Feed on Posts or Comments 01 October 2016

Christianity Thomas on 03 Dec 2012 12:01 am

A Christian’s Perspective

The following comment appeared on this thread (#55) and offers a Christian’s perspective:

Hi im a 13 year old and I am a follower of Christ.

First off, don’t think I’ve been fed all of this from my family. I have been researching for a long time over this subject.
Secondly, I’ll be honest that this comment will have nothing to do with the text taken from the pamphlet that “proves” God is not real.

Also as I already told you I am a Christian. You may think Im poisoning your blog but just hear me out for this just once and read it. I wrote this to show you that a lot of your “proven” points disproving God cannot be scientifically proven and in my opinion, they are false. In the website connected to this blog, there are 50 points that “disprove” God. the first basically says that God lies about answering prayers. I firmly believe that this is false. My example goes like this: suppose you are in your 30’s to 40’s and either of your parents is dying or will die soon. First: where will they go after they die? Will they just go blank, their personality, mind, memories, and consiousness gone, popped into thin air? Never to be seen again? Well that sucks, doesn’t it? Think about it: You will go through the same thing. Maybe it will hurt. A lot. More pain than anyone has ever experienced. Then you pop out of existence. Doesn’t that scare you? It sure did to me. Believing in God and at least having what your mind tells you is a loving relationship with Him at least gives you hope. I’d rather have false hope than no hope at all. But back to praying, the results of praying are more often than not very gradual and are sometimes hard to notice. If you pray for your almost to the point of dying parent to become a christian, they may never accept Christ until they are about to die or they may never accept Christ. It’s their decision, ultimately. Abraham, in Genesis, was told by God he would have an heir from his own body with Sarah when he was about 75. He had to wait until he was about 99 for Sarah to give birth to Isaac. It’s a test of faith; thats another reason for prayer. It either builds up your trust in God or if you don’t see results immediately, you just pack your bags and leave. Also, in “Proof” #1, your example was asking God ONCE to cure everyone of cancer is absurd: first off, its putting God to the test; something Jesus direclty told us NOT to do after he fasted for 40 days in the desert and was being challenged into sinning by Satan, and also I don’t believe it really is God’s will that directly influences EVERYTHING. Look at the fall of man, which is the first sin committed by Adam and Eve in the Gardden of Eden: after Eve and Adam ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, they caused the entire world to be cursed: the ground was hard to work, thorns and diseases came into being, and disasters actually began to strike. It looks like God is punishing them, but He isn’t. You have to remember, before the first sin, Adam and Eve were like very young children, they did not know between good and evil. God told them they could do anything they wanted as long as they didn’t eat from one tree. Pretty simple right? Well they allowed themselves to be tricked into eating the fruit by Satan, and yes, it was their fault. they started the curses, including cancer. God doesn’t like us being sick with cancer, but he allows it because we did it to ourselves. He is not punishing us. He created a perfect world that we made imperfect, and he does not control the flow of diseases, like he does not control the orbit of the earth. Back to my example of you praying for a parent to become a christian, it istheir choice to accept Jesus, not God’s. God allows us to have choices: just like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Een. He does not want us to be mindless robots; He understands we value fairness so much and respects that. He gives us a choice between right and wrong no matter what. Maybe that dying family member will accept Jesus. In fact, Charles Darwin, the man famous for “discovering” evolution, on his deathbed rejected his entire work on the subject. What does this mean???? Anyway, I believe that in most cases God’s will is irrelevent to most situations. This is coming from a Christian! Also you said there is no scientific evidence. You are right. You probably think that my faith is kinda like believing in alternate universes. There is no scientific proof. Maybe black holes, but since no one can go to a black hole, you will never know. With God, the closest thing to evidence is how much Christianity has influenced the world. a 7th of the world’s population says that they are Christians and just because one man died from a common Roman execution for criminals, the course of history has been changed many times. Not bad for a guy that died around age 30, is it? The closest thing to scientific evidence is Christianity’s influence. Once again, look at history. Yeah.

Sorry that this was so long, but God IS REAL!!! Its not about just praying and following the rules; its about a loving relationship with someone like no other that you get to spend the rest of your life with. Its not about escaping hell, its about loving Jesus because of who he is, what he did, and his unending love for us!!!

Please, take the time to at least watch the movie The Passion of the Christ. At least a five minute clip on youtube when he’s on the cross. And if you want to continue, pray to Him. ask him if you can be in a relationship with him. Trust me: he never leaves anyone out! Then, read a gospel and join a church! (I prefer non-denominational) Thank you for reading this entire thing and sorry that its so long just think about what I said please.

Thanks so much! God bless you all! Jesus loves you

Does anyone have comments for or against this point of view?

310 Responses to “A Christian’s Perspective”

  1. on 03 Dec 2012 at 1:18 am 1.annoymous said …

    I think you need to read The God Delusion. Then get back to us. There is no way you can convince me there is some sort of god out there.

  2. on 03 Dec 2012 at 1:26 am 2.Daryl Branson said …

    Save us from 13-year-olds who are certain they understand the world. You have a lot of ideas in your post, but no substance, and most of your proof is from the Bible, which is part of what you ask us to take on faith.

    It is not up to us to prove that God exists to you. You are the one trying to convince us of a positive statement, that God exists. It is up to you to prove it. Also note that in science, the more extraordinary the claim, the more extraordinary the evidence supporting it must be, and nothing is more extraordinary than saying that there is an ancient intelligence that is everywhere, knows everything, and ultimately controls the world. Anecdotal stories about deathbed recantations by Darwin and stories about Abraham and Isaac aren’t gong to cut it.

  3. on 03 Dec 2012 at 1:27 am 3.Anonymous said …

    Comments? Almost every brain-dead Christian excuse and logical fallacy summed up in one post. It smells much like concentrated troll to be honest.

  4. on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:32 am 4.The messenger said …

    1.annoymous, God is real.

  5. on 03 Dec 2012 at 3:05 am 5.alex said …

    “where will they go after they die?”

    dust probably. “probably” is not not heaven/hell proof.

    “Never to be seen again? Well that sucks, doesn’t it”

    it sucks to be gay/woman/minority because of theists.

    “More pain than anyone has ever experienced.”

    ask the kids molested by priests. ,

    “Then you pop out of existence. Doesn’t that scare you?”

    when i die, that’s it. nothing brave about it.

    “a loving relationship with Him at least gives you hope”

    try hindu. more progressive and tolerant.

    “the results of praying are more often than not very gradual and are sometimes hard to notice.”

    exact same results as NOT prayin….

    damn… you’re full of shit. i better quit.

  6. on 03 Dec 2012 at 3:05 am 6.A said …

    “I think you need to read The God Delusion.”

    Read it. Now, what is one to take away from this masterpiece? God doesn’t exist? Alright, lay out the case.

    Feet shuffling……

    Mouth opening…..

    Anonymous back-peddling like a defensive back shifting away from the Dawkin’s masterpiece.

  7. on 03 Dec 2012 at 3:48 am 7.Lou(DFW) said …

    4.ASS said …

    “Feet shuffling……

    Mouth opening…..”

    Of which you are infinitely familiar when it comes to presenting evidence for your imaginary god.

  8. on 03 Dec 2012 at 4:06 am 8.Anonymous said …

    1100+ words in the OP and how many does “A” for asshole address?

    Zero.

    Yes, that sums him up in one word. A zero.

  9. on 03 Dec 2012 at 6:09 am 9.Anonymous said …

    “Jesus loves you” – of course he does, and according to Christian theology here’s how the Christian god loves people who don’t worship him:

    http://youtu.be/UeOTfNqis44

  10. on 03 Dec 2012 at 12:08 pm 10.A said …

    And anonymous completes the exit. Recommends a book but can’t even tell us why it is special. Non sequitur, dismissed.

  11. on 03 Dec 2012 at 1:11 pm 11.Anonymous said …

    > Jesus loves you

    If Jesus loves me, in what tangible ways does he demonstrate his love?

    How is the love of Jesus any different from random chance?

  12. on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:24 pm 12.Lou(DFW) said …

    “Will they just go blank, their personality, mind, memories, and consiousness gone, popped into thin air? Never to be seen again? Well that sucks, doesn’t it?”

    How is that any different than your existence BEFORE you born?

  13. on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:26 pm 13.Lou(DFW) said …

    8.ASS said …

    “And anonymous completes the exit. Recommends a book but can’t even tell us why it is special. Non sequitur, dismissed.”

    ASS proclaims a belief in an imaginary god, but he can’t even provide any evidence for it. “Non sequitur, dismissed.”

  14. on 03 Dec 2012 at 2:47 pm 14.Anonymous said …

    “How is the love of Jesus any different from random chance?”

    Random chance doesn’t condemn you to suffer in eternity for not believing in it; according to Christians, rejecting Jesus’s love does.

    People don’t kill millions of other humans in the name of random chance; they do, though, in the name of Jesus’s love.

    Every day we encounter random chance. Jesus’s love, not at all.

  15. on 03 Dec 2012 at 5:45 pm 15.Lou(DFW) said …

    First he writes:

    “the first basically says that God lies about answering prayers. I firmly believe that this is false.”

    Followed by an example of how prayer IS FALSE:

    “If you pray for your almost to the point of dying parent to become a christian, they may never accept Christ until they are about to die or they may never accept Christ. It’s their decision, ultimately.”

    Then:

    “…it was their fault. they started the curses, including cancer. God doesn’t like us being sick with cancer, but he allows it because we did it to ourselves.”

    Are birth defects the result of a curse? Natural disasters? Please explain.

    Also, the usual xtian/theist lies:

    “In fact, Charles Darwin, the man famous for “discovering” evolution, on his deathbed rejected his entire work on the subject.”

    and:

    “…God IS REAL!!!”

    Three exclamation marks make that much more true!!!

    He’s just a stupid kid. ASS, what’s your excuse?

  16. on 03 Dec 2012 at 8:42 pm 16.Lou(DFW) said …

    “First: where will they go after they die? Will they just go blank, their personality, mind, memories, and consiousness gone, popped into thin air? Never to be seen again?”

    Correct. What evidence do you that anything other than that happens?

    What about animals? They have those same characteristics. What happens to them when they die?

  17. on 03 Dec 2012 at 9:07 pm 17.DPK said …

    Right, where does a flame go when it runs out of fuel or oxygen? Just because you want to imagine it goes somewhere doesn’t make it so.
    You have been dead for at least 13.7 billion years before now… it wasn’t so bad? No sense in living in fear of death, it’s not like you have a choice… no one gets out alive. Pretending by believing in a magical man will let you live forever doesn’t change the fact that there is absolutely 0… read that ZERO evidence to even suggest that any such thing actually occurs.

  18. on 03 Dec 2012 at 10:04 pm 18.Ben said …

    “there is absolutely 0… read that ZERO evidence to even suggest that any such thing actually occurs.”

    Where is your math and where is the proof.

  19. on 03 Dec 2012 at 10:21 pm 19.Cassie said …

    ok…first of all i am also a christian. when i first read this i was shocked. im 19 years old and i never knew a site like this existed. it upsets me at how many people do not believe there is a God. and please when you write His name be respectful and capitalize it. thank you. no back to what i was saying.i was saved at age 18 just a little over a year ago. God completely changed my life around. i was a young girl with no one to look to for guidance. i didnt have a home, a family or food. i made money sometime from having sex with complete strangers. one day when i was eating my last bit of food this woman walked by me and stopped. she looked me in the eye and said to me: “get up sweet heart a beautiful young woman like you should not be crawling around at the bottom of others feet.” that night i found who God was and what he could do for someone as low as me. He gave me a loving family, a home and food all in one day. how can anyone say there is no God! look around you!!!!! how can you look at the stars, the moon, the sun, your daughter/son, the love you can see in their eyes for you came from a marvelous creator…how can anyone deny that?

  20. on 03 Dec 2012 at 10:44 pm 20.BrianE said …

    Fear, guilt, and misinformation. You’re 13, and when I was that age, I would have argued the same points. But what you need to try and understand is that the things that you believe to be true, most likely are not. Jesus was not the son of god; there have been many sons of god – he just happens to be the most popular one right now. And you choose to believe out of fear (you’re afraid of missing out on an afterlife) and guilt (you mention the resurrection and Passion of the Christ – which is a horrible film meant to do nothing but scare and guilt people). These are not good reasons for believing; in fact they’re terrible. Muslims believe in their god out of fear and guilt as well; are they wrong, or are you wrong, or perhaps both? And don’t deny evolution – you need to understand that only a small cult of Christians even do this anymore, and its embarrassing to other Christians.

