Feed on Posts or Comments 05 December 2016

Christianity Thomas on 05 Jan 2013 12:05 am

The insanity of religion – “God is faithful”

Here is an article that claims God will never let you down:

God won’t let you down

So remember that regardless to what difficult and seemingly impossible situations are pressing in on you, just know that God won’t let you down because He is faithful.

Imagine the level of insanity it takes to make a statement like this. Every year, 10 million kids die of things like starvation. More than half a million Americans died of heart disease last year, and another half million of cancer. 100,000 people died in accidents. And then there are the mass murders at places like Sandy Hook school. Was God “faithful” in any of these deaths? Clearly not!

Whatever the cause of your crisis be it unemployment, marital problems, sickness, etc. although things around you and even your emotions change, God doesn’t because He is faithful….

So why are you worried? You cast doubt on God’s very nature when doubting the outcome after placing the situation in His hands.

God is true to Himself and His righteous nature. His word will produce the results of His promises due to His faithfulness to His word and you can expect the results of His promises when applying the word to your life. His promises are sure and trustworthy.

So think about this. You are sick, you pray, you go to the doctor. First, why do you need to see a doctor if God is faithful? Second, last year about 200,000 people who did see a doctor died in the U.S. because of medical errors. What wonderful, faithful God would allow that?

The only way to say “god is faithful” is to completely ignore reality. Where does this level of insanity come from?

1,076 Responses to “The insanity of religion – “God is faithful””

  1. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:05 am 1.DPK said …

    on 24 Nov 2013 at 11:46 pm 600.the messenger said …
    587.DPK, can you disprove what I said?

    To what specifically are you referring? You have said a lot of things? What do you think needs disproving?

    Do atheists have a set moral law like christians and jews?

    The only thing atheists have in common is disbelief in supernatural gods. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, in so much as no theist here has ever produced this absolute moral law you keep babbling about, your question makes no sense what so ever. You yourself, over the past few days, have demonstrated irrefutably there is nothing even remotely absolute absolute your absolute moral code. Even you and A can’t even agree on what it says, and you two are talking about the same set of “rules.”

    Is being a true atheist determined by morals, like christians and jews?

    No, being a “true atheist” is determined by whether you believe in supernatural gods.

    Why is that so hard to comprehend?

    I don’t know why that is so hard for you to comprehend. Perhaps it is because you cannot fathom anyone who is not as gullible as you are? I really don’t know.

    Can you provide any evidence?

    You want be to provide “evidence” that people who don’t believe in supernatural gods are atheistic? That’s kind of like asking for evidence that blue cars are blue.

    Your babbling must stop.

    Typical of many people who suffer from your particular delusion, you don’t want to let anyone else say anything that threatens your little imaginary world where you get to live forever in the magical kingdom paved in gold. Too bad. You don’t get to decide who is allowed to speak and who is not, although we know you would like nothing better.

  2. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:34 am 2.the messenger said …

    618.Abby, are you crazy?

    The Catholic bible does speak of purgatory, but not by name, but by description.

    Wisdom 3:1-9
    Good News Translation (GNT)
    The Destiny of the Righteous

    3 But righteous people are protected by God and will never suffer torment. 2 It is a foolish mistake to think that righteous people die and that their death is a terrible evil. 3 They leave us, but it is not a disaster. In fact, the righteous are at peace. 4 It might appear that they have suffered punishment, but they have the confident hope of immortality. 5-6 Their sufferings were minor compared with the blessings they will receive. God has tested them, like gold in a furnace, and found them worthy to be with him. He has accepted them, just as he accepts the sacrifices which his worshipers burn on the altar.










    This verse clearly describes a punishment that will occur to people who are good in order for them to pay off the rest of their sins(in other words, become purified) after death.

  3. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:47 am 3.the messenger said …

    619.Abby, I never said that anyone who is not a christian or a jew is a pagan. A pagan is a person that worships a false GOD.

    The native Americans were not very moral. They robbed and killed many innocent setlers, and they treated natives from other tribes with violence. People who trespassed on their “sacred land” would be killed. They scalped and stripped their enemies.

    619.Abby, the settlers who pillaged and murdered natives, were not true christians, they were corrupt protestants that many times ignored the “you shall not murder” law in the bible. They were hardly christians. They were not true christians.

  4. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:56 am 4.DPK said …

    Wow, we’ve seen messy go for the stretch before, but to get the whole concept of purgatory from that is really pushing it.
    Btw, here is another take on purgatory from a Christian website. I guess they are reading a different infallible word of god than you are, or are they not “true Christians” either?
    http://carm(dot)org/bible-about-purgatory

  5. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:56 am 5.the messenger said …

    621.DPK, I already explained that the word “eternal”, is only used to stress how long the punishment is. It last a long time but it eventually wears away, like a “permanent” marker.

    Their are countless verses about GOD forgiving all sins and allowing people into heaven.

  6. on 25 Nov 2013 at 1:25 am 6.Abby said …

    DPK… I think you may have something there..that is only if god was real ? I come from a background of people who did do evil things….my parents and my ancestors also..those I have never met or even heard about ! Seems my whole life..even when I went to church was cursed….no matter how good or faithful I tried to be I watched those who grew up in Christian homes with money and so many opportunities do so much better than me… and always so blessed all the time !! I had to listen to stories of all these great things happening to them all the time… I suffered all the time without and bad happening to me all the time ! Maybe you are right on with what you say….maybe this Christian gods is punishing me and cursing me because of my ancestors sins ! Maybe he predestined me to suffer or something ! I am sure he hates people like me who come from bad families..no matter how much you try….the ones who grow up in Christian homes are favored over those like me…! So salvation is not for everyone and Jesus did not die for those like me ! We are the cursed and unwanted ! I feel like a misfit/ unwanted toy from Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer ! Yikes !

  7. on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:04 am 7.According to the “hor” said …

    “But, Mr. Hor, you just ignore what he said and pretend you didn’t even hear it.”

    No, I heard it. There questions have been answered here many times over. They just don’t like the answers. How many is enough Bob? DPK and Mousey both ask questions while never answering any. So let me set you straight. When you have been here listening to the same silliness I have, getting no questions answered, you come back and judge me then. Agreed?

    The question I asked him above has been asked no less than 10 times on other threads. No, he has not answered it because he realizes no answer will work! lol!!

    I have come to expect no civility from him or any other atheist here which is why it is no more than a game. You taking this seriously will get you the same treatment Messenger gets Good Luck! But my way is quite fun!

    Watch!

    Abby, Dip, Agnus & Alexi,

    All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

  8. on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:09 am 8.Abby said …

    Messenger…you f’n son a an f’n prick !
    You have the nerve to say :.Abby, I never said that anyone who is not a christian or a jew is a pagan. A pagan is a person that worships a false GOD.
    The native Americans were not very moral. They robbed and killed many innocent setlers, and they treated natives from other tribes with violence. People who trespassed on their “sacred land” would be killed. They scalped and stripped their enemies.
    619.Abby, the settlers who pillaged and murdered natives, were not true christians, they were corrupt protestants that many times ignored the “you shall not murder” law in the bible. They were hardly christians. They were not true christians.

    I am so infuriated ! You are so delusional and uneducated regarding the Native Americans ! You need to read more true history you ass ! How dare you !
    Maybe you should read true history of how the army fooled the Natives to feel safe…then when they felt safe surprise attacked them, shot, slaughtered and killed unarmed women, children and elderly ! Cut off the native genitals and waved them around like trophies ! Even wore them on their heads proudly…cut out babies from mother wombs, shot children who were running for safety ! Natives were not perfect…..but they were not like the settlers who were greedy to the max ! All this death for gold, and profit ! Imagine that ! if they are false Christians that did this..I would say then there is no real true one out there even today ! if whites came and cheated you, stole from you, forced you from your homes, treated like you were less then animal,killed your families and your way of life and wanted you all dead….you would fight back as the Native Americans had to do to survive ! Who wouldn’t fight to stay alive ! Settlers did more murder than any native American ! Natives killed to stay alive and to fight back ! Settlers killed just to get tired of Natives to steal all the land for themselves and for profit ! Every time they moved the native Americans and they settled in…if the settlers discovered there was God there…. the wanted to kill to take that from the Natives also ! read about the Trail, of tears, Wounded Knee, the Sand Creek massacre and so much more ! Those poor children in the residential schools ! What you wrote is false and very sick ! Maybe you out to read “Bury my heart at wounded knee” ! Open your eyes and your heart to truth ! For you say those things about the Natives…you show that you are blind and disillusioned and need to read real history ! Or are you a racist at heart ? People who want to know the true are open to learn about all sides before speaking.. I have studies both sides for years…!
    I would kill anyone who tried to destroy my way of life and do harm to my culture and ancestors and family ! Who were trying to commit genocide against me for being Native ! Remember these sick Christians who thought they were doing God’s work as they were superior… have a evil saying ” the only good Indian is a dead Indian ” They slaughtered the buffalo to kill off the Indians because they knew that was their livelihood and food…they tried to kill the Indian with residential schools and so much more ! Christians have proven to be inhuman !Christians are NOT very moral ! They are greedy, they murder, they lie, steal, cheat, deceive, they destroy the earth with greed and so much more !
    native do worship the Creator..but in a more honest pure way..they respect ALL creation and honor God with dance as that is their culture and tradition. it is beautiful in my eyes because it is from the heart and pure worship of the Creator !! Christians worship others gods also…SELF is one god they worship, money is one of their many gods they seem to worship, Catholics worship idols, statues, the virgin Mary and the Pope !They believe in bleeding statues for crying out loud ! Every single Christian in this entire works breaks gods laws every single day ! That includes you !Moses and his gang slaughtered women, children, elderly and animals..all innocent ! For what ? because they believed differently ! Hey did you know that there are many, many Christian men who are addicted to porn and hide it.. but yet go to church and act all pious ! It is a major problem these days ! Seems like Christians are not so moral either !!!! Christian women dress provocatively and are vain and superficial…just look at the majority of them ! Come on ass wipe !..to say Natives were not very moral and to not mention how Christians are even more immoral is really quite a joke wouldn’t you think !I bet you masturbate when no one around ????
    Sorry for being blunt… but seriously I bet you do !Most Christians do…secretly of course !

  9. on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:11 am 9.According to the “hor” said …

    “Do atheists have a set moral law like christians and jews?”

    They are called “laws”.

    So Butterfly, the laws in S Korea to kill Christians with a Bible are OK? What about killing woman with a head uncovered in Iran? Killing gays in Pakistan? They are the laws so they are moral?

    Odd you find these actions moral? What a sicko!

  10. on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:14 am 10.Abby said …

    my spelling above is bad when I am pissed off and write too fast…hope you can read it !

  11. on 25 Nov 2013 at 2:30 am 11.the hor said …

    I luv Abbys lady-like use of the English language. What is it with atheist and their obsessive use of vulgar language? Lack of a vocabulary? Lack of peace? Hatred of others not like them?

  12. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:09 am 12.the messenger said …

    608.Abby, obviously you have never heard of the Mountain Meadows massacre, where 100-140 people were murdered by native americans. Most of the people that died in the massacre were families from Arkansas on their way to settle in California.

    The crow creek massacre led to the death of 486 innocent villagers. Their bodies were found with their limbs missing. And their bodies were mutilated. Many of the victoms suffered from tongue removal, and decapitation. 90 percent of them had been found scalped(men, women and children).

    The native americans were savage and murderous, they are not innocent.

    YOU AND YOUR LIES, ABBY, DISGUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:14 am 13.the messenger said …

    636.Abby, to disprove all of your other stupid claims, people who steal, murder, lie, act prideful and vainly are breaking the laws of GOD. Christians try to overcome that evil. People who do not are not true christians.

  14. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:29 am 14.the messenger said …

    629.DPK, what is un-absolute about the moral codes located in the gospels and the torah?

    Before you respond, the so called “no killing” law is not valid proof of un-absoluteness due to the fact that the verse actually states You shall not murder.

    On the “no lying” law issue, I provided many ways to be honest and still accomplish the goal of saving the jews in your “natzi” scenario.

    Lastly, killing of humans is only allowed in self defense, and saving an innocent person’s life.

    P.S. I use the GOOD NEWS translation and the new revised standard version Catholic addition bibles.

  15. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:34 am 15.the messenger said …

    636.Abby, are you on drugs?

    The man who said “the only good indian is a dead indian” was general William Sherman. He was not a christian church official, and he only said that statement above to intimidate the indians.

  16. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:39 am 16.the messenger said …

    636.Abby, christians did not try to “kill” indians with residential schools, they were trying to help the indians fit in better with society.

    P.S., you are suffering from a bad case of dwtsi.

