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Christianity Johnson on 11 Nov 2008 12:15 am

Keith Olbermann Speaks Out On Prop 8, and religion responds

Keith Olbermann states his case:

The religious community states its case:

59 Responses to “Keith Olbermann Speaks Out On Prop 8, and religion responds”

  1. on 11 Nov 2008 at 6:13 am 1.G said …

    To see the absurdity of the second video, replace “same sex” with “black”

  2. on 11 Nov 2008 at 11:59 am 2.Hermes said …

    Agreed. Our descendants will look on us like monstrous bigots.

  3. on 11 Nov 2008 at 12:09 pm 3.Red O'Brien said …

    You’re exactly right, Hermes. Forty or fifty years from now, members of the younger generation will say, “What in the hell was grandpa thinking? How could he have been so backward? Especially in the name of religion.”

  4. on 11 Nov 2008 at 1:07 pm 4.Hermes said …

    …if religious PR or actual reform keeps up. While there are positive things about religions, they are an unfortunate net negative and the current youth are figuring that out.

  5. on 11 Nov 2008 at 4:23 pm 5.cmotdibbler said …

    The stomach churning intolerance, hypocrisy and overt stupidity … it burns.

  6. on 11 Nov 2008 at 8:52 pm 6.SteveK said …

    I still don’t see the equal rights violation. The law that is on the books applies equally to everyone.

  7. on 11 Nov 2008 at 9:25 pm 7.Red O'Brien said …

    Steve, would you have said the same thing about some of the old marriage laws? Would you have said, “Yeah, a black man can’t marry a white woman, but he can still get married. To a black woman. The law that is on the books applies equally to everyone. Anyone can get married, as long as they marry someone within their own race.”

  8. on 11 Nov 2008 at 9:38 pm 8.SteveK said …

    “Steve, would you have said the same thing about some of the old marriage laws? Would you have said, “Yeah, a black man can’t marry a white woman, but he can still get married. To a black woman. The law that is on the books applies equally to everyone. Anyone can get married, as long as they marry someone within their own race.”

    I don’t know what the law said back then, but the short answer is ‘it depends’.

    If the law allowed interracial couples to have the same legal rights and live a life that was exactly like same race couples, then it wouldn’t bother me a bit if there was a distinct label for each couple.

    It doesn’t bother me that blacks get the government recognized title “african american” and I don’t. It doesn’t bother me that I can’t be recognized by the government as “retired”, or “veteran” while others can. Nobody is in a huff about these so-called equal rights violations.

    Now, if the law prevented them from living together, buying property together, etc. then I would have a problem with that.

  9. on 11 Nov 2008 at 9:55 pm 9.Red O'Brien said …

    Surely you can see the bigotry in that? I’m dumbfounded. Seriously, you are obviously an educated and intelligent person, but you think it would be okay for the government to prevent a black man from marrying a white woman?

  10. on 11 Nov 2008 at 9:57 pm 10.Red O'Brien said …

    Another thought: What you’re describing is “separate but equal.”

    You have no problem being associated with that type of thinking?

  11. on 11 Nov 2008 at 11:28 pm 11.SteveK said …

    Another thought: What you’re describing is “separate but equal.”

    No it isn’t. In that phrase, ‘separate’ means physically separate. I’m not advocating any kind of physical separation or physical limitation on same sex couples. There are no same sex homes, beaches, schools, churches, classrooms, drinking fountains, etc under Prop 8.

    They can do everything I can do, use the same facilities that I can use and otherwise enjoy life the same way I can.

  12. on 11 Nov 2008 at 11:56 pm 12.Red O'Brien said …

    I meant in a figurative sense.

    FYI, since you said you weren’t familiar with anti-miscegenation laws, nobody came up with any clever substitutes (i.e. “civil unions”) back then. Blacks flat-out couldn’t marry whites. Which could be justified using your original comment that the law that was on the books applied to everyone. I’m still curious as to whether you would’ve used the same logic back then to justify those laws.

    Also, just out of morbid curiosity, do your parents hold the same sorts of social and political views as you?

  13. on 12 Nov 2008 at 12:11 am 13.SteveK said …

    Surely you can see the bigotry in that? I’m dumbfounded.
    No, I can’t anymore than I can see the bigotry in recognizing a man as a man, and a woman as a woman. If that’s bigotry then so be it.

    Seriously, you are obviously an educated and intelligent person, but you think it would be okay for the government to prevent a black man from marrying a white woman?

