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Christianity Johnson on 05 Mar 2009 12:53 am

God won’t heal amputees, but science will

Science marches on, getting better and better every year. God marches on, doing absolutely nothing year after year. The latest in prosthetic technologies:

53 Responses to “God won’t heal amputees, but science will”

  1. on 06 Mar 2009 at 11:42 am 1.Chris said …

    Huzzah Science! I love it, thank you for posting that!

  2. on 07 Mar 2009 at 5:42 am 2.Joe Bible said …

    Just read Sam’s Harris’ “Letter To Christian A Nation” today and followed to trail to your site.

    Great title. Great writing. Looking forward to digging in deeper.

  3. on 07 Mar 2009 at 6:42 pm 3.Hermes said …

    Joe Bible, welcome! If you join the forums, let me know!

    WWGHA forums;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php

  4. on 08 Mar 2009 at 2:55 am 4.Anonymous said …

    I do not intend to offend, just writing what comes to mind. I am not of highest intellect or schooling, I apologize if this comment is too long or below your level. “God won’t heal amputees” for the same reasons he won’t give atheists faith. It would be wonderful if God gave arms to all people without arms, and it would be great if everyone were able to have faith. We are intelligent creatures and can not exist in a perfect world. As thinkers, a perfect world would require everyone to have a perfect mind, making everyone identical, not what we consider human. God can do anything, but to do everything would make more problems than we can imagine.
    I am thankful for many things, and the man without arms is thankful for his many gifts. Maybe the people who designed the replacement arm pray to God for help with their very difficult work, which might have helped them engineer the arm. I know God helps me all of the time. I pray that you ask God for help, not for a miracle. If you ever try to believe, please be patient, prayers are not instantly answered. God is very patient with you, for example, wait your life to visit a Church until you are very old. When you get there, tell clergy or laity you have never believed, and they will most probably welcome you and pray that you can be touched by God. If you are able to believe for the first time at 90 years old, God will love you just as much as he loves you now, but your soul will no longer be blind.
    I wrote this only because faith has changed my life so much, it is logical for me to think faith would help others.
    God bless you.

  5. on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:09 am 5.Hermes said …

    Anonymous, consider the following;

    ================

    * If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

    * If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

    * Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

    * Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

    * Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

    ================

    The question that this web site poses remains unaddressed by your comments.

    To put it into perspective, did nobody over the last few thousand years pray for either the arm of someone else or their own arm to be restored? Does your deity just hate amputees, or consider them unworthy because they are amputees?

    The answer is either that the Bible is incorrect about prayer, the Bible is incomplete and there is some hidden reason why amputees (and other unambiguous potential recipients of miracles) are never healed, the description of the deity in the Bible is incorrect, the deity described in the Bible went back on it’s word, or the deity described in the Bible doesn’t exist.

    There are, of course, other potential answers — especially if you want to ignore the Bible. By your example, are you saying that the Bible is somehow wrong and should be ignored? If so, how do you know the difference between the parts that are correct and those that are not? How did you come to think what you wrote — and consider it to be an accurate representation of the religion and/or the deity you follow?

    More: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

  6. on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:44 am 6.Anonymous said …

    Hermes, Again I apologize, I am not an expert of Bible, but as I understand it was written by man. Man is not perfect. I think the “you” in the above sections represent mankind, not an individual. I believe that eventually the amputees prayers will be answered, but it may be his child many generations from now who will be the first to have a new arm of flesh and bone. Please be patient with God, just as he is patient with you.
    God Bless You.

  7. on 08 Mar 2009 at 3:52 am 7.Hermes said …

    Well, I can only go on what the Christian Bible actually says. If you don’t follow it, but you talk about Christianity, what are you?

  8. on 08 Mar 2009 at 4:02 am 8.Anonymous said …

    Hermes, I understand the Christian Bible was written mostly in Hebrew and Greek thousands of years ago. There are somethings that are not exactly as they were originally written. The Bible can not be read as a police report, it needs to be read to help the reader love. Look at “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar
    Many parts of Bible are interpreted differently. I don’t know everything about religions, and don’t have the Bible memorized, but I assure you God is real. I pray one day you can feel how awesome it is to believe.
    God Bless You.

