Feed on Posts or Comments 23 October 2014

Christianity Johnson on 18 Dec 2008 12:33 am

God is love??? Anyone can see that God is hate.

How badly can religion bend a person’s brain? There is no better way to see how far the bending can go than to have a religious person expound on “God’s love.” Here Billy Graham tries his hand at it:

God loves us despite our sins

A reader writes to Billy with this question:

DEAR DR. GRAHAM: A friend of mine claims the Bible says that God is violent and angry, and He takes pleasure in punishing people when they get out of line. Is this true? I’m not sure I want to believe in God if He is like that. — K.R.

Billy opens his answer this way:

No, this is not what the Bible teaches about God. Instead, it tells us that God is merciful and loving, and He is far more patient with us than we’ll ever deserve. The Bible says, “You are a forgiving God, gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love” (Nehemiah 9:17).

The book of Nehemiah is in the old testament. This is the same testament where God (according to the Bible, but not in reality) kills nearly every human and animal on the planet with a gigantic, violent flood. The same testament that tells us to kill our fellow man for the slightest offenses. The same testament that promotes slavery and turns women into property. Some choice quotes from God in the Old Testament:

Genesis 6:

So the LORD said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

Isaiah chapter 13:

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.

Deuteronomy 22:

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Exodus Chapter 21:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Exodus 35:

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.

Where might anyone get the impression that “God is violent and angry, and He takes pleasure in punishing people when they get out of line???” Perhaps from reading the Bible.

Then Billy turns to the New Testament:

But God loves us despite our sins! He made us, and He knows that when we live apart from Him, we’ll always be empty and unfulfilled inside. Our greatest need is to know God — and God wants us to know Him! And He has done everything that was necessary to make this possible. He did this by sending His only Son, Jesus Christ, into the world to become the final and complete sacrifice for our sins.

Jesus is a “complete sacrifice for our sins” unless we choose not to believe in Jesus. In that case, we get sentenced to eternal torture in the fires of Hell. How loving! Jesus also offers loving advice like this in Matthew 5:

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

To believe that God is love, someone has to somehow redefine love as “eternal torture for billions of people”. Only the delusion of religion would allow someone to redefine love in this way.

To every rational person, it is obvious that K.R. is absolutely right: God is violent and angry, and He takes pleasure in punishing people. Anyone who reads the Bible can see that. Anyone with common sense can see that God is hate, not love.

If you are tired of believing in such a ridiculous, hateful “god”, this book can help:

- WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com

26 Responses to “God is love??? Anyone can see that God is hate.”

  1. on 18 Dec 2008 at 6:34 pm 1.Hermes said …

    So, the message of the Bible is; humans are so evil, they should be quiet and accept the beatings as they should be flayed alive — and likely will be in death.

    Reminds me of the stories of a battered wife, who when asked why she didn’t call the police replies “But, he loves me!”.

    The only difference in this case, is if the police investigate … they find out the ‘wife’ is not married, there is no ‘husband’, and when surveillance is checked they find the ‘wife’ inflicting the harm upon herself.

    Surely there is a less degrading way to live a life?

  2. on 18 Dec 2008 at 7:18 pm 2.Kneebow said …

    Have you ever lied? Have you ever stolen? Have you ever hated someone (which is murder)? Then you are a wretched person.

    If God keeping you silent? Is God keeping me silent? You are free to condemn yourself.

    I know it was an abstract example but:

    If a Christian man batters his wife he is also beating the Church, as men should love their wives like Christ loved the Church. Christianity does not support the beating of any person unjustly. We obey a just God.

    Christ, you know God, died for us, for the sins of the whole world. He bore the punsihment we deserve, that is death, for us. Now people are not stoned for blaspehiming God, are they? You would know. Christ died for you; even you have benifited from His common grace, though not saving grace. I’d hate to think of what you and I would desrve if we lived under the Law.

    Thank the Lord that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

  3. on 18 Dec 2008 at 9:59 pm 3.Kneebow said …

    Dr. John Macarthur says this about your Bible passages from his Bible Commentary:

    What should be my response to God’s Word?

