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Christianity Johnson on 09 Mar 2009 12:01 am

The delusion of Christians never ceases to amaze…

Here is the latest example of deep Christian delusion:

Famed pastor predicts imminent catastrophe

The article puts it this way:

A respected pastor, best-selling author and founder of a major ministry to teens predicts an imminent “an earth-shattering calamity” centered in New York City that will spread to major urban areas across the country and around the world – part of what he sees as a judgment from God.

David Wilkerson, author of “The Cross and the Switchblade,” a book about his ministry to troubled New York street kids that was later made into a movie starring Pat Boone, tells readers of his blog this weekend that he is “compelled by the Holy Spirit to send out an urgent message” about his prediction.

“An earth-shattering calamity is about to happen,” he writes. “It is going to be so frightening, we are all going to tremble – even the godliest among us.”

Wilkerson’s vision is of fires raging through New York City.

“It will engulf the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut. Major cities all across America will experience riots and blazing fires – such as we saw in Watts, Los Angeles, years ago,” he explains. “There will be riots and fires in cities worldwide. There will be looting – including Times Square, New York City. What we are experiencing now is not a recession, not even a depression. We are under God’s wrath. In Psalm 11 it is written, “If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?”

You read that, and, if you were to believe it, it is AMAZING. The all-knowing Holy Spirit Exists! The Holy Spirit is talking to people on earth today, foretelling the future! That means that it does not take away free will for the Holy Spirit to expose itself to people! Meaning that the Holy Spirit can openly expose itself to all! Wow!

And then, what would be your VERY NEXT QUESTION? The burning question that you HAVE TO ASK immediately upon hearing of this revelation? It would, of course, be WHEN??? On what day will this raging fire engulf “the whole megaplex, including areas of New Jersey and Connecticut”, so that we may take action to avert the disaster and save untold thousands of lives?

Oh, sorry, the Holy Spirit won’t say:

“I do not know when these things will come to pass, but I know it is not far off,” Wilkerson concluded in his message. “I have unburdened my soul to you. Do with the message as you choose.”

31 Responses to “The delusion of Christians never ceases to amaze…”

  1. on 09 Mar 2009 at 1:37 pm 1.T. Nelson said …

    You profess to be college educated, therefore I’ll assume you to be a man who would be open to scientific facts if you were offered them, or directed to there location. So I shall give you this challenge to read The Case For Christ and The Case For Faith, both written by ex-Atheist, now devout Christian, Lee Strobel. Who like myself was never aware that such facts existed. Leaving me asking the same questions you ask. Convincing myself I was far to intelligent to believe such hog wash as Noah, Jonas, Man from dust,Jesus the son of God! I mean come on, what, am I an Idiot?

    Yes I was. For I had doubts about my religion before reading these books, When completed I was educated with scientific proof that the Bible is the most factual book of antiquities ever written by man and the paper trail is available to prove to you and others of so little faith, such as myself at the time, that Jesus Christ died for you and I. Becoming the first of the dead to ever be resurrected, which was witnessed by over 2,500 people most of whom were not followers of him until they saw with their own eyes him in his angelic body. Then and only then did they not only believe he was the son of God but the majority of them were persecuted, tortured and many put to death for not denouncing there faith that he was who he said he was. Would you or anyone who believes themselves to be an intelligent human, die for a lie? Or watch their family members, their wives, Sons or Daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, being beaten before them and all they had to do was denounce that this carpenter from Nazareth was not the son of God. If it were a lie. I know I wouldn’t.

    You’ll find out for yourself if you read these books that your ten typical Atheist questions and more are answered by some of the worlds most intelligent scientists on this planet. Men and women with far more credentials then you or at least I have.

