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Christianity Thomas on 05 Jan 2013 12:05 am

The insanity of religion – “God is faithful”

Here is an article that claims God will never let you down:

God won’t let you down

So remember that regardless to what difficult and seemingly impossible situations are pressing in on you, just know that God won’t let you down because He is faithful.

Imagine the level of insanity it takes to make a statement like this. Every year, 10 million kids die of things like starvation. More than half a million Americans died of heart disease last year, and another half million of cancer. 100,000 people died in accidents. And then there are the mass murders at places like Sandy Hook school. Was God “faithful” in any of these deaths? Clearly not!

Whatever the cause of your crisis be it unemployment, marital problems, sickness, etc. although things around you and even your emotions change, God doesn’t because He is faithful….

So why are you worried? You cast doubt on God’s very nature when doubting the outcome after placing the situation in His hands.

God is true to Himself and His righteous nature. His word will produce the results of His promises due to His faithfulness to His word and you can expect the results of His promises when applying the word to your life. His promises are sure and trustworthy.

So think about this. You are sick, you pray, you go to the doctor. First, why do you need to see a doctor if God is faithful? Second, last year about 200,000 people who did see a doctor died in the U.S. because of medical errors. What wonderful, faithful God would allow that?

The only way to say “god is faithful” is to completely ignore reality. Where does this level of insanity come from?

1,076 Responses to “The insanity of religion – “God is faithful””

  1. on 11 Feb 2013 at 10:59 am 1.Lesbian carwasher said …

    ((((HELL)))) does not exist, neither the devil.

    Although if he did, id say hello with a M41a2 pulse rifle….to the face

  2. on 17 Mar 2013 at 10:15 pm 2.showme2 said …

    an m41a2 pulse rifle to the face ? i hope you can get some help and talk to the right person. you are misinformed about this world and GOD. don’t feel embarrassed. there are many nuclear physicists who are just as misinformed. remember science don’t conflict with GOD. science is a product of GOD.

  3. on 18 Mar 2013 at 1:11 am 3.alex said …

    “there are many nuclear physicists who are just as misinformed.”

    the talking donkey is misinformed? lot’s wife into salt is misinformed? jesus fucking christ cursing out the fig tree is misinformed? and on… and on….

    “m41a2 pulse rifle”

    wah! damn atheists threatening me! persecuted! puleeze! maybe the next time them bible thumpers come over, i’ll sharpen my katana?

    theist assholes talk a big game about going to heaven, yet they get immunized, put on their seat belts and go to the doctor. so much for faith.

  4. on 18 Mar 2013 at 2:45 am 4.The messenger said …

    Brother 403.alex, Jesus cursed that one fig tree as a way to show his power.

    You were referring to events that occurred in the bible, and you say that they are misinformed. You are wrong about that.

    A event cannot be misinformed, only people can be misinformed.

    Lot’s wife was turned to dust because she disobedience God many times durring her life on Earth, and her wrong decisions put her family in harms way. She deserved the punishment that she got.

  5. on 18 Mar 2013 at 2:53 am 5.The messenger said …

    403.alex, Jesus will protect us if we have faith or not, but he does expect us to make smart decisions in order to help better our selves and others. If we put our selves in harms way intentionally, then there is no garrenty that God will save us from dying on Earth. God wants us to make smart decisions, such as, “buckling up our seat belts”, or looking both ways before crossing the road.

    Jesus is our father, and he will protect us if we are willing to protect ourselves and others too.

  6. on 18 Mar 2013 at 9:15 am 6.Xcanthean Zeno said …

    Is there a god given absolute moral code?
    if yes please specify.

    From now on, can all athiests please only respond with this if they do not answer?

  7. on 18 Mar 2013 at 9:43 am 7.alex said …

    s0l = nongratisCount#8
    mess = nongratisCount#14

    …and mess opens up a commanding lead. s0l needs to pick up his bullshit if he wants them virgens.

  8. on 19 Mar 2013 at 3:24 am 8.The messenger said …

    on 18 Mar 2013 at 2:53 am 405.The messenger said …
    403.alex, Jesus will protect us if we have faith or not, but he does expect us to make smart decisions in order to help better our selves and others. If we put our selves in harms way intentionally, then there is no garrenty that God will save us from dying on Earth. God wants us to make smart decisions, such as, “buckling up our seat belts”, or looking both ways before crossing the road.
    Jesus is our father, and he will protect us if we are willing to protect ourselves and others too.

  9. on 25 Mar 2013 at 5:08 am 9.Adam said …

    “last year about 200,000 people who did see a doctor died in the U.S. because of medical errors.”

    Now how many of those people put there complete trust and faith in God?

  10. on 28 Apr 2013 at 4:09 pm 10.michael said …

    I’m headed to a first communion for a friend today. Not him, his daughter. When he invited me, I didn’t know what to say. I just kinda said I might be there. Then later, when I was sitting with a mutual friend and i mention it, he being a catholic, nearly flipped. He had forgotten about it and started to panic.

    Communions, the first time that a child eats a blessed wafer and is told that it is a piece of a dead Jew, is a huge deal. Its one thing to loath this stupidity, but how do i hate the people i love?

    im going today. I will hang out, tell her congratulations i guess, and hand her a card with some money in it.

    What else am i supposed to do? I love my friends. Even thought they believe totally screwball stuff and engage in behavior that lends credibility for dangerous religious activity.

    I’m torn. By the time anyone reads this the event will already have taken place. But feel free to weigh in on what you would do in the same situation.

    i dont care if religious folks reply, but they wont be very helpful. Its not like they know what its like to go to an atheist event or anything.

  11. on 28 Apr 2013 at 4:27 pm 11.alex said …

    most atheists don’t hate religious people, really. it’s just the shit they do: god bless you. don’t build that mosque. thank god, we won! god is on our side. atheists are going to hell. repent. this is an xtian nation. teach creationism as fact. and on… and on… with their bullshit.

    go ahead with you thang, it’s cool.

  12. on 28 Apr 2013 at 4:33 pm 12.the messenger said …

    411.alex, for the hundredth time, islam is an abomination.

  13. on 28 Apr 2013 at 8:54 pm 13.alex said …

    messenger, go fuck yourself. go troll a kkk site where your brothers hang out, you asshole. better yet, go find your cousin, s0l. google sheep and you’ll find him.

  14. on 29 Apr 2013 at 6:43 am 14.Fluttershy said …

    411.alex, for the hundredth time, islam is an abomination.

    I dont know why…
    But i pictured a person called messenger getting stoned by muslims in iraq or something, and despite praying for help, he dies…

    Then some random guy walks in and says.
    “Told you he isnt real…”

  15. on 08 Aug 2013 at 7:59 pm 15.bjones said …

    Yo all of yall who believe god aint real are a bunch of fucking idiots yall are gonna burn in hell yall niggas is some bitch made bamas

  16. on 09 Aug 2013 at 3:05 am 16.thomas said …

    Let me clarify on my earlier post, I don’t think cancer is a good thing , I don’t think HIV is good, I don’t think death is good. And I didn’t say I valued my relationship with my family over my grandmothers life. What I am saying is that things like disease and death are inevitable facts of life. And I’m deeply sorry for those who have lost loved ones. We all get sick, and we all die. These are two facts of being human. God aside. These tragic things do happen its just up to every last one of us to find the good when things go bad.
    I’m not bashing anybodies beliefs, by all means believe in God, believe in prayer, or don’t. I’m not going to hate on anybody for that. You all have valuable opinions.
    I am a biology major, requires a couple physics classes, and I know newtons laws by heart. I live to study and learn about this amazing earth we live on. Science doesn’t prove or disprove God to me, but when I learn more biology and physics the more I see a beautiful creation formed by an even more beautiful creator. I’m sorry if this for you means “all is lost” and maybe I’m wasting my time with God, though I am confident I’m not, but shoot if I get to the end and I’m wrong, at least I’ve been a positive, more loving person through this belief, and that is not a tragedy. I’ll be going in the ground with every body else. But if I’m right then God has some good things coming to me.
    God doesn’t tell me to force my beliefs on people he just tells me not to be shy about them, your beliefs are up to you and I commend you for fighting for those beliefs. God imaginary or not has done good things for me and I don’t have to prove his existence to go on living strongly and passionately for him. If you wanna say f**k God, I won’t stop you. But heres one prayer I hope God does answer, I pray that regardless of your beliefs you all find GOOD in this world that is filled with so much of bad. Also for those who don’t believe in God, try not to have so much hate for the guy, after all according to you he hasn’t done anything to you.
    With Love (regardless of your beliefs)
    Thomas

  17. on 09 Aug 2013 at 4:07 am 17.alex said …

    “at least I’ve been a positive, more loving person through this belief, and that is not a tragedy.”

    with the redemption card in your back pocket in case you want to repeatedly rape little boys, knowing you’ll be forgiven many times over.

    “I pray that regardless of your beliefs you all find GOOD in this world that is filled with so much of bad.”

    way too fucking presumptuous on your part. i’m as good as the next motherfucking theist. give me a test, you pompous piece of shit.

    “try not to have so much hate for the guy, after all according to you he hasn’t done anything to you.”

    read the motherfucking blog and draw your own conclusion, ya ignorant bitch. shoving religion down everybody’s throat is the reason, you dipshit.

  18. on 09 Aug 2013 at 5:03 am 18.thomas said …

    Shoot I put that whole comment under the wrong post, but man you read that whole thing wrong, I do just as much wrong as the next guy, and to throw that rape card is a little bit messed up cause I would never do something like that. People that use the redemption card to justify things like that do not know God as well as they think. but I’m also not saying you’re bad, I don’t know you and have no right to judge. I was simply saying there are bad things in the world and I pray in that bad stuff everybody is able to find good things. And I was drawing a conclusion man same as you sorry I made you feel I was shoving anything down your throat that wasn’t my intention. Have a good one.

  19. on 09 Aug 2013 at 10:11 am 19.Angus and Alexis said …

    “but man you read that whole thing wrong”

    No, alex just happens to be….”alex”…

    “and to throw that rape card is a little bit messed up cause I would never do something like that. ”

    Good to know you arent a failure of human morality entirely…
    But the fact that the redemption card exists, makes your standing very frail…

    “And I was drawing a conclusion man same as you sorry I made you feel I was shoving anything down your throat that wasn’t my intention.”

    Jeese, your like…the first guy here who isnt “A”, please stay…PLEASE!!!
    Anyway, protip, dont pray for us, say bless you, or other theist crap, all you will get is insults from alex, and generally get looked down on.

    “I was simply saying there are bad things in the world and I pray in that bad stuff everybody is able to find good things.”

    And we are saying said prayers are not doing anything, and that good and bad things are simply natural events.

  20. on 10 Aug 2013 at 2:20 am 20.thomas said …

    Angus and alexis thank you guys for the good talk that’s the kind of stuff I come to sites like this for, not to cause anything crazy, just to learn and have conversations, with other people. People try and use the redemption card to do horrible things, but I think its definitely bs when that happens because these people think in advanced about what they are going to do and they’re like oh God will just forgive me. That’s an abuse of his love, and those people are awful people.
    Thanks again for the good talk. Bless you guys

  21. on 10 Aug 2013 at 3:43 am 21.Angus and Alexis said …

    “Bless you guys”

    I dont think you got the message…

  22. on 10 Aug 2013 at 1:23 pm 22.alex said …

    “Bless you guys”

    well, allahu akbar to you, fella. allah loves you, your family and yo country, but you better recognize.

    you likey?

    think secular, keep it to yourself, don’t expect special treatment and we’ll all get along fine. fuck you a/martin/40year/asshole.

  23. on 11 Aug 2013 at 2:18 am 23.Angus and Alexis said …

    /\

    What he said…

  24. on 11 Aug 2013 at 5:38 am 24.G said …

    Why is it so hard to understand that we live in a world where God allows us the freedom to do great good or great harm to one another? His faithfulness does not trump our freedom. If God were to intervene, He would not love us perfectly. Perfect hatred is control, as exhibited by Hitler, Stalin, etc. Perfect love allows us freedom, as exhibited by God. The Bible is a collection of Jewish books about humanity’s quest to understand God. Why Jewish? Because they were one of the first tribes to believe in monotheism. So, they began to document their understanding of A God.

    So much of the reasoning I’ve read in these comments are philosophically naive and undeveloped.

  25. on 11 Aug 2013 at 5:46 am 25.G said …

    If 2 people look at a stereogram, one will say with complete confidence, “there is no shape”. The other will say with confidence, “there it is! Do you see it?” Both swear by what they see. The difference is in the seeing. If you don’t see God, then you won’t. If you see God, then you are blessed. God reveals himself in many ways, both empirically and subjectively (faith). Just because suffering happens in the world, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist. Really people…. are you that simple? God MUST allow suffering at the expense of nullifying something even greater, and, clearly, He has chosen to do that. Just because a child doesn’t understand his parent, doesn’t mean the parent doesn’t exist! Come on people…you’re better than that.

  26. on 16 Aug 2013 at 8:50 am 26.Anonymous said …

    god is real but satan rules this world with full madnesss example do you notice the criminals and people killing each other do you notice crimes and otherr wickedness the best example of badness cause by satan dates back hundred million years ago the first man created by god is adam and second is eve the true story is that satan influenced eve to eat the fruit that is why badness wars crimes everything you can think of.. that is my opinion

  27. on 16 Aug 2013 at 8:52 am 27.Anonymous said …

    eve is the first girl ever created by god

  28. on 16 Aug 2013 at 8:54 am 28.Anonymous said …

    god will save us but you need to be good and learn about god

  29. on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:13 pm 29.Angus and Alexis said …

    An Anonymous said…
    “god will save us but you need to be good and learn about god”

    First off, no, i will not learn about god, i already know he is a sadistic bastard who enjoys pain and suffering.
    And secondly, he does not exist in the first place.
    Go on, pull off a reverse burden of proof or pascals wager.

    “eve is the first girl ever created by god”

    No, Eve is the first rib WOMAN made by god.
    Not that she actually existed.

    “god is real but satan rules this world”

    Last time i checked, this world is ruled by no one, it is simply too large to rule.
    We cannot even leave our solar system for starters.

    “do you notice the criminals and people killing each other do you notice crimes and otherr wickedness”

    You see, most crimes are done by the mentally damaged, and most of the other ones are because they need said items stolen. The few exceptions are just sick bastards who need to be taken away from the genepool…

    “the true story is that satan influenced eve to eat the fruit”

    No, the story is that satan was in the form…OF A TALKING SNAKE…and made her eat a fruit. Yes…you believe all evil comes from a rib woman being persuaded by a talking snake into eating a magic fruit…Congrats…

    “that is why badness wars crimes everything you can think of”

    No, “Badness” comes from humans being a very uncivilised race, despite all our collective knowledge and attempts of world peace…

    “that is my opinion”

    Nice, care to post some facts next time?
    Perhaps some proof of god?

