Feed on Posts or Comments 28 November 2014

Science Johnson on 13 Feb 2009 12:20 am

Science moment – evolution of the eye

Additional reading: READINGS IN EVOLUTION

99 Responses to “Science moment – evolution of the eye”

  1. on 16 Feb 2009 at 1:56 am 1.Anonymous said …

    You are participating in the devils workshop. I feel remorse for you people. accept god, accept god, accept god into your lives and be at peace with creation. God Bless and forgive you. I Love God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

  2. on 16 Feb 2009 at 2:26 am 2.Hermes said …

    Anonymous: It’s your demon, it’s your deity. Take your pity and bigotry and blow.

  3. on 22 Feb 2009 at 12:10 am 3.tratrahermes said …

    Just beautiful! It ends withe words “Darwins Theory” for that is what it is. Where are all of the transitional forms today? Where are the evolving transitional creatures? Anyone hear of thermaldynamics? So much for theory. Talk about faith? It takes more faith to believe this tripe.

  4. on 22 Feb 2009 at 12:43 am 4.Hermes said …

    tratra, you’re a transitional form, and an evolving creature. As for thermodynamics, two things to consider: ‘Closed system’ and ‘our star, the sun’. If this doesn’t make much sense to you, it might be that you don’t understand thermodynamics.

    Have a question? Let me know. I’ll be glad to converse with you as long as you aren’t belligerent.

  5. on 22 Feb 2009 at 1:13 am 5.tratrahermes said …

    2nd law states entropy. Ist law is conservation of energy.The universe cannot replace itself. God creates energy and matter from nothing!God maintains the infinite perpetuity of the universe. I am not evolving as a physical being, but as a spiritual being!

  6. on 22 Feb 2009 at 1:32 am 6.Hermes said …

    tratra, do the math;

    1. 2nd law – key words; in a closed system. Entropy does not increase in a system system that is not closed. Our sun adds energy to the Earth, making it an open system; thus, entropy (while an active process) does not dominate the system.

    2. 1st law – Conservation of energy; yep. Think it through. The conclusions are right there. 1:1.

    3. Spiritual being: Consider what you know (for a fact and can verify with other humans who don’t share your specific religious beliefs). Specifically, take a look at this;

    ————————————–

    For what it’s worth, there is no such thing as a soul or an after life.

    So far, I’ve had very few people challenge me on this and most just make blanket statements without offering facts.

    Think about what we know. Think about what we do not need to speculate about — on both life and death.

    1. Death is not a clear line; on one side alive, on the other completely dead.

    Death happens in stages as individual cells no longer retain integrity for a variety of reasons, often because of oxygen starvation from organ failure or trauma that prevents the blood from circulating. Parts of us are dying and new cells are being made all the time.

    2. Organ transplants. Even when ‘we’ cease to be, parts of us are still coherent, allowing organ transplants. There is even a method of blood extraction from corpses that is used occasionally.

    3. All of our thoughts while we are alive are contained in a structure of neurons. This can be seen in a variety of well documented cases from Phineas Gage through to the impacts of severing the corpus colosum and the impacts of traumas such as strokes and alzheimers as well as the structures found that map nerves to a variety of tasks and thoughts.

    4. When people start to die, the brain is frequently one of the last organs to be starved of oxygen.

    5. The ‘tunnel of light’ is caused by the visual cortex loosing oxygen and the remaining parts of the brain attempting to deal with that. The same ‘tunnel’ can be simulated. Pilots experience this when they use a centrifuge under high G forces for training or to test new gear. Both these are documented and can be duplicated with the proper equipment and/or circumstances.

    6. People who live after being through this oxygen starvation tell stories based on their brain’s attempt to deal with the stress. They talk about ‘flash backs’, they talk about ‘stepping outside’ of themselves and seeing themselves. The same thing the pilots in the centrifuges report.

    7. The more time the brain or any organ is starved, the more damage.

    8. People don’t act any differently from more damage (that brings them closer to complete death and thus an ‘afterlife’) then other victims of brain damage.

    9. When cell death is complete, there is nothing to store ‘them’.

  7. on 22 Feb 2009 at 1:34 am 7.Hermes said …

    Tratra, as for evolution, here’s a question for you. Why do you reject it, while most Christians accept it? Why are you right and most Christians are wrong?

  8. on 22 Feb 2009 at 2:14 am 8.Gern Blansten said …

    Claim CF001:

    The second law of thermodynamics says that everything tends toward disorder, making evolutionary development impossible.
    Source:

    Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 38-46.
    Response:

    The second law of thermodynamics says no such thing. It says that heat will not spontaneously flow from a colder body to a warmer one or, equivalently, that total entropy (a measure of useful energy) in a closed system will not decrease. This does not prevent increasing order because

    the earth is not a closed system; sunlight (with low entropy) shines on it and heat (with higher entropy) radiates off. This flow of energy, and the change in entropy that accompanies it, can and will power local decreases in entropy on earth.
    entropy is not the same as disorder. Sometimes the two correspond, but sometimes order increases as entropy increases. (Aranda-Espinoza et al. 1999; Kestenbaum 1998) Entropy can even be used to produce order, such as in the sorting of molecules by size (Han and Craighead 2000).
    even in a closed system, pockets of lower entropy can form if they are offset by increased entropy elsewhere in the system.
    In short, order from disorder happens on earth all the time.

    The only processes necessary for evolution to occur are reproduction, heritable variation, and selection. All of these are seen to happen all the time, so, obviously, no physical laws are preventing them. In fact, connections between evolution and entropy have been studied in depth, and never to the detriment of evolution (Demetrius 2000).

    Several scientists have proposed that evolution and the origin of life is driven by entropy (McShea 1998). Some see the information content of organisms subject to diversification according to the second law (Brooks and Wiley 1988), so organisms diversify to fill empty niches much as a gas expands to fill an empty container. Others propose that highly ordered complex systems emerge and evolve to dissipate energy (and increase overall entropy) more efficiently (Schneider and Kay 1994).

    Creationists themselves admit that increasing order is possible. They introduce fictional exceptions to the law to account for it.