  9. on 08 Mar 2009 at 4:31 pm 9.Hermes said …

    Anonymous: It’s not ambiguous, though. It’s in context and clear in multiple translations. See for yourself;

    http://biblegateway.com

    If you don’t follow the Bible, why use Christian terms like a Christian? Won’t they get angry when they find you are abusing their religion?

  10. on 08 Mar 2009 at 5:25 pm 10.Anonymous said …

    Just wanting to back anonymous up a bit on the Bible. The Bible was written for two types of people-the Gentiles of the world and the Jews of the world. Also, the Old Testiment was not written TO us it was written FOR us. Us meaning the Gentiles. The Old Testiment is towards the Jews because of the dispensation of Law. The Jews have never really believed in Christ they must have a “sign” or some sort of sight object in order to believe in Him. The Law dispensation was a time period of where if you didn’t do this, this, and this you were to go to Hell. Because of no one was keeping God’s law God sent His Son, Christ. Thus getting into the Grace dispensation. God’s grace is something many Americans cannot understand because of unbelieve thinking salvation is by works. Under the Grace period many ppl are aloud to recieve Christ’s love unconditionnaly.This is a general over-view of the two dispensations why the old testiment says what it says.

  11. on 08 Mar 2009 at 5:32 pm 11.Hermes said …

    Anonymous #2: I know that part of Christian teaching.

    The question remains: In light of the passages I quoted above (message 5), then why won’t your deity heal amputees?

    I posted some possibilities (message 5) that were ignored by Anonymous #1 who went only with the subjective personal experience … and then the assertion that the deity Anonymous #1 follows exists and the wish that I would know Anonymous #1′s deity.

    I hope you can see that this doesn’t help address the issues raised in my messages or in the link I provided;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

  12. on 08 Mar 2009 at 9:36 pm 12.Anonymous said …

    Hermes,
    In reply to your message 9, Jesus said those words to groups, either crowds or to his disciples, not to an individual. This is why I think it means if mankind prays they will get what they will eventually get what is asked. I attempted to explain this in message 6. You asked in message 9 “If you don’t follow the Bible, why use Christian terms like a Christian? Won’t they get angry when they find you are abusing their religion?”
    I do follow the readings at Mass and try very much to understand and appreciate them. I am probably not as smart as you so I don’t know as much about religion or the Bible as you. I hope that I am not abusing any religion, I apologize if I offended you or any human. I am sure that God will forgive, and hope that you will forgive if I have offended.
    To really believe is truly an amazing gift. Even some of the most religious people struggle with faith at times. Since the world isn’t perfect, I know that you may not find faith, just as the amputee may not get new arms in his lifetime of prayer. God tells us to be happy and love throughout the Bible. If you never do find faith, I truly wish for you to love and be happy. I pray for you just as I now pray for the amputee to get arms.

  13. on 08 Mar 2009 at 9:42 pm 13.Hermes said …

    Try typing a name or pseudonym in the Name field; it’s not checked and you don’t need to register. Any name will work.

    It’s a bit rude to force everyone else to figure out who wrote what.

  14. on 08 Mar 2009 at 9:42 pm 14.Hermes said …

    Are you Anonymous #1 or #2?

  15. on 08 Mar 2009 at 9:47 pm 15.Joshua said …

    Sorry Hermes, I am anonymous #1. The first part of my last message I meant to write that I was replying to your 5th message, there is also a typo in there. I hope that my messages were at least entertaining for you.

  16. on 08 Mar 2009 at 10:54 pm 16.Hermes said …

    Joshua, so if everyone everywhere prays for the exact same thing … the prayer will be answered? Or, is the group you referred to substantially smaller — say, 10 or 100 people?

    Tied to that, if the group is not everyone, how do you (or anyone else) know what size group would be sufficient?

    I’ll comment on what you have said once I understand your specific religion.

    Notes;

    1. Offense. Nope. I’m not offended, yet you don’t seem to be very rigorous with how you use words. Others might not like that.

