bozo who has never commented here before (at least under this name) begins by making juvenile insults, and then spends his time falsely claiming that somebody else has to “spend so much time arguing about something you do not believe exists.” His comment only serves to demonstrate that he has nothing better to do than waste his time criticizing someone for they way the spend a few minutes of their time.

  424. on 21 Aug 2011 at 5:18 am 424.Lou said …

    421.godskingdomway said …

    “AND Professor of Biology Alexandre Meinesz ARE SOURCES OF THIS INFO.READ TO SEE WHAT POINT WE USE THEM TO BRING OUT.I KEEP DOING THE WORK FOR YOU GUYS SO PLEASE READ DONT WASTE MY TIME”

    godsnutcase, resorting to posting your crackpot ideas in upper case doesn’t help your case except to further emphasize the degree of your delusion and desperation.

    Do you actually think that anyone of intelligence will accept the Watchtower crap as anything other than what it is – propaganda?

    Your delusion has reached grandiose proportions!

  425. on 21 Aug 2011 at 6:12 am 425.Severin said …

    412 GKW
    “…BECUSE WHEN BIRDS MATE WITH DIFFERENT BIRDS NEW BIRDS OF DIFFERENT APPEARENCES ARRIVE BUT THEY ARE STILL BIRDS…lIKEWISE FOR KANGAROOS A ANCESTOR MAY HAVE BEEN ON THE ARC AND HAD SEX WITH OTHERS IN THE SAME SPECIES EVENTUALLY KANGAROOS CAME ABOUT.”

    It is sad to see someone writing thousands of words to say nothing but idiocy.

    “In biology, a species is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring…”

    NOTHING ON EARTH could mate to produce kangaroos, but kangaroos!
    There are 4 species of kangaroos, and they all mate ONLY within their own species.
    Red kangaroo do NOT mate with antilope kangaroo!
    If they mated, they might have ancestors (I am not sure, possibly, like horses and donkeys), but STERILE ancestors.

    Birds do NOT mate with „different birds“, GKW! Only members of SAME SPECIES mate.
    If it happened the way you suggested, there would be a lot of „goat-men“ and „sheep-men“ in this world!

    Sparrows do NOT mate with geese, eagles do NOT mate with pigeons, condors do NOT mate with colibri, penguins with swallows…

    You better find some literature, read and learn, maybe you are not as lost a case as it looks like.
    I doubt it, but who knows.

  426. on 21 Aug 2011 at 1:59 pm 426.MrQ said …

    GKW

    99 PERCENT OF EVERY SPECIES THAT EVER EXSISTED BECOMING EXTINCT POINT TO EVOLUTION AS A FACT.PLEASE VERIFY THAT FOR ME.aND THERE ARE MANY REASONS FOR THE ENDING OF LIFE IT COULD BE OF PREDATORS,WEATHER,OVERGRAZING,PEOPLE KILLING THEM,BUT NOT BECAUSE OF A DEFECT IN HOW THEY WERE CREATED BY GOD.REMEMBER THE FLOOD ALL SORTS OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED USE YOUR NOODLE.

    STOP YELLING.
    Ok, for the 99% figure you can Google it, go to a library, ask a biologist. Use your noodle.

    OK, now you’re saying the ark (Noah’s Ark, I presume) actually floated? After you confirm how many of our planet’s animal species have become extinct, ask yourself: How would you fit all those species of animals on such a small boat? Use your noodle. The ark story is just that – A STORY.

    I have a suggestion: ask a fellow believer on this blog. He has gone by Horatio but now goes by Horatiio. He once believed in Jayzus but has moderated his position recently and is more closely aligned with Antony Flew’s viewpoint; Flew is a deist. Hor once foolishly touted “micro-”evolution and fixed species but now he endorses a christian webpage called biologos.org which can explain evolution for you too. Good luck.

  427. on 21 Aug 2011 at 2:52 pm 427.Observer said …

    #420 It is good to see xtians applying the same cherry-picking they do with theology to science. Alexandre Meinesz is far from a proponent of Biblical genesis. And yet again, xtian ignorance of science leads xtians to point to gaps in scientific knowledge as “proof” that their hocus pocus has some value.

  428. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:10 pm 428.godskingdomway said …

    First off i am not yelling simply putting imphasis on my words i am sorry if you got the wrong impression.Secondly,I never said that the arc floated i would not want to speculate but rather be 100 percent sure of something before i say it.Third,you misinterpret what i meant by mating with other birds.I didnt mean a pigeon has sex with geese i said they mate according to thier kind.Meaning a sectionate pigeon mates with say a rock dove pigeon.

    severin:you dont believe watchtower writings because you feel its propaganda(although you may not be reading them or checking out our sources).I got this from “conservationpedia the trustworthy encyclopedia”It is not extensive research to determine if this is fact but it would be simple to find out with a few more googles.I thought you would be interested in this because you said only kangaroos make kangaroos(that is true)but I wanted you to consider this that i found maybe do some research.

    “Origins
    Creation science and Creationism
    Consistent with their view that the fossil record as a whole does not support the evolutionary position[3][4], creationists state that there is a lack of transitional fossils showing an evolutionary origin of kangaroos. Rebecca Driver writes:

    The Macropod family is alleged to have evolved from either the Phalangeridae (possums) or Burramyidae (pygmy-possums)…
    However, there are no fossils of animals which appear to be intermediate between possums and kangaroos. Wabularoo naughtoni, supposed ancestor of all the macropods, was clearly a kangaroo (it greatly resembles the potoroos which dwell in Victoria’s forests). If modern kangaroos really did come from it, all this shows is the same as we see happening today, namely that kangaroos come from kangaroos, “after their kind.” [5]
    According to the origins theory model used by young earth creation scientists, modern kangaroos are the descendants of the two founding members of the modern kangaroo baramin that were taken aboard Noah’s Ark prior to the Great Flood. It has not yet been determined by baraminologists whether kangaroos form a holobaramin with the wallaby, tree-kangaroo, wallaroo, pademelon and quokka, or if all these species are in fact apobaraminic or polybaraminic.

    After the Flood, these kangaroos, bred from the Ark passengers, migrated to Australia. There is debate whether this migration happened over land[6] with lower sea levels during the post-flood ice age, or before the super-continent of Pangea broke apart.[7].

    Evolution
    The evolutionary view is that kangaroos and other marsupials evolved from a common marsupial ancestor which lived hundreds of millions of years ago.[8]”

    Mr:q you have not been listening not every species of animals need be on the arc.simply because most animals living have been derived from the animals that had been placed on the arc.while the word species is used frequently in our discussion,this term is not in the bible book of genesis.However the word “kind” is,which is much broader in meanining.often,what scientists choose to call the evolution of a new species is simply a matter of variation in a “kind” as the word is used in genesis.Therefore all forms of related lizards are a kind,all forms of related pigeons are a kind,all forms of related reptiles are a kind.If you trace any specific animals family tree to see what they had came from long ago this is evidence of a kind Not evolution which states that overtime one kind turned into a completely new kind like lizard into bird

    So I also wanted to point out that you have not brought any information to me only accusations I have not told you to go read one of our magazines or go to our web page so please if you have something you would like to share please do so here.

    Severin:is it a scientific fact that if a antilope and red kangaroo mate then a donkey or horse would appear?Wow have you not realize that scientists mate animals like puma and i dont know say a cayote and these animals dont live long they dont have any advantages over thier parents they are sickly.This contributes to the point that evolution by mutations and such dont exsist

    So i have some questions for you guys.Answer in debtly : how did the earth come to be?include the stars ,moon,gravity,dust,particles,cells,and other small molecules that make up these materials.

    How come over all the generations of human exsistence we have such a strong desire to worship god?

    why does it make sence to you that something as complex as the universe and the human eye has randomly appeared when in our history nothing else complex ever randomly appears,and everything humans have, such as technology had been created by us not random?

    How will humans behaive if they feel they have no one to answer to?
    Will high school bullies be allowed to terrorize students and no one will say “hey you shouldnt insult people”The bully will say he shouldnt be such a geek I dont agree with people that are geeks therefore I have the right to insult him.would attitudes like this not increase world misery with no hope that mean words and hatred ever end?

    many people have different views on whats right and wrong if the bible was obliterated then would thugs still rob,will rapists still rape,will psychopaths still kill?How will the world function differently without the bible?Dont athiest go to war and rape and steal?what will change them if the bible was gone?

    Have you ever noticed that since the 19 century man was about chilvary,and woman kept thier virginity,and people had such a better idea of day to day good manners then they do today(this excludes wars and such)?As the years go by people accept more and more immorality who will tell people that men who like little children are wrong in a hundred years.wont the man say why is it wrong for me to love this little boy or girl?all it will take is a few years of men fighting for the right to “love” children then people will say whats so wrong with that?

  429. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:13 pm 429.godskingdomway said …

    If you admit there are gaps in these Theories, then you also say you feel there are gaps in the bible .then what is the difference from putting faith in the bible and faith in unproven theories.The answer is nothing.If you believe something that has not been proven a fact ,like the earth is round is a fact, then you ARE putting faith in it

  430. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:34 pm 430.DPK said …

    Sorry, this conversation lost all credibility to me when you asserted that the story of Noah’s Ark actually occurred.
    What utter nonsense. How can you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously when you make an assertion like that.
    As for evolution, evolution is a fact. The only difference between what you call micro and macro evolution is time. It is difficult for we humans to really comprehend the enormity of geological, no less, cosmic time.
    Here is the difference between what you describe as faith in science and faith in religion. One is supported and reasonable, the other is simply not. I do not really “understand” what gravity is… I know how it works, and based on scientific theories describing gravity I can make very accurate predictions about how things behave under the force of gravity. I can test these. I can predict, for example, if I stand on a ladder and hold a bowling ball over your head, when I let go, it will drop and crack your skull. Does this require “faith”? I suppose… I can’t explain to you “exactly” what the force is that causes the ball to drop, but I can demonstrate it is real and predictable.
    Now, you have faith in god’s power and in prayer. But will you stand under the bowling ball and let me drop it on you while you pray for god to suspend it in mid air? If you had faith you would. But your faith is unfounded, because I can guarantee you that there are only 2 possible scenarios to play out from this exercise and the ball being suspended in mid-air by the grace of god is not one of them.
    You will either jump out of the way, or receive a painful lesson is the difference between a reasonable faith and an unfounded one.

  431. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:39 pm 431.MrQ said …

    GKW

    If you trace any specific animals family tree to see what they had came from long ago this is evidence of a kind Not evolution which states that overtime one kind turned into a completely new kind like lizard into bird

    Ok, let me ask you if these were some of the “kind” on the ark: Ramapithecus, Australopithecus anamensis, Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus robustus, Homo habilis, Ardipithecus ramidus or were theses animals already extinct when the ark floated? GKW, it’s just a story….Completely stupid to even think of this as anything other than allegory.

    BTW, what is the age of the planet Earth? In your opinion.
    Horatiio, a believer in some god, like yourself, says it’s 4.5 billion years old.

  432. on 21 Aug 2011 at 4:55 pm 432.godskingdomway said …

    Here is some information from newgeology.us so you can see that its not just my watchtower that says evolution is untrue i will also give it to you from encyclopeddias if i have to.Also- oberver-i did not say alexandre was pro creation i was simply referencing that some of her work was in my posts by the watchtower.Read before you make a comment

    Debunking Evolution:
    problems, errors, and lies exposed,
    in plain language for non-scientists

    “Evolution” mixes two things together, one real, one imaginary. Variation (microevolution) is the real part. The types of bird beaks, the colors of moths, leg sizes, etc. are variation. Each type and length of beak a finch can have is already in the gene pool and adaptive mechanisms of finches. Creationists have always agreed that there is variation within species. What evolutionists do not want you to know is that there are strict limits to variation that are never crossed, something every breeder of animals or plants is aware of. Whenever variation is pushed to extremes by selective breeding (to get the most milk from cows, sugar from beets, bristles on fruit flies, or any other characteristic), the line becomes sterile and dies out. And as one characteristic increases, others diminish. But evolutionists want you to believe that changes continue, merging gradually into new kinds of creatures. This is where the imaginary part of the theory of evolution comes in. It says that new information is added to the gene pool by mutation and natural selection to create frogs from fish, reptiles from frogs, and mammals from reptiles, to name a few.

    Do these big changes (macroevolution) really happen? Evolutionists tell us we cannot see evolution taking place because it happens too slowly. A human generation takes about 20 years from birth to parenthood. They say it took tens of thousands of generations to form man from a common ancestor with the ape, from populations of only hundreds or thousands. We do not have these problems with bacteria. A new generation of bacteria grows in as short as 12 minutes or up to 24 hours or more, depending on the type of bacteria and the environment, but typically 20 minutes to a few hours. There are more bacteria in the world than there are grains of sand on all of the beaches of the world (and many grains of sand are covered with bacteria). They exist in just about any environment: hot, cold, dry, wet, high pressure, low pressure, small groups, large colonies, isolated, much food, little food, much oxygen, no oxygen, in toxic chemicals, etc. There is much variation in bacteria. There are many mutations (in fact, evolutionists say that smaller organisms have a faster mutation rate than larger ones16). But they never turn into anything new. They always remain bacteria. Fruit flies are much more complex than already complex single-cell bacteria. Scientists like to study them because a generation (from egg to adult) takes only 9 days. In the lab, fruit flies are studied under every conceivable condition. There is much variation in fruit flies. There are many mutations. But they never turn into anything new. They always remain fruit flies. Many years of study of countless generations of bacteria and fruit flies all over the world shows that evolution is not happening today.

    Mutation – natural selection
    Here is how the imaginary part is supposed to happen: On rare occasions a mutation in DNA improves a creature’s ability to survive, so it is more likely to reproduce (natural selection). That is evolution’s only tool for making new creatures. It might even work if it took just one gene to make and control one part. But parts of living creatures are constructed of intricate components with connections that all need to be in place for the thing to work, controlled by many genes that have to act in the proper sequence. Natural selection would not choose parts that did not have all their components existing, in place, connected, and regulated because the parts would not work. Thus all the right mutations (and none of the destructive ones) must happen at the same time by pure chance. That is physically impossible. To illustrate just how hopeless it is, imagine this: on the ground are all the materials needed to build a house (nails, boards, shingles, windows, etc.). We tie a hammer to the wagging tail of a dog and let him wander about the work site for as long as you please, even millions of years. The swinging hammer on the dog is as likely to build a house as mutation-natural selection is to make a single new working part in an animal, let alone a new creature.

    There is more if you want it but i kept this short for the sake of your attention span

  433. on 21 Aug 2011 at 5:13 pm 433.godskingdomway said …

    “As for evolution, evolution is a fact. The only difference between what you call micro and macro evolution is time. It is difficult for we humans to really comprehend the enormity of geological, no less, cosmic time.’

    So you cant comprehend evolution but it is not the same for me to say you cant comprehend gods power to perform miracles like the arc.How fair and reasonable is that ,but I dont expect you to be fair nor reasonable.Second I detest the morbid analogy.I would run from your murderous behind (lol)and not put jehovah my god to the test.I understand i am human capable of death and in this world led by satan (which means slanderer and devil which means opposer)sinfull people are incline to kill me I only await paradise In the mean time I dont expect God to rescue me whenever I am in trouble.He tells me How to avoid trouble and promises for those who simply have been victims a ressurection and those who still live a shot at paradise.

    answer this question if not you admit you blindly follow theories:How did evolution originate?What is its basis?

  434. on 21 Aug 2011 at 6:12 pm 434.godskingdomway said …

    http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html go here look at the disgramms, look at the charts,look at all the evidence of evolution the writer has sources at the end of every paragraph

  435. on 21 Aug 2011 at 6:15 pm 435.godskingdomway said …

    I understand that it is alot of reading but simply take it a little at a time if you desire.and scroll down just view the diagramms and sources only so you could get an idea of how extensive the work that disproves evolution is.

  436. on 21 Aug 2011 at 7:44 pm 436.Lou said …

    434.godskingdomway said …

    “desire.and scroll down just view the diagramms and sources only so you could get an idea of how extensive the work that disproves evolution is.”

    You appear to be confused about evolution. Evolution is fact, regardless of how any number of scientists explain it or how it originated. Evolution is as much a fact as is gravity. Do you want to debunk gravity, too? Or is gravity only a theory? How did gravity originate? What is its basis?

    Why is it you accept the scientific evidence for debunking evolution, but you reject the scientific evidence that debunks the ark (not arc) fairytale? That’s the problem with creationism. Creationists deny science except when they try to use it to support their own crackpot ideas.

    Do you also accept Shock Dynamics?

  437. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:09 pm 437.godskingdomway said …

    oh yeah mr q:the only reason you ask about those hominids you mention is because they are based on evolution.However simply because apes that everyone already knows to have physical features resembling human anatomy exsisted long ago does not prove that humans evolved from them it simply proves that these fossils are that of a monkey and scientist can only make educated gueses on how they may have appeared alive.However a guess is still a guess and not a fact.Bias work like the belief that hominds prove the exsitence of evolution is faulty when the evolution theory is still in the study process.Its not educated to try and base real science on something that has not been proven.To elaborate because I want you to fully understand here is a post from the internet about the idea of ape men and how they have manipulated the facts to the public.OH AND THIS IS NOT A SUBJECT YOU WANT TO GET IN WITH ME AS I AM STUDYING ANTHROPOLOGY.

    Themes > Science > Life Sciences > Physical Anthropology > Evolution Should not be Taught as Fact > Ape Men or Hominids?

    It would be reasonable to say that most people nowadays have embraced evolution (probably without giving it a great deal of thought) and believe that there were strange creatures in prehistoric times not quite men and not wholly animal. We are told in the name of science that these ape-men really did exist and that we have evolved from them. Space does not permit a full analysis of every alleged find, hence we will discuss the more popular propositions. America became proud and triumphant when laying its claim to possessing the one hundred percent all-American ape-man – Nebraska Man.

    Nebraska Man
    Nebraska man lasted for a total of five years in 1927. Further discovery eventually proved that the unusual tooth on which Nebraska man was founded (there were less than a cupful of bone fragments used to construct the complete Nebraska Man) was not actually from an ape-man but from a peckery, a type of wild pig. Professor Henry Osbourne’s ape- man was constructed from the tooth of a pig. Nebraska Man is still used in some modern text- books, despite the fact that Osbourne himself admitted that his findings were really that of a pig.

    Neanderthal Man

    Secondly – the Neanderthal Man. This exhibit was supposed to be slightly more sophisticated than the chimpanzee, walking stooped forward, and walking with his knees bent in a hairy, animalistic fashion. The mistake regarding his brain capacity was corrected by the great Marcellin Boule, one of the greatest paleantologists of his day. Boule proved that Neanderthal Man had a bigger brain than modern man. Evidence then emerged that Neanderthal Man believed in the supernatural and there was substantial evidence that Neanderthal man had intermarried with modern type man. To cap it all, in 1929 Professor Boule proved that Neanderthal man walked upright. Neanderthal Man is now regarded as our brother, just another group of homo-sapiens

    Piltdown Man

    Thirdly – The Piltdown Man of England. For forty years, Piltdown Man fooled the world. The pictures on the right show an artist’s impression of Piltdown Man.

    The principle characters in this fraudulence were Charles Dawson (who found the first part of the skull), Sir Arthur Smith Woodward of the British Museum and a student priest – Father Teilhard de Chardin. In December, 1912, Dawson and Woodward told a distinguished audience that over a period of four years they had found strange fossils at Piltdown, namely the upper part of a skull which was human and nearby a broken lower jaw bone.

    An artist’s impression of Piltdown man

    The jaw-bone appeared quite ape-like except that the teeth had worn down similar to the way in which human teeth wear down. An important canine tooth was missing from the jaw-bone. Of all the scientists in the audience, only one of them doubted whether the skull belonged to the jawbone.
    Thus, Piltdown Man had arrived. If the missing canine tooth were to be found and if it was worn like the molars in the jaw-bone, the case to support the ape man would be strengthened. The tooth was found eight months later, on the 29th August 1913. Teilhard returned from France and Dawson, Woodward and Teilhard went to the Piltdown pit to sieve the gravel. After a time, Teilhard called out that he had found the missing tooth. The tooth fitted the jaw exactly and Piltdown Man had made history. He was given the age of five hundred thousand years.

    Eventually, sceptics insisted that the Piltdown Man’s age be re-examined. He survived the first test whilst his age dropped from five hundred thousand years to fifty thousand years. Critics then demanded further tests and then came the disgrace. The skull belonged to modern man; the jaw-bone was from an ape that had recently died.

    Furthermore, it became obvious under meticulous examination that the teeth had been filed to make them look human and the marks of the abrasive were visible. The jaw bone and teeth had been stained by chemicals to make them look like ape specimens. Why was the crudeness of this fake not detected earlier? Who was responsible? Well, opinions certainly differ. Nobody blames Woodward. Dawson lacked the skill and knowledge to perpetrate such a fantastic hoax. Few blame Dawson since he didn’t have the special skills.

    Speculation might therefore point towards de Chardin, who had the opportunity and the knowledge of anatomy. Australian anatomist Graffton Elliot Smith had some involvement with the Piltdown affair. It is worth noting at this juncture that both these men were later connected with the Peking Man of China.

  438. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:11 pm 438.godskingdomway said …

    We will now discuss the African Ape-Man, the Java Man and the China Man, better known as Peking Man.

    Australapithecines – otherwise known as African ape-man. These are pictured as large- jawed, small brained and standing about four feet tall and walking in approximately human fashion; not quite human but a pre human phase of hominid evolution. It sounds terrific, until you see how little fossil evidence there is and how the experts contradict one another, sometimes allocating bones the way they want them. Douglas Dewar said :- “The supposition that African man walked upright is based on the supposition that some isolated bone found among a heap of bones in a cave belonged to the same species”. After Douglas Dewar had written this, further evidence from more complete bones indicates that African Man did not walk upright.

    In 1954, Sir Solly Zuckerman began his study. He made a meticulous analysis of the bone fragments and gave his verdict on the basis of brain capacity, jaws, teeth and the point of balance of skull on spine. Zuckerman’s verdict was that these animal bones gave no evidence of something evolving into a human. In scientific stature, Zuckerman would overshadow the others and he was without bias. Zuckerman has had an outstanding career. He was appointed as chief scientific advisor to her majesty’s government and then in 1971 he was elevated to the peerage on his merits as Lord Zuckerman. His verdict should have carried great weight. However, apparently it wasn’t what they wanted to hear, and his findings were quietly ignored. A computerised analysis of the Australapithecines carried out in the seventies has shown that Zuckermann’s evidence was not completely futile.

    We now come to Doctor Louis Leakey, the renowned palaeontologist who worked in Africa for a number of years, financed by the National Geographic Magazine. In 1950 Leakey’s wife found 400 fragments of a skull, although there are grounds for thinking that parts of two skulls were involved. However, the four hundred pieces were put together into a skull, with the exclusion of the jaw bone. A model jaw bone based on a jaw bone that Doctor Leakey’s son had found elsewhere was moulded and the completed skull was called Zinjanthropus, or Zinj. The Readers Digest published a long story about Zinj. The National Geographic featured the story and Zinj was declared as the oldest real human, aged one million seven hundred and fifty thousand years old. As you would expect, many different artist’s impressions have come from just this one skull.

  439. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:11 pm 439.godskingdomway said …

    The excitement was intense, until it was found to be a complete mistake. Everyone involved, including Leakey’s son, agreed that Zinj was not human after all. Zinj was just another Australapithicens – another brute. The Leakeys’ soon found another candidate called homo-habilis to continue the propaganda. Homo-habilis was a clever man who was able to use tools. Thus we are taught that Homo-habilis outlived his other ape brothers and sisters because the continuous use of tools allowed his brain capacity to increase, making him more and more intelligent… Muscles have been observed to increase through exercise – brain cells have not!
    There were two pieces of leg bone found near Zinj but they were allocated to homo-habilis. Many books admit that there is dispute about what habilis really is. Doctor Leakey’s view was that habilis was a species of man now extinct. However, many other evolutionists say that Leakey was wrong and that habilis was just an Australapithecines – another brute.

    Java Man
    In 1891, Doctor Eugene Dubois gave up his career and went to Java to search for the missing link between man and ape. Later, Dubois presented to the world his Pithecanthropus – better known as Java Man. Java Man became a human hero. Popular histories published detailed portraits of Java Man. G.K. Chesterton commented:- “no uninformed person looking at his carefully lined face would imagine that this was a portrait of a thigh bone, of a few teeth and a fragment of the cranium”.

    How did it happen? In 1895, when Dubois returned to Europe, he showed to an international congress of zoologists what he had found in a river-bed in Java. Dubois presented a skull-cap and a tooth, both appearing to belong to an ape. He also showed them a thigh-bone that he had found a year later about fifty feet distant. The thigh-bone appeared to be human. Dubois insisted that they belonged together. Thus, the ape skull-cap stood on the human thigh bone and the missing link was no more. (See below).The Java Man was born…

    Doctor Dubois had not been entirely honest in his findings however. The most important part of the story was excluded. Dubois did not disclose that he had also found two human skulls in the exact same stratum as the skull cap. If Dubois had disclosed this important information it would have spoiled his successful case because these were human skulls – Wadjak skulls, which showed that real humans did live in Java at the same time as the supposed ape man. This would have meant that there was no need to link the thigh bone with the skull cap found fifty feet distant, and that would have meant that evidence for the alleged ape-man would have been non-existent. For more than thirty years, Dubois kept the human skull secret and hidden. This was totally inexcusable.