    Creationists themselves make claims that directly contradict their claims about the second law of thermodynamics, such as hydrological sorting of fossils during the Flood.

  9. on 22 Feb 2009 at 3:13 am 9.Hermes said …

    Gern, thanks for the details!

  10. on 22 Feb 2009 at 1:35 pm 10.tratrahermes said …

    By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what is visable.

  11. on 22 Feb 2009 at 1:45 pm 11.Gern Blansten said …

    Tratra, people who believed in Zeus or Mordak or Ba’al babbled just as mindlessly as you, and they’ve believed in their gods as much as you believe in yours. You have been brainwashed into believing the supernatural. Get a grip on reality and rationality.

  12. on 22 Feb 2009 at 2:34 pm 12.tratrahermes said …

    Your right in saying that I’m brainwashed. I’ve been washed clean from the sin of this world.Do I still sin,yes! But I have Jesus Christ as my sacrifice for those sins. So that when he returns I’ll be found clean and wearing a white robe!. Sounds crazy to you, but it is the power of God through the shed blood of Christ. People still believe in those Gods (Zeus, Mordak, etc)and others that men create. Like the god of Sport or Money or Science. But those gods have no power to redeem a man’s soul and give him eternal life. All men worship a god of some sort. Even themselves as a god. They put their own life on the highest pinnacle of importance and ascribe to themselves the title of God in their life. Doing so they create their own set of values concerning right and wrong. They decide what what is reality in their mind. They determine in their heart the things which they cannot prove. They believe that science can either prove or disprove God. Since God is a being that exists outside this realm they are decieved by their own logic. This kind of reasoning is foolishness. It is better to trust in a living God who sacrificed his Son so you can enter into a relationship with him.

  13. on 22 Feb 2009 at 5:36 pm 13.Anonymous said …

    >Your right in saying that I’m brainwashed.
    >I’ve been washed clean from the sin of
    >this world.Do I still sin,yes! But I
    >have Jesus Christ as my sacrifice for
    >those sins. So that when he returns
    >I’ll be found clean and wearing a
    >white robe!. Sounds crazy to you, but
    >it is the power of God through the
    >shed blood of Christ.

    It does not SOUND crazy. It IS crazy. What causes you to believe such nonsense?

    If you have been “brainwashed”, and “washed clean of sin”, then why would you sin? And if you sin, why would you “be found clean and wearing a
    >white robe!” Do you ever think about what you are saying, or how stupid it is?

    God and Jesus are imaginary. What you believe is nonsense.

  14. on 23 Feb 2009 at 12:48 am 14.tratrahermes said …

    I base my belief in the Word Of God. To the world and people in the world it is foolish, but the foolishness of God is far wiser that the wisdom of man. You cannot understand spiritual truth because you are spiritually dead. You have to be Born again in spirit for your mind to understand these truths. I am reborn in spirit, and my name is written in the LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE! If I become angry with my neighbor than that is sin. If I judge another in my heart, then that is sin. That is what I mean when I say that I sin. But God cleanses me through the blood of Christ. It is a Spiritual truth. None of this can make any sense to you because you are spiritually dead. That is why you say “God and Jesus are imaginary. What you believe is nonsense.” Because I am spiritually alive to God I have insight into the wisdom of God.

  15. on 23 Feb 2009 at 1:05 am 15.Gern Blansten said …

    Because I am spiritually alive to leprechauns I have insight into the wisdom of leprechauns.

  16. on 23 Feb 2009 at 1:19 am 16.Hermes said …

    Gern, how wrong you are! You will know the truth when you encounter His Noodly Goodness! Ramen! :-P

  17. on 23 Feb 2009 at 1:33 am 17.tratrahermes said …

    It isn’t about leprechans or the Spaghetti monster at all. It is that you reject a Supreme God who has authority over your eternal soul. This is nothing more than rebellion. You believe in God. You know that he exists but deny it in your heart. You have free will but refuse to subject it to God. This is what caused the fall of Lucifer. It is rebellion.

  18. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:11 am 18.Gern Blansten said …

    Take it up with your parents. Evil, foul people.

  19. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:15 am 19.Gern Blansten said …

    This is nothing more than delusion. You don’t believe in God. You know that he doesn’t exist but deny it in your spleen. You have free will but refuse to subject it to rationality. This is what caused the fall of most religionuts. It is delusion.

  20. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:16 am 20.Gern Blansten said …

    I am washed in the blood of the lamb.

    With mint jelly on the side.

  21. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:25 am 21.Hermes said …

    Tratra, I’ve already laid out why there are no souls or an afterlife that they could get to.

    Your assumption that we agree with your view of your deity, but are stubborn is kinda silly. I deconverted when I was very young, and have no problem in someone telling me I was never a Christian or that I was one. To me, Christian mythology (mythology as described by Joseph Campbell not ‘just a myth’) is an object of anthropology and a curiosity not something that is a personal challenge. I’m spending more time on Greek mythology now, though, and find it fascinating in ways that Christian myths seem to fall flat.

    Listen carefully: I take your mythology as serious as I do ancient Greek mythology. There are people who worship Zeus as well as many other gods. Christians have a claim to 1/3rd of the worshipers — leaving the majority of people worshiping other deities if any at all.

    Accept it.

  22. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:26 am 22.Hermes said …

    Gern: I’m grinning. Good stuff.

  23. on 23 Feb 2009 at 2:52 pm 23.Gern Blansten said …

    Thanks.

    Tratra is also humorous, albeit unintentionally.

  24. on 24 Feb 2009 at 12:53 am 24.tetrahemi said …

    I don’t care whether you agree with me or my views. I’m here to see how an atheist views God. I’ve never interacted with your kind. I’ve had the opportunity. Your life is shallow based upon your own self centeredness. Your world view will not allow a superior being to exist. That would require accountability. A subjection of your will to a God who requires you acknowledge him. Atheists consider themselves above any one who thinks or loves other people. They broadbrush all people of faith who desire to help others in need. An atheist considers his oratory and sarcasm as a sign of his superior intellect. Now Iv’e had the opportunity to understand how an atheist thinks. It is truly pathetic. It is based upon a super ego. An ego that views itself at the pinnacle of all it interacts with. Atheists view themselves as super intellectuals. An intellectual who cannot coexist with the concept of a God. It will not allow the concept of any being that is greater than it’s own imagined greatness. Truly a sad and insecure cynical, and pathetic creature!

