Feed on Posts or Comments 01 September 2014

Christianity &Islam &Judaism Thomas on 29 Oct 2012 12:47 am

If you believe in God, you have to explain this…

Let’s imagine that you believe in God. You believe God is up in heaven, watching us, answering our prayers, punishing people who do evil, etc. If this is what you believe, then you have to explain what God is doing in this situation:

Deeply Religious Newburgh Man Crushed By Falling Crucifix, Loses Leg

David Jimenez believed his devotion to a crucifix was responsible for his wife being cured of cancer. Well, the crucifix fell on him, crushing one of his legs.

And as CBS 2’s John Slattery reported Friday, the leg had to be amputated.

Jimenez sees tragic irony in losing his leg to a crucifix he had prayed to. The crucifix had been outside the Church of St. Patrick in Newburgh. For months, the 45-year-old pizza worker would stop and pray at the crucifix, that his wife would be cured of ovarian cancer.

And she was.

“David attributed the cure to his devotion to that cross,” Jimenez attorney Kevin Kitson said.

Because of that, Jimenez said, he got permission to clean the crucifix, which was long-neglected. But in doing so, the statue dislodged and toppled onto him.

The religious person has to explain first why God would allow the statue to topple on a devoted Christian who was cleaning the statue. Then the religious person has to explain why God won’t heal amputees. The whole situation is like an anti-God movie trailer.

What does an intelligent, rational person understand? That God is imaginary and the cancer cure, the toppling statue and the amputated limb are all random events. Why would anyone want to believe in a God who intentionally damages people? Or a God who selectively ignores the prayers of all amputees? It is so easy to see that there is no God. Even if there were to be one, the only thing we could conclude is that he is an insane monster.

116 Responses to “If you believe in God, you have to explain this…”

  1. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:02 am 1.TheJesusFreak said …

    Well one, if God were an insane monster, and He were omnipotent, we’d all be dead. Two, worshipping a crucifix is somewhat unchristian. Worship God, not some statue. As for his wife being cured of cancer, well, maybe it was God, maybe it wasn’t. I don’t have the authority to say either way. I wouldn’t be so quick to blame something like this on God. God certainly could’ve prevented it, but before you say that God meant to hurt and discourage this man, read the book of Job.

  2. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:06 am 2.TheJesusFreak said …

    Oh yes, and as for what God is doing in this situation, I really have no idea other than that it’s for His plan. I cannot predict the mind of God though. Keep watching the situation and see what God does.

  3. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:56 am 3.Anonymous said …

    First, let’s all be clear that this is a tragic accident. It’s not a laughing matter. This man has had his life irrevocably changed.

    Still, there’s an addendum to this story that is missing above. Following his accident, Jiminez has filed suit against the church.

    As a result of his injury, Jimenez, 45, can’t work and has filed a negligence lawsuit against the church. The suit is to go to trial in the next few weeks, said Jimenez’s attorney, Kevin Kitson.

    Kitson said the priest was negligent in “telling someone to go forward with an action and causing this accident.”

    Kitson said the insurance company representing the Archdiocese of New York has not offered to settle the case so he will be seeking between $2 million and $3 million for Mr. Jimenez’s injury.

    Does this mean that his god, somehow, wanted this man to get $2 million dollars so he arranged for the statue to not be maintained, the man’s wife to get cancer, him to maintain it, then toppled a statue on him – just like the bullet-dodging brain defect? Or is it more sensible to agree that random things happen?

  4. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:58 am 4.Anonymous said …

    adding to above, and that’s why this god doesn’t heal this amputee because he’s due for a pay day?

  5. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:21 am 5.TheJesusFreak said …

    Honestly, I can’t speak for this man, nor am I able to affirm his beliefs. I am not defending this man, I’m defending God. As to whether I think God means for this guy to make $2 million bucks, as I have said, I have no idea, but I doubt it.

  6. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:35 am 6.Anonymous said …

    So, TJF, do you believe that your god has a plan? In which case this would be preordained. The question would be why would a loving god do this to a devoted follower?

    Or, would you say that things just happen (free-will whatever you wish to call it) but your god has the ability to intervene. In which case he chose not to. Then, why not?

    Or, does the god of the bible not have a plan and he also doesn’t intervene. In which case that would be indistinguishable from nonexistence and would conflict with all the other claims of intervention.

    So, given the above. How do you reconcile the actions of a devoted follower being maimed as he was with the concept of a loving god? If there’s another option, of course, do explain what that would be.

  7. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:50 am 7.The messenger said …

    David was not devoted to a cross, he was devoted to God.

    I do not know why God wanted that cross to fall on him, but I do think that it happened for a reason, we may not understand that reason yet but I am sure that we will.

  8. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:51 am 8.TheJesusFreak said …

    One, yes I do believe that God has a plan. Two, if this man is a devoted believer, which I remain uncertain of, at least to the correct God, then I have a story for you. I have a friend of mine who was a very devoted believer of God. But about a year ago, 11 close friends of hers died, many of them in suicide. One may wonder where God’s hand is in a this. She was very angry with God to say the least. Many would have turned their backs in God forever. She did not. She came back, and now has a powerful story to share about how God worked in her life. While the conditions seemed irreconcilable at the time, she has turned into one of the strongest people I know. God worked it out. I’m not sure what God has planned for this man, but something is planned, I can assure you of that.

  9. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:57 am 9.The messenger said …

    I think that God was testing David’s faith to see if he would keep his faith in God and his teachings.

    It was probably a hard test, but no one said that it would be easy.

  10. on 29 Oct 2012 at 6:42 am 10.Anonymous said …

    “Two, if this man is a devoted believer, which I remain uncertain of, at least to the correct God, then I have a story for you”

    What makes you say this? This man believes that his wife was cured through his prayers. Which god was correct and which was not, as I thought he was praying to your god? You’ve seen something there that I missed; what was it?

    How is your story about your friend different from Jimenez? Neither story seems to present any indication of supernatural events. It seems though that you see supernatural events in one and not the other. How so?

    Finally, when you say you are sure god has something planned but you do not what it is, then how can you know that? What is different from what you would expect if no gods existed?

  11. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:04 pm 11.Anonymous said …

    By the way, what could be a clearer example of not having faith that your god will deliver than suing your own church? The church loses at this point no matter the outcome. Most Christians I know would argue that 1 Corinthians 6:1-3 and 6-7 say you should not sue another Christian.

    If someone replies “well, that’s god acting in mysterious ways”, then you’re also indicating that the church doesn’t inherently have the best interests of its congregation at heart and you contradict Paul above.

    Likewise, should the man win – and the dioceses has already declined to settle the suit – then we could also argue that the church was being deceitful in not providing in the first place.

    If he does obtain a settlement, will he then donate the money to the church? After all, it was through them that he believes his wife was healed.

    Why not just pray to his god to be healed? He believes his wife was healed through prayer, why does it not happen to him? Also, why does his congregation not pray for his limb to regrow? Here is a chance for an unambiguous demonstration yet no-one even appears to want to try. Why not and isn’t that telling?

    TheJesusFreak, it would be interesting to see you directly address these question. As a believer, one would think subjects such as these would be important considerations and insights into your faith.

  12. on 29 Oct 2012 at 1:56 pm 12.TheJesusFreak said …

    Okay so what makes me doubtful on wether or not he truly is a Christian at all is because of his practices. Worshipping a crucifix is not at all Biblical. Just because he claims God healed his wife does not prove he is a religious follower of the true God. I could claim that Muhammad Ali healed my wife of ovarian cancer, and maybe my wife did survive ovarian cancer, but just because I claim it was Muhammad Ali does not mean that it was.
    I’m going to skip your next question ad I feel I have already explained it above. If you want more explanation, just ask.
    In all honesty, I don’t really see anything different here than I would without a God, though I would argue that without God it would be impossible for me to see at all.
    I also agree that suing your own church is kind of stupid. He should not have done that. I’m also inclined to believe that this church is Catholic. Catholics can be hypocrites a lot and I tend not to lump them in with Christians.

