Feed on Posts or Comments 19 September 2014

Christianity Thomas on 31 Jul 2012 12:15 am

Where was God in Aurora?

A pastor from Colorado Springs named Rob Brendle has published the following article on CNN:

My Take: This is where God was in Aurora

This is the most interesting and unbelievable part:

The capacity to choose God and goodness came with the commensurate ability to choose evil. Is it loving to force his creation to follow his order, or to teach it and leave the creature to choose? It would seem that God came to the same conclusion that America’s founders did many millennia later: compulsory virtue is no virtue at all.

But Scripture also teaches that God is totally in control. He is all-powerful and all-knowing and he is willing and able to intervene in human events. So there is a gap between human choice and divine foreknowledge, a gap that transcends understanding and that helps define God in my mind.

The debate over this theological tension has persisted for centuries, and I don’t aim to settle it here. Let me suggest simply that God, in his sovereignty, has chosen to make our decisions meaningful. Consequently, much of what happens on earth neither conforms to nor results from his preference. There are at least four influences on human events: God’s will, to be sure; but also the will of Satan, our adversary; peoples’ choices, for better or for worse; and natural law (gravity, collision, combustion, and the like).

It is difficult to know which force causes the circumstances that devastate us. But it is enough to know that God need not be responsible for them.

So let’s see. God gave man free will. AND God also all-powerful and all-knowing. AND God is willing and able to intervene in human events. AND God has his own will. AND Satan has his own will.

In other words, it is a huge pile of contradiction and nonsense, and it ignores the truth – that God is imaginary, without a doubt.

What we find in the world of reality is that things happen without any influence from a “God” or a “Satan”. Things unfold exactly as we would expect in a Godless universe. People get shot in movie theaters and schools. Tsunamis kill hundreds of thousands of people. Cancer kills millions more. Children die of poverty at a rate of 30,000 per day. It rains or doesn’t rain despite the prayers of millions. Christians do not win the lottery more than non-Christians. Etc. Any intelligent person can see and understand this. God is imaginary.

Several of the replied to the article are quite rational. Like this one from Colin:

A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.

The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:

(a) Children’s fairytales;

(b) Medieval mythology;

(c) New age pseudo science; or

(d) Christianity

I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am

(a) a delusional schizophrenic;

(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly

(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or

(d) your average Christian

Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:

(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;

(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;

(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or

(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.

I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don’t do anything “naughty”. I am

(a) A victim of child molestation

(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover

(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions

(d) A Christian

You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:

(a) historian;

(b) geologist;

(c) NASA astronomer; or

(d) Christian

I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am

(a) A failed psychologist

(b) A fraudulent geneticist

(c) A sociologist who never went to college; or

(d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.

The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:

(a) Architecture;

(b) Philosophy;

(c) Archeology; or

(d) Religion

What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:

(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they must believe under threat of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;

(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is one god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;

(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or

(d) All of the above.

If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:

(a) a deep psychiatric issue;

(b) an irrational fear or phobia;

(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or

(d) my religious belief.

Or This one:

Top Ten Signs You’re a Christian
10 – You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 – You feel insulted and “dehumanized” when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 – You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 – Your face turns purple when you hear of the “atrocities” attributed to Allah, but you don’t even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in “Exodus” and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in “Joshua” including women, children, and trees!
6 – You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 – You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 – You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs – though excluding those in all rival sects – will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most “tolerant” and “loving.”
3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in “tongues” may be all the evidence you need to “prove” Christianity.
2 – You define 0.01% as a “high success rate” when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 – You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history – but still call yourself a Christian.

Or this one:

Dear Christians:

God here. I thought I would take the time to personally explain my absence in the Aurora shootings. While I was at it, I thought I would also explain my absence during every murder, massacre and crime that has ever taken place in World history, and in every war, in every famine, drought and flood.

You see, I do not exist. I never have. Did it really make sense to you that I would create an entire Universe with billions of billions of planets and wait about 13,700,000,000 years just so I could focus on a few Jews from Palestine about 2,000 years ago while ignoring the rest of the 200,000,000 people on the planet at the time? Did I make those few Jews or did those few Jews make me?