  25. on 24 Feb 2009 at 1:52 am 25.Gern Blansten said …

    I don’t care whether you agree with me or my views. I’m here to see how a religious nut views God. I’ve never interacted with your kind. I’ve had the opportunity. Your life is fodder for humor based upon your own delusions. Your world view will not allow rationality to exist. That would require logic and reason. A subjection of your brain to a reality that requires you acknowledge it. Religious nuts consider themselves above any one who thinks. They broadbrush all people of logic who desire to live in the real world. A religious nut considers his weak-mindedness as a sign of his piety. Now Iv’e had the opportunity to understand how a religious nut thinks. It is truly pretty entertaining. It is based upon a massive amount of credulity. A credulity that views itself as the antidote to the real world, because it’s a scary place without a sky daddy holding your hand. Religious nuts view themselves as super lemmings. A lemming who cannot coexist without the concept of a God. It will quickly succumb to the concept of any being that is greater than the previous gods that man invented back in the Bronze Age. Truly a gullible and closed-minded hypocritical, and brainwashed godbot!

  26. on 24 Feb 2009 at 2:59 am 26.Hermes said …

    tetra: “how an atheist views God.”

    Here’s how I view deities — all deities not just yours; I am open to most deities being shown to be real. That said, some deities are not credible. In the case of the Christian deity, many people insist that their version of the Christian deity has characteristics that are basically impossible.

    As for deities in general, I don’t find most of them to be credible, but I am am open to being shown that I am mistaken on a case by case basis. If you have evidence that is credible for your deity, please provide it. If your evidence consists only of assertions that your specific deity exists or has specific characteristics, then don’t expect me to automatically agree with your claims. I take those claims as seriously for a Christian as I do a Muslim, a Hindu, or a believer in the traditional Greek deities.

  27. on 24 Feb 2009 at 12:59 pm 27.Paloma said …

    Hermes and Blansten, gambling with your eternity, are you?

  28. on 24 Feb 2009 at 1:09 pm 28.Gern Blansten said …

    Paloma, do you know what Pascal’s Wager is?

  29. on 24 Feb 2009 at 10:24 pm 29.tetrahemi said …

    Hermes, I give you credit for your straight forward answer! Gern is too sarcastic to respond to. Here’s what I’ll do. I’ll ask God to bring a spiritual being to you and Gern. Then you can judge for yourself whether you believe or not.

  30. on 25 Feb 2009 at 12:06 am 30.Hermes said …

    tetrahemi, that’s a little vague, don’t you think? How about something more concrete. How about something small, unusual, but entirely unambiguous?

  31. on 25 Feb 2009 at 1:42 am 31.Gern Blansten said …

    tetrahemi, ask your imaginary God to give you a modicum of rationality. It’s amazing you can’t see how ridiculous your religion is. There have been thousands of “gods” since the dawn of modern humans, and none of them have been any more real than the others. Chances are good you will lose your faith someday, and you will look back on your gullibility with a sense of bewilderment. Christianity is a sham, just like Islam and Judaism, and all the others. Deal with it.

  32. on 25 Feb 2009 at 6:25 am 32.Paloma said …

    Yes, I know what Pascal’s Wager is but my belief in God is not based on wagering but based on the fact that I have experienced Him in my life personally, even in situations where there could be no way out, He provided a way out.

    You and the rest of your atheist friends will end up like any other atheist in history-only realizing the Truth at the end of your lives and maybe when it’s too late. Sad isn’t it?

    Read the testimonies of some of your fellow atheists on the last words they said on their death beds.Regret is usually the last words they utter.

    Even with all the hundreds of gods you claim must also be studied, why is the God of the Bible always the one people try to get rid of? could it be because there is some Truth about Him that hurts? As they say, the truth hurts…

    Voltaire, an atheist who lived in the 1700′s once said, “A hundred years after my time, the Bible will cease to exist,”

    Well, guess what Voltaire, the Bible still exists today and it will exist in the years to come.

  33. on 25 Feb 2009 at 7:06 am 33.Paloma said …

    By the way, being a deist (not necessarily an atheist), Voltaire became a Christian towards the end of his life. At least he wasn’t stupid enough to wait until it was too late…even great thinkers like Darwin, Einstein and Galileo, all those people knew the Truth.

    Atheists only quote them when they say something that supports anti-religion as a whole but never really quoted some of their direct quotes that showed support for a belief in God.Oh, you don’t know about those? Please Google them and find out for yourself.

  34. on 25 Feb 2009 at 7:37 am 34.loved one said …

    paloma said :

    “Hermes and Blansten, gambling with your eternity, are you?”

    to which I respond: That is not only a wee bit hypocritical, but also quite patronizing, don’t you think? The instant one adopts a belief system (no matter which one), they enter into a lottery.
    Whether you choose to believe in the God of Abraham, Krishna, Buddha, Poseidon, or one of the other thousands of deities, the sheer number of them makes the odds of any ONE of them being the TRUE one quite slim. Any religious zealot (however genuine their piety may be) ends up looking much like the poor soul who is absolutely “certain” they will win at Super Lotto or the craps table.

    An atheist is one who opts out of the game. They can see that the odds are clearly not in favor of ANY god (as no one has yet PROVEN that any one of the millions do NOT exist!). Atheists are those that choose not to gamble with their *eternity*, and they definitely don’t pretend to understand what that word even means. They are the ones who can see that the house clearly has the upper hand and that the game is rigged. So we exit the casino and breathe the fresh air of life.

    What a relief that we don’t *have* to choose one of a few popular fairy tales in order to be happy and live a life of giving and caring. Nor do we need to convince others that some fairy tale we’ve bought into is the correct one, the one truth. We can tolerate the unknowns without jumping to rash conclusions and in the meantime strive to understand life while we’re in it using the greatest gift of all: rationality.