    As to your next few questions, I have no idea what’s going on in this man’s mind.

    But as to directly answer your last question, I will do my best to do so:

    Healing and miracles…can be a touchy subject in Christian churches. Some claim they don’t happen any more. But many still claim they do including me. Healing is not as uncommon as you would think. In fact, I have never seen a person to person prater for healing that didn’t have results. While I have never seen someone pray for an amputee’s limb to regrow, I do not consider it to be impossible. I’ve seen broken bones healed, as well as torn ACLs, sunburns, knees etc. I think that no one prays for amputees like that because it just seems to be so out of the ballpark that no one would dare to try and fail. But honestly, if one didn’t consider failing to be an option, then it would happen.

    I really do want to answer this question, so if you want any more explanation I am ready and willing to give it to you.

  13. on 29 Oct 2012 at 2:48 pm 13.Severin said …

    1 T.J.F.
    “Well one, if God were an insane monster, and He were omnipotent, we’d all be dead.”

    … as already shown in big flood!
    If I believed in god, I would be extremely afraid of the insanity he already showed by killing millions of human beings, including children, only because he was disappointed in his own work.
    Only an insane maniac would be able to do something wrong, then, instead to do some “reparations”, to make things better (which would be a peace of cake for an omnipotent god), to totally destroy his own deed: whole human race!
    I would call a lunatic someone who built a house and destroyed it; what to say for someone who killed millions only because those millions (whom HE created!) did not fit his sense of decency!

    Dangerous lunatic maniac.

  14. on 29 Oct 2012 at 3:07 pm 14.Severin said …

    #8
    “One, yes I do believe that God has a plan.”

    No doubt!
    He planned slavery, Inquisition, crusade wars, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, small pox, cancer, hunger, …

    Maybe you can tell us who answers the prayers of Muslims?
    Internet, newspapers and magazines are full of examples of how Allah answers their prayers.
    The answer to this question has much to do with question of “god’s plan”, trust me.
    So, does Allah answers the prayers of Muslims?
    If not, who does?

  15. on 29 Oct 2012 at 3:52 pm 15.TheJesusFreak said …

    If you’re looking for who were the insane monsters before the flood, then I would be looking at humans of the time. They weren’t very nice people. Also, since God created them/us, He does have the right to do whatever he wants. He created us in six days. We’re lucky He let us survive at all. We are here because God has given us a lot of mercy. God could have “repaired” the world as you so call it, but then we wouldn’t have free-will anymore. You’re viewing stuff on a humanistic level, which is totally understandable. but view stuff from the level of a God who can create and destroy the universe at will in a moment, and it looks way different from up there. :)

    As for planning, as you said:
    “No doubt!
    He planned slavery, Inquisition, crusade wars, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, small pox, cancer, hunger, …”

    Yes, I believe He planned that. He also planned for you and everyone else to exist at all. He planned for us to be saved. From a spiritual point of view, one can point out that it’s possible God is not the one who caused all this. Satan is. God gave him permission to do it.

    And as to who answers the prayers of Muslims? Not God as I know Him that’s for sure.

  16. on 29 Oct 2012 at 3:59 pm 16.Severin said …

    #9
    “I think that God was testing David’s faith …”

    You already told us that faith is not necessary to win the place in heaven.
    You can not deny you said that.

    Why would god test anyone’s faith, if faith was not necessary for people to be “saved”?

    A contradictory god?
    An idiot god?

    No god?

  17. on 29 Oct 2012 at 4:23 pm 17.Severin said …

    #15

    You just tell us: WHAT CHANGED after god killed all those people in the big flood?
    World became much better place to live?
    No more wars, killing, torturing, raping, robbing, … ? No more greed, jealousy, lust, …?
    Were the successors of Noah better people than people killed by god in big flood?

    I doubt it.
    Still better: I KNOW it.
    Terrible wars, terrible killing and torturing, including burning people alive, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, …, came all AFTER the big flood.
    So, what did god actually achieve by killing people and children?
    He killed millions, including absolutely innocent children, without doing anything better than it already was.

    Now you can make your choice:
    Totally incapable god who is doing something impulsively, without any idea about consequences?
    Maniac lunatic (…) god?

    No god?

  18. on 29 Oct 2012 at 4:51 pm 18.Anonymous said …

    Okay so what makes me doubtful on wether or not he truly is a Christian at all is because of his practices. Worshipping a crucifix is not at all Biblical. Just because he claims God healed his wife does not prove he is a religious follower of the true God. I could claim that Muhammad Ali healed my wife of ovarian cancer, and maybe my wife did survive ovarian cancer, but just because I claim it was Muhammad Ali does not mean that it was.

    OK. You see this is the big problem. In fairness you seem to understand that when you say “In all honesty, I don’t really see anything different here than I would without a God, though I would argue that without God it would be impossible for me to see at all.”

    I’m not sure I see a difference between worshiping at an alter or a church then his worshiping at the crucifix. Isn’t he directing his prayers to his god via that representation of his faith? This smacks a little of “no true Christian”. Here I should remind you that Matthew 6:5-6 has that Christians shouldn’t pray in public yet most delight in doing so – hence we could argue that most of you are “unbiblical”. Presumably this argument would apply to those that claim miracles occurred at Lourdes too?

    Now to the “crux” of the problem “..but just because I claim it was [&deity] does not mean that it was”. You’d claim that your prayers are answered by your god. Muslims are equally as vehement that their prayers are answered by their god. And so it goes on.

    Each group of believers presents the same arguments and the same level of proof. Yet, each group says they are right and everyone else is wrong based on their belief, or their reading of their holy book, or some other untestable hypothesis.

    Here’s how I see it, again, you should tell me if I am wrong. I’m not yearning for strawman here. Your reading of the bible is based on your personal interpretation. You called it common sense and you also said it called out to you. Thus you get to say the bible is 100% true because you decide when the bible is literal and when it is not and you get to adjust your reading so that it’s always “true” where “true” is some subjective variable quantity that differs between adherents of the same faith. It’s equivocation, perhaps not intentional, but it’s redefining things to suit a predetermined outcome.

    Claiming the mantle of more “biblical” is a circular argument because you haven’t yet proved the divine nature of the bible. For example, you could have 100% adherence to every word in the bible but if the true god is Ra then you’d still be wrong.

    The bottom line is that I simply can’t see where you’ve said anything that proves that your god is more real than any other. It’s the same argument that others use yet you dismiss them as incorrect. You can’t all be right but you can all be wrong. What do you have that specifically proves your god is real and disproves the existence of the other gods at the same time?

  19. on 29 Oct 2012 at 5:07 pm 19.Anonymous said …

    17.Severin, from #15 to your question, TJF defers to Satan so I think you also have the possibility of “A god whose plans are capable of being disrupted by a malevolent being that he, himself, created; possibly with the foreknowledge of these events”. That would argue against omnipotence (not that we actually asked either way).

  20. on 29 Oct 2012 at 5:24 pm 20.Severin said …

    Summary:
    God created man and women, which gave birth to human race (by incestuous sex, b.t.w.).
    God was unable to anticipate behavior of human beings and got so angry of what he saw after some time (people lived in sin), that he decided to exterminate them all, and he did it.
    God let Noah and his family alive to start new human population, but, alas, new population was even worse (much worse!) than the previous one.
    Most of people who knew god did not care much for him and his laws, they did what they pleased.
    Other people, the wast majority of population of the world, were totally neglected by god!
    He was very angry when he saw people before the big flood worshiping gods other than himself, and now, suddenly, BILLIONS of people worshiped zillions of different gods, only because god forgot to inform them he existed (Americas, Asia, Africa, Australia, Indonesia, Oceania, …, …), and god ceased to care about them.
    I could understand if he gave those people OPPORTUNITY to make their choices, but he did not!