  21. on 03 Dec 2012 at 11:22 pm 21.DPK said …

    “there is absolutely 0… read that ZERO evidence to even suggest that any such thing actually occurs.”
    Where is your math and where is the proof.

    Ben, the village idiot, who also equates eating chicken eggs with eating human fetuses, does not realize that the absence of something does not require math, or evidence. If you we’re to claim that there is no evidence to suggest that flying pink unicorns exist, would it be necessary for me to demand you produce proof. You are such a moron.
    If you have evidence that life continues after death, present it. If you cannot, then that is in total agreement with my statement.

  22. on 03 Dec 2012 at 11:23 pm 22.Lou(DFW) said …

    16.Has-Ben said …

    “there is absolutely 0… read that ZERO evidence to even suggest that any such thing actually occurs.”

    “Where is your math and where is the proof.”

    Has-Ben, you idiot. The proof for heaven is in your feeble imagination. And if there’s ANY evidence for heaven other ZERO, then please provide it, fraud.

    Where is the “math” that leprechauns don’t exist?

  23. on 03 Dec 2012 at 11:27 pm 23.Lou(DFW) said …

    19.DPK said …

    “If you have evidence that life continues after death, present it. If you cannot, then that is in total agreement with my statement.”

    That is the math for all the theists and their many sock-puppets here: ZERO evidence, simple math. Not even the idiot theists here need their fingers to count that far.

    So, Has-Ben, that’s the “math” until you provide any “proof” or evidence of heaven.

  24. on 04 Dec 2012 at 12:15 am 24.Lou(DFW) said …

    17.Cassie said …

    “i made money sometime from having sex with complete strangers. one day when i was eating my last bit of food…”

    Maybe you weren’t very good at it.

    “look around you!!!!! how can you look at the stars, the moon, the sun, your daughter/son, the love you can see in their eyes for you came from a marvelous creator…how can anyone deny that?”

    Simple:

    http://tinyurl.com/c2nehst

    Some marvelous creator in which you believe!

    Now, who else wants to post another fictional affirmation?

  25. on 04 Dec 2012 at 1:20 am 25.A said …

    Cassie

    My apologies for the hateful atheist and their vulgarity. You seem like a sweet genuine good young lady. Never let these haters change that.

  26. on 04 Dec 2012 at 1:41 am 26.alex said …

    “You seem like a sweet genuine good young lady…”

    Run away Cassie! Run! Run! to the popo.

  27. on 04 Dec 2012 at 2:00 am 27.Anonymous said …

    “You seem like a sweet genuine good young lady”.

    Isn’t that the kind of thing that Christian priests would say to the children in their care before they raped them?

    “A” if morals come from your god, is that why so many of your moral leaders are sex offenders?

  28. on 04 Dec 2012 at 2:10 am 28.alex said …

    “why so many of your moral leaders are sex offenders”

    The redeemer card washes away all sins, no matter how repugnant or vile. Theists love it. Obvious? Yay!

    Molested kids? God says, walk it off. Heaven awaits.

  29. on 04 Dec 2012 at 2:28 am 29.Cassie said …

    im not trying to be rude, you have your beliefs and i have mine. maybe i wasn’t good at it…i never said i was. but its not my place to judge anyone. all i know is that God helped me up from where i was and He has never left my side. i cant speak for everyone all i know is that there is a loving and just God. you can say all you want but ive seen the change in my life and i will be forever thankful!

  30. on 04 Dec 2012 at 3:09 am 30.Lou(DFW) said …

    29.Cassie said …

    “all i know is that God helped me up from where i was and He has never left my side.”

    How do you know that? You only mentioned that some woman took you in. What does that have to do with god? I took in stray animals. God didn’t tell me to do it, and I’m sure they weren’t praying.

  31. on 04 Dec 2012 at 3:11 am 31.Lou(DFW) said …

    29.Cassie said …

    More nonsense about her god delusion, but didn’t reply to:

    “24.Lou(DFW) said …

    Simple:
    http://tinyurl.com/c2nehst

    Some marvelous creator in which you believe!”

  32. on 04 Dec 2012 at 3:13 am 32.Lou(DFW) said …

    25.ASS said …

    “My apologies…”

    When are you going to apologize for NEVER, EVER providing evidence for your imaginary good?

  33. on 04 Dec 2012 at 3:14 am 33.DPK said …

    And which one of the multitudes of available gods do you attribute your salvation to? Every religion claims the same kinds of things, and every one claims the others are false. They cannot all be right, but they CAN all be wrong.

  34. on 04 Dec 2012 at 4:59 am 34.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Cassie and messenger would be good friends.

  35. on 04 Dec 2012 at 5:03 am 35.Anti-Theist said …

    Cassies story is saturated with nievety / ingenuinuity. (Ooh double Sic) Beyond the point of an educatable / self educatable person. A whore needs ample time to heal before reality looks atainable. Have fun pointing out my fabricated words those of weak rebuttal.

  36. on 04 Dec 2012 at 11:16 am 36.The messenger said …

    20.BrianE, the passion of Christ is not ment to scare people in any way, and it is not suppose to make us feel guilt.

    The passion of Christ film was created so that people would better understand the suffering that Jesus went through for us.

    BrianE, the only reason that you feel fear is because you are afraid to believe in God.

    You are afraid of God.

    You should not fear God, you should love God and you should praise him for all that he has done for us.

    Do not be afraid brother.

  37. on 04 Dec 2012 at 6:22 pm 37.Scourge said …

    Either a troll or the product of home-schooling abuse.

  38. on 04 Dec 2012 at 10:24 pm 38.Polonius said …

    Anonymous said …

    “Hi im a 13 year old and I am a follower of Christ.”

    I don’t know if “Anonymous” is here, but here goes.

    “First off, don’t think I’ve been fed all of this from my family. I have been researching for a long time over this subject.
    Secondly, I’ll be honest that this comment will have nothing to do with the text taken from the pamphlet that “proves” God is not real.

    Also as I already told you I am a Christian. You may think Im poisoning your blog but just hear me out for this just once and read it. I wrote this to show you that a lot of your “proven” points disproving God cannot be scientifically proven and in my opinion, they are false. In the website connected to this blog, there are 50 points that “disprove” God. the first basically says that God lies about answering prayers.”

    First off, if you want people to read your comments, you really need to divide them up into bite-sized paragraphs. Remember, people don’t come here to read what you’ve written. If you want them to, you need to make it easy for them. As it is, I doubt if many will bother.

    “I firmly believe that this is false. My example goes like this: suppose you are in your 30’s to 40’s and either of your parents is dying or will die soon. First: where will they go after they die? Will they just go blank, their personality, mind, memories, and consiousness gone, popped into thin air? Never to be seen again? Well that sucks, doesn’t it? Think about it: You will go through the same thing. Maybe it will hurt. A lot. More pain than anyone has ever experienced. Then you pop out of existence.”

    Secondly, if you divide things into paragraphs, it helps to organize your thoughts so that you’re only dealing with one idea at a time. Here you’ve started off by speculating on where loved ones go after they die. Then suddenly you’re talking about how death might hurt. And suddenly “more pain than anyone has ever experienced” – where did that come from?

    “Doesn’t that scare you? It sure did to me. Believing in God and at least having what your mind tells you is a loving relationship with Him at least gives you hope. I’d rather have false hope than no hope at all.”

    The gist of your argument here seems that the end of consciousness is such an appalling prospect that it’s better to believe in a god. But of course the same argument could be used to “prove” the existence of Santa Claus. Or of a variety of other gods. In fact it proves nothing.

    “But back to praying, the results of praying are more often than not very gradual and are sometimes hard to notice. If you pray for your almost to the point of dying parent to become a christian, they may never accept Christ until they are about to die or they may never accept Christ. It’s their decision, ultimately. Abraham, in Genesis, was told by God he would have an heir from his own body with Sarah when he was about 75. He had to wait until he was about 99 for Sarah to give birth to Isaac. It’s a test of faith; thats another reason for prayer. It either builds up your trust in God or if you don’t see results immediately, you just pack your bags and leave.”

    Now here, you’re touching on a very important thing about religions. Religions are very big on faith. Religions are very much against questioning their teachings. Questioning means doubt, and doubt is A Very Bad Thing.

    Of course, if any one religion had evidence to support it, its proponents would be only too happy to think about questions. But thinking is A Very Bad Thing, because it leads to doubt. This is nonsense. Thinking is what humans do best; it is nothing to be afraid of, and it can free your mind to marvel at the wonders of nature if you take off your blinders.

    “Also, in “Proof” #1, your example was asking God ONCE to cure everyone of cancer is absurd: first off, its putting God to the test; something Jesus direclty told us NOT to do after he fasted for 40 days in the desert and was being challenged into sinning by Satan, and also I don’t believe it really is God’s will that directly influences EVERYTHING. Look at the fall of man, which is the first sin committed by Adam and Eve in the Gardden of Eden: after Eve and Adam ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, they caused the entire world to be cursed: the ground was hard to work, thorns and diseases came into being, and disasters actually began to strike. It looks like God is punishing them, but He isn’t. You have to remember, before the first sin, Adam and Eve were like very young children, they did not know between good and evil. God told them they could do anything they wanted as long as they didn’t eat from one tree. Pretty simple right? Well they allowed themselves to be tricked into eating the fruit by Satan, and yes, it was their fault. they started the curses, including cancer. God doesn’t like us being sick with cancer, but he allows it because we did it to ourselves. He is not punishing us. He created a perfect world that we made imperfect, and he does not control the flow of diseases, like he does not control the orbit of the earth.”

    Do you believe this God is omniscient, in which I include prescient? Do you believe this God could see in advance how Adam would behave? Do you believe he created them so that they would behave in a particular way, but that it was somehow their fault?

    Try to take a step back and look at my previous paragraph with an open mind. If you can, you’ll begin to see how absurd your concept of God is. And that’s without even getting onto questions like who invented earthquakes.

    “Back to my example of you praying for a parent to become a christian, it istheir choice to accept Jesus, not God’s. God allows us to have choices: just like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Een. He does not want us to be mindless robots; He understands we value fairness so much and respects that. He gives us a choice between right and wrong no matter what. Maybe that dying family member will accept Jesus.”

    I think today I’ll choose to believe that I can fly. Or perhaps I’ll just believe that I have an expensive fast car. No, that’s ridiculous. We cannot choose what to believe. We can only choose what kind of evidence we will accept to inform our understanding of the world.

    One option is to accept the evidence of science. It might help if you understand a little about how science works. In particular, there’s an odd piece of jargon that scientists use that’s often misunderstood by the public. Creationists like to say “the theory of evolution is only a theory”, or “the big bang theory is only a theory”. That betrays a misunderstanding of how scientists use the word “theory”. What most people would call “only a theory” is what a scientist would call a “hypothesis”.

    In science, a hypothesis only becomes known as a theory when all attempts to prove it wrong have failed. You should understand that scientists compete with each other for research funding; there is nothing they like more than proving each other wrong. Once a hypothesis is elevated to the status of a theory, you can bet it’s a very good description of how the world works. It might subsequently emerge that it’s not a perfect description of how things behave at very large or small scales, near the speed of light or at very low temperatures, but it’s not fundamentally wrong.

    Another option is to accept only the evidence of a bronze age book with a few iron age appendices.

    “In fact, Charles Darwin, the man famous for “discovering” evolution, on his deathbed rejected his entire work on the subject.”

    In fact? According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathbed_conversion, somebody who wasn’t present alleged that he expressed regret at how he had presented the theory, a long way from rejecting the theory itself. But two people, at least one of whom was present, refute that allegation.

    It’s important not to regard Wikipedia as a primary source. If I want to rely on that last paragraph, I really ought to check the sources. But d’you know what? It doesn’t matter.

    Darwin’s Origin of Species consists of a few dozen pages of setting out the hypothesis, and hundreds and hundreds of pages of overwhelming evidence of the truth of that hypothesis. If you were to read it with an open mind, you could not fail to be persuaded.

    You need to understand that scientists follow the evidence. Even if Darwin had recanted on his deathbed, the evidence would remain. What he thought really doesn’t matter.