    So if that is the best argument you have to base your decision of eternal life on, and to be eternally void of Gods unconditional love, (which by the way would be hell), I recommend you read the books I’ve suggested, before you freely choose your eternal destination. After all, you are I’ll presume, intelligent enough to believe facts once your presented them. Then you my brother can still receive the greatest gift one can be offered, eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, Amen.
    But if for some reason you refuse to take the time to read them and go to your grave not educating yourself to the best of ones ability, on such a huge issue as this. Than your not, I’m sorry to say, as smart as you believe yourself to be.
    P.S. I as a Christian have a hard time understanding the reason why man inflicts such terrible violations upon ourselves and others but I also know I am intelligent enough to realize that the creator of the universe just might have a reason, no matter how cliche it may sound, that you and I aren’t capable of understanding. Or am I to presume you believe that you have similar qualifications as God / Divine Creator,or there simply has to be an explanation for everything since you believe there is no God and we are lead to believe that no intelligent person in there right mind could ever be so foolish as to believe in such tom foolery and have, ( hold it, here it comes, are you ready) FAITH.

    Faith so strong i am blessed with the knowledge that my future looks much brighter than someone who believes in nothing….. now to me that sounds like a foolish mistake made by someone who hasn’t looked into the facts and you I am sure wouldn’t be so foolish as to do something like this unless you may think you would look foolish to all the Intelligent non believers who would possibly call you one of those less educated Christians like myself. Oh well I guess I’ll just have to grin and bare it………. have a nice day.
    Oh yeah I almost forgot, God Bless You and I hope you take the time, so maybe we can chat in the near future somewhere in the heavens….

  2. on 09 Mar 2009 at 3:27 pm 2.Hermes said …

    T. Nelson: I don’t think you’ll get a direct response from the author(s) of this blog or the videos.

    As for Lee Strobel, there have been a few threads on him and his work on the forums. One that I started is here;

    “Lee Strobel Answers Your Questions, Part 1, 2 & 3”

    It covers Hemant Mehta’s blog post over at Friendly Atheist where Mr. Strobel responded to comments posted to him on Mr. Mehta’s blog.

    So, if you follow the link you can see comments from the folks here as well as links back to more comments from those posting at Friendly Atheist.

  3. on 09 Mar 2009 at 3:43 pm 3.Hermes said …

    T. Nelson: “But if for some reason you refuse to take the time to read them and go to your grave not educating yourself to the best of ones ability, on such a huge issue as this. Than your not, I’m sorry to say, as smart as you believe yourself to be.”

    Excuse me. Did you even bother to ask first before jumping to conclusions about someone? Are threats and bigotry really necessary?

    If you spoke to me that way, I’d demand an apology — and if I did not get it, I would treat you in the same manner.

  4. on 09 Mar 2009 at 8:49 pm 4.Gern Blansten said …

    T. Nelson said Jesus was “the first of the dead to ever be resurrected.”

    Sorry, T., I hate to burst your bubble, but have you heard of Osiris?

    This is from Wikipedia:

    Osiris (Greek language, also Usiris; the Egyptian language name is variously transliterated Asar, Aser, Ausar, Ausir, Wesir, or Ausare) was an Egyptian god, usually called the god of the Afterlife.

    Osiris is one of the oldest gods for whom records have been found; one of the oldest known attestations of his name is on the Palermo Stone of around 2500 BC. He was widely worshipped until the suppression of the Egyptian religion during the Christian era.[1][2]The information we have on the myths of Osiris is derived from allusions contained in the Pyramid Texts (ca. 2400 BC), later New Kingdom source documents such as the Shabaka Stone and the Contending of Horus and Seth, and much later, in narrative style from the writings of Greek authors including Plutarch[3] and Diodorus Siculus.[4]

    Osiris was not only a merciful judge of the dead in the afterlife, but also the underworld agency that granted all life, including sprouting vegetation and the fertile flooding of the Nile River. The Kings of Egypt were associated with Osiris in death — as Osiris rose from the dead they would, in union with him, inherit eternal life through a process of imitative magic. By the New Kingdom all people, not just pharaohs, were believed to be associated with Osiris at death if they incurred the costs of the assimilation rituals.[5]

    Osiris was at times considered the oldest son of the Earth god, Geb,[6] and the sky goddess, Nut as well as being brother and husband of Isis, with Horus being considered his posthumously begotten son.[6]

    Osiris was later associated with the name Khenti-Amentiu, which means ‘Foremost of the Westerners’ a reference to his kingship in the land of the dead.