    Was it a clumsy god? A totally incompetent god, who never knew the consequences of his own deeds?
    A lunatic who destroyed everything he did because he was “astonished” and “angry” with people HE created?

    Or, maybe there was no god at all?
    I personally prefer this “solution” rather than having nightmares with an incapable lunatic god, who, like a child playing on a beach, destroys everything he is not satisfied with.

    Even if you proved me existence of such a god (which you never will), I would prefer to ignore him, if I had no opportunity to fight such an idiot/monster.

  21. on 29 Oct 2012 at 8:16 pm 21.Ben said …

    The religious must explain this event? Why?

    Maybe he was worshipping a Cross

    Maybe this guy was careless

    Maybe some atheists rigged the Cross to fall

    Anyhow, I think the atheists must explain this since they don’t believe in God.

  22. on 29 Oct 2012 at 8:25 pm 22.The messenger said …

    15.TheJesusFreak I think that you are very well spoken, keep up the Good work.

  23. on 29 Oct 2012 at 9:48 pm 23.OkieChris said …

    I’m starting to think that the Flood was a regional thing and not a global thing. But irregardless, the bible shows that not all humans were killed by the flood if you actually read the account. Therefore, I surmise that the Flood was a culling process for the Israelite part of the world, God cutting out the bad from His Chosen. The rest of the world left Him for their own devices, and were therefore on the path to destruction, so why would He wipe them out? Pointless use of force. No, the Flood was for the Israelites alone, since they were disobedient. And why try to fathom an eternal mind by using a temporal one? That would be a prime example of insanity.

  24. on 29 Oct 2012 at 10:01 pm 24.gingin said …

    Well, this incident proves that God sometimes grants you what you pray for…..but not for free !

  25. on 29 Oct 2012 at 10:04 pm 25.Severin said …

    #15
    “And as to who answers the prayers of Muslims? Not God as I know Him that’s for sure.”

    As prayers of Muslims are doubtlessly answered (as Muslims certainly claim, and I have no reason to believe them less than I believe Christians), and you say that it can not be your god who answer their prayers, it must be that you believe that there is at least one additional god who answers the prayers of Muslims, besides the one who answers the prayers of Christians?
    Prayers of Muslims ARE answered, and it is not your god who answers them! There is NO other possibility but some other god.
    It must be that there is at least one additional god for each religion whose believers claim their prayers are answered, because no religion allows possibility that THEIR god answers prayers to followers of competition religion.
    And, in this crowd of gods, ALL of them answer prayers in same manner: “yes”, “wait” (and maybe you will get something else) and “no”
    A non believer who never pray, but strongly wishes something gets EXACTLY the same “answers” to his wishes: sometimes he get what he wishes, sometimes he get it later, or get something else, and something he never get what he wished.
    If consequences of all prayers to all gods (or to one god) appear as randomly distributed events independently of who is praying to which god, and look EXACTLY the same as accomplishments of wishes of a nonbelievers who never pray, all I can conclude is: maybe there are some gods, I would not know, but they do not influence anything.
    Things are happening randomly, independently of gods and prayers.

    Who needs such lazy and unreliable gods?
    Or, maybe there is no god(s) at all?

  26. on 29 Oct 2012 at 10:07 pm 26.gingin said …

    @ TheJesusFreak,

    Ofcourse God could’ve prevented it, but He likes to be mean, when He has a point.

  27. on 30 Oct 2012 at 12:11 am 27.alex said …

    OkieChris,

    are you troll in training or you god’s rep? and your biblical interpretation is better because you got a computer science degree?

    “Anyhow, I think the atheists must explain this since they don’t believe in God.”

    you a dumb motherfucker. if somebody has low blood pressure and an idiot said a vampire did it, do i have to explain it because i’m a non believer?

  28. on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:04 am 28.Lou(DFW) said …

    21.Has-Ben said …

    “Anyhow, I think the atheists must explain this since they don’t believe in God.”

    LOL! But you don’t have to provide any evidence for your imaginary god delusion when it’s YOU and other theists who DO believe in god, nor do you and your fellow sock-puppets ever answer direct questions about your BELIEF,- not things that you don’t believe.

    What you “think” about atheists is irrelevant, and it’s usually, if not always incorrect. What relevant is what your can demonstrate about your imaginary god.

  29. on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:10 am 29.Dez said …

    Ben

    I would like to hear an atheist explanation for the event. If there is no God, how could it happen?

    Since atheists rigged the cross, they might be quick to attempt to explain it away.

  30. on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:27 am 30.alex said …

    “I would like to hear an atheist explanation for the event. If there is no God, how could it happen?”

    if no rust, how? if no wind, how? you’re a complete idiot. just because you can’t explain shit, it doesn’t mean godditit, for the 100th time, moron.

  31. on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:53 am 31.Lou(DFW) said …

    27.Dizzy said …

    Other me,

    “I would like to hear an atheist explanation for the event. If there is no God, how could it happen?”

    Are you implying god is responsible for the failure of the crucifix?

    “Since atheists rigged the cross, they might be quick to attempt to explain it away.”

    Although falsely, you just answered your own question with your usual lies about atheists. Show us your evidence for the atheists rigging. Until you do, you are a liar.

  32. on 30 Oct 2012 at 2:59 am 32.Anonymous said …

    Dez and Ben are more instances of Lou, Asher, and A. Hor must be seriously worried by the way this conversation is going that he’s pulled out more sock-puppets so quickly.

    They don’t want to hear an atheist explanation at all. What they want is to stop the embarrassing questions being asked of theists and to let out their anger. Every time you folks engage the red-herrings you help the previous conversation to drift off the front page. That’s what they want, and its what they get when you let yourselves be pulled off course so easily. It’s happening again.

  33. on 30 Oct 2012 at 3:10 am 33.gingin said …

    @ The Messenger,

    Don’t you say that god is loving?
    Even humans do not bring harm to their
    loved ones. A god who torture the beings he loves just for a test, is a sadistic god.

  34. on 30 Oct 2012 at 3:19 am 34.gingin said …

    @ Ben
    The best explanation for it, is that life
    or God is ironic.

  35. on 30 Oct 2012 at 4:23 am 35.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Did anybody else laugh a little bit while reading this? Irony doesn’t even begin to explain it.

  36. on 30 Oct 2012 at 4:29 am 36.Slapnuts McGee said …

    21. Ben

    No you fucking idiot. YOU need to explain why you’te so fucking delusional. YOU need to provide evidence for your magical being in the sky. People who aren’t delusional don’t need to explain ANYTHING. Idiot.

  37. on 30 Oct 2012 at 7:15 am 37.gingin said …

    @ Slapnuts McGee,
    Crazy people laugh for no reason…..
    you laughed because you didn’t get it.
    Dummy !

  38. on 30 Oct 2012 at 4:54 pm 38.Anonymous said …

    The reason people don’t believe in God is because of their sin! They are blind to it, and they love sin. Following God would mean they would need to forsake sin, but the unsaved don’t want that. One of the stupid things I read on this foolish website along with the others, was that “why doesn’t God appear to people, to show them He is real” He shows us already by giving us the world we walk on! A creation must have a creator! I don’t remember ever seeing a clay pot appear by itself, it was made by a creator, the clay pot maker. And as for “why does God let bad things happen to people?” Because of our sinful nature, we all deserve Hell, and eternal damnation, but God has given His chosen ones the chance to repent from their wickedness, and follow Christ! God is truly a gracious God, that He would do such a wonderful thing! He is giving the unsaved common grace by letting them enjoy the good things about this earth, food, water, showers, family, pets, this is Him showing Grace until the day they die and end up in Hell, for not be thankful, realizing the gifts God had given them, and for not turning from sin. The foolish will continue to fight against this thought though, because the Bible says they are blind. I can’t make anyone saved, only God can choose whether or not someone will be blessed enough to see their own wretchedness. Truly God is a loving God, that he would give us all the chance to repent. And for that I am thankful!