  35. on 25 Feb 2009 at 11:30 am 35.Gern Blansten said …

    paloma = condescending brainwashed godbot. You need to develop a rational mind instead of relying on your sky daddy. Get a spine and face life yourself. Don’t be a pathetic coward.

  36. on 25 Feb 2009 at 6:29 pm 36.Anonymous said …

    “Yes, I know what Pascal’s Wager is but my belief in God is not based on wagering but based on the fact that I have experienced Him in my life personally, even in situations where there could be no way out, He provided a way out.”

    Then why mention it in your next sentence, while offering nothing to consider it has any basis in reality?

    “You and the rest of your atheist friends will end up like any other atheist in history-only realizing the Truth at the end of your lives and maybe when it’s too late. Sad isn’t it?”

    Maybe you’re just an @$$hole who likes threatening people?

    As for Voltaire, you are making two mistakes;

    1. You swallowed a lie; he didn’t. Go do some research that doesn’t require someone with an agenda.

    2. Appealing to Voltaire or a number of other people is a fallacy; an appeal to authority. You might as well bring up Nietzsche.

  37. on 25 Feb 2009 at 6:43 pm 37.Hermes said …

    Note: Last post was from me.

  38. on 25 Feb 2009 at 10:47 pm 38.godbot said …

    Don’t waste your time in here Christians! There’s no turning one of these.

  39. on 25 Feb 2009 at 11:06 pm 39.Hermes said …

    godbot: “Don’t waste your time in here Christians! There’s no turning one of these.”

    Not if the best that can be done is Pascal’s Wager, that’s for sure!

  40. on 26 Feb 2009 at 12:13 am 40.godbot said …

    That’s funny herm! I am a stainless steel bot! I have impenetrable armor. I have endless power! I wager your soul! I take you with me to the outside darkness.

  41. on 26 Feb 2009 at 12:18 am 41.Hermes said …

    Sounds like a fantasy; like the man who thought he was a zombie.

  42. on 26 Feb 2009 at 1:58 am 42.savedbygrace said …

    Hello lost souls, looks like to me there are some non believers in here? Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so, as God tells me he is the way the truth, and the life. No fantasy Hermes, all truth

  43. on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:03 am 43.savedbygrace said …

    Hello godbot, just wanted to say hi and nice to know you. I’m a Christian also, your word is truth about our Lord and Savior. The power is in his name! No athiest has a chance, lost forever

  44. on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:13 am 44.savedbygrace said …

    Anonomous….God and Jesus are imaginary. What you believe is nonsense.

    Our Holy Bible tells us Jesus is NOT imaginary.
    You are all so foolish! If you only knew what your heading for in these end times, it will be terrible for you if you don’t change your ways, you will experience terror beyond belief, your hearts will stop from pure fear. Give Jesus a try. When you do your eyes will be opened and the truth will be revealed to you all.

  45. on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:22 am 45.Hermes said …

    savedbygrace, you are welcome to talk with the former priests/preachers and evangelicals in the forums. If you want, I can refer you to a few threads started by theologians and priests where it is clear that they did not know what they were talking about and decided that — like you — they would go with the bare unsupported assertion as opposed to an actual discussion.

    I recommend all these things — but only if you appreciate reality.

  46. on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:26 am 46.Hermes said …

    savedbygrace: “You are all so foolish!”

    Really? I hope you dressed lightly…

    Matthew 5:22 “Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.”

    As for ‘end times’ and ‘the rapture’, that’s a concoction from the 1800s. Consider it a precursor to new age woo woo.

  47. on 26 Feb 2009 at 2:33 am 47.Gern Blansten said …

    “Our Holy Bible tells us Jesus is NOT imaginary.”

    That’s like saying, “The bible is accurate because the bible says so.”

    See the flaw? Men wrote the bible. They could’ve made up anything they wanted.

    I could write a bible that says Jesus is a transvestite crack addict.

    Then, in two thousand years, people could point to my bible and say, “Our Holy Bible tells us Jesus is a transvestite crack addict.”

    What you need is evidence for God–without using the bible. Problem is, there ain’t none.

    Face reality. Your religion is a sham and you are a sucker.

  48. on 26 Feb 2009 at 11:52 am 48.Paloma said …

    ‘Maybe you’re just an @$$hole who likes threatening people?’

    My apologies if you felt threatened anonymous (Hermes??), but it’s a fact, as threatening as it may seem.

    But I’m open for suggestions if you can give me the best way to warn people they are going to hell if they don’t accept what Jesus did for them on the cross without offending them or threatening them.

    Please, I’m open for suggestions, really.

    Unfortunately there are some things that no matter in what way you try to explain that will still seem threatening and offending but that you have to tell anyway because there is no other way.

    I would be robbing you if I wasn’t honest with you about hell.It’s like watching someone stepping into the flames and just keeping quiet, get it?

  49. on 26 Feb 2009 at 12:10 pm 49.Hermes said …

    Paloma: “Please, I’m open for suggestions, really.”

    It’s very simple. Stop making assertions that you are correct, and back up what you say.

    I’m not against reality, yet I’ve heard nothing but assertions that you are correct veiled in threats. While I don’t see any reason to take your religious dogma as a claim based in reality seriously, I do take your own threats towards me as an individual seriously — even if you are using a supposed proxy to deliver that threat.

    (And no, telling me you are honest is not very convincing. It’s the kind of thing a used car salesman says about himself.)

    Here’s where you can start if you really want to be honest. Go to the link below and tell me where it is not *factually* and *unambiguously* correct as it describes the Christian religion;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=4607

    I await your honest and informed input. If I only hear veiled threats and unsupported assertions and dogma, expect your lack of courtesy to be returned to you.

  50. on 26 Feb 2009 at 12:15 pm 50.Gern Blansten said …

    I’ll say it: Paloma is an asshole.

    Facts are backed up by evidence. You have none. Worse yet, you’re warped worldview effects other people negatively on a daily basis.

    So fuck off.

  51. on 26 Feb 2009 at 9:05 pm 51.Taylor Hutson said …

    Hey guys, im just reading your blog that i happened to come acrossed.
    Why are you arguing? If you guys want answers, i think you should just simply try to convey your reasons behind your beliefs.