Further, do you really think I would sit back and do nothing while Nazis killed 6 million of my “chosen people,” but find it important enough to intervene and turn water into wine to stop some hosts being embarrassed at a wedding in Cana? Why did I seem to be so active in the Middle East for a brief period about 2,000 years ago, but totally absent everywhere else on the planet and for the rest of recorded history? Did I make the Jews or did the Jews make me?

So, you really think my periodic miracles prove my existence hey? Then why not something inarguable and unambiguous, like a huge crucifix in the sky, or my face on the moon? Why is it always that believers have to construct my miracles out of perfectly explicable natural events?

This happens every time there is a tragedy or near tragedy of any kind, anywhere in the world and in all cultures. Captain “Sully” Sullenberger pilots a distressed plane to land safely on the Hudson River in New York City with no deaths, and it’s a miracle from God; a young girl is found in India, totally terrorized, but alive after being abducted and ra.ped for a week, and it’s a miracle from my competi.tor Rama (or Vishnu or Shiva) that she is returned to her parents; or a family in Northern Pakistan survives an errant American missile attack, and it’s a miracle from Allah.

What all these self-serving proclamations of miraculous intervention always ignore is the downside of the incidents. The fact that the passengers and crew of Flight 1549 were terrorized and the plane destroyed, that 11 innocent people are dead in Aurora, that the girl was held for seven days, ra.ped and sod.omized and will be traumatized for the rest of her life, or that a number of innocent civilians were killed by the missile.

Of course, none of these incidents really are “miracles.” When the totality of facts are taken into account, “miracles” turn out to be nothing more than believers who are desperate for some sign of my existence ignoring the downside of a set of facts, focusing solely on the upside and calling the quarantined “good” a miracle from me or one of the other sky-fairies. A CEO might as well ignore the liability side of his balance sheet and declare it a “miracle” that his company just doubled in value.

Another annoying habit my “miracles” seem to have is that they always seem to tag along, just behind medical science, like an annoying kid brother who won’t go away. Until the mid nineties, those with AIDS who prayed for a miracle were never granted one. Medical science finds a way to permanently suppress the disease, and all of a sudden I start to perform miracles with AIDS patients. No polio patient ever received a miracle until the Salk vaccine and I routinely ignored cancer patients until chemotherapy and radiation treatments were developed. Suddenly, prayers to me from cancer patients are regularly “answered.”

Why is it that I still seem deaf to the pleadings of amputees who would like their fingers, arms or legs back, to those who have physically lost eyes or ears, to the horribly burned and to all others who ail from patently visible and currently incurable maladies? Why is it that, at the very same time, I am very receptive to the prayers of those whose condition is uncertain, internal and vulnerable to miraculous claims?

Take five minutes to make two lists; one of those ailments I will miraculously cure and the other of those I will not. You will quickly find it coincides perfectly with those conditions medical science (or the human body itself) can defeat and those we cannot. Why do you think that is? It is almost as my miracles are created out of medical ambiguity isn’t it?

No, my human friends. I am afraid I do not exist. I do not read your minds (or “hear your prayers” as you like to call it) and you are not going to achieve immortality (or “eternal life” as you like to call it) no matter how many commandments from Iron Age Palestine you choose to “keep”. Move on and enjoy the few years you have. You were all dead for the last 13,700,000,000 years and it wasn’t that least bit uncomfortable now, was it?

God

54 Responses to “Where was God in Aurora?”

  1. on 31 Jul 2012 at 1:52 pm 1.BrianE said …

    “The debate over this theological tension has persisted for centuries, and I don’t aim to settle it here”

    The debate IS settled, but delusional people like Rob Brendle simply have no interest in weighing any other facts, evidence or alternatives to the mental gymnastics they must go through to rationalize their god/religion with what they see in the world. Truly pathetic.

  2. on 31 Jul 2012 at 8:46 pm 2.Scourge said …

    Quod Erat Demonstandum.