    “What does this mean???? Anyway, I believe that in most cases God’s will is irrelevent to most situations. This is coming from a Christian! Also you said there is no scientific evidence. You are right. You probably think that my faith is kinda like believing in alternate universes. There is no scientific proof. Maybe black holes, but since no one can go to a black hole, you will never know.”

    No-one can go to a black hole, or see an atom, but science allows us to infer the behavior of objects by how they influence their surroundings. Honestly, you should read about science! It’s fascinating.

    “With God, the closest thing to evidence is how much Christianity has influenced the world. a 7th of the world’s population says that they are Christians and just because one man died from a common Roman execution for criminals, the course of history has been changed many times. Not bad for a guy that died around age 30, is it? The closest thing to scientific evidence is Christianity’s influence. Once again, look at history. Yeah.

    Sorry that this was so long, but God IS REAL!!! Its not about just praying and following the rules; its about a loving relationship with someone like no other that you get to spend the rest of your life with. Its not about escaping hell, its about loving Jesus because of who he is, what he did, and his unending love for us!!!

    Please, take the time to at least watch the movie The Passion of the Christ. At least a five minute clip on youtube when he’s on the cross. And if you want to continue, pray to Him. ask him if you can be in a relationship with him. Trust me: he never leaves anyone out! Then, read a gospel and join a church! (I prefer non-denominational) Thank you for reading this entire thing and sorry that its so long just think about what I said please.

    Thanks so much! God bless you all! Jesus loves you”

    Try to look at evidence with an open mind. Think!

  39. on 04 Dec 2012 at 11:31 pm 39.Patrick Flannery said …

    “I’d rather have false hope than no hope at all.”

    That is why you are a believer and why there is really no point in talking to you at all. You have no interest in the truth or knowledge and are instead looking only for comfort and happiness. This is certainly your right and an understandable choice.

    However, understanding as you do that you are not really interested in the truth, you should not presume to put forth your worldview to others as one they should follow or even be interested in. As you acknowledge that you really aren’t making any attempt to really know anything, you should understand that others have committed themselves to this very enterprise, turning away from the comfort and happiness you prize so greatly in order to do so. By rejecting knowledge and understanding, you place yourself in a position where you must defer to these people and accept their conclusions. Your position of comfort over truth is one of complete powerlessness. I hope it serves you well – I could never tolerate it.

  40. on 04 Dec 2012 at 11:58 pm 40.The messenger said …

    39.Patrick Flannery, you obviously do not understand what the true messege of his comment is.

    He only said that statement about hope as a way to appeal to people who have no hope.

  41. on 05 Dec 2012 at 5:03 am 41.Travis said …

    I recently came across the “stone paradox” which essentially inquires to whether or not God can, in his own omnipotence, create a stone that he couldn’t lift. If he can create a stone heavy enough to stop him from lifting it, then he is not perfect. On the contraire, if there is no stone that is too heavy to be lifted by God, then he is not omnipotent because he cannot create a stone heavy enough to not lift…Additionally, I would also like to use Carl Sagan’s story about the dragon in his garage. Take the time to read about it…because if you believe in God based off faith, then you must believe in the floating, invisible, immaterial, heatless-fire breathing dragon…if not then answer how you can validate one claim of faith(the dragon) over another (God)?

  42. on 05 Dec 2012 at 7:12 am 42.Severin said …

    29 Cassie
    “all i know is that God helped me …”

    Didn’t you say in #19 that a woman helped you?

  43. on 05 Dec 2012 at 7:20 am 43.Severin said …

    Messenger
    “… all that happens to us happens for reason, it is a part of our father’s plan”

    Holocaust?
    Straving children?

    http://tinyurl.com/c2nehst ?

    Why don’t you tell us?

  44. on 05 Dec 2012 at 12:36 pm 44.Patrick Flannery said …

    40. Messenger: Thanks for the irrelevant non sequiter. Apparently, you are not able to grasp either of our arguments.

  45. on 05 Dec 2012 at 3:01 pm 45.BrianE said …

    Messenger: Any god that employs fear and guilt as its tools for getting and keeping followers is evil; plain and simple. I don’t believe in god not because I’m afraid of him, but because I’m confident he does not exist. I’m no more afraid of your god than I am of Thor, Zeus, or Shivva. Rather, if you’re honest with yourself, you’ll see that it is you who is afraid to question your beliefs – which means this man-made system is doing its job.

  46. on 05 Dec 2012 at 3:08 pm 46.Anonymous said …

    Patrick, that’s Messenger’s MO.

    Some here suggest that he’s mentally ill. An alternate explanation is that he invents absurd explanations along the lines of “what it really means is…” in order to draw the conversation away from the bible and into his game of shift-the-goal-posts.

  47. on 05 Dec 2012 at 8:48 pm 47.The messenger said …

    46.Anonymous, you and every other Athiest on this blog fail to understand the true meaning of the bible.

    I have given you the meaning of every bible passage that you have presented before me.

  48. on 05 Dec 2012 at 9:52 pm 48.Lou(DFW) said …

    47.The messenger said …

    “I have given you the meaning of every bible passage that you have presented before me.”

    Where have you explained why your imaginary god allows innocent children to be killed by natural “disasters?”

    How is that part of your imaginary god’s plan?

  49. on 05 Dec 2012 at 9:54 pm 49.Lou(DFW) said …

    47.The messenger said …

    “I have given you the meaning of every bible passage that you have presented before me.”

    Yes, that’s easy for anybody, even some moron like you.

    Answer the difficult questions:

    43.Severin said …
    Messenger
    “… all that happens to us happens for reason, it is a part of our father’s plan”
    Holocaust?
    Straving children?
    http://tinyurl.com/c2nehst ?
    Why don’t you tell us?

  50. on 06 Dec 2012 at 5:08 am 50.AmSci said …

    If this kid is already feeling the need to make these arguments at thirteen, he’s probably going to end up an atheist anyway. It reads more like an internal struggle than any sort of coherent argument.

    I hope he joins the debate team at some point so he can learn a bit more about logical fallacies. He makes an argument from consequences (non existence after death), argument from authority (Darwin’s recantation, although it isn’t true), argumentum ad populum (lots of people believe its true), special pleading (prayer won’t work if you test it), and an argument by bare assertion (there IS a God!). He also shifts the burden of proof when he’s making the positive claim and uses anecdotal evidence regarding prayer.

    If you are reading this, kid, here is a recommendation: whenever you are making an argument, ask yourself, “could I use this same argument to support something that definitely isn’t true?” If the answer is yes, then you are using a logical fallacy and should either find an argument that is logical or abandon your position.

    For example, you write, “The closest thing to scientific evidence is Christianity’s influence.” But, you could use the same argument for the Greek and Roman religions, Islam, Buddhism, etc. At most, only one of those religions can be true. Therefore, your argument is a logical fallacy– it is not evidence that Christianity’s claims are true.

    I leave you with a final thought: there are an infinite number of untrue claims about reality and a finite number of claims that actually reflect reality. Without any evidence that a claim reflects reality, it makes far more sense to assume that it isn’t true. God is one such claim. Remember never to confuse what you want to be true with what actually is. And, I promise, I godless finite existence isn’t so bad– especially if you can find some great people to share it with. Your chances of ever having existed are small indeed; just be glad you’re here– the universe owes you nothing.

  51. on 06 Dec 2012 at 6:22 am 51.Cynthiaj said …

    So hating the people and talking down to them that have faith in God is the answer??? Wow I’ll stick with my faith in the Lord God…. After all he’s the one that brought me to this site or whatever it is and told me to tell you that he forgives you all….Amen

  52. on 06 Dec 2012 at 6:38 am 52.Cynthiaj said …

    Oh and as for the 13 year old who started this abundance of comments may God bless you for your strength,wisdom,and faith. you by far are a much better human being then any of these people who believe hate is better then faith….PRAISE GOD!!!!!

  53. on 06 Dec 2012 at 7:27 am 53.Severin said …

    51 Cynthiaj
    “So hating the people …”

    Where did you find hate, dear lady?

    Maybe in your own deluded mind, that subconsciously fights your will to keep being deluded?
    Subconscious is a great thing, but may be dangerous. Under pressure of society you are consciously trying to keep supporting beliefs for which your subconscious knows are illogical and false, causing feeling of tension, which can easily bring hatred to the surface.

    Use your brain openly and purposely.
    No one here hates you.

  54. on 06 Dec 2012 at 4:06 pm 54.DPK said …

    In typical Christian fashion, Cynthiaj equates the pointing out of logical fallacies, falsehoods, misconceptions, and contradictions in religious faith as “hatred” and, playing the persecution card, seeks validation in the form of “respect.”
    Here’s a clue Cynthiaj. No one hates you, but your ideas warrant respect only as far as you can demonstrate that they are actually true. Since you can’t do that, if you choose to believe them yourself based solely on wishful thinking.. fine. Just please don’t expect others to “respect” that. We are past the Dark Ages.

    “I’ll stick with my faith in the Lord God…. After all he’s the one that brought me to this site or whatever it is and told me to tell you that he forgives you all….Amen”

    Well, that’s a problem. A few weeks ago we had another messenger of the Lord here who said god said we are all going to hell, or as he put it [[[HELL]]]. Maybe you missed him in the hallway. The other “messenger” here says all you have to do is be a good person to go to heaven, and the guy selling the book who claims to have actually died and gone to heaven says god told HIM “there is nothing to fear, there is NOTHING you can do wrong”. Another said we must accept Jesus, yet another said Jesus is false and we must accept Allah, another says we don’t have to accept anything, just be good.
    Obviously, all of you cannot be right, but also obviously, all of you COULD be wrong. So, why should we believe you, instead of any of the other prophets who claim to speak for god? And why, tell us please, has god chosen YOU, over all the other people in the world, to deliver this message to us? Indeed, if he loves me, why doesn’t he talk to me HIMSELF, instead of sending YOU to some obscure internet forum to deliver a dubious message?
    Why would he do that? Amen.

  55. on 06 Dec 2012 at 8:31 pm 55.Anti-Theist said …

    I don’t remember the xtians on this site, five years ago claiming to be prophets. We certainly have a new breed these days. As goes for the rest of the planet I guess. As faith becomes more obscure believers become more volatile / desperate. It must be exhausting to keep such stupid beliefs in todays world.

  56. on 06 Dec 2012 at 8:59 pm 56.CastBound said …

    “Messenger: Any god that employs fear and guilt as its tools for getting and keeping followers is evil; plain and simple.”

    Fear and guilt are natural human responses. Fear keeps one from sticking their hand in the fire. Guilt is our natural response when we have committed and act that is immoral.

    Brian as an atheist, define the template on which you have determined God is evil?

  57. on 06 Dec 2012 at 9:58 pm 57.Lou(DFW) said …

    56.CastBound said …

    “Fear keeps one from sticking their hand in the fire.”

    Actually, no – pain does.

    “Guilt is our natural response when we have committed and act that is immoral.”

    No, it’s not natural, because some people don’t have such guilt. Which, by the way, refutes your concept of absolute morality.

    “Brian as an atheist, define the template on which you have determined God is evil?”

    You are in no position to demand answers from anybody who is refuting YOUR claim when you NEVER, EVER provide answers.

    For example, you were asked many times where is the xtian “template” of (absolute) morality?

  58. on 06 Dec 2012 at 11:42 pm 58.The messenger said …

    48.Lou(DFW), I have explained that in my previous comments.

  59. on 07 Dec 2012 at 1:41 am 59.alex said …

    here’s your god proof: http://goo.gl/Gzzux

  60. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:02 am 60.Anonymous said …

    CastBound (another of the sockpuppet clan) makes some comments that, even if he was correct, strengthen the point made earlier.

    If we expand his definition of natural (whatever he means by that) we end up with:

    “Messenger: Any god that employs deliberately making people experience painful and negative emotions as its tools for getting and keeping followers is evil; plain and simple.

    Perhaps CastBound wants to equivocate over the word evil as he seems to be doing with “natural” whilst arguing that a god that acts as above is acting morally. Of course, that would be the Christian definition of moral as: “moral is whatever the Christian god does”.

    But please, please do point us to where the absolute and immutable Christian moral code is spelled out.

  61. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:15 am 61.The messenger said …

    49.Lou(DFW), I have already explained that in my previous comments.

    Stop asking me the same questions over and over you stupid parrot.

  62. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:21 am 62.The messenger said …

    59.alex are you mentally damaged?

    The police report said that the kid was spanked because he lied, it did not say that particular spanking was the cause of his death.