  39. on 31 Oct 2012 at 12:22 am 39.The messenger said …

    33.gingin the bad things that happen in life are tests. Everyday is a test, we can all pass it.

    Here are some wise words that my father once told me….

    If God brings you to it, he can bring you through it.

  40. on 31 Oct 2012 at 3:21 am 40.Slapnuts McGee said …

    38.Anon…

    You sure are brainwashed, aren’t you? You’re the kind of dedicated fundamentalist religious fucktard that straps bombs to themselves and kills others for not “beleiving.” The only difference is you were lucky enough to be brainwashed somewhere other than a Muslim country. Wake up, buddy!

  41. on 31 Oct 2012 at 3:12 pm 41.DPK said …

    39.The messenger said …

    33.gingin the bad things that happen in life are tests. Everyday is a test, we can all pass it.

    Here are some wise words that my father once told me….

    If God brings you to it, he can bring you through it.

    Messenger… how come you never answer my questions? If everything bad is a test, what is god testing these little children for?

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TSeu1F-_U-I/T3TDAi_Nc0I/AAAAAAAACAs/_CLcqorBFYY/s1600/starving-children-africa.jpg

  42. on 31 Oct 2012 at 3:31 pm 42.Slapnuts McGee said …

    *Cue the “they’re suffering on Earth to make it to heaven as part of god’s plan” excuse.*

  43. on 31 Oct 2012 at 4:08 pm 43.Dr. Mike said …

    The many comments I have read on this blog have been interesting trips into the minds of their authors. Some comments are respectful of other opions and probably flow from reasonable intellectual doubt.

    Some responses are actively hostile to any thought of God. I suspect that many of these responses flow from prior life experiences where the writer feels that he or she has been mistreated, lied to, perhaps even abused by persons professing belief in God.

    Those responses which flow from honest intellectual doubt do not in any way deny or disprove that there are many unanswered questions about reality, and that faith in God is a reasonable response. To imply (as many have) that no rational human could believe in or be devoted to God is itself a form of intellectual terrorism.

    As an Example, Bert Thompson (Phd. in Microbiology from Texas A&M University, Professor of Veterinary Medicine)has written a thoughtful and compelling book entitled “The Scientific Case for Creation”. He identifies dozens of scientists from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and other major universities who believe in Biblical Creation because the theory of Evolution is not a satisfactory answer to existence of the universe or humanity. I would hardly call these scientists ignorant, or unlearned.

    The owner of this blog, and those who respond to it (including myself) certainly have the right to think and respond to ideas without limits, however, all of us should attack ideas, not people.

    I have an earned Doctorate, and three other graduate degrees. I also believe in a personal God, who is active in my life. I have seen miraculous physical healing, addictions removed instantaneously, marriages restored, and lives reborn through faith.

    I find nothing in sterile and Godless rationality that offers that kind of hope, meaning, and purpose to life. As a famous writer once penned, “The Athiest and the believer both will die. The difference in their ends is that one has hope for eternity the other does not.”

  44. on 31 Oct 2012 at 5:18 pm 44.DPK said …

    But the guy on the other thread who says he ACTUALLY went to heaven said god told him to tell us everyone goes to heaven… “your are cherished, there is nothing to fear, there is NOTHING you can do wrong..”
    So why do these starving children need to be tested… for what? And do they know it’s a test? I think more likely they just think life sucks because there isn’t enough food to eat. I doubt a starving 3 year old realizes there is some standard god is expecting him to rise to to test his moral fiber.
    I don’t even believe in god, yet I am well fed and healthy. Seems my test will be keeping OFF that extra 5 pounds after Thanksgiving…. hmmm…
    If messenger’s god IS real, he is one seriously fucked up dude.

  45. on 31 Oct 2012 at 5:44 pm 45.Ben said …

    Anonymous,

    Nice to have an Anonymous on here who makes sense for once. The other on here is a delusional nut masquerading as a whole hosts of personas.

  46. on 31 Oct 2012 at 9:31 pm 46.alex said …

    “..The difference in their ends is that one has hope for eternity the other does not.”

    yeah, so? there’s many differences in the end. hope for virgins? hope for a big dick? hope for nonfattening foods? what’s the common denominator? hope for bullshit.

    you got a doctorate? i don’t give a fuck if you’re the smartest motherfucker in the world. is that the proof for your god? no? then you believe in some bullshit, period. you got a personal god? good for you. i got a personal elf and?

    you theists fuckers come in here, knowing that this is an atheist site and you blather your bullshit, in your condescending style and you say the attacks are personal? then stop the preaching. show your evidence, not some bullshit book, or some bullshit experience nor some bullshit, meaningless comparisons between theists and atheists.

  47. on 01 Nov 2012 at 12:16 am 47.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Well put alex.

    I find it rather odd how “Dr. Mike” spews all of his big ol’ doctorate, educated, MIT, Harvard blah blah blah bullshit and then admits he is just as delusional as the many uneducated people in this world who also believe in an imaginary god.

    Dr. Mike is a DOCTOR, after all. He obviously spent many years studying facts and evidence and writing papers supported with those same facts and evidence. But (wait for it…) when it comes to god, BAM! Stop traffic! No facts or evidence needed! I BELIEVE! That’s all I need!!!

    Wake up, Dr. Mike. You’re delusional. Stop insulting yourself. Go study and analyze the information and ideas at http://www.godisimaginary.com as thoroughly as you studied for your profession.

  48. on 01 Nov 2012 at 12:55 am 48.The messenger said …

    41.DPK he is testing their will power to continue to try to get through the struggling times they are facing.

  49. on 01 Nov 2012 at 12:57 am 49.Anonymous said …

    Is Mike actually a medical doctor, or is he only playing at being one as in a Chiropractor, a Naturopath, or a Homeopath? Those folks are already predisposed to believing in nonsense and often refer to themselves as Dr Firstname.

  50. on 01 Nov 2012 at 1:14 am 50.Anonymous said …

    The dearth of a theist explanation to this man’s accident is quite telling. They are quite happy to concoct extraordinary complex explanations in order to give their god credit for good things but the bad things… well, what did we learn?

    We heard two excuses that can be applied to any situation, anywhere, at any time. They were also worthless as they were neither testable, nor falsifiable. In other words fluff: “god has a plan, but we don’t know what it is, or we don’t understand it”, and “it’s a test of (his) faith”.

    Other than that we saw several attempts to divert the conversation away from the topic at hand. It seems that our theist friends simply don’t have a good answer to the question posed in this post so simply want it to go away.

    The answer that fits without mental gyrations and excuses is simple: All gods are imaginary.

  51. on 01 Nov 2012 at 3:00 am 51.A said …

    Mike,
    You hit the nail on the head. All atheists have is profanity, insults and delusions. Not doubt these bitter feelings stem from bad relationships, job failures and insecurity. No doubt psychological issues are in play.
    Thanks for posting.

  52. on 01 Nov 2012 at 3:29 am 52.Anonymous said …

    As always, when their delusion is laid bare, out come the sock puppets. Well done! You’ve posted as Ben, Dez, and now A. And what have we learned from your posts? Oh yes, your faith is so weak, all you have is excuses and name calling. Keep it up. You’ve admitted to yourself that you don’t have an answer, next you’ll be admitting it in public.

  53. on 01 Nov 2012 at 3:53 pm 53.Lou(DFW) said …

    43.Dr. Mike said …

    “I have an earned Doctorate, and three other graduate degrees.”

    But no evidence for your imaginary god, only…

    “I also believe in a personal God, who is active in my life.”

  54. on 01 Nov 2012 at 3:56 pm 54.Lou(DFW) said …

    51.ASS said …

    “All atheists have is profanity, insults and delusions.”

    LOL! So therefore ASS’ imaginary god is real. Not to mention that all ASS has is lies about atheists.