  3. on 31 Jul 2012 at 9:47 pm 3.alex said …

    “Quod Erat Demonstandum”

    clever? not!

    the sun rises. is this demonstandum? morons love to use circular shit. god created shit, therefore shit proves god.

    ponder why your hemorroid, bald, impotent, stuttering, depressed, weak, alcoholic self requires a creator.

    please, don’t even try that shit to redirect back to me. i already tolya, i don’t know, but you gots all the answers. so start proving, otherwise you ain’t got dick.

  4. on 31 Jul 2012 at 10:32 pm 4.Lou(DFW) said …

    3.alex said …

    “Quod Erat Demonstandum”

    “clever? not!”

    I think that you misunderstood his meaning. I may be mistaken, so I will wait for him to explain.

  5. on 01 Aug 2012 at 2:30 am 5.Prime said …

    alex, I’m with Lou(DFW). You might have gone super-anti-troll.

  6. on 01 Aug 2012 at 2:55 am 6.Moss said …

    and you are not going to achieve….“eternal life” as you like to call it) no matter how many commandments…..you choose to “keep”.

    We don’t call it eternal life, Jesus did. We know we cannot achieve eternal life by keeping the commandments. That is exactly why Jesus came to save use.

  7. on 01 Aug 2012 at 3:21 am 7.Prime said …

    Also worth a look:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2012/07/thoughts-on-the-aurora-shooting-by-an-aurora-atheist/

  8. on 01 Aug 2012 at 11:11 am 8.Lou(DFW) said …

    6.Moss said …

    “We don’t call it eternal life, Jesus did. We know we cannot achieve eternal life by keeping the commandments. That is exactly why Jesus came to save use.”

    Who is “we,” and how do “we know” any such thing?

  9. on 01 Aug 2012 at 11:43 am 9.Moss said …

    From the Bible

  10. on 01 Aug 2012 at 11:51 am 10.A said …

    From alex:

    “Quod Erat Demonstandum”
    clever? not!

    Ah, alex, um, lets see how to break this to you. Simplicity is best. Scourge was on your side. Look up Quod Erat Demonstandum also known as QED. The later informs me Scourge never uses the term

    Louie, you might want to do the same since you claimed not to know.

    Wow! I have NEVER EVER seen such cluelesssness. Love you guys!

  11. on 01 Aug 2012 at 11:52 am 11.A said …

    Scourge

    You should look up QED as well. Not even close.

  12. on 01 Aug 2012 at 12:02 pm 12.Lou(DFW) said …

    9.Moss said …

    “From the Bible”

    Just as I thought – you don’t “know.”

  13. on 01 Aug 2012 at 12:03 pm 13.alex said …

    like i said before. i have warts, b.o., fat, and bad grammer. atheists know i mean no harm.

    does this change the fact about god? hell no. it’s like everything else, just diversions.

    “10.A said …”
    and what is your message? point me out? at least everyone knows my stance. you’re the one who believes in an imaginary god.

    i’ve been misunderstood before and i let it go. if i offended anybody, i apologize.

  14. on 01 Aug 2012 at 12:03 pm 14.Lou(DFW) said …

    10.ASStrophysicist said …

    “Louie, you might want to do the same since you claimed not to know.”

    I didn’t make any such claim. Why do you lie so much about what people write here?

    And why do you avoid answering direct questions about your lies?

  15. on 01 Aug 2012 at 1:19 pm 15.Lou(DFW) said …

    9.Moss said …

    “From the Bible”

    Don’t you understand that using the bible as evidence is absolutely no different than you simply saying “god told me?” But you wouldn’t say that would you, at least not in public?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-ZaZjJg-hk

    “Xtians are just like Buzz Lightyear.”

  16. on 01 Aug 2012 at 2:10 pm 16.Scourge said …

    Alex- Gawd.

    10-11 A aka ASStrophysicist. QED was deemed too short a response by WordPress so went long-form. You seem a bit high-handed for someone who oozes bible-college diploma mill. Wheaton College? Liberty?

    As for having used Q.E.D., a bit of a veteran on that front, and the vast majority of the time there was a high mark associated with it.

