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Christianity &Politics Johnson on 11 Mar 2009 01:27 am

The best article ever

Here is the best article ever, at least the first four paragraphs:

The coming evangelical collapse

We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the “Protestant” 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.

Millions of Evangelicals will quit. Thousands of ministries will end. Christian media will be reduced, if not eliminated. Many Christian schools will go into rapid decline. I’m convinced the grace and mission of God will reach to the ends of the earth. But the end of evangelicalism as we know it is close.

But then the author, who is apparently an Evangelical, gets completely derailed. Reasons for the collapse stated in the article:

1) Bad politics
2) Bad education of youth
3) Demographics
4) Education again
5) Social backlash
6) Inability to “pass on to our children a vital evangelical confidence in the Bible”.
7) Lack of money due to declining enrollment

These are not the reasons why we will soon see a evangelical collapse. There are only two reasons for the collapse, and they are soooo simple:

1) GOD IS IMAGINARY

And

2) CHRISTIANS ARE DELUSIONAL

More and more people are realizing this. The scales are falling from their eyes as we speak. And Christianity is dying. All religion will die. It is all nonsense, and any intelligent, thoughtful person sees that.

There will come a tipping point where Christianity is seen as insanity, as it should be. Once we reach that tipping point, all sane people will abandon it in droves. All that will be left are the insane, and they will hopefully receive treatment for their condition.

94 Responses to “The best article ever”

  1. on 11 Mar 2009 at 3:51 am 1.Danny said …

    Let’s hope that when evangelicalism dies that it takes fundamentalism and conservative catholicism with it. I don’t mind wishy-washy “spiritual” liberals who talks to god but doesn’t go around bombing abortion clinics or beating up gays.

  2. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:54 am 2.C Woods said …

    I’m usually an optimist, but I doubt that evangelical Christianity will go down the tubes in 10 years. There are too many people who want to believe or who need to believe or think they do. And one aspect of evangelical Christianity is that people who have been brainwashed can feel somewhat superior to the rest of the population because they have found the one true faith and vastly superior to the faithless because they will be going to heaven and leaving the rest of us behind. We can hope, but it will take a “miracle” for it to happen and since I don’t believe in miracles……..

    I have enjoyed your posts. I have added your blog to the list of Freethought Resources on my blog:
    http://tirelesswing.blogspot.com

    Also, on 3/13/09 I will be posting information on the 2009 “Blog Against Theocracy” event in April, supporting church/state separation. I hope you can participate.

  3. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:59 pm 3.jenny said …

    Hmmm… I’ve read your site and watched the videos. The majority of your “logic” seems to get from point A to point B via Pickle. Not sure if that is the proper scientific path of logic, but hey, it is entertaining.

    btw, I am not part of any religion. Too bad you don’t have a REAL argument for all of the work you’ve put into this site.

  4. on 12 Mar 2009 at 6:52 pm 4.Hermes said …

    Jenny, details matter. Got an example, or are you OK with no substance?

  5. on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:10 pm 5.Gern Blansten said …

    Yes, Jenny, please share the reason why god won’t heal amputees, if he/she/it isn’t imaginary.

  6. on 14 Mar 2009 at 3:37 am 6.Rafael said …

    Here is a recent post from my blog on this subject whygod.weebly.com

    USA Today has a story about how there has been an increase of non-religious people. Last year the American Religious Identification Survey found that 15.0% of americans are not religious. That makes up 34.2 million people in america.

    The results tell the whole story, religion is on the decline. None of the large religions increased over the past 18 years and the ones that have a positive percentage increased by less than 0.5% which is the margin of error for this survey. Non believers are now a part of the Third largest group of americans. But when it comes to power and influence we are still the weakest link. Its time for the non-believers to come out and proclaim what we don’t belive in a God. Let it be known, don’t be shy. Don’t allow religious leaders and fanatics (that are doped up on God) run the country.

    Its going to be hard to reach the top spot, but if the current trend continues, in 30 years we will reach that point. Now, religous people, please don’t fear us. We are not out there recruiting new members, they themselves are loosing their faiths for whatever reason. I lost mine because I searched for evidence to explain the Chatholic religion. To those that think that they have proof, if what you say was evidence, then it would be more widely known and the God debate would have been settled.

    Usa today link:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-03-09-american-religion-ARIS_N.htm

  7. on 14 Mar 2009 at 3:43 am 7.Hermes said …

    Rafael, well said.

    I’d add to it that anyone — religious or not — who advocates a free and open society. That advocates knowledge over supernaturalism, Those people, I have no arguments with.

    On the other hand, if someone insists that it is their right to take away the rights of others, or to impose upon everyone else a society of their choosing — a theocracy — then don’t expect complacency. I’ve had enough.

  8. on 14 Mar 2009 at 5:10 pm 8.Chris said …

    I disagree with your statement that “all religion will die.” You’re entitled to your opinion, but are clearly uninformed. Are you current on foreign affairs? Do you realize the intent of radical islamofascists? They don’t just want the U.S. out of the middle east, they want to convert the world to islam by any means necessary. The real koran gives them clear instructions on how to do this. Spare those who wish to convert and behead those who will not. The real koran calls for the beheading of infidels because islam believes that they cannot enter Heaven without a head. I say the real koran because liberals have blatantly omitted and twisted passages in the English version to make islam seem like a peaceful religion. Does beheading someone for believing in mohammed sound peaceful to you? I don’t care what you believe about Christianity, but please don’t allow this transparent controversy of religion divert your attention from real issues that directly affect the survival of our great nation.

  9. on 15 Mar 2009 at 12:43 am 9.Hermes said …

    Chris, I agree.