  30. on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:29 pm 30.alex said …

    “If 2 people look at a stereogram, one will say with complete confidence, “there is no shape”. The other will say with confidence, “there it is! Do you see it?” Both swear by what they see. The difference is in the seeing. If you don’t see God, then you won’t. ”

    the difference is that you’re an idiot. if you don’t see god, then you won’t? you’re tryna be deep but you’re a dipshit.

    “If you see God, then you are blessed.”

    wrong moron. you’re blessed, but other people are not is your claim? the stark stupidity misses you? away with you, you dense fuck.

  31. on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:31 pm 31.Angus and Alexis said …

    G said…
    “If 2 people look at a stereogram, one will say with complete confidence, “there is no shape”. The other will say with confidence, “there it is! Do you see it?” Both swear by what they see.”

    Yes?
    This is relevant how?

    “The difference is in the seeing.”

    You dont say?
    I would assume the difference is in hearing and smell *Sarcasm*

    “If you don’t see God, then you won’t. If you see God, then you are blessed.”

    So you are saying that god personally allows his own creation of which he loves on such a level that human minds cannot comprehend, to be thrown into eternal pain and suffering because he wants to?
    That is insane, don’t you understand what you are even typing?

    “God reveals himself in many ways, both empirically and subjectively (faith).”

    God has in no valid account ever shown himself.

    “Just because suffering happens in the world, doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist.”

    I must agree here, but suffering caused by “God” is unacceptable.

    “Just because a child doesn’t understand his parent, doesn’t mean the parent doesn’t exist!”

    No, the analogy of god is this.

    “A child is brought up by two people, he is told one day by some guy that secretly, his real parents are invisible, are always with him, and can do magic, they however have and never will, show themselves to him. they also created the universe, have always existed, and killed every living thing on earth barring a few of each species, because they didn’t like them.”

    “Why is it so hard to understand that we live in a world where God allows us the freedom to do great good or great harm to one another?”

    Perhaps because it looks like the world is not run by a sky daddy, and instead looks like a sky daddy is not there?
    Maybe there is no sky daddy in the first place. How is this so hard to understand.

    “If God were to intervene, He would not love us perfectly.”

    Im sorry, but if you said that to a rape victim, and also said that god was capable of stopping the rape, you would get hit so hard, you wouldn’t stand up for an hour.

    “Perfect hatred is control, as exhibited by Hitler, Stalin, etc.”

    Hitler was a christian, derp.
    And secondly, their control was not perfect at all.

    “Perfect love allows us freedom, as exhibited by God.”

    Shame you theists dont include gays, atheists, other religions, abortion, freedom of speech and factual evidence as freedom…

    “The Bible is a collection of Jewish books about humanity’s quest to understand God.”

    The bible is a disturbing book that is full of death, hatred and incorrect information.

    “So much of the reasoning I’ve read in these comments are philosophically naive and undeveloped.”

    Gah, you have the nerve to make such a statement?
    Have you not read any of the stupid arguments here that have to be destroyed time and time again? Please read more.

  32. on 16 Aug 2013 at 12:47 pm 32.Angus and Alexis said …

    *offtopic, sorry*

    Hey alex, i’m confused, did you make that IP checking website you posted?
    Didn’t you say you were a student in something, what was it again?

    *on topic again*

    Why is it that theists come here with generic names, post stupid shit, get asked questions by atheists, post more shit, say bless you, then leave like a coward?

    It really doesn’t make them look any better.

    The only theist who stays here is Stan and his sock brigade, although, he just dumb’s up the area and doesn’t understand what proof is even if it hit him in the face…

    And then there is the strange almost fetish level of addiction that theists have with the theory of evolution…
    Perhaps even worse is how they think disproving it (which is impossible, as it is already proven…) makes god real…

  33. on 31 Aug 2013 at 4:28 pm 33.Joshua said …

    God loves you; you need to get your own conscience correct before you go trying to destroy people. God loves us and He knew if we could see Him our love wouldn’t be as real as if He had to earn it over time. He wanted it that way; faith. Faith equals love eventually; you’ve rationalized it away; hope your ok with that…

  34. on 31 Aug 2013 at 4:31 pm 34.Joshua said …

    You’ve rationalized your life away; God created us because He loves us and wants our love back. And He knows if He has to earn it over time, it will be a stronger love towards Him, and that take eternal patience. If God came down and said “HI”, that would ruin so much for us and Him…

    Think real…

    Joshua Schoonover

  35. on 31 Aug 2013 at 4:42 pm 35.A said …

    G,

    Been a long time. Good to see you back and providing logical arguments again. Of course, now the personality atheist and company will claim I am you. Just a heads up there.

  36. on 31 Aug 2013 at 6:22 pm 36.DPK said …

    425.G said …

    “If 2 people look at a stereogram, one will say with complete confidence, “there is no shape”. The other will say with confidence, “there it is! Do you see it?” Both swear by what they see. The difference is in the seeing.”

    This is a great analogy that really does reflect the reality of believing in god. The fact is the stereogram does NOT contain a shape. It is just ink on a flat piece of paper. The shape is an ILLUSION, just as your god is. When your brain sees gods where you want to see them, it is the same as when your brain sees a 3 dimensional “shape” in a 2 dimensional stereogram. As you so aptly noted if you want to believe in a god, first you must believe. Once you believe, the believing part becomes much easier.
    Thank you for the excellent illustration.

  37. on 31 Aug 2013 at 7:48 pm 37.DPK said …

    435.A said …
    G,
    “Been a long time. Good to see you back and providing logical arguments again.”
    Yes, like how seeing a pattern in a stereogram prove there is a god. Hint, if “A” agree with you, it’s a sure sign your argument is bullshit.

    “Of course, now the personality atheist and company will claim I am you.”
    What is a “personality atheist”? Is that like one of your atheists who believe in god?

    “Just a heads up there.”
    You are the expert in having your “heads up there” so your should know. Fact is, no matter how much you lament… you HAVE been caught, numerous times, flat out sock puppeting in order to try to promote you own disingenuous agenda. Why are you surprised when people suspect you of doing what you’ve been proven guilty of before? “Round up the usual suspects….”

  38. on 01 Sep 2013 at 2:58 am 38.Angus and Alexis said …

    Joshua the sympathetic theist said.
    “God loves you”

    Last time i checked, he killed almost everything on earth just because he thought they were evil, if such a monster loved me, i would surely reject it.

    “you need to get your own conscience correct before you go trying to destroy people.”

    Education equals destruction?
    Wow, no wonder modern civilization is so messed up.

    “God loves us and He knew if we could see Him our love wouldn’t be as real as if He had to earn it over time.”

    You know how love is best earnt? BEING ABLE TO SEE, TOUCH, AND TALK TO YOUR LOVER.

    ” He wanted it that way; faith.”

    You keep that faith of yours, im going to keep my science, facts and common sense here.

    ” Faith equals love eventually”

    Wow, so without any contact whatsoever, you can gain love? Maybe he uses his “MAGIC OMNIPOTENCE”…

    “you’ve rationalized it away”

    Good, i git rid of santa claus and the easter bunny too.

    “hope your ok with that…”

    Indeed i am.

  39. on 01 Sep 2013 at 3:05 am 39.Angus and Alexis said …

    Joshua the sympathetic theist said.
    “You’ve rationalized your life away”

    No, i think you got it wrong.
    You have deluded your life away to a fake deity.

    ” God created us because He loves us and wants our love back.”

    And he does so by making it seem that there is no god whatsoever, and by flooding the earth and getting himself tortured…Nice god you have there *sarcasm*

    “And He knows if He has to earn it over time, it will be a stronger love towards Him”

    Obviously having more time with something makes a stronger relationship, but it helps to actually have CONTACT with something…

    ” and that take eternal patience.”

    So to love god, it takes forever?
    Therefore no one can love god, nice.

    ” If God came down and said “HI”, that would ruin so much for us and Him…”

    No, it would lead to every theist going “PRAISE DA LORD!” and every atheist getting pissed off at him for doing awful shit and appearing to be nonexistent.

    “Think real…”

    I’m right ahead of ya.

  40. on 01 Sep 2013 at 4:32 am 40.Anonymous said …

    In amongst an absolute load of nonsense, Joshua drops his biggest turd “Faith equals love eventually;”

    Yes, that’s right. If you keep telling yourself “he really loves me”, “he beats me because I deserve it”, “I’m nothing without him”, “I don’t deserve him”, “it will be worth it in the end”,

    then you are in an abusive relationship. Good for you, Joshua. Your god is an asshole.

  41. on 01 Sep 2013 at 3:54 pm 41.DPK said …

    ” God loves us and He knew if we could see Him our love wouldn’t be as real as if He had to earn it over time. He wanted it that way; faith.”

    He had no problem talking face to face with people in the old testament though… wonder why he changed his omnipotent mind?

    Seriously, do these people use one of those online bullshit generators to write these fuckin’ platitudes and double talk nonsense? Do they even THINK about what they are actually saying? By this logic, the best thing a father could do for a child is abandon him at birth, move to Alaska, change his identity and hide… THAT would be the best way to ensure that our children REALLY love us.

  42. on 01 Sep 2013 at 7:28 pm 42.Anonymous said …

    Have you noticed that having congratulated the theist “logic” little “a” has disappeared when this “logic” has been exposed as fucking nonsense? No wonder he is desperate to avoid the subject of proof for his imaginary friend.

    DPK did an excellent job at destroying “G”‘s argument (what’s next, A – H?) so let’s have another look at Joshua’s spectacular failure.

    “You’ve rationalized your life away;”

    Speak for yourself. All you did, presumably, was wait for the second life you won’t get, and talk to yourself, calling it prayer, about all the misery in the world.

    Many of us who don’t buy into your fairy tales spend life achieving things and, you know, actually helping people – not just talking to themselves about it then saying “well, it just wasn’t his will”… to heal that child of cancer; feed the starving millions; avert that Tsunami, etc.

    “God created us because He loves us and wants our love back.”

    What a selfish, egotistical, evil, asshole.

    You claim that we were created in order to appeal to this god’s vanity – and you think that’s a good thing? And we were created out of love to suffer? Are you fucking nuts?

    “And He knows if He has to earn it over time, it will be a stronger love towards Him, and that take eternal patience.”

    No, that would be an example of the Stockholm Syndrome in action.

    And how, exactly, does an entity that does absolutely fuck-all earn love? Is that why it takes eternal patience? Eternal because it’s take forever because that’s how long you wait for an example, any example, of this god’s love?

    Also, how do you know what “he” knows? Does he talk to you? Write to you? Skype with you? Leave you notes on the ‘fridge? Please tell us how you know this to be so and you are not just making it up.

    Once more, just how fucking nuts do you need to be to believe shit like that? A little, a lot, or living in an asylum nuts?

    “If God came down and said “HI”, that would ruin so much for us and Him…”

    How, exactly, how would that ruin anything?

    Proving he exists, ruining it? Behaving like he’s supposed to do in his holy book, ruining it? Doing stuff to help the people he supposedly loves, ruining it?

    For fuck’s sake, look at the nonsense are you spewing, Joshua. How can you possibly believe such shit and function in the real world?

    “Think real…”

    So why don’t you?

  43. on 02 Sep 2013 at 12:50 am 43.A said …

    “Many of us who don’t buy into your fairy tales spend life achieving things and, you know, actually helping people”

    True, its been proven time and time again atheist are the tightest most heartless people on the planet. Theist on the other hand are removing pain and suffering around the world.

    They are great and cussing, anger, hate and debating things they SUPPOSEDLY don’t believe exists. What a bunch of losers! Lol!!

  44. on 02 Sep 2013 at 1:15 am 44.DPK said …

    And the last resort of the truly defeated… Well, you’re bad and I’m good! Hahaha. I must have missed the last atheist child molesting scandal and the last atheist suicide bombing. Lol indeed.
    What a complete dickhead. Hey asshole, your desperation is showing again.

  45. on 02 Sep 2013 at 7:00 am 45.Angus and Alexis said …

    A said.
    “Theist on the other hand are removing pain and suffering around the world.”

    I think you mean mass brainwashing and causing pain and suffering for minorities…

    “True, its been proven time and time again atheist are the tightest most heartless people on the planet.”

    Nice, because there are plenty of theist assholes too. Maybe you mean those atheists that go to church and have a god?

    “They are great and cussing, anger, hate and debating things they SUPPOSEDLY don’t believe exists.”

    So you are saying that debating subatomic particles, and nuclear fusion is stupid?

    “What a bunch of losers! Lol!!”

    Can you at least ATTEMPT to act mature?
    If you are indeed a 40 year old atheist, you are one of the most ridiculous adults i have seen in action…

  46. on 15 Nov 2013 at 9:21 am 46.Abby said …

    Sorry.. but I was a believer and ruined the only job I ever had over God by trying to be faithful to him…I grew up in abuse as a child which destroyed my self worth and self esteem…than as an adult because of all of that made horrible mistakes in life and stayed in bad/abusive relationships looking for love that I never had as child….From that I attempted suicide over 15 times…only some dumb asses found me and here I am today 49 years later still suffering every single day !! I am scarred in side and outside now, have no life worth living, need healing inside and out so I can get a job, maybe get married someday and have real love,have friends and a social life etc… But NO.. God will not heal me ? Really ? The family and people who harmed me have blessed lives and everything I have ever hoped for while I have nothing but scars and pain to bare alone everyday ! Church never helped me, studying the bible or praying either for that matter..and yet I still tried to believe in God.
    Now I look at this world and the suffering in it and believe God has so much to do with it ! TRUE love is caring for someones well being and wanting the best for them and doing what you can to help them. God never does that ever for me ! If he loved me as the bible says..why am I still suffering and why is God holding back the healing I so desperately need from me ? Does not not see me and hear me everyday ? I am going to end my life if healing does not come very soon !I cannot live this any longer ! Does God care about that enough to help and heal me ? Does he want me to die ? Why is he blessing those who caused me so much harm and not blessing me ? All the stuff I was taught about God loving me cannot be truthful ! I would not hold back those things from some I love or care for ! In the beginning faith comes from hearing the word as the bible says….but faith dies when those words are meaningless and empty ! My faith is almost gone now ! I have tried to be faithful to God…but he has not to me. He is supposed to be perfect…I am not and only a human….but even then I tried to be faithful best I could.When is God going to show me perfect faithfulness by him…shouldn’t he be our example ?
    God is not being a good example. In the bible Jesus healed so that people may believe…. Jesus heal me so that I may believe also..an if not it would be your fault I don’t any longer and your fault if I end up in hell !