    Paloma, i am a sister in christ and i am going to warn you….dont push your beliefs onto people! it just makes people angry as you can see if you read peoples responses!

    Hermes and Gern, you are open to beliefs, but if you writing on this blog, you need to be open to others as well. I see where you are coming from but i have witnessed Gods grace in my life so much these past few weeks, i just can’t ignore it.

  52. on 26 Feb 2009 at 10:05 pm 52.Gern Blansten said …

    No, actually I’m not open to “beliefs,” unless you mean beliefs that are supported by evidence. I don’t “need” to be open to other peoples’ beliefs if those beliefs are bullshit and cause trouble in the world on a daily basis. My best friend has MS, but the right wing wackos delayed federal funding for stem cell research for eight years. Another friend has Parkinsons. My first boss, great lady, is lesbian and can’t get married, thanks to right wing wackos. They see her as less of a person than they are. Do you believe in these things? If so, you deserve your imaginary hell.

  53. on 26 Feb 2009 at 10:09 pm 53.Hermes said …

    Taylor Hutson, feel free to identify where you think I haven’t been open in what I think or to those who pose what they think. If anything, my back aches from bending over to be accommodating.

    Yet I must demand that we deal with a common reality — one that is shared and one we can mutually agree upon — not situational and solipsistic ‘world views’.

  54. on 26 Feb 2009 at 11:07 pm 54.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Gern, the evidence to prove God, exists in prophecy. You will be forced to recieve a mark on your right hand to buy or sell. World ruler/dictator will arise from 10 region economic divisions(America/Canada/Mexico to be one region.) Isreal rebirthed as a nation from dyaspora after 2000 years in 1948. Jerusalem to be a cup of trembling to the world. World government. Read the headlines, world leaders are screaming for world Government/Economy. World economy (this is obvious). World religion to meld/replace Judeao/christian and Muslim faiths. Jews to accept world ruler as Messiah. Nuclear war,famine,disease to wipe out 4 billion humans. 200 million man army arises out of the Kings of the East(China). Christian/believers to be delivered to governments to be killed. This is all in the Book of Revelations and Daniel. Wave’s so large men will die of heart failure from the fear of seeing them. Could you predict the world economic/political situation 20 centuries into the future? There will also be a confederation of nations led by Russia, that will attempt to invade Isreal. Iran, Turkey,Somalia,Libia will be part of that. The same way the U.S. led the Gulf War coalition. Isreal will destroy them with nuclear weapons. Ezekial 38. Isreal will also destroy Damascus with nuclear weapons.Damascus will be desolate. Figure the odds on that many different prophesied events occuring. How many will it take? Don’t believe in it. But you will experience it.

  55. on 26 Feb 2009 at 11:39 pm 55.Hermes said …

    C_2g-mb5^, prophecy, really? I’ve gone over Christian prophecy claims many times and each time they tend to be;

    * Vague.
    * Post hoc.
    * Conspiratorial (and quite a few years out).

    Like ‘psychics’, prophecy claims tend never to pan out. For example, the city of Tyre;

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel 26&version=31

    If you have something more credible, please present it.

  56. on 27 Feb 2009 at 12:10 am 56.Gern Blansten said …

    Take your meds.

  57. on 27 Feb 2009 at 12:47 am 57.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Hermes and Gern, nothing vague about the technology to implant a mark in your right hand:http://www.rense.com/general31/chiup.htm as a fulfillment of Revelation 13:16. The word used in Greek is “charakter” derived from charax meaning a stake, to impale. That is inject. Nothing vague about the rebirth of Isreal prophesied. Does Isreal exist today after 2000 years in dyaspora? Nothing vague about the prophesy of 4,000,000,000 humans being killed. Nuclear weaponry can accomplish this quite easily. World Government and world economy? Very conspiritorial but inevitable.
    The city of Tyre? This link will help you:http://www.padfield.com/1994/tyre.html
    As for you paste of Ezekial:1, I don’t see where your going with that. I know that passage intimately. It describes the Throne of Christ in majesty with the Father in Spirit and the 3rd person of the Godhead the Holy spirit. A more accurate translation of it is found in the King James translation using the Hebrew Texts from the Vulgate. As far as prophetical scripture being “post hoc”, yes! Revelations show a common sense sequence of the destruction of this present world order.

  58. on 27 Feb 2009 at 12:55 am 58.Hermes said …

    C_2g-mb5^, the city of Tyre still exists. The passage I referenced showed that the destruction was to be permanent. That you did not acknowledge that demonstratable failure of prophecy, and instead posted a long article that contradicts the passage says quite a bit.

  59. on 27 Feb 2009 at 12:59 am 59.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Thye mainland city of Tyre has never been rebuilt, you deny the history of Alexander

  60. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:09 am 60.Gern Blansten said …

    I’d like to propose a theory that nobody has ever been able to refute.

    1. There is no god or gods; the theory of evolution is accurate.

    2. The only supernatural entity in existence is Satan. He didn’t create mankind, but he does have some limited powers than can be quite annoying.

    3. Satan wrote the Bible as a means to torment mankind. He wants us to think there is a god and a wonderful afterlife, but there isn’t. He also wrote the Koran, just to stir up trouble. Tricky bastard.

    4. Satan planted the idea of intelligent design into some humans’ brains as a means to create havoc on earth. It appears to be working.

    5. Satan occasionally uses his limited powers to create “evidence” of intelligent design. For instance, he might make some organisms appear irreducibly complex.

    If you can provide evidence that I’m wrong about any of this, I’m sure we would all be relieved. I know it’s a difficult task to prove something like this is wrong–sort of like asking an atheist to prove there is no god. But it makes every bit as much sense as your ramblings.

    If you say the bible is evidence for your beliefs, remember that it is evidence for my theory too. In fact, the bible supports my theory more than yours, because why would your god write a bible full of contradictions and inconsistencies? It makes more sense that Satan wrote it.

  61. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:27 am 61.Hermes said …

    C_2g-mb5^, but that’s not what the passage says, does it?