  10. on 20 Mar 2009 at 11:26 am 10.Darrell said …

    This article is just a long winded version of whats stated in the bible in Luke 21:17, Jesus said that all true christians would be objects of hatred by all people, so yes in a way this article is true religion will fail and those who keep their faith in god will be hated by all.
    To answer Gern Blansten’s question to Jenny, why would he heal anyone? does god do anything at all to phsyically help? no he doesnt, read the bible and you will understand why, if you understand the bible you would know that god is not in control at the moment, satan rules the earth thats why bad shit happens everyday and god does nothing, the bible also states that satan only has a short time left so thats why the world is getting worse and more disgusting everyday, when god brings his kingdom to the earth then he will heal people and stop bad things and so on, understanding is the path to enlightenment and salvation but with so many brain dead morons on the planet talking shit with no information or proof to back their claims, just like the creators of this web site, its makes it hard for small minded people to ever understand anything and see the light. Keep an open mind people and stay positive, the end is comming soon which means the start of something better than this fucked up world we live in now.

  11. on 20 Mar 2009 at 12:09 pm 11.Hermes said …

    Darrell, Gern and I have read the Bible. What you say is not supported by it unless you ignore quite a few important sections of your religious text. Specifically;

    * Amputees;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

    * Your deities inability or unwillingness to address the bad deeds of your demon.

  12. on 20 Mar 2009 at 12:47 pm 12.Gern Blansten said …

    Hermes, did you get a good chuckle when Darrell said “so many brain dead morons on the planet talking shit with no information or proof to back their claims.”

    I know I did.

  13. on 20 Mar 2009 at 3:31 pm 13.Hermes said …

    GB: It’s just strange how little Christians tend to know about their own religion.

  14. on 21 Mar 2009 at 1:50 pm 14.Darrell said …

    When did I say I was a chistian ? I am not. I havent even said I believe in god, Im completely open minded and take the time to study all points of view. To be honest with you Hermes and Gern I cant stand religion, to me its a curse on this earth and the cause of almost everything thats wrong in society today. Pretty much all religions all over the world only care about one thing, keeping their church alive buy sucking people dry and preaching there own twisted view on the bible, god nolonger seems to be in the picture anymore.
    To Hermes, I dont know what bible you read, everything I said is in it as clear as day, its one thing to say you have read it but its something else to understand it. Even though Im still sceptical about a book writen by men with words so called inspired by god there are many things stated in it that cannot be denied and have been proven to be correct. To be fair though whats written in the bible can be taken many different ways, so thats why I respect everyones opinions and beliefs on the matter. Its the people that cant look at all aspects of something and just focus on one thing that pisses me off, its easier to stick to one belief than to be open to all.
    Gern Im glad I could make you laugh with what I said atleast I brightened your day :) but it wasnt a personl attack on anyone just the truth about all those people that talk uneducated bullshit, Im sure you agree that there are many out there.
    Hermes and Gern I hope you enjoy my pionts of view and remember that thats all they are nothing more, so keep voicing your opinions because its the only way to help others see things from a different angle

  15. on 21 Mar 2009 at 4:27 pm 15.Hermes said …

    Darrell: “When did I say I was a chistian? I am not. I havent even said I believe in god”

    Coulda fooled me as you quoted from the Bible and then did not dispute the capital G Christian deity named God, but assumed it from end to end — using terms such as ‘see the light’, references to a Christian demon named Satan, and end-times phrases such as ‘the end is comming soon’ while demeaning the world around you.

    Darrell: “To Hermes, I dont know what bible you read, everything I said is in it as clear as day, its one thing to say you have read it but its something else to understand it.”

    I provided a link that disputes one of your claims in detail (you ignored it), and then commented on the fact that if the demon of the Christians named Satan was causing a mess, that the Christian deity named God was unable or unwilling to do anything about it.

    I’m open to correction. Did I actually misunderstand anything — beyond your assertion that I did — or are you interested in cordiality over what the material actually says?

    That the Christian Bible contradicts itself, and after being cleaned up can be trimmed down to a small book as Thomas Jefferson did, is not something that requires me to do a thing to correct. It’s not my religious book.

    On respect: Respect is earned. Respected people are looked up to and admired. To give respect requires that you look up to or aspire toward what the other person has to say or who they are — well beyond normal likes and dislikes.

    As such, please do not abuse words by telling me that you respect me. The plain fact is that neither of us know enough about the other to make that conclusion.

    What you probably mean is that you are courteous toward people’s opinions — even if you do not aspire to (respect) what they say or to be more like who they are.

    That said, I invite you to add your voice to the poll on religious points of view;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=833

    For what it’s worth, I’m an agnostic atheist (see poll for details if that doesn’t immediately make sense).

  16. on 21 Mar 2009 at 7:32 pm 16.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell rambles on and on about god and the bible, then says he’s not a Christian. Weird.

  17. on 22 Mar 2009 at 2:35 am 17.Darrell said …

    let me keep this simple, to quote from the bible does not mean your a christian, it was my responce to the above article as it was as I said “a long winded version of whats in the bible”. Is this site not about religion god and the bible? thats why I quoted from it just to make a point. As I have said I will look at all aspects not just one to form an opinion, if that means looking in the bible then so be it. Both of you have also read it so does that make you both christians ? of course not, same as me you are looking for answers in other places.
    I looked at the link Hermes, thanks for that but nothing new there. Yes I agree with you it disputes the reference I made to the bible on that matter but proves nothing, thats just the opinion of someone not a fact. Same as the statements you and I make, just our view not rock solid proof of anything. I also agree with you that the bible could be shortened, as I have read in many times I have seen that parts relate to times past and have nothing to do with todays world and yes its not our book and not for us to do anything about it. I looked at the poll too and I guess Im classed as Agnostic Monotheist but I dont like to be classed as anything as its impossible for any human to say ” what I believe in its true, correct, factual and beyond any doubt unquestionable”
    Now with what you said of respect, I was raised to respect everyone nomatter what as it is the act of being courteous, what you mentioned is admiration.

    Hermes I really enjoy your opinions you make some good points but in the end neither of us is right or wrong but I dont think we are trying to say that anyway.
    Gern with your last comment you didnt seem to get my firt comment, its just references mate not my personal beliefs. Hermes seems to have alot better grasp of what I was talking about than you. To me it seems you like to sit back and knock others opinions with no educated responce to anything. Its an easy thing for a small minded person to do, isnt it? Take a page from Hermes book and respond with some intelligence.