    Read this slowly, six times if you must. Same sex couples are NOT being denied anything under Prop 8 *except* being recognized as married. You use the word ‘prevent’ as if they are being physically prevented from doing something that only married couples can do.

    Please tell me what married couples can do that same sex couples cannot. If you find something, and I admit that you just might, what is the required fix under the law? The required fix is to give them equal rights without physical separation. No separate but equal stuff, right?

    That fix doesn’t equate to getting equal labeling because if it did then blacks have the legal right to be recognized as whites and vice versa, males have the legal right to be recognized as females and vice versa. You don’t want equal labeling, you want equal rights without separation and I’m 100% in support of that.

  14. on 12 Nov 2008 at 12:36 am 14.SteveK said …

    “I meant in a figurative sense.”

    Unfortunately too many nonthinking people, *cough* Johnson *cough*, think Prop 8 results in a literal ‘separate but equal’ world like it did in the 1960′s. Why aren’t you out there correcting the misinformed ‘No on 8′ people that figurative is not literal?

  15. on 12 Nov 2008 at 12:59 am 15.Red O'Brien said …

    Steve, I’m starting to think you’re really pulling a prank, that you don’t really believe any of the stuff you say, and that you come here to play devil’s advocate purely to amuse yourself.

    You said this:
    Please tell me what married couples can do that same sex couples cannot.

    But you answered it yourself two sentences earlier:
    Same sex couples are NOT being denied anything under Prop 8 *except* being recognized as married.

  16. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:07 am 16.Hermes said …

    …thus the reason why I stopped talking to SteveK.

  17. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:12 am 17.Anonymous said …

    “Steve, I’m starting to think you’re really pulling a prank”

    No prank.

  18. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:24 am 18.Anonymous said …

    “…thus the reason why I stopped talking to SteveK.”

    Are you still holding a grudge? If you or Red could manage to give me a reason why being denied a government recognized label is considered a violation of rights then I might begin to understand your side of the argument. Are legal rights centered around labels or what you can actually do in life?

    If marriage is too hot a topic then let’s pick something else. Tell me why being denied the label ‘veteran’ by the government is, or is not, a violation of equal rights. If you have a good argument then I’ll admit that.

  19. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:30 am 19.SteveK said …

    Oops…the last two were from me.

  20. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:22 am 20.SteveK said …

    Red and Hermes,
    But you answered it yourself two sentences earlier:

    In the first I talked about what both can BE. In the second I talked about what both can DO. There is a difference so, no, I did not answer my own question.

    This whole discussion centers around the legal right to BE something according to the law and my question to you is this: is there such a right beyond BEING human? You may not recognize it, but this is the same line of questioning asked in Roe vs. Wade debates – does a fetus have the legal right to BE a human?

    This isn’t the first time you’ve heard these arguments, is it?

  21. on 12 Nov 2008 at 8:39 am 21.Hermes said …

    SteveK, I see that you address posts to me. I’m not reading them. Please, continue to waste your time.

  22. on 12 Nov 2008 at 10:30 am 22.Red O'Brien said …

    Steve, I have something to tell you that’s going to make our petty little differences seem trivial. I hesitate to even say it, because we live in a cynical world, and what I have to say is quite shocking. So I’ll just blurt it out. I’ve had a conversion to Christianity. I am no longer an atheist, and here’s why: God revealed Himself to me last night. Yeah, I know you’re skeptical, but it’s really true. Imagine how surprised I was. I mean, I’ve always heard that God works in mysterious ways, and I always thought that was a load of BS. But now I realize how accurate it is.

    Anyway, you’re probably wondering what He said to me, and that, too, will probably cause some disbelief on your part. But, well, I might as well dive right in. God told me that He’d been watching our conversation on this blog, and He decided that now was the time to step in and set a few things straight (no pun intended). What God told me was that He wanted me to spread the word that homosexuality was no longer a sin. That whole bit about it being an abomination? Out the window. “It’s time for a paradigm shift,” God said. (I found it strange that he sounded like some jerkoff in a marketing meeting, but whatever.)

    Of course, I wondered why God had changed His mind, and he said, “Population control. Normally, I keep the numbers down by way of disease, famine, floods, and other neat stuff, but it’s just not working anymore. You people are like rabbits down there. So that’s why I’m changing my policy.”

    I asked him what, specifically, He wanted me to do. Talk about an overwhelming project. I was intimidated by the idea of single-handedly facing down such a massive amount of bigotry and hate. “If SteveK is any indication,” I said, “these longtime Christians are way too close-minded to listen.”