    D-dim

    W-witted

    T-total

    S-stupid

    I-idiot

  17. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:45 am 17.the messenger said …

    Abby, Catholics do not worship idols, mary, or the pope. We have respect for mary and the pope, but we do not worship them.

  18. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:50 am 18.the messenger said …

    636.Abby, we do not worship money either. You are so misguided.

    We use money to help the poor, sick, and injured people of the world. And to build churches.

  19. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:52 am 19.the messenger said …

    Abby, moses did not murder anyone.

  20. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:54 am 20.the messenger said …

    Abby, christians do not claim to be perfect, we simply try our hardest to not sin.

    Christians sin sometimes, but we always regret sinning and we try to not sin again.

  21. on 25 Nov 2013 at 4:35 am 21.the messenger said …

    622.DPK, The good news translation an new revised standard version catholic addition bibles are catholic, and they both say “you will not murder”or “you shall not murder”.

    The kjv verse “thou shall not kill”, means the same thing, but you must observe the text evidence to understand that. The kjv shows many situations in which killing is allowed, such as self defense, saving another person’s life, and getting food (plants and animals and fish). Due to the text evidence, it is clear that the word “kill” within the kjv means murder.

    Lastly, purgatory is a place of purging of sins, which is referenced indirectly in many bible verses.

  22. on 25 Nov 2013 at 5:05 am 22.the messenger said …

    622.DPK, you only posted half of the idol commandment.

    Here is the full commandment.
    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    You can make a statute or a symbol, but you cannot worship it. That is the meaning of the verse.

    The “jealous” verse is no longer in power due to the establishment of the new covenant where GOD has “forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”.

  23. on 25 Nov 2013 at 5:35 am 23.Abby said …

    How Ironic… Messenger ! I am not a believer in your God anymore.. I am undecided if he even exists or just is a goof and just doesn’t give a crap for anyone in this world ? But even I try not to do bad things and feel bad when I make that mistake ! Atheists are human being also…just because they do not believe doesn’t mean they are bad people deserving of hell or that they don’t do good, unselfish things in this world for others !! Christians do not have to claim to be perfect…it is in the attitude yous have ! I was just bashed by a Christian woman on another site just because of my life of hurt… she just don’t understand me or anyone who has lived through a life of hurt , pain and abandonment and filled with anger
    ( a normal human emotion)….just because she could not convince me to believe and be suddenly happy and praising God…she told me I would never have anything and God would take away even the man I love from me ad a way to punish me ! So on top of my already traumatized life and depression your God is going to make me suffer even more because I am too hurt to believe in him any longer ! If I talked to any non Christian counselor about my pain and my life and how I feel about the God thing they would never judge me treat me cruel like that ! Christians do not have to say they think they are perfect…it is in their attitude towards others not like them !

  24. on 25 Nov 2013 at 5:45 am 24.Abby said …

    the messenger said …
    Abby, moses did not murder anyone.

    YOU ARE RIGHT ! Moses got others to do it for him ! Coward !!!

  25. on 25 Nov 2013 at 6:02 am 25.Abby said …

    .the messenger said …
    Abby, Catholics do not worship idols, mary, or the pope. We have respect for mary and the pope, but we do not worship them.

    ALL over the internet are pictures of the pope and other Catholics bowing to statues of Mary and praying to them….!!!!!! yes you not only make these graven images of things in heaven, earth etc… you do bow down to them and even pray to them as if they can hear you !!!!! Mary was a sinner like anyone else and she needed a savior also so why are yous praying to her as if she is a god or has any of the powers of god to answer prayers ???? Yous made her not only an idol and a graven image…but you even BOW down to her and pray to her which belongs to God alone !!!! Shame ! God is a jealous God remember…he will not tolerate that at all !!!
    Respecting the Pope and Mary does not mean obeying them over God and bowing to them or praying to them !! While we are at it….how can any decent person respect the Pope ? He makes himself an image and an idol…go to the site called ” words of the beast” there is a whole history of statement made by the popes throughout history that clearly says they are EVIL !

    God’s commandment #Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

    5 Thou” shalt not bow down thyself to them”, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

  26. on 25 Nov 2013 at 6:10 am 26.Abby said …

    Messenger you statement above the the “Jealous” part of the commandment has been removed is BS ! No human can erase any part of the commandments ! Sorry but God is still jealous ! Is this another part of the commandments that the Pope felt to change himself ?
    The Pope is playing God on earth and trying to take God’s throne from him ! Creepy…. but that sounds like what Lucifer is trying to do also! Di you think the Pope and Lucifer are the very same people ? Could they be related ? I would say they are cahoots with each other !

  27. on 25 Nov 2013 at 6:30 am 27.Abby said …

    You are fucking as idiot Messenger and I would personally like to kick your retard ass ! Killing the Indian in residential schools means..killing the Indian in them !!.. And everything that makes them who they are as a people !!!! So you are a dumb fucking Catholic dimwit ! Making them fit into society ? Isn’t that going against free will ? So raping children up the ass and telling them they are Indian trash is the way to make them fit into society ??? I would surely love to see you bent over and getting up the ass by one of the Catholic Priests and told you are trash !!
    The catholic church had to apologize for that they did !! Even though it was the catholic church priest alone who did the raping and abuses..the pope blamed all Christians for it… ! What a dick head… I want the pope on a rope !!
    The more you talk messenger the more you prove you are NOT a true Christian ! You already exposed your true self to everyone on here to be a fake !
    One day you will get everything you deserve for the sick things you do and say about innocent people who have been abused ! I want to be there to watch it and participate !!!! If any one is on drugs or fucking stupid…it is clearly you ! Society was so fucked up why would they want to force anyone to be a part of it ? Let alone innocent children ! By the way the priests not only raped young children over and over..they starved them, made slave out of them for profit and beat them ! Is that getting them ready for society ? You make me so sick to my stomach..you are so evil and wicked ! You belong in Hell ! You can go there with the Pope !!!!!!

  28. on 25 Nov 2013 at 6:41 am 28.Abby said …

    Messenger..don’t you ever fucking minimize what was done to the native Americans …Ever !!!!!!!! You are a sick, evil bastard !!!! And don’t you ever fucking minimize what was done to those innocent native children either ! You will surely see hell fire for
    it !!! It was the very church you are a part of that has done all this evil and one day you will all pay for it in hell !!!!! If I end up in hell myself.. I will fucking drag your ass down there with me and torture you there for what you say about Natives !!!!! I have very close decent friends, and some relatives that are Native American !!!! The abusers never really understand how sick their abuses are to others….because they are corrupt in their own souls and evil ! Your father is the devil and you are his messenger !!!!!

  29. on 25 Nov 2013 at 6:59 am 29.Angus and Alexis said …

    Messenger you ignorant whelp, many christians killed the native indians on purpose. They thought that god had allowed them to take and own the land.

    This happened, deal with it.

  30. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:07 am 30.the messenger said …

    651.Abby, atheists have no set moral code that applies to all of them, they are disorganized like a hot mess.

    Atheists are bound by no moral code, and therefore do not live a truly moral life.

  31. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:08 am 31.Abby said …

    Messenger ( of the devil)..If you asshole Christians want to do the things you did to the native Americans do not complain when they do it back to you ! I am sure it was in response to stuff done to them first !!!! If you do not like my lady like English..who cares ! I will speak how I want to !
    You do not control me and society has taught me to talk like this when pissed off at things that are jot right or are cruel ! After having to be a lady for so long taking crap all my life.. I rather like the freedom of expression now !!!So… should I be polite when expressing my anger about what was done to the Native Americans ? I thought you Catholics were used to filthy talk..like molesting of children etc… ???
    I suppose if a woman is being raped and had to kill the rapist it would be her fault and she would be the blame ????? I suppose if that rapist got away with the rape and later she found him and retaliated and did the same torture to him…that would make her the bad one ??? He would be so innocent and everyone would feel so sorry for him ? if the Natives retaliated back after what was done to them..who is the blame ?… I am sorry for those people who were innocent in this whole mess and were killed on both sides! BUT the white man should have thought of that before they did what they started ! So in reality it was the ones who started the whole nightmare that are to blame for innocent being killed….on both sides ! That was not the fault of the Native Americans ! War is war and it is ugly so don’t start one is what the Christian whites should have understood !

  32. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:10 am 32.the messenger said …

    657.Angus and Alexis, true christians only killed native americans in self defense, or in the defense of someone else’s life.

    murderous people are not true christians.

  33. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:14 am 33.the messenger said …

    659.Abby, the settlers that were murdered by the native americans were innocent.

    The natives americans killed CHILDREN!!

    The people who molested those children were not true catholics. They betrayed GOD.

  34. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:16 am 34.the messenger said …

    656.Abby, I did not minimize the awful things that happened to them. I simply stated the fact that the native americans were not all that innocent.

    Both sides suffered.

    The people who murdered the innocent native americans were not true christians.

  35. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:26 am 35.the messenger said …

    659.Abby, no one knows who shed the first blood, I was not their. I wish I could have prevented it.

    I know the hardships they went threw, I am simply saying that some of them were murderous and earned punishment.

    Revenge is a bad thing. Whoever takes revenge on a person is just as bad as the person who first inflicted the harm and started the conflict.

  36. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:29 am 36.the messenger said …

    656.Abby, the christian churches did not order the attacks on native americans. The old west U.S. polotitions ordered those attacks.

    Read your history.

  37. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:34 am 37.the messenger said …

    655.Abby, I did not say “making them fit into society”, I said “they were trying to help the indians fit in better with society.”.
    Giving people a choice is not against free will.

    Stop twisting my words.

  38. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:40 am 38.the messenger said …

    654.Abby, I did not say that it was “removed”, i said that the jealousy verse is “no longer in power”. STOP TWISTING MY WORDS.

    In the old covenant, GOD was stricter and remembered their sins and punished every sin hard. When the new covenant was established, GOD said that he forgives our sins and forgets our sins, therefore indicating that the “jealousy” verse is no longer IN POWER.

  39. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:42 am 39.the messenger said …

    655.Abby, they chose to leave their culture. THEY CHOSE.

  40. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:48 am 40.the messenger said …

    653.Abby, we do not worship pictures or statues. We have them because they remind us of holy people and the great things they did on earth.

    We do not worship mary or the pope. We admire them and respect them, but we do not worship them. We do not follow their orders over GOD’s, they get their orders from GOD just like everyone else. Their job is to teach the teachings on GOD, not their personal teachings.

  41. on 25 Nov 2013 at 7:51 am 41.the messenger said …

    Abby, that is all one commandment.

    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

    You can make a statute or a symbol, but you cannot worship it. That is the meaning of the verse.

  42. on 25 Nov 2013 at 1:14 pm 42.Angus and Alexis said …

    What absolute garble.

    “they were not real christians”

    Well guess what, there are many who would say that you are not a real christian.

    I wonder why…

  43. on 25 Nov 2013 at 3:54 pm 43.DPK said …

    LOL… Messy is such a doofus.

    Abby, we forgot to tell you that when his delusions are threatened, he likes to change the meaning of words and such. And of course, he is the authority on what god ACTUALLY means when he says something Messy doesn’t like too much.

    “Eternal” does not mean forever, just a long time.

    When the bible tells you to stone someone “to death”, that’s just a metaphor.

    When god said “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” That means you can MAKE the image as long as you don’t bow down in front of it. Kneeling, presumably, is ok.

    Messy, if that’s what your god meant, he would have just said, “Do not worship any graven images.” The fact that he thought enough to say “Do not MAKE any graven images.” means he doesn’t want you making them, despite your desperate attempt to rationalize it.

    Oh, and why would the supreme creator of the universe refer to the “waters below the earth” and the “creatures that dwell there”? He made the earth, wouldn’t he have known that it was a sphere, and there is in fact no “waters” below it, only space, and certainly no creatures living there?
    That sounds way more like something an ignorant tribesman would write, rater than the supreme creator of the universe.
    You are always good for a morning laugh though… thanks.

  44. on 25 Nov 2013 at 8:59 pm 44.the messenger said …

    670.Angus and Alexis, because they are corrupted.

  45. on 25 Nov 2013 at 9:26 pm 45.the messenger said …

    671.DPK, I did not change the meaning of the word “eternal”, I simply explained that it is descriptive word that is used to stress how long hell punishment lasts. I provided text evidence to support that claim.

    Here is text evidence to support the “stoning” claim. In John 7:53-8:11 Jesus saved a young woman from being literally stoned, and he revealed that only people who have never sinned have the right to literally stone a person to death. All humans have sinned(except Jesus), therefore no one except GOD(aka, Jesus) is allowed to stone a person to death. If humans are not allowed to stone each other, the verses about stoning must be metaphorical. This is a logical conclusion.

    671.DPK, the verses about idols, is all one commandment. We can make statues, but we cannot worship them. Why else would there be so many chrsitian statues in the world?