    The great biologist Thomson stated later:- “The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity”.

    In 1921 a repentant Dubois revealed the human skulls. By then it was too late and Java Man was immovably established, as any modern textbook will testify.

    The leading authority on fossils – Marcellin Boule, rejected Java Man. Boule said it was a gibbon or an ape. More significantly, Dr. Dubois himself renounced his own Java Man in 1938. He declared that after long study he was of the opinion that we are concerned with a gigantic gibbon. But evolutionists still cling to their Java Man. He is now referred to as homo-erectus in the science of evolution

  440. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:16 pm 440.godskingdomway said …

    lou: aw look who ignores the facts now.no matter how many times you close your eyes and say evolution is true! evolution is true! does NOT make it so.Stop making ignorant comments and be a man and back up what you believe.If evolution was true then tell me how is it possible.COME ON TELL ME HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TELL ME THE FACTS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE EITHER PUT OUT OR SHUTUP(THIS IS IMPHASIS NOT YELLING)HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

  441. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:18 pm 441.godskingdomway said …

    iM NOT LAUGHING AT YOU BUT AT THE SITUATION I AM SORRY IF YOU TAKE OFFENSE

  442. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:33 pm 442.DPK said …

    It’s like talking to a xerox machine that somehow has a “stupid” button, and it got stuck.
    Dear god’s nutcase… please go pedal your bullshit to someone who is buying it. And, whatever university is offering you a degree in anthropology, go ask for your money back.

  443. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:38 pm 443.godskingdomway said …

    The great biologist Thomson stated later:- “The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity”.

    THOSE SCIENTISTS YOU GUYS BELIEVE WERE BIAS LIKE YOU GUYS. THEY WANTED GLORY SO BAD THAT THEY FOUND THIGH BONES AND POSED IT AS A FACE,THEY WOULD CARVE TEETH OF ANIMALS AND PUT IT IN JAW BONES,THEY FOUND FOSSILS THEY SAID WERE THAT OF APE MEN BUT WERE FOUND 50 FT FROM HUMAN BONES.tHEY COVERED UP ALOT OF THINGS BUT i GUESS YOU GUYS DONT BELIEVE SCIENTISTS LIE,CHEAT ,AND FALSIFY.tHEY ALL ARE ABOVE THAT ARENT THEY.thier are no people willing to believe thier lies without checking it out first.Wait the same way people believe the lies of false religion is the same way they believ the lies of scientists.OR is this crazy talk.Well we see the facts stay in fairy spiritism sin world if you want.However I am fully firm in the truth because jehovahs word is truth and his bible is his word.So unless you have some proof to show then this conversations over you have not brought any information forward and I have proven you to be greatly misled hope to see you wise up into jehovahs eyes and heart.

  444. on 21 Aug 2011 at 8:57 pm 444.godskingdomway said …

    ROMANS12:14-KEEP BLESSING THOSE WHO PERSECUTE,BE BLESSING AND DO NOT BE CURSING.

    WHICH PERSONS VIEWS CONTRIBUTE TO A PEACFUL HAPPY WORLD.tHAT OF THE ONES WHO CALL PEOPLE STUPID AND MAKE ANALOGIES OF KILLING OTHERS OR THAT OF THE ONES TAUGHT THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE

  445. on 21 Aug 2011 at 10:21 pm 445.Lou said …

    439.godskingdomway said …

    “Stop making ignorant comments and be a man and back up what you believe.If evolution was true then tell me how is it possible.COME ON TELL ME HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TELL ME THE FACTS YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE EITHER PUT OUT OR SHUTUP(THIS IS IMPHASIS NOT YELLING)HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

    440.godskingdomway said …

    iM NOT LAUGHING AT YOU BUT AT THE SITUATION I AM SORRY IF YOU TAKE OFFENSE”

    godsnutcase, you obviously have an emotional and/or psychological disorder. Not to mention an obvious lack of intellect and/or education.

  446. on 21 Aug 2011 at 10:22 pm 446.Lou said …

    442.godskingdomway said …

    “Wait the same way people believe the lies of false religion is the same way they believ the lies of scientists.OR is this crazy talk.Well we see the facts stay in fairy spiritism sin world if you want.”

    Is this crazy talk? The answer is obvious.

  447. on 21 Aug 2011 at 11:09 pm 447.MrQ said …

    GKW, #442

    The great biologist Thomson stated later:- “The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity”.

    Are you talking about the Thomson who, in 1897, estimated that the Earth was 20–40 million years old? Not a very good reference, I’d say.

    Congrats on your course of study, I find evolution and anthropology fascinating. Does your course cover Molecular Biology? Pay careful attention and you’ll see how ALL of the latest scientific research nicely PROVES that Darwin was correct. It is truly amazing how he was able to come up with his theory in 1859, long before numerous other scientific branches were able to back him up.

    I ask that you PLEASE post some of the thoughts from your own head rather than inundating the site with cut & paste and bible scripture quotes.

  448. on 21 Aug 2011 at 11:13 pm 448.godskingdomway said …

    LOU :YOUR SO SLOW AND MUST NEED HELP ,BECAUSE YOU HAVE A HARD TIME READING .YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WRITING ANYTHING MORE THEN THREE PARAGRAPHS AND YOU MUST NOT HAVE A HIGH VOCABULARY THAT YOU RESULT TO INSULTS SO FAST.yOU MUST HAVE A ANGER MANAGEMENT PROBLEM CHILL OUT AND GET HELP BEFORE YOUR WIFE AND KIDS GET YOU MAD AND YOU KILL THEM WITH A ROCK AGAINST THIER HEAD.lIKE CHRIS BENOIT OF THE WWE.MAYBE PERHAPS YOU TAKE STEROIDS THATS WHY YOU HAVE FITS SO EASILY.MORE LIKELY NO WOMAN HAS MARRIED YOU WITH THAT TEMPER.YES, NO ONE WITH SUCH A BAD TEMPER SHOULD TEACH LIFE BELIEFS,OR BE A TEACHER,OR PRESIDENT,OR A PARENT.tHEY MIGHT KILL EVERYONE AROUND THEM WHO PROVES THEM WRONG(like i proved you wrong so wrong).BOY AM i SURE GLAD YOU DONT KNOW WHERE I LIVE YOU MIGHT WANT TO SAVE MY CHILD FROM MY EVIL GOD FEARING BEHIND BY KILLING ME IN FRONT OF HIM.

    dOES THIS FEEL GOOD WHEN I SAy it to you.now you understand what words do

  449. on 21 Aug 2011 at 11:25 pm 449.godskingdomway said …

    Mr Q: read my posts then you will know exactly who i am talking about.If you want me to post something from my head guess what, i have.I know by heart everything i have given you.Dont be mad because you have nothing to say for yourselves besides the insults that serves as proof of your limited vocabulary and low iq.what makes you think jehovahs witnesses do not believe the earth is millions of years old.meditate on the very first scripture of genesis.Then you will see that the earths age is far greater then that of what false religion believes.However a specific age is not in the scriptures obviously.The earth is however very old.Obviously by your last post to me you have not read my long posts.If theres one thing a woman hates it is not being listened to.Yes i really love anthropology it is my life long dream and i use to study about it even in the 9 th grade on my own time.It is what I want to do for life as well as serve jehovah.Maybe one day me and you might share both those things in common

  450. on 22 Aug 2011 at 12:01 am 450.godskingdomway said …

    Also mr Q i was wondering do you only look for information from scientists that are pro evolution.Have you ever took the time to see what facts other scientists have that are against it.If you have not that would make you bias.However my presence on this website shows that I am infact not narrow minded.I am like the BoreanS in the bible who did not put faith in every word but checked every day to see if what they were taught is true.I am like jehovah told me to be in his word the bible to test every inspired word and to use your power of reason.So therefore I approach things not ready to turn away from new information but to vindicatE what I already know to be truth.Why are you people so firm against God?I say that with all sincerity!As I smell the air of the rain I feel TRANQUIL even though living in the big city I can look out and see that such an complex world had to be created like all things that are complex.I see that someone way smarter and way powerfull than us had to have created it.So when you see the fog and you see the rain come down the rainbows(that jehovah gave to us as a sign he would never again flood the earth like that ,after noah sacraficed a animal to him for saving him and his family)you feel nothing towards god.

    Mr q I dervive pleasure from knowing someone will correct the horrible things that plague the earth,I feel happy that anyone who is alone has the knowledge that jehovah is with them loving them if no one else will.I feel pleasure that Jehovah is understanding the way we think and why we do what we do and yet so ready to forgive.You may not see this but I ask you if you have the choice to believe what I do why choose evolution.Lets please face that scienctists dont agree,The facts are not pro evolution for the sake of this speech I will say the information is inconclusive.So why choose this?When If you believe in god that he will give you paradise then your happiness will revolve not around a woman who comes and go ,or money which comes and goes, or appearences, but it would revolve around god loving you and you would believe that he would never stop.Why stop yourself from believing this?If it is from religious hypocracy, then I have told you what I believe never will a follower of jehovah go to war,kill another believer,do what the bible tells them not to do.Yes we are imperfect but jehovah will seperate the goats from the domestic sheep.yOU CANT COME TO UNDERSTAND HOW I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO SAY I WANT TO BE A SHEEP.I DONT KNOW WHATS LEFT TO SAY TO YOU GUYS BECAUSE FRANKLY I ONLY CAN SAY THAT DEATH,NOR PAIN,NOR OUTCRY WILL BE NO MORE THE FORMER THINGS OF THE PAST WILL PASS AWAY.YOUR CHILDREN CAN PLAY WITH ONCE VIOLENT ANIMALS.IT SOUNDS FAIRY TALE BUT ITS A LARGE STEP UP FROM COMING FROM MONKEYS NO ONE CREATED THE EARTH OR STARS OR ANYTHING ELSE.YOU SEE THE LIE IS LIKE A TREE THAT HAS MANY BRANCHES IF YOU ARE TO BELIVE IN ONE BRANCH, EVOLUTION ,THEN YOU ARE LEFT TO WONDER WHAT OF THE UNIVERSe THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF BELIEVING MANY MANY DIFFERENT THEORIES ABOUT EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE.SO MANY BRANCHES.THEY CAN NOT ALL BE TRUE.HOWEVR THE BIBLE EXSISTED FOR YEARS STILL MAN HAS NOT GOTTEN RID OF IT BECAUSE THEY FEEL THERE IS TRUTH TO IT.IF THEY READ IT THEY WOULD SEE WHAT FALSE TEACHINGS THEY GOT TRICKED INTO.IN PARADISE NEVER WILL A MAN BUILD A HOUSE AND ANOTHER MAN LIVE OR PLANT FOOD AND ANOTHER MAN EAT.A MAN WILL BUILD HIS OWN HOUSE AND PLANT HIS OWN FOOD.HUHHHHH!night is starting to set in and what so little of nature i see i admire,marvel,do you have the pleasure of this to.OR DO YOU LET ENDLESS NIGHTS FLY BY AND CANNOT SEE THE SHEER BEAUTY AND ROMANCE OF IT ALL.PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT BACK AND SAY ANYTHING LIKE “YOUR DELUDED,YOU HAVE FUN WITH YOU FAIRY TALES”PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!

  451. on 22 Aug 2011 at 12:40 am 451.A said …

    Noah’s Ark is much more probable than macroevolution – hands down.

    I mean come on. All life formed from primordial soup monster that formed by chance?

  452. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:16 am 452.MrQ said …

    GKW, #448

    Obviously by your last post to me you have not read my long posts.

    I do not read, as a general rule, the watchtower JW literature. I find that anything can be made to sound convincingly real if one cherry picks the information.

    you have nothing to say for yourselves besides the insults that serves as proof of your limited vocabulary and low iq

    I yam what I yam. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. So very sorry that I cannot live up to your standards.
    Keep it to what you can assemble in your adled brain. Cut the crappy C&P routine and we may get somewhere.

    @A, #450

    Noah’s Ark is much more probable than macroevolution – hands down.

    Let’s examine this – shall we?
    Can we agree that early lifeforms were simple one celled organisms? I doubt you’ll want to go down that road, but what the hell….. Maybe you’re NOT just a one hit wonder.

  453. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:05 pm 453.Lou said …

    432.godskingdomway said …

    “answer this question if not you admit you blindly follow theories:How did evolution originate?”

    Don’t confuse the process of evolution with theories of evolution, which you obviously do. I don’t “blindly follow theories” any more than I blindly follow some crackpot religion such as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    I answer your question with the understanding that you are not going to accept any answer with which I respond. To be fair, I will not accept any answer that includes “god” as part of your or anyone else’s explanation. But herein lies the difference between my answer that evolution is natural and your answer that “god did it” – there’s no evidence for god, but there is evidence for nature. It’s indisputable that nature and its processes exist. They repeatedly and predictably occur without any evidence whatsoever of a god. The requirement for a god to create the universe is not one that arises from the study of the universe. It arises from the imagination of man and some psychological or emotional requirement for a god that some people have. God did not create man, man created god. There is absolutely no evidence that god created man, but there’s example after example that man creates gods, you’re crackpot religion being a perfect example.

    Nobody knows the exact, specific process for the origin of life (not evolution as you asked). But life arose as result of the natural process of evolution. Evolution is part of the natural universe. Biological evolution occurs in nature just as stars evolve from matter and create nuclear fusion, or that matter forms planets that then orbit stars because of gravity, or that chemical reactions occur to create all the various compounds that exist in nature. These things happen because it is natural for them to happen. The theories for how they happen are irrelevant to their existence.

    “What is its basis?”

    Specify “basis.”

  454. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:15 pm 454.godskingdomway said …

    No matter how many celled organisms you believe early life form to be,this does not explain how the cell came about to develop into a living creature from non living matter.The information from my lasts post were from online encyclopeddia and a geology website.You dont read because you are scared.You want me to stop cut and pasting because you want me to speculate perhaps you may gain the upper hand in the conversation.Listen facts are what they are even if you dont want to read them.If you do not read the literature of people you do not believe have the truth then how do you really know what the bible says to have problems with it.I will post you what the bible teaches of Noahs arc and how it is truely vastly capable of occuring more so then the chance a living cell coming from nonliving matter by chance.Remember it took 40 years before the flood, noah had time to accomplish everything.

  455. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:18 pm 455.Lou said …

    452.Lou said …

    Correction, “your,” not “you’re” crackpot religion being a perfect example.

  456. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:19 pm 456.godskingdomway said …

    Noah and the Flood—Fact, Not Fiction
    DO YOU long for a better world—a world where people live at peace with one another? a world in which there is no war, no crime, no oppression? If so, you can find encouragement in a historical account that you may know well. It is the account of Noah, a truly good man who built an ark that saved him and his family through a global flood in which the wicked perished.
    Few stories are more widely known. The record of what happened to Noah is found in the Bible book of Genesis, chapters 6 through 9, and it is retold in the Koran and in the legends of countless peoples throughout the earth. Did the Flood really happen, or is it merely an allegorical tale to encourage people to do what is right? Theologians and scientists have debated this question for centuries. Yet, the Bible, the Word of God, allows no room for doubt—the account is fact, not fiction. Consider:
    The Genesis account tells us the precise year, month, and day when the Deluge began, when and where the ark came to rest, and when the earth dried off. Details about the ark are also precise—the layout, the measurements, and the material used to build it.This proved that it was capable of the task at hand. Fables, by contrast, are usually vague in their descriptions.
    Two genealogical accounts in the Bible testify that Noah was a real person. (1 Chronicles 1:4; Luke 3:36) Both Ezra and Luke, who compiled these genealogies, were careful researchers. Luke traced Jesus Christ’s lineage to Noah.
    References to Noah or the Flood were made by the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel and by the Christian apostles Paul and Peter.—Isaiah 54:9; Ezekiel 14:14, 20; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:19, 20; 2 Peter 2:5.
    Jesus Christ referred to the Flood, saying: “Just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all.” (Luke 17:26, 27) If the Deluge had not happened, then Jesus’ statement about “the days of the Son of man” would be meaningless.
    The apostle Peter foretold that there would come “ridiculers” who would scoff at what the Bible says. “According to their wish,” Peter wrote, “this fact escapes their notice, that . . . the world of [Noah’s] time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.” Should “this fact” escape our notice? Absolutely not! Peter continued: “The heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.”—2 Peter 3:3-7.
    Once again, God will destroy the wicked, and once again, there will be survivors. By patterning our life after Noah’s, we may be among the righteous ones who will be delivered into a better world.

  457. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:28 pm 457.Lou said …

    453.godskingdomway said …

    “You…want me to speculate perhaps you may gain the upper hand in the conversation.”

    What further explanation do we need? But we really don’t need you to speculate. It’s very obvious that we have “upper hand in the conversation.”

  458. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:32 pm 458.Lou said …

    455.godskingdomway said …

    “Noah and the Flood—Fact, Not Fiction”

    Straight from Yahoo! Answers.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100921141034AAKGl9x

  459. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:34 pm 459.godskingdomway said …

    Lou, therefore any idea a scientists comes up with will be considered to you as fact.That still is not what fact is,I understand you say that since what you see around is explainable then our origin must be explained in the same way.However you and I differ because what you see as scientific I ALSO see as complex ,to complex to have originated by chance. science teaches me nothing complex ever develops by chance, but by design. I meant by ‘basis” as how did it happen explain in detail, but you said how it happened is “irrelevant”.I cant see how someone that explains science to be what abolishes the idea of god can say that the foundation of what you believe to have started man kind is not important.Also explain to me if evolution took place what explains the exsistance of the earth,water,the universe,and its inhabitance(such as stars etc)?

  460. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:10 pm 460.Lou said …

    458.godskingdomway said …

    “Lou, therefore any idea a scientists comes up with will be considered to you as fact.”

    Really? Then why don’t I accept all the rebuttals to evolution that you c & p as fact? What you wrote about me is a lie.

    “That still is not what fact is,I understand you say that since what you see around is explainable then our origin must be explained in the same way.However you and I differ because what you see as scientific I ALSO see as complex ,to complex to have originated by chance.”

    Where did I mention chance?

    “science teaches me nothing complex ever develops by chance, but by design.”

    Please refer us to the scientific principle that “nothing complex ever develops by chance, but by design.”

    “I meant by ‘basis” as how did it happen explain in detail,”

    Then I did answer your question when I wrote “Nobody knows the exact, specific process for the origin of life (not evolution as you asked).”

    “…but you said how it happened is “irrelevant”.

    Not exactly. I wrote that theories are irrelevant to the existence of natural process. They exist whether or not we understand how they work.

    “I cant see how someone that explains science to be what abolishes the idea of god can say that the foundation of what you believe to have started man kind is not important.”

    It’s not ABSOLUTELY “important.” Knowing what or how mankind started has no material effect on my existence. I was born, live, and will die regardless of that knowledge. Such knowledge is only relatively “important.”

    “Also explain to me if evolution took place what explains the exsistance of the earth,water,the universe,and its inhabitance(such as stars etc)?”

    Do you mean the physical processes? I’m not a teacher. It’s not my job to educate you about physical science. If you require an extensive answer, then I suggest you attend school or read some actual science text books rather than waste your time c & p crackpot rebuttals to evolution.

    If you mean WHY does the universe exist, then nobody can answer that. Even if I agreed that god created the universe, then you still can’t answer why he did. Only god could do that, if he exists, but regardless, he hasn’t answered that question. If he did, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

  461. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:19 pm 461.godskingdomway said …

    Lou i have viewed your link and have to tell you that the bible book of genesis does not say the earth is 6,ooo years old.Remember in one of my posts I said meditate on the very first scripture OF THE BIBLE?The earth was created before jehovah had created days so therefore the earth was not included in the “7 DAY” PERIOD IN WHICH GOD WAS CREATING EVERYTHING UPON THE EARTH.tHUS THE EARTH IS FAR OLDER THEN EVERYTHING ELSE,AND MAN WAS ONLY CREATED IN THE SIXTH DAY AND WHO KNOWS HOW LONG EACH DAY PERIOD IS.

    The Noachian Flood occurred more than 4,000 years ago. So there are no eyewitness survivors on earth to tell us about it. However, there is a written record of that catastrophe, which states that the floodwaters covered the tallest mountain of that time.
    The historical document reads: “The deluge went on for forty days upon the earth . . . And the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered. Up to fifteen cubits [about 22 feet [6.5 m]] the waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered.”—Genesis 7:17-20.
    Some may wonder if the story of the whole earth being covered with water is a myth or at least an exaggeration. Not at all! Indeed, to some extent the earth is still flooded. Seawater covers about 71 percent of the earth’s surface. So in reality the floodwaters are still here. And if the glaciers and polar ice caps were to melt, the sea level would rise to cover cities like New York and Tokyo.
    Geologists studying the landscape of the northwestern United States believe that as many as 100 ancient catastrophic floods once washed over the area. One such flood is said to have roared through the region with a wall of water 2,000 feet [600 m] high, traveling at 65 miles an hour [105 km/hr]—a flood of 500 cubic miles [2,000 cu km] of water, weighing more than two trillion tons. Similar findings have led other scientists to believe that a global flood is a distinct possibility
    Anthropologists have collected as many as 270 flood legends from nearly all tribes and nations. “The flood story is found throughout the world,” says scholar Claus Westermann. “Like the creation narrative, it is part of our basic cultural heritage. It is truly astonishing: everywhere on earth we find stories of a great primeval flood.” The explanation? Says expositor Enrico Galbiati: “The insistent presence of a flood tradition in different and widely separated peoples is a sign of the historical reality of the fact that lies at the base of such traditions.” More important to Christians than scholarly observations, however, is the knowledge that Jesus himself spoke of the Flood as an actual event in the history of mankind.—Luke 17:26, 27.
    , Noah and seven other persons survived, along with a sampling of every beast, flying creature, and thing moving on the ground. (Genesis 7:21, 23) All had been preserved in a large floating ark that was about 437 feet [133 m] long, 73 feet [22 m] wide, and 44 feet [13 m] high. Since the only functions of the ark were that it be watertight and that it stay afloat, it had no rounded bottom, sharp bow, means of propulsion, or equipment for steering. Noah’s ark was simply a rectangular, chestlike vessel.
    The ark had a carrying capacity equal to that of 10 freight trains of about 25 American boxcars each!

  462. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:30 pm 462.Lou said …

    460.godskingdomway said …

    “Lou i have viewed your link and have to tell you that the bible book of genesis does not say the earth is 6,ooo years old.”

    I ask this rhetorically, but is there something wrong with you? The link I posted was to a Yahoo! Answers page that contained the text that you c & p in 455.godskingdomway. I only posted it to show from where you c & p your lasted nonsense.

  463. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:43 pm 463.MrQ said …

    GKW

    Noah and seven other persons survived, along with a sampling of every beast, flying creature, and thing moving on the ground

    Using the knowledge which you have acquired in your training and study of evolution, anthroplogy, and other sciences you will see that genetic bottlenecking occurs when brothers and sistes / fathers and daughters / mothers and sons / etc start to reproduce.
    Also -What would compel a group of people to travel to harsh climates such as the arctic after the flood abated? It would be easier to stay in the tropics and eat mangoes all day, wouldn’t it? Use your noodle.
    How sickly were the Ark inhabitants anyway? With two of every host specific parasite, virus, bacerium, and all of the other afflictions animals are prone to. Amazing to think they all survived while aboard.

  464. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:45 pm 464.godskingdomway said …

    hE HAS ANSWERED THAT QUESTION IN HIS WORD THE BIBLE.HE CREATED US BECAUSE HIS MAIN QUALITY IS LOVE.IF YOU HAVE LOVE AND POWER LIKE HIM THE ONLY NATURAL THING TO DO IS TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT CAN SHARE THE SAME LOVE AND HAPPINESS WITH YOU.THE EARTH, AND SUN, AND ANIMALS,EXSIST BECAUSE JEHOVAH WANTED US TO BE HAPPY BY GIVING YOU WOMEN AS A COMPANION AND VARIETY OF FOOD FOR PLEASURE,AND THE ABILITY TO GIVE BIRTH SO YOU CAN ENJOY EVERYTHING HE HAS TO ENJOY.HOWEVER HE KNOWS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO COEXSIST SO IN ORDER TO COEXSIST PEACEFULLY IS TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS .IT WOULD ENSURE PEACE AND HAPPINESS.THIS IS WHY THE WORLD IS WHAT IT IS.SATAN CHALLENGED GODS RIGHT TO RULE THE EARTH HE HAS CHARGED THAT A MAN WILL GIVE HIS INTEGRITY UNDER TRIALS AND TEMPTATION.JEHOVAH MUST SHOW US HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN GUIDE US.THEREFORE WE ARE TODAY TRYING TO REBEL AGAINST HIM BUT ONLY PROVING HIM RIGHT BY ALL THE HATRED AND THAT GOVERNMENTS ARE NOT TAKING REAL GD CARE OF ITS CITIZENS.SATAN KNOWS HE IS WRONG BUT DOES WHAT HE DOES OUT OF THE DESIRE TO BE WORSHIPPED AS GOD IS.FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOST THIER LIVES DUE TO THIS CHALLENGE GOD PROMISES A RESSURECTION.TO THOSE WHO ENDURE HE PROMISES THEM PARADISE(OF COURSE THE RESSURECTED PEOPLE WILL GO TO PARADISE AS WELL)THIS IS HOW GOD PLANS TO CORRECT THE MISTAKES OF MAN,SATAN,AND HIS DEMONS.HOWEVER WE MUST ALL SEE FIRST INCLUDING THE WICKED THAT JEHOVAH HAS UNIVERSAL SOVEREIGNTY AND WE MUST SEE WHO ARE THE GOATS AND WHO ARE THE SHEEP CLEARLY

  465. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:55 pm 465.Lou said …

    463.godskingdomway said …

    “…WE MUST SEE WHO ARE THE GOATS AND WHO ARE THE SHEEP CLEARLY”

    What’s a “SHEEP CLEARLY?” Were they on the ark?