    “Oh, they’ll listen,” God said, “Believe you me. I will make them listen. It’s for their own good. The benefits are great, including the fact that their grandchildren won’t think they’re morons.”

    So here I am, letting you know. I realize it’s a hard tale to swallow, and you’ll think I’m merely mocking you, but I assure you that’s not the case. In fact, I’m typing this with one hand, while my other hand is on the Bible, swearing that this is all true. You’ll have to trust me, and that’s a big leap to take. Then again, you understand what it means to be a man of faith.

  23. on 12 Nov 2008 at 1:52 pm 23.L33tminion said …

    “If Prop. 8 passes, it will make it harder for us to be bigots, and to teach our children to be bigots. And that’s a horrible thing.”

    If there’s one thing I hate more than a bigot, it’s the cheerful, smiling variety.

  24. on 12 Nov 2008 at 2:00 pm 24.SteveK said …

    Red,
    I never brought religion into this. Nice try.

  25. on 12 Nov 2008 at 2:04 pm 25.Hermes said …

    [Bows to miracle Red has shown ... starts looking for sites to learn ancient Hebrew. Chanting in Yiddish ensues.]

  26. on 12 Nov 2008 at 2:08 pm 26.Red O'Brien said …

    It’s not a “try,” whatever you mean by that. I’m merely passing along God’s word. Whether you choose to live by it or not is up to you.

    Hermes, are you joining me? Please say yes! We’ll have a picnic and discuss favorite verses.

  27. on 12 Nov 2008 at 2:21 pm 27.SteveK said …

    “SteveK, I see that you address posts to me. I’m not reading them. Please, continue to waste your time.”

    Real classy way to act, Hermes. Do what you want.

  28. on 12 Nov 2008 at 2:34 pm 28.Red O'Brien said …

    Steve, I apologize if I sounded brusque in my last post. As a former atheist, I fully understand how difficult it can be to determine if a Christian is being sincere or not. Our side (the Christians–yay!) has men like Hinn, Swaggart, and Bakker running around, causing damage to our good name. Did they ever truly believe? I think not!

    Having said that, I would remind you to be a little more courteous toward Hermes. Turn the other cheek, as the Bible instructs you to do. Love your enemy. I know he can be irritating, the way he always wants evidence of things, and how he bases his conclusions on logic, but you have to get past that.

    Peace.

  29. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:49 pm 29.SteveK said …

    If Elton John gets it, why not you?

    “The word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships.”

    *gasp*

  30. on 12 Nov 2008 at 3:56 pm 30.Red O'Brien said …

    If you’re talking to me, I don’t get it because God told me differently. Didn’t you see my earlier post where I mentioned that God spoke to me? Why are you questioning His word?

  31. on 12 Nov 2008 at 4:02 pm 31.SteveK said …

    Give me a legal reason, not a religious one.

  32. on 12 Nov 2008 at 4:17 pm 32.Red O'Brien said …

    I don’t need a legal one, I have God on my side. Now that I’ve found God, the opinions of my fellow man (not counting all those guys in the Bible) seem much less important. I’m sure you can relate to that.

  33. on 12 Nov 2008 at 4:48 pm 33.SteveK said …

    No, I can’t.

  34. on 12 Nov 2008 at 4:56 pm 34.Red O'Brien said …

    The truth is, Steve, I’m worried about your soul. I don’t want you to burn in hell, I truly don’t. Please help me keep you from burning in hell.

    I realize that it sounds strange that God whispered directly into my ear and told me the way things should be. Heck, just 24 hours ago, back when I was an atheist, I would’ve said that was nonsense. I mean, seriously, that sounds like the sort of thing that a deranged lunatic would believe. But you, as a Christian, know full well that God speaks to some men on a regular basis. How did I get chosen? Just lucky, I guess.

    Also, I sense the need to give you a refresher course on scripture. Remember acts 5:29? In case you don’t, it says, “Peter and the other apostles replied: ‘We must obey God rather than men!’”

    See, they understood that God’s word is more important than any law we create. You’d agree with that, right? So your previous request—for me to give you a legal reason rather than a legal one—is inapplicable.

    I love how this works. Being a Christian is very liberating!

  35. on 12 Nov 2008 at 4:58 pm 35.Red O'Brien said …

    Oops, typo! Meant to say:

    —for me to give you a legal reason rather than a religious one—

    Proves the old adage that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven!