  47. on 15 Nov 2013 at 9:39 am 47.Abby said …

    Also if you ever watched Christian TV shows have you ever noticed how all the women who boast of God..are so beautiful and so perfect…great hair , cloths, makeup and seem to have these great lives and so much confidence etc… most grow up in good homes and well to do homes compared to what I grew up in.No wonder they believe in God so much and can boast about him… I would too if I had beauty and a great life also !
    What about Job in the bible who was filthy rich and had so much more than everyone else…no wonder he loved God so much…look how much he was blessed all his life ! When he had to loose it all and suffer it was only right he still worship God after all God gave him ! But what about people like myself who have had nothing but hardship and pain all their lives..am I supposed to have faith like Job ? Job was an old man who lived a long amazing life of prosperity thanks to God..he has no right to complain when it got bad for him…as for me I never had it good and have no reason to be grateful or faithful ! Like all those Christians on TV who seem to have all that faith to brag of God…. they have it all….well I have never had anything good through life but pain and heartache so I do not have anything to boast about God for ! Give me what those women have ( beauty etc…) and I will boast about God also !

  48. on 15 Nov 2013 at 9:51 am 48.Abby said …

    God punishes the innocent for the guilty also ! After King David (pervert sinner and male tramp who sleeps with all his many concubine) sleeps also with Bathsheba ( tramp who likes to bath in the open where everyone can see her when her husband is off fighting wars) then David has her husband murdered , commits adultery and has a child from it..God kills the child to punish them for their sins..than gives them another child after who also becomes a King ! Holy crap !!!!
    How many of us who God ignores when we pray for something have done that bad of stuff and committed the grave sins they have ? None of us… and yet God blesses them and not us ? King David was an ass !

  49. on 15 Nov 2013 at 3:16 pm 49.Angus and Alexis said …

    Ummm…maybe because he does not exist?

  50. on 16 Nov 2013 at 2:54 am 50.Abby said …

    I am beginning to believe that myself ! Funny though how Christians have this list of excuses for God for just about EVERYTHING ! I think I have heard them
    all ! I just watched a movie Called ” God on Trial”..it is about Jews in a concentration camp having a mock trial.If God was real he would be found guilty ! He would be the greatest sinner of all as he breaks his own commandments all the time ! I would love to be able to back in history to kick the ass of the idiot who invented this God and the bible… I mean look at the horrible events in history due to the bible and Christians….religion is the cause of almost all the problems in the world and causes so much violence and harm ! Society should get together and sue the churches for the damage the lies have caused….and they should have to pay Taxes on EVERYTHING they get…no special privileges ! I should be able sue the church for all my tithe I paid to them as it was due to false advertising and lies that they got it in the first place…that should be illegal to do that to
    anyone !Just a thought.

  51. on 16 Nov 2013 at 3:28 am 51.Angus and Alexis said …

    I agree with you, christians always make excuses.

  52. on 16 Nov 2013 at 1:36 pm 52.DPK said …

    Christians, in particular, always must resort to engaging in torturous and mind bending excuses when explaining their gods behavior and the disconnect between the idea of a loving, all powerful god and reality.
    God is testing you, god isn’t answering your prayer because he has something better in store, he is teaching you a lesson, your troubles are nothing compared to the rewards you will get in heaven, your faith isn’t strong enough, and my favorite, we can’t understand gods ways, we just have to have faith and accept that everything is for our benefit. Lol. What a bunch of self deceiving bullshit. The simple answer that doesn’t require any mental gymnastics is that god simply does not exist. The reason bad things happen to good people is because things happen without regard to whether or not you worship any particular god. This is because they are all imaginary.

  53. on 17 Nov 2013 at 7:39 am 53.Abby said …

    I really like this blog site….I feel comfortable here because I am finding others who like myself are thinking beings ! I like to see things as they really are ! I don’t believe in having faith in something not real or something I cannot see, touch or hear etc…
    I don’t live in a fantasy world ! Christians do live in a fantasy world ! Maybe they cannot face reality or something and had to invent a god ? How can any normal thinking being love this god whom they have never heard audibly, or seen with their own eyes ? How can you love someone you cannot have a relationship with in real life other than reading a book about him or others talking about him ? This is loving a fantasy in your own mind…a fictional character ! Praying is like talking to the air…no one speaks back to you or relates to you in anyway ! Relationship means spending real time talking to each other and being together… so how can anyone have a relationship with a god that they cannot do that with ? It is obvious he is not real ! One thing that bothers me is this :Throughout history Christians have thought they had some right to take whatever they want as they believe their God gives it to them. Christians have stolen land from the Native Americans as they believed their God gave it to them to take…they have even killed ! They made African people slaves and so much more ! Also the residential schools and that horrible hell ! All because of Christianity ! The list goes on and on !

  54. on 17 Nov 2013 at 7:57 am 54.Abby said …

    By the way.. .to you ” year atheist ” in your above comment…Christians break their so called god’s moral codes every single day ! In fact your very god who supposedly made them does also ! Therefore making your so called god’s moral code ” relative” and not absolute ! You guys keep them only when it is convenient to ! You break them when its not !

  55. on 17 Nov 2013 at 9:43 am 55.Angus and Alexis said …

    The absolute moral garble has already been dealt with, please do not get messenger to respond with his usual garbage.

  56. on 17 Nov 2013 at 7:57 pm 56.Cassiopia said …

    Abby,

    Can you at least be honest? You are not a Christian and have never been. You may have been a theist at one time but you are now an angry atheist like so many others here.

    You have this view that if someone believes in God that makes them a Christian. Where do you get such an idea? Sounds like you might watch much TV. Its not in the Bible, but maybe you listen to other people too much.

    You also have this view that you are the only one that suffers while envying others. Last I checked, Jesus suffered quite a bit and everyone one his disciples were murdered for being a Christian. Christians today are being murdered all around in record numbers. Has your life been threatened for your beliefs? I doubt it. Life is not fair, Jesus never claimed it would be in fact he did say they have persecuted me and if you follow Jesus you can expect to be persecuted too.

    You probably won’t like my post, it is not meant to be insensitive but is meant to give you pause as to what a Christian is according to the Bible and not how pop culture portrays it.

  57. on 17 Nov 2013 at 9:59 pm 57.DPK said …

    The “no true Scotsman” ploy.
    God is always faithful to true Christians.
    God has not been faithful to me.
    You are not a “true” Christian.

    See how it works Abby? You cannot reason with a Christian, because they are willing to accept anything in order to maintain their Jesus high. If you point out that their claims are simply not true, they just claim it is because you don’t understand. If god abandons you, it’s your fault. If you get cancer and get better, god cured you. If you get cancer and die, god needed you in heaven. You can’t win by trying to talk logically to someone who has deluded themselves to a point of being completely and utterly irrational.

  58. on 18 Nov 2013 at 1:33 am 58.the hor said …

    Cass

    You can’t reason with DPK known as Dippy. They believe anyone who states they are a Christian is one regardless of what they believe. I believe the Bible states Satan believes in God too. Does that make Satan a Christian?

    lol!!!!! Careful, that is no true Scotsman! Lol!!!!

  59. on 18 Nov 2013 at 3:30 pm 59.DPK said …

    Now Hor is resorting to supporting one with mythical character by asserting the beliefs of another mythical character.
    Hor, I believe Santa Claus believes in elves. Does that mean elves are real? LOL…. you are always good for a hearty laugh.
    Hey Cass, Hor deliberately lies, misleads others about what people say and have said here (bearing false witness) continually mocks and tries to belittle people, and attempts to deceive people by continually pretending to be multiple individuals in order to try and bolster his support. He refuses to engage in any honest discussion and deliberately mis-represents facts in order to convince others he is right.
    Is he a Christian?
    He claims he is…. but I’d guess you’d think not.

  60. on 18 Nov 2013 at 9:08 pm 60.the hor said …

    “Now Hor is resorting to supporting one with mythical character by asserting the beliefs of another mythical character.”

    ROTFL!!!!!

    This is hilarious! Just resorted to the very fallacy he incorrectly attempted to call on another. That is priceless!

    Thanks DIP. Sorry, not mocking but that is quite funny! :)

  61. on 18 Nov 2013 at 9:28 pm 61.DPK said …

    ” Just resorted to the very fallacy he incorrectly attempted to call on another. That is priceless!”

    Hitting the sauce again there Stan? Sober up a bit before you start typing, you’re embarrassing yourself again… LOL…. Your ignorance is truly mind boggling.

  62. on 19 Nov 2013 at 12:43 am 62.Cassiopia said …

    Why do these type of blogs always have these argumentative guys who find their manhood behind a laptop. So DPK, you call me deluded, irrational and that I claim there are no true Christians as well as misrepresent Christianity? Then you have the chutzpah to warn me about another poster?

    Save it.

    The Hor is on point and polite to me. Just because someone claims Christianity does not mean they are a Christian according to Christ. Judas was not a true Christian. That’s not my opinion, it is fact. Believing in God is not what makes a Christian or Jews would be Christians too. However there are true Christians therefore your claim of a fallacy is bogus.

    Looks like Abby has left the room.

  63. on 19 Nov 2013 at 1:05 am 63.the messenger said …

    481.Abby, humans are not perfect.

    Life is a plan that GOD made in order to bring us to perfection.

    Every one sins, but that does not mean that they are not true Christians.

    A christian sins, but then he or she tries to not sin again.

    An Atheist or a Muslim sins, and does not try to become better.

    Christians and Jews try to improve and become kinder, more loving people.

    atheists do not care.

  64. on 19 Nov 2013 at 3:07 am 64.DPK said …

    “Why do these type of blogs always have these argumentative guys who find their manhood behind a laptop.”

    Probably for the same reason these types of blogs are always infiltrated by some judge mental, holier than thou Christian asshole who gets to decide who is a real Christian and who is not. They also get to dismiss someone’s lifetime experience with the lies that religions peddle by telling them it must be their fault.

    Messenger, you have absolutely no idea what kind of person I am, morally, and how kind and loving I am. For you to sit in judgement of me is not only huypocritical, it is decidedly unchristian. You are a bigot of the worst kind… A self righteous, idiotic one. Fuck you. You judge me to be evil because I see absolutely no reason to believe any of the claims you make about the existence of your god to be true. For that you judge me to be morally deficient, and you have no idea. Look in the mirror, douche bag. If your Jesus were real he would turn his back on you in disgust.

  65. on 19 Nov 2013 at 3:25 am 65.According to the “hor” said …

    “So DPK, you call me deluded, irrational and that I claim there are no true Christians as well as misrepresent Christianity? Then you have the chutzpah to warn me about another poster?”

    LOL!! Cass you picked up on DPK quickly. Atheists are very gullible. Anyone who is a theist they assume are Christians. Amazingly, they see themselves as ept theologians when they can’t even discern what a Christian is by definition! lol!!!

    But alas, I must come clean……I assume all atheists are Taoists! lol!!!!

  66. on 19 Nov 2013 at 7:15 am 66.Angus and Alexis said …

    “atheists do not care.”

    Utter crap.

    You know nothing of atheists, for every one is different.

    Stop being a bigot, self righteous twat.

  67. on 19 Nov 2013 at 3:26 pm 67.DPK said …

    So how about it Cass? Messenger says:

    “An Atheist or a Muslim sins, and does not try to become better. Christians and Jews try to improve and become kinder, more loving people.
    atheists do not care.”

    Is he a real christian? Since you and Hor/A/Crum have anointed yourselves the judges of who is and who is not a real christian, please tell us.
    Remember, Messenger is the same person who told us that he had actually visited heaven, spoken directly to god, and was sent here to deliver god’s word to us…. straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.
    Should we believe him, or you, or perhaps the lying shitsack “A”, or maybe even Solomon, who says you are destined for {{{HELL}}}? How do we decide which of you has the real truth and which of you are simply deluded?

  68. on 19 Nov 2013 at 6:02 pm 68.the hor said …

    “How do we decide which of you has the real truth and which of you are simply deluded?”

    Great question! Dippy, how do we know if you or Taoist atheist are telling us the real truth? Are you deluded or the Taoist? Taoist claim their version of atheism is correct……

    A real Christian? Simple, you go to the teachings of CHRIST to see if they follow what CHRIST teaches. Too logical for you? Lol!!!!

    You see the parallel there Mensa? CHRIST and CHRISTIAN…….lol!!!

  69. on 19 Nov 2013 at 7:17 pm 69.DPK said …

    ” how do we know if you or Taoist atheist are telling us the real truth?”

    I don’t really care in the least. You decide for yourself.

    Christ taught “judge not, lest ye be not judged.” You. Cass, and Messy are here judging me as to my morality and ethics, and as to whether other people here are “true Christians” or not, so to me that seems you must not be a follower of Christ’s teachings. I judge you to be not Christian.
    Jesus also said, “Go, sell all that you own, give to the poor, and come follow me.” Have you sold all that you own and given it to the poor, Hor? Why not?
    LOL… you should change you socks to Messy… it’s much more fitting.
    How come you won;t tell us if Messenger is a “true christian”? You had no trouble telling poor troubled Abby that she wasn’t. Messenger said he went to heaven and spoke to god. Do you believe he is telling the truth?

  70. on 19 Nov 2013 at 9:15 pm 70.the messenger said …

    464.DPK, you stated the following text. “a morally, and how kind and loving I am. For you to sit in judgement of me is not only huypocritical, it is decidedly unchristian.”

    Then you stated that I am a “bigot, self righteous, idiotic one.”

    I assure you that I am not a self righteous, idoit, or a Bigot.

    I can tell how moral you are, just by reading your comment.

    You are hateful and hostile towards me.

    I am not a bigot towards you. I do not hate you, I hate your ideas.

    Catholics and Jews live by a specific written moral code, therefore I know how loving and kind they are.

    Atheists do not live by any written moral code that I know of, therefore I do not know what they believe in or if they are loving or kind at all.

    All people have some love in them, but Catholics and Jews are bound to their moral code and try to obey it to the best of their ability. Atheists(having no specific moral values, laws, beliefs, or teachings) are not bound to any moral law that I know of, and therefore do not hold morality to be as important, therefore an atheist can run around and do all sorts of awful acts without quilt or punishment.

    I do not hate you, I hate your ideas.

  71. on 19 Nov 2013 at 9:25 pm 71.the messenger said …

    496.DPK, “judge not, lest ye be not judged.” means that if I judge you I will be judged as well. I do not care if I am judged or not. Unlike you, I am not that sensitive.

    Jesus only said “Go, sell all that you own, give to the poor, and come follow me.” to one man. That was not a command for everyone, but for the greedy man he was speaking too. That man loved his material possessions more than he loved the poor people. That command was only for that one man, not all people.

    Concerning the heaven thing you mentioned, I already stated that was just a dream in one of my past comments, understand?

  72. on 19 Nov 2013 at 10:45 pm 72.DPK said …

    “Catholics and Jews live by a specific written moral code, therefore I know how loving and kind they are.”

    Oh Jesus, here we go again. Where is this specific moral code. Show us.
    You can’t because it does not exist.

