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Christianity &Islam &Rationals Johnson on 02 Jan 2009 12:55 am

Imagine If All Atheists Left America

11 Responses to “Imagine If All Atheists Left America”

  1. on 02 Jan 2009 at 6:58 am 1.Danny said …

    WTF! There are more atheists in Iran than in the Philippines? I don’t believe it.

  2. on 02 Jan 2009 at 9:52 pm 2.Kevin said …

    But no one wants them to leave though.

  3. on 02 Jan 2009 at 10:28 pm 3.Hermes said …

    Kevin, there are people who do, or at a minimum revoke constitutional rights such as being able to vote or claim citizenship.

  4. on 05 Jan 2009 at 5:42 am 4.Anonymous said …

    I’m an atheist and I agree that the country would be worse off without us but I hate it when fallacious logic is used to defend a point I support.
    I agree with Bill Maher in his movie Religulous when he claims that atheism is a luxury. The low atheism rates in those countries are likely symptoms of the lack of development and not causes. American fundamentalists are probably just as religious as Middle Eastern extremists but even when America’s economy is in the toilet it’s better then most of the world’s. Poverty is almost invariably the root cause to the majority of crime in the world.
    I understand the point and I’m not really trying to attack it. People in general, even atheists, are guilty of not holding arguments for their own side up to the same logical rigor as we hold others. Many of the arguments that I once held high for atheism I could refute now. If atheists continue to go around touting arguments that are fallacious then we are exactly what the theists think we are. Just a bunch of assholes.

  5. on 05 Jan 2009 at 1:31 pm 5.Hermes said …

    Anonymous, check the statistics for those countries and you will see that even similarly situated countries are better off when fewer people are religious.

    Here’s a thread in the forums with a couple overviews, plus details you can check yourself;


  6. on 06 Jan 2009 at 2:37 am 6.j said …

    ok, how would abortion rates increase again? im sorry but i see a better society. religion is founded on morals, and true christians, “not i go to church sometimes to seem pure”, are more often than not a moral sound people.

  7. on 06 Jan 2009 at 4:33 am 7.SameAnonymous said …

    Correlation is not causation. It could easily be said that the cause for the higher atheism rates was the positive situation in the country and not the other way around. And this is my problem. This is a very simple logical fallacy that is central to many atheist arguments against theists. If we ignore it for our own evidence, how can we attack theists on this ground?
    As much as you and everybody, I would like to believe that if everyone chose my lifestyle the world would be better off but that isn’t necessarily the case. It could be and I like to think it is but these statistics just aren’t proof.
    However, I would like to remind our theist friends that the increased atheism in these countries doesn’t seem to do anything to halt the drop in crime rates. Phil Zuckerman states in the video that he isn’t claiming secularism as the cause. It could be but there really is no way we can make that claim on logical grounds.
    Now, what the data does imply to us is that theism does not serve to support prosperity. We can’t say that it counteracts prosperity or that atheism does support it.

  8. on 06 Jan 2009 at 4:44 am 8.SameAnonymous said …

    I didn’t specifically call J out in that last post but just to direct this at him, the data suggests that society would definitely not get better with more theism. I would also argue that a psychological studies of continually shown that religion has no correlation with moral fortitude. Social experiments have shown that men of religion are no more helpful to their fellow man than anyone else.(I personally became much more interested in my own morality after becoming an atheist.) Also, the argument that abortion rates would increase stems from the fact that many Christian religions and perhaps some others forbid the use of contraceptives during sex which would certainly result in an increase in pregnancies. The amount of abortions in a country are generally proportional in some way to the amount of pregnancies in a given year and it could be argued that once someone is in a situation where an unplanned baby is on the way, they would be more likely to fall to temptation, as a theist might put it, and get an abortion. I can’t say whether or not this is true but it is definitely a plausible argument.

  9. on 06 Jan 2009 at 1:06 pm 9.Hermes said …

    J, I don’t see a mention in this thread about abortion. You’re the first one to bring it up.

    If you are referring to the thread I posted, then please check the data posted there first before rejecting it out of hand.

  10. on 07 Jan 2009 at 4:27 am 10.loved one said …

    j said: “religion is founded on morals”

    Well, at least it’s nice to hear a theist get this partially right – because so many believers seem to think that morals came out of religion which is simply false. That being said, I don’t see why acknowledging that human morality exists outside the realm of religion and can and does function as a means of preserving life and (hopefully) our planet would be any sort of argument *for* religion. It seems clear to me that if people can live in an ethical manner (which is clearly evident from more secular cultures) without the patronizing threats of punishment which most religions offer, then there is little to support the argument j is attempting to make.

  11. on 20 Jan 2009 at 12:18 am 11.equal time said …

    I understand the good point of the video, but I must agree that the viewer is lead to believe falsehoods. Disengenuous logic weaken good arguments from either side. When used, people tend to argue over the validity of the logic instead of the points involved. I would rather not be lead down a path of talking about the per capita crime rate without first discussing the seriousness of the crimes of the 0.25% of the criminals who were atheists. I don’t know, but it could be true that the aethists commit the most heinous crimes and the world really would be better off without them. Statistics don’t tell the whole story.

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