  17. on 01 Aug 2012 at 5:33 pm 17.A said …

    Scourge

    Then I suggest you hit the high mark then you can utilize QED. But since you have not I call foul.

    Louis, Louis, Louis…….

    The Bible is legitimate for use when you ask Moss about Jesus, the Commandments and what Jesus said. First you blow the QED test and now you cannot even make a connection from Jesus to Bible after asking the question.

    Louis save us all some time. Try getting your High school equivalency then drop back by.

    Sorry Moss for the stupidity of Louis.

  18. on 01 Aug 2012 at 6:51 pm 18.Lou(DFW) said …

    17.ASStrophysicist said …

    “Sorry Moss for the stupidity of Louis.”

    Writes the guy who can’t correctly punctuate a simple sentence.

    I’ll admit one thing about you – you’re great at saving time. You NEVER, EVER provide evidence for your imaginary god nor answer a question about one your numerous idiotic comments. Why is that, ASS? You have time to post new lies about what is posted here, but you NEVER, EVER answer questions about your comments.

  19. on 01 Aug 2012 at 8:49 pm 19.Moss said …

    “Don’t you understand that using the bible as evidence is absolutely no different than you simply saying “god told me?””

    OK. Then What book/text would you accept for the teachings of Jesus and the commandments?

    Thanks A

  20. on 01 Aug 2012 at 8:51 pm 20.Ben said …

    I think that you misunderstood his meaning. I may be mistaken, so I will wait for him to explain.

    Lou, How does one misunderstand the meaning of Q.E.D.?

  21. on 01 Aug 2012 at 9:24 pm 21.Lou(DFW) said …

    19.Moss said …

    “Then What book/text would you accept for the teachings of Jesus and the commandments?”

    Irrelevant. The point is that a book is not evidence of god.

    “Thanks A”

    A?

  22. on 01 Aug 2012 at 9:26 pm 22.Lou(DFW) said …

    20.Has Ben said …

    “Lou, How does one misunderstand the meaning of Q.E.D.?”

    Irrelevant. Regardless, I didn’t write that he misunderstood the meaning of Q.E.D.

  23. on 01 Aug 2012 at 9:47 pm 23.Prime said …

    Scourge, are you a mathematician as well?
    If so, that’s pretty sweet. Math is something of a haven for smart theists who seem to be repelled by the iconoclastic facts often learned in the sciences.

  24. on 01 Aug 2012 at 11:10 pm 24.Lou(DFW) said …

    17.ASStrophysicist said …

    “The Bible is legitimate for use when you ask Moss about Jesus, the Commandments and what Jesus said.”

    The other day I was speaking to someone who claimed to “know” that Divine punishment was inflicted through the goddess Hathor, with the survivors suffering through separation from Ra who now resides in the sky on the back of Nut, the heavenly cow.

    I asked him how he could possibly “know” that. He replied “The Book of the Heavenly Cow” is legitimate for use when you ask about the supreme sun god Ra.

    So, I suppose you are correct. If it’s written in stone or in some other holy book thousands of years ago, then it must be true.

  25. on 02 Aug 2012 at 1:49 am 25.Anonymous said …

    21.Lou (DFW) “Thanks A” A?

    The perils of sock-puppetry. Some days you don’t remember if you’re posting as “Ben” or “Martin” and you reply to yourself. Or, in this case, poor Hor got confused as to if he was an Ass or just some other simple life form.

  26. on 02 Aug 2012 at 2:29 am 26.Lou(DFW) said …

    25.Anonymous said …

    “The perils of sock-puppetry.”

    He’s thanking A for his comments in #17. My comment was more of a “WTF” are you thanking him for? He’s an embarrassment to himself. Why would anyone with a modicum of intelligence and pride want to associate himself with him?

    But it is probably a case of sock-puppetry.