    GOD did not write the bible, he inspired it but did not write it. Prophets wrote it.

    The earth that they were referring to was land, and the waters below was the sea. The sea is below the part of the earth that we live on, so that verse is correct. The book of genesis never denied the earth being a sphere, as you said it did. The verse that says “the creatures below it” and “creatures that dwell there”, it is referring to the sea creatures, and that they live in the water that is below the part of the earth that we live on.

  46. on 25 Nov 2013 at 9:36 pm 46.DPK said …

    See what I mean?

    hahahaha.

  47. on 25 Nov 2013 at 11:36 pm 47.the hor said …

    “The book of genesis never denied the earth being a sphere, as you said it did.”

    Flat actually started with scientist and science was funded by the church. (So much for the church being against science lol!!)

    Isaiah is quite clear that the earth is round. The Bible is quite clear the universe has a beginning even though science claimed it did not until the last 100 years of so……lol!!!

    Dippy did not answer my question again. Contact Rich Dawkins, he might bail you out….lol!!!

  48. on 26 Nov 2013 at 12:50 am 48.DPK said …

    Isaiah quite clearly refers yo the earth as a circle. It isn’t a circle, it’s a sphere. The bible also frequently refers to the “ends of” and the “corners of” the earth.
    Nowhere does it even hint that the world is a sphere. Nice try.
    I suppose you agree with messy that “eternal” does not mean ” for eternity too?

    Your title so ASS is rightly deserved.

  49. on 26 Nov 2013 at 1:07 am 49.the messenger said …

    648.DPK, In those verses, it is used in a descriptive way, not a literal way.

    I am not changing the definition.

    P.S. A sphere is a circular shape.

  50. on 26 Nov 2013 at 1:55 am 50.the hor said …

    Lol!!!! Its so cute when atheists to play theologian! Theses who claim no God know so much Bible!

    Cute! For kicks and giggles lets pretend there is no God.

    All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

    Agnus and Alexi claimed laws. That means they think killing woman, Christians, Jews is OK! How horrible! What say you Dip?

  51. on 26 Nov 2013 at 3:17 am 51.DPK said …

    I already answered your question Hor. The fact that you are to stupid to compendium it is not my problem.
    Do you agree with messy that eternal does not mean forever and that a circle is a sphere?
    You guys are just too funny.

  52. on 26 Nov 2013 at 3:18 am 52.DPK said …

    Comprehend, not compendium… Damn auto correct!

  53. on 26 Nov 2013 at 4:02 am 53.According to the “hor” said …

    “I already answered your question Hor. The fact that you are to stupid to compendium it is not my problem.”

    Good, tell me the post number so we can all clear this up.

    The Hebrew word used in Isaiah can be circle or sphere. Listen this time and you atheists need to come up with better arguments rather than the same lame, tired debunked ones time and time again.

    God doesn’t actually sit on the earth either silly. The language is metaphorical in nature. But seeing you only read websites about the Bible you couldn’t know?

    But why the obsession with the Bible? Lets assume its not true. How have you disproved God or Jesus? Hmmmm?

    Now, don’t forget, need that post number where you answered the question. :)

    Prediction: Dippy does not and did not answer the question..

    Dippy, do you agree with Agnus, murdering and rape are OK because laws say it is OK???

  54. on 26 Nov 2013 at 8:45 am 54.Angus and Alexis said …

    Hor, please amuse me.

    State ONE modern civilized country that states murder and rape is legal.

  55. on 26 Nov 2013 at 12:47 pm 55.the hor said …

    ” ONE modern civilized country that states murder and rape is legal”

    Oh!!!!!, so only certain laws in certain countries are moral. So which ones? And what criteria will you be using?

    In the US it is legal to kill a baby that survives abortion. Is that moral? Are they uncivilized?

  56. on 26 Nov 2013 at 4:29 pm 56.DPK said …

    hor, I answered you already. You are just too dim to realize it, or are just playing you usual fingers in your ears game. Since you have already admitted to Booby that you do not take any discussion here seriously and only come here in an attempt to amuse yourself, why don’t you amuse yourself further and read back through the posts and see if you can recognize it. If you can’t be bothered to “wade though” it, then find some other way to amuse yourself beside wasting our time.
    If I had a week to kill, I could go back and compile a list of the HUNDREDS of direct, to the point questions that have been asked of you, dozens of times, that you have refused to answer. But, I have better things to do.

    Your concept of “absolute morality” has been dismantled and dismissed by everyone but the idiot messenger, and even you two do not agree on what it actually instructs. But then again, he likes to redefine words to suit his meaning, so you can see how he is not too hard to persuade, as long as there is some woo woo involved.

    Now go make some graven images of creatures that live in the waters under the circle of the earth. Don’t bump you head on the firmaments that are holding it up while you’re looking…. LOL.

  57. on 26 Nov 2013 at 6:42 pm 57.the hor said …

    “hor, I answered you already.”

    Translation: I dodged your question which is why I can’t provide a post number.

    OK

    Agnus has told us laws determine what is moral. IF this is true then politicians, dictators and tyrants THEN determine what is moral. Yes? That means laws in Russia that persecute gays are moral. Laws in S Korea that kill Christians for having a Bible are OK. And the many Middle East countries who will kill atheists, women and Christians, well, they must be moral too.

    There ya go, the atheist morality on display. Nothing is immoral, it is all just relative! Lol!!!

  58. on 26 Nov 2013 at 7:52 pm 58.DPK said …

    “658.the hor said …

    “hor, I answered you already.”

    Translation: I dodged your question which is why I can’t provide a post number.”

    Actual translation:
    “Your response to me made me realize what a complete and total idiot I am by declaring that there is an absolute, unchangeable, god given morality that instructs me on what to do so I don’t ever have to think about it and make a judgement. So, rather than acknowledge it, I am simply going to pretend that you never replied, so that maybe some poor idiot who is just now joining the discussion will be fooled into thinking it is you, and not me, who is being intellectually dishonest.”

    “Plus, as I have said before, I treat everything here as a joke and have absolutely no intention of actually debating honestly, or “wading through” any evidence presented. That would be beneath me and my superior morality.”

    “…laws in Russia that persecute gays are moral.”

    Well, before we analyze that, suppose you tell us exactly what your bible instructs you to do to gays? Then we can take a look at the basis for these supposed laws of which you speak.

    “Laws in S Korea that kill Christians for having a Bible are OK.” You keep talking about laws in South Korea… I think maybe you need another geography lesson… like the time you ridiculed me for not knowing that Bangkok was a large city in India that used to be called Mumbai. How on earth did you ever get your Astrophysict’s degree when you don’t even know North from South there, Sparky? Perhaps you wandered too close to the edge of the earth and got disoriented.

    If you are actually talking about North Korea, I don’t think that qualifies as a “modern, civilized country” LOL.

  59. on 26 Nov 2013 at 8:38 pm 59.the hor said …

    “If you are actually talking about North Korea, I don’t think that qualifies as a “modern, civilized”

    Alright now! We are getting somewhere. We can’t get Dippy answer a question he has declared N Korea ( my bad on the typo)is not modern and civilized. Having been there I can attest it is quite modern. They are controlled by atheists too!

    But dippy claims they are not civilized? Dippy, what guidelines do we use to declare a nation is or is not civilized? The atheists running the nation believe they are very civilized?

    Prediction: still no answer, no post number and attempts to change subject.

  60. on 26 Nov 2013 at 9:02 pm 60.DPK said …

    “Having been there I can attest it is quite modern. They are controlled by atheists too!”

    And you made it out alive? Will miracles never cease? I guess they are quite as hell bent on killing christians as you would have us believe then LOL.

    “But dippy claims they are not civilized? Dippy, what guidelines do we use to declare a nation is or is not civilized?”

    I dunno, maybe the fact that they threaten to launch nuclear weapons at other countries? Maybe the same criteria you used to declare it a “modern” country. Tell us Ass, modern compared to what? Japan, South Korea, Canada? Surely you must have a frame of reference other than the bible! Oh, that’s it! Since the bible is your only frame of reference, then I guess it is indeed a modern, civilized country… at least they aren’t stoning people for working on Sunday.. or are they? I’ve never been, so I don’t know.

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?

  61. on 26 Nov 2013 at 10:07 pm 61.the hor said …

    “Tell us Ass, modern compared to what? Japan, South Korea, Canada?”

    Well, yes, they are a very high tech nation and are considered a world power as compared to Uganda.

    But alas! Bow quickly you fulfill my prediction! A change of subject,……a no answer in order to NOT tell us what makes them uncivilized and why. Nukes? the laws of a nation with nukes are immoral? But why are nukes immoral?

    Ah yes, Dippy is in a pickle and he desperately is looking for an escape. Time to call the ethicist…..lol•

  62. on 26 Nov 2013 at 11:44 pm 62.Angus and Alexis said …

    South Korea is not civilised, you know why?

    Civilised: a stage of social development considered to be more advanced.

    Korea is not socially advanced.

  63. on 27 Nov 2013 at 12:26 am 63.DPK said …

    So, your assemeny of “modern” is based in reference to the use of technology compared to Uganda? Is that how you judge? Or does architecture count too? How about compared to Japan, or perhaps the UAE? There must be an absolute scale of “modern” with specific critera since you pronounced them to be “modern”. What is it?

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?

    Why don’t you ever answer a direct question? Did you find my answer to your question about where morality arises from in societies? Explain it back to us so we can tell if you grasp the concept, or are just being willfully ignorant again.

  64. on 27 Nov 2013 at 2:40 am 64.According to the “hor” said …

    “Civilised: a stage of social development considered to be more advanced. Korea is not socially advanced”

    They are not socially advanced? Imagine! and they are atheist. So Agnus, you have concluded Korea is NOT civilized so their laws are immoral? Is that correct?

    So…….how do we determined who is and is not civilized? We need to know this so we can determine what are morals should be. How socially developed must they be? Is this correct? Give some examples so we can correctly determine what is and is not moral.

    This is interesting.

    Dippy needs the help too. He desperately wnats to change the subject. lol!!

  65. on 27 Nov 2013 at 8:42 am 65.Angus and Alexis said …

    Being an atheist country does not make it civilized.

    As i have said, civilized is defined as being socially advanced.

    Dictatorship is not advanced.

    Democracy is advanced for example.

    However, depending on the country, laws may be different, death penalty for example.

  66. on 27 Nov 2013 at 12:47 pm 66.the hor said …

    “, depending on the country, laws may be different, death penalty for example”

    Of Of course laws are different place to place. So how do we know which laws are from the civilized and which laws are from the uncivilized? You first stated laws dictate what is moral but now we have this extra condition?????

  67. on 27 Nov 2013 at 1:37 pm 67.Dippy said …

    Hor,
    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?

    This is the third time I’ve asked you this. Why are you dodging the question?

  68. on 27 Nov 2013 at 1:49 pm 68.chorizo said …

    Angus and Alexis are you saying a nation must be civilized in order to be moral?

    You just called about 80% or Africa and India immoral. You two are about as arrogant as they come.

  69. on 27 Nov 2013 at 3:52 pm 69.the messenger said …

    We do not discriminate against gay people.

    The law states that no one(gay and straight people) is allowed to have sex with the same gender.

    In other words, the law applies to gay and straight people. it is not discrimination due to the fact that it applies to gay and straight people.

    Sex causes lust, therefore to prevent lust, sex must only be used for reproduction. People of the same gender cannot reproduce, therefore same gender sex is not allowed because it’s only purpose would be for lust.

  70. on 27 Nov 2013 at 4:01 pm 70.Dippy said …

    Way to completely miss the point there Messy.
    You should change your handle to “clueless”.

    Chorizo, what A&A and I are both saying is that morality can only be viewed in the framework of the circumstance around it, not in an absolute sense.

    If you discovered an isolated tribe in Africa who performed ritual animal sacrifices because they believed their gods required it in order to provide them with food and shelter, would you deem that immoral?

    But, if you found a group of teenagers in Cincinnati who were performing ritual animal sacrifices because they thought it would get them booze and drugs, you’d probably agree that was immoral.

    Now answer the question… what’s the difference?

  71. on 27 Nov 2013 at 5:42 pm 71.the hor said …

    Chorizo,

    As you can see, Agnus claim laws determine our morals. Not all laws, just laws from civilized countries (lol!. Dippy just claims whatever he thinks is moral then that’s is what we should all do. Both views are very arrogant. Lol!!

  72. on 27 Nov 2013 at 5:55 pm 72.Dippy said …

    Hor,
    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?

    This is the third time I’ve asked you this. Why are you dodging the question?

  73. on 27 Nov 2013 at 5:57 pm 73.Dippy said …

    Correction, this is now the FOURTH time you have been asked this directly.