  36. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:15 pm 36.SteveK said …

    Ultimately you could be correct. I’ve never heard the voice of God like you are claiming, but it’s certainly possible. If this is what God wants then please go ahead and march forward to carry out his instructions. In the meantime I will remain attentive to that small still voice of God, hoping to hear the same message you did. Until I hear it, I will remain on the same path. Cheers!

  37. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:27 pm 37.Red O'Brien said …

    Here’s the weird part. I know I’m pushing the bounds of belief, but God just spoke to me again. Seriously. That’s twice now. I am truly blessed. But I’m torn, because He delivered a very peculiar message. He said that you—he specifically singled you out, using the screen name SteveK—should never wear shoes again. Is that bizarre or what? I asked Him why, but he said that I shouldn’t question His word or He would strike me down with great fury. At that point, yeah, I’ll admit I was scared. Maybe I should’ve pushed and said, “Hey, wait, Steve can’t go through life without shoes! That’s ridiculous!” But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that God has a reason for everything. My mind is simply too small to comprehend His plan. I did ask why he didn’t speak to you directly, and he said it was because your faith wasn’t as strong as it should be. He said that there were times that you experienced doubt. And He said you could strengthen your faith by going without shoes—for the rest of your life—as he commanded.

    So, anyway, there you go. Good luck.

  38. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:41 pm 38.SteveK said …

    I asked Him why, but he said that I shouldn’t question His word or He would strike me down with great fury.

    Once again, I will continue on my path until I hear the same message you did. I’m keeping my shoes on for now. May God’s grace be with you – and me.

  39. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:56 pm 39.Hermes said …

    Red: “Hermes, are you joining me? Please say yes! We’ll have a picnic and discuss favorite verses.”

    Of course … who am I to deny a miracle! I’ll bring the fish balls.

  40. on 12 Nov 2008 at 5:57 pm 40.Hermes said …

    SteveK: “Real classy way to act, Hermes. Do what you want.”

    Just following your lead. Now, excuse me while I focus on a real believer’s experiences; Red.

  41. on 12 Nov 2008 at 6:04 pm 41.Red O'Brien said …

    Steve, I don’t blame you at all for keeping your shoes. Boy, can I identify with that! Especially the part about continuing on your path until you hear the same message! Back when I was an atheist, Christians persistently told me how to behave, which God to believe in, when and how to worship, etc. Some Christians even told me not to dance, not to have sex before marriage, not to drink, not to work on the Sabbath. Some also said I could handle snakes and drink poison without any ill effects. The list of do’s and do-not’s is really long. Sometimes I said those things sounded foolish, but they said it was God’s word. You know how I always responded?

    I will continue on my path until I hear the same message you did.

  42. on 12 Nov 2008 at 6:05 pm 42.Red O'Brien said …

    Oh, and how to vote. I forgot that part. They were always telling me how to vote.

  43. on 12 Nov 2008 at 6:08 pm 43.Red O'Brien said …

    But, really, I’ve forgotten so many of the things they told me. If I put my mind to it, I could probably come up with hundreds of posts to add on here. But, unlike a lot of Christians, I’ll shut up for half a second. I’m sure, though, that I’ll have reasons to post again in the near future.

  44. on 12 Nov 2008 at 6:38 pm 44.SteveK said …

    You know how I always responded?

    I will continue on my path until I hear the same message you did.

    That’s all anyone can ask for. God’s grace to you my friend.

  45. on 12 Nov 2008 at 6:44 pm 45.Red O'Brien said …

    Thanks, but I’m still concerned for you. How can I talk you out of your shoes? It’s God’s will that you go shoeless. I don’t mean to harp on it, but, well, that’s just one of the necessities of spreading His word, I guess. So, really, what will it take for you to comply? He specifically said you should no longer wear shoes. There was nothing unclear about it.

    Okay, wait a second. Something just occurred to me. I’m thinking maybe you don’t believe me. Is that the case?

  46. on 12 Nov 2008 at 7:22 pm 46.SteveK said …

    I’m walking around without my shoes and I have to say that I like it. God may be on to something. I’ll keep this divine revelation in mind.

  47. on 12 Nov 2008 at 7:30 pm 47.Red O'Brien said …

    Glad you’re enjoying it. Sorry you cleverly skirted my question, though.