    Regardless, it’s obvious that you are a sheep.

  466. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:57 pm 466.DPK said …

    If god is loving… why did he create Satan?

    I’ll make popcorn.

    Please stop shouting.

  467. on 22 Aug 2011 at 4:58 pm 467.DPK said …

    Did Noah take fish on the Ark?… how about whales?
    Smallpox?

  468. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:03 pm 468.godskingdomway said …

    SEVEN OF SOME ANIMALS TWO OF OTHERS,40 YEARS TO COLLECT ENOUGH WATER AND FOOD.POSSIBLE AND LIKELY NO BROTHERS AND SISTERS.WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE ARCTIC?LIKE I SAID EARLIER THE “KINDS”THAT NOAH MUST OF HAD ON THE ARC ARE THE ANCESTORS OF MODERN LIFE NOT ALL PARASITES AND SUCH HAD TO BE ONBOARD SIMPLY A ANCESTOR.ALSO MAY I ASK IS IT A SCIENTIFIC FACT THAT MIRACLES DO NOT HAPPEN?IF YES SHOW ME THE PROOF!OH YES AND LOU,I DID NOT C&P ANYTHING FROM YAHOO.DONT HATE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO SAY BESIDES WINING THAT I AM NOT TELLING YOU THE TRUTH BUT YOU CANT SEEM TO PROVIDE ANYTHING THAT CLAIMS TO DIFFER.

    462.MrQ said …
    ” and other sciences you will see that genetic bottlenecking occurs when brothers and sistes / fathers and daughters / mothers and sons / etc start to reproduce’

    SO IN EVOLUTON TWO NON LIVING CELLS FORMED FROM NON LIVING MATTER THEN TURNED INTO SOME SPECIES(MALE AND FEMALE) THAT WERE NOT RELATED GENETICALLY,THEN THESE “THINGS”HAD SEX AND THEN WHO DID THIER CHILDREN HAVE SEX WITH?ALSO DID THIS “THING” THAT APPEARED OUT OF NOWHERE THEN EVOLVE INTO BACTERIA,APES,LIONS,HOMINIDS?WHY HAVE WE NEVER FOUND INTERMEDIATE BONES(BONES THAT SHOW THE CHANGING FROM ONE SPECIES TO ANOTHER LIKE A BIRD WITH A ARM ETC)?THEN ALSO DID THESE THINGS MATE WITH RELATIVES?

  469. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:09 pm 469.Lou said …

    466.DPK said …

    “Did Noah take fish on the Ark?”

    Yes, he had a large freshwater aquarium on board for the fish that couldn’t survive in the salt water of the flood. Or was it the other way around?

    “… how about whales?”

    He didn’t have to take whales because everybody knows that Capt. Kirk and Scotty could always rely on Mr. Spock to create a time-warp equation that would allow then to travel back in time to get a pair to repopulate the species. How do I know this is possible? Because I saw it in a movie with my own two eyes. Wait, Scotty died.

  470. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:15 pm 470.Lou said …

    467.godskingdomway said …

    “OH YES AND LOU,I DID NOT C&P ANYTHING FROM YAHOO.”

    Then from where did you c & p? It isn’t really relevant that you c & p from a Yahoo! Answers page. But it’s relevant that you c & p from somewhere. Do you want to tell us where?

  471. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:30 pm 471.godskingdomway said …

    USE YOUR BRAIN WHALES AND FISH CANT LIVE IN FLOOD WATER?DUH.OH YEA ONCE AGAIN NOT SHOUTING JUST LIKE WRITING IN CAPS.GEN 1:31 SAYS THAT GOD LOOKED AT EVERYTHING HE MADE AND, LOOK!IT WAS GOOD.HE MADE EVERYTHING GOOD.ALSO SATAN WAS NOT ALWAYS EVIL.THE BIBLE SAYS THAT UPON COMPLETION OF THE EARTH ALL THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN WERE CLAPPING FROM SHEER JOY.SO YOU MEAN TO ASK HOW DID SATAN BECOME SLANDERER THE OPPOSER WHICH MEANS SATAN THE DEVIL?WELL HE ALLOWED A DESIRE TO FESTER IN HIM OF BEING WORSHIPED THE WAY JEHOVAH WAS HE WAS JEALOUS.THOUGHT ABOUT IT CONSTANTLY AND THEN WHEN FINALLY HE HEARD GOD SAY TO THE HUMANS TO BE FRUITFUL AND BECOME MANY HE CEASED THE OPPERTUNITY TO GET WHAT HE WANTED SO HE BEGAN TO LIE AND DECIEVE AND OPPOSE.JAMES 1:13-15 THIS SCRIPTURE SAYS When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death
    SO SATAN ENTICED BY HIS OWN DESIRE DID NOT FIGHT HIS URGES IT WON OUT IN THE END SO NOW HE WILL HAVE TO DIE IN ORDER FOR THE OBEDIENT TO LIVE.DEATH IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN

  472. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:35 pm 472.MrQ said …

    GKW

    WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE ARCTIC

    I did. There are and have been people living in that harsh environment (as well as many other challenging places) for thousands of years. Why would they choose to give up mangoes for muktuk? Seems stupid to me. Use your noodle.

    Hey, I just thought about something else…. not a pleasant thought but I just came back from the *ahem* biffy. This event/movement (for lack of a better term) sparked a small thought in my tiny brain. Who got shit detail on the Ark? With all that food going into ALL those animals something has to come out from the other end. Seven people doing the work? …I doubt it, we might as well rule out Captain Noah as even lifting a finger to help with that work. So six people poop scooping. Maybe two of them would enthusiastically take the role of first mate and navigator, leaving just four poor saps to feed their charges and then collect and fire the scat over the decks. Did they even get a chance to sleep?

  473. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:37 pm 473.godskingdomway said …

    YOU GUYS REALLY DO IGNORE MY POSTS.I HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION OF WHY IT WAS NOT NEEDED FOR NOAH TO HAVE ALL SPECIES OF ANIMAL (SIMPLY A KIND WICH IS LARGER IN MEANING ON BOARD).i HAVE ALSO PLACED MY RESOURCES IN MY POSTS.watchtower and soooooo many others.you guys keep asking over and over and over the same thing.plus you guys fail to do anything besides be critical.wheres your sources,and proof.NON EXSISTING LIKE YOU THINK GOD IS.

  474. on 22 Aug 2011 at 5:44 pm 474.godskingdomway said …

    MR Q I TOLD YOU IN MY POSTS HOW THE ARC WAS MADE ITS CAPACITY AND THAT IT DID NOT HAVE THINGS TO NAVIGATE WITH, READ POST 460 THE LAST PARAGRAPH.ALSO YOU ARE SAYING THAT IN EVOLUTION SOMEWHERE THIS THING WE EVOLVED FROM,DID IT LIVE IN GOOD WEATHER PLACES?WHY DID PEOPLE GO TO THE ARCTIC IF WE EVOLVED FROM ANIMALS THAT LIVED IN SUMMER PLACES?READ AND ANSWER LAST PARAGRAPH OF POST 467

  475. on 22 Aug 2011 at 6:01 pm 475.MrQ said …

    GKW

    WHY HAVE WE NEVER FOUND INTERMEDIATE BONES

    At your leisure, STUDY:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/features/whales/
    http://darwiniana.org/landtosea.htm
    And there’s much more. Keep using your noodle.

    WHY DID PEOPLE GO TO THE ARCTIC IF WE EVOLVED FROM ANIMALS THAT LIVED IN SUMMER PLACES

    EXCELLENT QUESTION. <-Hear me SHOUT.
    If one factors in enough TIME, it is probable and likely.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beringia
    You make a claim that it happened in the last 4000 years.

  476. on 22 Aug 2011 at 6:03 pm 476.Lou said …

    472.godskingdomway said …

    “YOU GUYS REALLY DO IGNORE MY POSTS.”

    Most of them, yes.

    “I HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION OF WHY IT WAS NOT NEEDED FOR NOAH TO HAVE ALL SPECIES OF ANIMAL (SIMPLY A KIND WICH IS LARGER IN MEANING ON BOARD)”

    If it wasn’t necessary to have all species on board the ark, then why was it necessary to have ANY on board the ark? Why didn’t god simply wiggle his nose or snap his fingers to solve whatever problem was resolved by having a flood? If god can cause a world-wide flood that drowns everything on the earth except for fish and those on the ark, why can’t he simply exterminate the evil people without killing all the innocent animals and innocent human babies? Or were the babies evil?

    “.i HAVE ALSO PLACED MY RESOURCES IN MY POSTS.watchtower and soooooo many others.you guys keep asking over and over and over the same thing.”

    Sorry, I didn’t realize that your ark comment was also from watchtower. Whenever you quote something you should include its source.

    “plus you guys fail to do anything besides be critical.wheres your sources,and proof.NON EXSISTING LIKE YOU THINK GOD IS.”

    The source for my replies to you have been mine unless I noted otherwise. I didn’t c & p from somewhere else. There is no “proof” that god doesn’t exist. But if there isn’t any proof that god does NOT exist, then wouldn’t there be proof that he does exist? If yes, then please present it.

  477. on 22 Aug 2011 at 6:19 pm 477.DPK said …

    USE YOUR BRAIN WHALES AND FISH CANT LIVE IN FLOOD WATER?DUH.

    So, god didn’t kill everything on earth, just the animals who lived on land were evil? What about tropical fish that require a very specific salt content? Which ones did Noah take, and which ones were left to fend for themselves?

    So god made Satan good. Then he turned evil? Epic fail god. Didn’t he know that was gonna happen? Why did he do it anyway?
    D

  478. on 22 Aug 2011 at 7:30 pm 478.Lou said …

    473.godskingdomway said …

    “WHY DID PEOPLE GO TO THE ARCTIC IF WE EVOLVED FROM ANIMALS THAT LIVED IN SUMMER PLACES?”

    Human migration and settlement patterns were affected by glaciations. For example, ~20,000 years ago North America lay under an enormous ice-sheet that obviously doesn’t exist now.

  479. on 22 Aug 2011 at 7:43 pm 479.DPK said …

    I think I’m becoming enlightened.
    So, deadly contagious bacteria and other parasites didn’t come on the ark with Noah and the animals… they all evolved from harmless bacteria completely AFTER the flood event. And all the in-species evolution we see now, like some 30 million different species of insects that currently exists, mostly all evolved after man had already been here long enough to be able to build an ark, presumably the size of Texas.

    Ok.
    And god didn’t actually kill every living thing on the earth in the flodd, as the bible says, because obviously, if you have a brain, you know that fish and marine mammals can live in flood water. What about creatures that can live on both land AND water, like seals and sea lions… or did they evolve later too?

  480. on 22 Aug 2011 at 9:01 pm 480.DPK said …

    I can picture our JW friend frantically googling “why did god create satan?”

    Get ready………….

  481. on 22 Aug 2011 at 9:54 pm 481.godskingdomway said …

    why dont you guys do some critical thinking to see how its possible instead of coming up with questions you think I cant answer .first off can seals and sea lions live forever in water.Eventually they will need to sleep and get tired and drown.second god is a god of order not disorder so everything he does is part of a very specific bigger picture.So no, hes not gonna do anything like poof.Magic is a demon and man made concept.so god does things realistically.Take for instance when jehovah informed his prophets that Babylon would be taken over because the water would receed around thier large walled kingdom (that made it hard for enemies to infilltrate).He also told the prophet that king cyrus( way before he was born )was the one to conquer the babylonians.Jehovah said that he would open the large gate of the babylonians to king cyrus.Then on that faithful day many years later,the babylonians were having a party and left the gate open.Meanwhile the army of king cyrus had been diverting the water so that it receeds so they could pass through and conquer.Guess what they did.So you see how jehovah accomplishes his will.This is why he chooses to flood the earth because he is a god of order not disorder.Also there may have been parasites living in the animals aboard.so many parasite live in animals and do not kill immediately.also i may not be able to tell you exactly what animals were on the arc,but regardless the explanation is that every species needed to develop todays variety,had servived either in the water or the arc.And that my son is quite possible.Also God does not predetermine what you will do.He created satan before he was evil and what satan choose to do with his free will was his CHOICE.You see a perfect person in gods eyes is one who chooses to do his will.Once you choose not to, then you must know the price of sin is death for you and your children.Remeber God is a god of order and he knows that if he spares the life of all those children then who was gonna raise them.The seven on the arc?Noah warned them for 40 years.Also remember when adam and eve inherited sin it was like they were a pan with a dent in it.If you bake a cake in that pan your cake will have a dent in them.likewise ADAM AND EVE WERE DENTED AND NOW WE THIER CHILDREN HAVE DENTS.If a parent has sex with many partners gets aids and passes it to thier kids it is the parents fault.Say there was a cure for aids and the parent did not believe and refused,then when the child dies of aids it is the parents fault.

    DPK said “because obviously, if you have a brain, you know that fish and marine mammals can live in flood water. ” I was being sarcastic I did mean fish can live in flood water duh!

    Lou in what ways had human migration been effected by glaciation that you can use that as a stupid excuse as to why people who evolve are willing to leave good climate places for cold ones and people who descend from Noah are not?Gen 6:13 and 17,gen 7:4 talk about god flooding the earth and in the inhabitants on the surface of the ground so the scriptures I viewed here shows us the surface of the earth was drowned not marine life.Not all salt water fish died there may have been some areas that had enough salt based on the contents on the surface of the ground.Parasites need to live in hosts therefore may have hitched a ride on the animals,also insects like wood perhaps so many had flocked to the enormous arc.Eat the pooh also.lol,read tose small scriptures this will clarify for you greatly booyah!

  482. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:01 pm 482.godskingdomway said …

    Dpk you wish I already studied this stuff this is why I know where to find it because befrore you came along we have to learn these things in the kingdom hall for the preaching work.I dont have to google.You do even though You have not even tried to defend yourselves.OOPs my mistake you guys are trying -very poorly!

  483. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:19 pm 483.Xenon said …

    “I can picture our JW friend frantically googling “why did god create satan?””

    Quite simple no need to google. Satan was Lucifer a created beautiful angel whose name means “light bearer”. Lucifer made a decision to rebel against God just as man has rebelled against God. His time is limited and his end is already determined.

    Why did you consider that so difficult? It is right in the Bible.

  484. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:21 pm 484.godskingdomway said …

    you know what I guess time will have to tell this story!Have a nice life

  485. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:23 pm 485.Lou said …

    481.Xenon said …

    “Quite simple no need to google.”

    To c & p it.

    “Why did you consider that so difficult? It is right in the Bible.”

    That certainly explains it. A book of myths explaining a myth.

  486. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:26 pm 486.Lou said …

    479.godskingdomway said …

    “Lou in what ways had human migration been effected by glaciation that you can use that as a stupid excuse as to why people who evolve are willing to leave good climate places for cold ones and people who descend from Noah are not?”

    I didn’t differentiate between people who evolved and people who allegedly descended from Noah. But then again, I don’t have to.

  487. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:27 pm 487.Lou said …

    480.godskingdomway said …

    “Dpk you wish I already studied this stuff this is why I know where to find it because befrore you came along we have to learn these things in the kingdom hall for the preaching work.I dont have to google.”

    Correct, you told us that you c & p from watchtower materials.

  488. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:31 pm 488.godskingdomway said …

    The word satan the devil means slanderer the opposer.Often when looking for insight on a specific word from the bible refer to its hebrew or greek origin, then look for the definition.This assures more accuracy as some bible translations may choose a word that seems to light a term or bias.Keep this in mind, refer to the original hebrew greek scriptures.

  489. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:35 pm 489.godskingdomway said …

    So what if I cut and paste ,these magazines are studied with questions at the end of each paragraph.We do this with our books every week ALSO.tHESE ARE THE TEACHINGS OF THE ELDERS FROM JEHOVAH ,ISNT THAT ALL THAT MATTERS.i BELIEVE THEM SO THEREFORE THESE ARE ALSO MY BELIEFS.sO WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CUT AND PASTE? GROW UP!

  490. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:39 pm 490.godskingdomway said …

    WHY HAVE A ATHIEST WEBSITE WHEN THE MOMENT TRUE WORSHIP AND THE ANSWERS COMES AROUND YOU CANT DEFEND YOUR STAND BUT MERELY INSULT?wHY PUT YOURSELF THROUGH THIS HUMILIATION?i AM NOT HUMILIATING YOU ,BUT YOUR CONDUCT ,AND EXCUSES, AND BIASNESS IS!

  491. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:49 pm 491.Lou said …

    479.godskingdomway said …

    “second god is a god of order not disorder so everything he does is part of a very specific bigger picture.”

    Really! God is a god of order?! Despite that god is untrue anyway, the idea that your god is a god of order contradicts what we’ve been taught – Satan, global floods, eviction from Eden, infanticide, numerous mass extinctions, and the future rapture are anything but work of a god of order. You’re so disingenuous and dishonest that any intelligent conversation with you is almost impossible.

    “So no, hes not gonna do anything like poof.Magic is a demon and man made concept.so god does things realistically.”

    Nobody mentioned magic. But for you to claim that “magic is a demon” while accepting miracles and global floods is completely irrational.

  492. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:50 pm 492.Lou said …

    486.godskingdomway said …

    “The word satan the devil means slanderer the opposer.”

    How is the meaning of that name relevant?

  493. on 22 Aug 2011 at 10:54 pm 493.Lou said …

    487.godskingdomway said …

    “So what if I cut and paste…”

    Because you do it with out attributing its source, and you do it mostly in lieu of your own ideas rather than as you would write about it as you claim to have studied it. But you haven’t studied it. You’ve been indoctrinated with it by a crackpot religion.

  494. on 22 Aug 2011 at 11:19 pm 494.DPK said …

    So, are you going to explain why god created Satan knowing that he would become the personification of evil? And since god already knew how this was going to play out, why did he bother?
    Please tell us in your own words… not a c&p bunch of scripture qoutes… why did god create evil?

    Then, please explain your statement that “So no, hes not gonna do anything like poof.Magic is a demon and man made concept.so god does things realistically.”
    Are you saying that things like the parting of the seas, the Nile turning to blood, mana raining from heaven, Jesus raising Lazarus, turning water to wine, the loaves and fishes….. all that never happened?

  495. on 22 Aug 2011 at 11:20 pm 495.Xenon said …

    “So what if I cut and paste…”

    Lou you claimed I cut & paste when I typed my response in my own words.

    Your style and confrontational nature point to a young fella without a job and nothing to do. Grow up, stop your bitter attacks and find something productive to do.

    I have no problem with confrontations but you have nothing to back up your rhetoric.

    Now you will cut & paste part of my post and make a snide comment. You are very predictable.

  496. on 23 Aug 2011 at 12:54 am 496.godskingdomway said …

    LOU SAID “god is a god of order contradicts what we’ve been taught – Satan, global floods, eviction from Eden, infanticide, numerous mass extinctions, and the future rapture are anything but work of a god of order.”

    gOD DID NOT CAUSE SATAN TO BE AS HE IS, FREE WILL HE GAVE US WICH IS A ORDERLY LOVING THING TO DO ENABLED HIM TO CHOOSE.aLSO A GOD WITH ALL POWER HAS THE ABILITY TO NOT PREDETERMINE US .WHY WOULD HE PREDESTIN US AND YET GIVE US FREE WILL, THOSE CONCEPTS DO NOT COINCIDE (HE IS NOT CONSTANTLY LOOKING TO THE FUTURE TO SEE WHAT WE WILL DO).tHEREFORE HE IS NOT LIABLE FOR THE CHOICES WE MAKE.ALSO THOSE THINGS LIKE THE PARTING OF THE RED SEA AND SUCH WERE THE MIRACLES HE CREATED IN THE TIMES OF THE ISREALITES.i MEANT TO SAY THAT FOR US HE IS NOT GONNA POOF DO SOMETHING FOR US IT WILL OCCUR REASONABLE.tHIS IS BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN THERE AND TRIED THE MIRACLES AND PEOPLE STILL DIDNT BELIEVE.nOW HE REQUIRES WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH BECAUSE HE IS SPIRIT AND HIS WORD IS THE TRUTH(SCIPTURE).I ALSO STATED MY RESOURCES AGAIN AND AGAIN GO READ MY POSTS AND YOU WILL KNOW.BUT I WILL SAY IT AGAIN.THE ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITTANICA AND TNEW GEOLOGY.US,http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Ramapithecus.aspx,NOT TO MENTION THE SCIENTISTS AND EXPERIMENTS REFERENCED IN MY POSTS,THE WATCHTOWER HAD ACCESS TO THE UN LIBRARIES FOR FULL ACCURATE INFORMATION.wAY MORE EXTENSIVE THEN THAT OF THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND EASIER TO FIND THEN THE INTERNET.

    i HAVE TOLD YOU THESE THINGS OVER AND OVER.you know it is not important if i cut and paste.you simply dont want to read,nor can you argue with it so you try to bait me into expressing it in my own words so that you may twist them and say i am nuts.that is how your sad game works however the scriptures say that after the copletion of the earth all the angels were happy and clapping so satan at that point was good.also the scriptures say that upon completion of gods work he saw that all he had created was good.so satan had free will god did not create evil no matter if you want to accet it or not here is the logical truthful answer.so i will cut and paste an article about god and allowing suffering being different from causing it.This is much like a parent who sees their child doing wrong.he does not know the child will do wrong and when the child does at some point that parent cant help but to let him learn.this does not make the crime of the childs the crime of the parnt who has advised,discipline and done everything they could.so heres the post.ALSO IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE THE INFO COMES FROM ITS YOUR JOB TO SHOW INFO THAT DISPROVES IT

  497. on 23 Aug 2011 at 1:14 am 497.godskingdomway said …

    iS IT A SCIENTIFIC FACT LOU THAT MIRACLES DO NOT HAPPEN?ANSWER YES OR NO!iF YOU DONT ANSWER WE ALL WILL TAKE IT AS A NO!

    IM NOT SURE WHO SAID THIS A WHILE AGO-“As for evolution, evolution is a fact. The only difference between what you call micro and macro evolution is time. It is difficult for we humans to really comprehend the enormity of geological, no less, cosmic time.’

    LOU SAID” Not exactly. I wrote that theories are irrelevant to the existence of natural process. They exist whether or not we understand how they work. ‘

    HEB 11:1 “Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld”

    SO YOU GUYS HERE ADMIT THAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE ORIGIN OF LIFE YOU JUST PUTTING FAITH(DEFINITION OF FAITH ABOVE)IN THE SCIENTISTS WHO TOLD YOU IT WAS SOME COMPLICATED THEORY THEY COULD NOT PROVE.

    HONEY FACE IT IT WOULD BE ALL OVER THE NEWS THE DAY THAT EVOLUTION WOULD BE DETERMINED A FACT OF OUR ORIGIN.THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE FACTS LAY AGAINST IT

  498. on 23 Aug 2011 at 1:36 am 498.godskingdomway said …

    Why Does God Allow Suffering?
    God is not the cause of human suffering. “Far be it from the true God to act wickedly!” states the Bible. (Job 34:10) Who, then, is the prime instigator of misery?
    Jesus called Satan “the ruler of the world.” (John 14:30) True, Jehovah is the Universal Sovereign. That position he will never relinquish. However, for a time, God has allowed Satan to rule most of mankind.—1 John 5:19.
    What kind of ruler has Satan been? Ever since his first contact with humans, Satan has been a murderer and a deceiver. Satan wreaks havoc on human society in profound ways. Jesus indicted him with these words: “That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.” (John 8:44) Jesus also said that the men seeking to kill him were children of the first murderer. They made themselves his children by acting like him. Like father, like son, the adage states.
    Satan still fosters murderous attitudes in the hearts of mankind. For example, R. J. Rummel, emeritus professor at the University of Hawaii, U.S.A., estimates that from 1900 to 1987, various governments murdered 169,198,000 people during political purges, genocides, and indiscriminate acts of violence. That death toll is in addition to the tens of millions killed on the battlefield during the same period.
    If God does not cause suffering, why does he allow it? Because universal issues, moral ones, raised a long time ago still need to be settled. Let us look at just one of them.
    At the beginning of human history, Adam and Eve sided with Satan. They rejected God’s rule and chose self-rule, which was really rule by the Devil.—Genesis 3:1-6; Revelation 12:9.
    Jehovah’s sense of justice required that time be allowed for evidence to accumulate. What is the inescapable conclusion? Human rule under Satan’s influence leads only to suffering. Really, in the long run, God’s allowance of time has been for man’s benefit. How so? Those who study the evidence and believe it have the opportunity to demonstrate their willingness to be ruled by God. Those who learn of God’s standards and live by them have the prospect of living forever.—John 17:3; 1 John 2:17.
    True, for now, Satan has the world in his evil grip. But not for much longer. Soon Jehovah will use his Son to “break up the works of the Devil.” (1 John 3:8) Under God’s direction, Jesus will mend broken hearts and restore shattered lives. He will resurrect back to life on earth billions of humans who have suffered and died over the centuries.—John 11:25.
    The resurrection of Jesus is an example of God’s victory over the works of the Devil—a token of what is to come for humans who choose God’s rule. (Acts 17:31) The Bible directs our thoughts to that time to come with these comforting words: “God himself will be with [mankind]. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”—Revelation 21:3, 4.