  18. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:51 am 18.Gern Blansten said …

    Opinions mean very little. Show us evidence.

  19. on 22 Mar 2009 at 12:42 pm 19.Darrell said …

    HAHAHAHAHA Gern you have made my day and responded exactly the way I expected. The only thing on this website is OPINIONS!!!! So what you are saying is that everything YOU state on this site is fact that cannot be questioned and can be backed up with evidence that you have and can show me? Well show me then Im extremely curious.
    Ive seen no intelligent comment from you anywhere on this site, like I said before you just sit back and knock others opinions, also you ride behind Hermes comments with no profound input of your own. Im sure everyone else has noticed that too, “Hey Hermes check behind you to see if Gerns head is stuck in your arse”

    As for you asking me to show you evidence, evidence of what Gern????? Evidence that Im an open minded person? that I respect others opinions? that my opinions are just as valid as anyone elses? that I keep my beliefs open to the possibliity of a GOD?
    Well what Gern, what exactly is it that you want me to provide evidence of?

    Im sure there are alot of people sick of you on this site and your constant personal attacks. Have I at anytime attacked any of your beliefs? No because for starters I cant find anything on here where you have voiced your beliefs on any subject. Even if I did find something I wouldnt put you down or say what you believe is wrong. Every comment you have made to me is either sarcastic or rude.
    But you know what Gern I dont give a shit what you say to me and I sure wont lose any sleep over it, your just a feeble minded fool unable to communicate like a normal human to any person on this website.

    So Gern I put this challenge to you (thats if your able to form more than one sentence) answer my questions that Ive asked of you in this comment, in return Ill give you all the evidence I have in my beliefs. Are you up to it?????? Looking forward to your next responce

    Oh yeah sorry I had to resort to trash talk but it looks like the only thing you seem to understand

  20. on 22 Mar 2009 at 2:57 pm 20.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, I don’t even know what you’re blathering about. You babble so much nonsense, it’s hard to know what you even believe. Try to sum it up in a couple of sentences.

  21. on 22 Mar 2009 at 3:38 pm 21.Hermes said …

    Damn. Lost some comments due to family mini-emergency.

    As for Darrell, I’ve said my peace.

  22. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:10 pm 22.Darrell said …

    HAHAHA again Gern you made me laugh, Im sorry for the resopnce before i didnt relaise what a simple mind I was delaing with. If you couldnt understand what I wrote then your either illiterate or still a child.
    So here you go Gern Ill do my best to keep it as simple as possible for you ,ok,
    You asked me for evidence, I ask you evidence of what? simple question but no answer from you.

    Now you say its hard for you to understand what my beliefs are well here it is for you AGAIN ….
    I simply believe that there is the possibility that God may or may not exist.
    Can you understand that?

    As for the challenge I put to you before it still stands and Im still waiting for your responce

  23. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:24 pm 23.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, seriously, do you spell that poorly, or are you drunk?

    “God may or may not exist.”

    Well, duh. What other options are there?

  24. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:26 pm 24.Gern Blansten said …

    I think that Darrell is either human or not human.

    I think that dogs bark or don’t bark.

    I think that red is either my favorite color or it isn’t.

  25. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:27 pm 25.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, the truth is, I didn’t read your posts in their entirety. Too painful.

  26. on 22 Mar 2009 at 10:45 pm 26.Darrell said …

    Gern again you avoid to answer the tough questions.

    Ive answered yours so now you answer mine.

    As for “what other options are there?”
    Do you need one do you? Do you need to believe in something to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

    So Gern give me a straight answer not more of your sarcastic bullshit

  27. on 22 Mar 2009 at 11:04 pm 27.Gern Blansten said …

    I’ve forgotten the questions. Please restate them. No typos, please. Use your education, even if it is limited.

    As for sarcasm, how can I avoid it when you say things like, “I simply believe that there is the possibility that God may or may not exist.”

    Do you understand that there are no other possibilities?

  28. on 22 Mar 2009 at 11:07 pm 28.Gern Blansten said …

    I’ll answer this one:

    “Do you need to believe in something to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?”

    No, I don’t. I don’t believe in any god or gods. I don’t believe in arks or talking snakes or images of Jesus on a moldy tortilla. I don’t believe in burning bushes or in parting the Red Sea.

    I don’t CHOOSE not to believe. I simply don’t believe. It’s not like I set out to disbelieve, I just never found myself believing, even when I was young. Gods are a fairy tale told by Bronze Age goatherders.

  29. on 23 Mar 2009 at 1:46 am 29.Darrell said …

    Well done Gern, Im impressed, finally a real honest answer from you.
    That is great Gern I truly understand what you have said, I too was the same when I was young. At school I was banned from religious education classes because I asked to many questions so that just led me to believe that it was all crap.

    Thank you for sharing your belief with me Gern, see its not that hard to just speak your mind openly without resorting to sarcasm. There is nothing at all wrong with what you believe and the state of our world at the moment will make more people lean towards your beliefs.

    “I simply believe that there is the possibility that god may or may not exist”
    Thats my opinion Gern, you cannot say there are no other possibilities. How can you make such a claim? Thats just the same as saying ” sorry Darrell your wrong” If you can show a phsyical fact that its wrong then Ill embrace it with open arms.
    The simple fact that you dont agree is your view and you have the right to that view but you dont have the right to say your view is right and mine wrong just because you dont agree.
    In the matter of “Does God exist” the possibilities are infinate. We dont even understand our own galaxy let alone the rest of the universe as there are infinate possibilities out there.

  30. on 23 Mar 2009 at 1:53 am 30.Hermes said …

    Darrell: “In the matter of “Does God exist” the possibilities are infinate. We dont even understand our own galaxy let alone the rest of the universe as there are infinate possibilities out there.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    Many things in our imaginations could be in reality as well. Yet, what justification do we have to consider them to be so?