    Believe it (John 6:68).
    Honor it (Job 23:12).
    Love it (Ps. 119:97).
    Obey it (1 John 2:5).
    Guard it (1 Tim 6:20).
    Fight for it (Jude 3).
    Preach it (2 Tim 4:2)
    Study it (Ezra 7:10)

    “As God’s redemptive purposes and plan unfold in Scripture, fire continuing motifs are emphasized:

    The character of God
    The judgment for sin and disobedience
    The blessings of faith and obedience
    The Lord Savior and sacrifice for sin
    The coming kingdom and glory

    “Everything revealed on the pages of both the OT and NT is associated with those five categories.”

    “Scripture repeatedly deals with the matter of man’s sin, which leads to divine judgment…Throughout the OT appears the relentless record of continual devastation produced by sin and disobedience to God’s law.”

    Genesis 6:11

    “Corrupt…filled with violence.”
    “The seed of Satan, the fallen rejecters of God, deceitful and destructive, had dominated the world.”

    A holy just God, will not stand for the wickedness of His fallen creations. He chose a righteous man to help save the world from these evil people who proliferated the earth.

    6:13
    “I will destroy them with the earth.”
    “Destroy did not mean annihilation, but rather referred to the Flood judgment, both of the earth and its inhabitants.”

    Isaiah 13:15

    “The prophet, for the moment, returned to the immediate future when the Medes committed all those cruel atrocities in captured Babylon. For more brutal acts see verse 18.”

    Deuteronomy 22:22-29

    “Adultery was punished by death for the two found in the act…if the man forced (i.e. raped) the woman, then only the man’s life was required.”

    “In the NT, the Lord Savior came and actually provided the promised sacrifice for sin on the Cross. Having fulfilled all righteousness by His perfect life, He fulfilled justice by His death. Thus, God Himself atoned for sin, at a cost to great for the human mind to fathom. Now, He graciously supplies on their behalf all the merit necessary for His people to be objects of His favor. This is what Scripture means by salvation through grace.”

    “God is love.”

    1 John 4:16

  4. on 19 Dec 2008 at 12:05 am 4.Hermes said …

    Kneebow, have you ever been Kirk Cameron? Have you ever been Ray Comfort?

  5. on 19 Dec 2008 at 12:14 am 5.Kneebow said …

    Hermes, you are strong in the force.

  6. on 19 Dec 2008 at 12:45 am 6.GotMooo said …

    “Christ, you know God, died for us, for the sins of the whole world. He bore the punsihment we deserve, that is death, for us. Now people are not stoned for blaspehiming God, are they?”

    I’m glad God learned his lesson. Apparently violence isn’t the answer. Well actually, I’m glad the people who founded Christianity wanted a more liberal God. One who has evolved to fit their desires… A God who is loving!

    “A holy just God, will not stand for the wickedness of His fallen creations. He chose a righteous man to help save the world from these evil people who proliferated the earth.”

    So God did interfere with free will. And he really should have sent his self sooner. I would suggest when Adam and Eve were around. There’s no reason for a delay.

  7. on 19 Dec 2008 at 2:07 am 7.Kneebow said …

    God is not a political term. He has always loved those that serve Him and do His will. There are countless examples of people that disobeyed God but because He loved them He gave them life: David committed adultery and killed the former husband of his soon to be wife, as dictated in 2nd Samuel yet he was forgiven (Read Psalm 51); Solomon, David’s son, strayed from the Lord yet God granted Him to be the wisest man who ever lived (though not in that order); and perhaps the conversion of Paul is the most dramatic; for he was a Judaist who persecuted the early Church and even okayed the death of certain saints like Stephen, yet Christ saved Him by grace through faith (Acts 9). If you come to repentance and trust in Christ then God will forgive you and give you life through His Son.

    Predestination and free will exist together. Things are determined according to a destiny and we can choose our own path. Judas chose to betray Christ yet he was also working according to God’s predetermined will. The Bible says that everyone who confesses the name of the Lord will be saved (Romans 10), yet He also predestines us according to His will (Ephesians 1). It is a mystery and is one of the intriguing aspects: how God works things together for His glory.