    SO NOW YOU SEE REGARDLESS OF ALL THAT HAS HAPPEN JEHOVAH CAN FIX IT BUT HE HAS TO WIPE OUT PEOPLE WHO WONT COMPLY.THESE PEOPLE ARE LIKE MANSLAYERS BECAUSE THEY LISTENED TO SATAN WHO WAS THE FIRST MANSLAYER AS THE POST SAID EARLIER.EVOLUTION MEANS NO SOLUTION JUST MORE ANIMALISTIC INSTINCTIVE BEHAIVOR

  499. on 23 Aug 2011 at 1:40 am 499.godskingdomway said …

    YOU SEE I FOUND A SMALL ARTICLE FOR YOU GUYS BECAUSE I WAS CONSIDERING THAT YOU DONT WANT TO READ TO MUCH.THEN I FOUND THIS .PERHAPS IT WAS BECAUSE JEHOVAH SEES THAT HE IS AFFECTING ONE OF YOU AND GAVE THIS AS MEANS TO CONVINCE(I CAN ONLY HOPE)LOL.I WANTED TO KNOW IF ANY OF YOU WERE AMPUTEES?I SAW IN ANOTHER POST THAT ONE OF YOU ARE FROM THE ARMY!

  500. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:17 am 500.Lou said …

    494.godskingdomway said …

    “nOW HE REQUIRES WE WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH BECAUSE HE IS SPIRIT AND HIS WORD IS THE TRUTH”

    So much for the idea that he gave us free will.

  501. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:22 am 501.Lou said …

    494.godskingdomway said …

    “gOD DID NOT CAUSE SATAN TO BE AS HE IS”

    Who caused god to be as he is – a murdering, maniacal being?

  502. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:26 am 502.DPK said …

    So, a perfect being created another being who he knew full well would turn against him and bring evil into the world, just so he could ultimately defeat him, but only after untold millennia of suffering? Sounds like he needs a more constructive hobby.
    Now, does “And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” apply to all the billions of people who are already burning in hell?

  503. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:27 am 503.Lou said …

    497.godskingdomway said …

    “I WANTED TO KNOW IF ANY OF YOU WERE AMPUTEES?”

    OK, which one of you is an amputee?! (WTF?)

    “I SAW IN ANOTHER POST THAT ONE OF YOU ARE FROM THE ARMY”

    OK, which one of you “ARE FROM THE ARMY?”

    Come on, somebody humor godsnutcase because I’m getting bored with her.

  504. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:43 am 504.Lou said …

    495.godskingdomway said …

    “iS IT A SCIENTIFIC FACT LOU THAT MIRACLES DO NOT HAPPEN?ANSWER YES OR NO!iF YOU DONT ANSWER WE ALL WILL TAKE IT AS A NO!”

    First, you must define “miracle.” If the definition of a miracle is an event that violates the laws of nature, then by that definition, it is a scientific fact that miracles do not happen. There have not been any legitimately documented events that violate the laws of nature. Allow me to save you some time – don’t c & p a bunch of scripture, because it’s meaningless. If you are asking if it’s a scientific fact that miracles don’t happen, then you must show a miracle that’s acceptable to science if you want to dispute that.

    So the answer is a resounding yes.

  505. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:46 am 505.Lou said …

    496.godskingdomway said …

    “Satan still fosters murderous attitudes in the hearts of mankind. For example, R. J. Rummel, emeritus professor at the University of Hawaii, U.S.A., estimates that from 1900 to 1987, various governments murdered 169,198,000 people during political purges, genocides, and indiscriminate acts of violence. That death toll is in addition to the tens of millions killed on the battlefield during the same period.”

    Is that in addition to the millions murdered by god?

  506. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:49 am 506.Lou said …

    494.godskingdomway said …

    “gOD DID NOT CAUSE SATAN TO BE AS HE IS…”

    If Satan and man have free will, and if Satan causes man to be evil, then who caused Satan to be evil? God?

  507. on 23 Aug 2011 at 4:17 am 507.Lou said …

    495.godskingdomway said …

    “HONEY FACE IT IT WOULD BE ALL OVER THE NEWS THE DAY THAT EVOLUTION WOULD BE DETERMINED A FACT OF OUR ORIGIN.THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED BECAUSE THE FACTS LAY AGAINST IT”

    It’s not news that evolution is fact anymore than it’s news that gravity is a fact.

    HEADLINE – Newton Struck By Falling Apple, Declares “Alchemy Is Fact!”

    FACE IT – what would be news is a real miracle. But miracles that make the news are like all the countless reports, photographs, and video recordings of alien spacecraft that appear on the news – they simply never are true. In fact, almost all of them are hoaxes, much like miracles, or for that matter, your religion.

  508. on 23 Aug 2011 at 12:25 pm 508.Lou said …

    479.godskingdomway said …

    “So no, hes not gonna do anything like poof.”

    If god doesn’t “do anything like “poof,” then what is the process or mechanism that god used to create all the different animals from single-cell organisms to complex creatures, including all of those that are now extinct?

  509. on 23 Aug 2011 at 12:29 pm 509.Lou said …

    493.Xenon said …

    “Your style and confrontational nature point to a young fella without a job and nothing to do. ”

    I don’t have a job in the same sense that you probably do. I own the company.

    “Grow up, stop your bitter attacks and find something productive to do.”

    Like c & p a bunch of literature from a crackpot religion?

    “I have no problem with confrontations but you have nothing to back up your rhetoric.”

    Really? Then I would be interested to read your take on the Jehovah Witness religion. I eagerly anticipate your response.

  510. on 23 Aug 2011 at 2:09 pm 510.godskingdomway said …

    well god did not create satan.I have given you the view of the bible you either can accept it or not.I guess there is nothing else to say.So I hope you guys one day see for yourselves.Also I hope for you guys that you one day can experience the kind of happiness comes with knowing that jehovah loves you and is ready to forgive.I will leave you with this to meditate on.A world filled with people who belive and follow the conduct of the bible such as jehovahs witnesses would contribute to a much better world than one full of athiests who believe we come from animals and are still willing to go to war and to insult people on a whim.Have a nice life.Love and hope for you all.I see you guys are smart(in a worldly way-not an insult)so I hope one day you guys may wise up to accept information unbiasly.

    p.s. Kisses

  511. on 23 Aug 2011 at 2:29 pm 511.DPK said …

    Hold the presses! “God did not create Satan!?”

    There is now another player in the mix. I thought God created everything, and nothing exists outside of his will.

    Now Jehova’s Wackjob informs us that god did NOT create Satan…… so, who did? We have another creator to contend with?

    “much better world than one full of athiests who believe we come from animals and are still willing to go to war…”
    Shall we compare the number of religious wars to the number of atheist wars? And, newsflash, we don’t “come from animals” we ARE animals. You are the definition of a brainwashed moron.

  512. on 23 Aug 2011 at 2:47 pm 512.MrQ said …

    DPK #510

    god did NOT create Satan

    I would say that Satan evolved….the same way as the bible, god, belief evolved…from the minds of men whose curiosity to understand how the world/universe worked came up with the best case scenario at that time. Too bad people still vehemently cling to ancient tales. No harm in that if they KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES.

    The god that was so prevalent and interactive in days of old has gone into a permanent exile. Technology will do that. God fears technology.

  513. on 23 Aug 2011 at 2:50 pm 513.Lou said …

    508.godskingdomway said …

    “well god did not create satan.”

    I didn’t ask you if god created Satan I asked:

    If Satan and man have free will, and if Satan causes man to be evil, then who caused Satan to be evil? God?

  514. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:02 pm 514.DPK said …

    I asked “why did god create Satan (evil)”, so I assume the answer was to me. See, now when he actually lets something slip from his own brain rather than pasting carefully crafted propaganda from his cult, problems arise immediately. God didn’t create Satan…. but the bible says he did, and the bible says he had full knowledge of how things would play out. Is god just a powerless puppet? Can god change his mind, or is he powerless to do so? Kinda makes you wonder, if god was so perfect and wonderful and things in heaven are so blissful, why did the angels rebel against him in the first place? And, since he knew that man would turn against him (because he created him that way) why did he bother? Seems our “perfect” being has some serious flaws.
    Here we go down the rabbit hole of contradictions and rationalizations that are the hallmark of the deluded religious mind.

    “God fears technology.”
    “Pay no attention the man behind the curtain!”
    “Faith is believing in things you know ain’t true.”

  515. on 25 Aug 2011 at 9:33 pm 515.Scotty-MB said …

    “Why won’t God Heal Amputees?” does not explore the existence of God as claimed. Rather, it seems to me this blog uses prejudgements to state that God does not exist and therefore all who believe that God _does_ exist are morons.

    If A, then B
    If B, then C

    Hmm… Let’s talk “Logic” here shall we? You seem to be a fan of it, even though you are constantly misusing it to make your points. Here are the common fallacies in arguing a case:

    Overgeneralizations – conclusions based on too little evidence.
    Circular Reasoning – supporting your opinion by restating it in other words.
    Either-Or Fallacy – assuming that a complex question has only two possible answers.
    Cause and Effect Fallacy – saying one event caused another just because it came before.
    Loaded Language – words or language meant to appeal to emotions rather than logic.
    Bandwagon – you should do it because everybody’s doing it and you want to belong, don’t you?

    OK, so in the case of “Does God exist?” Have you really examined _all_ the evidence, or are you drawing conclusions from your own life and making a “Generalization?” Just because _you_ haven’t seen Him, or heard from Him, or touched Him, or smelled Him (you get the idea) does not mean that you can off-handedly ignore the witness accounts of billions of other human beings. That’s right, billions of Christians over 2,000 years, starting with eye-witnesses of Jesus life, death and resurrection.

    As for the second type of fallacious argument, let’s see circular reasoning, using silly arguments to prove a point, such as “Praying to a jug of milk.” I pray to a jug of milk, nothing happens. Nothing happens when I pray to God, so God is no more powerful than a jug of milk. That’s just silly – and circular in my opinion.

    Next: Either/Or. It’s either one or the other. Either God proves Himself to me or He is not real. Sorry again, most Christians, as I said, have never heard a direct “proof” of God either. We are not convinced by mere “experiential” or anecdotal evidence as you say either. On the contrary, quite interestingly enough, we are proved right by the condition of our own changed hearts. That’s not “experience” in the strict sense that we “felt” something, rather we are changed and our view of the world changes (and we change outwardly as a result also) so that others might perceive “change” in us.

    Cause and Effect. You state that when you pray, nothing happens, and therefore there is no God. I have told you, your evidence alone is insufficient proof since there is a preponderance of evidence against you. Besides, you do not pray with a “believing” heart as one other person has recently pointed out to you.

    Loaded language: Your analyses are indeed loaded with catch phrases and cliche’ language to describe “God” and who you think He might be. I can tell you until I’m blue in the face that God is not like us, we are a little bit like Him is all, because we were created in “His image” but only in the spiritual sense. Since you have no concept of what a Spiritual life is or might be, there is no way you could possibly comprehend God, or any conception of Him that would be near truth.

    Bandwagon – simply appealing to masses and saying “Don’t be a fool and believe in something you can’t see or hear or touch!” That will not get you anywhere. Christianity is not about “Religion” rather it’s about a relationship with the Creator of the Universe. We actually know Him, and His power, and you can too, but you must repent (change your mind) and accept the idea that He is who He said He is. It’s the only way my friend.

    I pray right now you might understand the error of your ways. I pray further that God would become real to you today, in some way so that you have “Proof” that you need. I will pray specifically believing that your car will break down tomorrow morning. Will that be proof enough?

    Jesus, I pray in Your name that You would turn this person to You. In Your mighty Name!

  516. on 25 Aug 2011 at 10:32 pm 516.Lou said …

    513.Scotty-MB said …

    “Why won’t God Heal Amputees?” does not explore the existence of God as claimed. Rather, it seems to me this blog uses prejudgements to state that God does not exist and therefore all who believe that God _does_ exist are morons.”

    Who wants to blow-down this house of cards?

  517. on 26 Aug 2011 at 4:05 pm 517.nony mouse said …

    What’s there to even blow down? It’s the same old straw men, shifting the burden of proof, appeal to popularity, special pleading, no true Scotsman, ad hominem, non sequiturs, and so on, as before.

    The poster appears to be complaining about starting from the position that god does not exist when, in fact, that is the null hypothesis – that is the starting point.

    The thrust of the argument appears to be that believing in a god makes one feel and act differently. However, that’s a tautology and applies equally well to belief in other gods or, indeed, invisible pink unicorns. It’s the same argument that is used by other religions to prove the existence of gods that the poster likely doesn’t believe in.

    So, Scotty, where’s your proof that your god exists, and why doesn’t he heal amputees?

  518. on 26 Aug 2011 at 4:15 pm 518.Pryor said …

    “Praying to a jug of milk.” I pray to a jug of milk, nothing happens. Nothing happens when I pray to God, so God is no more powerful than a jug of milk. That’s just silly – and circular in my opinion.

    What you don’t understand Scotty is that it is OK to argue against God with circular reasoning.

  519. on 26 Aug 2011 at 7:42 pm 519.nony mouse said …

    How is saying that the effects of praying to a jug of milk are indistinguishable from praying to God, a circular argument? In answering, remember that one of the immutable attributes assigned to the god of the bible is that he answers prayers.

  520. on 26 Aug 2011 at 8:24 pm 520.DPK said …

    It’s not so much that “nothing happens” it’s that the things that do happen happen in exactly the same manner as they do when you pray to a god. Sometimes you get what you ask, sometimes you don’t, and sometimes you get something else… that covers every possible outcome.
    It doesn’t prove “God is no more powerful than a jug of milk..” it only proves that the concept of an all powerful god who answers prayers is not true. It doesn’t even “prove” that god doesn’t exist, but it does dispel the myth of god answering prayers as most believers will tell you he does.
    Personally, I’m not a fan of milk. I pray to my lawn mower and get the exact same outcomes, yes, no, maybe… try it.. works like a charm! Mine’s a Lawn Boy, so your results may vary… but I’ll bet you $100 if you pray to your lawn mower for something, you will either get what you ask for, or you won’t… or perhaps you’ll get something different. Let Lawn Boy into your heart and I promise you your prayers will be answered!
    D

  521. on 26 Aug 2011 at 9:58 pm 521.Lou said …

    518.DPK said …

    “Let Lawn Boy into your heart and I promise you your prayers will be answered!”

    LAWN BOY WILL NOT BE TESTED! DO NOT TEST LAWN BOY!

  522. on 27 Aug 2011 at 12:28 am 522.DPK said …

    I would never be so bold as to test Lawn Boy, but once I had an outbreak of crabgrass… I bought some scotts anti-crabgrass stuff, but I also said a prayer to lawn-boy and in 3 weeks, the crab grass was GONE! GONE, I tell you! You think that’s just a co-incidence??? LOL…. of course not.
    I’m just sayin’

  523. on 27 Aug 2011 at 12:57 am 523.godskingdomway said …

    Lou said…’If Satan and man have free will, and if Satan causes man to be evil, then who caused Satan to be evil? God?”No you just said we all have free will so satan created his evil attitude.and you thought god created all things.Yes he created everything that is good and satan is the father of the lie and the first manslayer he has created everything bad along with inherited imperfection we gain through adam because of satan.

  524. on 27 Aug 2011 at 1:51 am 524.Fairy Tale Bible said …

    Did Adam and Eve exist?

    No.

    Then again, George Washington didn’t cut down a cherry tree, and Paul Revere never yelled, “The British are coming,” either.

    So what’s the big deal? We regularly embellish actual events (in the case of Revere) or invent them (as with Washington) to point toward a larger symbolic truth. Why, then, should anyone be dismayed that all the archeological, historical and, most importantly, genomic evidence ever collected points to the implausibility that two persons named Adam and Eve once lived in a paradisiacal garden and gave birth to all humanity? Because the recent hubbub about Adam and Eve — and the increasing number of Evangelical Christian scholars who don’t read their story literally — isn’t actually about our supposed ancestral grandparents. Rather, it’s about authority, insecurity and the fear of chaos.

    Biblical Authority

    Fundamentalist Christians regularly give two significant reasons for accepting the story of Adam and Eve as historically and scientifically accurate. The first deals with the integrity of the Bible itself. If one element of the biblical story isn’t historically accurate, the argument runs, then you can’t trust any of it. I call this the “link chain” notion of biblical authority because, as with chains, the Bible is suddenly only as strong as its weakest link. Creation of the world in seven days? Absolutely. Jonah in the belly of a whale for three? No problem. And Joshua stopping the sun in its tracks for one? Why not? Doubt any one of these stories, and the veracity of whole Bible, according to conservatives, vanishes into thin air.

    The difficulty with this view is that the Bible never presents itself as a scientific or historical textbook. Rather, it is a collection of testimony, confessions of faith made by persons who had been so gripped by their experiences of God they had to share them using whatever literary and cultural devices were at hand. Poetry, metaphor, simile, myth, parable, story, advice, analogy — all these and more are employed by biblical authors who were more poets than historians, more muses than scientists, and more interested in faithful persuasion than rational explanation.

    Theological Insecurity

    The second argument against reading Adam and Eve as mythic story rather than historical account is that later theologians, most notably the Apostle Paul, base some of their theology on the Adam and Eve account. Lose Eden, the theory goes, and you’ve lost Paul as well. This I name the “house of cards” understanding of theology, because if any single element of a larger theological argument appears flimsy then the entire confession is at risk. This creates for conservatives tremendous insecurity about the validity and integrity of Christian theology that must be kept at bay at all costs.

    The Apostle Paul, however, betrays no such insecurity. Striving to describe mysteries that surpass him, Paul presses language to its limits in order to witness to God’s work in Christ. Paul is not trying to explain divinity but rather pay homage to it. For this reason he reaches for familiar stories, symbols and characters to give voice to his testimony of how the man crucified as a criminal unexpectedly emerges as God’s divine solution to our human plight. Working at times with Adam and at others with Abraham, drawing comparisons to the sacrificial system of Judaism at some points and Greco-Roman house ethics at others, Paul stretches language and metaphor to render God’s accomplishment as vivid and accessible as possible rather than reduce it to historical or even theological formulas. Jesus is neither a data point in Paul’s larger rational argument nor a cog in some machinery of salvation; rather, he is the narrative linchpin and interpretive key that holds together and makes sense of all of Israel’s stories and, indeed, all the stories of the world.

    Fundamentalist Fear

    Make no mistake, however: There is something much deeper at stake in these arguments for those who defend a literal reading of the Bible. In its bluntest form, it goes like this: Lose confidence in Adam and you might as well give up on Jesus as well. Because if Genesis’ account of Eden is mythic rather than historical, then how can you trust any of the Gospel reports about Jesus. Comparisons with Washington and Revere and countless others we might offer fall short at this point, as we’re not talking merely about the father of our country or a silversmith turned patriot. This is Jesus, after all, the One confessed by Christians to be the Son of God. And so here lies the great fear that gnaws at the heart of fundamentalism: How can I believe — in the Bible, Jesus and God (probably in that order) — unless I know for certain that all these things happened just as they were told?

    Beyond overlooking that there are different kinds of writing in the same book – at turns more mythic, poetic, or historical – this insecurity-driven view gravely confuses faith and knowledge. Faith, according to the Letter to the Hebrews, “is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen” (11:1). This implies that there is an irreducible element of tension inherent in the life of faith that literalist readings of the Bible attempt to dispel. Across its pages, however, the Bible calls the faithful not to the safe haven of absolute knowledge but instead beckons believers into the stormier but far more interesting waters of faith, hope and love. Where knowledge demands cognitive assent, faith calls for equal measures of courage and imagination. Faith, that is, invites us to embrace mystery rather than merely solve a puzzle.

    Fact And Fiction

    Throughout Tim Burton’s “Big Fish,” Will Bloom demands the truth about his father Edward. Thus far he has only heard various and far-fetched stories his father has told, many of which don’t add up. “Most men, they’ll tell you a story straight through,” his father tells him. “It won’t be complicated, but it won’t be interesting either.” But Will wants the facts, believing that only in this way will he know the truth about his father.

    In particular, he wants to know where his dad was the day he was born. Near the end of the film, the Bloom’s family doctor lays it out:

    Your mother came in about three in the afternoon. Her neighbor drove her, on account of your father was on business in Wichita. You were born a week early, but there were no complications. It was a perfect delivery. Now, your father was sorry to miss it, but it wasn’t the custom for the men to be in the room for deliveries then, so I can’t see as it would have been much different had he been there. And that’s the real story of how you were born. Not very exciting, is it? And I suppose if I had to choose between the true version and an elaborate one involving a fish and a wedding ring, I might choose the fancy version.

    By the end of the film, Will recognizes that his father is the stories that he has told. Fact and fiction, actual detail and fanciful elaboration, fallible man and larger-than-life myth — together they combine to offer something larger than mere chronology, giving Will a glimpse of truth.

    Adam And Eve Redux

    So back to Adam and Eve. There are, of course, two creation accounts in Genesis. The first (1:1-2:3) pulses with the divine cadence of orderly creation, setting the rhyme and meter for understanding the harmonious ebb and flow of work and rest, creation and goodness, male and female. It was most likely the work of a priest, attuned to the rhythm of the week and the worship of the creator God. The second story (2:4-3:24) undertakes no less than to portray the condition of humanity and to address questions as sublime as the complimentary differences between men and women and as problematic as why this good life is so marred by strife, discontent and hardship.

    The differences between the two are as palpable as they important for those with the courage to notice, revealing the distinct and complimentary confessions the ancient Israelites offered about their confidence in God and the nature and destiny of humanity. Yet read these stories literally and all the artistic nuance and poetic beauty of these distinct confessions is immediately flattened by the need to have them conform to post-Enlightenment ideas of rational verifiability imported in the mid-19th century to repel attempts to read the Bible as a historical document.

    If, however, we look to Genesis not for historical datum from which to construct a pseudo-scientific cosmology we find a different story all together. It’s a story about the insecurity that is endemic to humanity and the ever-present temptation to refuse the identity that comes from the vulnerability of authentic relationship in favor of defining ourselves over and against each other. Read this way, the story of Eden is the history of humanity writ small, and Adam and Eve are, indeed, the parents of us all. It’s a more complicated story, for sure, than we’ve sometimes been offered, but it is also more interesting and compelling and, ultimately, one I’m inclined to believe.

  525. on 27 Aug 2011 at 2:54 am 525.nony mouse said …

    In fairness to those that have been chided for not posting the source for their huge cut & pastes, post 522 seems to be a recent article in the Huffington Post by David Lose. For what it’s worth, the author is a theist.

  526. on 02 Sep 2011 at 4:49 am 526.P. Shel said …

    How can you hate something you do not believe in?
    It seems petty obvious that you do not believe in God yet you hate him, that seems illogical.
    Since you don’t believe why are you wasting your time and money on this blog?
    I am curious as to what belief in God has to do with political parties since both Republicans and Democrats believe and disbelieve in God.
    I am also curious to know whether you have ever read the Sermon on the Mount?
    Please put away your hatred and find the love and salvation of the Lord.

  527. on 02 Sep 2011 at 12:20 pm 527.Observer said …

    #524 P. Shel The hate is directed at those who, despite the opportunity and ability to learn and better themselves, chose to retain silly childish beliefs such as Christianity and who by existing in American society, and more broadly liberal society at large, pollute political discourse and impair the development of our society. Despite the lies of Christian apologists, the United States was not founded by religious men. Spinoza, Hume, et al. figured much prominently in the intellectual tradition of the US. It might be enlightening to look at the quote of the day section of the WWGHA forum. I think it is under the general religion section. You will be surprised at the pithy atheistic quotes from the prominent founding fathers and American Revolutionaries.

  528. on 03 Sep 2011 at 4:32 pm 528.Karina said …

    “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?” 2 Corinthians 6:14

    This is for all those here who believe that God isn’t real. If there is anyone here that can show me a better way of life then prove it to me. My God has picked me up from the ashes and breathed new life into me. Jesus has magnified his glory in my life and I owe him all praise. Jesus is the way and the light, if you are all in the darkness who are you to lead if you yourselves are blind. I pray that the Lord softens your hearts and that you allow Him to enter. I promise you that He is the only way. My love for Jesus is not a religion but a relationship. I have chosen to live a life of purity. It was not chosen for me.