  74. on 27 Nov 2013 at 6:38 pm 74.chorizo said …

    I think anyone who only uses their opinion to claim poor tribal people in isolated areas of the world are immoral are no more than arrogant jerks who need to be taken down a notch.

    I don’t know where theses arrogant know-it-alls get their license from to criticize from but it carries no weight.

  75. on 27 Nov 2013 at 6:48 pm 75.Dippy said …

    674.chorizo said …

    I think anyone who only uses their opinion to claim poor tribal people in isolated areas of the world are immoral are no more than arrogant jerks who need to be taken down a notch.”

    Ok, so now we are getting somewhere! So you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.

    Seems you and I are in agreement Mr. Chorizo. Thanks.

  76. on 27 Nov 2013 at 7:03 pm 76.Dippy said …

    How about it Hor?
    Do you agree with your fellow theist that:
    “I think anyone who only uses their opinion to claim poor tribal people in isolated areas of the world are immoral are no more than arrogant jerks who need to be taken down a notch.” ?

    Because that would be, eh-hem, you!

    LOL!!! This is priceless.

  77. on 27 Nov 2013 at 7:29 pm 77.the hor said …

    “no more than arrogant jerks who need to be taken down a notch.”

    They are more than that, they are clueless. They hate the so-called uncivilized people.

    But take it a step further. A 16 yr old lies to a parent. For an atheist, its not immoral. They broke no laws in a civilized nation.

    To be fair, only Agnes and Dippy believe such nonsense.

    lol!!!

  78. on 27 Nov 2013 at 8:20 pm 78.Dippy said …

    Oh Hor… you are really confused now, aren’t you?

  79. on 27 Nov 2013 at 8:40 pm 79.the messenger said …

    670.Dippy, regardless of the desired outcome, it is still morally wrong to worship a false GOD.

    Praying to a false GOD will not help anyone.

    Only Jesus can help, because he is the only real GOD.

  80. on 27 Nov 2013 at 11:41 pm 80.Angus and Alexis said …

    “A 16 yr old lies to a parent. For an atheist, its not immoral. They broke no laws in a civilized nation.”

    Lying is immoral, what nonsense say otherwise?
    Laws dictate what is moral, yes.
    But other inputs also dictate it.
    Area, race, religion, current status of country, etc.

  81. on 28 Nov 2013 at 2:32 am 81.the hor said …

    “Lying is immoral”

    Funny, Dippy says it is OK.

    Then you come back with…..

    “But other inputs also dictate it”

    Suppose this “Area, race, religion, current status of country” dictates lying, killing woman for not covering their head or killing someone with a Bible is moral? So for you that would be moral huh?

    You just help support that anything is moral. Getting deeper and deeper Agnus.

  82. on 28 Nov 2013 at 4:22 am 82.Dippy said …

    Hor, hate to point this out to you, but I thought it perhaps slipped your attention:
    I noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the FIFTH time I’ve asked you this. Why are you dodging the question?

    Now Chorizo says that animal sacrifices to a god that a primitive tribe happens to believe in is not immoral, and anyone who says it is, is arrogant and needs to be “taken down”. You apparently agree with him, but messy does not. Hmmm, aren’t you all referencing the same absolute moral code? Tell us, is ritual animal sacrifices moral according to your code, or not? In your world, does absolute mean something completely different? Like messy, who says eternal does not mean forever.

  83. on 28 Nov 2013 at 6:55 am 83.Angus and Alexis said …

    “Funny, Dippy says it is OK.”

    You never stated what level of lying.

    In the example of “nazi wants the jews” you can lie, its a good reason to, why let murderers kill?

    But if it is something like “person wants to know who stole the icecream cone” you should tell the truth, not lie, there is no reason to lie.

  84. on 28 Nov 2013 at 1:49 pm 84.the hor said …

    “You never stated what level of lying.”

    Oh, so morality is not laws it is now based upon whatever the individual believes? Why does your definition keep changing?

    So when N Korea kills Christians with a Bible, they believe they are doing what is best for society. So according to you that is OK? They did have a good reason.

    When Stalin killed, he only killed to insure hs kept power. HE felt it was vital he kept power to keep his very young nation, the USSR together. MUST of been OK, because had a what he felt was a good reason.

    So is that how in works now? Any act is OK if you have a “good” reason.

    Happy Thanksgiving

  85. on 28 Nov 2013 at 1:50 pm 85.Dippy said …

    “Funny, Dippy says it is OK.”
    You never stated what level of lying.

    For someone who says that lying is always immoral, Hor seems to have little problem doing it here, repeatedly.
    Hor show me where I said it is “ok to lie”. Since you can’t that makes you a liar. It is sad that you must continually construct straw man arguments in order to argue against.
    What I said was that there are circumstances where it would be more moral to lie than it would be to tell the truth. You have not provided even one shread of evidence or one remotely plausible explanation as to why this is incorrect.

    Your absolute morality claim is now in pieces, and your theist buddies are in disagreement over what it actually calls for. Maybe if you actually presented this absolute moral code that you claim to have, we could examine it to see what it actually says.

  86. on 28 Nov 2013 at 3:31 pm 86.Dippy said …

    Hor:
    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the SIXTH time I’ve asked you this. Why are you dodging the question???

  87. on 28 Nov 2013 at 4:04 pm 87.alex said …

    y’all see how this works? the dim hor not only speaks/believes in his imaginary god, he makes up posts in an obvious deragatory manner. dippy for DPK? how original.

    you happy, angus? go ahead and criticize my posts. i’ve said before, asses like hor are not to be tolerated. please, i’m not talking about cool xtians, muslims, hindus, etc. twits like hor love to talk and make up obvious crap in a lame attempt to placate their imaginary god. is that rich? made up shit for their made up shit god?

    forget the camaro, toe, oceans swimming, etc. don’t even try that shit that atheists have nothing to live for. it’s exactly the opposite. xtian motherfuckers are the one that have nothing. with heaven in the waiting, what is the point?

    atheists know exactly that the score is. it’s sudden death and we know it. messenger, hor and the rest of you motherfuckers, y’all can fuck yourselves.

    dippy? what a stupid moniker. are we supposed to think it’s DPK? you on the other hand is so fucking transparent, it’s laughable. monikers like martin, hor, astro, etc sound familiar? for the uninitiated, these are the names that hor has comically used in the past. the way he’s been busted is hilarious. who’s stupid enough to leave the bogus name while replying to himself?

    what do i bring to the table? contempt for the morons. same thing i handed to the bible thumper this morning.

    do i represent all atheists? hell no! i represent independent thinking. happy thanksgiving bitch.

  88. on 28 Nov 2013 at 4:53 pm 88.Dippy said …

    Um Alex, it is me DPK. Why else would I be hammering Hor for refusing to answer questions?
    I decided to just adopt the name he gave me, dippy, basically to demonstrate how childish he is with his schoolyard name calling. He can call me what he wants, but it doesn’t change the fact that he refuses to answer the questions, and that his argument for an absolute morality handed down by a supreme being doesn’t stand up to the light of day.

    How about it Hor? Should I ask a 7th time?

  89. on 28 Nov 2013 at 6:25 pm 89.the hor said …

    “Um Alex, it is me DPK. Why else would I ”

    lol!!!!!!!! So classic! Alex he follows by leads….lol!!!! Love it!

    ” I said was that there are circumstances where it would be more moral to lie”

    When?
    How do you decide?
    Can everyone make this call & be moral?
    Was Stalin’s lies and murderers moral?
    Who decides when it is immoral?
    Does more moral mean nothing is immoral?

    Will we get more attempts to get off topic?

    ( sigh!), prediction: yes….

  90. on 28 Nov 2013 at 7:04 pm 90.According to the “hor” said …

    “what do i bring to the table?”

    Alex love you babe. I do! What do you bring to the table? Well….nothing……but I like to bring the down and out to my table!

    Happy Thanksgiving Alex. Hope you are not alone with your scary thoughts!

  91. on 28 Nov 2013 at 7:33 pm 91.alex said …

    “What do you bring to the table? Well….nothing……”

    unlike you, the purveyor of lies, hate, and fantasies?

    the champion of creationism in schools? the subscriber of the movement against gay marriages? the big mouth opponent of freedom of religions.

    the only thing i’m guilty of, is my skepticism. maybe dippy is DPK or not, but it doesn’t matter. what matters is i don’t have to take your bullshit.

    and, what do you bring? camaros, toes, hitler, obama, etc. it’s worse than nothing. feeble attempts from the equally feeble mind.

    ciao, motherfucker.

  92. on 28 Nov 2013 at 10:16 pm 92.Dippy said …

    Hor:
    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.
    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the SEVENTH time I’ve asked you this. Why are you dodging the question???

  93. on 28 Nov 2013 at 11:12 pm 93.Marino said …

    the hit,

    I’ll be glad to answer the questions. I am agnostic but I admit I use the morality taught by Jesus as my guide. Just because a law is passed does not make an action moral. Many things not covered by a law are immoral. I guess since I was raised under Judeo-Christian values I have held to them all my life.

  94. on 28 Nov 2013 at 11:28 pm 94.alex said …

    “I am agnostic but I admit I use the morality taught by Jesus as my guide.”

    the guide is bogus. killing somebody can be justified with or without the guide. it’s the pretense and righteousness that justifies the bullshit guide.

    if it was a real guide, hor would pull it out of his ass and apply it. but he won’t because he knows that every situation is subjective.

    no, hor. atheist don’t get to do what they want, you dumbshit. atheists use their brain depending on what the situation warrants. of course, you wouldn’t know that, because it requires a brain. you don’t need one don’t you? just pull out your bible checklist, yes?

    let me see, the crackhead addict is attacking me with a knife, should i kill him? for the appropriate response, consult your bible guide..

  95. on 29 Nov 2013 at 12:57 am 95.the messenger said …

    711.Angus and Alexis, your stupidity grows.

    I provided ways to hide the jews and still keep the natzis away from them without lying.

  96. on 29 Nov 2013 at 12:59 am 96.the messenger said …

    722.alex, there is no “no killing law” in the bible.

    The law states thou shall not “murder”.

    Are you drunk or high? Seems like it.

  97. on 29 Nov 2013 at 1:04 am 97.the messenger said …

    720.Dippy, regardless of the desired outcome, it is always immoral to worship or sacrifice to a pagan GOD.

    We do not discriminate against gay people.
    The law states that no one(gay or straight) is allowed to have sex with the same gender.
    In other words, the law applies to gay and straight people. it is not discrimination due to the fact that it applies to gay and straight people.
    Sex causes lust, therefore to prevent lust, sex must only be used for reproduction. People of the same gender cannot reproduce, therefore same gender sex is not allowed because it’s only purpose would be for lust.

  98. on 29 Nov 2013 at 1:04 am 98.the messenger said …

    720.Dippy, regardless of the desired outcome, it is always immoral to worship or sacrifice to a pagan GOD.

    We do not discriminate against gay people.

    The law states that no one(gay or straight) is allowed to have sex with the same gender.
    In other words, the law applies to gay and straight people. it is not discrimination due to the fact that it applies to gay and straight people.
    Sex causes lust, therefore to prevent lust, sex must only be used for reproduction. People of the same gender cannot reproduce, therefore same gender sex is not allowed because it’s only purpose would be for lust.
    ,,,,,

  99. on 29 Nov 2013 at 1:14 am 99.alex said …

    “The law states thou shall not “murder”.”\

    you off your holy meds again? abraham, go kill your son. or is it, go murder your son?

    you cherry picking motherfucker. anything you don’t like in the bible, you deem allegorical, euphemistic, out of context or whatever apolegetic bullshit you’ll come up at the moment.

    go stone some adulterers you cowardly bitch. at least the amish stands true to their conviction unlike you, you fucking pussy.

  100. on 29 Nov 2013 at 1:21 am 100.alex said …

    “Sex causes lust, therefore to prevent lust, sex must only be used for reproduction.”

    back on your soap box again, eh, you two faced hypocrite. preach all you want, but i bet, you lust, pornify and do other shits even though you righteously proclaim against it.

    but of course, your imaginary god allows you do it with a clean conscience. as you wait for your porn to load, you can spew your nonsense on this board, smug with your fucked up righteous mind, comfortable in the knowledge that redemption is at hand, errr, the other hand.

  101. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:06 am 101.the messenger said …

    699.alex, are you on drugs?

    GOD was testing Abraham’s loyalty, also he prevented Abraham from killing/murdering his son.

    I was not cherry picking, I was referring to exodus 20:13(a complete law within the torah).

    You were attempting to discuss an entirely different verse than the one that I was referring to.

    I did not change this verse, or any verse.

    I only deem a verse as allegorical, euphemistic, or metaphorical if I have text evidence to support it.

  102. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:17 am 102.the messenger said …

    728.alex, you sad, confused man.