  73. on 19 Nov 2013 at 11:13 pm 73.alex said …

    “Concerning the heaven thing you mentioned, I already stated that was just a dream in one of my past comments, understand?”

    a fucking dream? bingo, motherfucker! this is what this whole shit-ass religion is all about.

    you assholes love to quote the “not a true christian shit” because it doesn’t exist except in your own individually fucked up minds.

    give me at least 3 criteria that constitute a true christian, i dare you, motherfucker. but you won’t because you know i’ll apply the shit and pronounce all these fucked up morons as true xtian. case closed.

  74. on 19 Nov 2013 at 11:19 pm 74.alex said …

    “Taoist claim their version of atheism is correct……”

    more predictable duplicate, redundant diarrhea shit from the resident hor motherfucker. feel free to search the term atheism and paste the results, you dumbshit. show where it lists the different versions of atheism? you’ve been told countless times, but you can’t comprehend because of visions of virgens? once again, you dumbass, atheism is the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

  75. on 19 Nov 2013 at 11:28 pm 75.the messenger said …

    472.DPK, it does exist.

    The Catholics live by the moral teachings in the gospels, and the Torah.

    The Jews(brothers of the Catholics) live by the Torah.

  76. on 19 Nov 2013 at 11:43 pm 76.the messenger said …

    500.alex, challenge excepted.

    A christian must try to live by the teachings of Jesus(love,forgiveness, humility, generosity, kindness, compassion, faith, hope, and mercy.

    A christian must love all people, regardless of race or religion(in your case, lack of religion).

    A christian must believe in GOD and except that Jesus is the messiah, the son of GOD, and GOD in human form(one part of trinity).

    A christian must follow all of that.

  77. on 20 Nov 2013 at 1:48 am 77.According to the “hor” said …

    Lets look at Dippy’s claim. Does the Bible REALLY say not to judge? If so, we would need no more jails, right? Actually the Bible teaches WE WILL be judged. No, actually Matthew is teaching us how to discern how to judge, not to refrain from judging! Those who like to misuses this verse do so because they have something to hide!

    Matthew 7

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

    6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

  78. on 20 Nov 2013 at 5:44 am 78.Abby said …

    Cassiopia… I was more Christian than you ever could be !!!! Not only in how I treated others but I was also faithful to God in many things you most likely would never ever be ! You do not know me and you do not know what MY walk was with GOD ! I gave up my whole life for this god you worship….. made sacrifices you would never have enough guts to do !I proved mt faithfulness over and beyond more than you would have the guts to…so do not think you can judge me or have prejudices against me ! That just proves you are not even a so called Christian you claim to
    be ! I speak for myself and for those innocent that cannot speak for themselves ( they are in too much pain and sick from starving !)…those dying babies in the poor countries ! Your God does nothing and has no mercy on them or for them ! It is people who try to help and some are atheists with compassion !
    You would have to prove Jesus is really god and divine and you cannot ! I look at reality…and I cannot worship a God who allow babies to suffer i hunger, sickness and pain and die while he sits on his throne gloating over all the worship he gets for doing nothing for them ! Now…if you are the kind of human being that can worship a god like that maybe you should look closer at yourself and what kind of person you really are because I have way to much feelings and compassion to worship someone like that !I imagine you could worship Hitler also if he convinced you he as god ? DO NOT JUDGE ME or anyone else you do not truly know ! Get off this site !

  79. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:00 am 79.Abby said …

    Cassiopia….Why do Christians always think they are right in everything and why do they judge anyone who thinks or feels differently ? Why do you all think you are superior to everyone ? Since I do not believe what you believe would you like to burn me at the stake ?
    Does this mean I am a bad human being and evil ? Let people believe what they feel in their hearts to believe and leave us alone with your opinions ! On this site we feel differently than you do so accept it ! We have that right and our reasons and they are legit ! Tell you God in prayer that he himself if he is real has made us not believe in him !Your bible says that it is God ho reveals himself to us…and that we would not even know him if he didn’t ( in my own words but biblical )Therefore let him convince me in a way I can believe in my heart….if not it is his own fault I don’t believe. I am like Thomas….I need to stick my finger in the wounds and see him with my own eyes and see these so called miracles myself so that I may believe ! Isn’t that what your Jesus did them for ? So that they may believe ? I wasn’t there 2000 year ago and haven’t seen so there for I cannot believe !If he can heal back then….he can today also….but seems to not care to help us believe like he did for them back then !Maybe our souls don’t mean that much to him ?
    Anyway….let people have their own opinions and beliefs and you have yours…you are not always right !

  80. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:14 am 80.Abby said …

    Messenger is saying that Islam is greedy for land etc.. etc….and that they kill innocent people in his name ? Hmm didn’t Christians do this throughout history ? They stole land from the Native Americans, made Africans slaves and so many other wicked and greedy things ! Christians think that they have this god given right to steal others land from them and commit crimes of hatred in Jehovah’s name! Stop speaking like a hypocrite against others when Christians do the very things you accuse others of doing !

  81. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:25 am 81.Abby said …

    Messenger… Lot’s wife disobeyed god too many times on this earth so she deserves to die and be turned in to a pillar of salt ? Are you telling me honestly that YOU never in your life disobeyed god not even a few times ? I am sure you have many times just like Lots wife ! Beware your god is going to do the same thing to you and being a human who makes mistakes is not an excuse ! You are in big trouble ! If you preach to other you better make sure you are perfect in all things ! Jesus hates liars and hypocrites and see what you do in secret !

  82. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:40 am 82.Abby said …

    DPK asked above… when it is ok to tell a lie and that it is never right to lie for anything or you will end up in hell etc… I have a short story to tell and you decide for yourself that answer….A pastor told us at church where I used to go when speaking about lying and that commandment ..that if he and his child were in a hostage situation and his child was hiding somewhere that if the hostage taker with intent to kill his child asked where the child was hiding…he would tell the truth so as not to lie and break that commandment even if his child would get killed ! Hmm..
    seriously if you were put into that situation I bet not one Christian on here would tell the truth and let their child get killed ! You might say you would now…but being in that situation you would change your mind quickly ! There are times that you might have to tell an untruth if it means saving a life among other things ! If not your are just sick in the head ! Lets be real … it is easy to preach something but not when you end up for real in that situation yourself ! Talk is easy and cheap !

  83. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:46 am 83.Abby said …

    Thou shalt not bare false witness against thy neighbor is the commandment…..thou shalt not lie is a translation that came much later…
    Baring false witness against your neighbor could possibly mean something to do with testifying etc..
    and that you should tell the truth and not lie about someone when doing so. Really like all churches and the bible..it is up to interpretation by whomever is teaching or reading it and all churches seem to disagree with each other about everything !

  84. on 20 Nov 2013 at 7:11 am 84.Abby said …

    I was just thinking that maybe all of us who do suffer in this world ..are suffering because we are the dogs under the table as the bible says…only there are no crumbs for us under the table left !..LOL….how unfortunate for us ! Fact is the bible also says deferred hopes makes the heat sick ! If people who have suffered way to long in life do not have God to relieve them by healing them or helping them in tangible ways to bring some relief and hope…that person will become sick in many ways. I know there are other out there who are suffering..some more than me..but this does not mean I am not suffering !I grew up in abuse as a child, neglected, abandoned and unloved by my parents..my sibling did the same to me..then I was abused and almost killed by a man I had a relationship with…everyone cheated on me that I have ever been with.. I was always told I was ugly and worthless. No one stood by me in life and helped me not even in church ! Used and now totally alone in life with no one and scarred from the abuse.. I prated over and over for god to heal my scars as they kept me fro having a job and left me in poverty and depression for 20 years ! I am still in the same situation now ! I lost my job to obey god and everything I had and left with nothing god abandoned me and never even helped me a tiny bit ! I am thinking of ending my life everyday !I have no future worth anything. all my hopes and dreams are doomed already..if Jesus can hold back a simple healing from someone who trusted him and was faithful to him knowing it could change my life forever for the best and make me a better person and more productive why then does he turn his back on me ? Well he did and he didn’t care…so therefor I turned away also.. only now I do not even believe he was ever real ! I put hope in something not real ! No crumbs left under the table for me ( the dog) I guess ! If I was God I would help so many people and change their lives for the best forever !No starving children or hurting people ! You see I have compassion that would move me to do something good for them ! Action is better than words !

  85. on 20 Nov 2013 at 12:04 pm 85.Cassiopia said …

    From Abby “Why do you all think you are superior to everyone ? Since I do not believe what you believe would you like to burn me at the stake ?”

    Where did I claim I was superior? From your comments I still gather you still consider believing in God to make an individual a Christian. If that is your opinion you have a right to it, but that is not what Jesus taught or what the Bible states.

    Why are you becoming so unglued? Where did I state I want to see you burn at a stake or that Christians don’t take actions to help the unfortunate?

    Christians are always the first to respond to disasters, not atheists. Christian groups are all over the world helping the unfortunate.

    Let me make one more observation. Do you know the Scripture speaks of those who claim to be Christians but are not and they walk away? I don’t want to be considered superior by pointing the verses out so you may want to look into it.

  86. on 20 Nov 2013 at 12:53 pm 86.Angus and Alexis said …

    Cassiopia said.
    “Christians are always the first to respond to disasters, not atheists. Christian groups are all over the world helping the unfortunate.”

    To cassiopia.
    Do not worry about me, i will pray for your health and nutrition while i sit on this golden throne.
    From the Pope.

  87. on 20 Nov 2013 at 4:06 pm 87.DPK said …

    471.the messenger said …

    “496.DPK, “judge not, lest ye be not judged.” means that if I judge you I will be judged as well. I do not care if I am judged or not. Unlike you, I am not that sensitive.”

    No, you don’t get to change what it says to suit your needs. It says, “Do not judge unless you yourself are above judgement.” Are you? “Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone.” Means the same thing and shows that Jesus clearly meant that you are not to stand in judgement of others… something you do all the time with blanket, ignorant statements like all atheists and muslims are evil.

    “Jesus only said “Go, sell all that you own, give to the poor, and come follow me.” to one man.”

    hahahaha… there you go again. So when he said “Love one another as I have loved you”, that was only for the people standing around him at the moment? You’re an ass. The bible is purpoted to be god’s instructions to humanity. Why would he include an instruction meant for only one person? You are ridiculous in your self delusion.

    “Concerning the heaven thing you mentioned, I already stated that was just a dream in one of my past comments, understand?”

    Yes, I understand that you initially attempted to deceive us by lying about it, and only changed your story when it was pointed out to you that false prophets have a special place reserved in hell, closer to the furnace. Then you decided to admit it was a dream… but you KNEW it was a dream all along, didn’t you? Goes to the heart of people like you and A, who are judgmental of others, and perfectly willing to make up lies in order to convince other people you are right. You are the worst kind huckster.

    And you claim you are not bigoted? You make blanket statements like: “An Atheist or a Muslim sins, and does not try to become better. Christians and Jews try to improve and become kinder, more loving people.
    atheists do not care.” That is the ultimate form of bigotry… casting one characteristic over everyone and claiming they are all the same.

    Now as for your absolute moral code:
    The things you mentioned are not an absolute moral code, they are guidelines. There is noting absolute in them. For example, is it ever ok to kill someone? When is it ok, and when is it not ok? Is it ever ok to lie? When and when not… how do you know? If a supreme being gave us an absolute moral code, there could be no room for disagreement, no judgments, no gray area that requires you to think and make a judgement…

  88. on 20 Nov 2013 at 5:49 pm 88.the hor said …

    “Cassiopia… I was more Christian than you ever could be !!!! Not only in how I treated others but I was also faithful to God in many things you most likely would never ever be !”

    Abby you and dippy state not to judge under any circumstances. You just judged someone you don’t even know quite harshly.

    You also seem to see yourself as “Superior” to Cass who you don’t even know.

    What does “more Christian” even me? Aren’t Christians all sinners saved by grace through faith?

    Abby your are kettle.

  89. on 20 Nov 2013 at 6:38 pm 89.DPK said …

    Yes Abby… notice that no matter what you have to say, it’s always YOUR fault? No explanation as to why loving Jesus lets thousands of children die each day of starvation, sickness, cancer, and natural disasters. No explanation as to why good decent people suffer while the sickening like of hucksters like Fallwell, Robertson, and Osteen enrich themselves by feeding of the hopes and fears of the gullible.
    You are not a good Christian… simple as that!
    You are right in rejecting these people, they are evil at their very core. Self absorbed and arrogant beyond all comprehension. (see how much Jesus loves ME? He helped me find my car keys that I lost!! Praise Jesus!) And if you dare challenge them to actually provide ANY reason why anyone should believe any of their silly claims, they cry persecution and try to change the subject.

  90. on 20 Nov 2013 at 7:14 pm 90.the hor said …

    “You are right in rejecting these people, they are evil at their very core. Self absorbed and arrogant beyond all comprehension.”

    Now we have dippy judging others, and one who is dead!!!!! But they just recycle the same tired lines. Lol!!!

    Yes,I remember the celebration of atheist when Falwell died. Such a sweet, loving, wonderful group of kettles…….or are they pots?

    lol!!!!

  91. on 20 Nov 2013 at 7:26 pm 91.DPK said …

    “Now we have dippy judging others, and one who is dead!!!!!”

    I’m not claiming to be a christian, ASS… yes I judge you. In my judgement you are a despicable human being. But I don’t broaden that characterization to include all Christians. I judge you by your behavior, not your beliefs.. see the difference.

    “But they just recycle the same tired lines. Lol!!!”

    I notice that’s not an answer though… LOL indeed.

    Abby, there is a simple reason as to why god has seemed to have abandoned you. It’s not anything you did, failed to do, believed or failed to believe. It is simply because god is completely imaginary. Once you realize that you can put your anger and hurt aside and move on living a rational existence.

  92. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:30 pm 92.the messenger said …

    516.DPK, GOD puts bad things in our lives so that we will learn to overcome them and learn how to resist evil.

    Romans 5:3-5

    New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    3 And not only that, but we[a] also boast in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.

  93. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:33 pm 93.the messenger said …

    518.DPK, you hypocrite.

    You judge us all the time.

  94. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:40 pm 94.the messenger said …

    514.DPK, I didn’t change what it said, I simply put it into simpler words for you.

    Here is a better translation of that verse.

    Perhaps you will understand this one better.

    Matthew 7:1-3

    New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    Judging Others

    7 “Do not judge, so that you MAY NOT BE JUDGED. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s[a] eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?

    As you can clearly see, that verse does not mean “Do not judge unless you yourself are above judgement.”

  95. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:42 pm 95.DPK said …

    493.the messenger said …

    “518.DPK, you hypocrite.

    You judge us all the time.”

    You don’t get it, do you. Yes… I judge YOU. I’m not on here telling people how I’m a good Christian and they are not. I also don’t make blanket statements that all Christians have no morals, that they are all anything. I judge you for what you say and what you do… not by what you call yourself. You, Mr. Messenger, are no Christian.