    That kid’s parrents commited a very bad sin for killing him.when those murrders die they will be sent to hell.

  63. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:34 am 63.The messenger said …

    60.Anonymous, he does not do that to keep his followers.

    He does all of that so we will learn from our mistakes and become morally better people.

    We have always learned best from our mistakes, that is how God is teaching us.

    Sure life is hard. So what?

    God wants us to chose to do what is good. If everyone would just do the what is right then there would be no more suffering in this world.

  64. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:36 am 64.The messenger said …

    57.Lou(DFW), deep everyone has guilt, even if they do not replied it.

  65. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:41 am 65.The messenger said …

    60.Anonymous, Jesus has always tried to teach us what is right from what is wrong, he died trying to teach us morality.

    He always showed us kindness and mercy, and yet you still have no love for him.

    You are nothing but a selfish missguided fool.

    May Jesus have mercy on you.

  66. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:44 am 66.The messenger said …

    60.Anonymous, the Christian moral code is spelled out in the bible.

    If you want to learn about it I suggest you go to a Catholic Church, they will teach you about it.

  67. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:58 am 67.Lou(DFW) said …

    61.The messenger said …

    “Stop asking me the same questions over and over…”

    Except that I never asked that question but once.

    “…you stupid parrot.”

    Says the person who repeatedly C&Ps the same laughable “proof” for his imaginary god.

  68. on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:02 am 68.Lou(DFW) said …

    62.The messenger said …

    “59.alex are you mentally damaged?”

    Speaking of mentally challenged:

    “The police report said that the kid was spanked because he lied, it did not say that particular spanking was the cause of his death.”

    No one other than you introduced spanking in to the subject of the beating death, certainly not alex. But according to you, it was part of god’s plan.

  69. on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:38 am 69.Ben said …

    brian has determined God is immoral based on his personal opinion. But what makes his opinion relevant? Nothing

    Warranted fear is actually moral. If a bear is about to attack and we run out of fear that is certainly moral.

    If a child steals from a friend and returns those items out of fear, that is actually moral.

    Brian is either a moron or trolling.

  70. on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:45 am 70.Anonymous said …

    “That kid’s parrents commited a very bad sin for killing him.when those murrders die they will be sent to hell.”

    But wait. What if they confess their sins sincerely and with genuine sorrow and are truly repentant? Then they get to go to heaven? They do, don’t they?

    Oh, as a reminder, your pretense here is that you are a Catholic so your answer needs to be in line with Catholic teachings.

  71. on 07 Dec 2012 at 8:12 am 71.Severin said …

    62 Messenger
    “That kid’s parrents commited a very bad sin for killing him.when those murrders die they will be sent to hell.”

    Why?

    “Everything that happens to us happens by purpose, it is a part of our father’s plan …”

    Why should those people go to hell, if the death of that poor kid was god’s will, done with purpose, as a part of his plan?
    Weren’t they only tools in god’s hands to realize his plan? Didn’t he planned for THEM to kil the child?
    Those people are completely innocent!

    Or,maybe everything that happens to us is NOT done by purpose, and is NOT a part of god’s plan?

    The problem for you is to distinguish between what is and what is not a part of god’s plan.

    But you already said: EVERYTHING!
    Are ou going to withdrow it?

  72. on 07 Dec 2012 at 8:27 am 72.Severin said …

    Messenger et al

    1. “Everything that happens to us happens by purpose and is a part of god’s plan”.

    2. Parents brutally killed their boy

    3. As that event absolutely fits the criterion “everything” (EVERYTHING fits that criterion), it MUST be that death of that kid was ALSO done by purpose, and a part of god’s plan. There is NO other possibility.

    4. God killed the boy and his parents are innocent

    I wonder why were they judged in a Christian country which recognizes and respects god’s plans!?

    Blasphemy!

  73. on 07 Dec 2012 at 10:47 am 73.The messenger said …

    on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:02 am 69.Lou(DFW), I was just stating a fact that was in the article that you posted.

  74. on 07 Dec 2012 at 10:50 am 74.The messenger said …

    71.Severin, eventually they will be released from hell, after they reolize that murrdering is wrong.

  75. on 07 Dec 2012 at 10:52 am 75.The messenger said …

    72.Severin, he did that to teach those parrents that killing is wrong. And once they realize that, they will be released from hell.

  76. on 07 Dec 2012 at 10:56 am 76.The messenger said …

    70.Anonymous, if they truly are sorry for killing thier kid, and they confess thier sins to God, go will forgive them and will let them into heaven.

  77. on 07 Dec 2012 at 10:57 am 77.Lou(DFW) said …

    69.Has-Ben hypocritically said …

    “brian has determined God is immoral…”

    He wrote “evil,” not immoral – “Any god that employs fear and guilt as its tools for getting and keeping followers is evil; plain and simple.”

    Stop lying about what is posted in a vain attempt to make a point.

    Furthermore, do you deny that your imaginary god does NOT use “fear and guilt as its tools?”

    “…based on his personal opinion. But what makes his opinion relevant? Nothing”

    Then had the nerve to say…

    “Warranted fear is actually moral. If a bear is about to attack and we run out of fear that is certainly moral.

    If a child steals from a friend and returns those items out of fear, that is actually moral.”

    That is only Has-Ben’s opinion because he never provides the actual absolute moral code that over and over he was asked to provide.

    Therefore, what makes his opinion relevant? Nothing.

  78. on 07 Dec 2012 at 1:46 pm 78.Lou(DFW) said …

    73.The messenger said …

    “on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:02 am 69.Lou(DFW), I was just stating a fact that was in the article that you posted.”

    First of all, I didn’t post it.

    Second, your comment is irrelevant. We can read the article without you re-quoting it.

  79. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:24 pm 79.Anonymous said …

    So, from messenger, everything happens according to a plan. Which means that this god planned for the child to be killed by the parents.

    Why did he plan this? According to messenger, he planned that they would kill their own child so that he could teach them that murder was wrong.

    What would happen to them? According to messenger, they would go to hell or they would not go to hell.

    What decides if they go to hell? If they sincerely repent of murdering their child according to the plan that this god had for them, then they won’t go to hell.

    Could they ever be released from hell? Yes, if they sincerely repent of murdering their child according to the plan that this god had for them, then they will be released from hell.

    To recap; did this god know they would kill their child? Yes, he planned it so that they would.

    Did this god know when or if they would repent? Yes, he planned it so.

    What did they learn? They learned that their god made them kill their child so that he could teach them a lesson and punish them for fulfilling his plan.

    … and we still don’t think this guy is trolling just to get a rise?

  80. on 07 Dec 2012 at 11:34 pm 80.The messenger said …

    I already explained that.

  81. on 08 Dec 2012 at 4:25 am 81.The messenger said …

    5.alex, no it does not you idiot.

    God loves us nomatter who you are.

  82. on 08 Dec 2012 at 2:09 pm 82.DPK said …

    I recall some quote from Stephen Hawkings something to the effect of,… “I notice that even people who believe that everything happens according to god’s plan look before crossing the street..”
    Paraphrasing, but you get the concept.
    Messenger, I’m sure you’ve heard this many, many times, but you’re full of shit.

  83. on 08 Dec 2012 at 3:27 pm 83.The messenger said …

    Brother 82.DPK, every thing happens for a reason.

    God gave us the ability to recognize danger so we can keep our selves and the people around us safe from harm.

    We recognize danger for a reason too. God gave us the ability to recodnize danger so we can avoide it.

    Steven Halking thinks that he knows every thing.

    He does not.

    He is very book smart, but he lacks common sense.

  84. on 08 Dec 2012 at 6:07 pm 84.DPK said …

    Idiot… if “everything happens for a reason” why would we need to keep ourselves and the people around us from harm? Why would we need to recognize and avoid danger if everything that happens happens according to the way god wants it anyway.
    Unlike you, Steven “Halking” [sic]most definitely does NOT think he knows everything… you have no idea what a scientist is, do you. Stop pretending you know things you do not know… and stop pretending that you speak for god. If god were real he most certainly would not have picked a complete idiot like you as a spokesperson. Remember what the bible says about false prophets and those that claim to speak for god.

    On the other hand, you are neither “book smart”, and I guess that’s yer fancy word for educated, nor do you have common sense, as witnessed by the fact that you cannot write even 2 sentences without contradicting yourself.

  85. on 08 Dec 2012 at 6:28 pm 85.DPK said …

    and messenger, I notice you didn’t have anything to say about this comment on another thread:

    177.boyer said …

    “The Bible says not to argue with disbelievers, he [god] does not need us to argue for him.”

    If that is what the bible says, why are you disobeying god’s word?

    My, you are just a basket full of contradictions, aren’t you?

  86. on 09 Dec 2012 at 1:58 am 86.The messenger said …

    84.DPK, I am not argueing with you.

    I am just presenting the truth.

    You are disobeying Jesus by not believing in him.

  87. on 09 Dec 2012 at 1:59 am 87.The messenger said …

    I know what a scientist is you idiot.

  88. on 09 Dec 2012 at 2:27 am 88.The messenger said …

    Brother 84.DPK, Jesus is the only person who knows every thing.

  89. on 09 Dec 2012 at 4:28 am 89.Anonymous said …

    DPK, as you know, if a god was real he simply wouldn’t need a messenger. At all.

    That a supposedly omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient deity needs any kind of help can only be attributed to it being omni-imaginary.

  90. on 09 Dec 2012 at 3:07 pm 90.The messenger said …

    Brother 89.Anonymous, God does not need any messengers, but he does want messengers.

  91. on 09 Dec 2012 at 6:46 pm 91.Ben said …

    BrianE,

    Where did you go? You claimed God is evil. What is this evil vs good based on BrianE? You need something more substantial than just making a judgment.

  92. on 09 Dec 2012 at 7:13 pm 92.DPK said …

    Ben,
    Where did you go? You claimed that god is real. What is this claim based on Ben? You need something more substantial than just making a judgement.

  93. on 09 Dec 2012 at 7:53 pm 93.DPK said …

    But, since you want to discuss the good vs evil nature of your god legend in view of the absolute Christian moral code that you claim comes from this hypothetical god, please show us where we can find this absolute moral code so we can see exactly how the reported actions of your god mesh up.
    If you can’t do either of these simple things, then what the fuck are you actually trolling for, Ben? A way to take attention away from your humiliation when masquerading as xenon?

  94. on 09 Dec 2012 at 7:53 pm 94.Anti-Theist said …

    If god was real, what kind of pathetic shell of a Pearson would want to worship it for an eternity.

  95. on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:11 pm 95.40 Year Atheist said …

    There is a striking correlation between the underlying logic of the Argument from Evil and the Atheist ethic of Consequentialism.

    [As a disclaimer, I realize full well that not all Atheists are consequentialists; some are just co-opting Judeo-Christianity, or have made up their own ethic; a great many Atheists are consequentialists, however].

    Consequentialism is very simple: the end justifies the means. If an objective is declared good or moral, then any means to attain that end are also good and moral. The most recent instance of this is found in Obama’s teaching of Saul Alinsky’s “Rules For Radicals”, in which Alinsky lays out 11 rules of ethics and means and ends”. Exerpts:

    Rule #3: “in war the end justifies almost any means”.

    Rule #10: “you do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.

    And, “Moral rationalization is required at all times of action whether to justify the selection or the use of ends or means.”

    Consequentialism insists that there actually be no consequences for any actions taken toward a chosen goal.

    Contrast that position with the Argument from Evil, where humans would be shielded from the consequences of any bad decisions they might make. Insisting that a moral deity would remove all consequences places humans squarely on the path to mega-happiness. But the consequences exist, so the deity – if one exists – cannot be moral. And therefore can’t exist.

    Now contrast those positions to the humanist position. The only moral consequence is human happiness, according to the atheist, the humanist, and the radical. Not individual human happiness, mind you, but bulk happiness for the chosen population. Other individuals are expected to find their happiness in submitting to the will of those in charge: the elites. Any activities that subtract from overall happiness must be dealt with and eliminated. So the elites suffer no consequences for enforcing their will.

    The drive to be consequence-free is endemic now in our society. From homosexuals who blame straights for spreading AIDs, to feminists who blame men for their unhappiness, to adolescents who blame their parents, to the bankrupt who blame banks for lending to them, and on and on. But if God won’t remove consequences from our actions, then government must do it, yes? Government must cushion all consequences in order to provide happiness. This resulting ethic is common to a large portion of Atheists, humanists, leftists, and social activists.