    Instead of arguing against my statement, you make feeble attempts to avoid it by changing the subject.

    I do not lust. If I did I would be a hypocrite, and thus breaking one of GOD’s laws.

    Tell me, can you prove that I am a hypocrite, or is that just another one of your Christianophobic/anti semitic stereotypes?

    I am waiting.

  103. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:21 am 103.the messenger said …

    728.alex, GOD does want anyone to lust, and also does not want anyone to have a clear conscience while they do it.

    No one is allowed to lust. That is one of GOD’s laws, and it applies to everyone.

  104. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:29 am 104.alex said …

    “Tell me, can you prove that I am a hypocrite, or is that just another one of your Christianophobic/anti semitic stereotypes?”

    “We do not discriminate against gay people.”

    “Sex causes lust, therefore to prevent lust, sex must only be used for reproduction.”

    your words, you fuckhead. more hyperbole?

    anti semitic? how about anti dipshit motherfuckers like you?

  105. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:44 am 105.the messenger said …

    The king James bible says thou shall not kill, but because of the context, it means the word “murder”.

    The king james 20:13 says that “thou shall not kill”, but exodus 21:13 says “And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee.”

    I see the bible as one complete text, therefore I see that the law means killing is only allowed if it is not pre planned and if it is for a good reason, such as self defense or defense of someone’s life. In any other situation, killing is not allowed.

    The catholic church understood this and decided that the word “murder” helped people better understand the full meaning of the law. That is why many Catholic and Jewish bibles include the word “murder” in exodus 20:13 instead of the word “kill”.

  106. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:51 am 106.alex said …

    i see the bible paying off rape, but you know better don’t you? more allegorical? nope. if you tried paying off the rape like the bible says, what do you think would happen?

  107. on 29 Nov 2013 at 4:02 am 107.alex said …

    messenger, since you’re the self proclaimed perfect, non-sinning catholic motherfucker, why don’t you publish your real name so that we can all cower in fear when we finally acknowledge your sainthood?

    afraid aren’t you? even though you have the protection of the almighty, you still not so sure, aren’t you, you fake bitch.

  108. on 29 Nov 2013 at 4:47 am 108.the messenger said …

    706.alex, I would have no money, and be married to a lot of women who would be angry at me for along time.

    The bible says that if a person rapes another person, he must pay for his evil actions, and must marry the woman that he raped and he must take good care of her.

    This law is suppose to punish rapists, and help the young woman that was raped.

    This is a good law.

  109. on 29 Nov 2013 at 5:35 am 109.alex said …

    708.the messenger said …
    I would have no money, and be married to a lot of women who would be angry at me for along time.
    The bible says that if a person rapes another person, he must pay for his evil actions, and must marry the woman that he raped and he must take good care of her.
    This law is suppose to punish rapists, and help the young woman that was raped.
    This is a good law.

    hor, you dumbfuck. you understand, now? of course you don’t. more camaros?

  110. on 29 Nov 2013 at 2:30 pm 110.Dippy said …

    Messy writes;
    “The bible says that if a person rapes another person, he must pay for his evil actions, and must marry the woman that he raped and he must take good care of her.
    This is a good law.”

    Another shining example of Christian insanity.

    How about you Hor? Do you agree with Messy that women should be forced to marry their rapists? How does that fit within your absolute moral code?

  111. on 29 Nov 2013 at 2:44 pm 111.According to the “hor” said …

    “I’ll be glad to answer the questions. I am agnostic but I admit I use the morality taught by Jesus as my guide.”

    Thank you for the honesty Marino. Most atheists do use the Judeo-Christian moral authority. They just hate Christians, Jews and God so much they refuse to acknowledge the fact.

    How do you like the Agnus-Dippy moral code? I’m still trying to figure out what it is. They refuse to answer…………. lol!!!

  112. on 29 Nov 2013 at 3:02 pm 112.Dippy said …

    Hor, why must you lie all the time? Isn’t that against your moral code?
    No one here EVER said that the Judeo-Christian principals are not a good guide for morality. We said they are not ABSOLUTE…. a fact that you have demonstrated over and over again.
    A child knows you should be kind to others, you shouldn’t take what isn’t yours, you should be honest and act with integrity. These are concepts that evolve from living in a society with others. They are not handed down by some magical god and they were certainly not a brand new idea that no one ever heard of until Jesus showed up and revealed them…. LOL indeed.

    Oh, by the way:

    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.
    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the EIGHTH time I’ve asked you this. Why are you refusing to answer these question?

  113. on 29 Nov 2013 at 4:04 pm 113.alex said …

    “Most atheists do use the Judeo-Christian moral authority.”

    wrong, idiot. atheists use their analytical brain of which you are lacking, as you have demonstrated many times over.

    “They just hate Christians, Jews and God so much..”

    hate a god that don’t exist? you that desperate? i hate your god as much as i hate the yeti and the idiot yeti followers/hunters?

    “How do you like the Agnus-Dippy moral code?”

    making up more shit to support your shit god? get it thru your fecal brain, your god’s moral code is fictional and your inability to produce it confirms it. now you turn the shit around and ask for the atheist version?

    o-fer again, as usual. now bring back the camaro.

  114. on 29 Nov 2013 at 5:16 pm 114.Dippy said …

    So, let’s review some of the conclusions we have so far with regard to the absolute code of morality provided in the bible:

    Messy says in the runaway train scenario, one must decide if the single person or the crowd of people are “better” and save the one who is morally superior. So, according to messy, the life of one true Christian holds more value than the combined lives of 100 non-believer. All things being equal, majority rules. Hor says nothing, so we can only assume he agrees.
    In the Nazi’s hunting Jews scenario, one must devise some way to discourage the Nazis from discovering the Jews hiding without lying. It is not ok to tell a lie to genocidal maniacs on a human hunt. Presumably then, lying seems to be even worse than actually killing someone, because that is sometimes acceptable, but lying never is. Hor concurs.
    It is also never ok to lie to a burglar, rapist, or murderer in order to protect a loved one. You must either rely on your weapons cache or alarm system for protection. You may not lie to them. Hor agrees.
    So lying seems to be always forbidden, unless it is lying about what some filthy atheist says in order to convince someone that you are right and they are wrong. Then its ok.
    Primitive people performing animal sacrifices to a Pagan god are immoral, not because ritual animal sacrifices are immoral, but because worshiping a pagan god is. Pagans who worship false gods and have never heard of Jesus or Yahweh are immoral. Hor disagrees, and feels that anyone who judges more primitive cultures is arrogant and needs to be taken down a peg.
    Messy says that rapists and their victims should be forced to marry, and that this is a “good law”. Hor is silent. Gay people in a loving relationship however, should never be allowed to marry. This is because marriage is a sacred union and two adults in a loving relationship who cannot conceive children should not be allowed to marry. It is not clear what happens if a man rapes another man, because it would seem to indicate that marriage is required in that situation.
    Hor is once again silent, although has spoken out in the past against gay marriage. His absolute position on rapists marry their victims is unclear.
    Hor indicates that killing christians with bibles is clearly immoral, but killing people who work on Sunday, are disrespectful to their parents, who plant their fields with more than one crop, and various others should be killed.
    Hor abhors some supposed “laws” in Russia that prescribes persecution of gays, but has no comment on the persecution of gays prescribed by Yahweh in the bible.
    Lets see, did I miss anything? I’m sure I did, but there is just so much.

  115. on 29 Nov 2013 at 7:44 pm 115.Marino said …

    “Thank you for the honesty Marino. Most atheists do use the Judeo-Christian moral authority”

    No problem. Most do adopt a code or become a barbarian. Being Agnostic does not require me to hate all religion. Religion has bad apples but the good that comes from it imho far out weighs the bad. If we throw out everything with bad apples, nothing would be left.

  116. on 29 Nov 2013 at 9:10 pm 116.alex said …

    “Most do adopt a code or become a barbarian.”

    a code or the jesus morality, which one is it? the ancient chinese, greeks, romans, scandinavians, native americans are barbarians?

    the so called code is shit. no matter how you spin it, it doesn’t exist. along with the imaginary god, it a fictional sidebar.

    read hor’s posts and see for yourself. i will now write a wwgha search that will list all postings by individuals.

    remember folks, hor, martin, astrophysic, shithead, etc are all the same person.

  117. on 30 Nov 2013 at 12:08 am 117.the messenger said …

    710.Dippy, that is a good law.

    If a man rapes a woman, he must marry her and pay her. This law is suppose to punish the man for raping the woman, and to help the woman with financial situations.

    By marrying the woman, he is bound to her and he must spend the rest of his life serving the woman he raped, and trying to atone for his actions towards her.

    Tell me, what is bad about this law?

  118. on 30 Nov 2013 at 12:28 am 118.the messenger said …

    745.alex, the moral code(aka, the law of GOD) is located in the torah and in the new testament.

  119. on 30 Nov 2013 at 12:46 am 119.the messenger said …

    741.Dippy, how high are you?

    Children so not know the difference between good or bad. I have seen children take stuff that does not belong to them, and they did not stop until someone told them that it was bad.

  120. on 30 Nov 2013 at 12:49 am 120.alex said …

    “the moral code(aka, the law of GOD) is located in the torah and in the new testament.”

    break it down, then, you dumb, self appointed motherfucker. a checklist would be perfect.

    after you’re done, let’s hand it out to all the real xtians in here and we’ll give them a test. while taking the test, they’ll use your checklist and use it as a guide.

    if it’s the word of god and is absolute, all you motherfuckers should have the same exact answers, yes?

    get the fuck outta here, you dumb bitch. what is wrong with raping and woman and paying her off and marrying her? you stupid, stupid fuck.

    go ahead, paste the checklist here.

  121. on 30 Nov 2013 at 12:53 am 121.alex said …

    messenger, do you live in a first world country? i’m thinking you’re a bedouin, sitting on a camel, parked in a mcdonald’s somewhere in tripoli?

  122. on 30 Nov 2013 at 1:14 am 122.the hor said …

    “Religion has bad apples but the good that comes from it imho far out weighs the bad.”

    Absolutely Marino. Guys like Alex and Dippy would have you believe all the worlds problems are by Christians. They ignore all the good they do throughout the world.

    I apologize for Alex. He just attacks and curses at everyone here. I do pity the little fella.

  123. on 30 Nov 2013 at 1:31 am 123.the messenger said …

    743.Dippy, in many of my past comments I provided many ways to protect people from burglars, natzis, and rapist without lying.

    There is never a good reason to lie.

  124. on 30 Nov 2013 at 1:36 am 124.the messenger said …

    749.alex, if they are all educated Catholics, then all of our answers would be the same.

  125. on 30 Nov 2013 at 2:23 am 125.alex said …

    ” if they are all educated Catholics, then all of our answers would be the same.”

    do it then. paste the morality checklist and show the world what an excellent rape tolerating xtian you are!

  126. on 30 Nov 2013 at 2:38 am 126.alex said …

    “I apologize for Alex. He just attacks and curses at everyone here.”

    get the fuck outta here, old fella. i curse and call out bullshitters.

    you, on the other hand, disgustingly agree with messenger’s ridiculous position on rape. no apologies needed for you motherfuckers. an ass-kicking maybe.

    for those that missed it, here’s messenger’s message with hor’s complicitness:

    “If a man rapes a woman, he must marry her and pay her. This law is suppose to punish the man for raping the woman, and to help the woman with financial situations.”

    you understand the cursing and shit?

  127. on 30 Nov 2013 at 3:51 am 127.Dippy said …

    “. Guys like Alex and Dippy would have you believe all the worlds problems are by Christians. They ignore all the good they do throughout the world.”

    Show us where even once I have said this. Since you can’t. (Because I never have), once again, that makes you a liar. You must continually lie in order to try and distract attention from the fact that you never answer questions and never provide evidence for your god.

    Do you Agree with messenger that your absolute moral code requires that rape victims marry their rapists?

    Oh yeah, I forgot to ask you:
    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.
    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. What’s that… birds chirping? What’s that? It used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the NINTH time I’ve asked you this. Why are you refusing to answer these question?

  128. on 30 Nov 2013 at 4:07 am 128.the messenger said …

    725.alex, I am not rape tolerant, I believe in punishing the rapists and making them serve the people they raped.

    It would take me a few days to post an entire checklist of all the moral laws in the bible. I do not have the time.

    If you wish to judge the catholic moral laws, go to church.

  129. on 30 Nov 2013 at 4:10 am 129.the messenger said …

    756.Dippy, read some of alex’s comments and you will see how hateful and phobic he is of jews and christians.

    Alex is a deranged, idiotic, bigot towards jews and christians.

    He creates absurd stereotypes and lies about jews and christians.

    He is a mad man.