  96. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:42 pm 96.the messenger said …

    514.DPK, I did not lie, I simply did some investigating and found no evidence to support that what I saw was no more than a dream.

  97. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:47 pm 97.the messenger said …

    I never said that I was a good Christian, although I try to be.

    I am not perfect, I know that all people sin.

    I am simply preaching about the path to overcoming evil and how true Christians try to follow the path, although they do mess up sometimes.

    Stop spreading lies about what we say and do.

  98. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:49 pm 98.the messenger said …

    514.DPK, you do not follow the teachings and morals that make a person kinder(the gospel and Torah) and are therefore not improving at all.

  99. on 20 Nov 2013 at 9:52 pm 99.the messenger said …

    514.DPK, there is no grey area, it is an absolute moral code.

    furthermore, the verse actually says the word murder, not “kill”.

    It is never ok to lie.

  100. on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:08 pm 100.DPK said …

    514.DPK, there is no grey area, it is an absolute moral code.

    furthermore, the verse actually says the word murder, not “kill”.

    It is never ok to lie.

    hahahahaha…. so when the person breaks into your house and asks you if you daughter is home so he can rape and murder her… you have to tell him the truth? LOL… what an imbecile.

  101. on 20 Nov 2013 at 10:11 pm 101.DPK said …

    So let me pose a moral situation for you Messy.
    Let’s say an out of control train is heading down the tracks and is going to hit a crowd of 100 people… likely killing them all.
    You have control of a switch that can divert the train to another track where one lone man is working. If you pull the switch, you will save 100 people, but you will kill (murder… with foreknowledge and certainty) the one innocent man. What does your absolute moral code tell you you should do? Don’t tell us what you THINK… tell us what it SAYS. It is absolute, after all, isn’t it?

  102. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:35 am 102.the messenger said …

    500.DPK, I have a house security system and a semi automatic rifle.

    He would be arrested, wounded, or dead before he got a chance to rape her. Even if he did get past all of that, I wouldn’t tell him.

    I would rather die that let someone get raped.

  103. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:48 am 103.the messenger said …

    529.DPK, if a train were coming, any railroad worker would know to immediately evacuate the tracks. Furthermore, rail road tracks are not very wide, so it would only take one or two steps to get off it. Plus I could probably contact the rail road worker in advance and tell him to get off the track, due to the fact that most railroad workers carry some type of radio(like a walkytalky with them) or a cell phone with them.

    I would then pull the lever and send the train away from the crowd.

  104. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:49 am 104.the messenger said …

    529.DPK, I wouldn’t tell him where she was.

    I would just not answer him.

  105. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:53 am 105.the messenger said …

    529.DPK, even if I couldn’t warn the worker, I would still send the train his way because it would save more people.

    It wouldn’t be murder because I wouldn’t want it to kill him, and I would be doing it to save lives, and is therefore justified, plus either way it might kill someone(unless they get off the track in time).

  106. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:56 am 106.the messenger said …

    529.DPK, I am waiting for your response, Brother.

  107. on 21 Nov 2013 at 2:16 am 107.DPK said …

    Ok, despite trying desperately to change the conditions… Moving the goal posts, you evaded showing where your absolute moral code instructs you on what to do. Instead, you tried to rationalize a way around it. “I wouldn’t tell him”. Ok, good. What if not saying anything would cause him to assume she was there, and therefore find her… But if you lied and convinced him she wasn’t there, she would be safe… Would it then be ok to lie? Hunt, of course it would.

    Now, the train problem. Again, no fair trying to change the rules. Finally, you admitted that it would be ok to deliberately kill one man to save 100. I agree, as do most people, regardless of religion or lack thereof.

    Now, let’s change the premise just a little. The train is still coming down the tracks, but there is no switch. Instead, you are on a bridge above the train with a big fat man. Tf you push the fat man onto the path of the train, he is sufficiently large enough to stop the train before it reaches the people. You are not large enough, so jumping yourself is not going to save anyone… But pushing the fat man to his death will.
    No changing the conditions… It is what it is. What does your absolute moral code say? Is it ok to push the fat man to his certain death to save the other people?
    Show how you reach your conclusion based on the absolute moral code you claim exists with no gray areas.

  108. on 21 Nov 2013 at 2:33 am 108.the hor said …

    “What does your absolute moral code tell you you should do? Don’t tell us what you”

    I’d radio the one man and pull the switch, but wait!

    Is it a fat man?

    Is the 100 atheists or theists or Hindus?

    why are 100 people on the tack?

    Do the 100 want to die?

    lol!!!!!!

    “It is simply because god is completely imaginary. ”

    sigh! Prove it……the fact you must argue SO MUCH tells us all you don’t believe your own tripe fat man…..lol!!!!!

  109. on 21 Nov 2013 at 3:32 am 109.DPK said …

    Something you want to add to the discussion, Hor, or did you just come here to mock?
    Maybe you can help poor Meesh out of the hole he’s dug for himself. Can journals show him where to find the absolute, no gray area moral code he says you Christians follow? The one that says you should never kill anyone and when the nazi’s come looking for the Jews hiding in your basement, you are forbidden to lie to them?

    If you can’t, then maybe you should play it smart and shut the fuck up and leave him twisting in the wind, like a true Christian.

  110. on 21 Nov 2013 at 3:38 am 110.DPK said …

    “What does your absolute moral code tell you you should do? Don’t tell us what you”
    I’d radio the one man and pull the switch, but wait!

    No radio. Don’t change the rules to evade the tough question.

    Is it a fat man?

    Does it matter? Is it ok to kill a fat man?

    Is the 100 atheists or theists or Hindus?

    Does it matter? Is it ok to kill atheists or Hindus? Assume you don’t know.

    why are 100 people on the tack?

    Doesn’t matter. Is it ok to let them die if you can save them?

    Do the 100 want to die?

    Does it mater? Is it ok to let them die if they do? Assume they do not, as most people don’t.

    lol!!!!!!

    LOL indeed. You’re evading? Why? Your absolute moral code should be able to tell you exactly what to do… Shouldn’t it?

  111. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:08 am 111.the messenger said …

    507.DPK, I did not change the conditions.

    You asked me “so when the person breaks into your house and asks you if you daughter is home so he can rape and murder her… you have to tell him the truth?”.

    You said that if someone breaks into my house, and fortunately my house equipt with various guns an knifes and a security system, therefore I could easily fight off any threat that comes into my house.

    I would not have to tell him anything.

    But if he did have me at gun point and asked me where my daughter was, I would say that I don’t know, and that would be the truth because I truly would not know her exact location. I would tell him the truth but not every detail.

    If he asked me if she was in the house, I would say she is not, and that would be the truth due to the fact that until I actually see her exact location she could be considered as both i n and outside of the house.

    There is always a way around lying.

  112. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:18 am 112.the messenger said …

    537.DPK, the law does not state that killing is not allowed, it states that murder is not allowed.(New revised catholic version).

    If a Natzi asked me if there are Jews in my home, I would tell him that their are none, and that would be true due to the fact that where they are currently located is classified as their home, not mine.

    In situations such as that, certain details are rearranged in classification in order r=to stay truthful and keep the Jews safe.

    In a non life threatening situation I would revert the classifications back to normal.

  113. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:26 am 113.DPK said …

    Notice readers, what the Christians here instinctively do when faced with a case of situational ethics that challenges their contention of an absolute moral code with no gray areas.
    First, they try to cheat. They try to find away around the set conditions by moving the goalposts. “There is always a way around lying.” No, there isn’t ” always a way. What if you don’t have an alarm system and a gun. What if saying nothing would harm someone, but lying would save them? Is it still wrong to lie, or is it sometimes more wrong to not lie?
    “I’d radio the msn first”. A railroad worker wouldn’t be on the tracks. These are ways they try to cheat to avoid answering the question which will prove them wrong.

    When they doesn’t work, they desperately try to change the subject. “What are 100 people doing on the tracks? ” are they atheists?

    The question you must ask is simply this… If they in fact have an absolute moral code with no gray areas given my an omniscient omnipotent bring, why can’t they just simply answer the question?
    The short answer is, the bible says not to lie, therefore I cannot deceive someone in order to save someone else. The bible says not to kill, therefore I cannot do something (pull the switch or push the fat man) that will intentionally cause his death. The death of the other 100 people is not my doing.
    The reason they cannot say this is because everyone knows it isn’t that simple, snd it is most definitely not absolute.

  114. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:30 am 114.According to the “hor” said …

    “when the nazi’s come looking for the Jews hiding in your basement, you are forbidden to lie to them”

    If Nazis come looking for Jews, I will be asking to point me in the the direction of the time machine!

    lol!!!!

    Silly Dippy, stop judging (KETTLE) the morality of others when you can’t even provide a source for your own. A dead issue you have been exposed and embarrassed on SOOOOOO many times. I mean really, arguing morality with a guy who has no capacity to evaluate morality? lol!!!

    If you are in my basement, I will count the silerware before you leave!

    lol!!!

  115. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:36 am 115.the messenger said …

    538.DPK, In a situation where a person is going to die no matter what choice you make, it is morally right to save the greater majority of people, unless they deserve to die.

    That is explained by this law: Exodus 21:13
    If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee.

    In the train situation that you gave me, either way someone was going to die, so therefore I am not murdering anyone, I am simply preventing the larger amount of people from dying and thus making the best choice in a “premeditated by GOD” death or death situation. It is justified and GOD will protect me.

  116. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:42 am 116.the messenger said …

    541.DPK,here is what I would do if I didn’t have a gun or a security security system.

    If he did have me at gun point and asked me where my daughter was, I would say that I don’t know, and that would be the truth because I truly would not know her exact location. I would tell him the truth but not every detail.
    If he asked me if she was in the house, I would say she is not, and that would be the truth due to the fact that until I actually see her exact location she could be considered as both in and outside of the house.

    Lying is not needed.

  117. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:00 am 117.DPK said …

    “the train situation that you gave me, either way someone was going to die, so therefore I am not murdering anyone, ”

    Haha, squirm squirm… No, messy the single man was not going to die… Your action will kill him. No changing the rules. You can choose to intentionally kill one man or do nothing. What does your absolute morality say?

    You Do know her exact location, you know where is is, you must lie to save her. Saying nothing or telling the truth will result in her harm or death. Squirm squirm…. Maybe you mean to say “well it depends on the circumstance. ” I may have to lie if it is for a good reason? That’s not absolute.

    Hor, time machines now? That’s your ploy? Why can’t you answer the questions?

  118. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:15 am 118.DPK said …

    Ok, messy has at least made an attempt to answer the question.
    He believes it is morally right to pull the switch and kill the one person in order to save 100 people. Good. I agree, as do most people.

    Now answer the second question. If you needed to push the man off the overpass, against his will, in order to save 100 people… Is that ok?

    Ignore Hor, he is desperately trying to change the subject so you don’t answer.

  119. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:26 am 119.the messenger said …

    517.DPK, It is morally right, according to biblical law and teachings, to kill in order to save another life or the majority of lives.

    It is not murder though because no matter what choice I make, someone would die, and I would be averting the threat away from the larger population thus saving many lives, that is justified by Biblical laws and teachings and is not considered murder because I would not want either side to die, but I would rather the larger amount of people live.

  120. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:32 am 120.the messenger said …

    545.DPK, how would I know her exact location or if she is in the house or not with out actually seeing her?

    If I could see her then the burglar would be able to see her as well and then lying or not wouldn’t make a difference because by then I wouldn’t be able to prevent him from raping her.

  121. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:37 am 121.the messenger said …

    546.DPK, brother hor has a good point.

    God made these laws for us to live by in real life situations, therefore if you wish to have a logical debate about this you must provide possible scenarios to use. unrealistic ones do not count.

  122. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:41 am 122.the messenger said …

    546.DPK, if the 100 people were murderous and very sinful, and the one man was a honest, kind, righteous man, then it would be morally right to save him instead of the 100 people.

  123. on 21 Nov 2013 at 7:37 am 123.Angus and Alexis said …

    Great, so messenger is a murderer…

  124. on 21 Nov 2013 at 12:02 pm 124.According to the “hor” said …

    Now suppose the 100 on the track were aliens with superpowers, then you let the train hit them. Then I would beam up the one man on the track to save him from the aliens. Problem solved.

    The man with the gun? As he is adjusting the grip on his gun I pull my .44 and disarm him. I take the two guns and hold the nazis captive. Problem solved.

    There you go, playing by the rules….making up my own scenarios. lol!!!

    Butterfly, stop judging. You are the pot! lol!!!

  125. on 21 Nov 2013 at 1:45 pm 125.DPK said …

    on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:41 am 523.the messenger said …
    546.DPK, if the 100 people were murderous and very sinful, and the one man was a honest, kind, righteous man, then it would be morally right to save him instead of the 100 people.

    Good answer. So what you are saying is it depends on the circumstances. Right?

  126. on 21 Nov 2013 at 1:47 pm 126.DPK said …

    Hor, I know answering anything honestly is impossible for you.

    Why wouldn’t you just say a prayer and leave the whole
    Situation up to god?

  127. on 21 Nov 2013 at 2:51 pm 127.DPK said …

    Now messy, answer the 2nd question. You have told us that your absolute moral code with no gray areas tells you to deliberately kill the one man in order to save 100…. Unless, (oops! There goes your no gray area condition) the one man is righteous and all the others were evil. So, what you are saying is that it is morally ok to kill 100 evil people to save one good person.

    Ok… Now what about scenario 2? You still must kill one to save 100, but this time you have to physically push a man against his will off a bridge to his certain death.
    Assume you know nothing about him, or his character. He is just a stranger.

    No fair changing the rules to avoid making a determination. You claimed to have an absolute moral code that tells you exactly what to do…. The way you are waffling and trying to change the hypothetical situation to suit you tells me you are not able to produce this absolute code. This isn’t about me, it’s about you.

  128. on 21 Nov 2013 at 4:45 pm 128.the hor said …

    “No fair changing the rules to avoid making a determination”

    No fair? Lol!!!!! Dippy makes up stupid scenarios involving fat men and Nazis and all of us MUST play by his rules…..AND get this Mess, He and HE alone gets to determine if what you would do is moral.

    Now, what is his moral code he bases his conclusions on? His opinion of course. The ultimate in arrogance.

    lol!!!!

  129. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:27 pm 129.DPK said …

    529.the hor said …

    “No fair changing the rules to avoid making a determination”

    No, we are just examining the functional claim that there is an absolute moral code that determines what is right and wrong as you and messy have claimed.

    The fact you don’t like a scenario only demonstrates the falseness of your claim? Don’t like Nazi’s? Nazi’s existed and hunted people to kill them. Fact. Good people hid them and lied about it. Messenger says that is wrong. I take it you disagree? So, it happened in recent history.. so what? Substitute African warlords if you like. Doesn’t matter. The point that terrifies you is that there are time when it is wrong to lie and times when it is better to lie. There are times when it is wrong to kill, and times when the situation requires it, and it is entirely possible for 2 honest (I know they lets you out), intelligent and moral people to disagree about it. Because your morality is not absolute, and it is not god given. The simple fact that you steadfastly refuse to answer the questions is ample proof of that.