    I do promise you all though, your day will come when God will make you fall to your knees and recognize that he is King and from your mouth you will utter words to Jesus for help.

    In Jesus name I pray. Amen!

  529. on 03 Sep 2011 at 4:44 pm 529.Karina said …

    This is for Godskingdomway

    As a follower of God I have to tell you that I don’t agree with what you’re doing here. The Lord’s word was not created to argue but to guide us. Pray that one day they will recognize their blasphemy and they recognize that the Lord is King of Kings. Bless them even if they reject it and leave it in the hands of God. He will take care of them.

  530. on 03 Sep 2011 at 9:03 pm 530.Observer said …

    #526 When I was a kid in the great American Midwest, we may have yolked a few cars around Halloween as in “egged”. I you were to add an “l” in the fifth word of your quote in the third position, you probably describe us pretty well.

    As for the other crap you are writing about the Wish Fulfilling Jewish Zombie, you probably are not completely stupid based on your writing, but you are filled to the brim with sentimental delusion. Really. Save yourself, hit Dawkins’ website read some classical literature and philosophy, and be done with this nonsense.

    #527 You leave Godskingdomway alone! Few can better express the true meaning and spirit of xtian belief.

  531. on 11 Sep 2011 at 6:42 pm 531.Pinky said …

    Thanks this blog and the site are both excellent! I link to this on my blog post today.

    Cheers,
    Pinky

  532. on 11 Sep 2011 at 9:17 pm 532.Ted said …

    “hit Dawkins’ website read some classical literature and philosophy,”

    No, this is the worst thing you can do. Dawkins is a bitter curmudgeon attempting to fill his life mission. Try reading real science and then connect the dots.

    The connection between science and god is quite obvious. Science has never disproved God. It only strengthen the truth that God is real and loves mankind. Science today has done more to prove God’s existence more than anytime in history. To quote Laplace, no further hypothesis needed.

  533. on 12 Sep 2011 at 3:59 am 533.Observer said …

    #530 Ted At least you can write a complete sentence. In case you didn’t notice, Dawkins not only writes real science, he is a scientist. What is more, he has a pretty good education having gone to Balliol, was tutored by a Nobel prize winner, who was also his graduate advisor. He even taught at Berkeley for a couple years before going back to Oxford where he eventually received an endowed chair.

    As for you trying to read “real science and then connect the dots”, “trying” is probably the operative term here. But what “real science”, by which you no doubt mean a peer-reviewed journal, do you suggest?

    Science has never disproved the existence of elves, pixies, or smurfs. And while you are making up our reading list, please also show us where Science has done something to support the existence of “God” and even better the wish fulfilling Jewish zombie son of his (please give a real journal and not some hash from an xtian diploma mill).

  534. on 12 Sep 2011 at 4:06 am 534.Observer said …

    And Ted, are you trying to be ironic when you attempt to quote Laplace? Laplace of course famously said when questioned why he never mentioned “The Creator” in one of his most important and comprehensive works replied “I had no need for that hypothesis.”

    Yet another great mind in the Enlightenment who did not have time for such bullshit and nonsense.

  535. on 12 Sep 2011 at 12:54 pm 535.Lou (DFW) said …

    530.Ted said …

    “The connection between science and god is quite obvious. Science has never disproved God. It only strengthen the truth that God is real and loves mankind.”

    A total lie. Please show us how god loves “mankind,” even without science.

  536. on 12 Sep 2011 at 7:41 pm 536.Ted said …

    Actually Laplace was a Roman Catholic and was pointing out he didn’t need to bring God into the hypothesis. True enough, God already set the laws in motion and was acknowledged as creator.

    Nice true by the Observer but he is the real liar here.

  537. on 12 Sep 2011 at 8:31 pm 537.Lou (DFW) said …

    534.Ted said …

    “Actually Laplace was a Roman Catholic and was pointing out he didn’t need to bring God into the hypothesis.”

    Ted, thanks for telling us what Laplace really meant. Except that’s not what he said. But, is it possible that he meant that there was no need for a hypothesis that god created anything and everything?

    “True enough, God already set the laws in motion and was acknowledged as creator.”

    By whom? Laplace?

    “Nice true by the Observer but he is the real liar here.”

    Funny, because god is a lie.

  538. on 12 Sep 2011 at 10:29 pm 538.Observer said …

    #534 Ted- Everyone in France was Roman Catholic at that time, except for a few Jews, the Protestants had been driven out. (In fact, I think to this day you must register your religion there as you do in Germany.) That is meaningless.

    You are either ignorant of, or are trying to waltz around Laplace’s demon: He posited that if there was a being to set everything in the universe into motion from the largest to smallest objects precisely and with intent then the universe is completely deterministic. You might also note that he was a pioneer of probability theory which you may also realize deals with randomness. That would seem to be an unlikely direction of enquiry for the supposed theist you purport him to be.

    Sorry. He was certainly part of the Enlightenment.

  539. on 14 Sep 2011 at 4:39 am 539.Maria said …

    I just have one quick question. When you speak about the bible on your site, you mention that it is totally sexist and incorrect from the beginning to the end. However, this shows a very narrow view of the culture at the time. To adress your point about slaves, slavery in that time is understood differntly than slavery now. Slavery then was when someone could not pay debts or had no money, they would sell themselves to someone for a certian amount of time and in return, the person who owned them would take care of all their needs and the needs of their family. When they referred to beating slaves, it was simply a type of corperal punishment and considered correct at the time. Much of what we do today in our society will probably be considered cruel and unusual a hundred years from now. When someone sold themselves as a slave, they were guerrenteed their own survival and the survival of their familes, rather than starving to death and dying on the streets like many people today do. Their children didn’t have to become prosititutes so their suffering relitives could eat. Slavery was basically a job with a contract. There were actually laws in the bible about the way you could and could not treat your slaves. If you’d like, and when I have more time, I can discuss the sexist aspects as well. See, if you understand these things, they really do make more sense than you say.

  540. on 14 Sep 2011 at 5:09 am 540.Severin said …

    537 Maria
    “However, this shows a very narrow view of the culture at the time.”

    But, Maria, Bible was not presented as a book from which we will learn history.

    It was presented as GOD’S WORD, a source of “absolute truth”, a source of moral rules we have all to obey and to follow, a GUIDANCE for our lives.

    Now you kindly find something in the Bible that I/you should obey and follow, and tell us what could it be.
    WHAT parts/verses o the Bible should I accept and follow?

    IF Bible is god’s word, an allmighty god should have known that slavery was BAD, prostitution was BAD, stoning was BAD, he should have offered ALTERNATIVE solutions and direct people to something better than he did in Bible.

    He should have anticipated human society will not stay on Biblical level!
    Moreover, HE should have been the spiritus movens of moral progress.
    I don’t see anythink like that in the Bible. There is NO anything like: “People, you have slavery, but it is BAD, let’s see how to correct this injustice”.

    If god ORDERED something, and expected people to obey him, why, the hell didn’t he ORDER them to cancel slavery, stoning, prostitution…

  541. on 14 Sep 2011 at 1:15 pm 541.Observer said …

    #537 Maria- I am sure slavery was a delight. As in, anywhere in the Roman Empire anything could be done to a slave. You could strangle, or crucify at will.

    What you are missing is that times were barbaric, and that things only made dramatic improvements as the world became more enlightened and secular. I will grant that the various churches let the cat out of the bag by teaching literacy outside the clergy; that was the end of the Dark Ages. Nevertheless, as power in society shifted from the clergy, the state of man improved.

    Don’t waste your time on the nonsense in the Bible. “It is the most important book in history!” I will not deny that, but it is also how the last vestiges of the Roman Empire live on.

  542. on 14 Sep 2011 at 3:25 pm 542.Lou (DFW) said …

    537.Maria said …

    “I just have one quick question.”

    What is it?

  543. on 14 Sep 2011 at 5:19 pm 543.Dm said …

    Maria you are correct. Remember will reject truth and sound doctrine. Just as in the days of Christ you will be hated for a stand on truth.

  544. on 29 Sep 2011 at 6:22 pm 544.Mitch Brown said …

    Hello, My name is Mitch Brown, I am a sophomore attending a small private high school in Houston Texas.. I ive been a christian since July 5 2010, I find this website incredibly fascinating, along with its topics, comments and posts. What I’m getting at is that I would like to know why so many people feel this way about religion, I mean you have to have a lot of faith to deny such powerful things, I would like to hear everyone’s opinion in this world. If you would like to please email me, i want to learn what the world thinks, Mitchell.brown@hchs-community.org (Im not trying to convert anyone just fyi, i only wish to learn.)
    Good day and God bless!

  545. on 29 Sep 2011 at 6:36 pm 545.Lou (DFW) said …

    542.Mitch Brown said …

    “I mean you have to have a lot of faith to deny such powerful things…”

    What powerful things?

  546. on 07 Oct 2011 at 11:27 pm 546.Mitch Brown said …

    Lou, answering your question…
    if you would like a scientific answer then look at the beginnings of creation, (or evolution) the story of squishy the wonder blob eating his neighbors and forgetting to digest them and a billion years later his neighbors are a squirrel and a whale, or even the smallest cell structure, every organelle, molecule, EVERYTHING has an extremely specific job and does everything better than a well oiled machine, many people say its by pure chance that that happened. Or even the earth itself, our perfect conditions for supporting life, air, water, our distance from the sun… everything seems like it has purpose and was placed there carefully.

    the spiritual answer would be first stated with a question, what is it that makes you believe God is a lie?
    i used to see religion as a cult full of liars, hieratics, and assholes. God showed me his love and his awesomeness through a serious of places id never think to find him. so what ever it is that has made you resent God, i hope that pain goes away.
    and lastly look into history,
    the bible is the single most banned book, but most published, abundant and read book in history. people have and still continue to smuggle them everywhere. i think theres a reason for that. Original copies of the new testament that have been found number over three thousand, more than any other ancient writtings… i think that might get some point across.
    any other questions you have here are some websites that might help…
    http://www.pleaseconvinceme.com
    http://www.answeres4atheist.com
    sorry for the long comment. Good day and God bless

  547. on 07 Oct 2011 at 11:37 pm 547.Mitch Brown said …

    A question for everyone, Why is it that we will blame every tear on God, but we will not blame him for every smile?

  548. on 08 Oct 2011 at 12:29 am 548.fuck you said …

    half of these comments dont make any sense. i assume that the majority of the people that have commented have never even read the bible. if you have read it, it would answer half these stupid comments
    thanks and go fuck yourselves.

  549. on 08 Oct 2011 at 1:37 am 549.Observer said …

    Mitch- Is this familiar to you?

    http://www.houstonchristian.org/about-hchs/Who-We-Are/index.aspx

    If this represents the tripe you have been fed throughout your life, and your parents are so spectacularly ignorant and backward to send you to such a place, then this website must come as quite a surprise to you. (You might also want to spell heretic.)

    You should look at a couple of my posts above. The Bible is a manifestation of the lingering power of the Roman Empire and vulnerability of humans to be seduced by wishful thinking. For the most part, opiates have been banned, or looked down upon since they first hit the scene in 1BCE Rome. They are still with us, and likely will always be with us. Why? Well, they make us feel better, for a while. Your xtian beliefs make people who are either psychologically impaired, or stupid feel better.

    Christianity is a popular religion. So what? Coca Cola is a very popular drink like the Bible is a popular book. McDonald’s is popular food in the same way as Coke. Neither Coke nor McDonald’s is nutritious; they are empty calories. Christianity is the same- immediately fulfilling and ultimately not healthy.

    Despite the fictions common from your part of the world, and no doubt the idiots who are your teachers if my guess is correct about your high school, the men who founded this country were at best culturally Christian. Read more on this website, google Richard Dawkins, and the delightful Christopher Hitchens. You might also want to look at Sam Harris too. Dawkin’s website is a treasure.

    Also, remember, every good idea or movement in history was founded by a minority. If you are really looking for security in numbers, you might also note that in other developed economies, most the folk are secular. The statistics get skewed because most countries have traditionally recorded folks as the religion of their parents who were likewise recorded as their parents, etc.

    SO as a 15-yo boy, it is admirable you are flexing your brain a bit by looking at this website. It is daunting to go against one’s parents and teachers, but read what is available in the world, think for yourself, learn a bit of critical thinking ( your posts indicate this is sorely lacking ), and do what a 15-yo boy should be doing, snogging and getting in the knickers of the girls in your age cohort. I can also vouch that the innocent act will often get some traction with the older girls/women if done discretely. Avoid those younger than yourself until you are in your 30s and in your 40s by all means. Good luck.

  550. on 08 Oct 2011 at 1:45 am 550.Observer said …

    #544 Mitch- One more thing, how does a 1CE Jewish bastard, a mamser, who supposedly becomes a wish fulfilling zombie warrant worship? Think about it. It is the craziest nonsense ever, but it would be appealing to illiterate slaves in ancient Rome. Think of the crap people believe, like the faculty and trustees of the school in my previous post. Grow a brain and a pair.

  551. on 08 Oct 2011 at 4:02 am 551.Mitch Brown said …

    haha, Observer….
    couple of points, number one, not the best speller and i apologize for that
    two, never chose that highschool, my parents did. just my email address, would not use that place as an example of a good christian community..
    Thirdly was Dawkins the scientist that was in Ben Stein’s movie “no room for intelligence”?
    and when you said a “jewish bastard, a mamser, who supposedly becomes a wish fulfilling zombie warrant worship?” if your talking about the resurrection of christ then yes it is crazy… but its true. Paul in the book of corinthians says that the story of christ is a fools tale that only a fool could believe, but you are not a fool if you have experienced the Father’s love. oh and Jesus was not a bastard, he has a father, he refers to his father several times…

    and when you say grow a brain and a pair… im on this website to see what the rest of the world says about christianity, not to test my faith or convert others, im no theological genius, but i know my passages and some evidence. and im a 16 year old christian asking some hardcore atheist about their religion, some who are probably twice my age and have gone through this a hundred times, im not trying to start fist fights here, just trying to learn.
    lastly are you British? because ive never heard anyone in my life use the term “knickers” or “snogging”

  552. on 08 Oct 2011 at 4:08 am 552.DPK said …

    “even the smallest cell structure, every organelle, molecule, EVERYTHING has an extremely specific job and does everything better than a well oiled machine, many people say its by pure chance that that happened…”

    This is a simple fallacy that you have been spoon fed by those ill informed and ill educated. If you go to a real university and study real evolutionary biology, you will discover that “chance” has absolutely nothing to do with it. The fact of evolution and natural selection has nothing to do with chance… at all.

    “even the earth itself, our perfect conditions for supporting life, air, water, our distance from the sun… everything seems like it has purpose and was placed there carefully.”

    Seems that way. But this is nothing but a puddle marveling at the fact that the hole in the ground in which it lives fits it’s shape so perfectly. Life evolved to fit the environment. If the environment where not what it is, life would have evolved differently, or not at all. Have you ANY idea of how large the universe is? How many trillions and trillions of stars in billions and billions of galaxies evolving over billions and billions of years? Large enough that almost any convergence of conditions you could imagine becomes almost a certainty.

    “A question for everyone, Why is it that we will blame every tear on God, but we will not blame him for every smile?”

    I find just the opposite. I find that believers give credit to god for everything good, and no blame for anything bad. You give credit to god for sunshine and apples… but not for smallpox and dysentery. When someone is cured of cancer, you praise god for his goodness. When someone dies a horrible painful death, you say it is “god’s will”.

  553. on 08 Oct 2011 at 9:53 am 553.Lou (DFW) said …

    544.Mitch Brown said …

    “even the smallest cell structure, every organelle, molecule, EVERYTHING has an extremely specific job and does everything better than a well oiled machine”

    First of all, none of what you wrote is evidence for god. It’s only your opinion and belief.

    As for “a well oiled machine,” that’s hysterical. Life is anything but a “well oiled machine.” Most life is extinct or will be. The human body itself has all kinds of problems. It’s ridiculous to think that life, or this planet for that matter, was designed by anything intelligent when it’s such a piss-poor design. If anything, all the things you mentioned are evidence that there’s NOT a god-creator.

  554. on 08 Oct 2011 at 12:01 pm 554.Horatiio said …

    Mitch

    I applaud you investigating what others believe. I was an atheist early in life through college but discovered the truth of Christ and the foolishness of atheism. Best thing that ever happened.

    My discovery came about through a combination of science and my own experience with God.

    I can sum up this blog for you. They will continue to claim there is no God but when backed into a corner claim they just “lack belief”. Be warned, the atheists on this site will call you every name in the book.

    They will also tell you your experience with God is not valid proof and creation is not valid proof. They like to lay the ground rules. I will point out they believe in love and Socrates although neither fit their ground rules.

    The best to you Mitch.
    as your discovery tour continues.

  555. on 08 Oct 2011 at 1:08 pm 555.MrQ said …

    hor

    I can sum up this blog for you. They will continue to claim there is no God but when backed into a corner claim they just “lack belief”

    Really, Hor? I seem to remember a recent thread where you asked for some bullet points on evolution. When you were backed into the corner you suddenly turned mute.

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog/?p=1999#comments

    Mitch, if you’re interested, see post 17/18 and beyond. THAT is how Hor operates.

  556. on 08 Oct 2011 at 2:59 pm 556.Horatiio said …

    Mr Q

    Mute? Lol!! Hardly!

    I still await the bullet points.

    Mitch we are awaiting the facts that support macroevolutikm and stand up to the modern scientific method. Atheist are materialist and all things must meet this crireria

  557. on 08 Oct 2011 at 3:14 pm 557.DPK said …

    Mitch… good for you for taking the initiative to learn and investigate on your own, and for asking questions. For each of us, the conclusions drawn will be based on our own interpretation of the evidence, and by whatever “personal experiences” have shaped our lives.

    Remember a few facts… the dogma you recite about the certainty of the resurrection comes from what? An ancient account written by superstitious people almost 400 years after the supposed event and then edited and altered thousands of time over centuries. Hardly reliable. But the stories persist…. but remember, over a billion people on the planet believe that Mohammad physically rode to heaven on a winged horse. You don’t believe THAT, do you? But it is also in a holy book that has endured for centuries.

    Creation seems now to be the last resort for theists to claim as evidence for the existence of a god. The origin of life, for example, is often sited and being “inconceivable” or “impossible” without a magical being behind it. But look critically at the history of similar claims and things that were said to be impossible without a god behind them… natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, even thunder and lightning) stars and celestial motion, infectious diseases. The world was once considered flat and at the center of the universe, and it was deemed “impossible” for it to be otherwise. Look at where human understanding has taken us.. even into the realm of relativity and quantum physics.. and everywhere we go was turf once occupied by gods who no longer exist.
    So, draw your own conclusions, but look at the track record and ask yourself what is more likely. That everything has a natural explanation, even if it is not currently fully understood, or that there is a magical, invisible puppet master pulling the strings?
    Lastly, ask yourself about people who claim a “personal experience with god”. This cannot be dismissed out of hand. Many people claim such an experience. Perhaps you have had one as well. But ask yourself if it is possible that such experiences can be real, but internal? Remember, thousands of people report similar spiritual experiences, but with DIFFERENT gods than yours… or even no gods at all. Buddhists, who are atheistic, also describe deep spiritual experiences through meditation and self awareness. Now ask yourself, if there were but one true god with one true message, would you not expect there to be but one true experience? Would we not have ONE religion that clearly was true? Since it is obvious we do not, just ask yourself, why?

    Good luck on your journey. Keep an open mind and question everything. Do not accept answers that are based on “just because”, or “it says so in the bible”. If something doesn’t make sense… question it and demand a rational answer. For starts, go through this very website and write down your best answers for every one of the challenges presented here. If you can do that without resorting to dogma, rationalizations, or convoluted thought processes, then by all means come back and share your answers with us.
    D

  558. on 08 Oct 2011 at 3:47 pm 558.MrQ said …

    I still await the bullet points.

    See the link from #553.

  559. on 08 Oct 2011 at 3:48 pm 559.MrQ said …

    #554, that is. Bullet points provided. Let’s discuss.

  560. on 08 Oct 2011 at 4:52 pm 560.DPK said …

    Hor… in addition to Mr. Q’s response to your challenge, I ALSO posted your requested “bullet points” to which you ALSO never responded.
    http://evolutionlist.blogspot.com/2009/02/macroevolution-examples-and-evidence.html

    Take your fingers out of your ears and stop lying to everyone.

    Mitch.. if you are still reading, ask your self why your fellow theists Horattio… who “discovered the truth of Christ and the foolishness of atheism. Best thing that ever happened.” Needs to lie continuously here in order to try and make his position seem valid. It doesn’t say much for your point in a debate if it is based on deliberate deception, does it?

  561. on 08 Oct 2011 at 7:55 pm 561.Horatiio said …

    Mr Q DPK Lou!

    LOL!! a blog? You are so unfamiliar with what you believe to be fact you cannot provide a few bullet points on your own?

    I think you don’t really know why you believe you just do because you do not question anything. Great advice, you should follow it. I could post a link to a blog too, but I will not.

    OK, go to your blog and pull out a few examples. We will then put them through the scientific method and see how they hold up.

    As for my supposed lies, you and Lou and Q must prove this claim.

    I do agree with DPK on questioning everything. That is the reason I no longer buy into the atheist dogma.

  562. on 08 Oct 2011 at 8:10 pm 562.MrQ said …

    Hor

    I do agree with DPK on questioning everything. That is the reason I no longer buy into the atheist dogma.

    That’s how I became an atheist – Asking lots of questions. I thought you chose the god and the Jewish Zombie because you were “going down the wrong path” with your excessive previous lifestyle. Some call it Alcoholics Anonymous. BTW, The only “atheist dogma” that I am aware of is that there is no god. Of course, I will change my mind when you prove ANY god’s existence.

    OK, go to your blog and pull out a few examples.

    Are you REALLY that thick? The link (see above) is for entries you and I have made on THIS BLOG!!!

  563. on 08 Oct 2011 at 9:11 pm 563.Suh said …

    #560 @ Mr Q

    Are you really that thick? Horatio’s post was to you 3 musketeers if you read the beginning and he was referring to DPK’s link.

    If you would post under (1) name you could cut back on the confusion.

  564. on 08 Oct 2011 at 9:30 pm 564.DPK said …

    “Horatio’s post was to you 3 musketeers if you read the beginning and he was referring to DPK’s link.”

    …and conveniently ignoring Q’s.. as he is so apt to do.

    In case you the point escaped anyone… Hor has once again dodged answering any questions.

    LOL does not qualify as a response, except perhaps on the playground in the 3rd grade.

    Not gonna answer, huh Hor? No surprise there.

  565. on 08 Oct 2011 at 9:58 pm 565.MrQ said …

    Suh,
    At the beginning I see

    Mr Q DPK Lou!

    . A missive directed at me, DPK, and Lou.
    What do you see suh?

    Once again, Hor (or for that matter, how about you Suh) go to the link and start at post #17/18:

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog/?p=1999#comments

    Something tells me we’ll get another duck, weave, and dodge. And no discussion. Sad but all we will see another LOL.

  566. on 08 Oct 2011 at 10:01 pm 566.Lou (DFW) said …

    559.Horatiio said …

    “As for my supposed lies, you and Lou and Q must prove this claim.

    I do agree with DPK on questioning everything. That is the reason I no longer buy into the atheist dogma.”

    No, we don’t have to prove that “claim.” First of all, Hor’s lies are here for all to read. For example, “atheist dogma” is one of Hor’s common lies.

    Second, the purpose of this blog is to explore God and religion. It’s not about discussing creation, Big Bang, evolution, Hor’s lies, etc. In that regard, if anybody has to “prove” anything, then it’s the existence of god. Hor NEVER provides any evidence for his imaginary god, but he attempts to divert attention from his lack of evidence by lying about atheists and by discussing tangents to the subject. He is a fraud.

  567. on 08 Oct 2011 at 10:31 pm 567.40 year Atheist said …

    This process of a single cause producing all effects regardless of their properties is well outside the idea of cause and effect being the basis of scientific examination. If there is no possible negation or falsification of the idea, then it is a religious proposition, not a scientific hypothesis that is verifiable. If the concept cannot fail, then it cannot be verified either. Conversely, if the concept cannot be verified because it cannot fail, then there are no experiments that can produce anything but success, even when they produce no results at all.

    This is precisely the Atheist argument against prayer, and against God. Many choose not to accept the idea of a first cause on the basis of its failure to be a valid subject of scientific investigation. However, they have no similar qualms about evolution as a valid scientific proposition.

    Under scrutiny, evolution is a materialist religious proposition, without the possibility of failing any test of scientific experimentation. It satisfies, by definition, the Atheist requirement for “evidence in order to believe a thing”, because there is no possible evidence that can exist to disprove it. So in this sense it is a tautology, having been defined into success.

  568. on 08 Oct 2011 at 11:18 pm 568.MrQ said …

    40YA,

    evolution is a materialist religious proposition, without the possibility of failing any test of scientific experimentation. It satisfies, by definition, the Atheist requirement for “evidence in order to believe a thing”, because there is no possible evidence that can exist to disprove it.