    It is spreading to our youth who feel entitled, another aspect of being consequence-free.

    The denial of consequences is itelf evil. It is purely self-indulgent, and destructive. Arguing otherwise is irrational.

  96. on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:27 pm 96.Anonymous said …

    Wow, all of these diversions in order to protect the Xenon persona from having to respond to questions about “[his] conclusion that a Creator designed and created the universe”

    Xenon, we’re still waiting:

    The universe is vast, infinite even, and your assertion that it looks designed is vague and unquantifiable. Right now it’s simply an intellectually lazy way to dodge a lack of evidence.

    1) What do you mean by “designed”, don’t be circular, tell us what is “designed” about the universe. It being what it is is NOT helpful. Back up your assertion with detail.

    2) Which parts look “designed”? All, some, what?

    3) How did you verify that it looks designed? For example, how many other universes have you examined to see if they look designed, or is this a sample of one?

    4) What would an undesigned universe look like? We need both to form a valid comparison.

  97. on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:41 pm 97.Lou(DFW) said …

    95.40 Year Asshole said …

    “There is a striking correlation between the underlying logic of the Argument from Evil and the Atheist ethic of Consequentialism.”

    There is a striking correlation between the belief in an imaginary god and lying.

  98. on 09 Dec 2012 at 9:45 pm 98.Lou(DFW) said …

    91.Has-Ben said …

    “BrianE,

    Where did you go? You claimed God is evil.

    No, he didn’t. You’re lying again.

    BrianE actually wrote:

    “Any god that employs fear and guilt as its tools for getting and keeping followers is evil; plain and simple.”

    “What is this evil vs good based on BrianE?”

    The same thing upon which your definition of good and evil is based.

  99. on 09 Dec 2012 at 10:26 pm 99.The messenger said …

    48.Lou(DFW), I was talking about bible passages, you idiot, not events that are happening in modern time.

  100. on 09 Dec 2012 at 10:28 pm 100.The messenger said …

    Eben Alexander (author)

    This article or section is in the process of an expansion or major restructuring. You are welcome to assist in its construction by editing it as well. If this article or section has not been edited in several days, please remove this template.
    This article was last edited by 98.235.210.107 (talk | contribs) 2 days ago. (Purge)
    This article is about the neurosurgeon and author. For his great-grandfather, see Eben Alexander.
    Eben Alexander III
    Born December, 1953
    Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
    Nationality USA
    Occupation Writer, Neurosurgeon
    Website
    http://www.lifebeyonddeath.net/
    Eben Alexander III (born December, 1953 in Charlotte, North Carolina) is a neurosurgeon and the author of the best-selling Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife, in which he shares his thoughts on his near-death experience and whether science can explain that heaven really does exist.

    HideAuthorship

    Alexander is the author of the autobiographical book Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon’s Journey into the Afterlife (2012) in which he asserts that his out of body and near death experience (NDE) while in a meningitis-induced coma in 2008 proves that consciousness is independent of the brain, that death is an illusion, and that an eternity of perfect splendor awaits in the afterlife. According to him, the current understanding of the mind “now lies broken at our feet ”— for “What happened to me destroyed it, and I intend to spend the rest of my life investigating the true nature of consciousness and making the fact that we are more, much more, than our physical brains as clear as I can, both to my fellow scientists and to people at large.” Alexander’s book was excerpted in a Newsweek magazine cover story in October 2012.[1] (In May 2012, Alexander had provided a slightly more technical account of the events described in his book in an article, “My Experience in Coma”, in AANS Neurosurgeon, the trade publication of the American Association of Neurological Surgeons.[2])

    Alexander’s book and publicity campaign have been criticized by scientists including neuroscientist Sam Harris who found his account “alarmingly unscientific” and who has written that “Everything — absolutely everything — in Alexander’s account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was “shut down,” “inactivated,” “completely shut down,” “totally offline,” and “stunned to complete inactivity.” The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate — it suggests that he doesn’t know anything about the relevant brain science.”[3] “Even in cases where the brain is alleged to have shut down, its activity must return if the subject is to survive and describe the experience. In such cases, there is generally no way to establish that the NDE occurred while the brain was offline.”[4]

    In November 2012, Alexander responded to critics in a second Newsweek article: “My synapses—the spaces between the neurons of the brain that support the electrochemical activity that makes the brain function—were not simply compromised during my experience. They were stopped. Only isolated pockets of deep cortical neurons were still sputtering, but no broad networks capable of generating anything like what we call “consciousness.” The E. coli bacteria that flooded my brain during my illness made sure of that. My doctors have told me that according to all the brain tests they were doing, there was no way that any of the functions including vision, hearing, emotion, memory, language, or logic could possibly have been intact.”[5] Alexander also responded, “I know that my experience happened within coma because of certain anchors to earth time in memory.”[6]

    As of December 2, 2012, Proof of Heaven has been on the The New York Times Best Seller list for four weeks.[7]

    Close this section
    HideBiography

    Education and training

    Alexander attended Phillips Exeter Academy (class of 1972), University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (A.B., 1975), and the Duke University School of Medicine (M.D., 1980).

    Alexander was an Intern in General Surgery at Duke University Medical Center, a resident at Duke, Newcastle (U.K.) General Hospital. He was a resident and research fellow at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Massachusetts General Hospital and is certified by the American Board of Neurological Surgery and the American College of Surgeons (F.A.C.S.).

    Academic and clinical appointments

    Alexander has taught at Duke University Medical Center, Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Harvard Medical School, University of Massachusetts Medical School, and the University of Virginia Medical School.

    He has had hospital appointments at Brigham and Women’s Hospital, Boston Children’s Hospital, Dana–Farber Cancer Institute, Massachusetts General Hospital, University of Massachusetts Medical Center, and Lynchburg (Virginia) General Hospital-CentraHealth. He is currently an attending neurosurgeon.

    Professional activities

    Alexander is a member of the American Medical Association and various other professional societies. He has been on the editorial boards of various journals.

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  101. on 09 Dec 2012 at 11:39 pm 101.Lou(DFW) said …

    99.The messenger said …

    “48.Lou(DFW), I was talking about bible passages, you idiot, not events that are happening in modern time.”

    I don’t care what you were talking about. I’m asking you direct, simple questions:

    Where have you explained why your imaginary god allows innocent children to be killed by natural “disasters?”

    How is that part of your imaginary god’s plan?

    Can you answer them or not?

  102. on 09 Dec 2012 at 11:40 pm 102.Lou(DFW) said …

    100.The messenger said …

    “Eben Alexander (author)”

    Wrote fairy tale. So what?

  103. on 09 Dec 2012 at 11:53 pm 103.Anonymous said …

    So, what? It’s a C&P taunt. He’s trying to hide the subject of Xenon and “friends” failure to respond to actual questions and change it to something where he can argue in circles about interpretation and semantics.

  104. on 10 Dec 2012 at 2:48 am 104.Right On said …

    “The only moral consequence is human happiness, according to the atheist, the humanist, and the radical. Not individual human happiness, mind you, but bulk happiness for the chosen population.”

    40YA good to see you back however I can’t agree with this. Atheist/Liberals/Progressives are Never Ever happy. They rather enjoy being angry and bitter. Since they have no purpose, no future and are nihilistic in nature, they have no happiness.

  105. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:34 am 105.The messenger said …

    101.Lou(DFW), I HAVE EXPLAINED T HAT IN MY PREVIOUS comments.

    How stupid are you?

  106. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:35 am 106.Lou(DFW) said …

    104.Wrong Off said …

    “They rather enjoy being angry and bitter. Since they have no purpose, no future and are nihilistic in nature, they have no happiness.”

    Right, just like these xtians:

    http://tinyurl.com/7wlwdgy

    Theists, because they have no future, invent an imaginary god and an imaginary heaven. Because they have no purpose, they invent reasons to hate other people who don’t believe and think as they do. They have no happiness.

  107. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:38 am 107.The messenger said …

    Brother 106.Lou(DFW), the teachings of Christianity have always opposed hate.

    Christianity teaches us to love one another and to live happy and peaceful lives

    God is real.

  108. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:41 am 108.The messenger said …

    Brother 106.Lou(DFW), I sense a lot of anger and pain in you.

    You have a hard time believing in our Father because of the struggles that you and others have had in your life.

    I pray that Jesus will help you find peace and happiness.

  109. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:44 am 109.The messenger said …

    104.Right On well said brother.

    Pray for those unhappy people just as I have, and mane God will bring them happiness.

  110. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:47 am 110.The messenger said …

    In comments 11 and 12 I ment to type the word (maybe), not (made).

    Sorry.

  111. on 10 Dec 2012 at 4:40 am 111.Anti-Theist said …

    There is no life after death. You have not been forgiven.

  112. on 10 Dec 2012 at 5:12 am 112.DPK said …

    on 10 Dec 2012 at 2:48 am 104.Right On said …
    “Atheist/Liberals/Progressives are Never Ever happy. They rather enjoy being angry and bitter. Since they have no purpose, no future and are nihilistic in nature, they have no happiness.”

    You can add that belief to the long list of things you think you know, about which you are completely wrong.

  113. on 10 Dec 2012 at 5:43 am 113.The messenger said …

    112.Anti-Theist, well sense lou(DPK) and DPK tend to throw temper tantrums when ever someone makes a spelling error I thought that it would be wise to calm them down by apologizing.

  114. on 10 Dec 2012 at 6:31 am 114.Hell Yeah said …

    “Christianity teaches us to love one another and to live happy and peaceful lives.”

    We can also love one another and live happy and peaceful lives in a society without religion. Believing in an imaginary friend and imaginary after life is not the only thing keeping people from not. You religous people are so blind with faith that you have to relate things that aren’t necessary relatable.

  115. on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:53 am 115.The messenger said …

    114.Hell Yeah, if atheists are so good and happy why are all Athiests that I see every day always miserable and upset?

    Religion does not blind people.

    The teaching of our savior Jesus Christ have helped so many people become kinder, peace loving, and happier.

    You are the one who is blind.

  116. on 10 Dec 2012 at 12:54 pm 116.Lou(DFW) said …

    110.The messenger said …

    “In comments 11 and 12 I ment to type the word (maybe), not (made).”

    And in this comment you meant to type meant, not “ment,” correct? Also, you obviously don’t understand the correct usage of quotation marks and parenthesis.

    Messenger, because you can’t provide anything of substance that adds to the actual discussion, all that’s left to do is make fun of your over all stupidity.

  117. on 10 Dec 2012 at 12:59 pm 117.Lou(DFW) said …

    113.The messenger said …

    “112.Anti-Theist, well sense [sic] lou(DPK) and DPK tend to throw temper tantrums when ever [sic] someone makes a spelling error I thought that it would be wise to calm them down by apologizing.”

    Actually, it would be wise for you to stop posting stupid comments. And we don’t “throw temper tantrums” whenever you make grammar errors since (because) it further demonstrates your ignorance.

  118. on 10 Dec 2012 at 1:01 pm 118.Lou(DFW) said …

    104.Wrong Off said …

    “Atheist/Liberals/Progressives are Never Ever happy.”

    ASS, are you still trying to imitate me?

  119. on 10 Dec 2012 at 1:08 pm 119.Lou(DFW) said …

    107.The messenger said …

    “Brother 106.Lou(DFW), the teachings of Christianity have always opposed hate.
    Christianity teaches us to love one another and to live happy and peaceful lives”

    Xtianity is a religion of hate. I don’t even have to quote the Old Testament examples. Nor do I have to use the many acts of violence perpetrated in the name of xtianity. I can ignore the xtian idea that nonbelievers will suffer eternal torment if they don’t agree with its message.

    No, Messenger, I could simply post quote after quote of you personally insulting people here on this blog.

    Messenger, you actually do send a message here – that your belief is a fraud and that you personally are a messenger of lies and hate.

  120. on 10 Dec 2012 at 3:56 pm 120.DPK said …

    112.DPK said …

    on 10 Dec 2012 at 2:48 am 104.Right On said …
    “Atheist/Liberals/Progressives are Never Ever happy.

    and even if this ridiculous lie that you pulled completely out of your ass with absolutely no evidence to support is were in fact true, how does that prove the reality of your imaginary god?