  27. on 02 Aug 2012 at 6:19 pm 27.Nate Byrne said …

    As one of the newest member of the believing Christian community, I found Colin’s article to be quite misguided and unfortunate. I am neither a bible thumper nor completely void of beliefs. Here is how my God would respond.
    God here! During the time of the attacks in Aurora, I was high above watching with a broken heart. The rumbles of thunder and down pouring of rain across the world symbolized my not only the sadness I feel for such insanity but also the fierce anger I have that people do not see the true value in humanity.
    You see. I do exist. I always have. Since the beginning of humanity, you have always doubted me. You have always searched for ways to be unique, to strive and grow. You have always asserted your individuality and have always wanted a hands off approach from me. You crave the freedom to do as you wish. You seek out your beliefs in a way that personally suits you. You are unique.
    And guess what? I made you that way. As time passed millions of years ago, I always knew that one day I would create you. Mold you. Show you who I am by making you like me. From the dawn of time, I knew that the only way I could create pure “freedom” for you was to take a hands off approach. You see, I love you enough to let you fail. Just as you fall numerous times going from crawling to walking, you also fall throughout life. It is because I made you that way. I gave you freedom. I love you.
    Throughout the ages of humanity, suffering has always existed. There has been the persecution of the Jews, the young girl in India and a million more examples that your puny minds cannot even fathom. I remember them all. I feel the pain of every instance of suffering, brutality and hardship. I made it that I see the whole picture while you see glimmers of the grand plan.
    Colin, and the rest of humanity, take a moment and think about the scope and magnitude of creating the human race. Although simple for me, the balance has to be just right. I do not rule you. I do not govern you. I do not dictate to you. I created you with the ability to be self-sustaining. I gave you everything you need. I see you reach planets now that were once untouchable. I see you creating new medicines to live longer. I see the joy those who experienced a child because of technology. I see the child overcome trauma to create and slow the spread of AIDS.I see it all Colin, in a way your mind cannot yet fathom.
    The inherit knowledge that I have given you has made medicine fuel progress, so do other facets of life that you seem to overlook. I gave you the gift of innovation to not only be able to talk to anyone in the world but you can now see them. I gave you the information to filter water, grow animals quicker to help with supply and demand and gave you everything you need to make homes for everyone that seeks one.
    I also gave you a heart. A heart made to feel pain, sadness and agony. A heart to feel love that can crumble nations, bring people together and bond families for life. I gave you a soul to guide you throughout life as a moral compass. It’s a soul that one day to be forever present next to Mine.
    Colin and all, if you search your soul you will realize that although you are lost. I am real. I gave you freedom as a gift. I gave you and the Aurora shooter free choice. While he chose to take the path of evil and commit the ultimate sin, you are choosing to take the path of a doubter. I gave My son to this world to show you My love. I gave you my son and created you so that you and the Aurora shooter can choose whatever path in life to take. You cannot ask for and live a life of free will while asking me to take that away from others. I am a fair God. And I am a just God. Their judgment will come.
    Yes, I do exist my children. For as long as you have walked this world, you have proven that some of you will be righteous; some of you will be vile. Some of you like Colin will doubt. But in order for me to carry the weight of evil, I must allow all of you the chance to live life as you want, not as I command. I am always here.

    God

  28. on 02 Aug 2012 at 6:50 pm 28.Scourge said …

    23 Prim I know quite a few mathematicians. Aside from keeping some holiday traditions alive, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Jain, Christian and Norse, no one believes in supernatural entities. They all basically follow Russell’s disbelief which is very much akin to Dawkins: You cannot be 100% sure there are no gods, but there is absolutely no reason to believe in them.

  29. on 02 Aug 2012 at 6:57 pm 29.Lou(DFW) said …

    27.Nate Byrne said …

    “Here is how my God would respond.”

    Let’s skip all the obvious b.s. and absurdity of your rationalization for now and address this one issue – why did god create earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, lightning, animal attacks, and all the other natural disasters that cause suffering, pain, injury, and death to innocent people, especially children?

    How do you reconcile those things with free-will and freedom?

    And if free-will and freedom excludes god’s protection, then god doesn’t answer prayers, correct?

  30. on 02 Aug 2012 at 8:29 pm 30.Anonymous said …

    27 is just a long winded appeal to ignorance.