  130. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:50 pm 130.the hor said …

    “The point that terrifies you is that there are time when it is wrong to lie and times when it is better to lie”

    It is terrifying? Oh no! Help me dippy! Tell me when I should lie and when I shouldn’t. I need you great wisdom. Could you point me to your code that I can follow?

    I no longer want to be terrified, especially if these African warlords. Lol!!

  131. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:51 pm 131.DPK said …

    BTW… I am not making any moral judgements here at all, and I am not “determining if what you do is moral or not”. I am just asking you to show us what your absolute moral code says. All you try to do is change the situation so you can avoid answering the question. Transporter beams, aliens? How desperate ARE you?

    LOL this keeps getting better and better watching you try to wriggle and squirm… time machines!! hahahahahaha!

  132. on 21 Nov 2013 at 5:54 pm 132.DPK said …

    “It is terrifying? Oh no! Help me dippy! Tell me when I should lie and when I shouldn’t. I need you great wisdom. Could you point me to your code that I can follow?”

    I am not the one offering an absolute moral code there Hor. That would be um.. you. Now you resort to trying to reverse the burden onto me? You really are getting quite desperate now… It’s ok. We know why. Your claim is false. If it were true you would have no trouble answering the simple questions. But instead all you do is squirm and wiggle. LOL indeed.

  133. on 21 Nov 2013 at 10:34 pm 133.According to the “hor” said …

    “I am not the one offering an absolute moral code there Hor.”

    Oh No!!!! Then how will I know when it is OK? How will I know if I should kill the fat guy or skinny guy?

    Do I ask Richard Dawkins’? He claims to be an ethicist.

    Maybe I should ask the atheist here who said parents who teach kids about God should be jailed?

    Maybe the atheists who support killing babies hanging 50% outside the womb?

    What about atheist in China and Russia who murder gays and Christians?

    Such a tough choice? Who to ask? Awww, it doesn’t matter, nothing is immoral, its all just relative.

    LOL!!!!!

  134. on 21 Nov 2013 at 10:48 pm 134.DPK said …

    “Oh No!!!! Then how will I know when it is OK? How will I know if I should kill the fat guy or skinny guy?”

    Well, you are the one who claims that there exists an absolute moral code, so why are you asking me?
    You’re so funny. You can’t answer, can you?

    Why not????

    LOL… your desperate attempts to divert the conversation are so pathetic. Messenger says you can kill the one man to save the 100. He won’t answer if there is a difference between pulling a switch and pushing him to his death with his bare hands. What if instead of a man, it’s a mother with a young baby who must die to save the 100? Does that make a difference? Is it just a matter of numbers, or is it who is involved? What if you had to kill 80 to save 100? Is that still ok? What does your god given moral code say?
    You say it is absolute, and leaves no gray areas… what’s the problem?

  135. on 21 Nov 2013 at 11:06 pm 135.DPK said …

    Notice readers, 2 things… Messenger, who has a habit of posting 12 posts in a row and then impatiently demanding immediate answers from others, has stopped responding… presumably while he consults his priest or minister as to what he should say next.
    Hor/Ass/Crum has tried everything he can think of to change the conversation so he doesn’t have to answer the simple direct questions. He thinks that everyone is too stupid to notice that he is unable to answer.
    He will now disappear and another sock puppet will appear and try to sidetrack things….. watch.

    For what it is worth, the train scenario is a well known study in situational ethics. When a broad cross section of people of various faiths and nationalities were queried, the results were surprisingly similar. Almost universally the vast majority of people said that in scenario #1, it would be morally correct to pull the switch and kill the single man in order to save the multitude. This was across all religions and even those who were agnostic or atheistic.
    In scenario 2 however, the majority of people said that it was not morally acceptable to PUSH the fat man to his death to save the others. Curious, because both scenarios have the same ultimate outcome… the single man is sacrificed to save the many. The only difference is the mechanism of the execution. This is across all religious and non-religious segments of the population. Why the difference? Who knows, but it definitely exists.

    So much for the idea of a god given absolute moral code. Since the outcomes are the same, an absolute moral code would always be the same for both scenarios.

  136. on 21 Nov 2013 at 11:49 pm 136.the messenger said …

    525.DPK, it does depend on the situation.

  137. on 21 Nov 2013 at 11:53 pm 137.the hor said …

    How fat is the fat man?

    Is he Stalin?

    How do we know pushing the fat man will gain desired results?

    Is he a Nazi or African warlord?

    Hey! Can we ask his preference?

    can we call Richard Dawkins?

    Suppose he is too fat to push?

    My fellow readers I implore you. Let us all request Dippy answer these relevant questions!

    lol!!!

  138. on 21 Nov 2013 at 11:54 pm 138.the messenger said …

    555.DPK, the law states that if a innocent person is in danger, it is alright to kill the evil people in order to save the life of the one righteous man.

    If both, the one man, and the 100 people are good, the majority must be saved.

  139. on 22 Nov 2013 at 12:03 am 139.the messenger said …

    555.DPK, I would trust in GOD and I would push him on to the tracks and pray that those people were good.

  140. on 22 Nov 2013 at 12:10 am 140.Angus and Alexis said …

    “555.DPK, the law states that if a innocent person is in danger, it is alright to kill the evil people in order to save the life of the one righteous man.
    If both, the one man, and the 100 people are good, the majority must be saved.”

    Congratulations, you broke the law.

    Prepare a life sentence.

  141. on 22 Nov 2013 at 12:13 am 141.the messenger said …

    555.DPK, the laws in the bible were made by GOD for us to use in real life situations.

    Please provide Possible situations to use in this debate.

    The fat man situation would never happen in real life, because a train would not be stopped by a fat man, and I would not be able to push him.

  142. on 22 Nov 2013 at 12:25 am 142.the messenger said …

    557.DPK, it is good to hide the jews from the natzis, but it is wrong to lie.

    I provided ways to not lie and still keep the natzis from knowing that jews are in your house.

    Lying is not necessary.

  143. on 22 Nov 2013 at 1:14 am 143.the messenger said …

    534.DPK, the law states that innocent people must be saved before the bad people.
    I would save the mother and her baby by sending the train towards the 100 people, unless they had babes too.

  144. on 22 Nov 2013 at 1:16 am 144.the messenger said …

    563.DPK, morals extend past life or death situations.

    Such as everyday life.

  145. on 22 Nov 2013 at 1:34 am 145.the messenger said …

    563.DPK, the moral code that GOD made, supports the following.

    In both situations, it would morally right(according to the laws in the bible) to save the 100 people and the people on the train by killing the one worker and the fat man, unless the 100 people and the people on the train were evil and the fat man and the worker were good, then it would be morally right(according to biblical law) to save the one worker and the fat man instead of the 100 people and the train passengers.

  146. on 22 Nov 2013 at 2:17 pm 146.DPK said …

    I see. So your absolute moral code says it is better to deliberately kill one person in order to save several, unless it is a mother and a child, of course, but first you have to make a judgement as to whether the single man is good or band, and whether each of the 100 people are good or bad.
    That’s hardly absolute, since you have to make a judgment. Lol.

    Silly messy, you are proving my point with each rambling incoherent post. But at least you get credit for having balls enough to try and answer honestly. Notice Hor would not do so, instead preferring to dodge and weave to avoid looking foolish.

  147. on 22 Nov 2013 at 2:36 pm 147.DPK said …

    Perhaps poor messenger does not understand the definition of “absolute”.
    Here it is mess: “viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things; not relative or comparative.”

    We have asked you to explain how the absolute morality provided by your god applies in a hypothetical situation. With every answer you first tried to change the conditions, then proceeded to add a bunch of conditions; well, this, unless, this, then, that…. And so on and so on. That is the very definition of “relative” not “absolute”.

    So, your religion, at best, provide you some relative moral guidelines that you use to make a judgement about what is the moral or ethical thing to do in a particular situation.
    These guidelines, like “be kind to others” “don’t take what doesn’t belong to you” and “don’t kill anyone” are simple ideas that children understand intrinsically by the time they 2nd grade. And they transcend religion and culture. You don’t need a bible to know it is wrong to steal. But your biblical code is clearly not absolute, it is not superior, and it is clearly not provided by some omniscient perfect being.

    By the way, you may be interested to know that the vast majority of people conclude that morally it is not ok to push the fat man off the bridge, even to save the crowd. And, legally, that would be considered murder…. Because in scenario one, your intention was to divert the train, and the mans death was incidental. In scenario 2, your intention was to kill the man.

  148. on 22 Nov 2013 at 6:00 pm 148.the hor said …

    “You don’t need a bible to know it is wrong to steal.”

    Then how do we know? You and your atheist buddies have admitted it is OK to steal sometimes.

    When?
    How much?
    From who?

    Watch this everyone! This will be good! I’ll get the popcorn!

  149. on 22 Nov 2013 at 6:03 pm 149.the hor said …

    PS”. I have gotten the popcorn before. DIppy will not answer but will just criticize Bible/God/Christians….etc. Anyone with solid morals who helps others around the world…

    …..Sigh……

  150. on 22 Nov 2013 at 6:14 pm 150.DPK said …

    Of course I will answer. Unlike you, who NEVER responds to direct questions… I answer.

    “You and your atheist buddies have admitted it is OK to steal sometimes.

    When?
    How much?
    From who?”

    It depends.
    Now, based on your absolute moral code of the bible, do you contend there could never, ever be a time to take something that does not belong to you?

    Do you agree with Messy that it is ok to push the fat man from the bridge, against his will, to his certain death in order to save more than one other person?

    Do you agree that if you judge the other people to be “bad” then it is ok to let them die instead of the fat man who is good?

    Show us what your absolute moral code says please. I’ve had my popcorn ready for quite a long time now….

  151. on 22 Nov 2013 at 6:31 pm 151.DPK said …

    Readers:

    Here is the thing, and why Hor won’t answer…
    He and Messy both claim that their actions would be dictated by an absolute moral code found in the bible.
    So, if he disagrees with Messy, that means the moral code is not absolute, but relative, because they have both consulted the code and come to 2 different conclusions. This is not possible if there is an absolute moral code.

    On the other hand, if he agrees with Messy, that one must weigh the circumstances and make an individual judgement and decide for yourself what is the right thing, than that means the moral code is not absolute, but relative, because the value of lives depends on making a judgement on the relative value of another human being.

    So, he is fucked either way. That is why he will instead ignore the question and try to focus on fat men, transporter beams, time machines, Richard Dawkins, evil atheists, and any other garbage he can try to throw in the pot to desperately try to divert attention from the fact that the code of absolute morality he claims to live by is as completely imaginary as his god.

    The proof is in the pudding… let’s see if he will answer the direct question, as I have.

  152. on 22 Nov 2013 at 7:01 pm 152.Bobby said …

    I am kinda new here, and have been following some of the threads with interest.

    While I would basically describe myself as a believer, I have to say it has been interesting to watch DPK completely dismantle messenger’s position over and over. The bible’s messages always have to be interpreted and we each have to decide for ourselves what is right and wrong. That is why we have so many different religions based on the same holy book. I really don’t see any way around that. The bible says “Thou shalt not kill”, but everyone knows there are times when it is permissible to kill. Same with lying, stealing, etc. It always has to depend on the circumstances. The bible also give instructions about owning slaves, and everyone knows that isn’t right, so you can’t take it as an absolute set of rules. Each person must decide for himself, in good conscious, what is right and wrong. I mean even ministers can’t agree on things like gay rights, some oppose it, some are for it.

    To “the hor”, if your goal is to promote your faith in God, you aren’t doing a very good job, I don’t think. I believe in God and his goodness, but it is pretty obvious to me that you always avoid answering questions and just try to sound superior and make fun of people without actually engaging in any honest debate. If I was on the fence about my beliefs, I don’t think you would do much to win me over to your side. All I can say is that at least the atheists here present their ideas logically and defend them. All you do is try to mock people and call them names. Just some advice from someone who cares, “LOL” is not a rebuttal, and when you do that, it makes people think you probably don’t have any actual answer to the problem. Not all questions regarding faith in Our Lord have answers. Sometimes you have to admit that all you have is faith, and that has to be enough. I can certainly understand if it isn’t enough for some people though, and I don’t mock them or make fun of them for it. I don’t think Jesus would do that either.

    I just wanted to give you all some perspective from someone of faith who is observing this without getting sucked into an argument. Peace.

  153. on 22 Nov 2013 at 7:46 pm 153.the hor said …

    “It depends.”

    There you go.

    1. Dad should I steal?
    2. Sure son, just remember, it all depends

    lol!!! Yes, great advice there Dippy.

    Bobby,
    If you are not one one of the may sock-puppets of the atheists, go to a thread where this has been discussed to death.

    The fact you think Dippy proved anything with his little scenario makes me doubt your truthfulness.

    Did Dippy prove no absolute moral code exist? Absolutely (lol) not! Regardless of the actions, that in no way impacts absolutes.

    When Nazis come to my door, I will let you know my actions. Lol!!!

    Secondly I am not the hor. They insist I am about 8 different posters, so I play along.

    And yes, I come here to laugh Bobby. Its a blog my friend, not real life, its funny and you should enjoy. I gave up being serious LONG ago. But hey, you wanna take those questions seriously, knock yourself out and let Dippy rip you too! Lol!!

  154. on 22 Nov 2013 at 8:13 pm 154.DPK said …

    Hor, I couldn’t help but notice that you once again avoided answering any of my direct questions. Why is that? I answered yours. Isn’t playing fairly part of your absolute moral code.

    “Now, based on your absolute moral code of the bible, do you contend there could never, ever be a time to take something that does not belong to you?

    Do you agree with Messy that it is ok to push the fat man from the bridge, against his will, to his certain death in order to save more than one other person?

    Do you agree that if you judge the other people to be “bad” then it is ok to let them die instead of the fat man who is good?

    Show us what your absolute moral code says please. I’ve had my popcorn ready for quite a long time now….”

    No need to wait until the Nazi show up at your door… we know you’d be too cowardly to hide the Jews in your basement anyway…. the question isn’t about Nazis.. it’s about the absolute moral code you say exists… what would it tell you to do? Since you won’t actually show it to us and keep it in a secret place where we can’t actually read it ourselves, the least you can do is tell us what it says to do in a hypothetical situation. Why won’t you do that? Why won’t you simply say if you agree with Messy or not? He says it’s ok to kill people sometimes, especially if they are bad, although apparently it is never ok to lie about something. Do you agree? The bible says that you should kill anyone who worships a false god. Is that part of your moral code? What about girls who are not virgins on their wedding night? The bible says they must be killed, along with people who work on Sabbath.
    Tell us please, why you igore these rules, but would turn in innocent people to be killed to avoid lying? What makes that rule important, but the killing rule flexible?
    Really wish you would hurry… my popcorn is getting stale.