  48. on 13 Nov 2008 at 7:43 am 48.nugget said …

    Red, since you have converted to Christianity, then i guess you will understand that being a “gay” man is a abomination to God, or so you claimed you did when you were an atheist? If God talked to you about SteveK being shoeless(i do not know why you magically pick this as your arguement) wouldn’t God speak to SteveK, instead of you? as He spoke to David, Solomon, Samson, Job, Joshua, Jeremiah, Lot, Noah, and many others. Since you think that marriage declares love and it’s the only way you share love, may i ask you what is you definition of love?

  49. on 13 Nov 2008 at 8:28 am 49.The Duka horn said …

    Red ‘o, Brien

    So you converted to Christianity in just 24 hours and God (instead of dealing with you on issues in your personal life as he usually does to new comers) already started speaking to you about somebody else’s life and the first thing he says is that he should live this life shoe less?

    Hmm,

    So tell me,

    Did you get converted for your own salvation or for the salvation of somebody else? no wonder you’re hearing strange voices. Oh, I get it,You got converted to the wrong god for the wrong reasons.And no, there are no rules were Christians are told do this and don’t do that.

    If you got converted with the right reasons in the first place, you would love God enough to know what he expects of you and you will live according to it out of your love for him and not because “other Christians” pressurized you to do so. Christianity is about a love relationship with God. Not religious rules. You should stop smoking because you love God (love), not because it is a duty or simply expected of you (rules and religious acts) …so sorry, you are in the wrong path.

  50. on 13 Nov 2008 at 10:48 am 50.Red O'Brien said …

    Nugget and Duka, I’ll be happy to answer all your questions shortly, but right now, the sun is rising, and I have to go walk my dog among God’s great creation. What a perfect day to be a Christian!

  51. on 13 Nov 2008 at 10:53 am 51.Red O'Brien said …

    Oh, and a shout out to Hermes. Seems your the only one who understands me, bro, and you’re not even a Christian. That’s weird!

  52. on 13 Nov 2008 at 11:39 am 52.The Duka horn said …

    Seems your the only one who understands me, bro, and you’re not even a Christian. That’s weird!

    Why am I not surprised? A wolf cannot reject his fellow wolf just because the other is wearing sheepskin.

  53. on 13 Nov 2008 at 12:30 pm 53.Red O'Brien said …

    Johnson, thank you for allowing us to conduct this conversation on your blog. Even though you are an atheist, you show some good Christian qualities! Good for you! Maybe, with luck, God will whisper in your ear, too, and your life will be worth living.

    Nugget and Duka, both of you seem to be skeptical about my newfound Christianity, and that saddens me greatly. Where would we be now if nobody had believed Moses? How come God can talk to so many men, but not me? It’s funny, you’re the ones who sound like atheists now. You’re skeptical that God could talk to me. You’re skeptical that He could give an atheist true wisdom in one blinding flash. Why? Are you concerned about my tone? About my choice of words? Do I seem insincere? If so, think about this: What if God is having me write this way merely as a way to test your faith? You KNOW that anything is possible, right? God doesn’t make things like this easy, you know that. He works in mysterious ways. I’m sure you’ve said that before yourself. When Jesus returns, are you going to doubt His word, too? How are you going to know if He is sincere? It makes me sad that your belief is so weak. If you want evidence, well, just like proving the existence of God Himself, I can’t give you any evidence. I know that’s ironic, but I don’t know what else to tell you.

    Now, before I answer your questions, let me clear something up for you: Even though I fully support gay rights, I happen to be heterosexual myself. That’s the way God made me. I’ve been happily married for many years. Prior to that, well, I was quite active as a bachelor. In fact, if you have a daughter, sister, or wife in the Texas area, there’s a real good chance I might’ve nailed her many years ago. I know that sounds crass, but I thought a little “macho” talk might make you feel better, since gays are so icky. Some people might say, “Well, there’s a good chance Nugget and Duka are themselves gay, since they seem to be so insecure about the issue.” I find that response to be sort of cliché…but it does make me wonder. If you are struggling with homosexual tendencies, believe me, I won’t judge you for it. If you’ve ever run your hand over some other man’s taut buttocks, don’t sweat it. Just ask for forgiveness! If you have titillating fantasies about Brad Pitt rather than Angelina Jolie, just read your Bible until you get your head back on straight. Take strength in the example set by Ted Haggard and so many other good Christians.