  130. on 30 Nov 2013 at 4:59 am 130.Dippy said …

    Messy, you are actually endorsing a bible passage that says that a woman should marry the person who raped her, a violation of unimaginable brutality.
    That is the most offensive, insane, and totally fucked up ideas anyone has ever heard.
    The fact that you don’t even realize how abhor ant and repulsive your thought process is is 100% proof that your religous brainwashing has caused you to be completely insane.
    There is simply nothing more to say to you. You are repugnant.

  131. on 30 Nov 2013 at 5:19 am 131.the messenger said …

    730.Dippy, if a man rapes a woman, he must bind himself to her and serve her for the rest of his life. He must bind himself to her through marrage, protect her, serve her, and spend the rest of his life trying to atone for raping her.

    I endorse it because it forces the rapist to spend the rest of his life serving, protecting, and financially supporting the woman he raped. It helps the woman he wronged, and it punishes the rapist. It is a good law.

  132. on 30 Nov 2013 at 5:37 am 132.Dippy said …

    Sure messy… Whatever you say.

  133. on 30 Nov 2013 at 6:02 am 133.Angus and Alexis said …

    BAHAHAHAH…

    Messenger, you know that in the biblical times, women were nothing more than property, and thus if a man raped a women, she was forced to be with HIM, and do what HE says, not the other way around.

  134. on 30 Nov 2013 at 5:27 pm 134.the messenger said …

    733.Angus and Alexis, are you drunk?

    The law clearly states in 1 Corinthians 7:3-4 that husbands and wives have equal power over each other and must serve each other.

    They are equal.

    Women were not considered as property during the biblical times, they were treated with honor and respect. Why else would the men do all of the hard manual labor? They did it so the women would not have to.

  135. on 30 Nov 2013 at 5:33 pm 135.the messenger said …

    762.Angus and Alexis, the rapist is forced to marry that woman that he raped, so that he will serve her and provide for her for the rest of his life on earth.

    Both husband and wife have equal power in a marrage (Corinthians 7:3-4) and they must serve each other. It is not a one sided serving situation, a man serve his wife, and a wife serve her husband.

    They are equal.

    P.S., stop smoking crack.

  136. on 30 Nov 2013 at 5:56 pm 136.Dippy said …

    “It is not a one sided serving situation, a man serve his wife, and a wife serve her husband.”

    You mean her rapist?

  137. on 30 Nov 2013 at 11:14 pm 137.the messenger said …

    736.Dippy, yes the rapist. The rapist is forced to marry the woman he raped, thus according to Corinthians 7:3-4, the rapist is forced to support, serve, and provide for his wife(the woman he raped) for the rest of his life.

  138. on 30 Nov 2013 at 11:32 pm 138.the messenger said …

    736.Dippy, the husband(the rapist) will have the most trouble in serving his spouse, due to the fact that men (during the biblical times and alot in modern times) do most of the hard physical labor. The husband (the rapist) must work twice as hard as he use to, due to the fact that he will have to earn extra money to provide for himself and his new wife(the woman that was raped).

    The law makes the rapist serve, provide and work hard for the woman he raped. This is a good law.

    P.S., 1 Corinthians 7 commands that both of them must fulfill their duties as spouses, thus forcing the husband(rapist) to support his wife(woman that was raped) for the rest of his life.

  139. on 01 Dec 2013 at 12:57 am 139.Dippy said …

    Ok sure messy….. On behalf of women everywhere, let’s give thanks to god that you aren’t in charge! Lol.

    #crazyassmotherfucker

  140. on 01 Dec 2013 at 1:19 am 140.Dippy said …

    Hey Hor,
    Messenger says your absolute moral code requires that women should be forced to marry their rapists, and this is a good thing.
    Do you agree?
    Just curious what your interpretation of the absolute code of morality is.

  141. on 01 Dec 2013 at 2:07 am 141.Angus and Alexis said …

    *laughter*

    Messenger, do you even KNOW how women were treated back in the 0-100 AD times?

    They were not treated well at all, they were property, nothing more than baggage that men could buy by trading cattle.

    Stop posting utter crap, and read some history books.

  142. on 01 Dec 2013 at 3:43 am 142.Suliman said …

    “Messenger, do you even KNOW how women were treated back in the 0-100 AD times?”

    You really need to go back that far? You know how they are treated today???

    That’s great but the OT Israeli law was written 4000BC. You are thousands of years off.

    But Jesus during his time 3BC- 30AD was a great defender of woman and gave them great dignity. Nations with high number of Christians have great respect for woman.

  143. on 01 Dec 2013 at 4:25 am 143.alex said …

    “But Jesus during his time 3BC- 30AD was a great defender of woman…”

    then spit it out. say the old testament is total bullshit; so much for creationism. but you won’t, because the xtian m.o. is biblical cherry picking. everything else is a euphemism, except you morons can’t even agree which ones are. of course you motherfuckers like to stick together. you point out the date of the old testament, but you ignore and implicitly agree with the caveman messenger.

    treating women with great dignity requires jesus teachings? says who? you think all societies that treat women well subscribe to your new testament bullshit?

    messenger, you’re a dangerous, deluded piece of shit. stay anonymous and in the shadows. if you go public, you’d probably get your ass kicked.

  144. on 01 Dec 2013 at 5:18 am 144.Angus and Alexis said …

    “But Jesus during his time 3BC- 30AD was a great defender of woman and gave them great dignity.”

    Source or it didn’t happen.

    “Nations with high number of Christians have great respect for woman.”

    Yes, that is totally why women cannot be high ranking Christians (priests, pope, etc.) Discrimination FTW.

    That being said, i am for gender equality, and both genders today need some fixes.

    To add, you state ISRAELI law, how is this relevant?

    We are talking about the Christ times, and how women are forced to marry their rapists.

  145. on 01 Dec 2013 at 4:10 pm 145.Dippy said …

    742.Suliman said …
    “That’s great but the OT Israeli law was written 4000BC. You are thousands of years off.

    But Jesus during his time 3BC- 30AD was a great defender of woman and gave them great dignity.”

    Suliman brings up an interesting point. It seems tha he is saying that the morality prescribed by almighty god somehow CHANGED between the time of the old testament and the time of Jesus. That things that god once deemed moral, and indeed required to the point of being put down into LAWS for his chosen people to follow… things like owning and punishing slaves, genocide and the killing of pregnant women and children, stoning to death people for various offenses, like being disrespectful to one’s parents, working on the Sabbath, being gay, selling your daughters into slavery, women being forbidden from holding authority over men, being forbidden from speaking in church, being forced to marry their rapists, even being killed for being raped… all of these things that god once endorsed, Suliman seems to be indicating that that idea of morality somehow evolved into something completely different.
    Was god wrong, and then he realized it and changed his mind? How can that be, since he is omniscient and would have known that those OT ideas would be considered abhorrent one day?
    It would seem that Suliman is implying that god is some kind of complete fuck-up. How can god make a mistake?

  146. on 01 Dec 2013 at 7:42 pm 146.According to the “hor” said …

    “It seems tha he is saying that the morality prescribed by almighty god somehow CHANGED”

    Wait, are you saying some things are moral and some things are immoral? Lets test it.

    What are the list of things that are moral?

    What are the list of things that are immoral?

    What is your source?

    Then we can test and see if God is immoral.

    LOL, I though all things to atheist were just relative where nothing is actually immoral. Maybe now we can make some progress. I got the popcorn for everyone!

  147. on 01 Dec 2013 at 8:00 pm 147.alex said …

    “Wait, are you saying some things are moral and some things are immoral? Lets test it.
    What are the list of things that are moral?
    What are the list of things that are immoral?”

    there you go, y’all.

    atheists say that the xtian/muslim god is bullshit. the motherfucker hor comes back and says: wait, some things are bullshit and some things are not. what are the list of things that are bullshit? what are the list of things that are not?

    you got nothing, you dumb motherfucker. atheists don’t believe your shit and you resort to turning the shit around and asking it. go fuck yourself.

  148. on 01 Dec 2013 at 8:05 pm 148.Dippy said …

    “LOL, I though all things to atheist were just relative where nothing is actually immoral.”

    Yes, we know what you “thought”. That’s not what anyone said. LOL indeed. Why is it you have this compulsive need to lie about what others say? It seems to be a serious personality disorder for you. If you would actually honestly address the issues as they are presented, perhaps people would have a bit more respect for you. But it seems you are simply not capable of holding an honest or earnest discussion.

    As to the latest point, which you clearly missed: I am only applying the code of absolute morality YOU claim is handed down by god. I am simply comparing behaviors that USED to be ok… according the the bible, with what people NOW CLAIM to be not ok… according the the bible. Surely you don’t suggest that any current christian theology endorses the idea of owning and beating slaves, do you? What changed? Why is what used to be absolutely moral and in keeping with the code, no longer absolutely moral? Was god wrong, or did the actual morality change somehow?

    While you are pondering this problem, you forgot to tell us if you agree with your fellow theist Messenger that women should be forced to marry their rapists and serve them as a dutiful and equal wife in the holy institution of marriage? Messy says this is a very good law. What do you say? Or more specifically, what does your absolute moral code say about that?

    And also, I’m guessing you overlooked this:
    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. Did it used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the 10th time I’ve asked you this. Why are you refusing to answer these question?

  149. on 01 Dec 2013 at 8:15 pm 149.the messenger said …

    740.Dippy, you misunderstand the law.

    The law commands that if a man rapes a woman, he is forced to bind himself to the woman he raped(through marrage) so he will be required to serve and support her for the rest of his life.

  150. on 01 Dec 2013 at 8:28 pm 150.Dippy said …

    I understand completely.
    You seem to forget that in order for the rapists to marry his victim, the victim must also marry the rapist.

    “It is not a one sided serving situation, a man serve his wife, and a wife serve her husband.”
    “1 Corinthians 7 commands that both of them must fulfill their duties as spouses….”

    Which also means that a woman who was brutally raped must spend the rest of her life married to the animal that assaulted her, and be a faithful and obedient wife. The only reason that I can think of as to why you do not see how totally fucked up that is, is because you are completely insane. There is no other possible explanation.

  151. on 01 Dec 2013 at 9:25 pm 151.alex said …

    the dumbass messenger, desperately trying to stay relevant even as tries in vain to quote his bullshit bible.

    does anybody recall a single law anywhere that even remotely resemble his beloved rape shit? what a fucking joke.

    the moral proof is not. the bible is bullshit. prayers/miracles are statistically neutral.

    why don’t you xtian/muslim/religious fuckers just find comfort in the atheist hell destination and just shut the fuck up. we’ll all get along better. of course, you’ll never see that. your god won’t allow it. you must persevere in the name of your hapless god.

  152. on 01 Dec 2013 at 9:29 pm 152.the hor said …

    ” I am only applying the code of absolute morality YOU claim is handed down by god.”

    Oh!, so you don’t believe the things God did were immoral?

    Ok……some atheists rant about God in that way. Good to see you do not.

    ;)

  153. on 01 Dec 2013 at 9:36 pm 153.alex said …

    “Oh!, so you don’t believe the things God did were immoral?”

    this is not god proof. if i posit that santa claus is immoral for ignoring poor kids, does it prove santa?

    you’re a confirmed, cowardly asshole. go fuck yourself.

  154. on 01 Dec 2013 at 9:56 pm 154.Dippy said …

    “Oh!, so you don’t believe the things God did were immoral?”

    hahahahaha… how clueless can one human be?
    I don’t believe the ‘things god did” were immoral because there is no god and he didn’t “do” anything.

    You, on the other hand, are claiming that your god has provided an absolute moral law that is perfect and unchanging. Yet, the stories told in your magical book clearly show that this moral law has changed over time… evolved, if you will, as human societies have changed.
    For example, Messy demonstrates that the bible says it is moral, required in fact, that a woman be forced to marry her rapist and live as his wife in the holy state of matrimony. This is, in his words “a good law.”

    I take it you agree? If not, please show us the basis that you make that conclusion.
    Oh… by the way:

    It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. Did it used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the 11th time I’ve asked you this. Why are you refusing to answer these question?

  155. on 01 Dec 2013 at 11:16 pm 155.Anonymous said …

    the hor

    What are the list of things that are moral?

    What are the list of things that are immoral?

    What is your source?

    Use science, science guy. Morality is whats acceptable in the day. And at points in history, it’s ALL been acceptable behaviour – no matter the action(s).

    Consider that humans have existed for 250,000+ years. Religion (your flavour anyway) was created about 2000 years ago. Without a Jesus we were somehow able to create enough morals and laws to enable the creation of your religion. So we have 248,000 years without Jesus-freaks and 2000 years with your boy on board. How could we possibly ever have had morals? Did morality start with the bible?