    God would not love unless he allowed us to choose. If we are not allowed to have the choice of obedience and disobedience then God would not truly know who we are, and thus to abolish such an act would be cruel. God loves our personalities, who we are, and we love Him for His character and who He is, for He is a person, perfect and holy.

    God didn’t send His self, but His son, who is God as well (John 1:1; Colossians 3, for just the start of a study). His son is a distinct person yet the fullness of the father dwells within Him. It’s a very mysterious and beautiful relationship. The Father executes the plan, the Son carries out the plan, and the Holy Spirit affirms what has been done (John 14, 17). Jesus receives all the glory because He actually followed through with the plans of God, bearing the pain of persecution and death on the cross. And by glorifying the Son you glorify the Father who begotten Him. Praise God.

    Think of God the Father like a loving Father who must disipline his children. He is holy and just and must discipline sin. He so loved the world that He sent His only son to die for its sins and whoever believes in Him shall have eternal life (John 3:16).

    Satan exists for the glory of God. We live in a fallen world and Jesus is its Light. All things will fall away and God will take His adopted children to heaven. Glory be to God who works things all together for His glory.

  8. on 19 Dec 2008 at 2:08 am 8.loved one said …

    kneebow, why do you insist on quoting your book of fairytales? it is no more based in reality than the myths of any other culture. get a grip.
    you’re sounding worse than a broken record.

    this is about how relevant your bible verses are here:

    “At that time Subhuti, hearing the pronouncement of this sermon, deeply understood its meaning suddenly. He wept and lamented, and then addressed the Buddha, saying: “It is extraordinary, World Honored One, that the Buddha expounds thusly such an incredibly profound canonical sermon. Since formerly coming to obtaining the wisdom-eye, I have never before heard such a sermon. World Honored One, if again there is a person who hears this sermon with a believing mind that is pure, then they will give rise to the sign of reality. It should be known that this person will have entirely accomplished the best, most extraordinary merit. World Honored One, this sign of reality then is a non-sign. This is why the Tathagata has said that it is called the ‘real sign’. World Honored One, having heard thusly this canonical sermon, and sincerely understood it, receiving and upholding it is no longer difficult. If there shall come into the world after five hundred years, beings who hear this sermon with sincere understanding, receiving and upholding it, then they would be made most extraordinary. What is the reason? These people would be without the views of a self, a person, beings, or a soul. Why is that? The view of self then is this non-sign. The views of a person, beings, and a soul then are this non-sign. What is the reason? Departing, from all signs, they then are called Buddhas.”

    The Buddha told Subhuti, “Yes, yes. If again there is a person who hears this sermon, and is not astonished, alarmed, or fearful; it should be known that this person would be made most extraordinary. What is the reason? Subhuti, the Tathagata has explained that the first perfection is then not the first perfection: This is called the first perfection. Subhuti, the perfection of perseverance (kshanti), the Tathagata has said, is not the perfection of perseverance. What is the reason? Subhuti, as I had formerly had my body sliced to pieces by King Kalinga, I in that time was without the views of a self, a person, beings, or a soul. What is the reason? When I in that former time had been limb from limb cut apart, if there had been the views of a self, a person, beings, or a soul; there would have arisen in me anger and indignation. Subhuti, further, I recall that in the past five hundred incarnations I had been an ascetic practicing perseverance. In that incarnation, I was without the view of a self, without the view of a person, without the view of beings, and without the view of a soul. Subhuti, bodhisattvas should depart from all signs while initiating the annutara-samyak-sambodhicitta. They should not dwell in forms when giving rise to that thought. They should not dwell in sounds, odors, tastes, sensations, or dharmas when giving rise to that thought. They should dwell nowhere when giving rise to that thought. If in thought they were to have a dwelling, then it would be to become non-dwelling. For this reason, the Buddha has said that the bodhisattva’s thought should not dwell in forms regarding charity. Subhuti, the bodhisattvas creating blessings for every sentient being should thus be charitable. The Tathagata has said that all signs then is the non-sign. Further, he has said that all sentient beings, then are not sentient beings. Subhuti, the Tathagata’s discourses are true, real, thus, not false, and not contradictory. Subhuti, the Dharma that the Tathagata has attained is neither true nor false. Subhuti, if a bodhisattva’s thought dwells in dharmas while practicing charity, it would be like a person entering darkness, and therefore being unable to see anything. If a bodhisattva’s thought does not dwell in dharmas while practicing charity, it would be like a person who, seeing by the sunlight that illumines, sees all the various forms. Subhuti, if it should come into the world that there are good sons and good daughters who are able to receive, keep, read, and recite what is in this sermon, then they will become Tathagatas. Via the Buddha’s sagely wisdom which fully knows and fully sees these people, I can say that that all shall attain the complete accomplishment of the immeasurably boundless merit.