    If I made the unsubstantiated claim that all people who don’t believe in Bigfoot are hate filled, miserable bastards, does that mean Bigfoot is therefore real? Even if it were true, would that mean Bigfoot is therefore real? Then why would you even bring it up? Are you trying to PROVE you’re a moron? Don’t bother, we already know that. Point ceded. If, on the other hand, you are trying to prove your imaginary god actually exists, epic fail. What else you got?

    You idiots are gong to insist on rolling out every illogical, discredits, and even downright absurd argument you can think of to try and sidetrack the discussion, aren’t you. It is really pathetic.

  121. on 10 Dec 2012 at 4:30 pm 121.DPK said …

    107.The messenger said …
    “Christianity teaches us to love one another and to live happy and peaceful lives”

    105.The messenger said …

    101.Lou(DFW), How stupid are you?

    99.The messenger said …

    48.Lou(DFW), I was talking about bible passages, you idiot,

    87.The messenger said …
    I know what a scientist is you idiot.

    81.The messenger said …

    5.alex, no it does not you idiot.

    God loves us nomatter who you are.

    What a shining example of god’s love you are…

  122. on 10 Dec 2012 at 9:23 pm 122.Lou(DFW) said …

    121.DPK said …

    “What a shining example of god’s love you are…”

    Unless Messenger is a liar, he is a spokesman for god. So therefore, god isn’t loving and caring.

  123. on 10 Dec 2012 at 10:43 pm 123.The messenger said …

    If you are being stupid I will be honest to you about it.

  124. on 10 Dec 2012 at 10:58 pm 124.The messenger said …

    119.Lou(DFW), my insults are nothing compared to your insults.

    You use cuss words to insult me and other Christians a lot.

    I never cussed once.

  125. on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:01 pm 125.The messenger said …

    122.Lou(DFW), I should not have fallen to your level of immaturity.

    For that I am sorry.

  126. on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:03 pm 126.The messenger said …

    119.Lou(DFW), the events that occurred in the old testament happened before Christianity was started.

  127. on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:12 pm 127.The messenger said …

    117.Lou(DFW), you have made many spelling errors.

    I am mature Enouph not to focus on them and stay focused on the debate.

    I suggest you do the same.

  128. on 10 Dec 2012 at 11:14 pm 128.The messenger said …

    119.Lou(DFW), I speak of peace.

    You are the one who speaks of hate.

  129. on 11 Dec 2012 at 12:42 am 129.The messenger said …

    122.Lou(DFW), Jesus suffered and died for us.

    He does love us.

  130. on 11 Dec 2012 at 3:33 am 130.Lou(DFW) said …

    123.The messenger said …

    “If you are being stupid I will be honest to you about it.”

    Yet you think that those here who commented similarly about you are not being honest.

    It’s not possible for you to be honest about your religion because your entire religion is based upon a lie.

    Do you agree that all the religions in the world except yours are false?

  131. on 11 Dec 2012 at 4:10 am 131.Anti-Theist said …

    I wasn’t talking about your being forgiven here. I was speaking more along the lines of your trespasses. Xtians cannot go around being bigots , thinking their good people on the premise of dilutional forgiveness. You are not forgiven.

  132. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:56 am 132.Severin said …

    115 Messenger
    “Religion does not blind people.”

    So let us all become Muslims!

  133. on 11 Dec 2012 at 1:23 pm 133.Lou(DFW) said …

    126.The messenger said …

    “119.Lou(DFW), the events that occurred in the old testament happened before Christianity was started.”

    Are you saying that xtians can disregard the word of their imaginary god as it appears in the O.T?

  134. on 11 Dec 2012 at 2:22 pm 134.Jay said …

    Believing in God and at least having what your mind tells you is a loving relationship with Him at least gives you hope. I’d rather have false hope than no hope at all.

    A fine example of Pascal’s Wager right there.

  135. on 11 Dec 2012 at 2:46 pm 135.Lou(DFW) said …

    124.The messenger said …

    “119.Lou(DFW), my insults are nothing compared to your insults.
    You use cuss words to insult me and other Christians a lot.”

    Show me where I did that “a lot.”

    “I never cussed once.”

    So what? Who wrote that you did? It’s irrelevant.

    Now, back to my questions:

    Why does your imaginary god allow innocent children to be killed by natural “disasters?” Or to be born with birth defects?

    How is that part of your imaginary god’s plan?

  136. on 11 Dec 2012 at 4:32 pm 136.DPK said …

    Now Lou, don’t you know anything about christians? Jesus taught them to love and lead happy and peaceful lives and to be kind to everyone. That means you can call someone an idiot or stupid, as long as you don’t “cuss”.
    What is wrong with you? Everyone knows that.
    And by “love one another” obviously Jesus meant “other christians”… he didn’t mean we should love atheists who are bound for {[[HELL}}} along with the Muslims, Jews (christ killers), Buddhists, Hindus, Mormons, and all the other pagans and heretics. He certainly doesn’t want us to love them. All that murdering and stoning and stuff was in the old testament… before god changed his mind about all that. You are so dense you don’t understand that.
    God used to want us to kill queers, now he wants us to not kill them, but just explain to them how they are sinners and will burn in hell for eternity. Don’t you see? God used to want us to own slaves, but then he realized that was wrong so now he doesn’t want us to own slaves. If you are confused about all that, it is because you are so very stupid.

  137. on 11 Dec 2012 at 4:37 pm 137.DPK said …

    And, god gives babies birth defects so that we will take care of them and be blessed, and he kills people by the thousands in natural disasters because he needs them in heaven, and the only way to get to heaven in to die, so what’s wrong with that? He lets innocent children starve as a test of their faith. If they can endure starvation without turning away from god, then they are worthy to go to heaven, where they will be rewarded. It’s actually very nice of him, see? How big an idiot are you, gosh darn it? You even cuss, so that proves you are bad.

  138. on 11 Dec 2012 at 6:21 pm 138.Anonymous said …

    Of course it’s nice of Yahweh, if you’d been listening to messenger and not being “stupid” you’d understand.

    Messenger explained that unless the Christian god treated people badly, his subjects wouldn’t be able to appreciate how well he could treat them. How could you not understand this and not see how wonderful this god is being by mistreating people for the benefit of all mankind?

    Bible-god’s behavior has elements in common in concept and execution with how abusers and rapists groom their victims.

  139. on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:19 pm 139.The messenger said …

    132.Severin, I am supporting Christianity and Judaism.

    Not Islam.

  140. on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:23 pm 140.The messenger said …

    138.Anonymous, that is not what I said at all.

    God does not care very much about appreciation.

    God puts struggles in our lives so that we may overcome them.

    He only cares if we are morally good people.

  141. on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:30 pm 141.The messenger said …

    137.DPK, the only reason that he allows that to happen is because he wants us to realize that our outward appearances do not matter.

    Being a good person has nothing to do with looking good on the outside.

  142. on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:35 pm 142.The messenger said …

    137.DPK God does not need anyone in heaven.

    The reason that he allows people to die is because their time on Earth is over.

    Life is a moral test.

    If a person has been good, he or she will go to heaven.

    Heaven is a paridice that never ends.

  143. on 11 Dec 2012 at 9:51 pm 143.The messenger said …

    133.Lou(DFW), no they cannot.

    The old tesiment has some of God’s greatest lessons in it.

    For example, the story of David and Goliath. That story teaches us that even without physical strength you can still stand up for what is right.

    Now tell me, HOW IS THAT EVIL?

  144. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:38 pm 144.Lou(DFW) said …

    141.The messenger said …

    “137.DPK, the only reason that he allows that to happen is because he wants us to realize that our outward appearances do not matter.
    Being a good person has nothing to do with looking good on the outside.”

    DPK, have have ever heard a more nonsensical bunch of convoluted rationalization in your life?

  145. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:43 pm 145.Lou(DFW) said …

    143.The messenger said …

    “133.Lou(DFW), no they cannot.
    The old tesiment has some of God’s greatest lessons in it.”

    The how is your comment “119.Lou(DFW), the events that occurred in the old testament happened before Christianity was started” relevant?

    “For example, the story of David and Goliath. That story teaches us that even without physical strength you can still stand up for what is right.
    Now tell me, HOW IS THAT EVIL?”

    I didn’t write that it was. A logical, rational conversation with you is impossible. Your imaginary god must have intentionally made you stupid and irrational in order for you to “overcome” it.

  146. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:44 pm 146.Lou(DFW) said …

    141.The messenger said …

    “137.DPK, the only reason that he allows that to happen is because he wants us to realize that our outward appearances do not matter.
    Being a good person has nothing to do with looking good on the outside.”

    Are you actually that freaking stupid?! Birth defects include far more than defects in appearance.

  147. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:52 pm 147.The messenger said …

    146.Lou(DFW), the birth defects that involve the brain and muscles are thier to teach us that it does not matter if we are smart or physically strong, god loves us all equally regardless. And eventually we will all be in eternal paridice.

  148. on 11 Dec 2012 at 10:55 pm 148.The messenger said …

    145.Lou(DFW), it seemed like you did not realize that.

    I was just trying to inform you.

  149. on 12 Dec 2012 at 12:07 am 149.The messenger said …

    144.Lou(DFW), explain to me, how is comment 143 nonsensical?

  150. on 12 Dec 2012 at 1:18 am 150.Tom said …

    “A fine example of Pascal’s Wager right there.”

    Why not? The wager has never been lost.

  151. on 12 Dec 2012 at 3:10 am 151.Lou(DFW) said …

    147.Tom said …

    “A fine example of Pascal’s Wager right there.”

    “Why not? The wager has never been lost.”

    It’s always a losing wager. As Sam Harris wrote:

    “But the greatest problem with the wager—and it is a problem that infects religious thinking generally—is its suggestion that a rational person can knowingly will himself to believe a proposition for which he has no evidence. A person can profess any creed he likes, of course, but to really believe something, he must also believe that the belief under consideration is true. To believe that there is a God, for instance, is to believe that you are not just fooling yourself; it is to believe that you stand in some relation to God’s existence such that, if He didn’t exist, you wouldn’t believe in him. How does Pascal’s wager fit into this scheme? It doesn’t.

    Beliefs are not like clothing: comfort, utility, and attractiveness cannot be one’s conscious criteria for acquiring them. It is true that people often believe things for bad reasons—self-deception, wishful thinking, and a wide variety of other cognitive biases really do cloud our thinking—but bad reasons only tend to work when they are unrecognized. Pascal’s wager suggests that a rational person can knowingly believe a proposition purely out of concern for his future gratification. I suspect no one ever acquires his religious beliefs in this way (Pascal certainly didn’t). But even if some people do, who could be so foolish as to think that such beliefs are likely to be true?”

    Furthermore, it’s a wager than can’t be won because it requires an ante that’s not known to exist – a soul.

  152. on 12 Dec 2012 at 5:33 am 152.Anonymous said …

    “Tom” said, “Why not? The wager has never been lost”

    Prove it.

  153. on 12 Dec 2012 at 7:45 am 153.Severin said …

    115 messenger
    “Religion does not blind people.””

    139 Messenger
    “132.Severin, I am supporting Christianity and Judaism.
    Not Islam.”

    Islam is not religion?

    Can yo ever say anything thtat has any sense?

    Now:
    “Everything that happens to us happens with purpose, it is all a part of our father’s plan”
    The purpose of
    Holocaust
    Starving children
    Etc, etc, etc …is?

  154. on 12 Dec 2012 at 7:58 am 154.Severin said …

    “The outward appearance do not matter”

    God loves him alive or dead.
    That is all that metters.

    http://tinyurl.com/c2nehst

  155. on 12 Dec 2012 at 9:51 am 155.alex said …

    152.Anonymous said …

    “Tom” said, “Why not? The wager has never been lost”

    “Prove it.”

    As somebody pointed out, maybe the real God condemns to hell, ONLY the morons who believe in the wrong god. With the many gods to choose from, isn’t it better odds not to pick one?

  156. on 12 Dec 2012 at 11:51 am 156.Anonymous said …

    155 – right, but I am asking him to prove his claim that it has never been lost. It was a clearly stated, now let’s seem him back it up with facts.

  157. on 12 Dec 2012 at 1:06 pm 157.Lou(DFW) said …

    147.The messenger said …

    “146.Lou(DFW), the birth defects that involve the brain and muscles are thier to teach us that it does not matter if we are smart or physically strong, god loves us all equally regardless. And eventually we will all be in eternal paridice.”

    Why doesn’t your imaginary god simply show his love for me?

    My parents loved me. I know that because they directly told me and demonstrated it to me. They didn’t hide it from me. They didn’t beat and starve my siblings as a demonstration of their love for me.