  156. on 01 Dec 2013 at 11:21 pm 156.Dippy said …

    Is anyone else curious why Hor will not answer any of the direct questions about his absolute morality that have been presented to him here, almost a dozen times now?

    Could it be that he KNOWS full well that if he answers, his answers can only show his claim of an absolute morality to be nothing but vaporware. If he actually thought his claim was defendable, he would do it, but instead he chooses to ignore the questions he cannot answer.

    He gives new meaning to the definition I like best of faith. “Faith is believing stuff you know ain’t true.”

  157. on 02 Dec 2013 at 1:43 am 157.alex said …

    “Consider that humans have existed for 250,000+ years.”

    not according to the morons. dating techniques are suspect but they’ll gladly take a blood tranfusion using matching techniques brought to you by?

    dna programmer, camaro on the beach, ocean swimming, oh my! messenger, go run for office! go! go! go!

  158. on 02 Dec 2013 at 2:32 am 158.Science Guy said …

    “Use science, science guy. Morality is whats acceptable in the day.”

    Freddie-Mouse! Welcome Back!

    Lets examine your claim. What is acceptable today?

    Death to Christians with a Bible in N Korea

    Persecution of Gay in Russia. (Thats for Dippy)

    Death to Christians caught gathering as a Church

    How about the killing of babies 50% born?

    Jihad according to numerous Muslim nations.

    So all these acts are moral Freddie-Mouse because they are accepted today? If it is all acceptable why do atheist constantly whine?

    To continue with Dippy’s claims, then how can God be immoral???

    Good Luck!

  159. on 02 Dec 2013 at 6:55 am 159.Angus and Alexis said …

    *smashes head on desk*

    Hor, it also depends on location, traditions, etc, etc.

  160. on 02 Dec 2013 at 2:24 pm 160.Anonymous said …

    Angus, gets it. And the hor continues on with his head firmly wedged between his cheeks.

    The point is, science guy (now there’s an oxymoron), that your bible is NOT an absolute authority and, therefore, does not get to solely decide on our morals. Maybe it’s the go to guide for yourself. Maybe you want to keep slaves and beat your submissive, cowering wench. Good for you!!!

    Hitler used and was backed by the Catholic church. How’d that work out?

  161. on 02 Dec 2013 at 4:03 pm 161.Dippy said …

    So, Hor is back with a fresh pair of socks and reverts to his tactic of demanding simplistic answers from people while refusing to answer any questions about his own claim of an “absolute” morality.

    Science Guy/Hor/A… It seems you agree that the “poor tribal people” would not be considered immoral for sacrificing animals to their god in order to insure (in their minds) their survival, but the teenagers in Ohio would be immoral for sacrificing animals in order to try and get drugs and booze?
    Same action… different moral judgement. How does that fit into your concept of absolute morality? In an absolute morality, animal sacrifice must be either right all the time, or wrong all the time. According to Hor, the morality of the act “does not depend”.

    I also noticed you quickly ran away from your gay persecution argument. Why is that? Please tell us exactly what your absolute moral code from the bible says about how we should treat gays. Did it used to be ok to stone homosexuals to death, but that idea changed??? How did that happen Hor? Is your definition of absolute kind of like Messy’s definition of “eternal”?
    This is the 12th time I’ve asked you this. Why are you refusing to answer these question?

    Also, Messy demonstrates that the bible says it is moral, required in fact, that a woman be forced to marry her rapist and live as his wife in the holy state of matrimony. This is, in his words “a good law”, and most definitely has biblical support.

    I take it you agree? If not, please show us the basis that you make that conclusion.

  162. on 02 Dec 2013 at 4:34 pm 162.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    “The point is, science guy”

    Freddie -Mouse let me lay out what the point is. The point is you cannot differentiate between moral and immoral because in your world all things are moral…..yet……you make judgments about God and others being immoral (until you get challenged). Dippy and you do it regularly, right above this point as a point of reference.

    Same thing Dawkins does in “The Dawkins Delusion”.

    So which is it? Are some things immoral or not? If so why?

    Yes this is A.hor/alpga/beta/charlie/etc to keep you focused…. Duh! lol!!!!!

  163. on 02 Dec 2013 at 6:01 pm 163.Dippy said …

    “The point is you cannot differentiate between moral and immoral because in your world all things are moral…..”

    Show us where anyone here has said that “all things are moral.” Since you can’t, once again you open with a lie.

    “yet……you make judgments about God and others being immoral (until you get challenged). Dippy and you do it regularly, right above this point as a point of reference.”

    The post above that you have ignored a dozen times now makes absolutely no judgement about morality. It simply asks YOU to declare whether specific things are moral or immoral according to your absolute code of morality, something you steadfastly refuse to do… why?

    You said flat out the the morality or immorality of any given behavior “does not depend.” So, having claimed that, we just want to see what actions your code deems moral or immoral. That should be easy for you.
    For example, tell us, yes or no, is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist? That should be an easy one. It either is, or it is not. Messy says not only is it moral, it is a very good idea, sanctioned by god. What do you say?

  164. on 02 Dec 2013 at 6:48 pm 164.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    “Show us where anyone here has said that “all things are moral”

    Can make no other assumption. Asked by about several events in different cultures that none of you will declare is moral or immoral. Why?

    Killing Christians for owning a Bible immoral?

    Killing Jews for being Jews OK?

    Persecuting gays in Russia OK?

    Come on! You don’t have problems making moral judgments …..until now………lol!!!

    So which is it? Are some things immoral or not? If so why?

  165. on 02 Dec 2013 at 7:06 pm 165.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    Dip,

    Here is another scenario you can answer to get the ball rolling.

    “For example, tell us, yes or no, is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist”

  166. on 02 Dec 2013 at 7:23 pm 166.Dippy said …

    Notice that Hor “Sckence Guy” [sic] has again dodged the question.
    Why?
    Simple, if he says “yes, forcing a rape victim to marry her rapist is a moral act.”, well, then he is clearly insane. If he says “no, it would be immoral for a rape victim to be forced to marry her rapist.” then he must explain why the bible clearly says this is what should happen. An un-winable situation. Same with all the other hypothetical situations he has been presented with. So he refuses to answer any of them because he KNOWS that his claim of an absolute morality is simply not true. But, like a true delusional theist, he will simply ignore the actual facts and continue to proclaim it is so.

    “Can make no other assumption. Asked by about several events in different cultures that none of you will declare is moral or immoral. Why?”

    Because in almost all of the situations, it would depend. Simple as that.

    “Killing Christians for owning a Bible immoral?”
    I would say that killing Christians simply for owning a bible would be immoral. Killing Christians who were owning a bible while shooting up an elementary school would be moral… see the difference? It depends.

    “Killing Jews for being Jews OK?”
    No, killing Jews for being Jews is not ok. Neither is lying to protect them from others who were trying to kill Jews for being Jews either… something your “absolute morality” forbids.

    “Persecuting gays in Russia OK?”
    “Persecution” is a word that implies punishment of the innocent. According to my sense of morality, that is not ok, but it would depend on what the gays were doing as to whether or not it would warrant punishment.

    But it is perfectly acceptable according to your biblical prescribed morality. Is preventing gays from being married “persecution”?
    Which method of determining morality do you think is superior?”

    There, I answered your questions fully… now will you answer mine?

    Is animal sacrifice immoral?

    Is it ever ok to tell a lie?

    Is it ever ok to murder someone?

    Is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist?

    Is it ok to own slaves?

    Please reference the exact places in your absolute code of morality from which you derive these answers… and remember, “it depends” is NOT an acceptable answer for you.

  167. on 02 Dec 2013 at 7:50 pm 167.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    “I would say that killing Christians simply for owning a bible would be immoral.”

    Why?

    “No, killing Jews for being Jews is not ok.”

    Why?

    “Is preventing gays from being married”persecution”?”

    Is preventing Freddie-Mouse from marrying his mom if they both agree persecution?

    I haven’t seen you argue for that right??…..

  168. on 02 Dec 2013 at 8:32 pm 168.Dippy said …

    Now now… I answered your questions… how about you man up, grown a pair, and answer the questions put to you before you demand more answers. YOU are the one claiming an absolute morality, not me. Why is this a problem for you?

  169. on 02 Dec 2013 at 8:49 pm 169.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    “I answered your questions…”

    No, actually you did not. I clearly asked why which is the most important part…….now go borrow a ser and man up…..

    Why is it so hard for you to give a reason why such actions are wrong?

    (sigh….)

  170. on 02 Dec 2013 at 9:14 pm 170.Dippy said …

    So, that would be a “No” on your part.

    For someone with an absolute morality, you are very reluctant to reveal what it actuality says. Perhaps your bullshit is actually more obvious to you than you will admit? hahahaha… you are as transparent as glass… fraud.

    Your delusion is very deep rooted, surpassed only by your dishonesty.

    Is animal sacrifice immoral?

    Is it ever ok to tell a lie?

    Is it ever ok to murder someone?

    Is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist?

    Is it ok to own slaves?

    Please reference the exact places in your absolute code of morality from which you derive these answers… and remember, “it depends” is NOT an acceptable answer for you.

  171. on 02 Dec 2013 at 9:56 pm 171.the messenger said …

    760.Anonymous, you liar. The catholic church never supported hitler.

    Most of the people that tried to assassinate hitler were Roman Catholics.

  172. on 02 Dec 2013 at 10:05 pm 172.the messenger said …

    799.Dippy, animal sacrifice is only moral if it is sacrificed to the one true GOD(The GOD of abraham).

    It is never ok to lie.

    Murder is never allowed.

    It is moral to force a rapist to bind himself(through marrage) to the person he raped. therefore he will be required to serve her and support her for the rest of his life. It is a punishment to the rapist, and a gift to the person he raped(because he is required to serve her for the rest of his life).

    Yes, only if you treat the slave well and let him/her go within a 6 year period.

    The laws tell us what to do in certain situations, therefore it does depend on the situation.

  173. on 02 Dec 2013 at 10:12 pm 173.the messenger said …

    790.Dippy, the man(rapist) is forced to bind himself(through marrage) to the woman(person he raped) so he will have to serve and support her for the rest of his life.

    What is bad about that?

  174. on 02 Dec 2013 at 10:15 pm 174.the messenger said …

    783.Dippy, the laws of the bible have never changed.

    I dare you to show me a single way that it changed.
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    ,
    DO NOT BE A COWARD.
    DO NOT BE A COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  175. on 02 Dec 2013 at 11:06 pm 175.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    Aw……… another epic fail by Dip. He says certain actions are wrong…….but refuses to tell me why?

    Without a why, how can anything be immoral Dippy? Quite a pickle you have there, huh?

  176. on 02 Dec 2013 at 11:25 pm 176.Dippy said …

    I have told you why on many occasions, you are just too dim, or too willfully ignorant, to grasp the concept. Lol.
    You, on the other hand, refuse to even tell us which actions you think are right, and which are wrong. That is because you don’t have balls enough to even support your own claims. Thos is because you realize your claims are not only stupid, they are indefensible. Otherwise you would answer the questions posed to you. The fact that you refuse to do so tells us that even you realize your position is built entirely on bullshit and self delusion. It must be sad to be you, but let’s try again:
    Is animal sacrifice immoral?
    Is it ever ok to tell a lie?
    Is it ever ok to murder someone?
    Is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist?
    Is it ok to own slaves?
    Please reference the exact places in your absolute code of morality from which you derive these answers… and remember, “it depends” is NOT an acceptable answer for you.

  177. on 02 Dec 2013 at 11:39 pm 177.Dippy said …

    And while you are thinking about what your absolute moral code instructs, let’s review what your theist friend messy says;
    on 02 Dec 2013 at 10:05 pm 772.the messenger said …
    799.Dippy, animal sacrifice is only moral if it is sacrificed to the one true GOD(The GOD of abraham).

    So animal sacrifice is ok if you are a Christian or Jew? I wonder why no current Christian or Jewish churches currently perform ritual animal sacrifices as prescribed in the bible then?
    It is never ok to lie.
    So, lying to save an innocent is forbidden, but butchering an innocent animal for no reason other that to please a gods bloodlust is perfectly ok?
    Murder is never allowed.
    Yet, he proudly proclaims that many faithful Catholics tried to murder Adolfo Hitler? WTF? I guess “never” in messy’s world doesn’t exactly mean “never”. Lol
    It is moral to force a rapist to bind himself(through marrage) to the person he raped. therefore he will be required to serve her and support her for the rest of his life. It is a punishment to the rapist, and a gift to the person he raped(because he is required to serve her for the rest of his life).
    Yes, raped women should be forced to marry their rapists and serve them as a wife, until death do they part…. Ok.

    Yes, only if you treat the slave well and let him/her go within a 6 year period.
    Ok, so slavery is now morally ok, with certain restriction.