  5. on 09 Mar 2009 at 8:52 pm 5.Gern Blansten said …

    T. Nelson, Osiris was just one of many gods who “rose from the dead.”

    The bible is a bunch of recycled mythology. Religion might make you feel good about yourself, but that doesn’t mean there is a god.

    You talk about scientific facts proving that prove god or the bible or jesus, but those facts don’t exist. They are only rhetoric and babble.

    Face reality. Be logical. You might be happy to learn that it’s not hard to live without a fictional god.

  6. on 10 Mar 2009 at 12:59 am 6.Gern Blansten said …

    WWGHA, keep up the good work. We’re making progress in slowly getting away from Bronze Age mythology.

    (CNN) — America is a less Christian nation than it was 20 years ago, and Christianity is not losing out to other religions, but primarily to a rejection of religion altogether, a survey published Monday found.

    Seventy-five percent of Americans call themselves Christian, according to the American Religious Identification Survey from Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut. In 1990, the figure was 86 percent.

  7. on 10 Mar 2009 at 1:39 am 7.Hermes said …

    GB: Indeed.

  8. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:12 pm 8.rational? said …

    dna is like a design and like every complex design it must have a designer. Therfore there must be something out there that is bigger and better than us its very dilusional to think that we are the most intelligent creatures in this world if you belive in nothing than what is left?

  9. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:13 pm 9.rational? said …

    “hermes” really?

  10. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:20 pm 10.rational? said …

    christians arent delusional they believe they have faith whats wrong with that? you belive in science well they belive in god the only diffrence between them and you is that they arent arrogant and they dont judge you.

  11. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:24 pm 11.rational? said …

    you people have a lot of damn nerve to judge others for what they choose to belive in.

  12. on 11 Mar 2009 at 5:28 pm 12.truth said …

    So what you are trying to say is that scientist are always right? wrong. years ago the greatest most brilliant minds of that time belived that the world was flat. These people where scientist. So you want to say christains are delusional? Just because you cant see something it doesnt mean its not there.Can you see air? Is it there? Yes it is.

  13. on 11 Mar 2009 at 6:22 pm 13.Hermes said …

    Rational?: Yes.


    I don’t know what you mean by “dna is like a design and like every complex design it must have a designer.” Please write something a bit more exact.

    As for ‘faith vs. science’, that is a false comparison. Plenty of people who are religious have no problem with science, so why should you? Are they wrong?

    As for judging others … you did that in this thread, yet you criticize others for doing the same. Guess what word I’m thinking of? It starts with an H.

    Another longer comment is coming…

  14. on 11 Mar 2009 at 6:24 pm 14.Hermes said …

    rational? & truth;

    I have noticed, as you may have as well, that there are Christians that do things in the name of Christianity that are negative. Christians that promote bigotry and ignorance. Christians that advocate actions that lead to harm and even death. Christians that advocate not caring about this world and who want it to be destroyed in a polluted and fiery apocalypse.

    If there were enough Christians that effectively dealt with those problems, I would not have any concerns. Believe as you want. As far as I would be concerned, the real world problems would be solved.

    Unfortunately, that is not the world we are in. Most Christians aren’t doing nearly enough. Many unfortunately are actively promoting these negative goals — from paying money passively to going out and doing these negative actions themselves. Some of the strongest advocates for those negative actions are the leaders and congregants of the larger Christian churches and organizations; this is not a problem with a few fringe groups or eccentric cult leaders.

    Too many Christians not only do not take responsibility, they are leading the charge for these negative actions. They justify bigotry and ignorance, they justify actions that result in the deaths of others that could be easily avoided.

