Feed on Posts or Comments 22 December 2014

Christianity Thomas on 30 Jun 2012 03:17 pm

The Hypocrisy of Christian Teaching at Vacation Bible School

In the Southern United States, Vacation Bible School (VBS) is a long tradition. Churches advertise what are generally week-long programs in the summer. Parents sign their kids up and bring them for a week of Bible school lessons at the church. It is something like a Christian day camp lasting two to four hours per day depending on the church.

VBS programs have become quite slick in recent years, with national groups putting together packages for churches to buy. The packages include themed curriculum, scripts, backdrops and decorations, posters, custom music CDs, song books, etc. Here is one such VBS package being sold this year:

Sky VBS 2012 – Everything is possible with God!

If you look at that page, you can see that the children who attend and are indoctrinated at Vacation Bible School start receiving hypocrisy and false promises from the very start. Look at the page’s first paragraph of text:

Every kid wishes they could fly…
So imagine transforming your church into the boundless blue sky! At Sky VBS, kids discover that by trusting God, everything is possible.

By trusting God, everything is possible… except the kids will NEVER be able to fly like superman, with a cape as pictured. How much more hypocritical can things get?

If anything is possible with God, why can’t kids fly like superman?

Here is one of the songs that the kids learn at Sky VBS:

“It doesn’t matter who you are, you can trust God.”

Right after singing this song, the children are introduced to Operation Kid-to-Kid, where they are asked to bring money for mosquito nets:

Yes, you can trust God – unless you are a kid dying of Malaria in Mali. In that case, this “trustworthy” God is letting 2,000 kids die per day.

How can such rank hypocrisy and superstition legally be taught to children?

99 Responses to “The Hypocrisy of Christian Teaching at Vacation Bible School”

  1. on 30 Jun 2012 at 4:31 pm 1.A said …

    “By trusting God, everything is possible… except the kids will NEVER be able to fly. How much more hypocritical can things get?”

    I have flown over a 1000 times. From Willis Wing hang gliders, the wingsuit to the 747-8.

    We all die. God never promised anyone they would live forever. These kids according to this material are attempting to help children around the world. S0 what are atheists doing other than telling kids you will fail at all you do?

  2. on 30 Jun 2012 at 7:10 pm 2.Anonymous said …

    What are atheists doing?

    The man who won the Nobel prize for discovering the cause of malaria was an atheist:

    http://philosopedia.org/index.php/Charles_Louis_Alphonse_Laveran

    Most scientists are atheists.

  3. on 30 Jun 2012 at 7:33 pm 3.alex said …

    “S0 what are atheists doing other than telling kids you will fail at all you do?”

    Lies, just like heaven and biblical redemption.

    How about common sense? and:

    1. God doesn’t exist. He won’t do shit for you, so wear your seat belts. Go see a doctor if you need one.

    2. Life is short, so be tolerant. There’s no afterlife.

    3. Every other stupid thing the bible tells you to do, don’t.

    “We all die. God never promised anyone they would live forever.”

    The bible also said prayers are answered. Well?

  4. on 30 Jun 2012 at 7:59 pm 4.BB said …

    “Most scientists are atheists”

    Just another atheist lie. Is this how atheists must prop up their useless worldview?

    Yes. it is.

    A,

    Atheists are telling lies and telling everyone else how they should live and what you should believe. This guy right above me is living proof.

  5. on 30 Jun 2012 at 8:02 pm 5.Prime said …

    93% of the National Academy of Sciences does not believe in a personal God.

    Google Project Steve.

  6. on 30 Jun 2012 at 8:09 pm 6.alex said …

    “Atheists are telling lies and telling everyone else how they should live and what you should believe. This guy right above me is living proof.”

    fine, some atheists lie, some tell the truth, so this is your god proof?

    some parents lie, some parents tell the truth.
    santa must exist. moron.

  7. on 30 Jun 2012 at 8:15 pm 7.Dez said …

    “In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views.”

    “I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.

    Einstein

  8. on 30 Jun 2012 at 8:25 pm 8.alex said …

    “The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books”

    bullshit. it’s the old mystical, egotistical crap again. i’m so great, i require a creator.

    i’m not looking up your einstein quip and i could care less. einstein is not the final say. you can quote samuel jackson if you want, but it ain’t gonna change nothing. your god, elves, tupac, santa don’t exist.

    please, given enough time, all the letters/numbers/symbols/words in the bible can be rearranged to come up with the final bullshit product.

    you and i are insignificant. get over it.

  9. on 30 Jun 2012 at 9:37 pm 9.Prime said …

    Not that your appeal to authority amounts to anything, Dez, but, for people who care for more than cherry picking…
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Albert_Einstein

  10. on 30 Jun 2012 at 10:13 pm 10.BB said …

    “93% of the National Academy of Sciences does not believe in a personal God.”

    Deceit? Who made a claim they all believed in a “personal God”? Will you now prove most scientist are atheist or can we continue to call it a lie?

    Dez nice quote from Einstein. He was not an atheist either. Well established fact.

  11. on 30 Jun 2012 at 10:24 pm 11.alex said …

    “Will you now prove most scientist are atheist or can we continue to call it a lie?”

    do it. what do you call your god? a delusion.

  12. on 30 Jun 2012 at 11:09 pm 12.Anonymous said …

    So, rather than address the indoctrination of children with xtian myths and fairy tales, Hor and the sock puppets immediately try to divert attention with their usual loaded questions and red herrings.

    How about this theists… why is it so important to you to brainwash children into believing in your goat herders’ camp fire stories?

  13. on 01 Jul 2012 at 12:13 am 13.alex said …

    “why is it so important to you to brainwash children into believing in your goat herders’ camp fire stories?”

    because the kids don’t have free will, yet. once, indoctrinated, they can go about their business.

    you theists crack me up. why don’t you go to a muslim mosque and try spewing your bullshit? you won’t? but you think it’s ok to come in here? oh, i forgot. you
    can hide behind your anonymous tag.

  14. on 01 Jul 2012 at 12:34 am 14.A said …

    “you theists crack me up. why don’t you go to a muslim mosque and try spewing your bullshit?”

    Why don’t you go to the mosque and spew yours alex?

    Nice bust on Anonymouse BB. He lies on a regular basis.