  155. on 22 Nov 2013 at 9:57 pm 155.Abby said …

    Cassiopia..I know the bible as much as you so don’t get arrogant like you know it better than others !
    I just happen to think it is full of dung ! Why are the so called Christians the first to aid those in need ? I certainly don’t need to be Christian to do that myself ! Christians do it because their bible tells them to ..they can win brownie points with god!
    I help because it is who I am ! Christian help because it makes them look good to everyone and makes them feel good about themselves also to do it ! Only the advertise it to the world…this way they might won more converts and make the church look good ! When an atheist does a good deed we do not brag or advertise as Christian’s do ! We do it without trying to make ourselves look good ! The bible teaches to do your good deeds in private so only god can see so as not to get praise by men ! Why then do you Christians advertise everything you do ? Do you think I do not know what being a Christian means ? Almost everyone of you Christians are not true Christians ! That most likely includes you ! The way you preach you much be the ideal Christian and sure to go to heaven and never sin !
    By the way..do you keep the “seventh day” Sabbath or the 4th commandment ? Not the first day..but the 7th day ? If you don’t then you are only calling yourself a Christian but truly are not as you are breaking the commandments or the moral laws of the god you worship ! The bible says that if you break even one you break them all ! of is it that you interpret that commandment in your own way to suit your needs ? Hmm ?

  156. on 22 Nov 2013 at 9:58 pm 156.the hor said …

    “Why is that? I answered yours. Isn’t playing fairly part of your absolute moral code.”

    Absolutely! You deserve an answer as credible and well thought out as you offered. You offered “It depends” to your son and that is scary.

    Daddy do I kill the Christian who owns a Bible.

    Depends son. Can to see it?

    so here it goes.

    It does not depend.

    See, want to be equally engaging. Please don’t let your child murder. It really should not depend.

    :)

  157. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:18 pm 157.Abby said …

    Someone who goes by the name ” G” claims god gives us free will and that is perfect love ? Throughout the entire bible old and new testament..god has intervened against a person or persons free will over and over
    again ! Read you bible closely buddy ! Your God breaks free will when it is convenient to him ! When you god tell us that if we do not worship or believe him we end up in hell…..but he says we have free will at the same time ? How can that be called free will ?
    Threatening a person to do what you want or else is not free will !!!!! A lot of people in this world who do good to others and make a positive difference in the world are going to hell simply because they DO NOT believe in your god or worship him ! Is that perfect love ? More like death threats! In our world that is illegal ! I would rather end up in hell for eternity with those who were like me..good people who do good things and care about others..than spend eternity with some god threatened me to believe in or else ! It seems to me you missed large portions of your bible when reading it and only see the side that you chose to see ! Your god is wicked and the creator of evil….your god even claims that statement in the bible you believe in ! I do not worship those that do or create EVIL…as I am a good person..therefor I do not worship your god who is evil and creates evil !

  158. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:18 pm 158.Arrogantathiest said …

    Hor, ever heard of the US Army?

  159. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:26 pm 159.the messenger said …

    546.DPK, I will make it simple for you.

    Innocence is the key factor in deciding who to save.

    Which ever side is more innocent than the other, the side that is more innocent must be saved.

    If innocence cannot be determined, then the majority must be saved.

  160. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:27 pm 160.Abby said …

    To :the hor…I am not claiming to be a Christian so your gods rules regarding judging does not apply to me..BUT it does to YOU ! Because of your god and his rules…no matter what we say to you…YOU cannot judge us !

  161. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:41 pm 161.the messenger said …

    575.DPK, ab·so·lute
    ?abs??lo?ot,?abs??lo?ot/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    not qualified or diminished in any way; total.

    I know the definition, and I see that you do not.

    The law is absolute, and it tells us to do certain things in certain situations.

    The fact that I must make a judgement on a person’s innocence before I make a life or death decision does not mean that the laws is changing, it means that situation is changing and I must see how the laws affect the situation after the change. The laws do not change.

  162. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:46 pm 162.the messenger said …

    574.DPK, the law says that the person that is more innocent than the other must be saved. That is absolute.

    In order for me to follow the law, I must judge the people on their morality and see which one is more innocent, then I would save the one that is more innocent.

    I do not see how that is not absolute. The law does not change, it is absolute.

  163. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:50 pm 163.the messenger said …

    579.DPK, are you on drugs?

    The absoluteness of a law does not depend on whether or not a person believes in it.

    A law can be absolute even if someone disagrees with it.

  164. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:54 pm 164.the messenger said …

    585.Abby, free will is the ability to choose, right?

    GOD does not take away their ability to choose, he simply convinces us to do what he asks of us. He does not take away our ability to choose, and therefore our free will is not taken.

  165. on 22 Nov 2013 at 10:57 pm 165.Abby said …

    to the messenger ( *in your own mind) ……When she is being raped or better yet before…you can defend her by killing the rapist and saving her from it ! Or are Christians cowards ? Would a Christian watch it take place instead of stopping it maybe by killing the rapist…like your god does everyday when babies, children and women are being raped and brutally tortured and dumped in bushes to decay ! Does your god not sit on a throne and watch ? Entertainment for him…only if I had his power I would stop it ! As for the free will idea…god intervenes many times in the bible to stop things, save people etc…etc…so the free will excuse does not work any longer ! Does he get off on watching this happen everyday ? Or because he is made up maybe he really cannot do anything at all ? I admit there was a time in my life where I took the bible for truth also..ad I used ever excuse I could to convince other of god….but over the years I came to my senses because none of the bible was ever backed up with reality in my life also I have talked to the sweetest, kindest, most loving elderly woman who has been in the church all her life and praying who has confided to me personally that NONE of her prayers were ever answered ! We are talking over 87 years old this woman is…not one prayer answered !. I have never seen god do anything to help her at all ! Unless I was “the help” ?..and I was the only help ! The entire church or churches did nothing at all for her..not even call to check up or offer any help or support to her ! Here I am.. “the atheist” who had compassion and helped everyday and even gave up parts of my own life to help her ! I was all she
    had ! Atheist are NOT selfish people..and they can be very good and carding people ! Just because you on here preach the bible etc…does not make you better people or nicer people than us who are no believers ! An atheist like myself can teach you Christians somethings about true helping , true compassion and true sacrificing for others more than some bible BS words can !
    I am an Atheist and the only one to help her out of all the churches out there and Christians that knew she was alone and helpless ! So much for the churches and Christianity ! I guess you Christians are so blessed by your god and comfortable with your lives you have no time to notice these things ! Since I can say that I know suffering and have all my life I can notice those who are also and help !
    I will help those your god ignores to help and has abandoned to suffer !

  166. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:02 pm 166.the messenger said …

    583.Abby, are you crazy?

    It is idiotic to assume that all christians do good deeds just for others to see. I do many good deeds and I never tell people that I did them.

    The bible says that we must be humble and do good deeds in private so that we will not become prideful.

    I know many atheists that are very egotistical and prideful, and only do good things when others are there to see them. Tell me, is it right for me to judge all atheist based on the actions of a few of them? If I did, I would be judging atheists just like you judge christians. You are so morally wrong.

  167. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:09 pm 167.Abby said …

    My free will “is” taken by god ! I want to be the good person that I am without believing in him or his lies ..yet I want to be left alone when I die in peace..that is my free will ! Why does he have to bother me after I die and then throw me in some hell because he is not convincing enough to me ! NO…he has taken my free will away from me ! He uses scare tactics and threats ! If someone had a gun to my head and tried to force me to tell them I loved them even when they are sick and evil or else they will shoot and kill me…. is “perfect” free will ? Do I say I love them so I can live ? Or do I refuse to say it and die? Hmm ? This is your gods version of “perfect” free will ! Not perfect or free in my eyes !

  168. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:16 pm 168.the messenger said …

    565.Abby, the law says “you shall not murder”, and defending an innocent life is not murder, so yes, I could and would kill the rapist.

    GOD allows suffering to occur in the world so that we will learn to oppose it, combat it, and overcome it.

    GOD does not enjoy it, but he know that it is nessessary to perfect us morally.

    GOD feels the pain of all mankind’s sins all at once, and he died so that we will overcome our sins and eventually go to heaven.

    GOD died for us, and he suffers more than any one, and he does it for us. Be grateful.

  169. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:25 pm 169.the messenger said …

    595.Abby, you are so confused.

    GOD forgives our sins, and will let you into heaven whether you believe in him or not. Hell is only for hateful, prideful, evil men who feel no remorse for their sins.

    GOD does not threaten you or anyone, he simply warns us of what will happen if we are hateful , murderous, or sadistic. People who are murderous, sadistic, and hateful deserve to be put into hell. Hell is not forever, it is temparary, and they will leave and go to purgatory after they have paid their punishment, then in purgatory they will be given another chance at being kind, loving, humble, and forgiving.

    One sin will not put you into hell. It is actually quite hard to get into hell, because of how forgiving and merciful GOD is.

  170. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:38 pm 170.the messenger said …

    575.DPK, the moral laws of the bible could not have been made by a human.

    Take the pagans for example. They had human sacrifices, cruel and hateful attitudes toward each other, and persecution of different races.

    The pagan religions promoted murder and hate. They only stopped when Judaism and christianity began, and they were converted.

    Out of millions of religions, the only one that says “love your neighbor” “Do not murder” “Do not see revenge” “do not lie” and do not steal, is the jewish and christian religions.

    Without The Jewish, Christian religion, we would still be murdering and gutting people on stone alters and eating them.

  171. on 22 Nov 2013 at 11:47 pm 171.DPK said …

    “Daddy do I kill the Christian who owns a Bible.
    Depends son. Can to see it?
    so here it goes.
    It does not depend.”

    Ok let’s go with that.
    Daddy, can I kill the Christian with the bible?
    Me:
    It depends, why do you think you want to kill the Christian, son?
    He is preaching at me at annoying me.
    No, son, that is not a reason to kill anyone. That would be wrong.
    Me #2
    Daddy, can I kill the Christian with the bible?
    It depends, why do you think you want to kill the Christian with the bible son?
    He is running through my school with a bible and an AK-47 shooting kids. I got this gun off a dead policeman and I have a clear shot. Is it wrong to kill him?
    No, son. Shoot the fucker.

    See how that works Hor.

    Now let’s look at your scenario.
    Daddy, can I kill the Christian with the bible?
    No. The law is absolute. Thou shalt not kill. Don’t you have a transporter so you can just beam him out of there?
    No, daddy, I don’t have a transporter. But, he has already shot all my friends and if I don’t kill him, I’m afraid he will kill me next.
    That’s ok son, no exceptions for circumstance. Be happy, it means you’ll get to meet Jesus today. Now stop bothering me with these stupid questions. Lol!

    You are such a complete imbecile. No wonder you never actually engage in an actual debate. You are a functional idiot. Lol!

  172. on 23 Nov 2013 at 12:00 am 172.the hor said …

    “See how that works Hor.”

    YES, yes I so. You make up the rules, so doe we all call you when we must make a tough decision?

    Hey, in S Korea, they do kill Christians with Bibles. Its against the law. is that OK or not? Why?

    chirp chirp chirp……lol!!

    Bet he runs again….. getting the popcorn…

  173. on 23 Nov 2013 at 12:08 am 173.DPK said …

    Hey, in the bible, they kill people who work on Sunday, disrespect their parents, worship false gods, and practice witchcraft. Is that ok? Where is that rule?

    To answer your question, I don’t know if it is ok to kill Christians in South Korea. It would depend on what they were doing. If they were in the process of say, shooting people, then sure. You don’t provide enough information to make a judgement. Because, like I said, it depends.

    Btw, I feel very sorry for your kids, if you have any, in case they ever need to depend on you to protect them.

  174. on 23 Nov 2013 at 1:06 am 174.the messenger said …

    571.DPK, have you lost your mind?

    The law of GOD says that we are only allowed to intentional kill a person if it in defense of our life or someone else’s.

    We are not allowed to kill people just because we want to.

  175. on 23 Nov 2013 at 1:13 am 175.the messenger said …

    599.DPK, the law does not say “thou shall not kill”.

    It says “you shall not MURDER”.

    If a person is threatening your life or someone else’s then it is alright to kill him/her.(but only if the person is threatening your life or someone else’s).

  176. on 23 Nov 2013 at 1:20 am 176.the messenger said …

    601.DPK, Jesus revealed in the new testament that the stoning verses are metaphorical, therefore your entire arguement is invalid.

  177. on 23 Nov 2013 at 1:23 am 177.According to the “hor” said …

    “I don’t know if it is ok to kill Christians in South Korea.”

    Of course not, all you have is opinion. What part of Christians are killed for having a Bible in S Korea don’t you understand? Happened just two weeks ago.

    Then again, under your system it is all opinion so how could you possibly tell S Koreans it is wrong, right Dippy? All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

    I have exposed and embarrassed you here badly before. You don’t want to go here Dip.

  178. on 23 Nov 2013 at 1:24 am 178.Angus and Alexis said …

    If a guy has a gun to your head, and will most certainly try to kill you, then you shoot him, it IS murder.

    Murder is defined as the deliberate killing of a fellow man.

  179. on 23 Nov 2013 at 2:05 am 179.DPK said …

    Ass, you are so funny, and a legend in your own mind.
    You didn’t ask me if it was ok to kill Christians in South Korea FOR having bibles. You asked me if it was ok to kill Christians WITH bibles. Of course it’s not ok to kill someone for owning a bible, unless, of course, they are beating someone else to death with it! Even then, you kill them to stop them from killing someone else, not for having the bible. You are so funny. For a “science guy” you are very easily confused.
    It’s not like they are killing people over there for being witches, like the Christians in Africa do, or for working on Sundays, like god instructed people to do in the bible, or anything. Geez, your acting like those atheists who believe in god are putting together roving death squads and inquisitions like the Christians used to have! Lol…

    So, if your Christian with the bible was in the school shooting kids, it’s not ok to kill him?
    Ok… Glad you aren’t in charge our school security anywhere. Lol.
    Btw, messy disagrees with you. He can think of lots of scenarios where you can kill someone. I guess maybe his bible has a different absolute moral code than yours, huh? Imagine that. Thank god we have you to tell us what god “really means”.
    There is really no limit to your arrogance and stupidity, is there?

  180. on 23 Nov 2013 at 2:13 am 180.the messenger said …

    578.Angus and Alexis, this is the definition of murder, it differs from your false one. It is lawful to kill in defense of a human life, therefore it is not murder to shoot a guy that has a gun pointed to your head.

    mur·der
    ?m?rd?r/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

  181. on 23 Nov 2013 at 2:16 am 181.the messenger said …

    607.DPK, the law does not say “thou shall not kill”.
    It says “you shall not MURDER”.
    If a person is threatening your life or someone else’s then it is alright to kill him/her.(but only if the person is threatening your life or someone else’s).