    2. You said ‘Mass’ as opposed to ‘Service’ or ‘Church’ or ‘meeting’ … . I take it you follow either Catholicism or some other specific orthodox sect.

  17. on 08 Mar 2009 at 11:35 pm 17.Gern Blansten said …

    “God tells us to be happy and love throughout the Bible.”

    Yeah, especially in books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

  18. on 11 Mar 2009 at 12:22 am 18.anybody said …

    Ah, the wonders of modern day *science*

  19. on 12 Apr 2009 at 2:28 pm 19.Margaret said …

    THIS “FORUM” GOT MY ATTENTION AND LOST IT RIGHT AWAY WHEN THE HOST ASKED THIS QUESTION: “WHY DOESN’T GOD REPLACE A LIMB WHEN PEOPLE PRAY FOR IT?” Well, that’s rather idotic given that we know in the natural world some limbs do grow back on some species but humans are not among those that do have regenerative limbs. And, secondly, there is a picture here of an artificial limb which god certainly provides: The right frame of mind and the right spirit in ANY human society will give way to invention. Voila! A new limb.

    Now, onto the question of atheism. I hate to say this again but the logic is rather juvenile. (Forgive my forwardness) but I wish to cut to the chase. Obviously ‘God’ exist: gazillions live their version of “god” as GOD. Obviously, Jesus is true and Jesus existed since his death (not his birth) is stated in the Roman records of his day. Nevertheless, even if Jesus is mythology, and yeah, a lot of Jesus is mythology, but I think it is non-sensical rationale to try and declare that Jesus never existed nor exist now when gazillions of people say that Jesus is real to them and provides a great ‘utility’ in their daily lives. And, the proof is in the pudding: If Jesus and God were not present in these people an atheist would not live five minutes after he says he’s an atheist. Now that’s reliable, credible logic that makes good sense in our world today.

    Thanks for the good beginning but I’ve heard all the rest before. The logic is elementary. When you grow up, older I mean, your enlightenment will be much better than it is now.

    FORGIVE MY BAD MANNERS but I feel your manners are just as crude as mine in what you say and how you say it. So, I ask to you pardon my use of the word ‘idiotic.’
    MOpine

  20. on 12 Apr 2009 at 2:47 pm 20.Lou said …

    That was so full of stupidity and fallacy and all over the place that you might be not worth bothering with. (Just a note: ad populum is just one problem you have in your argument)

    I’ve been thinking of this for a while now. (Actually, that’s not true; I stole it from ‘Polk’.)It’s called the Buffalo Theory. A herd of buffalo can move only as fast as the slowest buffalo (young, old, sick, etc.). When they are eaten or otherwise killed, the rest of the herd’s maximum speed capacity is increased! I’d like to add you’ve probably tried this yourself on your brain cells. It’s working!

    Lou

  21. on 17 Apr 2009 at 6:44 pm 21.Yes I am a Christian said …

    and who created the people that created science? God did.

  22. on 17 Apr 2009 at 7:11 pm 22.Anonymous said …

    Thanks for speaking the truth! I must add add that Cthulhu created God, lest the whole picture not be told.

  23. on 17 Apr 2009 at 8:07 pm 23.Gern Blansten said …

    But cthulhu was, of course, created by Mordak.

  24. on 17 Apr 2009 at 8:59 pm 24.Anonymous said …

    Well, yeah, obviously.

  25. on 18 Apr 2009 at 12:10 am 25.Anonymous said …

    “THIS “FORUM” GOT MY ATTENTION AND LOST IT RIGHT AWAY WHEN THE HOST ASKED THIS QUESTION: “WHY DOESN’T GOD REPLACE A LIMB WHEN PEOPLE PRAY FOR IT?” Well, that’s rather idotic given that we know in the natural world some limbs do grow back on some species but humans are not among those that do have regenerative limbs. And, secondly, there is a picture here of an artificial limb which god certainly provides: The right frame of mind and the right spirit in ANY human society will give way to invention. Voila! A new limb.”