    Christians teach their kids what they believe to be true just like you guys will one day if you can find a woman.

  15. on 01 Jul 2012 at 12:37 am 15.alex said …

    “Why don’t you go to the mosque and spew yours alex”

    this is an atheist site, asshole. i’m calling out your bullshit.

    “if you can find a woman” wtf?

    why don’t you leave the kids alone?

  16. on 01 Jul 2012 at 12:40 am 16.alex said …

    “Christians teach their kids what they believe to be true”

    yeah, like santa claus. and like how elisha, the second greatest prophet ever, called out the bears with the can of whoop-ass.

  17. on 01 Jul 2012 at 5:15 am 17.Anonymous said …

    Um, why do “A” and “BB” write in the same style and with the same grammatical errors? From the way “A” backs up Dez they too look to be from the same person.

  18. on 01 Jul 2012 at 6:32 am 18.Lou(DFW) said …

    17.Anonymous said …

    “Um, why do “A” and “BB” write in the same style and with the same grammatical errors?”

    Because “they” all went to Hor’s school of punctuation.

  19. on 02 Jul 2012 at 2:19 am 19.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Here is the easiest way to make an ass clown like BB disappear quickly:

    Please provide any, ANY proof of your god. ANYTHING.

    This is a most appropriate demand, as you come here regurgitating nonsense and claiming that people who don’t subscribe to your flavor of delusion are “liars.”

  20. on 02 Jul 2012 at 8:50 am 20.RevWillyNilly said …

    “A said …

    ‘By trusting God, everything is possible… except the kids will NEVER be able to fly. How much more hypocritical can things get?’

    I have flown over a 1000 times. From Willis Wing hang gliders, the wingsuit to the 747-8.”

    A, you dolt, you conveniently left out “like superman, with a cape as pictured” from the original post. As is typical with most theists, you can only make an argument after you change the facts.

    So, tell us… By trusting God, will kids ever be able to fly like Superman?

  21. on 02 Jul 2012 at 1:48 pm 21.Lou(DFW) said …

    14.A said …

    “Christians teach their kids what they believe to be true…”

    The key word being BELIEVE, not know.

    “…just like you guys will one day if you can find a woman.”

    Rather than becoming a Catholic Priest, not finding a woman, and “teaching” kids?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

    PRAISE GOD!

  22. on 02 Jul 2012 at 5:11 pm 22.Lou(DFW) said …

    7.Dizzy said …

    “I’m not an atheist and I don’t think I can call myself a pantheist.”

    Dizzy, show us a quote wherein he claimed to be theist. That would be evidence that he was somehow on your side. The truth is that he wasn’t. Just like the evidence for your imaginary god, you can’t provide that evidence, either.

  23. on 02 Jul 2012 at 5:25 pm 23.DPK said …

    Hard to believe that theists are still trying desperately to perpetuate this lie. Let’s go to the source, Einstein himself:
    “It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

    Case closed. But, more to point… so what if Einstein WAS a theist? Why is it so important to them to want him on “their” side that they feel compelled to lie?

  24. on 02 Jul 2012 at 6:04 pm 24.Lou(DFW) said …

    23.DPK said …

    “Case closed. But, more to point… so what if Einstein WAS a theist? Why is it so important to them to want him on “their” side that they feel compelled to lie?”

    Simple – because that’s the essence of their belief, it’s based upon a lie.

    “Indeed, if miracles, answered prayers, and regrown limbs were seen, [and if Einstein was a theist] the faithful would trumpet this as evidence for God, and of course many believers are always looking (in vain) for such evidence, viz. the search for the remnants of Noah’s Ark, the supposed authenticity of the Shroud of Turin, the ludicrous attempts of creationists to verify that the Grand Canyon was caused by the flood. In truth, believers want, need, and look for for evidence for their faith.”

    https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/06/27/can-science-test-the-supernatural-yes/

    When they can’t find it, they lie about it.

  25. on 02 Jul 2012 at 6:23 pm 25.Lou(DFW) said …

    1.ASStrophysicist said …

    “By trusting God, everything is possible… except the kids will NEVER be able to fly. How much more hypocritical can things get?”

    “I have flown over a 1000 times. From Willis Wing hang gliders, the wingsuit to the 747-8.”

    Only in the last 110 years of his tens of thousands of years existence did scientific knowledge allow man to build flying-machines. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with “trusting god.”

    Oh yea, how does that “trusting god” delusion work during a plane crash that kills (trusting god) people?

  26. on 02 Jul 2012 at 8:48 pm 26.Boz said …

    Lou (DFW)said

    “The key word being BELIEVE, not know.”

    So the question must be asked what do you know Lou(DFW)as opposed to believe?

    Einstein was not on a side. He just wasn’t an atheist or an agnostic. Why do atheists want him on their side so badly?

  27. on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:06 pm 27.Lou(DFW) said …

    26.Bozo said …

    “So the question must be asked what do you know Lou(DFW)as opposed to believe?”

    No, it mustn’t. Don’t try to shift the burden of proof, because I didn’t make any claim.

    “Einstein was not on a side. He just wasn’t an atheist or an agnostic. Why do atheists want him on their side so badly?”

    Here we go again with the “I know you are, but what am I?” defense.

    Dizzy introduced Einstein to the discussion, not me. Why aren’t you asking HIM why HE needs Einstein? I don’t need him nor ANYBODY ELSE to reject a belief in an imaginary god.

  28. on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:10 pm 28.Prime said …

    26.Bozo said …

    “”Lou (DFW)said

    “The key word being BELIEVE, not know.”

    So the question must be asked what do you know Lou(DFW)as opposed to believe?”"

    Hmm… it doesn’t matter, in this case, what Lou(DFW) does know; it only matters what he doesn’t know. He’s not the one making major life decisions upon things he doesn’t know. That would be the theists.

  29. on 02 Jul 2012 at 9:58 pm 29.Boz said …

    Prime,

    Thanks for chiming in for Lou(DFW).

    Prime you are so original with Bozo. You and Lou(DFW) are two peas in a pod.

    So would you be answering for Lou(DFW) that he does not know anything?

    Would this be the claim of atheists? We know nothing?

    Let me recount the claims.

    Theist lie.
    Theist are delusional.
    Children will never fly (not much faith in evolution ironically)

    Since you and Lou(DFW) know nothing can we use that for these three claims?