  55. on 01 Nov 2012 at 4:04 pm 55.Lou(DFW) said …

    51.Poor ASS said …

    “All atheists have is profanity, insults and delusions.”

    ASS can never understand this simple concept – atheists don’t require ANYTHING to disbelieve in his imaginary god.

    What is required for people of intelligence to “believe” something is actual evidence for it. Unfortunately for people of low intelligence such as our friend ASS, they accept superstition and myth as a substitute for logic and knowledge. Then when they finally realize that their lives are a fraud, they come to places like this one to vent at and insult atheists.

  56. on 01 Nov 2012 at 7:27 pm 56.The messenger said …

    53.Lou(DFW) I have given you proof of God.

    Stop living in denial.

  57. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:19 pm 57.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Where is it messenger?

  58. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:39 pm 58.alex said …

    “Where is it messenger?”

    the vedas! predates the bible.

  59. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:43 pm 59.The messenger said …

    Slapnuts McGee the proof is located in several of my past comments.

  60. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:46 pm 60.The messenger said …

    Here is the proof.

    23 Minutes in Hell

    This article is an orphan, as no other articles link to it. Please introduce links to this page from related articles; suggestions may be available. (December 2010)
    23 Minutes in Hell is a 2006 Christian book written by Bill Wiese and published by Charisma House.[1] The book is claimed to be non-fiction and recounts the author’s alleged 23-minute-long experience in Hell in 1998.[1] The book and the underlying story within it are the topic of a series of speaking tours given by Wiese, predominantly to churches and other Christian organizations.[1]

    HideDescription

    Wiese states that he had been a Christian since 1970, but had never studied hell before his experience[2] on the night of November 23, 1998.[3] According to the book, Wiese, then a real estate broker,[2][4] found himself in a cell approximately 15 feet (4.6 m) high and 10 feet (3.0 m) by 15 feet (4.6 m) in area, where there were two foul-smelling beasts, personifications of evil and terror, who spoke in a blasphemous language.[3] Wiese says that the creatures had strength approximately one thousand times greater than a man’s strength.[3] According to Wiese, the beasts threw him against the stone wall, breaking his bones, and then ripped his flesh.[4]

    Wiese states that he nevertheless managed to crawl out of his cell, where he heard the screams of the billions of damned people in hell.[4] He states that he then encountered Jesus, who told him to tell other people that hell is real.[3] Wiese states that his experience ended with him waking on the floor of his living room, screaming in horror.[3]

    Close this section
    ShowResponse

    ShowSee also

    ShowReferences

    ShowExternal links

    ShowRead in another language

    Show

    Heaven Is for Real

    Heaven Is for Real cover book.
    Heaven is for Real: A Little Boy’s Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back is a 2010 New York Times best-selling Christian book written by Todd Burpo and Lynn Vincent. It was published by Thomas Nelson Publishers. The book documents a near death experience by Burpo’s then-four year old son, Colton, after which he began saying he had visited Heaven. By April 2012 over one million ebooks had been sold.[1]

    HideSummary

    Todd Burpo, a Christian pastor, says that during the months after emergency surgery, Colton began describing events and people that seemed impossible for him to have seen or met. Examples include his miscarried sister, who no one had told him about, and his great grandfather who died 30 years before Colton was born.[2] Colton also made other extra-biblical claims that he had personally sat in Jesus’ lap, while the angels sang songs to him,[3][4][5] as, for example, that he saw the Virgin Mary standing beside Jesus in Heaven.[6] Within three weeks of its November 2010 release, the book debuted at #3 on the New York Times bestseller list. By January 2011, there were 200,000 copies in print, and the book hit #1 on the New York Times list.[7]

    Close this section
    ShowReferences

    ShowExternal links

    ShowRead in another language

    Show

  61. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:47 pm 61.The messenger said …

    I have also seen heaven my self and it is amazing.

  62. on 01 Nov 2012 at 11:50 pm 62.The messenger said …

    Here is some more proof.

    Miracle of the Sun
    Location of Fátima, Portugal
    The Miracle of the Sun (Portuguese: O Milagre do Sol) was an event on 13 October 1917 in which 30,000 to 100,000 people, who were gathered near Fátima, Portugal, claimed to have witnessed extraordinary solar activity.
    According to these reports, the event lasted approximately ten minutes.[1] The three children also reported seeing a panorama of visions, including those of Jesus, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of Saint Joseph blessing the people.[2]
    The event was officially accepted as a miracle by the Roman Catholic Church on 13 October 1930. On 13 October 1951, the papal legate, Cardinal Tedeschini, told the million people gathered at Fátima that on 30 October, 31 October, 1 November, and 8 November 1950, Pope Pius XII himself witnessed the miracle of the sun from the Vatican gardens.[3]
    ShowThe event
    ShowDe Marchi accounts
    ShowCritical evaluation of the event
    ShowMedia
    ShowSee also
    ShowReferences
    ShowBibliography
    ShowExternal links
    ShowRead in another language
    Show
    more

  63. on 02 Nov 2012 at 2:33 am 63.alex said …

    please god. i pray that you kick that bitchass messenger out of this blog. please. please, i pray with 100% sincerity. i know if you don’t answer, it’s not in your will, but if you do, I will start going to church from now on.

  64. on 02 Nov 2012 at 3:32 am 64.DPK said …

    Messenger, you need to look up the definition of “proof” because you have no idea what it means.

  65. on 02 Nov 2012 at 5:18 am 65.Anonymous said …

    Reminder #26561 – Don’t feed the troll.

  66. on 02 Nov 2012 at 12:27 pm 66.MrQ said …

    The mess

    I have also seen heaven my self and it is amazing.

    Why did you have to come back?

    As an aside: Is your god all seeing, all knowing and all powerful; otherwise known as an omnimax god? Seems you were unable to accurately describe god’s position on slavery in another thread if god has all these attributes.

  67. on 02 Nov 2012 at 12:37 pm 67.The messenger said …

    63.alex why do you want me to leave?

  68. on 02 Nov 2012 at 12:39 pm 68.The messenger said …

    64.DPK I know the definition of proof.

    Apparently you do not.

  69. on 02 Nov 2012 at 12:41 pm 69.The messenger said …

    Alex, I will leave, only if you can give me a good reason to leave.

  70. on 02 Nov 2012 at 1:11 pm 70.Ben said …

    Messenger proof is what we have to support a cell forming out of the hot primordial soup by chance, no intelligence involved. That is the level of proof needed.

  71. on 02 Nov 2012 at 2:37 pm 71.Lou(DFW) said …

    69.The messenger said …

    “Alex, I will leave, only if you can give me a good reason to leave.”

    To get a mental health evaluation.

  72. on 02 Nov 2012 at 2:39 pm 72.Lou(DFW) said …

    70.Has-Ben said in an expression of poor grammar…

    “Messenger proof is what we have to support a cell forming out of the hot primordial soup by chance, no intelligence involved. That is the level of proof needed.”

    It MIGHT be if this blog was about that subject, but it isn’t. However, you are evidence that no intelligence is involved.

  73. on 02 Nov 2012 at 2:40 pm 73.Lou(DFW) said …

    68.The messenger said …

    “64.DPK I know the definition of proof.”

    Prove it.

  74. on 02 Nov 2012 at 3:35 pm 74.The messenger said …

    Proof is evidence of the existence pf some or something.

  75. on 02 Nov 2012 at 4:01 pm 75.The messenger said …

    on 02 Nov 2012 at 3:35 pm 74.The messenger said … Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    Proof is evidence of the existence of some or something.

  76. on 08 Nov 2012 at 6:10 am 76.SmartGirl said …

    As I read through all of this it seems like so many non-believers suffer from not knowing the scriptures. There are many quotes from the Old Testament in here, but none from the New Testament…We all fall short of the Glory God…and in the Old Testament God’s only remedy for this was death. Then enter Jesus…through Him we are set free. God knows we as human beings are imperfect and unable to attain perfection. There were no mistakes in the Bible!