    15.

    “Subhuti, suppose there are good sons and good daughters who, in the morning, in numbers equaling that of the sand grains of the Ganges, give themselves in charity; who, in the afternoon, in numbers equaling that of the sand grains of the Ganges, give themselves in charity; who, in the evening, in numbers equaling that of the sand grains of the Ganges, give themselves in charity; thusly for immeasurable billions of kalpas gave themselves in charity. Suppose, again, that there is a person who hears this canonical sermon with a believing mind that is not contrary: his blessedness would overcome that of the others. How much more so copying, receiving, upholding, reading, and recited it in its entirety, and then giving comprehensive explanations of it to other people? Subhuti, essentially speaking, this sermon has a meaning which cannot be comprehended, and the boundless merit [of receiving, upholding, et al] cannot be measured. The Tathagata for the sake of setting forth the great vehicle speaks it; for the sake of setting forth the supreme vehicle speaks it. If there is a person who is able to receive, uphold, read, and recite this sermon and widely explain it to others, The Tathagata fully knows and fully sees that such people will all attain entirely the accomplishment of the merit which cannot be measured, cannot be express, has no bounds, and is inconcievable. Thusly such people therefore carry on the Tathagata’s annuttara-samyak-sambodhi. What is the reason? Subhuti, if there is satisfaction found in lesser dharmas, that is attachment to the view of a self, the view of a person, the view of sentient beings, and the view of a soul. Therefore, there could not be compliance with, receiving, upholding, reciting, or explaining for another what is in this sermon. Subhuti, wherever it resides in whatever place, if therein is this sermon, every one of the worlds, be they of gods, humans, or asuras, should give offerings for its support. It should be known that this place then is a pagoda. All should venerate it by circling it clockwise, scattering flowers and incense about its premises.”

    I could quote norse myths, grimm’s fairytales or an auto-trader guide and it would be equally insane. although, I must admit, at least the norse myths are really awesome. not boring in the least. but then, kneebow I’m assuming you’re an Agnostic when it comes to Thor… and surely your god is threatened by the possibity of Thor’s existence (which you can’t disprove!).

  9. on 19 Dec 2008 at 2:42 am 9.Kneebow said …

    Sorry to spoil your love in but um:

    We realize that there are many religions. Christ said to beware of false prophets. His disciples spoke of them too:

    “Dear friends do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This how you can recognize the spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard coming and is already in the world.”

    1 John 4:1-3

    John MacArthur says:

    “The final antichrist will not be something new, but will be the ultimate embodiment of all the antichrist spirits that have perverted truth and propagated satanic lies since the beginning. This is similar to 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8, where the man of lawlessness (Antichrist) is to be revealed, but the mystery of lawlessness is already at work.”

    You still haven’t “proven” to me how life originated. Where is your evidence? Who was there to witness it?

    If there is a Creator than Christianity is the most logical one, for it was written about since men where basically able to write, way before Homer wrote the Iliad and Odyssey.

    The Bible has way too much consistency (for instance the 600 prophesies in the OT that came to pass by a Man that actually came into being). The witnesses saw the prophesies where fulfilled and all agreed they did. John knew Mary, as they where both present at the crucifixion, and took her in after Jesus’ ascension. For John knew Mary then the Immaculate Conception must have been true. Mary, Christ, and John all gave testamonies about its truth. How could they all be real people and lie about all of this. How could they say these many miracles happened, all their testimonies are in total agreement, yet it is all false? They must have seen them and been convicted by God, and where inspired by Him to write their testimonies.