  30. on 02 Jul 2012 at 10:30 pm 30.alex said …

    “We know nothing?”

    okay, moron. i’ll play. ima total ignoramus.

    therefore, i should believe in god? why not the great pumpkin? idiot.

  31. on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:38 am 31.A said …

    alex,

    You should believe in the great pumpkin. You really should.

    I would like to assist you further, but you need to get a good primary education first.

    Now play nice or we will need to make you sit during recess.

    Boz,

    These guys do not have the basic skills required to even support the 3 claims you posted. I fear this is the fault of our education system.

  32. on 03 Jul 2012 at 1:08 am 32.alex said …

    “I would like to assist you further, but you need to get a good primary education first.”

    i’ll put my education against yours any day.

    you start by stating your real name and the name of the rock you graduated from.

    yeah, you talk a lot of shit. your god ain’t gonna help you. anonymous? at least come up with a name.

  33. on 03 Jul 2012 at 1:48 am 33.Prime said …

    29.Bozo said …

    “Prime you are so original with Bozo.”

    The name fits, Bozo.

    “You and Lou(DFW) are two peas in a pod.”

    On this. I don’t think we agree on some other things, not that it matters. We do have superior grammar skills and a lack of idiotic beliefs, which distinguishes us rather clearly from you and yours.

    “So would you be answering for Lou(DFW) that he does not know anything?”

    Are you a liar or illiterate? I said what he knows is irrelevant. It is not delusional not to hold a belief on something you don’t know the relevant information. It is, on the other hand, delusional to hold a belief on something that you don’t know the relevant information. What I said, clearly enough the first time, is that what Lou knows or doesn’t know is irrelevant, no matter how hard you try to make it relevant in this case. Since I can’t fathom that you’re actually this stupid, I have to assume you’re at least somewhat disingenuous, i.e. a liar.

    “Would this be the claim of atheists? We know nothing?”

    No, you retard. This has been covered umpteen times. The claim of atheists is simple: we see no reason to believe in any sort of god (this is the claim, and it’s valid by our own admissions about what we see as foundations for reasonable belief), and thus we don’t believe in any sort of god (this is not a claim, it is a conclusion that defines us as atheists).

    Many atheists make other claims, for examples:
    -The God of Christianity and Islam is a fiction. This is provable and has been proved here before. Judges 1:19 + belief in omnipotence alone does it.
    -Christianity itself, whatever actual “god” might be behind it, is not verifiably true and contains many strong reasons to suspect that it is false.
    -Donkeys and snakes don’t talk and never did, whatever the bible says about the matter.
    -God, as presented in the bible, is not to be worshipped because he is an inept monster with the moral and intellectual development of a spoiled child.

    “Let me recount the claims.”

    This should be rich.

    “Theist lie.”

    If they claim that they know there is a God, then yes, they do. Most seem to lie more often than that, on here particularly about atheists. Normally, we might chalk it up to ignorance except that these statements are made repeatedly, which removes that absolution from the list of possibilities.

    “Theist are delusional.”

    Yes, by definition. Either you “KNOW” there is a God, in which case you’re lying, or you believe on faith, in which case you’re, BY DEFINITION, delusional.

    “Children will never fly (not much faith in evolution ironically)”

    Um, if you mean like in the picture, that’s probably true. I don’t know who says they’ll “never” fly, but this is just another term you’ve tried to prevaricate on already, so this assertion and any rebuttal we offer is a bullshit attempt on your part to “lure” us into a “bad” place, when indeed, this has to be the finest bit of chessboard-strutting I’ve seen since Christlover.

    “Since you and Lou(DFW) know nothing can we use that for these three claims?”

    Let’s start with the fact that this statement already proves that you’re a liar, per your first claim….

    Yet again, Bozo: stop trying to be clever. You’re not.

  34. on 03 Jul 2012 at 1:50 am 34.alex said …

    “You should believe in the great pumpkin. You really should.”

    ok. should i believe in the golden plates? what about the dude on the magical horse? ok, next, the mythical caucasian looking, middle eastern guy that hangs out with the easter bunny? so many choices, i guess, to cover pascal’s wager, i should believe in them all.

  35. on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:34 am 35.Boz said …

    “Theist lie.”
    If they claim that they know there is a God, then yes, they do.”

    Let’s settle it. Prove the claim. Prove the Christian God is not real. We are Innocent until proven guilty primate. Be a man and back up your claim. No passing the buck.

    “The claim of atheists is simple: we see no reason to believe in any sort of god”

    And theists see the need and acknowledge the evidence. But this is what will really blow you away. You are not the final authority on what constitutes proof. Prove us wrong.

    The rest of your post just confirms massive nonsense and ignorance. Stick with the two requests above and we will see if you have any potential.

  36. on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:40 am 36.alex said …

    “Let’s settle it. Prove the claim.”

    are you three years old? i don’t believe your bullshit, period. your god, your elves, your dunking ability, etc. i don’t have to prove shit.

    you say you can dunk, then do it, dunkenstein. your god is a bad motherfucker? then regenerate away, moron. can’t be too difficult for a god. child’s play after parting the red sea.

  37. on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:48 am 37.Lou(DFW) said …

    35.Bozo said …

    “Let’s settle it. Prove the claim.”

    You idiot, the claim was that theists lie.

    “Prove the Christian God is not real.”

    When all else fails, even the lying, then shift the burden of proof. It’s the theist way.

    “We are Innocent until proven guilty primate. Be a man and back up your claim. No passing the buck.”

    You moron, the “charge” is that god exists, not that he doesn’t exist. Theists are the PLAINTIFFS, not the defendants! The plaintiff-theists present their evidence to the court. If successful, the court will issue a judgment in favor of the plaintiff. Present your evidence for your imaginary god or your case is summarily dismissed as frivolous.

    It’s simply amazing that you are so damned dumb. To quote a movie line – “You behave as if stupidity were a virtue!”

  38. on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:55 am 38.Lou(DFW) said …

    33.Prime said …

    “Are you a liar or illiterate?”

    On another site there’s an entire thread on the discussion of why theists lie to support their delusion.