  77. on 08 Nov 2012 at 6:11 am 77.SmartGirl said …

    Most of the ramblings on here, don’t even make sense to be quite honest! I hope that God touches our lives, and you all don’t have to live to hopelessly… It’s really quite sad.

  78. on 08 Nov 2012 at 6:12 am 78.SmartGirl said …

    **your lives***

  79. on 08 Nov 2012 at 1:06 pm 79.Lou(DFW) said …

    You got that right! Religion is nonsense.

  80. on 08 Nov 2012 at 1:07 pm 80.Lou(DFW) said …

    74.The messenger said …

    “Proof is evidence of the existence pf some or something.”

    Good! Now you understand why you’re nothing but a rambling fool.

  81. on 19 Nov 2012 at 4:25 am 81.Olivia said …

    The reason I’d because theman prayed and prayed for his wife, so
    God took something small from
    Him in return gotr saving his wides life.

  82. on 28 Dec 2012 at 2:45 pm 82.Dr. Mike said …

    On Octrober 31, 2012 I responded to this blog with some thoughts on a theistic view of creation and the existence of a personal God.

    I received the following 2 response from a Blogger identified as Alex, and another identified as Slapnuts McGee.

    From Alex:
    “yeah, so? there’s many differences in the end. hope for virgins? hope for a big dick? hope for nonfattening foods? what’s the common denominator? hope for bullshit.

    you got a doctorate? i don’t give a fuck if you’re the smartest motherfucker in the world. is that the proof for your god? no? then you believe in some bullshit, period. you got a personal god? good for you. i got a personal elf and?

    you theists fuckers come in here, knowing that this is an atheist site and you blather your bullshit, in your condescending style and you say the attacks are personal? then stop the preaching. show your evidence, not some bullshit book, or some bullshit experience nor some bullshit, meaningless comparisons between theists and atheists.”

    From Slapnuts McGee:

    Well put alex.
    I find it rather odd how “Dr. Mike” spews all of his big ol’ doctorate, educated, MIT, Harvard blah blah blah bullshit and then admits he is just as delusional as the many uneducated people in this world who also believe in an imaginary god.

    Dr. Mike is a DOCTOR, after all. He obviously spent many years studying facts and evidence and writing papers supported with those same facts and evidence. But (wait for it…) when it comes to god, BAM! Stop traffic! No facts or evidence needed! I BELIEVE! That’s all I need!!!

    Wake up, Dr. Mike. You’re delusional. Stop insulting yourself. Go study and analyze the information and ideas at http://www.godisimaginary.com as thoroughly as you studied for your profession.

    What I find interesting is that:
    1. Both responses Resorted to personal attacks and profanity rather than a reasoned argument.
    2. Both responses failed to provide any evidence that God does not exist other than their own opinions.

    So, I ask Alex and Slapnuts, Do you really want to search for truth or only vent your anger and hostility? If venting is what you seek then read no further.

    If you really care about truth, then consider one example from science. (and there are many other examples of proof for God)

    The most fundamental law of scientific inquiry is the “Law of Cause and Effect”. That is, every event and every object has a prior cause. Science seeks to ask the question What Cause “A” resulted in effect “B”. For example, a new BMW driving down the street did not appear out of nothing. It was designed and created by engineers and workers at BMW.

    What then can we say about the universe? We know from space telescopes that there are at least 60 sextillion stars, and more that we cannot see.

    If you accept the evolutionary hypothesis, what was the prior cause of these 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars,including our own??? If it evolved, what was the prior cause from which it evolved? And what was the prior cause of the prior cause which resulted in the stars??

    Even if you go back in time infinately, you must have a prior cause. The Big Bang theory says that all of the universe began with a “Ylem” or cosmic egg that exploded and formed the universe. But what was the prior cause of the Ylem??

    At some point scientific inquiry about the universe hits a “Cosmic Wall” and we have no answer except that something or someone created it.

    The Bible simply states “In the Beginning God Created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1) From a scientific viewpoint, that is as reasonable a first cause as any other.

    As a Christian I am just a pilgrim in life moving from birth to death seeking to answer the questions
    What is the purpose of my life?
    When I die, what is my end?

    I have found satisfying answers to those questions in the Bible. I offer this challenge to Alex, Slapnuts, and any other bloggers on this site. Find a Bible and read the Gospel of John. After reading that book, lets have an open discussion without name calling, or profanity. I am reading and will be happy to read any sources you identify for an Atheistic view.

  83. on 28 Dec 2012 at 4:56 pm 83.Lou(DFW) said …

    82.Dr. Mike said …

    What I find interesting is that:

    “1. Both responses Resorted to personal attacks and profanity rather than a reasoned argument.”

    Uh, yes they did contain a reasoned argument, the only one required – that you don’t have any evidence for your imaginary god.

    “2. Both responses failed to provide any evidence that God does not exist other than their own opinions.”

    First of all, if evidence shows that god exists, then lack of evidence shows that he doesn’t.

    Furthermore, it’s not necessary to provide evidence to show that everything imagined doesn’t actually exist. Consider that if that was necessary, then we would spend all of time proving the non-existence of imaginary things to people such as yourself.

    “I am reading and will be happy to read any sources you identify for an Atheistic view.”

    Are you really that dense? The only “Atheistic view” [sic] is the rejection of the belief in your imaginary god. It has nothing to with origins, purpose, or any other thing that you falsely attribute to it.

    You’re not particularly bright for a doctor.

  84. on 28 Dec 2012 at 5:31 pm 84.Xenon said …

    Mike,

    You cannot expect rationale responses from irrational minds. They are full of hate and frustration in their dead-end lives. It’s what we call misdirected anger.

  85. on 28 Dec 2012 at 5:36 pm 85.Lou(DFW) said …

    84.Xenonsense said …

    “You cannot expect rationale responses from irrational minds. They are full of hate and frustration in their dead-end lives. It’s what we call misdirected anger.”

    So what?

    And your reply is what we call theist bull-shit. You guys fluffing each other isn’t evidence for your imaginary god, but only evidence of your mutual delusion.

    Next…

  86. on 28 Dec 2012 at 7:32 pm 86.DPK said …

    Even if you go back in time infinately, you must have a prior cause. The Big Bang theory says that all of the universe began with a “Ylem” or cosmic egg that exploded and formed the universe. But what was the prior cause of the Ylem??

    At some point scientific inquiry about the universe hits a “Cosmic Wall” and we have no answer except that something or someone created it.

    First… if you “go back in time “infinitely” there will be no “prior” cause because you cannot have a “before” in infinity. So, your statement is has no meaning. Second, if “everything” must have a prior cause, than what caused your postulated god being? If nothing did, then why can you accept an uncaused being who would have to, by definition, be far more complex and powerful than the observable universe, but you cannot accept the idea of a universe, or if you will, a multi-verse, that just “is”?
    Third, explain how you get from the idea of “something” that created the universe to the idea of the personal god of the bible, complete with talking snakes, miracles, sin, eternal life, and reward/punishment for the crime of not believing in him? Talk about a leap!

    “As a Christian I am just a pilgrim in life moving from birth to death seeking to answer the questions
    What is the purpose of my life?”

    An argument from consequence. Why do you feel the universe owes your life a “purpose”? The universe, in it’s mind boggling size and age, is in fact completely indifferent to your existence. The fact that you wish it to be otherwise is irrelevant. What is the “purpose” of a universe with over 500 billion galaxies and untold trillions of stars if it was created for you?

    “When I die, what is my end?”
    Your end is death. Cessation of existence… just like before you were conceived. Where does a flame go when it is extinguished? It doesn’t “go” anywhere. It just stops. The far more complex set of reactions that is you is no different. What makes you think it would be? Just because you don’t like the idea? Grow up.