  62. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:48 am 62.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Gern, that is a well thought out theory. I believe like you that Satan has Supernatural ability. I believe that he has supreme power in the spiritual realm. He influences men to create millions of Dieties so they will not worship the one true living God. Satan was Lucifer and was created as the most powerful Archangel to direct all of the angelic worship to Christ. God searched the hearts of his angelic host and found rebellion against God in the heart of Lucifer, whereupon he was cast out. Satan not only convinces men that God does not exist as an act of rebellion against God, he convinces men that he does not exist. Satans plan is to seperate men from God so that God will never be able to reveal his majesty to men and bring those men into their planned position as sons in a new creation.

  63. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:50 am 63.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Gern If I didn’t have a solid foundation in my faith yours would be the most logical explanation for why this is one screwed up existence.

  64. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:51 am 64.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    Hermes, what?

  65. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:58 am 65.Taylor Hutson said …

    Hermes, sorry, i didn’t mean to say you weren’t “open” you are being extremely reasonable.

    To everyone, i think we all can have a conversation without swearing at eachother. It is completely disrespectful.

    Don’t you guys EVER feel like there is something missing from your life? I know i did. I tried to fill that longing and desire with drinking, drugs, and just plain fun. All of this left me craving and longing for something more. The cool thing about God is that he is my best friend. I talk to him about everything and i always feel his presence. Just like we feel Satan, i also feel God. and to me, God is stronger than Satan.

    Here is a good analogy. If a person was standing in the middle of the road, with a huge semi-truck barreling down upon them, what would you do? You would (i hope) try and shout and scream and attempt to somehow get their attention and save them. That is how Christians feel. With what we believe, I feel like atheists are the people standing in the middle of the road and satan is the semi-truck. He destroyes lives. The bad things that happen in the world all comes from Satan. How much would you have to hate a person not to say, shout, or scream anything at them? Im sorry, but i dont hate anyone that much.

    Gern:
    Here is my theory.
    First question. So you are teling me that you believe everything exploded from nothing right? How is that possible?
    1. There is a God. The theory of evolution is
    inaccurate. Scientists have gotten on the news and showed a “skull head” that they claim to have found. They then claim that they actually only foun a tiny piece of a skull and actually molded the rest to what they think it should look like. This disproves your evolution theory. Scientists of the world today mold tiny pieces of evidence to fit THEIR worldly views. THAT is a fact.
    2. You never have good withouth evil. How can you have an evil entity without having something to contridict it?
    To your first blog back to me, Im sorry hear about your friends. However, it is not God’s fault that our leaders didn’t make stem cell research legal. You cannot blame God for that. And i do disagree with your boss being a lesbian. I believe that it is sin. However, that doesn’t make her any less of a person. The bible says, “love the sinner, not the sin.” Anyone who treats your boss differently, is wrong. We dont have to agree with what she does or believes in, but we still love her as a person.

  66. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:18 am 66.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    ” but that’s not what the passage says, does it?”
    If what you were refering to is the Tyre passage,then you have to read it in full. It says::And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon: and thou shalt be built no more” This is describing where the original mainland city is. It is now covered over and is underneath the coast! The current Tyre is built adjacent to the original destroyed Tyre whose foundations are covered.

  67. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:20 am 67.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    I have to give you guys credit for your critical thinking. If you guys ever became bible expositors you’d both be pretty formidable

  68. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:24 am 68.C_2g-mb5^ said …

    I’ve got to call it a night. I’ll try to get back here again.I enjoyed talking with both you guy’s Hermes, Gern. You guys are pretty sharp! Take care.

  69. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:27 am 69.Gern Blansten said …

    Taylor, you are painfully ignorant about evolution. You deny it because it threatens your imaginary god.

    Watch this video and the other videos in the series:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4_lVTVa6k&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

    These are world-renowned scientists, some of them Christians, and they will set you straight. Of course, if you are shackled to your imaginary god, you will deny everything you hear and see. If gravity threatened your belief in god, you would deny gravity.

    I am occasionally disrespectful because religion affects the world negatively on a daily basis. If you wonder why some atheists are angry about the situation, read this blog entry:

    http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html

    To the guy with the weird name: Everything you said in your last post proves that you have fallen for Satan’s trick as outlined in my theory. Thanks for helping me prove my theory correct.

  70. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:42 am 70.Gern Blansten said …

    Taylor, just because religion fills the hole in your life and makes you feel good, that doesn’t mean god exists.

    I never feel like anything is missing in my life. I have a great wife, a great family, great friends, a rewarding career, and plenty of happiness. The only thing that bothers me on a regular basis is the extent to which religions harms society.

    We don’t know how life began, but that doesn’t mean god exists. The theory of evolution doesn’t address the beginning of life. The fact that you think it does only reveals your ignorance. Look up the word “abiogenesis.”

    I don’t mean to sound curt, but I’ve had this debate countless times and many Christians are unwilling to look at evidence. I don’t mean evidence like the bible, because that isn’t evidence. I’m talking about scientific evidence. If you aren’t willing to look at scientific evidence and what it reveals, don’t even bother to reply.

  71. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:43 am 71.Gern Blansten said …

    Also, I wrote another post before that last one, but it’s being held up for moderation for some reason.

  72. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:44 am 72.Gern Blansten said …

    Taylor, you are painfully ignorant about evolution. You deny it because it threatens your imaginary god.

    Watch this video and the other videos in the series:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4_lVTVa6k&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

    These are world-renowned scientists, some of them Christians, and they will set you straight. Of course, if you are shackled to your imaginary god, you will deny everything you hear and see. If gravity threatened your belief in god, you would deny gravity.

    I am occasionally disrespectful because religion affects the world negatively on a daily basis. If you wonder why some atheists are angry about the situation, read this blog entry:

    http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2007/10/atheists-and-an.html

  73. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:47 am 73.Gern Blansten said …

    Taylor, go here for abiogenesis:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_life

  74. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:54 am 74.Hermes said …

    Taylor Hutson, I’ve read a variety of religious books — some good, some bad, some better than most, others worse. I’d put your religious text somewhere between the Tao de Ching and Dianetics. For me, I take from every book and discovery what I find valuable, but so far I see no honest reason to take the supernatural claims as statements about reality.