  158. on 12 Dec 2012 at 1:10 pm 158.Lou(DFW) said …

    149.The messenger said …

    “144.Lou(DFW), explain to me, how is comment 143 nonsensical?”

    Because it’s a non sequitur. Just as are the majority of your comments. That’s why it’s impossible to have rational, logical discussion with you.

  159. on 12 Dec 2012 at 1:13 pm 159.Lou(DFW) said …

    140.The messenger said …

    “God puts struggles in our lives so that we may overcome them.”

    How does a starving child overcome the struggle of starvation?

    Why do some people have very few struggles while other people have a disproportionate share?

  160. on 12 Dec 2012 at 3:00 pm 160.Lou(DFW) said …

    140.The messenger said …

    “God does not care very much about appreciation.”

    Yet he will send you to hell if you don’t “appreciate” him.

    “God puts struggles in our lives so that we may overcome them.”

    Stephen Hawking overcame a very great “struggle.” He said “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.”

    “He only cares if we are morally good people.”

    Is Stephen Hawking “morally good?”

  161. on 12 Dec 2012 at 5:24 pm 161.Anonymou said …

    I am a Christian. I understand that for this reason many of you will discount my opinion, saying I am delusional, ignorant to the obvious, etc.–especially by those who say there is no way they can be convinced of the existence of God due to the hardness of their hearts. For those who really are on this blog to discover the truth, I say to you that a blog of any kind(Christian or otherwise) is not where you will find it. I would urge you to look to the source of this controversy–the Bible–and decide for yourself if God is real, going in with an open mind and an un-hardened heart. Please allow me to share my faith, as well as pose some questions.

    God never promises to do anything for those who have no faith in him. Why would he? He does, however, promise to listen and work for the good of those who love him. Does this explain why those who are Christians seem to “know” God is real(because they have faith, and love Him)and thus, are the only ones able to see Him working in their lives/answering prayers/performing miracles? To be certain, if one who does not believe asks for something(even in prayer) for his own benefit, God promises this man nothing. God works in response to faith–believing in something without seeing it, believing totally in the almighty power of God that He can do all things. If someone cries out to the Lord, allowing him to show up and believing that he not only has the power to do so, but that he WILL show up and save that person(all this is to say:having FAITH), He will answer. Faith is not believing what you have already seen, it is believing before anything is revealed to you.

    What do nonbelievers say about the miracles Jesus did while on earth, that were documented and seen by thousands of people and written in the Bible?

    Are nonbelievers aware of the miracles of healing that are done EVERY SINGLE DAY by God through the power of prayer and faith?

    These questions lead me to my next point, which is speaking directly to the “ask Jesus to appear” on Godisimaginary.com. Believers would agree that Faith is what allows one to know God/Jesus/Holy Spirit. I believe this is exactly why Jesus will not physically “show up” when we ask that, and that is why I doubt if many believers would pray for that. If Jesus came down to this earth every time someone lost faith and asked him to appear, there would be not reason then to HAVE this faith, which is essential for God to work through. If Jesus showed up every time we asked, would we have charcter? would we try hard? would we love others? or would we expect Him to solve all the problems we encounter… Do we need to have faith to know that cars exist? No. And this is why we don’t see Jesus in this world. Faith is necessary.

    I never like to use rationality to justify my faith, because it is not necessary. I have experienced him do miracles both unseen and PHYSICAL that prove his existence. But, as I suspect many of you on this blog are basing your decision on rationality, I offer these options:

    a. you are Christian and God exists–> eternity in Heaven
    b. you are a Christian and God does not exist–> become a tree/ashes/etc.

    c. you are Atheist and God exists–> eternity in hell
    d. you are Atheist and God does not exist–> become a tree/ashes/etc.

    Therefore, the only RATIONAL choice is the one that allows the possibility of spending an eternity in Heaven. And I assure you, the Heaven of the God of the Universe is far greater than any ‘reincarnation’ or form on this earth.

  162. on 12 Dec 2012 at 6:22 pm 162.DPK said …

    Thank you for sharing your experience. Let me share mine. I was raised a Christian. I have read the bible. I tried to believe, but, since the age of reason, about 13-15, I “knew” it was all a lie, made up stuff. None the less, I gave it my best.. I went to church, I attended prayer meetings, went to retreats. For a while I even tried the born again pentacostals and prayed fervently for Jesus to come into my life and for the Holy Spirit to fill me.
    Nothing happened.
    I read the bible again as an adult, and no single thing cemented by atheism as reading it as a mature adult without some church authority figure either “interpreting” it for me or spoon feeding me the passages they wanted me to hear. It occurred to me that if god was real, he would present his perfect word to mankind in a way that wouldn’t require someone else to tell me what he “really” meant. If he was perfect, his word would be perfect, and if he where real, he wouldn’t have made me with an inability to believe in him.
    So, yes to me, your testament does indeed sound very much like delusion. Basically, what you are saying is that you have to believe without question before you can believe without question. Kind of the cart leading the horse, no?
    As for your restatement of Pascal’s wager… you are missing some key elements to your logic:
    If you are a Christian, and god is real, but not the christian god– eternity in hell.
    If you are christian, and god does not accept belief for the self serving purpose of gaining heaven– eternity in hell. Maybe god rewards honesty more than faith born of fear, ignorance, or delusion. Hmmm?
    If you are a christian, and god does not care whether you believe in him or not… well, your and my fate is the same, whatever it is.
    If you are a christian, and god values the use of the rational function he graced us with more than blind faith which has not served mankind very well, historically… then maybe I get to heaven and YOU go to hell.
    So, your wager is only valid within the narrow confines of some VERY limited “Ifs”… and if any of them are wrong… you loose. Not so rational a choice after all, is it?

  163. on 12 Dec 2012 at 7:29 pm 163.Lou(DFW) said …

    161.Anonymou said …

    “And I assure you, the Heaven of the God of the Universe is far greater than any ‘reincarnation’ or form on this earth.”

    Your “assurance” and your testimony means dick.

    Where is the evidence for your imaginary god?

  164. on 12 Dec 2012 at 7:46 pm 164.G said …

    Pascal was absolutely correct. From a perspective of logic only, if God is not real, atheists and Christians get the same fate. If Christians are correct, well, they obviously enjoy a wonderful fate.

    Atheists will muddy the waters with irrelevant comments but Pascal was only comparing the two worldviews.

  165. on 12 Dec 2012 at 8:26 pm 165.Lou(DFW) said …

    164.G said …

    “Pascal was absolutely correct.”

    Correct about what? That an imaginary god can be fooled by feigned belief?

    “Atheists will muddy the waters with irrelevant comments but Pascal was only comparing the two worldviews.”

    Actually, it’s theists who “muddy the water” by refusing to provide evidence for their imaginary god, but who rather argue over diversionary tangents.

  166. on 12 Dec 2012 at 8:35 pm 166.DPK said …

    No, Pascal was only correct if the Christian God of the bible is real, AND if he behaves only the way that Pascal expects him to behave, then sure. But tell us something… how does one “decide” to believe?
    I doubt the Christian god of the bible, who is by all accounts a jealous and vindictive s.o.b, is going to be fooled by anyone claiming to believe in him “just to be safe”. So, in that aspect, Pascal fails… miserably. I mean, claiming to believe in Santa isn’t the same as actually believing in Santa, is it now? And claiming to believe in god because it seems like a safer bet… which is what Pascal’s Wager proposes… well, that ain’t gonna work, is it?
    Only an idiot would think it would fool the almighty.
    And, if you get to heaven and Zeus is waiting for you, you’re fucked.
    Then there is the problem of you living the only life you have in servitude to and in fear of a completely imaginary being. So, on the chance of a 2nd life, you waste the one you actually have? Not too smart. But then again, nobody here is suggesting theists are particularly smart.

  167. on 12 Dec 2012 at 8:56 pm 167.The messenger said …

    160.Lou(DFW), Jesus will not send you to hell if you do not appreciate him.

    He will only sed you to hell if you break his laws and are not sorry about it.

  168. on 12 Dec 2012 at 8:59 pm 168.The messenger said …

    153.Severin, I have answered that question many times in my previous comments.

    Stop asking me the same questions over and over.

  169. on 12 Dec 2012 at 9:03 pm 169.The messenger said …

    166.DPK, Jesus is not jealous or evil.

    He is never vengeful.

    He doesnot punish, he only teaches.

  170. on 12 Dec 2012 at 10:17 pm 170.alex said …

    “Faith is necessary.”

    yeah, for idiots. with all your scary hell shit, have you ever heard of one atheist that converted because of your bullshit pascal’s bet?

    you don’t have to be a genius to dismiss similar wagers regarding muslim heaven, hindu heaven, or any other bullshit heaven. it’s a fantasy, with all the virgins, multiple wives, no suffering, seeing loved ones, et all. bunches of bullshit.

    if pascal’s wager is true, why do you think atheists won’t bet? i guess i should bet on santa, since i’ve got nothing to lose. and the tooth fairy and the great pumpkin, and on, and on…..

  171. on 12 Dec 2012 at 10:20 pm 171.MrQ said …

    From G:

    a. you are Christian and (a Christian) God exists–> eternity in Heaven (if you choose the proper branch of Christianity to show your reverance (Or does a Baptist = a Mormon = Catholic = Koreshian = free pass))
    b. you are a Christian and God does not exist–> become a tree/ashes/etc.

    c. you are Atheist and (a Christian) God exists–> eternity in hell
    d. you are Atheist and (a Christian) God does not exist–> become a tree/ashes/etc.

    (My additions/revisions in brackets)

    Slightly modified again, we get only two options:
    a. you are a Christian and a Muslim God exists–> eternity in Hell
    b. you are any living creature and God does not exist–> become a tree/ashes/etc.

    Looks like we’re all fucked. Does it not Mr G?

  172. on 12 Dec 2012 at 10:52 pm 172.The messenger said …

    157.Lou(DFW), Jesus show you his love by letting you live and giving you friends and family and people who care about you.

    If he did not love you, he would take all of that away and send you to Hell.

    Be thankful for your the gifts that you have been given.

  173. on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:09 am 173.Anonymous said …

    So, we are hearing that one of the best argument we have for Christianity is “well, just in case”.

    Unfortunately, the odds for any particular sect or denomination of any religion (others make the same case, and there are thousands of possible gods and tens of thousands (40, 000+) different denominations) mean that the wager only serves as a post-hoc rationalization.

    At the end of the day, if someone needs to excuse the total lack of evidence for why a bronze-age superstition is anything but myth and fairytale with “what if your’re wrong?”, then they are only interested in emotional arguments anyway.

  174. on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:25 am 174.Anonymous said …

    By the way, to the Christian who posted earlier, an open-mind and unhardened heart in your book means believing any old shit particularly if it is contrary to reality. The other way to describe it is being hopelessly gullible

  175. on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:57 am 175.DPK said …

    So, we are hearing that one of the best argument we have for Christianity is “well, just in case”.

    Actually, it’s the “last ditch” argument for Christianity. The fall back position when they realize everything else is bullshit. ” better safe than sorry,” and the “what have you got to lose?” argument. But, like most of what they offer, falls completely apart when considered with a rational mind.

  176. on 13 Dec 2012 at 2:23 am 176.Right Again said …

    “From a perspective of logic only, if God is not real, atheists and Christians get the same fate. If Christians are correct, well, they obviously enjoy a wonderful fate.”

    G just one of the many shortcomings of atheism. Atheism takes the ultimate risk that creation was created by the god know as natural selection/magical big bangs and that man has no spirit that lives on. Pascal was brilliant and he realized logically Christianity is a better wager and showed that. But not just better logically but also practically, relationally and metaphysically.

  177. on 13 Dec 2012 at 2:26 am 177.Right Again said …

    “Unfortunately, the odds for any particular sect or denomination of any religion (others make the same case, and there are thousands of possible gods and tens of thousands (40, 000+) different denominations) mean that the wager only serves as a post-hoc rationalization.”

    Anony fails to post a valid thought. However, if he/she would like to try again show us the math for these odds you began to share.

  178. on 13 Dec 2012 at 2:31 am 178.alex said …

    “Atheism takes the ultimate risk that creation was created by the god know as natural selection/magical big bangs and that man has no spirit that lives on”

    you a lyin bitch. where did you get that? from your ass, just like your god?