  10. on 19 Dec 2008 at 2:56 am 10.Kneebow said …

    What the hell is that crap! At least the Bible can be read by a child and understood.

    It sounds like that is a diolouge about ethics.

    What sighns and wonders did these people perform? None. Oh, because they weren’t from God! I wondered! Well Jesus healed a jillion people, affirmed things already written at least five hundred years before His comming, and all his dicisples affirmed Him and testafied about Him. What a load man. All things they wrote affirmed each other and it seems like it came from the same source, that is, God, as it was breathed by Him. What a fairy tale. Maybe you should write a new dictionary beause what you call a fairy tale is Truth. The Bible is as complex as creation and therefore must be a product of a creator.

    Fairtales. Yea, I believe in the force, right.

  11. on 19 Dec 2008 at 4:42 am 11.Hermes said …

    Kneebow: “What the hell is that crap! At least the Bible can be read by a child and understood.”

    “Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Makes perfect sense.”

    Source: Various.

  12. on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:03 am 12.Kneebow said …

    Hermes, what are you smoking?

  13. on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:08 am 13.Kneebow said …

    Hermes,why don’t you read the Book of Acts 17:16-34. It is when Paul speaks to Athenian pagans. You might learn something or be moved by God.

  14. on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:11 am 14.Hermes said …

    Kneebow: “Hermes, what are you smoking?”

    Are you offering? Because, I’ll have you know, I don’t do that kinda thing…though from what you’ve said I take it you have partaken of some premium ganja — likely laced with who-knows-what.

    Yet, outside of your stupor, we know the Greek stories make much more sense — and are true — as opposed to the Christian/Jewish/Muslim ones that seem to be just made up on the spot! Very confusing and immoral stuff, that Torah that Bible that Quran. Good thing it’s not real! For fiction, I recommend the His Dark Material trilogy. Seems to be well respected … outside the fans of your book that is.

  15. on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:13 am 15.Hermes said …

    Kneebow, I’m Hermes. Why would I be interested in fictional gods when I am one of the Pantheon and know the truth?

  16. on 19 Dec 2008 at 5:31 am 16.Kneebow said …

    Do a miracle then.

  17. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:27 am 17.loved one said …

    kneebow,

    Everybody here knows that Hermes is more than capable of turning out miracles. Don’t ask him to do the obvious or prove his existence. if you don’t believe in him, watch out – you’ll get what’s coming!

    you said:
    “The Bible has way too much consistency (for instance the 600 prophesies in the OT that came to pass by a Man that actually came into being). The witnesses saw the prophesies where fulfilled and all agreed they did. John knew Mary, as they where both present at the crucifixion, and took her in after Jesus’ ascension. For John knew Mary then the Immaculate Conception must have been true. Mary, Christ, and John all gave testamonies about its truth. How could they all be real people and lie about all of this. How could they say these many miracles happened, all their testimonies are in total agreement, yet it is all false? They must have seen them and been convicted by God, and where inspired by Him to write their testimonies. ”

    this just made me laugh aloud. really. I find it hilarious that you take this book as fact. these people didn’t exist. first, we don’t know that the majority of the characters in the bible were actual people, and secondly, how hard is it for made up characters to lie? quite easy!
    I could use the Harry Potter series to show how magic is real because look(!) in chapter 13 Balfour Blane turns a stump into a cow.
    It’s just a book. I know it’s more than that to you, but there’s nothing you will have me read in the bible that will convince me that it was written by your God. I’ve read the book. It’s got some good things to say and a whole lot of bad things to say and all in all it’s not that great, yet people take it way too seriously.
    there are no bible prophecies that have been realized outside of the text itself. people always try to link historic events (moon landing, JFK, 9/11) to bible prophecies, which cracks me up!

  18. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:34 am 18.Kneebow said …

    Yes, Peter imagined he saw Christ. Um.

  19. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:36 am 19.Kneebow said …

    They where real people. You are way too ignorant. Why am I even talking to you?