    A couple questions: How many gods and/or religions have you investigated? Do you continue to look at them, or have you decided to stop at this point?

  75. on 27 Feb 2009 at 2:58 am 75.Hermes said …

    Taylor Hutson, why do you reject evolution while most Christians and Christian organizations (sects and religious groups/churches) accept it as not in conflict with their religious beliefs?

    Note: If evolution were shown to be invalid, as you phrase it, that would not impact my current lack of religiousness.

  76. on 27 Feb 2009 at 11:33 am 76.Paloma said …

    Sister, Taylor

    I’m not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone, I’m just trying to reason with them so that to some extend, they can understand how we as believers think and why we say the things we say.

    Funny enough, yesterday I was watching a documentary on prayer and Scientific evidence. Obviously, in the documentary, they said the effectiveness of prayer cannot be prove with Scientific evidence.

    This is because Science and the spiritual divination are two different things.Doctors in the documentary decided to do one test that can prove the effectiveness of prayer. They had two groups of equally terminally ill patients.

    They decided that one group will be prayed for over a period of time while the other will not be prayed for at all.Funny enough, they said after a period of time, the group that was receiving the prayers had more people who survived than the group that did not receive prayers at all.

    The group that did not receive prayers had more people who died while the ones that received prayers were reacting well to medication and improving in their health although only a few of them died compared to the other group.

    This may not be much of evidence but there is no doubt that prayer works!Doctors even said if this was a test for medication, it would be a breakthrough.They said the prayer group was three times likely to survive than the one that did not receive prayers at all.Prayer indeed works, hallelujah!!

  77. on 27 Feb 2009 at 11:37 am 77.Gern Blansten said …

    Paloma, there are plenty of studies showing the opposite, that prayer does nothing if the sick person doesn’t know they are being prayed for.

    Obviously it can have a placebo effect if the person knows about the prayers.

    If prayer works, why won’t god heal amputees?

    Why don’t you pray for god to heal my almost-blind left eye. I’ll let you know how that turns out.

    You’re turning into a troll.

  78. on 27 Feb 2009 at 11:38 am 78.Gern Blansten said …

    Paloma said:

    “Obviously, in the documentary, they said the effectiveness of prayer cannot be prove with Scientific evidence.”

    Then Paloma said:

    “This may not be much of evidence but there is no doubt that prayer works!”

    Don’t you realize how idiotic you look?

  79. on 27 Feb 2009 at 11:40 am 79.Gern Blansten said …

    Paloma also said:

    “I’m just trying to reason with them”

    Religion isn’t about reason, it’s about the LACK of reason.

    You are delusional. Reason is the only thing that will get you OUT of religion.

  80. on 27 Feb 2009 at 12:47 pm 80.taylor hutson said …

    Gern: I never said that evolution had anything to do with the beginning of life. I just put them in the same paragraph. Think about this, you say that religion “harms society.” That is an athiest’s point of view. What do all religions think then? You can disagree with someone withouth thinking they are “harming” society. Where do you believe you go when you die?

  81. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:12 pm 81.Gern Blansten said …

    Actually, no, that’s not an atheist’s point of view. Many moderate Christians realize that the fundamentalists poison everything they touch. Many moderate Muslims understand that suicide bombers and men who fly planes into buildings are harmful. Do you think 9/11 wasn’t harmful?

    Are you in favor of female genital mutilation? Do you know what that is?

    Are you in favor of gays being physically assaulted in the name of religion?

    Are you in favor of priests molesting young boys because the priest’s sexual identity has been so deformed by their beliefs? Are you in favor of the church helping cover up the molestation?

    The list goes on and on. I could spend all day reciting ways in which religion is harmful, and none of it has to do with me being an atheist.

  82. on 27 Feb 2009 at 1:13 pm 82.Gern Blansten said …

    Where do we go when we die?

    Nowhere. We are dead.

    We certainly don’t go to some fairy-tale happy place in the sky.

  83. on 27 Feb 2009 at 10:15 pm 83.Hermes said …

    taylor hutson: “Think about this, you say that religion “harms society.” That is an athiest’s point of view.”

    Not at all. See for yourself;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=2076

    taylor hutson: “What do all religions think then?”

    Interesting you should mention that. Any comments on my questions? For reference, here they are again;

    A couple questions: How many gods and/or religions have you investigated? Do you continue to look at them, or have you decided to stop at this point?

  84. on 27 Feb 2009 at 10:22 pm 84.Hermes said …

    taylor hutson, one note on the link I posted. In it, you can see links to different databases covering crime and religion where you can dig through the data yourself if you are interested in that honest investment of time and effort.

    Another good site is the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life;

    http://pewforum.org

    If you know of other resources beyond Pew and the ones listed in the thread I posted, please feel free to offer them as a recommendation. Please note that the resources I provided are either impartial databases covering a wide variety of issues, or are research documents with verifiable links. None are unsupported opinions.

  85. on 27 Feb 2009 at 10:27 pm 85.Hermes said …

    taylor hutson: “Where do you believe you go when you die?”

    I’ve covered that in the forums many times. Here’s one example;

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php?topic=4391.msg92108#msg92108

    If you have any input, please feel free to offer it. Provide verifiable facts wherever you are able to.

  86. on 01 Mar 2009 at 6:07 pm 86.Taylor Hutson said …

    Gern: “nowwhere.”

    one question,
    What if your wrong?

  87. on 01 Mar 2009 at 6:48 pm 87.Gern Blansten said …

    Taylor, I’m sure you think that’s a very pithy retort, but it’s really quite lame.

    What if you’re wrong about Islam?

    What if you’re wrong about Judaism?

    What if you wrong about Hindu?

    What if you’re wrong about Scientology?

    What if you’re wrong about Mormonism?

    It goes on and on.

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Zeus instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Odin instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Ba’al instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Quetzlcoatl instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Ra instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Elegua instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Bondye instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Akka instead?

    What if you’re wrong about Yahweh and you should be worshipping Raksasa instead?