    The laws tell us what to do in certain situations, therefore it does depend on the situation.

    So, the absolute morality provided by god almighty, actually depends on circumstances.

    Does Hor agree? Or has messy got it wrong? How do you know?

  178. on 03 Dec 2013 at 1:17 am 178.Science Guy said …

    “I have told you why on many occasions”

    So we now know lying is OK to cover embarrassment?

    lol!

    Sure Dippy! Let me know when you can figure out “Why” then maybe we can move on.

    sigh……..

  179. on 03 Dec 2013 at 1:56 am 179.the messenger said …

    806.Dippy, the jews would make animal sacrifices to GOD, but they do not have the proper place to do it. They can’t make them until they rebuild the temple.

    lying is never necessary. There is always a way to save people without lying.

    Are you drunk, I never said that Catholics tried to “murder” hitler. Murder is the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. It is completely lawful to kill hitler, because he was murdering innocent jews, and therefore it is completely lawful to kill hitler.

  180. on 03 Dec 2013 at 2:02 am 180.the messenger said …

    806.Dippy, are you stupid? answer is yes.

    I stated….

    (It is moral to FORCE THE RAPIST to bind himself(through marrage) to the person he raped. therefore he will be required to serve her and support her for the rest of his life. It is a punishment to the rapist, and a gift to the person he raped(because he is required to serve her for the rest of his life)

    You twisted my words, and said….

    (Yes, raped women should be forced to marry their rapists and serve them as a wife, until death do they part…. Ok.)

    The rapist must serve the woman he raped. Not the other way around. Why do you twist my words?

    Are you insaine

  181. on 03 Dec 2013 at 2:50 am 181.the messenger said …

    777.Dippy, the law tells us what to do in situations. It is absolute.

    When we enter a new situation we must consult the law, and do what it says. That is what I was trying to type when I said the following. (The laws tell us what to do in certain situations, therefore it does depend on the situation”.)

    I am sorry for wording it wrong.

  182. on 03 Dec 2013 at 7:03 am 182.Angus and Alexis said …

    “I stated….”

    I am going to end here.

    Messenger.
    Please get this through your skull.

    During.
    Biblical.
    Times.
    Women.
    Were.
    Slaves.
    To.
    Men.

    The bible was written during the same era, and forced the same things.

    Women, served their rapists.

  183. on 03 Dec 2013 at 4:23 pm 183.Dippy said …

    778.Science Guy said …
    “So we now know lying is OK to cover embarrassment?”

    Your lies are not covering your embarrassment silly Sckence man. We all see you for what you are, a troll of the worst order.
    Now, moving on… I think this is now the 13th time you have been asked direct questions which you have failed to answer. There is only one reason for you to refuse to answer them. You know your answers will show you to be the idiot we already know you are. So you avoid. You aren’t fooling anyone but yourself, and I can see how that is very embarrassing for you. But your lying is not avoiding that, it is only making you the laughing stock.

    Now, let’s try again:
    Lol.
    You refuse to even tell us which actions you think are right, and which are wrong. That is because you don’t have balls enough to even support your own claims. This is because you realize your claims are not only stupid, they are indefensible. Otherwise you would answer the questions posed to you. The fact that you refuse to do so tells us that even you realize your position is built entirely on bullshit and self delusion.

    Is animal sacrifice immoral?
    Messy says as long as you are butchering an animal to please Yahweh, it’s ok. Do you agree?

    Is it ever ok to tell a lie?
    We already know that you claim that it is never ok to lie, even if the lie results in great good.

    Is it ever ok to murder someone?
    Messy says “no”, intentionally killing someone is never ok, unless of course that person is bad, then it’s ok and not murder. Is this a fair statement of your absolute moral code. Is it ok to kill someone who does not share your morality?

    Is it moral to force a rape victim to marry her rapist?
    Messy says “yes”. A rape victim should be forced to marry her rapist.

    Is it ok to own slaves?
    Messy says “yes”. As long as you don’t beat them to the point that they cannot walk fter 3 days time, and only for a period of 6 years, then it is ok.

    Since you and he are referencing the same moral code handed down by god almighty, I am very interested to know if you agree with him. If not, please explain how you can both reference the same code of morality and draw different conclusions.
    Please reference the exact places in your absolute code of morality from which you derive your answers… and remember, “it depends” is NOT an acceptable answer for either of you.

  184. on 03 Dec 2013 at 4:29 pm 184.Dippy said …

    (Yes, raped women should be forced to marry their rapists and serve them as a wife, until death do they part…. Ok.)

    The rapist must serve the woman he raped. Not the other way around. Why do you twist my words?

    Didn’t you say:
    “It is not a one sided serving situation, a man serve his wife, and a wife serve her husband.”
    “1 Corinthians 7 commands that both of them must fulfill their duties as spouses….”

    What part of the idea that no woman would want to be married to the person who raped and brutalized her is so foreign to you? If you were a woman and a man assaulted and raped you, would you want to then be forced to spend the rest of your life married to him?
    How fucking stupid can you possibly be?

  185. on 03 Dec 2013 at 5:47 pm 185.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    So sad. We had once atheist who cane to the thread and could tell us exactly why he believed lying, murder, etc was immoral.

    Dippy lies to us all by claiming he has given us the “why” ( lol, we all know better).

    His “why” is this. He determines when it is OK to lie, murder, steal etc. We who might be in his path must trust that his personal morality doesn’t include murdering Christians caught with a Bible, stealing from you or lying on his taxes. Nothing is immoral so everyone’s personal opinion is equal even if they are Stalin.

    That is how it works in Dippy’s world.

  186. on 03 Dec 2013 at 7:43 pm 186.Anonymous said …

    the hor

    Nothing is immoral

    Ask Benny Hinn and other healers. Benny’s fleecing the gullible jesus-freaks for all they’re worth. And he’s using christianity to do it!!!

    Your problem is proving Absolute Morality. Where is it? That’s right, you’ve got NOTHING.
    All you’ve got is: ” If you don’t behave then your eternity is crispy”. lol!! What a loser.

  187. on 03 Dec 2013 at 8:48 pm 187.the messenger said …

    813.Dippy, I was simply acknowledging the fact that you continuously left out the part about men serving their husbands.

    Instead of stating the full situation, you focused only on the fact that the wife serves her husband, and left out the part about men serving their wives as well.

    You attempted to deceive everyone into thinking that the wife was the only one that served.

  188. on 03 Dec 2013 at 9:21 pm 188.Ths Sckence Guy said …

    Even Freddie-Mouse cannot defend the so-called atheist morality. They see the HUGE problem but have no answer. Contradiction after contradiction…….sigh….

  189. on 03 Dec 2013 at 9:41 pm 189.Dippy said …

    The only contradiction is that you claim there is an absolute morality but cannot even tell us what it says!
    LOL… women being forced to marry their rapists, owning slaves for 6 years, ritually slaughtering animals, assassinations, murdering homosexuals… all are ok according to your moral code.
    You claim lying is never ok, but you come here and lie constantly. There is no “atheist moral code”. LOL, you are clueless. You know full well your absolute moral code does not exist, yet clearly relative morality exists among humans and either other sentient non-human species… even those who have never heard of your god or your bible, and it evolves with social structure. Where does it come from? If it was given by a god, wouldn’t it be exactly the same for everyone? Wouldn’t it be eternal and unchanging? Yet we have a god given morality that allows slavery and forced marriages? Or does in not allow those thing, Mr. Sckence?

    The fact that you refuse to answer even the most basic questions about your absolute morality is proof that it exists in the same place as your god… your imagination. And you can’t even imagine up a perfect morality that actually works! LOL……….

  190. on 03 Dec 2013 at 9:44 pm 190.Dippy said …

    787.the messenger said …

    “813.Dippy, I was simply acknowledging the fact that you continuously left out the part about men serving their husbands.”

    Messenger, you are clearly insane. Tell you what… when you get ass raped by some dude, come back and tell us if you’d be ok with being married to him for the rest of your life so you can “serve” each other. LOL… what a complete fucking moron.

  191. on 03 Dec 2013 at 9:45 pm 191.Dippy said …

    He Messy… should children that get raped by their priests have to marry them too? Or does the law not apply to priests? hahahaha…..

  192. on 03 Dec 2013 at 10:21 pm 192.the messenger said …

    818.Dippy, Assassination are only allowed if it is to save lives, such as assassinating hitler.

    Murdering homosexuals is not allowed, according to the moral laws of the bible. Murdering anyone is also not allowed.

    Tell me, can you back up your “murdering homosexuals” claim with facts? Could you provide any evidence(a verse perhaps) to back up this claim?

    I am waiting for your response.

  193. on 03 Dec 2013 at 10:27 pm 193.the messenger said …

    819.Dippy, that law states, therefore, I would not have to marry anyone. You idiot.

  194. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:11 pm 194.the messenger said …

    819.Dippy, in comment 822 I posted before I was finished. My bad.

    819.Dippy, that law states,”man is caught raping a young woman” therefore, I would not have to marry anyone, because that law only applies to men that have raped women.

  195. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:19 pm 195.Dippy said …

    818.Dippy, Assassination are only allowed if it is to save lives, such as assassinating hitler.

    Really? How about assassinating Bush? He launched a war in Iraq on false premises that cost tens of thousands of lives? Who gets to decide who’s life can be forfeited and who’s cannot? Assassination is executing a duly elected leader of a sovereign nation without a trial or due process. It is most definitely murder, no question about it, don’t be naive.

    Murdering homosexuals is not allowed, according to the moral laws of the bible. Murdering anyone is also not allowed.

    Tell me, can you back up your “murdering homosexuals” claim with facts? Could you provide any evidence(a verse perhaps) to back up this claim?

    “If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

    Seriously, you want to go there? LOL

    Shall we list all the other sins that require the person to be put to death? Claiming to be a prophet or to speak for god is one of them… LOL.

    I know, I know, god didn’t really mean “death” when he said “death” he just meant “punished”… just like “eternal” doesn’t mean forever, and “absolute” means “depending on the circumstance”. Notice even the liar Hor/Ass/Crum won’t even defend your lunatic ravings….
    You give new meaning to the word “deluded”.

  196. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:21 pm 196.the messenger said …

    818.Dippy, sometimes slavery was necessary in order to survive.

    If a man lives in a poor country, and only makes enouph money to buy food for himself and one other person, would it be morally right to own a slave and therefore would not have to pay him, but would be able to support himself and his slave with food?

    If a man breaks his leg and can’t go to work, he will get replaced at his job and he will go into poverty and would not be able to support his kids with food. Would it be alright if this man bought a slave and made him go to work? He would be able to feed his kids and the slave, but if he payed the slave and made him a servant, he would not have enouph money to purchase food for himself and his kids.

    Answer as soon as possible, If you can come up with an answer.

  197. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:30 pm 197.Dippy said …

    First:
    “assassinate
    verb
    murder (an important person) in a surprise attack for political or religious reasons.”

    “796.the messenger said …
    818.Dippy, sometimes slavery was necessary in order to survive.”

    Ok… then what you are saying is that it is not always immoral? Would that be accurate, Messy?

    Now, you have already said that it is not in any way immoral to force a woman to marry the person who raped her… but you didn’t answer if that rule applies to other things. Should a little girl be forced to marry her priest if he rapes her? How about if he doesn’t actually rape her, but sexually molests her? Should he still have to marry her… and is that right away, or does he have to wait until she reaches legal age?
    How about if it isn’t rape, but some other grievous assault. What if a man say, sets a woman on fire, and she lives, but is badly burned? Would he still be forced to marry her? What if he thought she was a witch? Would it be ok to burn her then? So many questions…..

  198. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:30 pm 198.the messenger said …

    824.Dippy, bush is a hero. He helped overthrow a evil dictator that murdered thousands of his own people with chemical weapons. Iraqis were praising the Americans for saving them.

    824.Dippy, if the assasination is in the defense of a human life, it is not considered murder, it is considered a act of war.

    Killing osama bin laden did not involve a trial, yet it is not considered murder, due to the fact that assasinating osama actually saved lives.

  199. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:34 pm 199.Dippy said …

    “If a man breaks his leg and can’t go to work, he will get replaced at his job and he will go into poverty and would not be able to support his kids with food. Would it be alright if this man bought a slave and made him go to work? He would be able to feed his kids and the slave..”

    oh my fucking god!!!

    So, if I break my leg tomorrow I can morally go and BUY another human being and force him to work for me?

    Hor… do you see why rational people are afraid of religious nutcases forcing their insane beliefs on the rest of us? Seriously?

  200. on 03 Dec 2013 at 11:34 pm 200.the messenger said …

    826.Dippy, the bible recognizes that sometime slavery is needed during a situation that involves providing for one’s family, or one’s life.

    So, yes, sometimes slavery is immoral, and it is moral.

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