    One poster wrote it better than I could”

    “Misrepresentations that require either a depth of idiocy incompatible with literacy, or a deliberate & mendacious intent to deceive. Bare-faced lies. Erections of patently false lines of reasoning, again, suggesting either idiocy or mendacity, but given the number of times such ‘arguments’ get refuted & the fallacious lines of reasoning pointed out to them, must be the latter.”

  39. on 03 Jul 2012 at 3:17 am 39.Prime said …

    35.Bozo said …

    “”“Theist lie.”
    If they claim that they know there is a God, then yes, they do.”

    Let’s settle it. Prove the claim. Prove the Christian God is not real. We are Innocent until proven guilty primate. Be a man and back up your claim. No passing the buck.”"

    As Lou pointed out, this is shifting the burden of proof. More strutting on the chessboard, just like Christlover. When are you jokes going to go look that up and learn how it works? Again: it’s no one’s job to prove something isn’t real. It’s people’s jobs to prove that things are real. This isn’t complicated.

    So, do you KNOW there is a God?

  40. on 03 Jul 2012 at 6:17 am 40.Severin said …

    Boz,

    Aren’t you ashamed with your lies again?

    It was said: “Theist lie.”
    “If they claim that THEY KNOW (my bold) there is a God, then yes, they do.”

    You DO claim all the time that you KNOW there is a god, don’t they?
    To make other people KNOW there is a god, theists have to elaborate their claim. The best way would be to provide some evidences, which they never do.
    Now, it MUST be a lie, if they can’t prove their “knowing” to other people. They can only TELL us they “know” it.

    Actually you DO NOT KNOW there is a god.
    That is why your claim IS a lie.

    I KNOW there is a pink cat orbiting Jupiter and singing “yellow submarine”
    Do I lie?

  41. on 03 Jul 2012 at 11:20 am 41.Boz said …

    You are not the final authority on what constitutes proof. Prove us wrong.

    You make the claim we are wrong. Prove it.

    You seem to really care so you must know. Can you do it?

    I can prove I do not not have 6 fingers on my right hand. Therefore a negative can be proven. You don’t have that lame argument any longer.

  42. on 03 Jul 2012 at 11:22 am 42.Boz said …

    Also I didn’t shift the burden of proof. That would be on the one making the claim.

  43. on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:09 pm 43.alex said …

    “I can prove I do not not have 6 fingers on my right hand. Therefore a negative can be proven. ”

    i’ll play along. i can turn shit around, too.

    your proof of no six fingers is the evidence of sight. it’s obvious that the sixth digit is nowhere to be found. you can pray all you want, but it has no effect. you can argue that the sixth created the universe, but……

  44. on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:22 pm 44.alex said …

    “Also I didn’t shift the burden of proof. That would be on the one making the claim.”

    moron, the claim was christ, allah, zeus, etc. i say bullshit.

  45. on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:54 pm 45.Lou(DFW) said …

    41.Bozo said …

    “You are not the final authority on what constitutes proof. Prove us wrong.”

    You haven’t provided any proof that can be examined. So provide or “fail.”

    “You make the claim we are wrong. Prove it.

    You seem to really care so you must know. Can you do it?”"

    No, we did not. There’s nothing for us to prove – “fail.”

    “I can prove I do not not have 6 fingers on my right hand. Therefore a negative can be proven. You don’t have that lame argument any longer.”

    Once again, you’re using deception to avoid the issue. You are taking the common argument “You can’t prove a negative” out of context. Of course a “negative” can be proven, as you just easily demonstrated. In the context of these discussion, the phrase means that the non-existence of something can’t be proven – “fail.”

    The “argument” is not that a negative cannot be proven. The argument is that you don’t have any evidence for your imaginary god.

    All you continue to do is lie about atheists and shift the burden of proof.

    Let’s try to get this through your lying, thick skull again – the ONLY claim that requires evidence is this – GOD EXISTS.

    Do you have any evidence or not? This is a yes or no question. The absence of your reply constitutes a “no” reply.

  46. on 03 Jul 2012 at 12:56 pm 46.Lou(DFW) said …

    42.Bozo said …

    “Also I didn’t shift the burden of proof.”

    Yes, you did.

    “That would be on the one making the claim.”

    The claim is god exists.

    You are making that claim, are you not?

    According to your comment above, it’s you who has the burden of proof. So provide it or STFU.

  47. on 03 Jul 2012 at 2:51 pm 47.DPK said …

    41.Boz said …

    “You are not the final authority on what constitutes proof. Prove us wrong.

    You make the claim we are wrong. Prove it.”

    It is sad that you are so blinded by your own irrationality that you cannot even see how pathetic your statements are. By your logic:

    Zeus is the god of thunder. Thunder exists, and must have a cause. That cause is Zeus. There have also been countless books written about Zeus. Historically, there is much evidence that he existed, and that he is a god. If you do not believe in the existence of Zeus, then it is upon you to prove he is not real. You are making the positive claim that I am wrong… so prove it.

    Do you believe Zeus is real Boz?
    Why not?

  48. on 03 Jul 2012 at 3:13 pm 48.Lou(DFW) said …

    47.DPK said …

    “Do you believe Zeus is real Boz?
    Why not?”

    Yes, Zeus is real because he can prove that he doesn’t have six fingers on his right hand!

  49. on 03 Jul 2012 at 3:29 pm 49.anastasia said …

    Well here we are again, and I suppose it always comes down to this…

    The exsistence of a god cannot be proven by any measurable etc. means that we know of…. so there’s a fair chance that such a think doesn’t exsist

    the non exsistence of a god cannot be proven, as described so adequately by DPK above…. so theres a chance such a thing might exist

    Are we talking probabilities based on our known experience? in which case a god as usually described by theists is incredibly unlikely to exsist (but may do so)

    Or, do we choose to believe that the writings etc. put forward by theists are true records of the devine at work in the world.. …could be I suppose

    Personally i don’t believe in any god I’ve ever heard of, they are interesting myths and fables but no more to me. I don’t think that many atheists would say that it’s a fact that no god exists, I know i wouldn’t. I think it’s incredibly unlikely, but always possible..

    How many theists would be similarly open minded about atheism or other belief structures i wonder?

    ps. sorry if my english is not too good.. it’s not my usual language

  50. on 03 Jul 2012 at 3:49 pm 50.Lou(DFW) said …

    49.anastasia said …

    “How many theists would be similarly open minded about atheism or other belief structures i wonder?

    ps. sorry if my english is not too good.. it’s not my usual language”

    Then let’s confirm something that you seem to be inferring – theism is a “belief structure,” but atheism is NOT a “belief structure.” Atheism isn’t really even an “-ism.”