  31. on 02 Aug 2012 at 8:48 pm 31.A said …

    “27 is just a long winded appeal to ignorance.”

    No Anonymous he was not appealing to you (sigh). He was appealing to the rational. :)

    Has alex spoken to you about being a man and adopting a real moniker?

  32. on 02 Aug 2012 at 8:52 pm 32.A said …

    Scourge

    Prime is not a mathematician. He teaches Jr High math. Your choice to be duped but his bodacious braggadocio is no more than tomfollery.

  33. on 02 Aug 2012 at 9:16 pm 33.alex said …

    31.A said …

    just eat pork, baby, uhmmm. keep working on the sabbath. coz you know, deep in your heart, god is not. you keep defending allah because you’re afraid to die.

    you don’t have to be a theist to know that it’s wrong to lust after your neighbor’s dog, but you just need that doOver when you make your move.

  34. on 02 Aug 2012 at 10:22 pm 34.Slapnuts McGee said …

    I’ve always wondered why people pray if god has already made up his mind. After all, god has a plan for everybody, even if that plan involves being raped, getting cancer, or getting shot in a movie theater.

  35. on 02 Aug 2012 at 10:25 pm 35.Prime said …

    Scourge, I think you’d understand what I was meaning more clearly if I were to point out that not only am I a mathematician, but also that I live in the Southeastern United States. Perhaps?

  36. on 03 Aug 2012 at 2:16 am 36.Curmudgeon said …

    Prime,

    You have a problem with blacks? Maybe Rednecks? Or maybe just the poor? I’m sure you are more sophisticated than that filth.

    The fact you must repeatedly tell everyone what you do shows your insecurity.

    I despise bigots but I have found they always get what they deserve.

  37. on 03 Aug 2012 at 2:27 am 37.Lou(DFW) said …

    36.Curmudgeon said …

    “You have a problem with blacks? Maybe Rednecks? Or maybe just the poor?”

    So what if he does?

    “The fact you must repeatedly tell everyone what you do shows your insecurity.”

    As opposed to all the wind-bag theists here can’t provide any evidence for their imaginary god, and who, like you, engage them in pointless, off-topic tangents to avoid facing the fact that their god is imaginary? I can’t imagine anybody being so insecure and threatened in their faith that they must resort to juvenile rants and bickering with strangers to bolster their lack of real belief and security in their so-called god.

    “I despise bigots but I have found they always get what they deserve.”

    That being what? As if you know any such thing anymore than you know that god and heaven exist.

  38. on 03 Aug 2012 at 1:44 pm 38.Scourge said …

    35 Prime- What is your point? In a previous post you correctly denoted “iconoclastic facts often learned in the sciences”. Science is about facts, and as such, they are implicitly iconoclastic. Again, I do not know of a mathematician who is religious beyond keeping holiday traditions alive. How are you contending that mathematics is a refuge for theists?

    You have my well earned pity for living in the American South.

  39. on 03 Aug 2012 at 3:39 pm 39.Lou(DFW) said …

    38.Scourge said …

    “How are you contending that mathematics is a refuge for theists?”

    He did write “smart theists.” In mathematics they can exercise their intellect without violating their religious delusions.

    That’s way I read it.

  40. on 03 Aug 2012 at 6:52 pm 40.Lou(DFW) said …

    30.Anonymous said …

    “27 is just a long winded appeal to ignorance.”

    It’s actually something else, something you frequently see on this blog when some “new” moniker appears, usually flooding the blog with post after post of raving and ranting about god and religion. It’s an exercise in which they vent their frustration at atheists through rationalization of their delusion because what they wish and believe won’t reconcile with what they experience.

  41. on 03 Aug 2012 at 7:27 pm 41.Prime said …

    Yes. Lou(DFW) in #39 read what I meant. In the hallowed halls of mathematics departments throughout the South, people talk about ring theory, optimal controls, Brownian motion, cheap discounted meat and meat products, and their love of Jesus.

  42. on 03 Aug 2012 at 7:28 pm 42.Prime said …

    Then again… we also have martial arts schools as a “ministry to Christ” down here too, and yoga studios where all of the sequences of poses are related back to bible verses. I really, really wish I was making this up.