    As for the rest, I have no joy leaving that headache for Gern, though I do admit a bit of head shaking and laughter.

  31. on 23 Mar 2009 at 2:00 am 31.Darrell said …

    Oh I forgot the questions you asked about.

    One was you asked me to provide some evidence of something to which I wasn’t clear on what you actually wanted, so let me know what I can provide for you and Ill do my best to give it to you.

    The other was have you found some proof that God does not exist?

    That is all Gern, thanks again for your responce it was well said and understood. I hope you will do the same for my latest comments.

  32. on 23 Mar 2009 at 2:35 am 32.Hermes said …

    Darrell, I answered elsewhere.

  33. on 23 Mar 2009 at 4:53 am 33.Darrell said …

    Wow Hermes another link to a website, your so creative. I dont want to hear what some other dickhead thinks I want your view in your own words, thats if you truly understand your facts.

    Just refer to the same page where you answered elsewhere and you will see your downfall.

  34. on 23 Mar 2009 at 10:18 am 34.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, when you say, “I too was the same when I was young,” are you intentionally being condescending, or was it an accident? Your implication is that non-believers don’t have the wisdom of experience. Actually, the opposite is true. The more I live, the less I believe. All religions are fairy tales. There is no evidence for any of it.

    You keep asking me or Hermes to show evidence that there is no god. Sorry, but when you make an extraordinary claim, it’s up to you to provide evidence. If I said there was a zombie living in my basement, it would be up to move to provide evidence. Most people wouldn’t believe me just on faith. If I’m supposed to believe in god simply because people say he/she/it exists, then what about the thousands of other gods that man has invented? Ra? Zeus? Mordak? Ba’al? Am I supposed to believe in them, too?

    You keep saying you’re not a Christian, but my gut tells me you’re being dishonest.

    I don’t mind letting other people have their own beliefs–even really weird ones like Christianity–as long as those beliefs don’t affect my life. Unfortunately, religion affects me in bad ways every single day. It is a blight on humanity.

  35. on 23 Mar 2009 at 10:21 am 35.Gern Blansten said …

    Here are two options:

    1. God exists.

    2. God does not exist.

    Darrell, if there is a third option that doesn’t fall under one of these categories, please tell us what it is.

  36. on 23 Mar 2009 at 12:01 pm 36.Darrell said …

    Another good comment Gern your doing well.
    Ok Ill address the issues you brought up as Im not affraid to share my beliefs honestly and openly with those who have a genuine interest.

    What I meant with my comment on when I was young was that I asked these religious leaders questions that they would not answer so It put me on the path of non-belief of god and also of religion. As you know when your a child you are at your most impressionable to subjets of that nature so the outcome of my childhood experiences led me not to believe in god or religion.
    Do you understand that now?

    I also agree with you about religion just as I have stated before, I dont like it either but to say that it is directly affecting your life, WHAT !!! I dont understand ??? unless your living in a country where the catholic church controls the government but even then your still free to live the way you want.
    Gern if religion is affecting your way of life it is only because your letting it. Please tell me all these bad things that happen to you everyday that are caused by religion, maybe someone on here can help you somehow to overcome your problem. Im honestly interested and concerned in what you have said because that to me sounds like a serious situation your in, so please tell me of these bad things.

    Ok so you think Im a christian coz your gut tells you so, my gut tells me when Im hungry and need to take a crap. Just because Im neither a believer or non-believer doesnt make me a christian.

    You say that I keep asking you and Hermes for proof, yes that is correct. Do you not also ask me for proof? Yes you do, both of you have. You still havent answered my question on what exact proof you want me to show you, so Im still waiting for your answer.
    As for you saying you wont give proof to my extraordinary claim, again WHAT !! did I make the claim that god exists? NO i did not but you made the claim he doesnt, so in your own words Gern your the one who has to provide the proof, am I right? or did I missunderstand you?
    So prove to everyone Gern that god 100% does not exist.
    Its the simple fact that it cannot be proven from either side that brings me to my personal beleifs that god may or may not exist. Can you understand that now?
    Why would I state that yes god exists or no he doenst if I cant prove it myself?
    So is it not the most logical option for me to believe what I believe?

    So Gern please please please try to prove that wrong if you can, as both you and Hermes seem to have some vast knowledge that no other humans have that enables you to prove everyone wrong that doesnt share your views.

    Last answer….
    1. God exists 2. God does not exist 3. God might exist 4 . God might not exist 5. We exist 6. We do not exist 7. We might exist 8. We might not exist 9. The earth exists 10. The earth does not exist 11. What is existence

    Would you like me to complete the list ? and dont try to tell me that the other options dont relate to god, of course they do because without those options how can anything be considered “real”
    Like Ive already told you possibilities are infinate, untill you have unlocked every secret the universe you cannot make any assumption on anything.

    Even if someone believes in some absolutely insane idea there is always going to be the possibility that he is correct, even if we know for certain he is wrong there is always the possibility that we are wrong. So Gern dont you ever say to me or anyone that there are no possibilities, it makes you look like the insane one.

    Now I have answered every single comment you have brought up with me, I expect you to do the same, take your time and read carefully as I do ask alot of questions.

  37. on 23 Mar 2009 at 12:08 pm 37.Darrell said …

    Sorry I lied, I said I had addressed all issues, I missed one.
    No you dont have to believe in God or the thousands of other Gods just because people say they exist. Why would you have to? Its your own personal choice to believe what you want to.

    Thats the main point Im trying to get through to all you hard headed people on here.
    Nomatter what you believe someone will believe something else and you cannot tell them otherwise, even if God appeared infront of you Gern you will still have the choice not to believe its God.

  38. on 23 Mar 2009 at 12:19 pm 38.Gern Blansten said …

    It is incumbent on any person making an extraordinary claim to provide evidence——assuming they care if anyone believes them. Asserting the existence of any god is an extraordinary claim.

    I base my beliefs on science and the real world. Evidence. There’s as much evidence for Yahweh as there is for Zeus, which is none.