  20. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:42 am 20.loved one said …

    “At least the Bible can be read by a child and understood. ”

    then why do they make butchered versions of the bible for children?
    children don’t understand the bible! are you high!? hell, most adults can’t make heads or tails out of Genesis – and for good reason – it contradicts itself right off the bat. not to mention the majority of the language and the message are antiquated nonsense. why else would we have scholars who tell us how to make sense of the mess?

    luckily we have used reason and ethics rather than the bible for our guide. otherwise such atrocities as slavery and stoning would still be acceptable behavior.

    also:

    “What sighns and wonders did these people perform? None. Oh, because they weren’t from God!”

    ‘these people’? and you deny that you are a bigot?
    and if they weren’t from God then who created them?
    are you saying that it wasn’t a wonder that Buddha was enlightened and walked the earth healing and helping people? there are countless stories of miracles performed by Buddha.

    but guess what? there’s just about as much evidence for Buddha’s existence as there is for JC’s. so there’s no saying one is more ‘true’ than the other.

    If you look into the history of religions, you’ll find that most are based in ancient astrology. yep, even Christianity was stolen from Sun worshipers. (gasp!)

  21. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:53 am 21.loved one said …

    “They where real people. You are way too ignorant. Why am I even talking to you?”

    Wow, what Christlike words. did you get that from the bible?

    To be honest, I wonder why I waste my time talking to walls. after spending a couple weeks haunting this blog, I’m beginning to think that there’s a certain point of no return with true believers.

    It’s exactly like victims of scams who invest half of their life savings. often, even once they begin to realize they’re being taken, they keep giving their money away because they’re just too invested and fearful to admit they’ve been scammed. I’m not making this up. It really happens. and I can relate, because that’s the feeling I had when I left faith for reason. It didn’t happen overnight, and I was incredibly fearful of making the transition. gradually, I had friends turn away and family stop talking to me, simply because I didn’t believe the hype anymore. But once I was free, life began to make a whole lot more sense and that illusion of an ‘investment’ looks silly in hindsight.

  22. on 19 Dec 2008 at 8:59 am 22.loved one said …

    by the way,

    telling me:

    “They where real people. You are way too ignorant. Why am I even talking to you?”

    didn’t really convince me for some reason. I suppose if that is your idea of proof, it’s not hard to imagine why you were so easily duped by religion.

    So, for the last time, and I mean it: before you begin quoting your miraculous storybook, please provide concrete evidence that they were real people.

    no insults, strawmen, bible verses, unverified stories of miracles or your own ‘existential’ experience with god. I want the real thing and if you can’t deliver, don’t bother with any more bible verses because that book is dead to me.

  23. on 19 Dec 2008 at 9:16 am 23.Kneebow said …

    OK. I was influnced by my Catholic friend who was talking over my shoulder. He dosen’t understand the point in talking to ignorant people. That’s all I meant.

    Buddah was not enlightened and he did no miracles. Belief in him may be a phenomina, but not a miracle.

    Um.

  24. on 19 Dec 2008 at 10:16 am 24.Hermes said …

    Kneebow: “Do a miracle then.”

    That you lack faith in the true gods is well known among the Olympians. Why do you think the fates treat your societies so harshly already? Higher crime rates, lower education levels, more miscarriages and abortions, higher divorce rates, … if these are not tragedies, than you have not been reading your Greek history.

    So, the acts of the gods happen already. It is not my fault you lack the faith to understand how deserving you are.

  25. on 19 Dec 2008 at 10:22 am 25.Hermes said …

    Kneebow: “They where real people. You are way too ignorant. Why am I even talking to you?”

    Well, then talk to someone who was there. That’s your golden measure, is it not?

    I don’t remember any of them, nor do any of the other gods, and because you are an unbeliever … note that neither did the historians at the time. Well, except for that late comer vicious whack job Saul. There was no pleasure in that one, only suffering.

  26. on 19 Dec 2008 at 10:49 am 26.Hermes said …

    Kneebow: “Buddah was not enlightened and he did no miracles. Belief in him may be a phenomina, but not a miracle.”

    So, unless you get your magic show — it doesn’t matter?

    Even the true gods find their thoughts are the most powerful things they are capable of producing. Miracles are trivia and sideshows.

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