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Christianity &Islam &Rationals Johnson on 17 Feb 2009 12:54 am

What we are up against

If you ever wonder why people cling so strongly to religion in the face of so much contradicting evidence, here is an explanation:

7 Responses to “What we are up against”

  1. on 17 Feb 2009 at 9:18 am 1.Tory said …

    Holy Jumping Sheep Shit Batman. That is the biggest load of crap I’ve had the displeasure of listening to.

  2. on 17 Feb 2009 at 11:35 am 2.Tommy said …

    Yadda yadda yadda God did it.

    Me feel better now!

  3. on 18 Feb 2009 at 1:56 am 3.walkie wawtmire said …

    American Athiests has made the mistake of turning the murdered Madalyn Murray-O’Hair into a non-person. She always taught that no one will ever ‘know for sure how we got here, it’s irrelevant, we have to deal with the here and now’. Therefore, it’s pointless to debate the Creationists; all we do is stoop to their level.

    And that is what we should never do again. “Me” want-ee things that way. Do things the that-way way.

  4. on 20 Feb 2009 at 10:57 pm 4.Anonymous said …

    God is real There are to proofs I can show you! But only if you will be opan minded and not a harden heart.

  5. on 21 Feb 2009 at 12:35 am 5.Hermes said …

    Anonymous, come to the forums. State your case. Use the “Spell Check” button. :)

  6. on 24 Feb 2009 at 1:57 am 6.Jeff C. said …

    This video is pretty weak. And familiar. Do these guys every try and come up with new arguments?

    #1, #2, #3, and #4 would fit almost any religion with a creation story. These are in no way “proof” that Christianity is correct.

    #1 just begs the question where did God from. As has been pointed out a zillion times already, you can’t just posit God as the solution to why is there something rather than nothing without explaining where God came from. Claiming he has always been there is pretty weak and in which case it seems like you could just as easily claim the stuff of the universe has always been here.

    #2 Is the design and order really evident in the universe? It would seem like a bit of a wasteful design to create the whole universe for us on our tiny little rock. Besides intelligence isn’t the only thing that creates the appearance of design. There are plenty of natural systems that exhibit self organization and build complexity (fractals and natural selection come to mind).

    #3 It seems a bit argue to argue that morality is objective and things like murder, rape, slavery, etc are immoral when the individual arguing this is part of a group that states the bible is the inerrant word of God. What about all the endorsement (or at least indifference to) the rape, murder, genocide and slavery in the Bible?! We also see that morality for Christian’s has never been static and has changed with the times (Crusades, Inquisition and witch hunting…).

    #4 While we are the most intelligent species on the planet I’m not sure we are that much of an enigma. We see man human traits like intelligence, altruism, tools, and self sacrifice in other animal species. We excel at the arts and thinking but there are other things, like eye sight, hearing, speed, endurance, heartiness, breathing under water, flying that where we are obviously inferior to the other species. It seems like natural selection explains this diversity very well.

    #5 This premise is pretty much based on acceptance of the Bible as fact which is what we are trying to determine.
    - Jesus’ fulfillment of the prophecy of the Old Testament seems, to me, little more than good story telling. Saying that character in a book fulfills prophecy made earlier in the same book is rather absurd.
    - Claiming that miracles are proof of Jesus’ divinity when the only evidence for those miracles is, again, in the book whose veracity we are trying to determine. To claim that none of Jesus’ enemies contested these claims is rather disingenuous since outside of the Bible very little is written about Jesus at all (by his contemporaries). If a man was running around in the dessert performing these miracles why don’t the other historians of the time, the non-Christian, ones make note of it? Josephus has a single line in his work that mentions Jesus and that he had followers. Why no miracles?
    - Exhibited a matchless moral character…
    - “Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:” (Jesus supported the old law)
    - “Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” (The doctrine of hell is just plain insidious)
    - “Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them” (Killing homosexuals)
    - “Luke 14-26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father .. and sisters, .. he cannot be My disciple?”
    - “Matthew 10:34 – I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword”
    - The resurrection… Once again the only evidence for the resurrection are a few anecdotes in the Bible (even those are inconsistent) and the “empty tomb”. Normally if a body goes missing from a grave I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that it came back to life.
    - Transformation of Christian’s into martyrs only provides that those people believed in Christ’s divinity not that it was true. We have contemporary examples of stuff like this (Jonestown anyone?) where an enigmatic leader can convince people to do almost anything including giving up their own lives.

  7. on 24 Feb 2009 at 2:46 am 7.Hermes said …

    Jeff, thanks for the input!

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