    I thought we were talking about GOD here. Are you telling me the creator of universe can’t replace one limb? God is “supernatural”, so he shouldn’t have mere “natural” limitations. I mean, Lazarus came back to life, and humans certainly don’t do that as far as I know of. (Unless you’ve been holding out on me!)

  26. on 18 Apr 2009 at 1:41 am 26.Gern Blansten said …

    “Now, onto the question of atheism. I hate to say this again but the logic is rather juvenile.”

    Yeah, atheism isn’t nearly as logically mature as talking snakes, a great flood, parting seas, etc.

    Have the strength to be rational and logical. It really isn’t as bad as you think.

  27. on 18 Apr 2009 at 6:40 pm 27.Anonymous said …

    “If Jesus and God were not present in these people an atheist would not live five minutes after he says he’s an atheist. Now that’s reliable, credible logic that makes good sense in our world today.”

    I would find this funny, but it’s just sad and says a lot about the christian faith. The non-logic behind it hurts too. =/

  28. on 19 Apr 2009 at 10:27 pm 28.Rostam said …

    Ask an atheist where does language, art, music, and religion come from? Most atheists will parrot something about cranial evolution (without knowing the slightest bit about the topic) – but this is in fact one of the most baffling questions in anthropology today and it remains unsolved.
    Approximately 50,000 years ago (the numbers vary), we suddenly see an explosion in things like archaic flutes, abstract cave drawings (not just represntations of observations like antelope and men with spears), venus figurines, evidence of ritual burials, etc. Before this date: nothing.
    Why? Survival? I don’t think so. Our hominid cousins, the Neanderthals, who lived at the same time, in the same place, and for much longer, didn’t need any of that to survive. The hominids before either of us, H. Erectus, lasted even longer without any of those things. Greater mating potential? Maybe, but you’re stretching, and you know it. And you have what? No proof. So, I ask you, where does it come from?
    You’ll find that in order to explain this you have to rely on the same kind of faith in evolution and natural selection that Christians use in defending their faith. Same basic human behavior, different parameters.

  29. on 19 Apr 2009 at 11:38 pm 29.Hermes said …

    Margaret, consider the more detailed responses here;

    whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm
    whywontgodhealamputees.com/rationalizations.htm

    If you have any further questions, please feel free to drop me a message in the forums or in a private message (forum email);

    whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=383

    Note: The links lack the http:// that would make them click able because too many links cause messages to be sent to moderation for a few days or even longer. :-(

  30. on 19 Apr 2009 at 11:40 pm 30.Hermes said …

    Nearly everyone: Good banter in this thread. Makes me smile!

  31. on 26 Apr 2009 at 4:18 pm 31.Rosco said …

    God gave us brains and intellect. Brains and intellect created bionic limbs. God gave amputees limbs. Thank you God.

  32. on 26 Apr 2009 at 4:34 pm 32.Gern Blansten said …

    Zeus gave us brains and intellect. Brains and intellect created bionic limbs. Zeus gave amputees limbs. Thank you Zeus.

    I bet most believers think that sounds pretty silly. Why?

  33. on 26 Apr 2009 at 5:39 pm 33.Lou said …

    Bionic limbs aren’t quite the same. Just ask any amputee.

    What a horrible misuse of the transitive property.

  34. on 26 Apr 2009 at 6:08 pm 34.Anonymous said …

    What is this god giving man intellect? Isn’t that the point of the tree of knowlege story? And don’t christians decry science, as it takes over god’s importance as “provider”?

  35. on 26 Apr 2009 at 6:31 pm 35.Gern Blansten said …

    Rosco, would you also say, “God gave men penises. Penises are used for rape. God gave us rape. Thank you God.”

  36. on 26 Apr 2009 at 7:49 pm 36.anybody said …

    nice one :P

  37. on 27 Apr 2009 at 2:44 am 37.Hermes said …

    Rosco, your idea, by extention;

    ‘God gave us bacteria and viruses. Bacteria and viruses created disease. God gave disease. Thank you God.’

    If you claim all good for your deity, you claim all for your deity — including the bad.

  38. on 27 Apr 2009 at 4:44 pm 38.Justin said …

    “You’ll find that in order to explain this you have to rely on the same kind of faith in evolution and natural selection that Christians use in defending their faith. Same basic human behavior, different parameters”

    Rostam outstanding analogy!

