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Christianity &Islam &Judaism Thomas on 25 Mar 2012 12:06 am

A Christian Explains His Evidence for God

In the comments on this post a Christian explains his evidence for God:

My Evidence:

1. A conscious experience of the Holy Spirit guiding my life
A. evident by providential events in my life that have moved me forward

2. Witnessing miracles
A. I have seen several unexplainable acts of God.

3. Answered prayers
B. I talk to God as a friend, and He answers my prayers
-not answered in the sense of giving me what I want, but answered in the sense of giving me what I need and telling me the truth in situations.

4. Years of righteous men who if it weren’t for them, you wouldn’t have America and freedom and the ability to post your opposition for the world to see.

If thats not enough, then I don’t know what to tell ya. You believe in quarks, atoms, black holes, yet you do not believe in that which is in your own heart.

This seems like such an odd collection. Let’s examine them one at a time.

The first one is amusing. If someone really had “the Holy Spirit guiding my life”, meaning an all-knowing, all-powerful being guiding his life, wouldn’t you expect his life to be perfect and awesome? Wouldn’t you expect him to be able to say something so full of beauty and wisdom that the rest of us are left speechless? Wouldn’t you expect that beauty and wisdom to be flowing from his mouth and his pen constantly? Wouldn’t you expect him to know something, anything, that the rest of us do not know?

The second one claims witnessed miracles. Strangely, none of these miracles are ever recorded by a camera.

Answered prayers, really? Again it is strange that none of these answered prayers are ever recorded. And none of them ever work out when statistically analysed. And poor people starving around the world get left out when they pray. And God never answers the prayers of amputees to restore their lost limbs. All of that doesn’t matter. Matt believes God is “giving me what I need and telling me the truth in situations.”

Here is another response from the comments:

Your evidence:
1. Subjective. Universally available and equally confirmative of any view–Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Flying Spaghetti Monster, atheist, belief that Paula Abdul loves me, etc.

2. Um… examples? Bear in mind that “I can’t explain it” doesn’t imply “it can’t be explained.” You might want to read David Hume on Miracles and Anatole France’s little essay entitled “Miracle.”

3. Um.. Does God talk back (presumably to tell you the truth)? In whose voice does God talk back to you? Does it sound suspiciously like your own, or maybe like Morgan Freeman’s?

4. Righteous men do not imply anything about God. Righteous men prove that men can be righteous, by which we mean good, not righteous in the religious sense.

There is actual evidence, physical evidence, for quarks and black holes. Atoms have actually been observed with electron microscopes. My heart pumps blood; it doesn’t think. I think you mean to say that I don’t trust my temporal lobes and anterior cingulate cortex, but I do trust those–and understand them to be part of my biology instead of an indication of supernatural powers.

It is a strange, strange world Christians live in, devoid of evidence, rationality, even sense. We can only hope that one day they may be cured of these delusions.

38 Responses to “A Christian Explains His Evidence for God”

  1. on 25 Mar 2012 at 8:51 pm 1.Improbable Joe said …

    Maybe not so much “provably false” as it is “obviously stupid”? It is mostly subjective and/or cherry-picking, which might convince him… but what we call “evidence” by definition needs to be able to be demonstrated to other people.

  2. on 27 Mar 2012 at 12:17 am 2.Anonymous said …

    One thing that came out of that thread, is that we never got to learn about anything that was any different from what happened to believers in other gods or non-believers. This would be exactly what you would expect if gods did not exist.

    Indeed, with so many different gods, so many different religions, some with different sects, somewhere there ought to be some dramatic difference with that god doing something for his people, yet no one can demonstrate one. It’s as if, gosh, gods are imaginary.

    In the referenced thread we saw how when even the pick-and-choose that goes on when Christianity with its 38,000 different varieties isn’t enough to explain the mismatch between dogma and reality, the believer rolls out “his god” with whom he has a “relationship” as a “friend”. Basically, redefining “god” to be something malleable enough to force-fit whatever vague version of “evidence” or “truth” is currently in play – Self projection as god.

    Rather than desperately seeking Susan, a more apt headline for a believer’s “journey” such as above might be “desperately seeking rationalizations for conclusions delivered via indoctrination that can’t be justified based on reality”.

  3. on 27 Mar 2012 at 5:04 am 3.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Fricking miracles. “I can’t explain it, therefore it’s a miracle of god.” Or you’re an ignorant person who needs to do some logical thinking and research on the unexplained things in your life.

    And where is the holy spirit when you experience things in life that move you backward, for lack of a better term? Is it on vacation?