    Religion affects me in the form of the ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, the ban on gay marriage, boards of education attempting to deny evolution, planes flying into buildings, wars around the world, genocide, the ban on assisted suicide, abstinence-only sex ed, on and on.

    Darrell, don’t be a troll. Don’t pretend to be ignorant of these things.

  39. on 23 Mar 2009 at 5:16 pm 39.Hermes said …

    Darrell: “Wow Hermes another link to a website, your so creative. I dont want to hear what some other dickhead thinks I want your view in your own words, thats if you truly understand your facts.”

    You’re using the argument from ignorance in the message(s) I was replying to. It’s a common fallacy. I posted a link just in case you are not aware of common philosophical terms.

    The rest of the comment contains my additional thoughts on your post beyond the argument from ignorance.

    When you use sarcasm, it’s important to know what you are actually commenting on. If not, it falls flat.

  40. on 23 Mar 2009 at 5:20 pm 40.Hermes said …

    Gern Blansten: “I base my beliefs on science and the real world. Evidence. There’s as much evidence for Yahweh as there is for Zeus, which is none.”

    Well, that’s only because Zeus has mellowed and now just hangs out with the other true gods of the Greek Pantheon. So far, Yahweh hasn’t shown up at any of the conventions.

    ;-}

  41. on 23 Mar 2009 at 5:26 pm 41.Hermes said …

    Darrell: “Nomatter what you believe someone will believe something else and you cannot tell them otherwise,”

    Hmmm…yeah we can. It’s called free speech. It is also effective when we focus on reality as opposed to dogma.

    Darrell: “even if God appeared infront of you Gern you will still have the choice not to believe its God.”

    Phillip K. Dick wrote;

    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”

    If one or more deities exist, how would it be possible to choose that they did not if they appeared? The same goes the other way, as well; if there is no evidence, like the Emperor’s New Clothes, how would it be possible to choose anything but absence as reality?

  42. on 23 Mar 2009 at 7:25 pm 42.Gern Blansten said …

    Yahweh is so damn conceited. You have to, like, believe in him and stuff before he’ll, like, even respond when you talk to him.

  43. on 23 Mar 2009 at 10:29 pm 43.Darrell said …

    Gern you still fail to answer any of the questions I have asked, I answered you in full detail everything you asked of me. Why cant you do the same?
    I want details Gern, just answer the questions or is it to hard for you or maybe you dont have any answers.
    One more time Gern Im not the one making any claim to god existing or not existing, YOU are so again in your own text PROVE IT.
    So all those things you mentioned affect your life directly everyday, if so HOW? details please Gern..

    Hermes you again have proven my point, well done moron, I love how you keep showing your true colors and clearly stating what a narrow minded arrogant anal arsehole you really are.
    You have just clearly said in your comment that you and Gern both have the divine right to tell people what they believe is wrong, well Hermes that is what you said right? please correct me if im mistaken, Im sure you will try anyway as you seem to think you are a GOD.
    Freedom of speech gives you the right to voice your opinion, nothing more Hermes, in no way does it give you the right to say that you are 100% correct and all who oppose me are 100% wrong.
    Thats what you have just said you have the right to do. Sorry Hermes but your done, no person can ever take what you say seriously.

  44. on 23 Mar 2009 at 11:19 pm 44.Hermes said …

    Darrell, since you have ignored what I have posted clearly and repeatedly, I will do you the same favor. Blow.

  45. on 23 Mar 2009 at 11:25 pm 45.Gern Blansten said …

    Darrell, you are on the verge of becoming a drooling simpleton.

    You have no understanding of logic or debate. It’s the person who makes an extraordinary claim who has to provide evidence for it. Denying the existence of a god or gods is NOT making an extraordinary claim.

    Also, you don’t “prove” things in science, you collect evidence in support of a theory. You didn’t pay attention in school, did you?

    There are religious lunatics who say the world will end in 2012. I say they’re wrong. THEY are the ones who need to provide evidence for their claim. I don’t need to provide evidence that they are wrong. Same thing is true when people claim that gods exist. They need to provide the evidence, not me.

    If I say a leprechaun lives in my hall closet, and somebody else says that’s not true, would you ask that person to provide evidence that there ISN’T a leprechaun living in my hall closet, or would you instead expect me to provide evidence that there IS a leprechaun living in my hall closet?

    Quit being a pinhead.

    Also, my best friend has MS and will probably die from it eventually. Meanwhile, religious zealots have caused a major delay in embryonic stem-cell research. If you think that’s nothing to complain about, you can fuck right off.

  46. on 23 Mar 2009 at 11:34 pm 46.Hermes said …

    Gern, indeed. If the change in stem cell research policies came early enough for your friend, that would be a good thing. Yet, till then, any court would call MS torture if inflicted by human hands intentionally as opposed to being caused by a disease. Yet, torture and death is effectively what is being advocated much of the time in the name of Christianity when Christians give religious reasons for blocking stem cell and other promising research and preventative processes.

  47. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:12 am 47.Darrell said …

    Again both of you, straight out with the insults, but its ok I dont mind I can give back as good as I get and anyway words are words and cannot damage me in any way, stand in front of me though and take a swing at me, I can guarantee you will never stand again.
    Do you both continue to just throw insults and avoid my questions because I threaten your beliefs and now you are questioning yourselves ?

    Gern I agree with those statements you made, OK, some of it is awefull and I too wish things could be different. BUT you still have not explained to me how each of those things affects your life badly every single day. You just give one example which affects your friends life not yours, I understand you care very much about them but its not your problem.
    So again Gern just answer the questions.
    Honestly mate you seem to have some serious trouble answering. If you dont understand the question then just ask its not to hard.
    Why do you keep repeating this crap about proof Gern, fuck me dead I understand, what I dont understand is why you keep telling me, so let me make this clear IM NOT MAKING ANY CLAIM, YOU ARE and just because you dont deem your claim extraordinary why is it a less questionable topic?
    Do you think because your claim is not extraordinary that you are untouchable?
    Have you ever stopped to think that there are people out there that would claim your claim to be extraordinary? Im not one of them but as Ive been trying to say all along to the blindness of you and Hermes every single person thinks differently and sees things differently so for fuck sake stop trying to convert others and telling them they are wrong.