  43. on 03 Aug 2012 at 11:31 pm 43.Lou(DFW) said …

    42.Prime said …

    “I really, really wish I was making this up.”

    Hallelujah! Christians Pole Dance for Jesus in Texas

    Student Says Pole Dancing Class Brings Her Closer to God

    http://tinyurl.com/63wdf52

  44. on 03 Aug 2012 at 11:52 pm 44.Prime said …

    43.Lou(DFW) said …

    “Hallelujah! Christians Pole Dance for Jesus in Texas”

    It’s for reasons like this that the entire South tries to disavow every other state in the South from its membership.

  45. on 04 Aug 2012 at 12:46 am 45.Martin said …

    Elitist such as Prime should be pitied. They do not have the capacity to appreciate humanity who does not fit their elitist view of what a human being should be. They see themselves in superlatives, elite and incomparable when in reality they show their true insecurity with their tumescent sense of worth. True strength and true exceptionalism lies in accomplishment tempered with humility and guys like Prime are incapable of such feats. Consequently they remain angry, unfulfilled and miserable. If his view of Southerners had been any less than what he has articulated, I would have been very surprised. He fits the profile perfectly.

    Having the great privilege of living all over the US, the South is truly stunning. Why is it great?

    32oz drinks without breaking a law.
    No Chicago and No Detroit.
    The Constitution
    Few Elitist Twits

  46. on 04 Aug 2012 at 2:30 am 46.Prime said …

    Martin, you could have almost made what looked like a point against me (invalid as it actually is) had you not botched it utterly with
    “Having the great privilege of living all over the US, the South is truly stunning. Why is it great?
    32oz drinks without breaking a law.
    No Chicago and No Detroit.
    The Constitution
    Few Elitist Twits”

    Pots ought not call kettles black, should they?

    For your information, Southerners are just as often elitist as anyone else, they just decide themselves to be “elite” based upon really stupid reasons, like commitment to living firmly attached to a belief in an imaginary God. That they tend to temper it with fake “bless your heart” humility might appeal to folks like you, but I’m disinterested in dishonesty of all kinds, perhaps most the ingratiating kind that often gets called “Southern charm.”

  47. on 04 Aug 2012 at 11:28 am 47.A said …

    Martin,

    We do pity him. Maybe he can get back to one of the DNC strongholds like a Chicago and teach at one of their Jr High schools.

    I am originally from Vermont and grand as it is, it cannot compete with the South. Love it here.

  48. on 07 Dec 2012 at 2:37 pm 48.Billy Butcher said …

    One may think they have one of these cagey little wood land creatures cornered, and WHAM!!!, they hit you in the family jewels with nonsense like “Free Will.” How can we argue against complete inanity? It’s an easily proved illusion, yet they accept it without pause. The Bloody Free Will Freak will win every time, and it’s partly our fault. Gee whiz, don’t ya feel a tad guilty? Yeah, me neither.