    OK. Explain the Catholic churches acceptance of the theory. Ken Miller (Catholic) is A-OK with it. What about Francis Collins, a Baptist, (biologos.org) stance? Are they all Christians? YES. Do they know the theory of evolution to be true? YES.

    Examine closely what you stated:

    there is no possible evidence that can exist to disprove it

    It’s because the evidence is so strong and compelling for it. It’s akin to saying there is no possible evidence to dispute the existence of the Sun. Slowly, 40YA, you’re coming around. Congrats.

  569. on 08 Oct 2011 at 11:39 pm 569.Horatiio said …

    Mr Q, Lou or DPK (whoever you are),

    Its funny how you guys always seem to follow one another.

    You obviously have studied little science in your life so let me help. Theory, Scientific method and true are not synonymous. I never claimed macroevolution is not true. I claim it will not stand up to the modern scientific method. Therefore it is NOT proven. I have major issues and doubts with it but with God it certainly is possible.

    40YA just alluded to the same thing and you still don’t understand. Think MR Q or DPK or Lou and stop letting others do your thinking.

    Your fallacy of appeal to authority does not help your case. I can name a multitude of scientist who have problems with the theory. Does that count?

    Get off the blog and go do some homework. Come back when you have an intellectual case to make.

    I’m off for awhile. Take care fellas.

  570. on 09 Oct 2011 at 12:26 am 570.DPK said …

    “I’m off for awhile. Take care fellas.”

    Thank you Jesus!

  571. on 09 Oct 2011 at 2:52 am 571.Mitch Brown said …

    DPK.. thank you for the questions you’ve pointed out
    a few points my own…
    you said that the story of the resurrection was written 400 years after, not quite. a group of jews called Essenses, the were the guys who made the Dead Sea Scrolls, the wrote, along with several others, about the death of christ within weeks of it, if it was written 400 years after they probably would’ve mentioned the Roman invasion of Jerusalem which happened in 70AD, Jesus died in 33AD.The 400 year gap you might be thinking of is the Council of Nicea, where people got together in 325 AD and put together what books should be in the bible.
    and just a religion understanding, I dont think you can consider buddhist atheist…Mahayana Buddhist think Buddha was a God, and Theravada Buddhist dont think of him as a God, but believe in a heaven… So its a statement i would question. because Atheist is defined as one who does not believe in God or the theory of God. and on the science part that you pointed out, both parts have HUGE gaps, but both ideas fill in the gaps
    and Lou.. Have you ever heard of the book of Job? God does not create tragedies, but he does allow them to happen, No body but God knows his plans, and when I mentioned a well oiled machine, I meant a cell working together not life its self, life is rough dude, but doesnt mean theres not hope
    and MrQ, you said prove God’s existence… how is it that a book written over a period of supposedly 1500 years, give or take a few, always has the same theme of God’s glory and a messiah, or several ancient peoples all having writings or stories of a great flood all across the area.. i mean just saying man, gets ya thinking.
    Thank you DPK, youve giving me alot to think about and alot a read… thank you for helping me in this study.
    Good day and God bless, i truly do hope God shows himself in your life
    He really is there, I hope you find him one day

  572. on 09 Oct 2011 at 2:59 am 572.Mitch Brown said …

    And one last thing DPK,
    when you mention a puppet master controlling natural things, God did create those things, to do what they do, erupt and shake. cause he created them to do so, not to stand there and be dormant for eternity, and yes, I do believe in a book that has endured for centuries, for Mohammed… im not a muslim soo i dont acknowledge him as a prophet, no dis respect to muslims. but i do believe in the resurrection. just like billions of people believe that a man sat under a tree for 20 years, billions of people believe that we came from monkeys, and a billion people believe that everyone else’s beliefs are stupid, we all have our beliefs and we will always fight about whose right.

  573. on 09 Oct 2011 at 3:01 am 573.Observer said …

    #567 Hor- Please learn something honest during your sabbatical. Your thinking is terribly muddled. AND please stop corrupting young minds with xtian rubbish.

  574. on 09 Oct 2011 at 3:32 am 574.Observer said …

    #570 Mitch- The argument you are making is essentially nihilistic via the relativism you are arguing. It is wrong and stupid. People can learn, change their ways, and improve their lot. An example is clean water and the knowledge that spreading shit into water you drink is not a good thing. This knowledge, via a bit of education based on scientific discovery has helped billions. Why not believe that dispensing with the Great Wish-Fulfilling Jewish Zombie and his so-called father, who appears to not only be a deadbeat dad, but also a cruel SOB to let him be crucified by the Romans, would be another great step forward?

    And speaking of the zombie’s dad, you mentioned before that the mamser was in fact legit. The Great One in the Sky blew a load in Miriam (that must of rocked her world!). But that leads to another problem with Biblical coherency creating an intractable discrepancy: Isaiah prophesied that the Mossiach would be from the house of David. That is a patrilineal. Unless God is some great grandson of David, then the zombie is not what was prophesied.

    Forget that Miriam was not a mentioned as a virgin prophesy, but as a maiden. That, by the way, was why it was changed in the non-Hebrew bible: It was well known the zombie was a bastard. It was necessary to make the myth so as to show that Miriam was not propping it up for anyone, only for the Almighty!

    Really kid. You gotta get out more.

    Who are you talking about sitting under a tree for 20 years? Is that some bullshit they taught you at Jesus Camp? I assume you are referring to the Buddha. The Buddhist version I have heard is he stayed under the tree for several to many days. The Asians had very sophisticated calendars, so they would have said weeks, months or years if they meant that.

    You gotta get out more. Focus on the snogging/knickers combo. And as you are 16, the in between bits of age-appropriate partners should hold some interest too.

  575. on 09 Oct 2011 at 4:01 am 575.Anonymous said …

    Mitch, you have absolutely no basis in fact for your beliefs. None at all. What you have is a post-hoc rationalization to try to explain away what we know now against the superstitious beliefs of some bronze and iron age people.

    Read your post 570 and note how you dismiss Mohammed simply because you don’t believe in him. Note you accept the resurrection simply because you do believe in it. No facts. No evidence. No proof. Just belief. Do you not see how hypocritical and illogical your stance is on that position?

    Your comments about evolution are just plain wrong. Hopefully when you read and learn you’ll see how wrong they are. Also, hopefully, you’ll wonder why your church and other theists would present such a obviously incorrect representation to you on that subject.

    Next, you’re being manipulated into a position of false equivalency. Scientific knowledge and religious beliefs do not stand on equal footing. The former has evidence, it’s not a religious belief. The latter exists purely on faith. It’s a belief despite lack of evidence. That’s what faith is.

    Finally, note how even if you could prove evolution completely and utterly wrong, that that would do nothing at all to provide evidence of the existence of any of the 10,000 imaginary gods that man has worshiped through history.

    Ask yourself this: Why do theists spend so much energy trying to change the subject whenever they are asked to produce evidence for this imaginary god of theirs? Why do theists always attack evolution and cosmology when they are asked to prove that their god exists? Again, even if you could disprove evolution, that does NOTHING, nothing at all to prove the theists point.

    Why won’t any theist produce actual evidence for the existence of their god? Well the answer is glaringly obvious. They produce no evidence because none exists. And no evidence exists because all gods are imaginary. Every single god ever postulated does not, and never did, exist.

    Welcome to the real world.

  576. on 09 Oct 2011 at 5:52 am 576.Mitch Brown said …

    Anonymous, Im not trying to prove evolution or anything wrong, Im trying to understand non-christian views on christianity, not Islam. So i think it would make sense that being a christian I would not agree with stories of Mohammed.

    I dont think Im communicated what im trying to say… Everything in the universe has purpose, and seems to seem like it was designed. Im not trying to prove evolution wrong, simply trying to point out that there are a lot of things that seemed to have been carefully placed together to do a certain function.

    and in your last paragraph you ask why wont any theist produce any actual evidence for the existence for their God? I would strongly disagree with that, Thats what so many scientist have been doing, trying to show everyone the facts, proofs. but so many deny them.
    What has made you to feel this way about religion and proof in Gods?

  577. on 09 Oct 2011 at 6:16 am 577.Mitch Brown said …

    Observer,
    Several chapters in the Gospels explain the line of david and his decedents, I promise you, Jesus is in there. God knows were not stupid, he explained it.

    and when you say why would God allow Jesus to be crucified on the cross…
    Jesus came to save us, by baring the weight of the world, taking all the sin in the world, dude come on, Read the Gospels. Jesus knew what he was getting in to. He is the messiah, which the very word means savior, he paid for the price of salvation for everyone… everyone. God wanted to take away the separation that had come, in Mark 15 it says, and the curtain was ripped in two… the curtain was the thing that separated us from God. and jesus for filled every prophecy that Isaiah said.

    why would they talk about Buddha at Church Camp? thats just common sense man

    Btw, every book ive read(which is a respectable amount) and every Buddhist ive talked to, they all said Buddha sat under a tree for 20 years, even in their sacred texts… Trust me man, I get out

  578. on 09 Oct 2011 at 1:39 pm 578.Lou (DFW) said …

    567.Horatiio said …

    “You obviously have studied little science in your life so let me help.”

    Let ME help. All of what you wrote is 100% irrelevant to the fact that you have no evidence for your imaginary god. Creation, Big Bang, evolution (micro and macro) are irrelevant tangents that theists like Hor use as a diversion to hide that fact.

  579. on 09 Oct 2011 at 1:42 pm 579.Anonymous said …

    Mitch, so being a Christian you don’t believe in Mohammed? Why not? Aren’t your stories as ridiculous as each other? You are most likely a Christian because of an accident of where you were born and what your parents believed. If you were born in the middle east, you’d probably be a Muslim. Don’t you see that? Don’t you get what that means?

    Everything in the universe has a purpose? So what if it does, so what if it doesn’t? None of that is “proof” of design. You see design because you want to and because you have a simplistic, church-led, view of existence. Define design. Define purpose. Explain who designed this so-called designer. Get educated on these matters. But you won’t you’ll make up excuses at this point.

    Your last paragraph in 574 is nonsense. You’re side-stepping the question. YOU can’t produce proof of your imaginary god. Stop evading the question. Science isn’t trying to prove or disprove god. Science cares about reality and God simply isn’t necessary. You believe in a god, YOU need to produce the proof. Until you do, there isn’t any. Stop being led by the nose into believing that because we don’t know everything that this mythical god of yours is the answer. That’s silly, nonsensical and it’s simply an argument from ignorance and an example of the ever-shrinking god of the gaps.

    You also exhibit the same slanted mindset that theists use to poison the well against anyone who doesn’t share their delusions. Nothing (literally) has made me “feel this way” about religions or god. I take the same view of your god as I do about Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. None of those things exist.

    You talk to Observer about the gospels. Your book of fairy stories is not proof of anything. You can’t use the bible to prove the bible is true. That’s silly and illogical. In that case Harry Potter is proof of wizards, isn’t it? The Greek Gods must also be true, I can read about them too. Think man, think for yourself.

    So, again. Produce evidence for your god. You know, actual, reproducible, testable, definitive evidence that proves your god true and all others false. But you can’t, because your god only exists in your imagination.

  580. on 09 Oct 2011 at 1:45 pm 580.Lou (DFW) said …

    570.Mitch Brown said …

    “centuries, for Mohammed… im not a muslim soo i dont acknowledge him as a prophet, no dis respect to muslims. but i do believe in the resurrection. just like billions of people believe that a man sat under a tree for 20 years, billions of people believe that we came from monkeys, and a billion people believe that everyone else’s beliefs are stupid, we all have our beliefs and we will always fight about whose right.”

    You claim that billions of people believe things that are obviously not true. Yet somehow YOUR belief, one that has absolutely no more evidence to support it than does theirs, is true? Your comments are evidence that you are just as delusional and irrational about a belief in a god as they are.

  581. on 09 Oct 2011 at 1:48 pm 581.Lou (DFW) said …

    574.Mitch Brown said …

    “and in your last paragraph you ask why wont any theist produce any actual evidence for the existence for their God? I would strongly disagree with that, Thats what so many scientist have been doing, trying to show everyone the facts, proofs. but so many deny them.”

    You should read more and write less. Besides being wrong, your comments like that one don’t even make any sense. Your comments mostly serve to illustrate how confused your really are.

  582. on 09 Oct 2011 at 1:54 pm 582.Severin said …

    575 MB
    “…he paid for the price of salvation for everyone… everyone.“

    Let’s see what Bible says obout it:

    Judea was occupied by Romans.
    As all elites, in almost all countries ever, Judean elite took care of themselves, not of Judean people. Judean rulers, administration AND the clergy, followed the „do not ruffle“ routine. As almost all elites, ever, they were loyal to authorities of accupators. Roman authorities used the same tactics all occupators used ever to rule occupied countries: they combined the policy of „carrot and stick“. Typically, carrot was reserved for Judean elites, and stick to Judean people.
    It was a sensitive equilibrium between Judean elites and Roman authotities, who could not efficiently rule without cooperating with Judean elites.
    Typical and well known!

    Then some guy came who claimed he was a god!
    Both Romans and Judeans already had their gods.
    THAT would be enough to induce hate and self-defending impulse in both Roman uthorities and Judean elites; in such a sensitive situation both sides could have many troubles if they lost their uahorities. They COULD NOT allow anyone to distroy the sensitive ballance that enabled them relatively comfortable living.
    Jesus not only preached he was a son of the god, but directly attacked the existing order by making disorder in the temple.
    He was arrested and condemned to death on cross. Judean clergy supported the case, and confirmed the verdict. Then Jesus was crucified.

    Now, I am curious to know at what place in the Bible e, or anywhere else, there are eny evidences that:
    1. Jesus was god, or son of a god
    2. Jesus’ crucifiction was a sacrifice
    3. Jesus had intention to save people from anything with his „voluntary“ death

    But the most interesting question is:
    4. WHOM did Jesus “pay the price”? WHO asked him to pay this price? WHO accepted the price?

    Not less interesting question is:
    WHAT HAPPENED after jesus “paid the price”?
    WHAT CHANGED in people’s lives?

    WHAT, specifically, changed in lives of people in China, India, Americas, Australia, Africa (99.8% of population of earth)?
    WHAT changed in lives of Christians?
    I mean, WHAT REALLY CHANGED?

    Please THINK about it!

  583. on 09 Oct 2011 at 2:07 pm 583.Anonymous said …

    Severin – Apparently god sacrificed Himself to Himself so that He could atone to Himself for the mistakes He made when He created the flawed creatures He knew would offend Himself.

    After that, what really changed? Err, nothing?

  584. on 09 Oct 2011 at 8:12 pm 584.Severin said …

    #581

    I agree, but I would like the young man to think about it.

  585. on 09 Oct 2011 at 8:24 pm 585.DPK said …

    Obvious Mitch isn’t “really” here to learn anything or discover anything. He is just here saying that as a thinly veiled disguise to preach. He already thinks he has the answers he desires.. for now, anyway.

  586. on 09 Oct 2011 at 10:09 pm 586.Mitch Brown said …

    DPK, the only reason Im here to to learn, We dont get these conversations in church dude,
    And all the anonymous’…
    One asked what changed and how did people change, God came as man and walked with us, like he did in the garden of eden. He re-built the bridge between us and God,
    and some one said that they charged him and crucified him, The jews wanted him dead because he told them they were not holy and that they are not the ones who are in power, they took him to the Roman courts and there Pilate could not find fault in him, he said they can crucify him because he didnt want the jews to riot.
    and im pretty sure that the bible makes it clear that jesus sacrificed himself so that we may be closer to God.
    Severin, God did create man, but he gave us free will, in the movie kingdom of heaven theres a line that explains what i mean, “A king may move a knight, but the soul belongs to the man.” God could make us do anything he wants us to do, but he wnt make us. that is not who God is, he wants us to follow him because we want to, out of our own choice, just like he wants us to accept forgiveness and Christ into our lives because we want to.

    There is evidence to God’s existence and creation, I just wish there was a better way to show it than through comments on a blog…

  587. on 09 Oct 2011 at 10:27 pm 587.Mitch Brown said …

    I’m quickly finding out that no matter what or even how i ask a question or try to explain an answer, it will always be resented. I’m just gonna stick with talking to the professor of philosophy at USC, I’m probably never gonna get to have face to face conversation with anyone commenting on this.
    Good day and God bless

  588. on 09 Oct 2011 at 10:46 pm 588.Lou (DFW) said …

    585.Mitch Brown said …

    “I’m just gonna stick with talking to the professor of philosophy at USC…”

    Because “no matter what or even how [you] ask a question or try to explain an answer,” you never receive the response you want.

  589. on 10 Oct 2011 at 1:45 am 589.Xenon said …

    Lou,

    You claim that billions of people believe things that are obviously not true. Yet somehow YOUR “lack of” belief, one that has absolutely no more evidence to support it than does theirs, is true?

  590. on 10 Oct 2011 at 1:52 am 590.Xenon said …

    “I’m quickly finding out that no matter what or even how i ask a question or try to explain an answer, it will always be resented.”

    Mitch

    There are some very thoughtful people here. Unfortunately you took up conversation with Lou and DPK. They just do not grasp science, philosophy, metaphysics and epistemology and they have no desire to do so.

    There typical response will be “no proof for God” even to this post. They are very predictable.

  591. on 10 Oct 2011 at 6:13 am 591.Severin said …

    584 Mitch Brown
    “One asked what changed and how did people change, God came as man and walked with us,…“
    „… that jesus sacrificed himself so that we may be closer to God.“

    So, you confirm the story! Jesus WAS god, and he DID sacrifice himself to himself to himself!

    God killed himself to make me closer to him? No, thanks!
    How, the hell, can I be closer to god if god killed himself some 2000 years ago, then escaped somewhere and never appeared again?
    If this story was true, it would be the ugliest story I ever heard, and it would reject me from god, if I ever believed in him.
    In fact, it DID reject me from religion when I was about 8 and started to use my own brain.
    What can I think about an „allmighty“ who, instead to really do something for people, choses to kill himself and then to run away („heaven“) from his own responsibilty for his people?!

  592. on 10 Oct 2011 at 6:40 am 592.Severin said …

    584 Mitch Brown
    What to say about god who choses to die to “save” people, but, in fact, saves no one.
    ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed in positive direction after god died and escaped from earth.

    Did your god create people in India, China, Africa, Americas, Australia, or some other god created those people?
    How is it that he totally neglected hundreds of millions of “his children” (there were some 500 million people on earth of that time)?
    What DID he for THEIR “salvation”?

    Centuries passed, in some cases milleniums (Americas, Australia), before those people ever knew for Jesus!
    Jesus/god OMITTED to inform all those people about himself!
    He NEGLECTED them all!
    He never informed them about what he expects them to do to be saved!
    Are those billions all in hell now?

    A very, very clumsy, irresponsible god! He makes spectacles for “salvation” of few hundred thousands of people, and forgets hundreds of millions of other “his children”!

    That is how I reasoned when I was about 8, and it did not changed till today.

  593. on 10 Oct 2011 at 12:47 pm 593.Lou (DFW) said …

    587.Xenon said …

    Lou,

    “You claim that billions of people believe things that are obviously not true.”

    Not only do I, but so does Mitch, and so do you.

    “Yet somehow YOUR “lack of” belief, one that has absolutely no more evidence to support it than does theirs, is true?”

    Your comment is a fallacy. For example:

    Please provide evidence to support the lack of belief that there are leprechauns who hide their gold in a pot at the end of rainbows. It doesn’t require any evidence to not believe that there aren’t. I’m sure that you do not believe that there are, correct? So show me evidence that are not any. But if you do believe it, then provide evidence for that belief, as well as for your imaginary god, for which there’s no more evidence than there is for leprechauns who hide their gold at the end of rainbows. And by the way, until you provide evidence for the lack of belief in leprechauns who hide their gold at the end of rainbows, then it’s possible it’s true, correct?

    “They just do not grasp science, philosophy, metaphysics and epistemology and they have no desire to do so.”

    Metaphysics and epistemology IS philosophy.

    Regardless of whether or not someone understands any of these subjects is irrelevant to the fact that there is no evidence for god. If there is, then please present it rather than present diversions to hide the fact that there is no evidence for your imaginary god.

    If I claim that I know leprechauns exist, and that I even have a relationship with them, and they showed me their pots of gold at the end of rainbows, then you would no doubt think that I was crazy. You wouldn’t even bother to ask for my evidence. But even if you did ask me, I couldn’t present any. Why? Because their isn’t any, just like there isn’t any for your imaginary god. But if I insist that my claim is true, and if I asked you to present evidence for your lack of belief, you wouldn’t do that either. You would assume that my belief is delusional, irrational, or simply a one of faith.

    So, either present evidence for your imaginary god or admit that your belief is either irrational, delusional, or simply one of faith for which there is no evidence.

    Which is it?

  594. on 10 Oct 2011 at 2:30 pm 594.Observer said …

    #575 Mitch You are establishing your xtian creds on this website like your fellow travelers; you display both ignorance, and a willingness to state mistruths due to intellectual laziness, or outright inability to do otherwise.

    First, the 20 year thing is utter rubbish. I do not doubt the possibility you read such a thing in some gutter church publication. It is nonsense, and you are repeating nonsense. Try reading something reputable. Look for a reading list from a reputable institution in the following way:
    1. Chose a reputable school, Ivy League, (old) Big Ten, Pac 10 (21).
    2. Google the religion or philosophy department to get the url.
    3. Look for courses offered, find one on Buddhism.
    4. Look at the professor’s website to get the syllabus.
    5. Find the reading list and texts.
    6. Either buy the books, borrow from a local library, or get via inter-library loan.

    Then educate yourself.

    As for the Bible, I will admit much more familiarity with the “Old Testament”, but have read the tripe you are referring to? Where is the explanation of the mamzer being from the House of David? By the way, this is an old debate and each time it was held in Europe, the xtian intellectuals were crushed by the rabbis they debated. This led to several expulsions. Frighteningly, the church had great power in those days, and when the nose of its bishops and cardinals were rubbed in the shit they believe, they were not only peeved they took action against the folks telling the truth. As an example, you should look up the Disputation of Barcelona, 1263.

    So please, give the verses where this is discussed. And by the way, if this was a divine plan, then why the need to rely on all sorts of contorted reasoning, and explaining? Doesn’t it seem more like the result of a desire to twist and corrupt Judaism to make it acceptable to non-Jews? Who would want to give up seafood and bacon? No Clams Casino? And how many guys would want to get circumcised? What is it you guys say? “Circumcised of the heart?” While an obviously idiotic statement, I can see how it might provide comfort to fools getting sucked into the miasma of faith.

  595. on 22 Oct 2011 at 10:24 pm 595.chris said …

    interesting stuff.

    god does not equal religion.

    religion does not equal eternal life.

    science does not equal god.

    god does not equal eternal life.

    god has nothing to do with religion.

    science has nothing to do with religion.

    we are all seekers.

    we all seek answers.

    science does it one step at a time…methodically, measurably, explanatorily, and (i might add) brilliantly.

    religion does it with fairy tales.

    case closed.

  596. on 13 Dec 2011 at 4:31 pm 596.Lain2501 said …

    Nice try but I think the WWGHA website could be more effective if it started off with the animal/human sacrifice parts or the other difficulties with the bible first. The prayer part has too many assumptions and debatable aspects. The prayer part could easily be rationalised with problem of evil/suffering apologetics while the other difficulties would be more challenging. Also the tone was probably a bit too patronising in parts which could turn off people who would otherwise be persuaded.

  597. on 27 Apr 2012 at 3:46 pm 597.all inclusive resorts florida said …

    I absolutely love your blog.. Pleasant colors & theme.
    Did you develop this website yourself? Please reply back as I’m attempting to create my own website and would love to find out where you got this from or what the theme is named. Thanks!

  598. on 26 May 2012 at 6:34 pm 598.Natnael Tewolde said …

    God is real!
    When Jesus comes here you will perish only if you don’t believe!
    I am a Christian!
    I will be saved!

  599. on 26 May 2012 at 6:36 pm 599.Natnael Tewolde said …

    GOD created everything!!

  600. on 26 May 2012 at 6:59 pm 600.Prime said …

    Christians on the internet: Evaluating the validity of claims by the number of exclamation points following them, since 1992.

  601. on 26 May 2012 at 8:03 pm 601.alex said …

    why weep when your loved one dies? everything happens for a reason. thank god for all your blessings. if your son is autistic, it’s all part of god’s plan. go ahead and pray. sometimes your prayers are answered and sometimes not. you cannot lose! don’t worry about the atheist. don’t worry about the gays. don’t worry about the abortions. leave the bible at home. don’t even go to church. don’t worry about a thing! it will all play out according to god’s plan.