    Hermes you still here? Ive ignored what you posted ??????????
    If I ignored what you posted then how can I have possibly used your own words to show clearly that you have no idea what you talk of and what you believe???

  48. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:25 am 48.Gern Blansten said …

    My claim: There is no god.

    My “proof”: There is no evidence of god.

    My second claim: You’re a blithering idiot.

    My evidence: All of your posts.

    Religious zealots affect public policy. That affects my daily life.

    Religious zealots undermine public education. That affects my daily life.

    Religious zealots hamper scientific investigation. That affects my daily life.

    Religious zealots hamper medical advancements. That affects my daily life.

    Religious zealots cause wars, in case you haven’t noticed. That affects my daily life.

    You say my friend’s illness isn’t my problem? That makes you a true scumbag.

  49. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:26 am 49.Gern Blansten said …

    “stand in front of me though and take a swing at me, I can guarantee you will never stand again.”

    Ah, yes, the mark of a real genius. Threats of violence.

  50. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:43 am 50.Anonymous said …

    Gern, spend time on this one if you wish, though I’m done with Darrell-Lou. Where’s the challenge? I suspect (as you might as well) that there is an intent to deceive and little else.

  51. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:44 am 51.Hermes said …

    [ Oops... the last post was mine. ]

  52. on 24 Mar 2009 at 1:59 am 52.Gern Blansten said …

    He’s an odd one, for sure. Most of the time, it’s unclear what he’s even saying or asking. Off his meds, perhaps? Can’t seem to grasp the simplest concepts. Definitely has a chip on his shoulder about something. Can’t follow the most basic logic. What a waste of time.

  53. on 24 Mar 2009 at 3:24 am 53.Darrell said …

    Stop referring to me as Lou, do so and Ill refer to you and HermesGern. Im not that insecure that I need an alterego to support me. Do you Hermes?

    Gern I didnt mean any offence to your friend, Im truly sorry about that.
    As for your answers still no specific detail, what you said is just day to day political rubbish.
    I want to fully understand how each problem affects you in a specific sence, not just generalizations, thats a piss weak effort.

    I do like what you said earlier about proof and science, same as Hermes you have just shot yourself in the foot and made your case null and void.
    You are correct Gern when it all comes down to it after collecting so called evidence you simply end up with a theory. A THEORY Gern not proof as you yourself stated. Yet you also say you base all your beliefs on science and then say that science doesnt prove anything. Who is unclear now of what he is saying Gern?

    So tell me what exactly is the point that your trying to argue??
    Ive told you mine many times but you seem to never comment on it.
    Hermes did comment on my point with the most disgusting thing Ive ever heard.

    Just answer the question Gern in full not half arsed, ok.

  54. on 24 Mar 2009 at 6:27 am 54.Darrell said …

    Gern Hermes, my younger brother has taken a look at all of this and while laughing his arse off at you both came up with a point that I had failed to think of.
    Are you both American?
    That would explain why some questions I ask you dont seem to be able to understand and why you seem to think I cant spell.
    So are you?

    My bro also brought my attention to you Hermes using many different names on here. I think he is right. How many times have you commented as anonymous then corrected yourself when you want us to know that its you. Your name should be constantly in the name box above unless your using other names aswell. Mine never changes on here its always there.

    Germ oh sorry Gern read my last comment and give a proper responce using your BIG BOY words, I want detailed answers addressing the specifics.

  55. on 24 Mar 2009 at 7:27 am 55.Darrell said …

    Gern your last comment to me ‘I cant follow the most basic logic and cant seem to grasp the simplest concepts’. Dont you really mean to say that I cant follow your logic and grasp your concepts?
    What do you base this judgment on?

    Enlighten me Gern Im curious.

    But first address the other questions above, take your time.

  56. on 24 Mar 2009 at 7:48 am 56.Darrell said …

    Also you say Ive a chip on my shoulder. Yes your right I actually have 2 chips on there named Hermes and Gern. If you simply accepted my views as to be neither right or wrong I would have been satisfied but no you have the nerve to say Im wrong in what I believe and then try to tell me your beliefs are the correct ones and I should believe that yet offering nothing to me that could open my eyes to any truths you seem to believe in.

  57. on 24 Mar 2009 at 9:17 pm 57.Darrell said …

    Any answers yet Gern? Still thinking? Did my comment on your disbelief in science bring your world crashing down around you as you yourself stated you base all your beliefs in science?

    Hermes told me thats hes not sure how many people he has helped with his method of bashing his own views into their minds.
    So I think Ill take a leaf from his book and state that it looks like Ive helped one sofar, glad I could be of assistence Gern.

  58. on 24 Mar 2009 at 10:33 pm 58.rooney fan said …

    Darrel, your being a wanker. Let it go.

  59. on 24 Mar 2009 at 11:17 pm 59.Hermes said …

    [ tips hat to Rooney Fan ]

  60. on 25 Mar 2009 at 4:23 am 60.Darrell said …

    Nice rooney fan insult me aswell.
    If you have a problem with my comments then point out where you disagree its that simple. But dont just come on and throw insults what are you proving?

    Lets see some input from you then!

    You see rooney fan when I ask a question I expect an answer in detail. Am I asking to much? I dont think so but Gern sure seems to think I am.

    Im not going to insult you back rooney fan, so put up your case or piss off.

  61. on 25 Mar 2009 at 4:38 am 61.Darrell said …

    Gern, take your time, I can wait.

  62. on 25 Mar 2009 at 10:07 am 62.Darrell said …

    I dont like it when people are judgemental, like my boyfriend says I don’t bath properly and begin to smell like moldy cheese. If I want to smell like cheese thats my choice not his.