  87. on 28 Dec 2012 at 8:32 pm 87.Lou(DFW) said …

    43.Dr. Mike said …

    “I have an earned Doctorate, and three other graduate degrees.”

    “82.Dr. Mike said …

    Even if you go back in time infinately [sic], you must have a prior cause.”

    I also have a problem with a doctor who uses the very common misspelling of “infinitely.” He probably misspells “definitely” as “definately,” too.

    Some “doktor.” LOL!

  88. on 28 Dec 2012 at 9:22 pm 88.Anonymous said …

    Mike, you seem surprised at the reaction to your post despite the fact that your posts come over as arrogant, and dismissive. How strange.

    First, let’s deal with this issue of education. You’ve mentioned a doctorate and four graduate degrees. Is this something that you think is unusual or particularly difficult?

    Seeing as you mentioned it, please tell us what degrees you hold so that we can tell if that’s relevant to your argument (not that you’ve made one, though) or if it’s a false appeal to authority.

    Here quality very much matters. From the way you write, it seems likely that you are a “Dr” of something non-scientific. Chiropractic, Naturopath, Holistic Healer? Did you write papers, or recruit clients? If your education is from somewhere like Life, or Palmer, then your toy-degrees don’t count for anything other than an ability to set aside evidence in favor of belief. But, you mention it, so please expand up it.

    In your earlier post you showed how you cherry pick and misrepresent data to support your pre-established conclusion. For example, you reference Thompson and you also speak to the size of the universe and evolution.

    Thompson is a young-earth creationist, are you? I’m guessing not, yet you hawk his work like it’s authoritative. On that subject, well good for you, you’ve seen a small list of “scientists” that are religious. If that’s how you play, then there are more scientists with the name Steve that accept evolution than do not. But wait, this argument only works if it’s in your favor, right? Otherwise you’ll ignore it.

    At least with Thompson you mentioned someone who is gay so I hope you don’t hold sway with the anti-homosexual crowd. What is it with Christian in leadership-roles and sexual misconduct towards little boys? That was the reason he was fired from Apologetics Press, wasn’t it?

    We will get to your latest post but, before we do, why are you surprised at your reception when you didn’t bother to respond to the subject of the blog entry? Here’s what you said before you launched into your irrelevancies.

    Some responses are actively hostile to any thought of God. I suspect that many of these responses flow from prior life experiences where the writer feels that he or she has been mistreated, lied to, perhaps even abused by persons professing belief in God.

    Sigh. Really? You know this to be true? Of course you don’t. It’s an invented emotional position that allows you to dismiss the real argument of the lack of evidence for the existence of any god.

    Further, why do you insist that people have to disprove something that hasn’t been proven? You are demanding people disprove your god which is backwards. The onus is on YOU to prove that your god exists. Don’t like it? The world doesn’t care. It just affirms that you can’t prove your god so you substitute a fallacy in its place.

    If you really care about truth, then consider one example from science. (and there are many other examples of proof for God)

    The most fundamental law of scientific inquiry is the “Law of Cause and Effect”. That is, every event and every object has a prior cause. Science seeks to ask the question What Cause “A” resulted in effect “B”. For example, a new BMW driving down the street did not appear out of nothing. It was designed and created by engineers and workers at BMW.

    Ah, an appeal to “truth”, the pseudoscience answer to everything. Where can I find the “the most fundamental law of scientific inquiry of Cause and Effect”? Please point me to authoritative source? I’m familiar with how theists, pseudoscience lovers, new-agers and the like refer to this so-called law. But a scientific law? Please use one of you graduate degrees to educate me on this “scientific” law.

    Further it is absolutely *not* the case that every event is caused. You really need to study more and not rely on your everyday experience as an extrapolation to what you think is “science”. You also have a very strange definition of science; one I suspect as invented in order to host your strawman arguments.

    What then can we say about the universe? We know from space telescopes that there are at least 60 sextillion stars, and more that we cannot see.

    If you accept the evolutionary hypothesis, what was the prior cause of these 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars,including our own??? If it evolved, what was the prior cause from which it evolved? And what was the prior cause of the prior cause which resulted in the stars??

    Wrong again. Back in 2010 the number of stars in the observable universe was estimated to be 300 sextillion. That of the entire universe is much more. Your information is so outdated, perhaps that explains some of your other mistakes? When you say “evolutionary hypothesis” what actually do you mean? Clearly, science is not your thing.

    Also, why do you think a god would create such a large universe when the bible, which I am about to quote you on, holds the position that it’s all for us? What’s wrong with just a solar system?

    Even if you go back in time infinately, you must have a prior cause. The Big Bang theory says that all of the universe began with a “Ylem” or cosmic egg that exploded and formed the universe. But what was the prior cause of the Ylem??

    At some point scientific inquiry about the universe hits a “Cosmic Wall” and we have no answer except that something or someone created it.

    No. You do not *have* to have a prior cause and you certainly can’t postulate that the universe was created as an act of intent by a conscious entity without providing proof. You certainly can’t infer “everything must have a cause so the universe must have been created by an uncaused causal agent”. That would be the kind of thing a non-scientist would say.

    You understand that your argument reduces to: “this universe is so complex that it must have been created by an even more complex intelligent thing that is so complex that it doesn’t need to be created”. How does that even make sense?

    The Bible simply states “In the Beginning God Created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1) From a scientific viewpoint, that is as reasonable a first cause as any other.

    Now that is just plain dumb. Unless of course, you are willing to accept “the universe was shit out the back-end of an invisible pink unicorn a week ago last Sunday” as a scientific viewpoint? It is not at all reasonable, it’s everything but reasonable particularly if you propose it as a solution to prevent infinite regress. Remember, if you claim your god is uncaused then you have no reason not to accept that the universe is uncaused. Anything else is special pleading.

    As a Christian I am just a pilgrim in life moving from birth to death seeking to answer the questions
    What is the purpose of my life?
    When I die, what is my end?

    You don’t need a religion or a god to answer those questions.

    First, you assume your life has a purpose other than the one you give it. Sorry, Mike, you do need to drop the “I’m special” line and accept you just are. Does it make you feel “better” to think that you have a predefined “purpose”? Truly, that’s sad. You can find your own purpose, really you can. Just try.

    It’s been answered but, when you do, you die. That’s it as far as “you” are concerned. Again, what is this need to think you are so special that something happens to “you” after you die?

    Live life, Mike. Don’t waste it in pursuit of bronze-age myths.

  89. on 28 Dec 2012 at 9:31 pm 89.Lou(DFW) said …

    88.Anonymous said …

    ‘Ah, an appeal to “truth”, the pseudoscience answer to everything. Where can I find the “the most fundamental law of scientific inquiry of Cause and Effect”?’

    Yes, I noticed that one, too. I must have missed the day they taught that in “law[s] of scientific inquiry” class.

  90. on 28 Dec 2012 at 10:18 pm 90.A said …

    Mike this is fun. Lets turn Anony’s claim around.

    First, you assume your life has no purpose other than the one you give it. Sorry, Mouse, you do need to drop the “I’m smarter” line and accept you are not a soup creature. Does it make you feel “better” to think that you have a no predefined “purpose”? Truly, that’s sad. You can find your Creator’s purpose, really you can. Just try.”

    Thelma-Lou

    “Yes, I noticed that one, too. I must have missed the day they taught that in “law[s] of scientific inquiry” class.”

    ROTFL, Thelma-Lou you are as full of it as your double Anony. Science is not about discovering truth. You and your anony-lou double are both seriously deficient in your education. Neither of you have a clue as to what the scientific method entails (that was the phrase you were seeking after).

    Feel free to run down your educational background for me. I will evaluate and let you know if it is acceptable.

  91. on 28 Dec 2012 at 11:39 pm 91.Anonymous said …

    90.ASS said …

    “ROTFL, Thelma-Lou you are as full of it as your double Anony. Science is not about discovering truth.”

