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Christianity Admin on 23 Feb 2007 07:48 am

Does God kill children to win converts?

Does God kill children to win converts? And if so, why would anyone worship a murderer? This is the question asked by a recent post in The Forum. In particular, the post points out two quotes by superbowl coach Tony Dungy. Dungy lost his son to suicide. According to many Christians, and Dungy himself, if was “OK” to lose his son because it was part of God’s plan and thousands of people learned about God’s love, and Tony’s faith, through the son’s death. Dungy put it this way in one article:

Tony Dungy has been reluctant to speak publicly about the Dec. 22, 2005, suicide of his 18-year-old son, James, but the Indianapolis Colts coach opened up a little Wednesday when the tragedy came up during a news conference at the team’s Westside complex.

“For me, I think it was really a test,” Dungy said to a group of about 50 local and national media gathered to discuss the Colts’ Feb. 4 Super Bowl meeting with the Chicago Bears.

“I think God gives you tests to see if you’re going to stay true to what you believe and stay faithful. For me, that’s what it was, having to continue to believe. Sometimes when you have disappointments, it makes that final destination that much sweeter.”

In another article he said this:

But Dungy used the most important lesson to drive home his point before the packed ballroom full of former NFL players and coaches, league officials and fans.

“If God had talked to me before James’ death and said his death would have helped all these people, it would have saved them and healed their sins, but I would have to take your son, I would have said no, I can’t do that.

“But God had the same choice 2,000 years ago with His Son, Jesus Christ, and it paved the way for you and me to have eternal life. That’s the benefit I got, that’s the benefit James got and that’s the benefit you can get if you accept Jesus into your heart today as your Savior.”

It seems like what you get when you “accept Jesus into your heart” is that God will potentially kill your children to “save people and heal their sins.”

As the forum post put it: “The message seems clear: God kills children to win converts. This is God’s will. Why do people choose to believe in such a being; a being that murders children. It seems totally perverted.”

Why?

9 Responses to “Does God kill children to win converts?”

  1. on 23 Feb 2007 at 12:31 pm 1.blaize said …

    Suppose God doesn’t exist and the the child still dies. Everything is exactly the same, except God doesn’t exist.

    If this is true, then the cause of death is caused natural causes. In fact, every death that occurs is the result of natural causes. Even murders are the result of natural processes. Humans evolved as a result of natural processes. The presumed human conscience arose from primitive chemical processes, and it now merely a complex chemical process. The finger pulling the trigger on a gun is merely an electro-chemical process.

    Naturally, people will object to this view of the world because murder is inherently wrong. The question then is why? If one wants to contribute conscience to evolutionary processes, then ultimately morality is baseless, because heinous act could be justified as a natural process.

    In fact, many have used such views this justification to endorse mass murder. Natural selection gives rise ethnocentrism and genocide. According to Mein Kompf, the Arian race was the superior race, and therefore it only seems natural that they are allowed to multiply and reproduce and other races get stamped out. The Japanese Empire had the same ideology. Literature from Japanese government in prior to WWII had scientific “evidence” that said that the Japanese were more highly evolved than other races because they had less hair. Less hair meant that they were less “ape-like” and therefore superior.

  2. on 23 Feb 2007 at 3:43 pm 2.Loi P said …

    Something like this was posted on Fundies say the darndest things.
    Here’s the quote:
    [Would God cause someone else to suffer for your benefit?]
    If God cannot get your attention then he will pick maybe your child to suffer to get your attention.”

    The responses to this by fstd users were hilarious:
    “Just like the mafia.”- John
    “John: The Mafia was my first thought also. The comparison is just too apt.
    ‘Nice kids you’ve got there, mortal. Real nice kids. It’d be a real shame if anything was to, uh, happen to ‘em.’- David D.G.
    “GODfather award, maybe.”- Adrian
    It’s so strange what people will believe.

  3. on 23 Feb 2007 at 3:44 pm 3.Loi P said …

    Hi

  4. on 23 Feb 2007 at 3:45 pm 4.Loi P said …

    A comment like this was made on fstdt (Fundies say the darndest things). The users made the comical point that it made God sound like the Godfather. It was even suggested for the “GODfather” award.

  5. on 23 Feb 2007 at 6:05 pm 5.mattstarrs said …

    I know this site was set up to sow doubt among Christians in the hope that some of them will reject their faith, but I thought the idea you had was that by making people look at the facts in a logical way they would come to their own conclusions?

    This latest post is extremely poor taste to say the least. It has nothing to do with facts and is completely ignorant of normal human behaviour in times of tragic loss.

    The kid committed suicide.

    The father is grieving.

    Grieving people of all persuasions create stories that help them cope with their pain.

    All you are doing here is ridiculing a man in his tragedy.

    The statement where Dungy suggests that God may have had a purpose in James’ death is clearly such a rationalisation. Notice also that he starts the sentence with the word “if” which designates the entire idea as a hypothetical muse.

    The only death that he asserts with any certainty is attributable to God is the death of Jesus Christ. . .

    and it paved the way for you and me to have eternal life. That’s the benefit I got, that’s the benefit James got and that’s the benefit you can get if you accept Jesus into your heart today as your Savior.”

  6. on 23 Feb 2007 at 6:10 pm 6.mattstarrs said …

    No wonder:

    “Tony Dungy has been reluctant to speak publicly about the Dec. 22, 2005, suicide of his 18-year-old son, James”>

    He must have had an idea that there would be indecent people like yourselves that would take pleasure from ridiculing him in his pain.

  7. on 23 Feb 2007 at 7:49 pm 7.Mushinronjya said …

    “by making people look at the facts in a logical way they would come to their own conclusions?”

    If everyone used logic to its obvious extension, there would be no theists in the world.

    “All you are doing here is ridiculing a man in his tragedy.”

    No, he’s pointing out what the thinking is of the man who suffered a loss. It’s people’s interpretations of their chosen deities that he’s referring to. That’s what we are exploring. We aren’t poking fun at him or anything for the joy of it. We had a point, and we made it.

    “The statement where Dungy suggests that God may have had a purpose in James’ death is clearly such a rationalisation.”

    Yes, and we are attempting to interpret these rationalizations in the context of said deity.

    “He must have had an idea that there would be indecent people like yourselves that would take pleasure from ridiculing him in his pain.”

    Again, you miss the point of the post… even though the point is put in the very TITLE of the post.

  8. on 12 Mar 2007 at 9:28 pm 8.storm338 said …

    “But God had the same choice 2,000 years ago with His Son, Jesus Christ, and it paved the way for you and me to have eternal life. That’s the benefit I got,

    I thought suicide was a mortal sin.
    How could James get that benefit if he commited suicide?

    (that’s the benefit James got and that’s the benefit you can get if you accept Jesus into your heart today as your Savior.”)

    What if I just believe that Jesus believed he was dying for my sins? do I still get the same benefit?

  9. on 15 Mar 2007 at 3:28 am 9.Mushinronjya said …

    Where are all the blogs?

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