  179. on 13 Dec 2012 at 3:33 am 179.Anonymous said …

    172 sigh. Fresh sock puppet, same old shit. I apologize if you need help in understanding what tens of thousands mean. I’ll try to write down to your level next time.

  180. on 13 Dec 2012 at 4:14 am 180.Lou(DFW) said …

    172.The messenger said …

    “157.Lou(DFW), Jesus show you his love by letting you live and giving you friends and family and people who care about you.”

    What about people who lost in a tornado their “friends and family and people who care about” them? How is that an expression of love?

    “If he did not love you, he would take all of that away and send you to Hell.”

    First you say that we must overcome struggles when he takes those things from us. But you also say if he didn’t love us then he would “take all of that away.”

    “Be thankful for your the gifts that you have been given.”

    But the people who are NOT given gifts should also be thankful?

    And how are the starving children or people drowned or made homeless by a tsunami to be thankful?

  181. on 13 Dec 2012 at 4:22 am 181.Lou(DFW) said …

    176.Right Again (ASS) said to G (ASS)…

    “Atheism takes the ultimate risk that creation was created by the god know as natural selection/magical big bangs and that man has no spirit that lives on.”

    First of all, ASS, you liar, those are not tenets of “atheism.” Second, they are not risks. Third, you don’t have any evidence at all that man has a “spirit that lives on.”

    “Pascal was brilliant and he realized logically Christianity is a better wager and showed that. But not just better logically but also practically, relationally [sic] and metaphysically.”

    Ah, the tired, old, appeal to authority argument fallacy. But, let’s use your tactic – Stephen Hawking is much more brilliant than was Pascal, and he disputes all of your sky-daddy delusion. So by your own reasoning, you lose.

  182. on 13 Dec 2012 at 4:25 am 182.Lou(DFW) said …

    177.Right Again said …

    “However, if he/she would like to try again show us the math for these odds you began to share.”

    Yes, please show ASStrophysicist how to do some simple math. He’s too ignorant to understand something so simple.

  183. on 13 Dec 2012 at 6:14 am 183.MrQ said …

    right again:

    just one of the many shortcomings of atheism. Atheism takes the ultimate risk that creation was created by the god know as natural selection/magical big bangs and that man has no spirit that lives on.

    And if we examine the evidence we see that the universe is indeed expanding, almost as if it started from a very much smaller “size” some 10+ billion years ago. Much research and observation (just look into “Hubble Space Telescope”, for example) takes away the “magical” of the big bang. Maybe god was the “magical” spark, just show me the proof.

    Please expand, if you would, on the spirit of men that lives on. Is this an essence that is only applicable to humans? As a bonus, let the audience (and myself) know what you believe the age of the Earth to be. Let’s see where this gets us!!

  184. on 13 Dec 2012 at 7:11 am 184.Hell Yeah said …

    “115.The messenger said …
    114.Hell Yeah, if atheists are so good and happy why are all Athiests that I see every day always miserable and upset?

    Religion does not blind people.
    The teaching of our savior Jesus Christ have helped so many people become kinder, peace loving, and happier.
    You are the one who is blind.”

    Wouldn’t you be miserable and upset once you realize the truth that there is no afterlife? Religion blinds people in the reality that there is no afterlife. It makes them think they will live on in some form after they are dead, so they then have a care free life and not afraid of dying. All religions are made up so people don’t panic about their own demise. And besides, you are wrong that all athiests that you see are miserable and upset….you probably see a lot of happy ones that don’t shout out to the world that they are athiests, so you don’t even know they are athiests and you blindly walk by them.

  185. on 13 Dec 2012 at 7:31 am 185.Hell Yeah said …

    “164.G said …
    Pascal was absolutely correct. From a perspective of logic only, if God is not real, atheists and Christians get the same fate. If Christians are correct, well, they obviously enjoy a wonderful fate.”

    But if god is not real, Christians miss out on the things in life that atheists get to experience….the things you Christians think of as sins, which really aren’t…..and I am not talking about the things we both can agree are bad regardless of religion or not. Remember, we only live once. Why use your only time to miss out on things because you have false hope of something that will never happen. Enjoy life while you can. And don’t say doing all the religous stuff is fun…because you only think it is fun because you think you are getting a reward for it, but once you realize there is no reward, it isn’t fun anymore…..and don’t say being nice and kind because of religion is your reward, because you can have that without religion. Religion is just a mask.

  186. on 13 Dec 2012 at 11:50 am 186.Right Again & Again said …

    “Enjoy life while you can.”

    Ah, the same old tired argument. “Christians don’t enjoy life because they believe in God” lol!

    I enjoy life abundantly!

    Thelma-Lou, look up the definition of appeal to authority my boy. If you used it correctly I would be impressed.

    Anony, still looking for the mathematics. Back up your claims there cowboy. Remember to show how you work on how you assign equal value to each worldview including yours.

  187. on 13 Dec 2012 at 12:53 pm 187.Lou(DFW) said …

    186.Right Again & Again said …

    “Ah, the same old tired argument. “Christians don’t enjoy life because they believe in God” lol!”

    ASS, you liar. Show us where anybody wrote that.

    It’s simply amazing that you think that you can post outright lies and get away with them.

  188. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:00 pm 188.Lou(DFW) said …

    186.Right Again (ASS) & Again (ASS) said …

    “Thelma-Lou, look up the definition of appeal to authority my boy.”

    ASS, I did. There’s no such thing as “appeal to authority my boy.”

    But your use of “brilliant” Pascal to support your argument that god is real is an “appeal to authority,” not an “”appeal to authority my boy.”

  189. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:03 pm 189.Lou(DFW) said …

    186.Right, ASS Again & Again said …

    “I enjoy life abundantly!”

    So do little children who know nothing about the reality of the world and who believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, but that doesn’t mean that imaginary beings are real.

  190. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:04 pm 190.RevWillyNilly said …

    “161.Anonymou said …

    I understand that for this reason many of you will discount my opinion, saying I am delusional, ignorant to the obvious, etc.–especially by those who say there is no way they can be convinced of the existence of God due to the hardness of their hearts.”

    This seems to be a common misconception amongst theists. I can’t speak for all atheists, but I personally never say that there is no way I can be convinced of the existence of God. I just don’t find your “proof” particularly convincing. If God were to appear right beside me in my living room right now (He is all-powerful after all, no?), I’d have little choice but to believe. Of course, according to you, something like this would be impossible since you need faith to believe in God and actually KNOWING God exists would eliminate the need for faith (makes sense).

    “If Jesus showed up every time we asked, would we have character? Would we try hard? Would we love others?”

    I have character. I work hard (sometimes). I even love others. Yet, I don’t have faith. So why do I possess these qualities? Because I was raised by decent parents who taught me how to love and work hard, which (among other things) builds character. And the craziest part about it? I didn’t even have to have faith that my parents existed… I KNEW they existed. My dad wasn’t hiding in the closest and using my mother as a messenger to teach me all these things.

    “God never promises to do anything for those who have no faith in him. Why would he?”

    Because He loooooves us, remember?

    The rest of your post is a bunch of nonsense and not even worth responding to. You’ve got faith in God and are able to see all the miracles He performs? Great. Put your faith into Joe Pesci (to paraphrase George Carlin) and I’m sure you’ll continue to see all those miracles… But only if you TRULY have faith in Joe Pesci.

  191. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:14 pm 191.Lou(DFW) said …

    184.Hell Yeah said …

    “Religion blinds people in the reality that there is no afterlife. It makes them think they will live on in some form after they are dead, so they then have a care free life and not afraid of dying.”

    I must disagree to some extent with you about that.

    First, it’s obvious that they ARE afraid of dying. Theists exhibit the same anguish and despair as they approach their death or when their loved ones die.

    Second, they continue to lead lives of crime and sin despite the threat of hell, but they rationalize it by thinking they will be forgiven simply by confessing their sins and/or accepting Jesus as their “savior.”

  192. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:20 pm 192.Lou(DFW) said …

    190.RevWillyNilly said …

    “This seems to be a common misconception amongst theists. I can’t speak for all atheists, but I personally never say that there is no way I can be convinced of the existence of God.”

    Exactly. I can easily be convinced that god exists if he simply revealed himself to me. The idea that we can’t be convinced is simply another theist lie that’s used to support their delusion.

    Faith is the foundation of religion. KNOWING that god exists would completely eliminate faith. Ironic, isn’t it?

  193. on 13 Dec 2012 at 1:54 pm 193.alex said …

    “an open-mind and unhardened heart”

    what a fucken joke. if budda, zeus, allah, or ra showed up and proved they’re god, i’ll be the first to acknowledge. can you idiot theists say the same thing? open mind to gender equality, no? homosexuality, no? but you like that stoning shit, yes?

    you still doubtful, i can be convinced? i said before, to convince me doesn’t take much. just regenerate ONE motherfucken limb. easy for a god.

  194. on 13 Dec 2012 at 2:17 pm 194.Anti-Theist said …

    Murder, steal, lie, rape, and discriminate with a smile. This world is meaningless and your going to heaven.

  195. on 13 Dec 2012 at 4:17 pm 195.Hell Yeah said …

    “First, it’s obvious that they ARE afraid of dying. Theists exhibit the same anguish and despair as they approach their death or when their loved ones die.”

    I suppose the threat of hell if they don’t fulfill their religion, or the fact that they could be wrong about an afterlife. But those who have it drilled in their head that they will for sure be going to heaven, they don’t have to worry about dying as much…..that was more of the point I was making. I do understand your point as well, though.

  196. on 13 Dec 2012 at 4:32 pm 196.Anonymous said …

    oh look, right or right-again just outed himself again by carrying on an argument and his predicted insults, but in his case it’s more like a vendetta, that he started as a different sick-puppet [sic].

    You are in no position to demand anything of anyone here. You only do it to derail the conversation. So, produce evidence for your god, answer the questions you ran away from by posing as another identity, or just plain go away. Folks, it’s about time we just ignored this clown. An honest discussion with this game-player isn’t going to happen.

  197. on 13 Dec 2012 at 5:20 pm 197.Lou(DFW) said …

    196.Anonymous said …

    “Folks, it’s about time we just ignored this clown. An honest discussion with this game-player isn’t going to happen.”

    Yes, it’s obviously A the ASStrophysicist.

    And yes, an honest discussion with him is impossible because he’s a pathological liar.

  198. on 13 Dec 2012 at 6:14 pm 198.Anon 161 said …

    162 DPK

    “Kind of cart leading the horse, no?” Sure, call it what you want. The point is that if it were the other way around, the problems we have today would pale in comparison to those we would experience if the “horse lead the cart”.

    God doesn’t answer every prayer(such as appearing as physical proof of his existence, which YES HE COULD DO) because his wisdom is far greater than ours. Consider a child that wants something, say to eat candy for breakfast. He thinks this is in his best interest if he gets it(he will be happy and satisfied).When this child comes to his father and asks for candy for breakfast, the father would say no because in his wisdom that far surpasses his child, he knows that eating candy for breakfast is not best.

    We are the child, and God is the Father. Our mistake as humans is thinking we know what is in our best interest–we DO NOT. We assume we have(or should) have control over everything, but we don’t. And isn’t this particularly contradictory to a world that is random, one without divine creation/plan?

  199. on 13 Dec 2012 at 6:22 pm 199.DPK said …

    But lying for Jesus doesn’t count…….
    It’s right there in the Christian code of morality on page_____, uh, page _____, wait, I know it was right here on page ____, oh no, that’s the stone the adulterers, wait, kill all the first born males, no, rip open the pregnant women, stone those who work on the sabbath… nope, how to beat your slaves… hmmm… can’t seem to find it right now, but obviously, god meant it was ok to lie as long as the lie helped promote christianity and spread peace and love. Once you learn to interpret “Thou shalt not bear false witness”… in context… you’ll understand. Or maybe you won’t since as an atheist, you are completely amoral.

  200. on 13 Dec 2012 at 6:26 pm 200.Help said …

    Trying to understand the non Christian perspective; would someone please answer a few questions:

    I wonder, when atheists feel especially thankful, who do you thank?

    Why do you waste the only life you have to life trying to convince Christians that there is no God?

    What do you say to the ‘humility theory of wisdom’? ie. someone is wise when he/she understands that they are not wise? Do Atheist dispute this? It seems that Christians are more willing to admit they do not know anything compared to divine wisdom, while Atheists seem to have it all figured out. Anyone care to provide an alternate view?

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