    A person is either a theist or they aren’t. It’s not necessary to proclaim “I am an atheist,” but only “I am not theist.”

    In the context of god, there’s no other “belief structure” than theism, but there are different religions, denominations, etc.

  51. on 03 Jul 2012 at 4:21 pm 51.DPK said …

    49.anastasia said …

    “Well here we are again, and I suppose it always comes down to this…”

    Yes, it ALWAYS comes down to this… the theists can offer nothing to support their claims about the existence of their gods. Indeed, they agree with atheists that all the OTHER people’s gods, and all the OTHER gods throughout history are in fact completely imaginary. Then they run through the argument from ignorance… “you can’t explain x.y.or z… so therefore it must be a god. Then, when all that is once again discredited and dismissed… the last resort… “You can’t prove god does not exist.” Which intellectually carries the same weight as saying “You can’t prove unicorns don’t exist.”
    And that about sums it up. Curious though that they never seem to tire of running around the same circle, even though they always end up at the same spot, which is exactly where they began, with nothing but superstitious myths, legends, and an almost pathological fear of death.

  52. on 03 Jul 2012 at 4:24 pm 52.anastasia said …

    Agreed… Sorry not what i meant,poor english. By belief structure i meant other systems of belief such as islam. Of corse atheism is a lack of belief.

  53. on 03 Jul 2012 at 8:05 pm 53.A said …

    Boz

    Have you ever seen a group of kids work so hard to avoid providing proof for their claims. I’ll recap a few.

    There is no God.
    Theists are delusional.
    Theists are liars.

    But then they oddly claim they don’t know anything????? True but that is non sequitur.

    What do they do? They resort to multiple fallacies going back to their lack of understanding about basic foundational issues. It is always the same

    Check out all the other claims on godisimaginary.com. Not one of them has supporting evidence. Only assumptions, diversions and lack of understanding.

    And they claim they make no claims :)

  54. on 03 Jul 2012 at 8:13 pm 54.A said …

    “i’ll put my education against yours any day. you start by stating your real name and the name of the rock you graduated from. yeah, you talk a lot of shit. your god ain’t gonna help you. anonymous? at least come up with a name.”

    The atheists failed to support the claims they now claim they didn’t make so I will go to this fun.

    alex claims I am anonymous. I have used A from the beginning. Would you be confusing me with B?

    Now if you don’t like anonymous, you will need to take on the atheist anonymous who posts here.

    Anonymous!!!, are you out there and are you taking in this request from alexander?

    :)

  55. on 03 Jul 2012 at 9:04 pm 55.alex said …

    “Now if you don’t like anonymous”

    misdirection, failed again. who’s the anonymous that said “you need to get a good primary education first”.

    if i said i owned a guard unicorn that would make me delusional. if a said, my guard unicorn keeps santa claus away, that doesn’t diminish the bullshit that is santa claus. and your god.

    you theists are so full of shit you just can’t see that what atheists do, think, or say, is irrelevant.

    what is your skin in the game? your heavenly destiny not secure enough? you going for the virgins dessert. why don’t you just leave folk alone?

  56. on 03 Jul 2012 at 9:14 pm 56.Boz said …

    A

    Regardless of when I post here the atheists never follow through on their claims

    The reasons they never follow through are simple. They make big claims but they really have no clue. They hate people who believe in God because they have something they want. Theist found the answers to the big questions and it angers the atheists. Atheism offers the adherents nothing and it can’t even follow through on that.

    alex

    I would reply but I decided to leave you alone. You have enough problems.

  57. on 03 Jul 2012 at 9:26 pm 57.alex said …

    “Regardless of when I post here the atheists never follow through on their claims”

    here’s the claim: i don’t believe your xtian god.
    here’s another: i don’t believe your muslim god.
    here’s another: i don’t believe your aztec god.
    here’s another: i don’t believe your hindu god.
    another: i don’t believe in any of the thousand gods.

    which one is your god? so it’s up to me, a nonbeliever to prove? if i can’t, then god exists?

    which one is your god? can you prove that the aztec god doesn’t exist? if you can’t, then Quetzalcoatl must exist?

    if you can’t see the problem, you’re just an asshole.

  58. on 03 Jul 2012 at 10:07 pm 58.Severin said …

    #56
    “They hate people who believe in God because they have something they want.”

    You are not only a liar.
    You are an idiot.

  59. on 03 Jul 2012 at 10:16 pm 59.Severin said …

    #56
    I don’t hate you.
    After so many lies and idiocies you posted here, I can’t even say I am sorry for you; I would if I thought the nature did it to you, but it didn’t. You are completely rotten character because you want to be.

    I don’t give a shit for you.

  60. on 03 Jul 2012 at 10:30 pm 60.alex said …

    “I don’t give a shit for you.”

    they shouldn’t even care. it’s the righteousness that makes them care. they think they’re going to heaven so, nyah, nyah! also the entitlement. from placing bibles in hotels and also tebowing to show everyone. do you see muslims doing that shit?

    i don’t go around saying “fuck god” or “fuck santa”. it’s offensive. these theist assholes just can’t see it. when i sneeze, people say “bless you” and i let it go most of the time. sometimes, i retort with “..and allah blesses you”.

  61. on 04 Jul 2012 at 12:14 am 61.Moss said …

    “do you see muslims doing that shit?”

    No, I see them beheading individuals, raping woman and bombing planes, buildings and nations.

    I’ll take the tebowing and Bibles in hotels, all legal and safe like. Who cares!

    Do you have a problem with atheist’s lawsuits and billboards? I bet not and neither do I.

    alex and severin your hate is ridiculous. The Christians haven’t done anything to hurt you. They just beat you in a debate. Move on mate.

  62. on 04 Jul 2012 at 12:24 am 62.alex said …

    “do you see muslims doing that shit?”