    As a responsible person, someone who cares about the world and the future of humanity, I have to act. Even if it is not my fault that these Christians are doing harm, it is my responsibility to do something positive. You can consider it a moral obligation. If that means that I have to hold up a mirror so that my fellow humans look at what they believe, then I’ll take that modest step. Maybe that will be enough to drain the air out of some of those bad ideas?

    *** My question to you is not what you believe, but…

    What are you doing about the acts your fellow Christians perform in the name of Christianity that spread hate, bigotry, ignorance, pain, and death?

  15. on 11 Mar 2009 at 6:40 pm 15.Hermes said …

    truth: Your comments have multiple problems.

    First off, nobody is saying scientists are the end all to beat all.

    Any good scientist is stunningly humble, though unlike you most of them know what air is and that supernaturalism (what you advocate) isn’t a valid field of investigation. After all, look at the lack of results from theologians who can’t even add to the field of theology without narrow sectarian considerations taking hold.

    Meanwhile, scientists and other professionals — from plumbers to project managers — are able to talk among themselves and reach a conclusion on what the best way to do things currently is. Theology? They can’t even agree among themselves or reach any conclusions — even tentative ones.

    See for yourself;


  16. on 12 Mar 2009 at 1:00 am 16.Gern Blansten said …

    “dna is like a design and like every complex design it must have a designer.”

    If it makes you feel any better, think of nature as the designer. No imaginary god was involved, unless that god also designed the polio virus, premature babies, and my vestigial tail.

    “you people have a lot of damn nerve to judge others for what they choose to belive in.”

    Was this a joke or are you too stupid to recognize the irony in this statement?

    “Just because you cant see something it doesnt mean its not there.”

    That’s true. But that means I have as much evidence for the Flying Spaghetti Monster as you do for your god.

    Now run along.

  17. on 12 Mar 2009 at 1:03 am 17.Gern Blansten said …

    You know that gunman in Alabama who killed ten people yesterday? Here’s a snippet from an article today:

    “The district attorney said a piece of paper found in the house he shared with his mother also included the names of nine lawyers in the area. He said McLendon apparently wanted to hire a lawyer in a dispute with members of his family over getting a family Bible returned to him, but details weren’t clear.”

  18. on 12 Mar 2009 at 1:05 am 18.Gern Blansten said …

    Then, later in the article:

    ‘At a prayer service at First Baptist Church of Samson, Rev. Steve Sellers made no attempt to explain what would drive someone to commit such an act.

    “Father, there are times in life when we don’t have answers to the question why,” Sellers said to several hundred people in the church, where sobs could be heard. “I don’t know what set a young man off like that, but I too want to pray for his family.”‘

  19. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:22 pm 19.truth said …

    Look after reading all the things you all had to say I overreacted to your comments. I am not a Christian but I do belive that God exsits and that Jesus walked the Earth. And I am ashamed to say that there was a time that I didn’t belive and I tought that science was the simple explanation to our exsistence. And no it didn’t take a mircale to belive in God. I am NOT trying to shove religion down your throat because I hated that when people did it to me. I completely understand where your coming from. Trust me.It’s just hard to sit here and read all you have to say about something I belive in. I stumbled onto this web site by accident trust me. But after reading a little I understood what you meant. The thing that totally and completely pissed me off was the whole “Christians are delusioal” deal.

  20. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:24 pm 20.truth said …

    Gern whatever look i havent seen this flying whatever but something that has been around for years and years is totally differnt from pulling something out of your ass.

  21. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:34 pm 21.Anonymous said …

    if you dont belive in any type of “god” why do you name yourself after one? dude that’s just wierd

  22. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:35 pm 22.truth said …

    Look after reading all the things you all had to say I overreacted to your comments. I am not a Christian but I do belive that God exsits and that Jesus walked the Earth. And I am ashamed to say that there was a time that I didn’t belive and I tought that science was the simple explanation to our exsistence. And no it didn’t take a mircale to belive in God. I am NOT trying to shove religion down your throat because I hated that when people did it to me. I completely understand where your coming from. Trust me.It’s just hard to sit here and read all you have to say about something I belive in. I stumbled onto this web site by accident trust me. But after reading a little I understood what you meant. The thing that totally and completely pissed me off was the whole “Christians are delusional” deal.