    The law of the bible does not say “thou shall not kill”.
    It says “you shall not MURDER”.
    If a person is threatening your life or someone else’s then it is alright to kill him/her.(but only if the person is threatening your life or someone else’s).

  182. on 23 Nov 2013 at 2:39 am 182.Anonymous said …

    It’s obvious that the hor follows bible morality to a tee. Maybe keeping slaves and beating his wench when she fails to be adequately submissive?

  183. on 23 Nov 2013 at 4:30 am 183.DPK said …

    Messy, Hor disagrees with you, not me. I know perfectly well there are times when it is justified to take another’s life. Not many, but there are exceptions based on circumstances. Hor, your fellow Christian, is the one you should be arguing with. He says it is always wrong and never permitted.
    You and I agree that morality must always be decided in light of circumstance. No problem with that.

  184. on 23 Nov 2013 at 3:47 pm 184.the hor said …

    Dippy must have missed my previous post. Hey mousey, you feel free to answer this too! Glad you are out of hiding!

    All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

    The question still haunts you Dippy? :)

  185. on 23 Nov 2013 at 4:54 pm 185.Angus and Alexis said …

    The answer would be all of the above.
    As each reflects and persuades each other to change.

  186. on 23 Nov 2013 at 8:28 pm 186.DPK said …

    “All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?”

    Wow, interesting how you demand answers from others while refusing to provide any yourself. Smacks of an upbringing of entitlement. You’re some kind of minister, aren’t you? That explains both the depth of your brainwashing and your arrogance. Interesting.

    Now, being you are a science guy, see if you can figure it out yourself. Here is a hint. 60 thousand years ago, when the tribe next to you encroached on your hunting grounds, you went and killed them. It was not considered immoral, it was survival. Not so much today, at least not openly admitted in polite company. Something changed.
    200 years ago, slavery was considered morally acceptable in most of the civilized world, even divinely sanctioned (rightly so, if you’re a bible thumper). Today it is universally considered immoral.
    Why do you think that is, Hor?

  187. on 23 Nov 2013 at 10:03 pm 187.DPK said …

    Messy says, “Atheists(having no specific moral values, laws, beliefs, or teachings) are not bound to any moral law that I know of, and therefore do not hold morality to be as important, therefore an atheist can run around and do all sorts of awful acts without quilt or punishment.”
    “An Atheist or a Muslim sins, and does not try to become better.
    Christians and Jews try to improve and become kinder, more loving people.
    atheists do not care.”
    Then messy states: ” Tell me, is it right for me to judge all atheist based on the actions of a few of them? If I did, I would be judging atheists just like you judge christians. You are so morally wrong.”
    And the adds: “In order for me to follow the law, I must judge the people on their morality and see which one is more innocent, then I would save the one that is more innocent.”

    “A” , the one with the superior absolute morality adds:
    “True, its been proven time and time again atheist are the tightest most heartless people on the planet. Theist on the other hand are removing pain and suffering around the world.”

    Messy concludes: “I am not a bigot.”
    I think we need to change your nickname from messy to Hot Mess. You are indeed that.

  188. on 23 Nov 2013 at 11:54 pm 188.the hor said …

    All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

    The question still haunts you Dippy? This question goes backs to many other other threads where you kept dodging. Why do you keep dodging Dip?

    :), I know……lol!!

  189. on 24 Nov 2013 at 4:34 am 189.Angus and Alexis said …

    Hor, DPK did answer the question, indirectly.

    May you answer his?

  190. on 24 Nov 2013 at 7:33 am 190.Abby said …

    What bible do you read messenger ? The Catholic one I presume… as there is NO such thing as purgatory ! No where in the bible does it teach there is a purgatory ! NO WHERE ! That is totally a Catholic teaching and incorrect ! When you die the bible says in plainly that all your thoughts do perish and you return to the dust you came….it also says alot more about the topic and makes it clear when you are dead you are dead ! Yep…no purgatory ! Now I know not to listen to anything you say ! God will not and cannot help anyone become a better person or more moral person by letting them suffer over and over again with no relief or literal help ! In fact many take their lives because they cannot bare it any longer and maybe your god should understand this…people lose their minds also if pushed too far with no help or relief !The mind can only take so much suffering until a person is lost ! So if your god had any knowledge of humans and how our minds and bodies work…he should know this !
    he has allowed me to suffer all my life and I am exhausted to the point I am thinking of ending my life ! Your god only makes hate life and too tired to go on..in fact he is making me worse by holding back healing and help from me. I would never even do that to my own children. I mean how far does god push someone before he gives them a bloody break ? Maybe when it is too late and they are dead or in a mental hospital ? Personally I believe now that he cannot do anything without us humans ! Doctors heal and cure….people help and care…not your god !
    He cannot win faith and trust of people unless he is willing to heal and help them. I am not some robot for him to manipulate and control.. I am a person with feelings. Also I would like to say if there was a god.. I would prefer a female god who understands women’s needs and issues as this male god hasn’t got a clue ! people need more than just food etc… there are heart issues also that matter even more and your god cannot fill that need !

  191. on 24 Nov 2013 at 8:10 am 191.Abby said …

    messenger !! What is this BS about pagans ?
    You said : (the moral laws of the bible could not have been made by a human.
    Take the pagans for example. They had human sacrifices, cruel and hateful attitudes toward each other, and persecution of different races.
    The pagan religions promoted murder and hate. They only stopped when Judaism and Christianity began, and they were converted.
    Out of millions of religions, the only one that says “love your neighbor” “Do not murder” “Do not see revenge” “do not lie” and do not steal, is the Jewish and christian religions.
    Without The Jewish, Christian religion, we would still be murdering and gutting people on stone alters and eating them.)
    This is true of all pagans ! You are stereotyping everyone in one big clump ! Anyone who is not a Christian or Jew must be pagan right ?
    From what I know of history and facts when Europeans Christians first came to america the natives were already here…they were pagans weren’t they ? They were no violent and welcomed the Christian Europeans ! It was greed of these Christian Europeans that slaughtered them …women, children and it did not matter ! Thee native were kind and generous and very trusting ! When the Europeans were starving the natives feed them and taught them how to survive ! But…Christian Europeans came up with a way to thank them for their help and kindness….THEY SLAUGHTERED THEM ! Study your history buddy !
    Well I am at it….Christopher Columbus never discovered crap…as it was already inhabited by natives who had lived there long before they came !
    Christian Europeans brought murder, greed, hatred and evil and discrimination of different races….not the pagans !In fact I do not believe in different races…..all but the human race ! Different cultures and beliefs yes but not different races ! Secondly it was these very same Christian Europeans and secondly who destroyed a simple pure way of life for greed. Native believed simply and took care of the earth and respected all living things..sure they fought at times…but not in large scales and with such evil and greed a these Christian Europeans did..after that it escalated ! More greed, stealing land for greed and money and they didn’t care who they killed to get it ! Native Americans were slaughtered…it was genocide and by Christians who thought they were Superior..who thought the Native Americans were heathens and pagans ! if the native were left to take care of this earth and left alone…we would not have pollution and the earth being destroyed everyday ! Animals would be respected and cared for not abused as they are today ! What these Christian Europeans brought was hell..they screwed everything up and caused so much destruction and disrespect for all living things and to this earth !!!! In fact they cannot even honor treaties made with the Native Americans because they have NO INTEGRITY ! They took advantage of them because they could not understand white mans greedy ways or language…nor could they understand anyone thinking to own land which they believed belonged to the Creator an was given to them to care for ! But those dumb ass greedy Christians like to own everything not there to take…by force ! What was done to the Native Americans was evil and it was done by Christians !
    What a great job they did and what hell they brought to everyone and this world ! We would be all better off and more peaceful if you Christians had kept your greedy and evil ways and stayed in Europe ! Yous couldn’t even get along there for crap sake ! what a joke !

  192. on 24 Nov 2013 at 5:51 pm 192.DPK said …

    590.Angus and Alexis said …

    Hor, DPK did answer the question, indirectly.

    May you answer his?

    Not a chance. In hor’s world, only hor makes the rules.
    Hor, I know you want to be spoon fed a simple answer like you get from your bible (at least from the parts you pick and choose not to ignore anyway) so you don’t have to “wade through” anything that makes you actually have to think about anything… but that’s not how it works. Everything in life is not black and white, this or that. LOL. Some of it is actually complex.

    I’m surprised you got your ASStrophysicist certificate without having to take a course in sociology. Don’t they require that at Jehovah Community College? You should ask for your money back and maybe try getting an actual education. Try that, then maybe we can speak on more equal footings. Until then, a “discussion” with you is like explaining calculus to a hamster.

    Suffice it to say that you have once again spectacularly failed to demonstrate either the existence or usefulness of your “absolute” moral code, much to the delight and entertainment of the readers here. You never cease to disappoint. Well done! You are without doubt the one theist here who has done more to demonstrate the complete and utter insanity of religon than anyone else. Stellar.

  193. on 24 Nov 2013 at 6:03 pm 193.DPK said …

    Abby… Messenger professes himself a Catholic, although he continually proclaims doctrine that directly contradicts Catholic dogma. Catholic teaching is that hell is eternal, dying with a moral sin on your soul gets you a one way ticket to hell for all eternity and there is no getting out once you go in. He also denies the doctrine of Transubstantiation. From a catholic perspective, he is a heretic, and himself destined for hell. Ironic, no? His best chance rests in him being completely wrong about the god he claims to love.

    I love how he also espouses continually about free will, and with the next breath tells you that god has a divine plan and already knows everything that will happen. We have embarrassed him and Hor here about that claim on many occasions. Simply put, if I am said to have a choice between A and B, but god already knows (indeed has determined, according to the principle of divine plan) that I will choose B, then there is no conceivable way I can possibly choose A, and my “free will” is simply an illusion. For if I was free to chose A, then god could not “know” I will choose B, because that would make him wrong… an impossibility.
    It’s just another example of how deluded you must be in order to believe any of the utter nonsense they peddle to the weak minded.

  194. on 24 Nov 2013 at 6:26 pm 194.DPK said …

    582.the messenger said …

    607.DPK, the law does not say “thou shall not kill”.
    It says “you shall not MURDER”.

    Messy, aren’t you Catholic??? The official English version bible of the Catholic Church, the New American Bible specifically says “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. Look it up.

    Protestant versions of the bible say “Thous shalt not murder”, but that version also says:
    “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.”

    Have any statues or paintings of saints or angels in your church there Messy? That could be dangerous if that bible is right.
    BTW, the Protestant bible also adds:
    “For I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.”

    Maybe this is poor Abby’s problem? Perhaps your loving god is punishing her for something her great grandfather did, and it’s not her fault at all! Maybe that’s why Jesus has abandoned her? Perhaps her grandfather worked on a Sunday once.

    “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:”

    That must be it… makes perfect sense that god would punish someone for all eternity for something someone she never even met did. What a guy!

  195. on 24 Nov 2013 at 8:03 pm 195.According to the “hor” said …

    Abby, Agnus & Alexi,

    All morals all relative so nothing is immoral? Hmmm? So who decides?

    Each person?
    Society?
    Majority opinion?

    The question still haunts Dippy? This question goes backs to many other other threads where he kept dodging.

  196. on 24 Nov 2013 at 8:35 pm 196.DPK said …

    Not a chance. In hor’s world, only hor makes the rules.
    Hor, I know you want to be spoon fed a simple answer like you get from your bible (at least from the parts you pick and choose not to ignore anyway) so you don’t have to “wade through” anything that makes you actually have to think about anything… but that’s not how it works. Everything in life is not black and white, this or that. LOL. Some of it is actually complex.

    I’m surprised you got your ASStrophysicist certificate without having to take a course in sociology. Don’t they require that at Jehovah Community College? You should ask for your money back and maybe try getting an actual education. Try that, then maybe we can speak on more equal footings. Until then, a “discussion” with you is like explaining calculus to a hamster.

    Suffice it to say that you have once again spectacularly failed to demonstrate either the existence or usefulness of your “absolute” moral code, much to the delight and entertainment of the readers here. You never cease to disappoint. Well done! You are without doubt the one theist here who has done more to demonstrate the complete and utter insanity of religon than anyone else

  197. on 24 Nov 2013 at 8:58 pm 197.Bobby said …

    554.the hor said …
    “And yes, I come here to laugh Bobby. Its a blog my friend, not real life, its funny and you should enjoy. I gave up being serious LONG ago. But hey, you wanna take those questions seriously, knock yourself out and let Dippy rip you too! Lol!!

    See? As I see it, DPK did answer your question, although I think he could have been nicer about it. (Can’t you reply without being insulting DPK? Civility counts).

    But, Mr. Hor, you just ignore what he said and pretend you didn’t even hear it. How childish. And it is obvious to me that as you said, you just come here to try and laugh at people. That doesn’t really say very much for your point of view.

    As for me, I can see the bible as a great guide to living a moral life, although I can also see that it contains some very disturbing things too. That is undeniable. That is why I agree with those that say the morality isn’t absolute, each person has to decide for themselves what it means. For instance, being kind to others is great, but never doing any work on Sunday just isn’t possible in today’s world. Turning the other cheek is good advice to avoid a fight, but sometimes it’s way smarter to run away or defend yourself from getting killed, doesn’t it always kind of depend?

    Anyway, I am done here. Nobody here seems very nice. DPK, you make atheists seem very angry. I know some people who don’t believe in god who are very very nice, good hearted people. Mr. Hor, you don’t seem like the kind of person I would like to associate with either. You come off as very arrogant and obnoxious. I don’t know if you are a christian or some other type of theist, but you need to learn some humility, you aren’t winning anyone over to your side.
    Goodbye and Peace.
    Bobby

  198. on 24 Nov 2013 at 9:15 pm 198.DPK said …

    Bobby,
    If you have dealt with the like of Hor/Ass Crum for as long as I have, you would loose patience with him as well.

    I am not a nasty person at heart, but he has shown time and time and time again to be intellectually dishonest, and a truly despicable person. But you are right, I should try and take the high road and be the bigger person. He just brings out the worst in everyone.

  199. on 24 Nov 2013 at 11:46 pm 199.the messenger said …

    587.DPK, can you disprove what I said?

    Do atheists have a set moral law like christians and jews?

    Is being a true atheist determined by morals, like christians and jews?

    Can you provide any evidence?

    Your babbling must stop.

  200. on 25 Nov 2013 at 12:02 am 200.Angus and Alexis said …

    DPK said.
    “Not a chance. In hor’s world, only hor makes the rules.”

    My apologies, but my message implied that Hor should answer your questions.

    Messenger said.
    “Do atheists have a set moral law like christians and jews?”

    They are called “laws”.

    “Is being a true atheist determined by morals, like christians and jews?”

    To be an atheist, you merely need to have a disbelief in deities.

    “Can you provide any evidence?”

    Evidence of what? That the law system exists?

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