    “No, I see them beheading individuals, raping woman and bombing planes, buildings and nations.”

    you’re an idiot. where have you been? taking a break from beating up gays? can’t find an abortion clinic to bomb? tired of delivering your bibles? can’t find any kids to molest? should i continue?

    the xtians have won the debate? where/how? because you say so? the same idiot that says god exists? my god zeus can kick your god’s ass, how’s that?

    move on? this is an atheist site, idiot. you may move on.

  63. on 04 Jul 2012 at 12:30 am 63.alex said …

    moss, you’re just too stupid to get it.

    i know, you’ll claim you’re a good xtian and you don’t do all those hateful things. these are the same exact arguments that good muslims say.

    but, you’ll insist that your god is the one. all thru history, many different kinds of people all proclaim that their god is the one. same claims, same bullshit. and along comes idiot moss, trumpeting the same old tired shit.

  64. on 04 Jul 2012 at 6:07 am 64.Severin said …

    61 Moss
    “No, I see them beheading individuals, raping woman and bombing planes, buildings and nations.”

    You see exactly the same that Christians used to do some time ago (and are doing it today, less publicly).
    As I said, it is only question of timing.
    AND: Muslims believe in god and are doing their crimes in name of god EXACTLY as Christians used to do: let’s, for example, impose our religion to Indians (Africans, …) no matter what it costs (and you know how much it costed).
    There is ABSOLUTELY no difference between Christians and Muslims.

    “Do you have a problem with atheist’s lawsuits and billboards?”
    No. I have problem with all sort of churches with their towers, that I can’t avoid to see behind each corner, and even more with their loud and aggressive propaganda and their aggressive trying to impose their “philosophy” to everyone they see.
    Why don’t you practice your religions at your homes? Aren’t they (religions, believing in whatever) in the first place PRIVATE MATTER? Why are you so obsessed with other people thinking differently than you?
    Where your obsession with imposing your bullshit opinions to everybody comes from?
    I never ever tried to impose my atheism to anyone.

    “The Christians haven’t done anything to hurt you.”
    Except they killed G. Bruno (it hurts me!), they aggressively decelerated the progress of science (Galileo et al), they killed millions of Indians, they supported slavery, they burned “witches” (and I suspect one of them, burned 1743 in Croatia, was one of my great grand mother), they blow clinics, they inspired Hitler, …
    AND they teach children god created the universe.
    AND they shit about afterlife without any evidences, AND they impose fear of sex to children (MY children), AND …
    They did A LOT to me! All that, and more, hurts me.

    “alex and severin your hate is ridiculous.”
    I am unable to hate. If you see hate in my posts, something is very wrong with you.

  65. on 04 Jul 2012 at 6:16 am 65.Severin said …

    And, of course, Christianity, not atheism, inspired people to do THIS:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe6upL1EDRI

    It hurts me substantially.

  66. on 06 Jul 2012 at 4:59 am 66.gods child said …

    read everything you have wrote and think god doesn’t allow suffering mankind does it is man that made this world the way it is not god.stop blaming.g god he gave mankind the book to live by and like all children man thinks he knows what’s best in reality man knows nothing and it is mankind greed that has caused all the worlds abominations.

  67. on 07 Jul 2012 at 12:29 pm 67.Spurious Pseudoscientists said …

    First of all any decent mathematician can tell you a negative can be proven, and the equation is easily available. Secondly, absence of evidence is evidence of absence when there should have been some by now. Theist tell lies to belie their ignorance on evolution…..Oh, they tell them to try and prove evolution is incorrect? Well, what do they think first cause is? An automatic equation of proof that a god exist if …….this is a big if…………Snore………Anyway, they think they need not present any scientific evidence for a god, so I’ll throw Russell’s little ditty right back. Prove that there isn’t a celestial teapot circling the sun, and I’ll listen to more than you’ll ever know about the bible, which is still a lot less than I know. How’d you all feel about that religious quiz from April, 2011? LOL.

  68. on 07 Jul 2012 at 12:35 pm 68.Spurious Pseudoscientists said …

    @ Moss.LOL. Yeah sure. Like D’sousza beat Avalos on atheism causing the holocaust. I don’t recall a single debate won by Xians, especially since all the great apologist are now atheist. Dinesh didn’t seem to be aware of Luther’s 7 point pogrom on exterminating the Jews. Great debate and research D.D. LOL.

  69. on 07 Jul 2012 at 1:04 pm 69.Curmudgeon said …

    “First of all any decent mathematician can tell you a negative can be proven,”

    That leaves out prime.

    “absence of evidence is evidence of absence when there should have been some by now.”

    Oh like galaxies, stars, information, DNA, laws, cellular design and cellular respiration just to name a few? Your absence has been removed.

    “Prove that there isn’t a celestial teapot circling the sun,”

    See your first claim. Second, such comparisons have been discredited as fallacious. Third, we have no plans to begin a blog WWCTHA.

    Back to your first claim. Disprove God’s existence.

  70. on 07 Jul 2012 at 1:28 pm 70.alex said …

    “Disprove God’s existence.”

    moron, disprove santa’s existence. old shit, rerun.

    what’s your next move? my ancestry? more diversions? more pseudo genius shit? more obama nonsense? what, evolution is shaky? 40y fluff? cut/paste? more regurgitation?

    your god is not, give it up. leave folk alone. this is an atheist site. i’m allowed.

  71. on 07 Jul 2012 at 3:34 pm 71.Prime said …

    Curm#69 still doesn’t get it and still thinks he’s clever.

  72. on 07 Jul 2012 at 3:54 pm 72.Lou(DFW) said …

    69.Crum said …

    “Oh like galaxies, stars, information, DNA, laws, cellular design and cellular respiration just to name a few?”

    Right, there can’t be and aren’t any other valid explanations for all of those things.

    Because ANY OTHER THING EXISTS, GOD EXISTS! That’s the basis for your entire delusion.

  73. on 07 Jul 2012 at 5:38 pm 73.Severin said …

    66 gods child
    “read everything you have wrote and think god doesn’t allow suffering mankind does it”

    Those people would never do that if they weren’t believers. Never ever!

    Do you expect me to believe and support an idea ending in such horrors? No, thanks!

    And, why your (almighty?) god does not stop such horrors made in HIS name?

  74. on 07 Jul 2012 at 7:28 pm 74.DPK said …

    69.Curmudgeon said …

    “First of all any decent mathematician can tell you a negative can be proven,”

    That leaves out prime.”