  23. on 12 Mar 2009 at 5:47 pm 23.Anonymous said …

    “Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind.” (Albert Einstein)

  24. on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:00 pm 24.Hermes said …

    Anonymous: Einstein also wrote in a private letter;

    “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.

    In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the privilege of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolisation. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary.

    Now that I have quite openly stated our differences in intellectual convictions it is still clear to me that we are quite close to each other in essential things, i.e. in our evalutations [sic]of human behaviour. What separates us are only intellectual ‘props’ and ‘rationalisation’ in Freud’s language. Therefore I think that we would understand each other quite well if we talked about concrete things.

    With friendly thanks and best wishes

    Yours, A. Einstein.”

    Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/13/peopleinscience.religion

  25. on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:09 pm 25.Hermes said …

    Anonymous: “if you dont belive in any type of “god” why do you name yourself after one? dude that’s just wierd”

    I’m guessing that comment is to me. For that, I look to Homer who said of Hermes;

    “[Hermes] whom Maia bare, the rich-tressed Nymphe, when she was joined in love with Zeus,–a shy goddess, for she avoided the company of the blessed gods, and lived within a deep, shady cave. There Kronion used to lie with the rich-tressed Nymphe, unseen by deathless gods and mortal men, at dead of night while sweet sleep should hold white-armed Hera fast. And when the purpose of great Zeus was fixed in heaven, she was delivered and a notable thing was come to pass. For then she bare a son, of many shifts, blandly cunning, a robber, a cattle driver, a bringer of dreams, a watcher by night, a thief at the gates, one who was soon to show forth wonderful deeds among the deathless gods. Born with the dawning, at mid-day he played on the lyre, and in the evening he stole the cattle of far-shooting Apollo on the fourth day of the month; for on that day queenly Maia bare him.”

    Additionally; http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/greek-mythology.php?deity=HERMES

    Hermes made the tortoise sing. What’s not to like?

  26. on 12 Mar 2009 at 7:20 pm 26.Gern Blansten said …

    truth, I want to applaud you for attempting to debate when you are barely literate.

    If you have any evidence to support your ramblings, please share.

  27. on 15 Mar 2009 at 6:04 am 27.RLWemm said …

    It strikes me as odd that this site gets a bunch of people complaining about the site who claim not to be christian. They all sound as if they have the same level of education and grasp of rational thinking, and the same level of ignorance about the issues raised here. Are they one person posting with different pseudonyms or a multiple personality residing in the same body?

  28. on 15 Mar 2009 at 9:41 am 28.Hermes said …

    RLWemm, come to the forums and judge for yourself. While you are at it, pick one or two comments you’ve seen here that you consider ignorant, and we’ll discuss it;


  29. on 15 Mar 2009 at 9:52 am 29.Hermes said …

    (Side note: Sock puppets [one person acting like multiple people] does happen. If you suspect someone is using multiple accounts on the forums, you can flag a post of someone who you suspect is doing it, and the moderators can look into it.)

  30. on 15 Mar 2009 at 2:01 pm 30.Gern Blansten said …

    An article so good, it deserves to be spread:

    How to spot a hidden religious agenda

    Amanda Gefter
    New Scientist
    Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:35 UTC

    As a book reviews editor at New Scientist, I often come across so-called science books which after a few pages reveal themselves to be harbouring ulterior motives. I have learned to recognise clues that the author is pushing a religious agenda. As creationists in the US continue to lose court battles over attempts to have intelligent design taught as science in federally funded schools, their strategy has been forced to… well, evolve. That means ensuring that references to pseudoscientific concepts like ID are more heavily veiled. So I thought I’d share a few tips for spotting what may be religion in science’s clothing.