  63. on 25 Mar 2009 at 10:30 am 63.Darrell said …

    Very clever use my name. GUTLESS

    To affraid to answer the questions

  64. on 25 Mar 2009 at 10:35 am 64.Darrell said …

    Of course, Im mistaken, you did answer the qeustions, but Im too obtuse to admit that.

    Also I condemn people for sharing their beliefs while Im sharing my own beliefs. I am a hipocrite.

    I guess I owe everyone here an apology/

  65. on 25 Mar 2009 at 10:35 am 65.Darrell said …

    How many Darrells are there?

    I think six.

  66. on 25 Mar 2009 at 10:36 am 66.Darrell said …

    This cracks me up.

    Lets all be darrell!

  67. on 25 Mar 2009 at 11:35 am 67.Lumpin said …

    Wow, Darrell, I just read comment #10 above. You really are a hypocrite, aren’t you?

    You are obviously a Christian who is angry about this site. Why are you disguising your true motives?

    And what’s all this about Satan and the end of the world?

    You really have gone off the deep end.

  68. on 25 Mar 2009 at 12:03 pm 68.Darrell said …

    Lumpin
    again point taken. I see how you deem it to be hypocriticle. #10
    In my defence I was only referring to the bible and I admit got a little carried away with the biblical crap, the end was supposed to be humor as its all talk of religion on here. I guess I didnt pull it off as intended.

    So I accept your disagreement Lumpin.

    Now Id like to see your views on the topic of this blog as you have challenged me, let me have the same chance.

  69. on 25 Mar 2009 at 12:16 pm 69.Hermes said …

    ROTFL! |-}

  70. on 25 Mar 2009 at 12:20 pm 70.Lumpin said …

    I know better than to argue with someone as belligerent as you.

  71. on 25 Mar 2009 at 7:04 pm 71.Darrell said …

    Lumpin, nice resopnce.

    Insults with no real thoughts of your own, only means you think Im right as you cant find the words to disagree.

  72. on 25 Mar 2009 at 7:25 pm 72.Lumpin said …

    I’ve seen how you behave. You would end up calling me an idiot and threatening me with violence. You’ve done it to others in the past. Perhaps that is why they don’t want to talk to you.

  73. on 25 Mar 2009 at 7:31 pm 73.Lumpin said …

    Darrell, on another thread, you said:

    “Hermes and Gern I hope you enjoy my pionts of view and remember that thats all they are nothing more, so keep voicing your opinions because its the only way to help others see things from a different angle”

    See, you encouraged them to keep voicing their opinions, but then you changed your mind and started attacking them. You have to admit that doesn’t make much sense.

  74. on 25 Mar 2009 at 8:02 pm 74.Lou said …

    First time I looked at this article. Intersting, webmaster states

    “There will come a tipping point where Christianity is seen as insanity”

    I don’t think so. Has anyone typed in atheist on YouTube? Some of them are as bad as any fire & brimstone preacher. It is either passion or drug induced hysteria.

    What is more likely to happen as we continue to decline into socialism and thus a weaker and poorer nation is that we will see more and more restrictions on churches and worship. This is actually a great experience for original Christianity since where Christianity is oppressed it actually grows by leaps and bounds. That is the phenomena of the underground church in China today.

  75. on 25 Mar 2009 at 8:04 pm 75.Hermes said …

    Darrell, wherever you post, I’m just enjoying the energy you pour into this. Usually it’s the other way around. I figure in a few decades we’ll be even. Till then, I’m not reading your posts. Really.

  76. on 25 Mar 2009 at 8:13 pm 76.The other Darrell said …

    Hermes, my apologies for making Darrell think all the other Darrells are you. It’s just me, a lurker, having some fun. I’ve seen a lot of humorless people on this site, but he takes the prize, don’t you think?

  77. on 25 Mar 2009 at 9:01 pm 77.Hermes said …

    Sometimes mockery is the only proper response.

  78. on 26 Mar 2009 at 5:45 am 78.Darrell said …

    Lumpin,
    Yes I agree, but to see things from a different angle does not mean to convert ones beleif.

    Show me if Ive tried to convert?

    You stated me attacking, again yes I agree but not everyone just a select 2 who if disagree with an opinion never answer with intelligence.

    Look Im completely open for responce not like others, so keep them comming

  79. on 26 Mar 2009 at 5:46 am 79.Darrell said …

    Herems Ive answered elswhere

  80. on 26 Mar 2009 at 6:51 am 80.Darrell said …

    Lumpin Ive another comment for you on the other blog.

  81. on 27 Mar 2009 at 8:38 am 81.Darrell said …

    LOU

    #74 good point.

    But just watch the atheists try to disagree with you.

    Atheist says “we are not insane or delusional only christians are, we are right and everyone else wrong, we dont believe in god but we still want you to prove to us that he does exist” (atheist then goes to slam hand on table only to miss and hit the saggy bit of flesh where his dick and balls once were)

    Its a dead end Lou, we cant discuss any view with an atheist as they have all the answers already.

  82. on 28 Mar 2009 at 1:31 pm 82.Jeff Carter said …

    The contention that Christianity is going to collapse anytime soon is a pipe dream and here’s why:

    The rise in atheism you see in popular culture is simply that the philosophy of the intellectual elite has finally trickled down to the masses. In other words, the rational empiricism of Russell and the Logical Positivists of the 1920s is just now flourishing among the common man.

    What is not commonly known is that Russell and the positivists had failures and major embarrassments to their philosophy to the point that a counter, or continental philosophy still flourishes in Europe. Thus, any rise in atheism can be accounted for as an Anglo-American bias.

    In fact, within continental philosophy there has been a resurgence of Christian theology, for example, in the philosophy of Paul Ricoeur and Michel Henry. This, too, will eventually trickle down, and far from of seeing a collapse, you will see a strengthening of Christianity. I have blogged about both the bias and Michel Henry’s work on my website.

  83. on 28 Mar 2009 at 2:05 pm 83.Lou said …

    Jeff I always had the impression when reading Russell that he somehow always had the underlying need need to discredit Hume. Consequently, he suffered from an inferior complex to Hume in my estimation.