  49. on 07 Dec 2012 at 3:42 pm 49.Billy Butcher said …

    I don’t know why the young lady above is so shook up about so many nonbelievers. It’s over 1 billion world wide for atheist, agnostics, and no religion. I’m not the least upset that so many delusional cherry-picking Christians will soon have a big surprise. Nothingness. Now would you rather spend eternity with a genocidal, misogynistic, jealous, vengeful, despotic, madman ( btw, give the concept of eternity some thought) who’ll still be on patrol for thought crimes even if you’re asleep in heaven, or wouldn’t you rather gain your senses and read the best apologist of all time, Dr. Hector Avalos, with 3 Ph.Ds from Iowa State, and currently a Harvard proffessor, and see him put the most horrid apologists (they all are) (the former best apologists are all atheists now) through the paper shredder, into the garbage can, light it on fire and be done with all this theocratic hooey? Something that never ends scares the bleep out of me. That poor influencial 13 year old got to thinking, “I want to live forever, Mommy!!!!!!” So now she went to the only place that promotes her wishful thinking when she should be thinking of life at that age. What’s so bad about death? Personally, I could use a well deserved eternal sleep, and my ego isn’t going to suffer. After all, it’s only man’s ego, and unreasonable fear of death that a childish concept of living forEVER was born from. Enjoy eternity with whoever is there. LOL. No one knows who will go where. I’ve at least read the ancient manmade crap cover to cover, word by word, column by column, page by page, and a few times a week for 3 decades on top of that horror story, so at least I know what I’m slamming. Your Christian God can’t
    even properly interpret the word alma, and twice he mentions Pi as, WOW, hold on, 3.1. And this was 4 to 5 centurys after the Egyptians took it well past the decimal. So along with those other negative adjectives, add DUMBASS. Btw, when’s the last time you heard an atheist ask you for money, or threaten to kill thousands? There ya go mate. Keep as cool as ya can. Don’t fret over what manmade, ancient, ignorant, superstitious, Middle Eastern yokels started. Does it really matter what will be going on 8,000,000 billion, times 768,000,983,872,123,945 thousand trillion years from now? And that won’t even budge the second hand on the clock of eternity. Anyone for smoking a killer joint?

  50. on 07 Dec 2012 at 4:17 pm 50.Lou(DFW) said …

    49.Billy Butcher said …

    “I don’t know why the young lady above is so shook up about so many nonbelievers. It’s over 1 billion world wide for atheist, agnostics, and no religion.”

    Also, there are or were at least 1,000 other gods, and she and her ilk disbelief in all of then except one. That makes her an atheist about 99.9% of all gods. It’s just as honest and easy to discard the last one and reject them all as do atheists.

  51. on 07 Dec 2012 at 5:28 pm 51.Anonymous said …

    1,000? Take a peek at godchecker.com

    Also check out the top ten which is mostly ruled by the Norse and Greek gods. And with no wonder, those gods really kicked butt.

    Come on, if you were going to pick your god based on ability, charisma, and just plain awesomeness, instead of the boring Christian “who loves you baby” then old-school rules big-time.

  52. on 07 Dec 2012 at 5:32 pm 52.Lou(DFW) said …

    51.Anonymous said …

    “Come on, if you were going to pick your god based on ability, charisma, and just plain awesomeness, instead of…”

    They don’t. They choose their god because it “employs fear and guilt as its tools for getting and keeping followers.’

  53. on 07 Dec 2012 at 5:42 pm 53.DPK said …

    Actually, most of those here chose their god simply because they were born and raised in back woods Mississippi. Had they been born in Saudi Arabia, they would probably be flying airplanes into buildings instead. Such is the product of social pressure coupled with feeble minds, and an unwillingness to let go of the prospect of eternal life in a magical wonderland.

  54. on 16 Jul 2013 at 10:29 am 54.Guy said …

    Text from the book “conversations with god”-
    Neale-why do some people, take Christ for example,seem to hear more of your communication than others?
    God- because some people are willing to actually listen. They’re willing to here, they are willing to remain open to communication even when it seems scary, or crazy, or downright wrong.

    Another bit:
    Neale- why is it that you do not reveal yourself? If there really is a god, and you are it, why do you not reveal yourself in a way we can all understand?
    God- I have done so, over and over. I am doing so again right now.
    Neale- no, I mean by a method of revelation that is incontrovertible; that cannot be denied.
    God- such as?
    Neale- such as appearing right before my eyes.
    God- I am doing so right now.
    N- where?
    G- everywhere you look.
    N- no, I mean in an incontrovertible way. In a way that no man could deny.
    G- what way would that be? In what form or shape would you have me appear?
    N-in the form or shape you actually have
    G- that would be impossible, for I have no form or shape you understand. I could adopt a form or shape that you could understand,but everyone would assume that what they have seen is the one and only fOrmal and shape of god, rather than a form or shape of god- one of many.
    People believe I am what they see me as, rather than what they do not see. But I am the great unseen, not what I cause myself to be in a particular moment in a sense, I am what I’m not. It is from the am-notness that I come, and to it I always return.

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