    Curmudgeon, in his sad attempt at wit, once again unknowingly broadcasts his ignorance and stupidity to the world, equating a mathematical concept with the idea of reasonable belief in something in the physical world.
    Numbers are IDEAS… and as such any IDEA you can conceive of exists as a mathematical concept. So yes, a negative number can be the answer to an equation and can be proven, as can the idea that a mathematical sum is NOT equal to something (proving a negative). But Curm… since you claim to be brilliant that Prime, or any of us who do not buy into your bullshit theistic beliefs… show us please, a negative quantity that exists in reality, outside the human mind. Show us please, -100 coffee beans… where do they exist? Show us a -million gallons of water. Since you can’t do that, lets try something simpler for you, that equates directly with what you are demanding of us. Since you claim you can prove a negative, go ahead and prove for us that Russel’s celestial teacup does NOT exist.
    Will this be another challenge that you will run away from, like you did in the other thread when you failed to back up your claim that 40yr “provides solid arguments and does so in in a mature way.” Did you think everyone wouldn’t notice that you walked away from that one, like you do ALL your baseless claims and lies?
    Why do you continue to keep coming back here, again and again to be made a fool? You’d think you would tire of it by now.

  75. on 11 Jul 2012 at 8:35 am 75.wamos said …

    Hey a lot of interesting information. I hope you all have children then you could treat them the way you athiests talk about someone elses god. But your god is a real god. A god that is giving you an image of faulsehood that nothing else matters at all (metelica said that).Me I say this there are many gods heaps some call them satan, Jesus, God, Allaha,carry on and on. Well your god obviously lets you down time and again. Because you dont know that its not in going to church (in a building) but in a relationship with some person who loves you with all your faults that is a God. Yes ask yourself what motivates you? some say sex, drugs, helping others, I say that that is your motivator, and that motivator is your god. ep, a god is a motivator, so look at what you have writen is it positive or negative , have you put others down in what you wrote? Then your God (motivator) has given you negative understanding and you seem to be following that.Now take your motivatore away and what do you have left?

    I have a motivator what I call a God and that is LOVE! It tends me to helping others forgiving others not seeing the fault in others but sharing and helping others. Now I ask you to try and take that God away… can you ,,,NO you ant because you can see my God in my actions but you cant take it away because He lives in side of me. Try Him He can never and will never let you down.

    BUT He will NEVER force you to live the way you should because He NEVER made you to be a computer, thats why you are given choices, and when WE all go wrong from time to time He forgives and helps you and I to get on a right road. I have thought and studied and never found any other person who has only asked one thing of us all…to love one another and that is JESUS.

  76. on 11 Jul 2012 at 9:47 am 76.Lou(DFW) said …

    74.DPK said …

    “Curmudgeon, in his sad attempt at wit, once again unknowingly broadcasts his ignorance and stupidity to the world, equating a mathematical concept with the idea of reasonable belief in something in the physical world.”

    “Will this be another challenge that you will run away from, like you did in the other thread when you failed to back up your claim that 40yr “provides solid arguments and does so in in a mature way.” Did you think everyone wouldn’t notice that you walked away from that one, like you do ALL your baseless claims and lies?”

    Is anyone surprised at his lack of response?

  77. on 11 Jul 2012 at 5:51 pm 77.Prime said …

    Actually, 74.DPK, I don’t think that’s exactly what Crum meant in 69. I expect he meant that you can use reductio ad absurdum to prove things like that “the square root of two is not a ratio of two integers” or “there is a number that is simultaneously even and odd.”

    The thing he doesn’t understand is that this is on a completely different playing field from making claims about the natural world, and the thing about God as an abstraction is twofold bad for him:
    1. Who the hell cares, then?
    2. Most claims about abstract God can be destroyed by reductio ad absurdum, as you have done on here repeatedly, once they own up to some definition.

  78. on 11 Jul 2012 at 5:52 pm 78.Prime said …

    Correction: the second thing you might prove with reductio ad absurdum should read “there is NOT a number that is simultaneously even and odd.”

  79. on 16 Aug 2012 at 2:44 pm 79.asg said …

    First of all I am a true Christian and I can not believe this web site its disgustingly horrific to actually see so many think that God is not real. Who do u think you are how do u think there is breath in your body every morning you wake up and throughout the day let me guys ur just so mighty that you can do it on ur own well think again… I know God is real in my life you must have not tried him …if you stop trying to control your life and let God you will see but its by your faith of course u will not see what u think u ought to see from Him until u let Him be your saviour and look how great and merciful He is that u still have breath in your bodies food on your tables clothes on ur back and a roof over ur head u and u alone can do nothing I pray that you will all open your eyes and honestly examine yourselves how happy are u without God? I have joy everyday at the age of 22 and i dont need alcohol drugs parties nonf that i happily married with 4 kids I got joy everyday I’m not sad depressed angry or anything I’ve had a child pass away. 2 yrs ago my father pass when I was 12 a mom who rather get her life together than be in her children’s the Lord My God has deliver me from my enemy and from hell fire I love Him and I know He’s real to me no matter what… God Is Real!

  80. on 16 Aug 2012 at 3:09 pm 80.MrQ said …

    asg,

    You seem to have come to the decision to accept god with a lot of thought. It seems to have worked for you.
    Just one small question for you. It is something that most theists on this site avoid. It will show everyone how much research that you’ve put into deciding to accept god. Here it is:

    What is the age of our planet Earth and the universe?

    There was a someone (named Horatio) on this WWGHA site who said our planet is 4.6 billion years old. Do you agree? And the universe is about 14 billion years old.

  81. on 16 Aug 2012 at 4:20 pm 81.DPK said …

    asg gets the award for the longest run on sentence ever written.

    What makes you think I am not happy and fulfilled?
    I have a great life with love and real people, and don’t need a make believe friend to feel worthwhile.

    I am sorry to hear you lost a child. I’ve never had that experience. I can only imagine your pain, and I can understand why you find the thought that your child is in some magical place happily waiting for you is so comforting to you that you are willing to believe anything to keep that delusion intact.

    Just realize that not everyone is as co-dependent as you, and that a great many people can live very happy, very fulfilling lives without believing in lies and fairy tales.