    ASS is back, and true to form, he signals his return with his trademark – pathological lying.

    Yes, it’s the return of the sock-puppets without evidence of their imaginary god.

    “I will evaluate and let you know if it is acceptable.”

    Sure, as soon as you provide evidence for your imaginary god, even though neither my nor anyone else’s educational background is relevant, especially “Doktor Mike.” I wonder if he’s an ASStrophysicist, too?

    OK, ASS, submit your god evidence and “I will evaluate [it] and let you know if it is acceptable.”

  92. on 28 Dec 2012 at 11:41 pm 92.Lou (DFW) said …

    91.Anonymous was Lou(DFW). I am not on my own PC, so my name was not automatically inserted.

  93. on 28 Dec 2012 at 11:44 pm 93.Lou (DFW) said …

    90.ASS said …

    “Neither of you have a clue as to what the scientific method entails (that was the phrase you were seeking after).”

    No,it wasn’t the phrase that I was “seeking after.”

    Seeking after? Really? It’s amazing how often you display your lack of “educational background.”

  94. on 29 Dec 2012 at 1:58 am 94.A said …

    Thelma-Lou is officially busted with his hand up the rear of anony-Lou.

    Get those credentials in to me anony-Lou. We all already knew.

  95. on 29 Dec 2012 at 3:03 am 95.DPK said …

    What?
    He stated in the very next post it was him… You call that being “busted”?
    God, you ARE an imbecile!

  96. on 29 Dec 2012 at 3:07 am 96.Anonymous said …

    Well, we always know when a good point has been made as Hor brings out the sock-puppets to try to hide the posts he is terrified that someone might reply to.

    Really, Ass, your childish attempts to parrot the words and actions that lead to your constantly being embarrassed are, well, embarrassing.

    It’s obvious that you and your “other-me” characters have nothing to contribute here. So why don’t you just go away?

    “Dr Mike” answer if you dare, but I suspect you won’t.

  97. on 29 Dec 2012 at 3:10 am 97.Lou (DFW) said …

    95.DPK said …

    “What?
    He stated in the very next post it was him… You call that being “busted”?
    God, you ARE an imbecile!”

    LOL! Isn’t that truth. That’s how he also claimed to have “busted” Prime!

    And of course everybody who posts as Anonymous is the same person, right?

    ASS, you replied so predictably stupidly.

  98. on 29 Dec 2012 at 3:15 am 98.Anonymous said …

    Don’t forget that our pet imbecile also thinks that everyone who posts at any other blog as Anonymous is also that self same person as he thinks is the sole poster known as “Anonymous” here.

  99. on 29 Dec 2012 at 3:22 am 99.Lou (DFW) said …

    94.ASS said …

    “Get those credentials in to me anony-Lou. We all already knew.”

    We? Who is “we?” Your sock-puppets?

  100. on 30 Dec 2012 at 2:56 am 100.Anti-Theist said …

    What’s the joke? Why would Lou(obscure acronym) post under the handle Anony? I’m guessing he forgot to enter his name and now the sedated public is using it as a diversion.

  101. on 30 Dec 2012 at 2:59 am 101.Anti-Theist said …

    If I may, what is “(DFW)?”

  102. on 30 Dec 2012 at 3:19 am 102.DPK said …

    I believe, if memory serves, DFW stands for Dallas Ft.Worth, to distinguish Lou from another Lou who frequented here a while back.
    And yes, in the post immediately after the one that went up , Lou(DWF) said flat out that he was posting from a different computer and forgot to enter his screen name, so it posted as anonymous. To which the idiot Ass man, proclaimed him to be “busted”!
    What an idiot.

  103. on 30 Dec 2012 at 4:07 pm 103.Where did we go right ? said …

    All of this deserves to be prayed about as opposed to the use of confrontational and somewhat abusive, perverse sounding debate.

    It is unfortunate that one would believe a lie created by man over the truth developed in the inner most self.

    However, this is absolute proof that we always did and still today need to be guided and rescued from our world and maybe more importantly from ourselves.

    That is the meaning of Jesus
    -Rescues
    -Saves

    Although it will always be for some that neither is ever admitted as being needed.
    THOSE ARE WHO WE PRAY FOR!
    LOVE

  104. on 30 Dec 2012 at 4:33 pm 104.alex said …

    allah will take care of you. you like that shit?

  105. on 30 Dec 2012 at 5:12 pm 105.Anonymous said …

    By all means pray. If it makes you feel better, then do it.

    Don’t, though, act surprised when people not suffering from your delusion point out that prayer is simply talking to yourself.

  106. on 31 Dec 2012 at 1:04 pm 106.Where did we go right ? said …

    Lord,

    Please forgive them .

    For they know not what they do.

    Bless us all with understanding beyond what is perceive to be true by human standard and soften our hearts so that we understand the peace and joy of your spirit filling us and your close companionship.

    Lord it is by your will that some should be called and others left to toil in vein in this life. Please show all of us how your blessings produce fruit that lasts not only for these, but for their children and their grandchildren.

    Amen

  107. on 31 Dec 2012 at 1:09 pm 107.Where did we go right ? said …

    I pray whatever pain you have obviously experienced would be taken away.

    The tone of these responses express a lot of hurt, anger and obvious disappointment.

    May all peace and Joy be with you!

    God is Love.

  108. on 31 Dec 2012 at 1:32 pm 108.alex said …

    try praying real loud with your jesus shit, in a mosque, righteous motherfucker. tone? you presumptous bitch.

  109. on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:27 pm 109.Lou(DFW) said …

    106.Where did he go wrong? said …

    “Lord,
    Please forgive them .”

    LOL! He must communicate with his imaginary omniscient god by posting comments on this blog.

  110. on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:28 pm 110.Lou(DFW) said …

    107.Where did he go wrong? said …

    “The tone of these responses express a lot of hurt, anger and obvious disappointment.”

    If true, then it’s because your imaginary god is a failure.

  111. on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:32 pm 111.Anonymous said …

    W, please pray for your god to heal an amputee, just one will do, and get back to us with that proof that your god answers prayers.

    But you won’t, you won’t even try, because you know as well as we do that your god is imaginary.

    Now, stop your trolling and answer this:

    If your god has a plan, and already knows everything that is going to happen, why would you pray? Are you now claiming that your god’s plan isn’t perfect and you know better than him? How presumptuous of you to judge your god as wanting.

    So, which is it W? Is your god perfect, in which case prayer to him to change direction would be insulting. Or is he imperfect, answers prayers, doesn’t have a plan, doesn’t know the future,, and therefore this isn’t the god that Christians worship?

  112. on 11 Jan 2013 at 12:47 am 112.believer said …

    Ya gotta be careful with what religeous groops you study on catholics are so confused they aint far from pagons i suggest asking someone from a full gospel church many ppl think GOD and JESUS are the same but JESUS is the son of GOD ya dont see to believe ya believe in order to see if you want proof think about how you have a soul and also read bout the end times in revelations and you will see how it predicted the wars and rumor of wars and other things like that thats going on today some was predicted in the new testament round 2000 years ago and thee old testament as much as 14000 years ago

  113. on 06 Jul 2013 at 7:58 am 113.Anonymous said …

    We can not justify why God had done what he had done but we do know thru he did it for some purpose

  114. on 06 Jul 2013 at 2:40 pm 114.The messenger said …

    112.believer, Jesus is GOD.

    The following passage from the bible proves that all Christians should see God as Jesus.

    John 20:27-29
    New International Version (NIV)
    27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    <<

    >>

    New International Version (NIV)
    Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

  115. on 22 Feb 2014 at 2:46 pm 115.Ravi said …

    God is good. God is good all the time. All the time God is good.

  116. on 22 Feb 2014 at 3:06 pm 116.alex said …

    “God is good all the time” cept wrestling. jacob 1 god 0.

Trackback This Post | Subscribe to the comments through RSS Feed

Leave a Reply