  39. on 22 Feb 2013 at 8:39 pm 39.big a said …

    One of the popes in the 2nd or 3rd century said “the church made up the story of jesus and had propheted much from this fable” also the beloved king james was an adulterer and sodomized his own son which is a matter of public record in england. thanks big a

  40. on 23 Feb 2013 at 3:22 am 40.A said …

    big a,

    That is an interesting story. Maybe you could provide some evidence for this tale?

    But let me ask this. How did this Pope get 40 different authors over thousands of years all written before the first Pope even existed to go along with the tale before this Pope even existed?

    How does one “propheted”?

  41. on 23 Feb 2013 at 3:24 am 41.A said …

    “Approximately 50,000 years ago (the numbers vary), we suddenly see an explosion in things like archaic flutes, abstract cave drawings (not just represntations of observations like antelope and men with spears), venus figurines, evidence of ritual burials, etc. Before this date: nothing.”

    Rosta, they explain it with “we don’t know but we will one day”. LOL!!

  42. on 23 Feb 2013 at 5:04 am 42.alex said …

    Maybe the story is crap, but how in the fuck does it prove your bullshit god? Your diversion failed yet again.

  43. on 23 Feb 2013 at 10:50 am 43.Lou (DFW) said …

    41.ASS said …

    “Rosta, they explain it with “we don’t know but we will one day”. LOL!!”

    And? Do you have a point? Do you ever have a point?

  44. on 23 Feb 2013 at 1:59 pm 44.CastBound said …

    “the church made up the story of jesus and had propheted much from this fable”

    big a.

    Who is attributed with this quote seeing you used quotation marks? I would like to see who uses prophet is this manner. I believe it must have been you. I take it you are an Atheist?

    Second which Pope made this claim?

  45. on 23 Feb 2013 at 2:19 pm 45.The messenger said …

    39.big a, I did alot of research on your comment and I have concluded that it is a lie.

    None of the popes made that statement. And further more, he did not say that king James commited adultery. Here is the only connection that King James and adultery have.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_Bible

  46. on 23 Feb 2013 at 3:26 pm 46.Anonymous said …

    The name changes, but the song remains the same.

    It’s the theists that needs to answer questions. Let’s start with your evidence that a god exists.

  47. on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:31 pm 47.The messenger said …

    46.Anonymous, first answer our questions.

  48. on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:42 pm 48.Lou (DFW) said …

    40.ASS said …

    “That is an interesting story. Maybe you could provide some evidence for this tale?”

    LOL! Why is it you always demand evidence of everyone else, but you NEVER, EVER provide any for your “tale?”

  49. on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:50 pm 49.The messenger said …

    48.Lou (DFW), we have provided proof of God.

    Now we demand that you answer our questions.

  50. on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:51 pm 50.The messenger said …

    on 23 Feb 2013 at 4:50 pm 49.The messenger said … Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    48.Lou (DFW), we have provided proof of God.
    Now we demand that you answer our questions.

    NOW!!!!!!!!!!

  51. on 24 Feb 2013 at 12:47 am 51.DPK said …

    For the record, it was Pope Leo X in 1514 who said, in front of many witnesses,
    “How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors.”

    Of course, he will now be disenfranchised as “not a true Christian”
    Isn’t the papacy supposed to be infallible in matters of doctrine? God himself is supposed to prevent the pope from speaking incorrectly when it comes to matters of faith and dogma. So there you have it, the infallible word of gods elected representive on earth, admitting that Jesus is a fable and a superstition.

  52. on 24 Feb 2013 at 2:25 am 52.alex said …

    Fuck castboundasshole and his stupid wild goose chase.

  53. on 24 Feb 2013 at 11:07 am 53.Lou (DFW) said …

    48.The messenger said …

    “48.Lou (DFW), we have provided proof of God.”

    First of all, you NEVER provided any “proof” for your imaginary god.

    “Now we demand that you answer our questions.”

    Go ahead, ask away with any questions about god and religion. I will answer them.

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