  602. on 09 Jun 2012 at 4:20 am 602.John Cross said …

    The reason we choose to be delusional is because of fear. Ultimately, this is a fear of the fact of our extinction – the impermanence of the self, of the ego. Our inabilty to face this fact, to face the Reality of the Oneness of Life, opting instead to see it as a giant ego-grab free-for-all, with fantasies of punishment for our enemies in “Hell”…(is that consistent with Jesus’ instruction to love our enemies?), and a “Heavenly” eternal ego reward for the “righteous” at the end of our physical lives on Earth, is the beginning and the end of our entire problem as a race. And yet the totality of Judeo-Christian belief does absolutely nothing to combat this war-mongering, delusional view of reality. Instead, it encourages it, and worships the very delusional notion which is responsible for all of this misery, on the notion of the reality of the self. Judeo-Christianity’s stance is to dig its heels into the mud, and attempt to “prove” and defend the lie of the self, the ego, instead of facing the Truth that the self, the ego is NOT real, is temporary, and an illusion. Once it is known the ego has no essential, lasting Reality, then the totality of Judeo-Christian theology ceases to exist, since every single essential concept within this theology, from God, the exclusive divinity of Jesus, “eternal souls,” “angels,” “Satan,” etc. are all nothing more than selves, egos. Selves are like elves – they have no Reality whatsoever, and neither does any religion which relies on their reality for its very existence. This includes Christianity and Islam, whose theologies are both invalidated in this awareness.

  603. on 09 Jun 2012 at 4:24 am 603.Prime said …

    602.John Cross said …

    “Selves are like elves – they have no Reality whatsoever,”

    What does this mean? Seems a bit New Age to me. Selves, meaning consciousnesses, being an emergent phenomenon of nervous systems seems to be one thing, but saying they have “no reality whatsoever” seems to be another.

    Hopefully some quantum mechanics will make it on here. I don’t get to flex my education in physics very often.

  604. on 09 Jun 2012 at 5:13 am 604.alex said …

    “The reason we choose to be delusional is because of fear”

    fair. i suspect it’s also validation for personal hatred: women, blacks, gays, muslims, etc. the bible says…, so there.

    additionally, a way out for perverts. i guarantee that if an atheist molested a child, everything single atheist in here will speak out against it.

    the preservation of the religious culture is paramount. the hell with the kids, it’s more important to cover up the disgusting activities rather than let the public in on the shit that goes on.

    what about the pope betrayal thing and what exactly was leaked? the pope masturbated? the pope wore women’s clothes?…..

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  608. on 18 Aug 2012 at 10:45 pm 608.RevRichard said …

    I really like this site. I am what is known as a spiritual atheist. Some say agnostic, but not really. I accept a deliberate universe without need of a ‘god.’ I may be wrong. I don’t care. To me it’s this simple: No one knows the real truth about anything–not believer, not unbeliever. Remaining open to possibilities strikes me as a good way to approach all of this. Thanks for the insights. I have stolen a couple of quotes, but I have also shared this site on FB and Twitter. I guess they weren’t around when you started this site, eh? Are you even still keeping up with it? Oh, well…

  609. on 08 Sep 2012 at 9:54 pm 609.Right said …

    “Remaining open to possibilities strikes me as a good way to approach all of this.”

    Yes, remaining open is rationale until you discover the truth. If you ignore the truth when discovered then you are no longer open.

  610. on 25 Sep 2012 at 5:50 pm 610.The messenger said …

    Jesus is real.

    I have experienced an actual miricle.

    When I was just 2 weeks old I gocaught a horrible case of Amonia. My lungs where filled with flem and mucus. I stoped breathing. I was about to die when all of a sudden my Mobile that was hanging above my crib startted to spin and play music. The funny thing is that the moble that was above my bed needed to be cranked up for It to start working and no one had cranked it up all night. The noise that the mobile made was enouph to wake up my mother who was sleeping in the bed next to my crib. When she reolized that I was nolonger breathing she woke up my dad and they tryed to get the car started so they could get me to the hospite but the car wouldn’t start. the soungd of my parents panicking was heard by my nebor who is a docter.

  611. on 26 Sep 2012 at 12:01 am 611.DPK said …

    “When I was just 2 weeks old I gocaught a horrible case of Amonia.”

    Really didn’t need to read any further than this.
    Did you ever stop to wonder why loving Jesus didn’t just keep you from gocaughting a horrible case of Amonia in the first place?

  612. on 26 Sep 2012 at 12:52 am 612.Anonymous said …

    The poster is probably a drive-by but it’s funny and indicative of the lies Xtians tell to convince themselves that their delusion is real. Hint, their is no god but spoons, they exist,

    But, back to the story. In our story Amonia-boy is sick in bed. Rather than use a baby-monitor, or a baby-sitter, or even good-old-fashioned child-care, Amonia’s parents neglected him to the point where they’d be guilty of child-abuse had he died. Remember, his story is a load of bollocks, this is only what it would be were it true.

    Having now died, or been deprived of oxygen long enough to suffer irreversible brain-damage, Amonia’s parents have a choice; call the emergency-services, attempt to resuscitate him, obtain the services of a doctor who lives next door or do fuck-all and panic. They panicked, thus ensuring his death or lingering coma had he somehow hung on beyond normal limits. Of course, his story is all make-believe, so he didn’t really die.

    Now, somehow in this story, despite being dead, or being ensured of a vegetative state for life, their next door neighbor heard the commotion and..what? Parted the Red Sea? Made water out of wine? No, apparently without any mention of his intervention, the next door nebor (sic) woke up and everyone lived happily ever after.

    Now, somewhere in this tale of abuse, neglect, and maltreatment a miracle supposedly occurred. What that miracle is, and why this god needed to make everyone act in such a fucked-up manner, isn’t at all clear.

    And Xtians wonder why we laugh at them.

  613. on 26 Sep 2012 at 1:09 am 613.DPK said …

    And, being he was not only deathly sick from Amonia, but the ripe age of 2 weeks old, so naturally he remembers it all in great detail.
    One can only wonder how fucking stupid can people be? A 3rd grader could make up a more believable story.

  614. on 26 Sep 2012 at 1:51 am 614.Anonymous said …

    But there’s more…

    How does this 2-week old baby know *which* god was involved?

    If the key is the mobile moving, that’s not something traditionally associated with BibleGod. That’s the hallmark of a poltergeist or some other malevolent spirit, maybe even Satan.

    So, messenger, if your story was true, wouldn’t the likely outcome be that you were possessed by an evil spirit which would have been made even more angry by being denied? What have you done to ensure that these evil spirits in your bedroom have been cast out from within you? If you were possessed, you wouldn’t know, would you?

    You claim it was some god… “but what if you’re wrong?”

  615. on 26 Sep 2012 at 2:52 am 615.Lou(DFW) said …

    613.DPK said …

    “A 3rd grader could make up a more believable story.”

    When I first read it I thought it was a sarcastic comment – no?

    BTW – the “docter” saved him from his “horrible case of Amonia” – LOL!

  616. on 26 Sep 2012 at 6:38 am 616.Severin said …

    610 Messenger
    “Jesus is real”

    Santa is real!
    When I was 6, I wrote him a letter, and he gave me exactly what I asked him.

    Tooth fairy is also real!
    When I was 6, I got some money under my pillow for my tooth, as my parents told me she promised me, if I put the tooth under the pillow.

    Allah is real, no doubt!
    He saves Muslims and answers their prayers.

  617. on 04 Oct 2012 at 2:10 pm 617.D said …

    This website is about exploring whether God is real or not… but it seems to me that its more about putting believers down, I am glad that I know God and believe that he is real, it must be tough living this life without believing in your creator, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and we should all respect each other a little more instead of constantly playing tug a war with the idea of whether God is real or not.

    You dont believe that is your choice, I was raised going to “church” and can see how people get set in their ways and want to make others feel like they are wrong. religion has a way of seperating us all because we all want to be right but as I got older I realized that God is not about religions, he is about relationships, before you completely say there is no God I want to ask you this, have you ever tried to let God in your life? Have you ever prayed to him wholeheartedly with the right intentions? He is REAL and he is a loving GOD,and only through Jesus’s sacrifice can you be saved, dont knock it until you tried it. You are missing out in the greatest thing that will ever happen in your life… and no im not crazy just call me a believer, and no I dont need to search for proof, I have a strong thing called faith that believe it or not everyone has a measure of…get out of the box in your heads and try GOD he is waiting for you… God Bless you all

  618. on 04 Oct 2012 at 2:36 pm 618.Lou(DFW) said …

    617.D said …

    “… but it seems to me that its more about putting believers down…”

    It “seems” that way to you because “believers” NEVER, EVER present any evidence for their belief. They, like you, post anecdotal evidence. And many then post lies about atheists.

    Nobody cares about your personal relationship with an imaginary god. That’s what’s called a delusion.

    Why are you so special to your particular god, but the majority of people on the planet aren’t? Are they appealing to the wrong god, but are just as certain of their personal relationship with theirs as you are with yours? Or is it that you’re all deluded? It’s obviously the latter, but being deluded, you can’t see that.

  619. on 04 Oct 2012 at 5:11 pm 619.D said …

    Faith in God is all that is needed, it is sufficient not evidence and perhaps that is one of the reason it is extremely hard for some to believethat there is a God because he Cannot be physically seen, I’m not here to post lies about atheist there is no point to do so, you want to call me delusional okay, Bo one cares about my relationship with an imaginary God LOL that’s fine I’m only stating that He does exist, he is very much real, without faith it is impossible to please God because in order for God to work in in your life you first have e to believe that he is REAL, the proof is in our lives and what God has done through us. He has healed sickcnesses and has restored marriages he has performed miracles, I am not delusional just Completely convinced that God exists through what he has done and continues to do in my life.

  620. on 04 Oct 2012 at 5:55 pm 620.DPK said …

    If he is real, why does it require “faith” to believe it?
    As Mark Twain said “Faith is believing in stuff you know ain’t so…”
    Simple as that.
    To answer your prior question…
    “have you ever tried to let God in your life? Have you ever prayed to him wholeheartedly with the right intentions?”
    Yes, I have. Many times. What I got was nothing. Why is that? Why does god only seem to reveal himself to people who are already convinced he is real? Why do people who most definitely do NOT believe in YOUR god also proclaim with absolute certainty that THEIR god is real? Why has everyone who has worshiped countless thousands of (now discarded and forgotten) gods throughout history also claim with the same certainty that you do, that THEIR god is unquestionably real?

    “the proof is in our lives and what God has done through us. He has healed sickcnesses and has restored marriages he has performed miracles…”

    Do you think that people who don’t believe in gods are never healed from sicknesses, have marriages restored, or benefit from seeming “miracles” like surviving a car wreck, not being swept out to sea by a tsunami, or making their way out of a burning building? Do you think that people who DO believe in and pray to god never; die of cancer anyway, have their marriage fall apart anyway, lose their jobs anyway, die in the plane crash, fire, earthquake… anyway? Are you really that myopic as to not see that good and bad things happen to people who believe with the same frequency as people who do not? It’s called chance, and the miracles you speak of are called coincidence, and the confidence with which you speak of these things is called self-delusion. You believe only because you want to, not because there is ANY valid reason to do so.

  621. on 04 Oct 2012 at 6:08 pm 621.Lou(DFW) said …

    619.D said …

    “Faith in God is all that is needed…”

    In other words, there’s no evidence for your imaginary god.

    “I’m only stating that He does exist…”

    We don’t care what you state, we only care about what you can demonstrate to the same standards to which any other claim is subjected.

    “I am not delusional just Completely convinced that God exists through what he has done and continues to do in my life.”

    LOL! You are delusional, as you continue to demonstrate by refusing to answer any direct questions and by failing to provide any evidence for your imaginary god.

    Don’t you people get it? When you post here in a vain attempt to defend your delusion, then you actually weaken your position and provide more reasons to reject your silly fantasy.

  622. on 04 Oct 2012 at 6:39 pm 622.Anonymous said …

    620.DPK said …

    “Yes, I have. Many times. What I got was nothing. Why is that? Why does god only seem to reveal himself to people who are already convinced he is real?”

    If you prayed to God, (not to a statue made of gold or an image created by another man) and have believed that God is infact real without any proof without any evidence then he will answer you, your intentions have to be pure. I cant answer all your doubts or questions because I dont have answers for them. Its literally Blind faith. I cant answer for everyone else’s beliefs and why they feel like their gods are real,DPK you once wanted to believe and maybe once did but faith is what is needed. I realize that, that is probably the last thing people want to go on, but thats the only way to know God. I can care less what Mark Twain said about it, its something you need to experience for yourself.

    “Do you think that people who don’t believe in gods are never healed from sicknesses, have marriages restored, or benefit from seeming “miracles” like surviving a car wreck, not being swept out to sea by a tsunami, or making their way out of a burning building? Do you think that people who DO believe in and pray to god never; die of cancer anyway, have their marriage fall apart anyway, lose their jobs anyway, die in the plane crash, fire, earthquake… anyway? Are you really that myopic as to not see that good and bad things happen to people who believe with the same frequency as people who do not?”

    For the statement above, I believe that God is in control, whether you serve him or not, its called life, believer’s are not exempt from the pain it brings we dont automatically get a free pass because we serve Christ, we still suffer, we still die , we still go through it all because that is what this life is…hard. but the difference is that we have a Savior, he fights for us, we dont go through this life alone and we have eternal life in heaven. can I prove that? NO. again blind faith, but each day my faith in God grows, each day he works in every aspect of my life,and I see the product of his works.

  623. on 04 Oct 2012 at 6:46 pm 623.D said …

    Lou(DFW) said …

    No there isnt proof that I can offer you that can help you believe there is a God.
    I cant convince you, you would have to just try Faith…
    see what happens
    not to prove us wrong
    but to really see what all these delusional people keep preaching about.
    if this is delusion then call me crazy
    I dont care, if you are going to comment at least have the decency to be respectful, I wish you nothing but the best in this life and I hope that one day you can open up your mind to the possibility of a greater power.

  624. on 04 Oct 2012 at 6:54 pm 624.Anonymous said …

    D, you don’t want respect, what you want is for people to stop pointing out that you are delusional and to not have to seriously consider your misplaced faith,

    Respect is earned, it’s you that is being unreasonable when say “respect my beliefs” and expect a pass from reality.

    It’s not going to happen. If you want your “beliefs” respected, then provide some proof. If you can’t do that, then you have to accept the results.

  625. on 04 Oct 2012 at 7:01 pm 625.D said …

    you are desperate to find answers yet you dont want to do what you need to do to get them, you want proof, I cant give that to you, yet im delusional for not needing any proof… im telling you just have faith, and your comeback is I need proof first, lets just agree to disagree, I believe and you dont, you dont want to believe until you have seen something with your own eyes, like I said I cant give that to you. Ask God just try go ahead what are you going to lose? nothing! ask himm to prove himself to you, not out disbelief but out of true curiosity, you will see… he is more real than the back of your hand…

  626. on 04 Oct 2012 at 7:03 pm 626.Lou(DFW) said …

    623.D said …

    “No there isnt proof that I can offer you that can help you believe there is a God.”

    I didn’t write “proof.” I wrote “evidence.” All you offer is your personal experience – a delusion.

    “if this is delusion then call me crazy”

    A delusion isn’t necessary craziness.

    “I dont care, if you are going to comment at least have the decency to be respectful…”

    I didn’t write anything that was disrespectful about you. You whine about being disrespected while you write “call me crazy.”

    “I wish you nothing but the best in this life…”

    LOL! The only reason you are here is to legitimize your delusion. And you STILL didn’t answer any direct questions put to you.

    “and I hope that one day you can open up your mind to the possibility of a greater power.”

    Like DPK, been there, done that.

    Again, we don’t care what you hope or state, only about what you can demonstrate. So far you only demonstrated that you’re deluded.

  627. on 04 Oct 2012 at 7:06 pm 627.Lou(DFW) said …

    625.D said …

    Repeated the SOS over and over without answering our direct questions. Now the “craziness” is peeking through the cracks.

  628. on 04 Oct 2012 at 7:07 pm 628.Lou(DFW) said …

    625.D said …

    “you are desperate to find answers”

    Finally, the usual lying about atheists begins.

  629. on 04 Oct 2012 at 7:19 pm 629.DPK said …

    “If you prayed to God, (not to a statue made of gold or an image created by another man) and have believed that God is infact real without any proof without any evidence then he will answer you..”
    Again, your claim is demonstrably false. You believe that because you don’t want to not believe it… but it is simply not true. I was raised christian in a very christian family. I tried. God never revealed himself to me. Your claim is false.

    “I cant answer all your doubts or questions because I dont have answers for them. Its literally Blind faith.”

    The entire basis of your claims here are the perfect example of circular, deluded thinking. “If you believe without question… only then you will believe.” Well, duh. If you really, really believe in Santa Claus, then one thing can be said for certain… you believe in Santa Claus. If you really really believe in Jesus, then you will believe in Jesus… but just like Santa, it doesn’t mean Jesus is anything more than a figment of your imagination, just like Santa. “Blind Faith” is called “blind” for a reason. Because if you opened your eyes, you could see it was completely unfounded.

    “No there isnt proof that I can offer you that can help you believe there is a God….”

    Then why are you here, trying to convinve us otherwise>

    “I cant convince you, you would have to just try Faith…”

    Circular reasoning… in order to believe, you must first believe…. nonsense.

    “see what happens
    not to prove us wrong
    but to really see what all these delusional people keep preaching about.”

    been there, done that. Google “minster turned athiest” and read about multitudes of people who have cured themselves of the same delusion you have. People who really WANTED to believe, and even dedicated their lives to serving their imaginary gods, only to come to the realization that it is all just a lie…

    “if this is delusion then call me crazy”

    Uh, I think we have. In case you missed it… you’re crazy.

    “I dont care, if you are going to comment at least have the decency to be respectful, I wish you nothing but the best in this life and I hope that one day you can open up your mind to the possibility of a greater power.”

    You are not looking for respect, you are looking for validation. Respect is earned. I’m sure you are a nice guy… know what, I am too. But if I came to your house and told you I believed there was an invisible dragon living in my garage that wanted us all to worship him (and pledge some cash, btw…) would it be reasonable for me to demand you “respect” my beliefs? Or, would the kinder thing be to try and help me see the reality of the situation? The reality that there IS no invisible dragon in my garage and that I am wasting my life and time worshiping it, trying to do what I think it commands me, and even worse, trying to CONVINCE OTHER PEOPLE (exactly like you are doing HERE) that it is real and that they are in dire peril if they do not submit and acknowledge (though blind faith… same as you are asking of us) his power and authority.

    Seriously… what would you do? Respect me, join me, or help me see the truth?

  630. on 04 Oct 2012 at 8:37 pm 630.D said …

    I don’t need validation and I am not. Crazy LOL but i see your point of view its hard to believe you were raised believing at one point and that God never revealed himself to you, of course to you it is because now you believe he is imaginary, I don’t come to convince you you are already convinced that he isn’t real, that’s too bad, ill keep praying for the both of you. :)

  631. on 04 Oct 2012 at 8:49 pm 631.Lou(DFW) said …

    630.D said …

    “its hard to believe you were raised believing at one point and that God never revealed himself to you,”

    LOL! No it’s not. I was also raised to believe in Santa Claus, and he never revealed himself to me. Why? Because he isn’t real, exactly as your imaginary god.

    “I don’t come to convince you you are already convinced that he isn’t real,”

    Then why are you here?

    We are not “convinced” of it anymore than we are “convinced” of the non-existence of any other imaginary thing. It’s YOU who are convinced of something, not us. I don’t have to be convinced that little fairies live in a cave on the moon, it’s simply something I don’t have to consider or be “convinced” isn’t real.

    You simply don’t understand the stupidity of your reasoning.

    “that’s too bad, ill keep praying for the both of you.”

    PERFECT! A demonstration that prayer doesn’t work.

  632. on 04 Oct 2012 at 9:49 pm 632.Severin said …

    617 D
    “You don’t believe that is your choice, …”

    I never came to a religious blog to tell people they were wrong in their beliefs. I don’t know atheists doing such things.
    I don’t know atheists going door to door to tell people what to believe.
    Atheists have no propaganda machines spending enormous money to compete religions.
    I don’t know for atheist churches with big bells, atheist mosques with big minarets, …
    I never ever heard about atheist organisation asking people for money.

    What we believe is our choice.
    What you believe is your choice.
    No one is telling you what to do with your life and what to believe in.
    I personally don’t give a shit for what you believe or don’t believe. Whatever you believe is good for you, I hope, I have no complaints, and I do not wish to change your belief or to impose my opinion to you.
    But if you come to me to tell me I am wrong, which you DID by coming to this blog to patronize me/us, I will kindly expect more than your words; I will expect arguments and evidences.

    So, what are you doing here?
    What are you trying to tell us?

  633. on 04 Oct 2012 at 9:56 pm 633.Severin said …

    619 D
    “… without faith it is impossible to please God …”

    What makes you think that we want to please god?
    WE don’t.

    We don’t even believe there is one.

  634. on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:02 pm 634.Severin said …

    617 D
    “… it must be tough living this life without believing in your creator …”

    It is not.
    It’s because I don’t think I was created. I don’t think anyone or anything was created, ever.

    Yet, my life is wonderful.

  635. on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:18 pm 635.Severin said …

    619 D
    “… and only through Jesus’s sacrifice can you be saved, …”

    Saved from what?
    I don’t need to be saved from anything.

    Apropos, can you kindly explain to me the expression “Jesus’ sacrifice”?

    A sacrifice have only sense if it has a purpose. A goal. Behind a sacrifice are expectations.
    A soldier sacrifices himself expecting to save his comrades giving his life for their. A mother sacrifices herself for her children…

    What were Jesus’ expectations when he decided to die?
    Were those expectations achieved?

  636. on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:28 pm 636.Severin said …

    619 D
    “Faith in God is all that is needed, it is sufficient not evidence and perhaps that is one of the reason it is extremely hard for some to believe that there is a God …”

    You are totally and absolutely right!
    There are people who believe every single shit someone tells them, and need strong faith to keep their beliefs, and people who don’t believe anything without evidences.

    You belong to the first group, and I belong to the latter.
    But why are you telling us that? Why do you think we care what you believe?
    It is YOUR choice, didn’t you say.

    Why don’t you just let us have our choice?

  637. on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:44 pm 637.Severin said …

    #622
    “For the statement above, I believe that God is in control, whether you serve him or not, its called life, believer’s are not exempt from the pain it brings we dont automatically get a free pass because we serve Christ, we still suffer, we still die , we still go through it all because that is what this life is…hard.”

    So, god is in control, but EVERYTHING is going on as if there were no god?! Both good and bad people dye, both bad and good people live, children dye, both believers and non-believers get cancer, or get healed from cancer …

    Why would I care for god, even if I believed he existed, if his “control” is SO random, that we can’t “feel” him (her?) even through hes deeds?
    Why would such a god interest me?

  638. on 04 Oct 2012 at 10:51 pm 638.Severin said …

    #622
    “… but the difference is that we have a Savior, he fights for us, …”

    How does he fight for us?

    By randomly distributing good and bad among believers, non-believers, children, Muslims, Jews, dictators, killers, …

  639. on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:01 pm 639.Severin said …

    #622
    “can I prove that? NO.”

    So you are, in fact, patronizing us, or what?
    Come back with some support in form of evidences, anything less than that is patronizing.

    We are NOT saying you what believe or not believe.

    Also, please be careful: we do NOT say there is no god!
    What we DO say: we don’t believe there is one (or more) without evidences.

    And, of course, everyone who believes something he can’t prove real, must, from our point of view, be delusional.
    Believing in god does NOT differ at all from believing in Santa, mermaids, leprechauns, tooth fairies, volcano gods, Zeus, Allah, Odin, …

  640. on 04 Oct 2012 at 11:28 pm 640.A said …

    D,

    They are extremely desperate. It is why Looney Louie and his band of vagabonds monitor the site 24/7.

    He gets very agitated when I leave for 4 or 5 days. I drop back in to keep him charged up!

  641. on 05 Oct 2012 at 12:19 am 641.Anonymous said …

    “Ask God just try go ahead what are you going to lose? nothing! ask himm to prove himself to you, not out disbelief but out of true curiosity, you will see… he is more real than the back of your hand…”

    D, either you are going to gain a convert or you are going to have to admit that your god is imaginary. Let’s see which one it is:

    You want us to ask this god to prove himself.

    First, which god do we ask? There are tens of thousands to choose from. Please narrow it down for me.

    Second, how do I address my request to the right god? You see Jews tell me to ask god to prove himself, Muslims tell me the same, Christians use it also. However, my new-age friends also tell me I should let The Universe into my heart and it will prove itself to me. But there’s more. I’m told exactly the same about Homeopathy, Naturopathy, Chiropractic, Reiki and a host of other evidence-free beliefs. How do I know to address my wishes to your god and not, say, the god of Islam?

    Third, all the people above assure me that once I do the above I’ll believe. However, you can’t all be right. How can I tell the difference between your and their claims? They are, after all, identical in every way.

    Fourth, how did you come to pick the right god amongst the tens of thousands of different ones? How do I know you are not worshiping a false god as all the other people I reference above claim?

    Without answers to these basic questions you are setting an impossible task. The task cannot make sense unless you can demonstrate the existence of your god and that your god trumps all others. However, you’ve claimed that proof is not possible. This means you’ve set an impossible task, the method of which can never be ascertained, yet you claim it to be possible and effective.

    You’re contradicting yourself all over the place. It’s clear that everything you say is made up and it’s made up to make you feel better about accepting things without critical examination.

    Should you wish to contradict yourself (again) and demonstrate that your god exists so that we can know which god to believe in so that we can then believe in him without having known which god to believe in, then go ahead. Otherwise, I think your circular arguments have shown how nonsensical your premise actually is.