    There have been thousands of gods, and the people who believed in these gods were every bit as sure as you that they were following the “right” and “only” god. It makes all of you look very foolish.

    How about creation myths? There are thousands of those, too.

    Here’s a good one:

    In the Bakuba account of demiurge, the Earth was originally nothing but water and darkness, ruled by the white giant Mbombo. This giant, after feeling an intense pain in his stomach one day, vomited up the sun, moon, and stars. The heat and light form the sun evaporated the water covering Earth, creating clouds, and after time, the dry hills emerged from the water. Mbombo vomited once more. Many things were contained in this second vomiting — people (the first man and the first woman), animals (the leopard, the eagle, and the monkey Fumu), trees, the falling star, the anvil, the firmament, the razor, medicine, and lighting. The woman of the waters, Nchienge, lived in the East, and her son, Woto, became the first king of the Bakuba.

    You probably think it sounds kind of silly, and yes, it does, just like you’re own creation myth in Genesis. And both have an equal amount of evidence, which is none.

    Feel free to dedicate your life to superstition, just don’t let it effect my life in the form of bigotry, hate, intolerance, etc.

  88. on 01 Mar 2009 at 10:38 pm 88.Hermes said …

    Taylor Hutson: “one question,
    What if your wrong?”

    Taylor, is Pascal’s Wager the reason why you became a Christian, or why you remain a Christian?

    I’m betting it was not and is not.

    Why do you think others would be convinced by Pascal’s Wager if you were not?

    Recommendation: Stop doing that. It insults you (since it implies you found it to be a reason why you became a Christina) and it insults others and your own religion (since it implies that they would find it to be a good reason to take Christianity seriously but that there is little reason to consider Christianity for other reasons alone).

  89. on 01 Mar 2009 at 10:39 pm 89.Hermes said …

    [oops ... sorry for the typos]

  90. on 02 Mar 2009 at 9:55 am 90.Witness said …

    I live in Africa, here witchcraft and magic is real, especially in rural areas. People take time to travel a hundred kilometers and pay thousands of dollars to visit a witch doctor and they get the help they need… and I mean real results.

    One of them that practiced witchcraft (who’s name I cannot reveal)was a ‘powerful’ witchdoctor who died recently and he was a millionaire just because he was known to be affective and people consulted him secretly. This man, as ‘powerful’ as he was, was afraid of one thing-the Name of Jesus. If it is so imaginary then why is he afraid of hearing that name? He did not even permit any Christians to come near his area.

    The answer is simple, witchcraft and the spiritual world are real, and as part of the kingdom of darkness, witchdoctors cannot stand the Name of Jesus because they recognize the power that is in that name.

    I know this man’s son personally, he became a born again and had told us shocking details of how things are done in spiritual practices and how they are kept a secret from the average person. This boy became ill when he was first prayed for because he was exposed to abnormal practices before he became born again.Now he is a normal guy with a normal life. Just because these things are not exposed openly does not mean they are not real.

    The fact that this man was afraid of Christians actually means there must be some reality to the God the Christians serve.

  91. on 02 Mar 2009 at 11:36 am 91.Gern Blansten said …

    Here’s what you can do for fun:

    1. Prove that black magic is real.

    2. Win the Nobel Prize.

  92. on 02 Mar 2009 at 11:37 am 92.Gern Blansten said …

    “The fact that this man was afraid of Christians actually means there must be some reality to the God the Christians serve.”

    The fact that some people are afraid of spiders actually means there must be some reality to the legend of the Spider God.

  93. on 02 Mar 2009 at 11:46 am 93.Hermes said …

    Witness, if what you say is true, why haven’t any of these people you say can perform ‘real witchcraft’ tried to claim the $1,000,000 from JREF?

    The deafening silence, to me, shows the level of either your honesty or your credulity.

  94. on 02 Mar 2009 at 11:48 am 94.Hermes said …

    Gern: “The fact that some people are afraid of spiders actually means there must be some reality to the legend of the Spider God.”

    Good analogy.

    I doubt that Witness will be willing to back up what they posted; it’s all propaganda. We’ll never ‘see’ this one again.

  95. on 03 Mar 2009 at 10:58 am 95.Witness said …

    Oh, so you want proof that black magic exists? please, be my guest. Take the next plane to Africa and I’ll accompany you to a witch doctor’s hut.

    Have your five thousand dollars ready and you better mean business because no witchdoctor is going to perform rituals for the sake of trying to prove a point to anybody the point being of course that it’s a secret practice.

    Be prepared to make sacrifices that usually involve shedding of blood and other hair raising instructions.
    Unfortunately I cannot give you the proof you need on my own as I’m a Christian and only a witness to it but not a practitioner thereof so it’s better you visit one yourself.

    ‘Witness, if what you say is true, why haven’t any of these people you say can perform ‘real witchcraft’ tried to claim the $1,000,000 from JREF?’

    This power has limits and usually it is assigned to a specific request.Such requests are usually around enriching someone (although not too rich as it would raise suspicion)and it’s usually costly and requires high sacrifices, healing and the desire to have an enemy removed or paid back in some way without suspicion or to look for answers to certain things.

    When I mean powerful, I don’t mean unlimited power, I meant in terms of effectiveness although witchdoctors do have a limit to what they do according to the spirits they consult.They know that if they have to do something traumatic, it would raise suspicions so they keep a low profile as they don’t want to blow their business.

    As for the part where you talk of spiders gods, let’s not even go there. I don’t reply to sarcastic remarks…

  96. on 03 Mar 2009 at 10:59 am 96.Gern Blansten said …

    I call Poe.

  97. on 03 Mar 2009 at 7:15 pm 97.Hermes said …

    Poe? I agree.

  98. on 05 Mar 2009 at 9:01 pm 98.NJ Dumas said …

    I dont see the point in debating if all people do is be closed minded…

  99. on 05 Mar 2009 at 9:12 pm 99.Gern Blansten said …

    I’m open-minded (though, admittedly, extremely skeptical) regarding the possible existence of a god or gods. Do you have some evidence for your god?

Trackback This Post | Subscribe to the comments through RSS Feed

Leave a Reply