    Speaking of which, I don’t know if you read all my posts above, but one of the things God told me is that homosexuality is no longer an abomination (even though it’s still icky, of course). Didn’t you receive that newsflash? In fact, God flat-out approves the gay lifestyle now, because they help keep the population down, and the world population is obviously becoming a problem. Also, when some misguided (though well-meaning) Christian girl squirts out a baby at the age of fifteen, then decides she doesn’t want that baby, gays are often willing to step in and adopt it. See, I’m not sure if you know this, but God encourages that sort of giving and compassion for your fellow human being. Check the Bible. It’s in there.

    Okay, now, about “my conversion.” Is that the right word for it? I’m not sure, because I didn’t actually do anything. I didn’t set out to become a Christian. I was just sitting around, enjoying some Cheez Doodles and Mountain Dew, when God spoke to me. Is that a conversion? Did I do it the wrong way? Help me out, because I’m new to all this stuff. If it is a conversion, obviously I didn’t have any say in the matter. God just showed up and told me stuff.

    Why did God speak to me instead of directly to SteveK? Great question! Unfortunately, how would I know? How can I possibly fathom the ways of God? Why will He allow thousands of children to starve today? Why will people die of disease, in car crashes, and in wars? Same answer: I don’t know. But we, as Christians, know that God has a plan and everything happens for a reason. If God wants to speak to SteveK through me, who are you to question that? Are both of you really closet atheists? Shame on you for being so deceptive if you are!

    My definition of love? Simple: God’s Holy embrace.

    Duka, you say that you think I’m on the wrong path. I would hate for that to happen, so please show me the right path. There are all sorts of things I need to learn as a Christian, and I’m not afraid to admit that. For instance, when people say that my religion is nothing but recycled mythology from ancient Egypt, or they ask why my religion is right and all other religions are wrong, or they wonder how I can rationalize all the errors and contradictions in the Bible, how do I respond? Please help me with this! It’s quite troubling, but I’m sure there’s an answer. There always is!

    Peace.

  54. on 13 Nov 2008 at 1:09 pm 54.Hermes said …

    The Duka horn said: Why am I not surprised? A wolf cannot reject his fellow wolf just because the other is wearing sheepskin.”

    Does that work for @$$holes too?

  55. on 13 Nov 2008 at 1:11 pm 55.Hermes said …

    Red: “Oh, and a shout out to Hermes. Seems your the only one who understands me, bro, and you’re not even a Christian. That’s weird!”

    Well, I’m open to the one true revelation of this millennium. It would be silly not to be!

  56. on 13 Nov 2008 at 1:12 pm 56.Red O'Brien said …

    Amen, to that!

  57. on 14 Nov 2008 at 3:04 am 57.nugget said …

    “Okay, now, about “my conversion.” Is that the right word for it? I’m not sure, because I didn’t actually do anything.”

    That sounds a lil uncertain for a man of God? doesn’t it?.. i believe Moses and plenty of others was certain when God spoke to them..

    “If God wants to speak to SteveK through me, who are you to question that?”

    Who are you to question me for questioning you? Isn’t that the way that you prove God does not exist through circular reasoning?

    Maybe it was not even God who spoke to you, maybe it was the homosexual sitting right next to you? because you made it seem like if the voice was gentle..”I realize that it sounds strange that God whispered directly into my ear and told me the way things should be.” When God explains to Moses that He can not show His presence because Moses will die.

    “For instance, when people say that my religion is nothing but recycled mythology from ancient Egypt, or they ask why my religion is right and all other religions are wrong, or they wonder how I can rationalize all the errors and contradictions in the Bible, how do I respond? Please help me with this!”

    Why dont you search for it buddy? Science is the answer!!!(it has contradictions that can not be rationalized either). Hey!, don’t worry because nature took place millions of years ago and magically created an organism (that scientist are still puzzled on how) went to a process called mutation that made the species evolve into millions of other cool creatures and then nature selected those who will live and those will die..

  58. on 16 Nov 2008 at 8:53 am 58.good guess said …

    I reckon nugget just don’t appreciate a real life visit from the Big Man himself. and I thought he was a true believer… seems that even the staunchest christians have become atheists overnight (and vice versa)

  59. on 16 Nov 2008 at 11:55 am 59.Red O'Brien said …

    Yes, and I’m hoping Justin and I can get together and talk scripture. When I was an atheist, having a prolonged conversation with someone like Justin would’ve been my idea of Hell on earth—ironic, huh?—but now I’m anxious to sit down and have a good one-on-one. Unless he’s really Nugget in disguise, which is possible, considering Justin’s writing skills. Nugget might try to stone me to death.

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