  642. on 05 Oct 2012 at 2:51 am 642.DPK said …

    630.D said …
    I don’t need validation and I am not. Crazy LOL but i see your point of view

    Well then again, I ask you, why are you here? Of course you are looking for validation. Otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to convince others you are right while at the same time admitting you have absolutely nothing to offer other than “blind faith”/

    its hard to believe you were raised believing at one point and that God never revealed himself to you,

    Why is it hard to believe? You hear the same story from many people. And, if you are honest to yourself, you know that god has not “revealed himself to you” YOU have simply inserted your idea of god into things you want to believe in. Like the person who sees the face of Jesus in the burnt toast, when it is really just random patterns. You put god into coincidences and you ignore things that make no sense. You already said you have “no answer” for why good and bad things happen equally to believers and non-believers alike. Why people that pray to other gods that you KNOW do not exist ALSO claim that their gods answer their prayers, and that their gods ALSO are “as real as the back of your hand.” Now you KNOW those people are imagining that, right? But not YOU.. right? See a pattern here?

    of course to you it is because now you believe he is imaginary, I don’t come to convince you you are already convinced that he isn’t real, that’s too bad, ill keep praying for the both of you. :)

    Well, you do that. You pray, and I’ll predict exactly what will happen… I will either have an epiphany and be converted, or I will not, or perhaps I will be converted to Islam, Hinduism, or Scientology, or maybe something else. One of those things will happen, and no matter which, you will claim it is god answering your prayer in his own mysterious way.

  643. on 05 Oct 2012 at 2:47 pm 643.The messenger said …

    God is real. He is always with us, watching over us, and guiding us on the path of love, peace, and kindness.

  644. on 08 Nov 2012 at 6:45 pm 644.Peter said …

    I would like to comment on some ignorant points.

    1st : Buddhism is not a religion, it does not have a “god” and does not answer to the questions of the universe or creation.

    Buddhism does however believe in the power of mind and that focus and peace of mind can be achieved by medidating, which already has been proven to be very effective by Tai Chi practioners and doctors.

    Buddhism believes in “karma” too, and this is one of the laws of physics. For every cause there’s a consequence. And this is also true. Karma is not linked to “doing something good means something good happens” and if somebody wrote this, please report to the Buddhism temple near you so that they can get in touch and fix it.

    I’ve studied religion for what.. 10 years now and I can assure you thar Buddhism is not one.

    Also, to say that BUDA is a reincarnation of Vishnu is just ignorance. Buddha is a TITLE given to (many people actually) who are awaken. Awaken means they got into the state of Nirvana. And this means that they’ve achieved truly peace of mind, inner peace and focus and does not suffer from outside tragedies anymore.

    So, Vishnu MAY be “reincarnated” in SOMEBODY who had the title of BUDDHA, but to say that BUDDHA(the first one, siddartha gautama) was one of Vishnu’s spirit is just completely ignorance.

    BTW you can’t say that believing in GOD is denying BUDDHA, because BUDDHA is not a god, never was considered one and never will be. Buddha had a mother, a father, a brother and did volunteer work all his life if you will.

    Yes, buddhists do believe in reincarnation, but Quantum Physics is studying this and cannot deny it. That being said, you can’t prove it to be true, however it’s not false either.

    Again, Buddha is not god, never was. Please people do some research before just dropping shit inside a poor made book.

    Poor made yes, but also true.

    Nice effort and good “book”. Almost everything right. But please do not confuse or fool people. We don’t need this.

  645. on 08 Nov 2012 at 6:56 pm 645.JALindsay said …

    Here we go again with calling “karma” a law of physics by utterly mutilating Newton’s third law, which applies only to physical forces (Cf. gauge theory) and not to bullshit doctrines designed to keep poor people content with being poor via magical fear.

    Thanks for the ignorance, Peter. You really cleared things up there.

  646. on 10 Nov 2012 at 12:26 am 646.azreal said …

    Hey ho its all a load of blocks

  647. on 06 Dec 2012 at 1:33 am 647.Anonymous said …

    I am a Mormon and I strongly believe in god and Jesus Christ. The reason all those people died in Noah’s ark is because they were inhumanly wicked. The sinned left and right. I strongly belive in and love god and would die for him without a second of thought. And here is a thought for, how did Jesus raise the dead? I think that this websit is crap.

  648. on 06 Dec 2012 at 1:43 am 648.alex said …

    ” I think that this websit is crap” -> Damn, finally, The Proof for God! Praise the Lord.

    2 Kings 13:21 – this shit is real. read and learn.

  649. on 24 Dec 2012 at 6:43 am 649.John said …

    1- you are not going to find proof for a non-physical being by examining the physical.
    2- the big bang, at least to me, does not sound very different from “let there be light”
    3- If an alternate, spiritual, universe is impossible, why do we so readily accept theoretical physics postulated multi-verse and alternative universes. If alternate universes with completely different rules/laws can exist, then how can we say. ( without evidence) that one of these universes might not be physical.
    4- if we accept Einsteins relativity, which says matter and energy are two forms of the same thing; and given that matter evolves, is there no minuscule probability that energy could somehow evolve into life
    5- as our brains run on energy, (synapses are electrical) and oxygen, it seems to me awareness and consciousness may somehow lie at that intersection
    6- looking at computers, there I hardware, software, and that which is created and saved using them. At times it doesn’t seem a bad metaphor to wonder if the body/brain is the hardware while we are the software and or the actual programming. Don’t forget the cloud!
    7- for what it’s worth, religion at one time embraced science, only when man decided they were in conflict has the chasm widened
    8- I have no answer to why prayers are not answered beyond random probability. I have had prayer answered, and I think prayer changes the one praying, which is not insignificant. God is not at our beck and call like a genie, and if the answer to a prayer is no, then so be it. I have struggled with the promise to grant our prayers, why make the promise…..
    9- no where does the bible imply no suffering. Christ was crucified, Stephen stoned, others killed. You can say what you want, but the Bible does not promise no suffering, rather it promises the ability to find peace during suffering.
    10- Science says something can not come from nothing. So we have existence. So something exists . We measure time. So either something always has been, or something came from nothing. If something came from nothing then anything is possible. If something has always existed then that really messes with the notion of time…. Because you can’t go to a beginning. Point is there is more we don’t know than we do

    I think there is a rationale possibility for a God or spiritual realm outside of time and space. I think overly literal interpretations of the Bible are difficult to defend. DNA looks to me like a building block.

    Love is real, I have seen it and felt it. While it may just be serotonin swimming around my brain, I think it important that we don’t confuse the understanding of how something works with the knowledge of how it got that way or more importantly why .

    The evolution of creatures wanting to know “why” in a universe devoid of reason seems like a tremendous waste and rather illogical.

    God bless you all….

  650. on 24 Dec 2012 at 11:34 am 650.Anonymous said …

    “God bless you all” – the theist
    s passive-aggressive way of saying “fuck-you”.

    The same to you “John”

  651. on 24 Dec 2012 at 2:18 pm 651.Lou(DFW) said …

    649.John said …

    “The evolution of creatures wanting to know “why” in a universe devoid of reason seems…”

    We don’t care how things “seem” to you. Tell us exactly “why” the universe and we are here – to worship a selfish, vindictive, angry god?

    “…like a tremendous waste and rather illogical.”

    LOL! As opposed to inventing an imaginary sky-daddy to explain everything not understood? A process that has been shown time and time again to be flawed?

    It is an “illogical” and “tremendous waste” to believe in and worship an imaginary god for which there is absolutely no evidence.

  652. on 24 Dec 2012 at 2:39 pm 652.Lou(DFW) said …

    647.Anonymous said …

    “I am a Mormon and I strongly believe in god and Jesus Christ.”

    All the more reason to discount everything else you post here.

    “The reason all those people died in Noah’s ark is because they were inhumanly wicked. The sinned left and right.”

    There are many times more sinners since then. Why hasn’t your imaginary god sent another flood?

    “I strongly belive in and love god and would die for him without a second of thought.”

    So, what’s stopping you?

    “And here is a thought for, how did Jesus raise the dead?”

    He didn’t. But if he did, then why isn’t he doing it now?

    “I think that this websit is crap.”

    I think you are full of crap. And guess what? Neither opinion is relevant to the fact that you don’t have any evidence for your imaginary god.

  653. on 24 Dec 2012 at 5:37 pm 653.Am_Sci said …

    @John
    1. If the non-physical (whatever that means) interacts with the physical then it can, in theory, be detected. Almost every believer thinks that God can manipulate the physical world.
    2. The Big Bang is a scientific theory developed as an explanation for observed facts like universal expansion, the shape of the universe, the ratio of elements, and the cosmic microwave background radiation. Some parts of the ancient Semitic creation myth may not contradict the theory, but that doesn’t mean the myth is at all useful in finding answers.
    3. Hypotheses about multiverse are accepted are not readily accepted true. Rather, they are accepted as possibilities that follow from the known laws of physics. Proponents of the hypothesis aim to test it and do not take anything on faith. Also, any other universe would be physical by definition.
    4. Energy did evolve into life, what is your point?
    5 and 6. The brain is the hardware and software. When a part of the brain is damaged or altered, it changes a person enormously– strong evidence that the “self” is entirely physical. Please note that energy is just a human concept that is a useful label, it does not represent anything deep or mystical.
    7. Science holds that all knowledge is uncertain and that any useful hypothesis can be falsified. Religion claims to possess a deeper truth that cannot be overturned by contradictory evidence. The two approaches to knowledge are irreconcilable.
    8. See: confirmation bias.
    9. I don’t know where the bible promises peace during suffering, but it doesn’t seem to work very well.
    10. Wrong! The Uncertainty Principle is an essential part of modern physics and, apparently, a fundamental attribute of nature. Energy can and must arise out of nothing, otherwise the exact energy of a system can be known and the uncertainty principle would be violated. This has been observed.

    Also, be careful not to make an argument from consequences. Just because you think a godless universe isn’t worth living in (I disagree), doesn’t mean there is a god.

    May a bit of reason permeate your poor, religion-addled brain!

  654. on 24 Dec 2012 at 6:11 pm 654.Anonymous said …

    Am_Sci, congratulations on your patience. You must be new here.

    A point.You cover it but it may not be clear to the non science literate. John is equivocating when he says “Energy”. What he is referring to is that inane babble that comes along with the deepity babbling of Chopra and other new age mystics. John doesn’t understand at all the meaning of the word Energy as used in physics and other sciences.

  655. on 24 Dec 2012 at 6:17 pm 655.Anonymous said …

    “The reason all those people died in Noah’s ark is because they were inhumanly wicked. The sinned left and right.”

    Umm, umm, umm. The myth is that those aboard the Ark lived and everyone else died. Of course, that’s ass-backwards as to what would have happened should an ark of those dimensions have actually been constructed.

    Or is the Mormon version of the fable different in that respect?

  656. on 24 Dec 2012 at 8:20 pm 656.Lou(DFW) said …

    649.John said …

    “The evolution of creatures wanting to know “why” in a universe devoid of reason seems like a tremendous waste and rather illogical.”

    As Deepak Chopra might say, the universe serves the mechanics of human observation.

  657. on 07 Jan 2013 at 1:04 am 657.David Brown said …

    The problem with the “illusion” that there is no God is based on the SAME two “illusions” shared by BOTH Science AND Religion………that there WAS a “beginning” to Existence…and that an EXTERNAL “Super Being”….”God”…. Created this Existence. On the surface BOTH premises are illogical because Science reveals a “Cause” for every “Effect/Affect.”

    153 years ago Science revealed that Existence ALWAYS was and ALWAYS will be in Pasteur’s “S” shaped flask experiment. “ALL life MUST come from pre-existing Life”….The Law of Biogenesis. You can place all of the active components of a living cell into an active plasma membrane “bubble” and no matter what you do to it…IT WILL NOT START TO LIVE. Why? Something is missing that can only come from Life itself…….that “missing” element IS GOD.

    Science claims Pasteur’s experiment disproved “spontaneous generation of life” once and for all yet they then claim it happened at least once. The Stanley/Miller experiment that creates amino acids out of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, ammonia and water vapor “spontaneously” is a far cry from “spontaneously” creating nucleic acids (DNA,RNA) that record the amino acid sequences of protein enzymes necessary to catalyze the biochemical pathways required to synthesize nucleic acids because the necessary sequences are not a random collection of amino acid polymers. You “need” the genetic codes to “make” the enzymes to synthesize the nucleic acids that “record” the required genetic codes The paradox is the same as “what came first, the chicken or the egg?” The truthful answer is NEITHER. The only thing that happens is “CHANGE” that results in the great diversity of life via Darwinian Natural Selection AND Intelligent Design via Recombinant DNA.

    Ironically, the anthology of ancient writings called the Bible that is rejected by atheism also reveals what Pasteur’s experiment revealed…that Existence always was and always will be. The Bible tells us that before Earth and the observable “Heavens” were formed God Existed with what is called the Holy Spirit and Jesus as well…the “Trinity” …”They are ALL the SAME.” The Creation in Genesis describes Creation in terms of the experiences the Bible writers had at THAT time. They did not know about Darwinism, Recombinant DNA, modified cloning, String/M- Theory and Bubble/Brane Theory. (and the “other” Multiverse Theories) Today’s Cosmologists agree that “our” Big Bang” that “inflated” into space-time, matter and energy from a “Singularity” is just one of an infinite number that exists and always will. It is obvious that Adam was Created in the Image of Gid via Recombinant DNA through God’s Family

    The “God is Imaginary” campaign of atheistic sites like this one is a “Godsend” because it proves the God of Science and Religion DOES NOT EXIST! That God IS imaginary! Thank God!!! The God revealed in the Bible and Incarnated “in the flesh” as Yeshua Ben Joseph… (Jesus The Christ of God and the Son of Man….a “hybrid Starman” I might add)… 2,000 years ago is INTERNAL in His Creation and He dwells within His Creation and acts through His Creation and His PERFECT LAWS. It is arrogant man that requires God to be “supernatural” and EXTERNAL to His Creation. As the Amazing Kreskin said…”The supernatural (paranormal) is the UNDISCOVERED NATURAL.” If God dwells within us as Jesus revealed, it is impossible for “prayer” not to work ACCORDING to God’s perfect Laws. You may call it “co-incidence” but your statement that “prayer” does not work all the time is false because when a helicopter rescues you off a roof during a flood or a surgeon saves your life in the ER…THAT MY FRIEND IS GOD. Co-incidence is when God chooses to remain anonymous. (AND BTW…Science HAS done carefully controlled experiments and has discovered altered levels of amino acids during “prayer” in a subject’s blood.)

    The Bible even declares that we are “gods”…. “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.” Psalm 82:6. The difference between good and evil is found in that single Scripture…evil evolves from those who accept they are “gods” but reject they are “Sons of God.” This Scripture refers to ALL of God’s Family…not just those on Earth…our Cosmic Brothers and Sisters. The Bible even reveals this Truth quantitatively revealing only 1/3rd of Creation chose to be their “own gods.” (I am NOT saying all atheists are evil…nor are all believers good!!!) Does God create evil? Only when we reject “our” God Family and be our own gods. The idea that God is cruel because He allows evil is based on the false God of Science and Religion.

    Atheists say the Bible was written by men. Duh…obviously! However, if we accept the God Jesus Christ revealed…not the false god of Science and Religion… (including Christianity I might add)…we are accepting the Truth of Psalm 82:6 and accept “ourselves” as Children of the God of Creation and THEREFORE….we know the Bible is the Word of God because He lives and works through us so He did write the Bible!

    Jesus is called the Son of God and the Son of Man. So are we AND so is our Cosmic Family. Genesis says we are Created in the Image of God from the “dust” of the Earth. Duh…that’s because we “look like” the Children of God that God Created us through via Recombinant DNA and DNA is carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen and phosphorous…”dust” of the Earth.”(THIS explains why Simians have 95% the same genome of humans. Science says we evolved from apes…this, however, is impossible because the only source of new genetic codes for natural selection is through DNA mutation which are 99% lethal which would require a LOT more time to evolve a man from an ape than we have. rDNA is the only other possibility. We are 95% ape genome and 5% “Divine” from our Cosmic Family. (AND BTW…”they” have been “tweaking” our genome for a long time and they are no where near finished! (BTW, Jesus, was 50% human through the Jewess Virgin Merriam (Mary) and 50% Divine via artificial insemination…a Hybrid Starman.) Completion of our evolution will take effect when Jesus returns to restore Earth to God’s Kingdom…the Intergalactic Federation of Star Nations. (Hey…I’m a “Trekki”) I suspect the “restoration” is sooner than later because of the rapid fulfillment of Biblical Scripture in Daniel, Matthew and Revelation, especially the “Fig Tree Prophecy” fulfillment on May 14, 1948. Also..the Bible commands us to be courteous and all respectful to everyone we meet because we could be talking with an Angel of God. (Members of God’s family and they look exactly like us! (Yes… ET’s!!!)
    BTW….Jesus will return EXACTLY the same way He left….taken up into a “cloud” which hid Him from site of His Disciples. A couple of Angels (ET’s) appeared and asked the Disciples why they were staring into the sky? They said..”Do you not know that this Jesus who you have seen ascend into the “cloud” WILL RETURN THE SAME WAY? (Acts 1:6-11)
    Hmmm…. “cloud”… condensed water vapor…caused by a strong energy field maybe from the propulsion mechanism of a Starship? I’m just sayin’.

    I will share one last Scientific interpretation of Scripture……

    Adam was the first man Created via rDNA…he was alone. Nothing but indigenous hairy, smelly females around. “A regular planet of the Apes!” Was Eve Created by rDNA? NOPE…that would not have been Scriptural. Bible says Adam was put into a sleep and a “rib” was removed and God covered it with “flesh and blood” and Eve was Created. Cool explanation at the time. When Eve was presented to Adam he exclaimed …”at last, flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone. I will call her women because she comes from man.” OK…how did God really do it? Piece O’cake. Take two adult stem cells….remove the “Y” chromosome (DNA) from one , discard it and save the cell. Remove the “X” chromosome (DNA) from the other stem cell and save it and discard the cell. Insert the “X” chromosome from the second cell into the first. Treat with appropriate biochemical determinants to trigger cleavage and morphogenesis and place into the uterus of a surrogate “mother.” (one of those hairy smelly females or maybe an artificial stainless steel womb, which I suspect was the actual method) Nine months later…Eve is born. I’m sure she was not presented to Adam until after puberty…I doubt Adam was a PERVERT. Eve is definitely a Homo sapiens female via modified cloning of Adam…”flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.”

    Many Christian Creationists believe in “Intelligent Design.” They have no idea how close to the Truth they are!!!

    “Prayer” works because God is in us. Ironically… the Star Wars Saga of George Lucas is actually closer to Biblical reality than Judaism and Christianity combined!

    Thanks for your site and the work you do in proving the god of Science and Religion is IMAGINARY…it is important and it picks up where Christ left off…..revealing that ALL religions are imaginary and definitely oppressive and that more people have died in the name of religion than any other reason. Jesus frees us from ALL Religions including Christianity and reveals the True God of Existence that dwells within!

    Now you “know” the true answer to the question…”what came first, the chicken or the egg?” Neither…. because God IS.

    May the Force Be with You….David Brown Oswego, NY w2tsa@aol.com

  658. on 07 Jan 2013 at 2:34 am 658.David Brown said …

    An addition to the above post….

    Christians often quote the Prophet Isaiah when stating that we cannot understand God’s Nature because “His ways are far above man’s.” I find this reasoning contrary to what God reveals in Genesis when He said we are Created in His Image (Genesis 1:27) and that the Psalmist says we are “gods” on God’s Family (Psalm 82:6) If we are indeed Created in His Image…we are “like” Him in Nature as well as looks and in fact His Son Jesus Christ said we would do works “greater than He even did.”

    I submit Isaiah was referring to God’s Nature of LOVE, COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS and HOLINESS …not His Laws of Existence. Science is God’s Gift that frees man from illusions just as Jesus’ revelations frees us from ALL the illusions of ALL religions including Christianity. Jesus did not form a “new” religion, in fact He practiced Judaism. Man made a religion out of the Truths Jesus revealed. The Bible says Jesus “sets the captives free” …free from oppression of other men and religion is made made and is even more oppressive than government because it prevents man from “knowing” the True God.

    David Brown w2tsa@aol.com

  659. on 13 Feb 2013 at 5:45 am 659.nike free run 3 mens said …

    We are a group of volunteers and opening a new scheme in our community.
    Your web site offered us with valuable information to work on.
    You’ve performed a formidable process and our entire group shall be grateful to you.

  660. on 08 Apr 2013 at 3:49 pm 660.Jonathan said …

    I’m 20 and I’ve experienced a lot! People need to wake up its the 21st century! And I can tell you a couple things of realistic things! Whoever post about god is imaginary I bet your life sucks! Unless u sold ur soul! PEOPLE NEED TO READ THIS! The devil controls everything on earth ! Gods word is real he will come down soon! There’s real demons as well that control the media and big websites! YouTube does delete videos! Watch the movie that came out “evil dead” ! This is new actors a movie tht came out and really has real demon in that book that you will see! Illuminati is real they pray to demons because they are the “fallen angels” there here with us now! They have power on earth! Gods close by just watch! I have so much knowledge at my age! People tell me I’m so ahead of life and I believe it’ I was near death so many times! I’ve been saved and glad’ I prayed to him and he answered my prayers! Michael Jackson, tupac they finally were against the demons and they were scared! Cuz they kno how strong the wicked industry is! Come on now there so many demons in the wicked industry! But don’t believe in god cuz he don’t answer ur prayers! U can’t just pray to him when u need him! It’s an everyday thing telling him u appreciate his existence around you! He’s real! He don’t answer every prayer! There’s 14 billion people on earth! And one thing you guys need to know is that god tells us to have FAITH! We’re here because he let us decide where we want to go! He gave us that freedom to go to heaven or eternal fire! It’s called faith to believe not just expect everything! People worshipped the devil for centuries! God gave us resources to search for him and for everything in general! Every war is about pride and religion! Causes chaos! Look up Albert pike for some of u intelligent people! Albert pike three world wars! Everything is set up by the govt wake up!!! Creator of the kkk had a statue across frm the White House! God said we will wake up!

  661. on 28 Apr 2013 at 9:00 am 661.Sara said …

    i came to your website not because i dispute God. but because i dispute religious teaching.

    i understand your line of thinking.

    the thing is – when i breath, peep put from the window on a bright sunny day, see a beautiful butterfly – i cant help but say – oh! who can be smart enough to create all this.

    and when i cramp up double when i get my period pain, look astonished at my finger which got rotten with pus just because a tiny piece of i don’t know what got stuck in it = i cant help but say – oh! God. please help me.

    i haven’t read your whole blog but i guess you are telling us Mr. Science knows it all.

    well i guess your Mr. Science and my God are both the same.

    God bless you(wink!)

    Constructive criticism to my views are most welcome.

  662. on 28 Apr 2013 at 12:55 pm 662.alex said …

    “well i guess your Mr. Science and my God are both the same.”

    your a dumbshit. nobody ever said science had all the answers. in your brainwashed mind, if you can’t explain shit, goddidit. you wonder and you’re easily impressed, eh? extrapolate the earth against the vastness of space if you can. it’s insignificant. it’s difficult to comprehend how a god would bother with a spec unrecognizable even from a few light years away. convince me. but not with your bullshit babble or even more bullshit bibble.

  663. on 28 Apr 2013 at 1:29 pm 663.alex said …

    “and when i cramp up double when i get my period pain, look astonished at my finger”

    but you conveniently fergit:

    I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth. In pain you will bring forth children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you

    I have two virgin daughters. Please let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them what seems good to you. Only don’t do anything to these men, because they have come under the shadow of my roof
    (and many more…)

    lest you think i’m a 100% cursing, uncaring, cynic, i do volunteer work, helping the homeless/bums even though i happen to know that some of them are scamming the system.

    btw, i’m coding a mobile app for them, while i’m jotting this down.

  664. on 28 Apr 2013 at 1:59 pm 664.Scourge said …

    661 Are you so simple that you believe butterflies are “created”? Why don’t you educate yourself? Even if you are 20+ and don’t capitalize singular, subjective, first person, possessive pronouns, there is time. Read about evolution on a website unaffiliated with any religious sect. There are wonderful online courses that are free.

    Start your search at edx.org.

  665. on 29 Apr 2013 at 1:18 pm 665.Sara said …

    “but not with your bullshit babble”

    looking at your replies even a 5 yr old could figure out whose actually babbling. you or me.

    “..or even more bullshit bibble.”

    assume your talking about the bible. No. i’m not a bible follower. You assume wrong.

    Your replies are terribly incoherent and sounds like some one who is suffering from alot of frustration. in my own humble words

    ‘i think the devil has got in to you” (wink!)

    Good day to you and Good Luck.

  666. on 30 Apr 2013 at 2:24 pm 666.Scourge said …

    I cannot believe I have the honor of entering the 666th entry on this blog. I love pointing folks to “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?”

  667. on 21 Jun 2013 at 3:15 pm 667.Fluttershy said …

    Scourge!!!
    You are such a scourge!
    i wanted 666 ;P

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