    Red flag number one: the term “scientific materialism”. “Materialism” is most often used in contrast to something else – something non-material, or supernatural. Proponents of ID frequently lament the scientific claim that humans are the product of purely material forces. At the same time, they never define how non-material forces might work. I have yet to find a definition that characterises non-materialism by what it is, rather than by what it is not.

    The invocation of Cartesian dualism – where the brain and mind are viewed as two distinct entities, one material and the other immaterial – is also a red flag. And if an author describes the mind, or any biological system for that matter, as “irreducibly complex”, let the alarm bells ring.

    Misguided interpretations of quantum physics are a classic hallmark of pseudoscience, usually of the New Age variety, but some religious groups are now appealing to aspects of quantum weirdness to account for free will. Beware: this is nonsense.

    When you come across the terms “Darwinism” or “Darwinists”, take heed. True scientists rarely use these terms, and instead opt for “evolution” and “biologists”, respectively. When evolution is described as a “blind, random, undirected process”, be warned. While genetic mutations may be random, natural selection is not. When cells are described as “astonishingly complex molecular machines”, it is generally by breathless supporters of ID who take the metaphor literally and assume that such a “machine” requires an “engineer”. If an author wishes for “academic freedom”, it is usually ID code for “the acceptance of creationism”.

    Some general sentiments are also red flags. Authors with religious motives make shameless appeals to common sense, from the staid – “There is nothing we can be more certain of than the reality of our sense of self” (James Le Fanu in Why Us?) – to the silly – “Yer granny was an ape!” (creationist blogger Denyse O’Leary). If common sense were a reliable guide, we wouldn’t need science in the first place.

    Religiously motivated authors also have a bad habit of linking the cultural implications of a theory to the truth-value of that theory. The ID crowd, for instance, loves to draw a line from Darwin to the Holocaust, as they did in the “documentary” film Expelled: No intelligence allowed. Even if such an absurd link were justified, it would have zero relevance to the question of whether or not the theory of evolution is correct. Similarly, when Le Fanu writes that Darwin’s On the Origin of Species “articulated the desire of many scientists for an exclusively materialist explanation of natural history that would liberate it from the sticky fingers of the theological inference that the beauty and wonder of the natural world was direct evidence for ‘A Designer'”, his statement has no bearing on the scientific merits of evolution.

    It is crucial to the public’s intellectual health to know when science really is science. Those with a religious agenda will continue to disguise their true views in their effort to win supporters, so please read between the lines.

  31. on 26 Mar 2009 at 4:55 pm 31.Thomas Beha said …

    truth – The concept that the world was flat was NOT from the scientist. I believe it was mostly from the religious right type of “middle age / dark age” scribe with some scientific knowledge with a HUGE lack of scientific knowledge.

    The “Christian is delusional” isn’t far off at all. They keep trying to predict when the end of the world will happen and keep having to revise who will be the anti-christ and where it will happen and when.

    As a ex-christian, believe me stories changes and insights changes within the various christian religions organizations. There is even now christian accepting evolution with various slant of their own.

    There are christian who finally get it to take care of our plant earth and attempt to be green.
    The christian work ethics was the major reason for the carbon footprint to escalate in the last 50 years like crazy.

    truth – you believe in God = fine but please keep it simple and no attachment to the over 6,000 religion organization. As long as your view of God do not include an on-hand approach by him to meddle or fiddle with life in the universe. Carl Sagan knows this isn’t the case and that scientific laws are at work out there moving the planets, suns, galaxies, and dust particles. Earth has gone through transformation that has NOTHING to do with GOD but the stuff of the universe that impacted life on earth one way or another.

    Yahweh was a man just like you and me. He indicates in his public speeches and views heavely borrowed from the Egyptians, especially Osiris. I won’t be surprised that the religious leaders encouraged and helped to write the old and new testament to have the religion slant of Osiris. Remember the Jews used to live in Egypt and heard these stories and created their own.

    faith – faith is good and a fine way to carry on life with dignity. It just doesn’t have anything to do with gods.



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