    But do give him some credit. He finally did admit that most of what passes for knowledge is open to reasonable doubt.

  84. on 28 Mar 2009 at 4:00 pm 84.Thomas Beha said …

    Darrell – you say the end is coming? That is fatalism, a sure sign that you are not even thinking intelligently. Humans have been around for million of years and we need to promote peace the best we can. The way to do that is eliminate extremism found in my religious teaching such as the you that you got baited by it. Extremism makes humans dangerous animals.

    My definition of small minded people are folks who will not think outside of the box and learn from it.
    You apparently demonstrate the clear intention to be small minded, Darrell.

    The Sun God is an old time religion going back to Egypt which is what chistianity is all along.

  85. on 28 Mar 2009 at 5:40 pm 85.Jeff Carter said …

    Lou,
    You are absolutely correct. Russell wanted to join Moore in his attempt at common sense realism but left that when Moore began to encounter serious problems; he was to ground mathematics – but was refuted by Godel; and he wanted refute Hume but yes, admitted himself that he failed at this. My sense was that he was driven by a incredible desire for certainty. He admitted he loved geometry but hated that you had to begin with assumptions (axioms) not proofs.

    My point here is that popular culture received the motives behind the work by Russell and the positivists but ignores the failures.

  86. on 28 Mar 2009 at 8:52 pm 86.Darrell said …

    Thomas, that comment I first made was supposed to be satirical humor. As this is a site having a go at religion I thought Id talk from a religious standpoint.

    Im not religious Thomas, in the end I dont even care if god does or doesnt exist but as I have read the bible many times it would be nice if god did exist as the bible paints a picture of a wonderful world we could have.

    I can understand why some need to believe in god to give them hope, its a good thing. The bad thing is the religious leaders that twist the word of the bible and brainwash their followers, that fact Thomas I find to be unfair to the weak minded.

  87. on 29 Mar 2009 at 2:53 am 87.Darrell said …

    Also Thomas you call me small minded. Small minded people are those who say god does exist and god doesnt exist!!

  88. on 02 Apr 2009 at 6:17 am 88.GotMooo said …

    I see the bible as nothing more than written by people with an agenda. Just like many other holy books. Just reading the OT can certainly show the politics involved. The Israelites were killing people for worshiping other gods and for not worshiping any. God drowned hundreds of millions of people, which of course, went against free will. The lord sent an angel to kill hundreds of thousands of men, I guess because they weren’t on the chosen people’s side.

    And now the bible’s vague prophecies are being called out as having merit. I liked the part about the stars falling out of the sky, sounded like something I’d like to see.

    A real threat coming from religious zealots, is self-fulfilled prophecy. Basically some of the more realistic prophecies (People dying everywhere, etc) only come true, because people believe them, and so they act on them. But then it isn’t really a prophecy, it is more like a directive.

    Sounds like an agenda to me.

  89. on 02 Apr 2009 at 9:49 am 89.Hermes said …

    GotMooo: “Sounds like an agenda to me.”

    Agreed. I’d settle for them not blowing up the planet and killing everyone. As Marcus Brigstocke said;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg

  90. on 02 Apr 2009 at 7:44 pm 90.GotMooo said …

    I liked the part he said about religious moderates. “They have to accept that they are the power base for the nutters. Without their passive support, the looneys in charge of these faiths, would just be looneys, safely locked away and medicated.”

  91. on 02 Apr 2009 at 8:06 pm 91.Hermes said …

    GotMooo, indeed. I’m a proponent of ‘Better living through chemistry’ in these instances.

  92. on 28 Jul 2009 at 7:23 am 92.Apollo said …

    I realize this is a bit late to come into the conversation, but oh well.
    Major props to Gern and Hermes for combatting the scourge that is Darrel.

    As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, Darrel is either a closet Christian (he does possess a rather fondness for the literature of Christian mythology), or is under the postmodern-esque idea that there is no objective knowledge to be had because everything is based only opinion, that it’s all relative, all that jazz.

    Pretty much all empirical evidence we possess for anything and everything would dispel this notion, and although we may never reach absolute truth, we certainly can learn a great deal about the world we live in, and in all practical senses, this is objective and reliable. We cannot be 100% sure the sun will rise tomorrow, but it would be rather silly to think it wouldn’t.

    We have the right to free speech. It does not mean we can only voice our opinions, it means we can criticize whatever we may deem fit. The idea that you shouldn’t have the right to subject whatever crackpot delusional belief to the harsh and scathing criticism is deserves it ludicrous. If I propose that there is a magical unicorn fluttering about it the sky that is all powerful, invisible, farts sunshine and lollipops, is incapable of being detected by any of our means of observation, and its existence is neither provable nor disprovable, should that be given the same value as, oh, I dunno, the theory of gravity? Should I be given a pat on the back? No, of course not. Not all ideas are created equal. Some are seriously just fucking dumb.

    The term “god” is a bit vague, but is generally defined as being a supernatural being, which in the major monotheistic religions, is the creator of the universe, source for all moral authority, yadda yadda yadda. This being either exists or it doesn’t. It’s existence or nonexistence is not dependent on our own existence, or of the earth’s, or whatever. He’s just babbling in semantics.

    In addition, he’s claimed to respect all people’s beliefs, ideas, whatever, but of course gets increasingly hostile and will only tolerate his own belief being voiced, that we should all be subject to the crippling indecision he is. Oh, and also: he’s a condescending fuck. Not that that would make his arguments wrong (I wouldn’t wish to commit an Ad Hominem, here), it’s just that he’s a condescending fuck.

  93. on 28 Jul 2009 at 2:39 pm 93.Moose said …

    It’s not an ad hominem to attack or abuse him as long as that doesn’t carry your argument.

  94. on 28 Jul 2009 at 4:38 pm 94.Apollo said …

    I know, that’s why I specified that his fuckwaddery doesn’t necessarily make him wrong. : )

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