  82. on 16 Aug 2012 at 4:45 pm 82.Lou(DFW) said …

    80.DPK said …

    “80.DPK said …

    “asg gets the award for the longest run on sentence ever written.”

    Too many Speed Racer cartoons?

    “What makes you think I am not happy and fulfilled? I have a great life with love and real people, and don’t need a make believe friend to feel worthwhile.”

    Are strippers “real people?” ;>)

    People like asg are in a sad place.

    Despite his claim to “have joy everyday,” he must denigrate atheists in order to justify and legitimize his claim. In reality, he most likely is unhappy (married with four kids – yikes), and his only hope for happiness is an imaginary heaven afterlife. He will finally get his reward, and all of we atheists will receive our punishment (for being happy).

    SO THERE!

  83. on 16 Aug 2012 at 4:49 pm 83.DPK said …

    Kind of like an alcoholic who can’t comprehend how other people can be happy being sober, these types are addicted to their “Jesus high” and can’t comprehend how anyone else can live without it.
    It’s a drug.

  84. on 16 Aug 2012 at 6:05 pm 84.Lou(DFW) said …

    82.DPK said …

    “It’s a drug.”

    I used to be all messed up on drugs, then I found the Lord….Now, I’m all messed up on the LORD !

  85. on 16 Aug 2012 at 6:12 pm 85.DPK said …

    Exactly… which is probably why you find so many people with addictive personalities and past issues among the ranks of the “born again”. They trade one type of dependency for another.
    D

  86. on 14 Sep 2012 at 6:47 pm 86.Charles said …

    Every rational response was met with a sounds like spam. Apparently only one side can be posted unles the comments are ridiculous ones you can make fun of. Way to stack the deck with foolishness. You believe what you choose but cannot really prove it either way. You won’t know until you die…good “luck” with that…

  87. on 14 Sep 2012 at 7:56 pm 87.Ben said …

    “First of all I am a true Christian and I can not believe this web site its disgustingly horrific to actually see so many think that God is not real.”

    There is not that many asg. They seem to be the ones with the most time to spend on blogs.

  88. on 14 Sep 2012 at 9:34 pm 88.DPK said …

    Yes, keep telling yourself that, Ben. “There’s not that many, there’s not that many….”
    Then ask yourself, when people get sick, how many go to a doctor, and how many go to a priest or Imam?
    That will show you how many true believers there actually are… hahahaha.
    How about you Ben? When you get sick, do you trust in god and the power of prayer to make you better, or do you default to the heathen scientist?
    Remember the story of Peter walking on water? Methinks you’re doomed…………….

  89. on 03 Aug 2013 at 5:44 am 89.Sad said …

    It is pathetic that a country founded and initially colonized by those that feared God now has this freedom for those who hate him to spew their filth. Maybe an unforgiving theocracy that could purge us of this filth is needed.

  90. on 03 Aug 2013 at 7:02 am 90.Angus and Alexis said …

    “It is pathetic that a country founded and initially colonized by those that feared God”

    I didnt get the context of this.
    But america was founded by American Indians, AKA, they didnt believe in “God” as you know him.

  91. on 03 Aug 2013 at 9:08 pm 91.DPK said …

    No sad, no one hates your imaginary god. That would be like hating the Keebler Elves. What we hate is the idea that you have that your ridiculous beliefs demand respect just because they involve some “god” or other. And we hate and fear facist crazies like you who actually want “an unforgiving theocracy” to ram your delusions down everyone’s throat by force. If that’s what you really want why don’t you move to Iran?

  92. on 03 Aug 2013 at 11:01 pm 92.A said …

    “But america was founded by American Indians”

    LOL!!! Ding ding ding, we have a winner. No more calls please.

    Yep, the good ol US of A was founded by the tribal Indian sects not the Euros. All this time I thought is was founded by Og and Gog, lol!!!

  93. on 04 Aug 2013 at 2:07 am 93.Angus and Alexis said …

    “A”
    You are an adiot, im asuming you dont think australia was founded by aboriginals, but instead christian british people who killed almost all of the native population in the name of god?

  94. on 04 Aug 2013 at 2:26 am 94.alex said …

    “Yep, the good ol US of A was founded by the tribal Indian sects not the Euros.”

    yep, typical motherfucker m.o. grab any fucking word and lol the motherfucking shit out of it. then pull out the toe shit and wag it about like a dumbfuck theist you are. anything else, disphit? more swimming the ocean if you can swim the pool? socks?

  95. on 04 Aug 2013 at 3:42 pm 95.DPK said …

    The United States of America was in fact founded by people trying to escape the tyranny of European theocracies, and who were wise enough to write safeguards into the framework to prevent exactly the kind of “unforgiving theocracy” that Sad is anxious for from becoming possible. They understood full well that freedom of religion also requires freedom from religion for those that desire it.

  96. on 05 Aug 2013 at 4:07 am 96.the messenger said …

    95.DPK, America was founded by GOD.

    The rights within the bill of rights are known as “GOD given rights”.

    George Washington attended mass at Anglican churches and attended regular services with his wife frequently.

    John Jay was a member of the Episcopalian church.

    Samuel Adams was a Congregationalist.

  97. on 05 Aug 2013 at 4:24 am 97.the messenger said …

    95.DPK, the founders of America were not trying to escape any theocrats.

    They were trying to escape from the tyranny of English rule.

    The English government was a very unholy, and barbaric one. It did not follow the laws of GOD, and was not a country of GOD. It was a country that had abandoned GOD.

    England became consumed with great poverty and decided to tax the English colonies of North America. They taxed many things and never gave the settlers any say in the decision making.

    The English settlers were tired of bieng tormented by their cruel, godless rulers.

    They decided to form a new country based on the teachimgs of GOD, such as the following.

    1. All people are equal under GOD and the law.

    2. All people are entitled to rights that are GOD given.

    3. People have the right to control what their government does. And no human can rule over them, except Jesus.

    The founding of America was not caused by a desire to escape theorcrates, it was founded by a desire for a new nation where people could have rights and would control their government and would be founded by GOD.

  98. on 05 Aug 2013 at 4:27 am 98.the messenger said …

    John Dickinson was associated with the Quakers.

  99. on 05 Aug 2013 at 8:04 am 99.Angus and Alexis said …

    Or in the case of the American founders, kill off the natives ;P
    *i dont like americans, or the english ;D*

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