  4. on 27 Mar 2012 at 10:22 am 4.alex said …

    I’ve said it before. Religion is perfect for racists, homophobes, misogynists, and pedophiles. Theists confuse the general lust for women as one of the aforementioned and when they do lust, they are overwhelmed with guilt. Same thing with other normal things like coveting your neighbor’s car, blah! blah!

    Theists guilts (and sins) are washed away as they say and they get to start all over again. But the guilt doesn’t completely go away. If the theist is a closet homo, he rails againts and sometimes beat up fags. If the theist’s wife had a abortion, he crusades against it…and the beat goes on.

    Sound familiar hor?

  5. on 27 Mar 2012 at 7:38 pm 5.Asher said …

    “This seems like such an odd collection. Let’s examine them one at a time.”

    OK

    If someone really had “the Holy Spirit guiding my life”…..wouldn’t you expect his life to be perfect and awesome?”

    No, not for those who know the Bible & Jesus. “If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.”

    “Wouldn’t you expect him to know something, anything, that the rest of us do not know?”

    Yes, and the post has proven this to be true.

    “Strangely, none of these miracles are ever recorded by a camera.”

    Uh Huh, and? Like a camera inside a cell?

    “Answered prayers, really? Again it is strange that none of these answered prayers are ever recorded.”

    Sure they have, this poster has recorded his answered prayers. Millions and millions have done the same.

    “And poor people starving around the world get left out when they pray.”

    Untrue, check out Compassion International.

  6. on 27 Mar 2012 at 8:35 pm 6.alex said …

    “Sure they have, this poster has recorded his answered prayers. Millions and millions have done the same.”

    …yeah right. show me the money.

    praying to odin, would have yielded different results?.

    is this your proof? weak. google(-1)

  7. on 27 Mar 2012 at 9:32 pm 7.Lou (DFW) said …

    5.Asher said …

    And there’s just as much evidence that the invisible purple gnome who lives in my dishwasher has done all of those things. Therefore, he is real.

  8. on 27 Mar 2012 at 11:12 pm 8.Curmudgeon said …

    We’ve got a live one. This Lou character thinks gnomes live in his dishwaher. Just gonna walk riigghhhttt pas this guy.

    Asher,

    Don’t know if you have read any of the post from 40 year atheist but they are well worth reading. He does a great job at destroying the atheists mantra that if there is no material evidence then it must not be true. Of course there is tons of indirect evidence, but atheist require a level of evidence they don’t even set for evolution, abiogenesis or oort clouds. In other words, they lower the bar for what they WANT to believe in.

  9. on 28 Mar 2012 at 12:17 am 9.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Ok Curmudgeon you tool. I’ll bite.

    Where is your “indirect” evidence for god???

  10. on 28 Mar 2012 at 12:49 am 10.Curminator said …

    Maybe you guys haven’t read that much from 40yA, but his stuff gets torn to bits every time he posts something. Why? Because it’s ridiculous. He’s just the only one of you guys that can use big words out of philosophy textbooks and therefore puts on a good show for you. Too bad it’s all smoke and mirrors.

    Know what he can’t do? Provide even “indirect” evidence that there’s a God.

    Let’s make a deal: if 40yA can provide for his idea of God even 10% of the evidence that exists for evolution (regardless of if you’re aware of it or not), then we’ll all slap him on the back and see him at church on Sunday.

  11. on 28 Mar 2012 at 2:23 am 11.Lou (DFW) said …

    8.Curmudgeon said …

    “Asher,

    Don’t know if you have read any of the post from 40 year atheist but they are well worth reading.”

    Of course you do, sock-puppet.

    “He does a great job at destroying the atheists mantra that if there is no material evidence then it must not be true.”

    Hor is lying about atheists again. First of all, there is no atheist mantra to destroy, not that he even destroys an imaginary (like his god) atheist mantra.

    Second, there is no atheist claim that because there’s no evidence for something that is doesn’t exist. However, it is true that theists don’t have ANY evidence for their imaginary god, because NO SUCH EVIDENCE exists, not necessarily because god doesn’t exist. But not only is there no evidence for god, there’s no need for one, except for people who need a crutch. There’s no more need for god than there is for the invisible purple gnome who lives in my dishwasher, or for leprechauns, tooth fairies, and Santa Claus.

  12. on 28 Mar 2012 at 6:15 am 12.Severin said …

    Asher, Curmudgeon,

    Some 50 years ago, at a dorm, I had oportunity to live with a Muslim for 7 – 8 months in the same room. It was a very nice guy, who spent a lot of his time in praying his god his specific way.
    He told me that, OF COURSE, his god Allah answered his prayers, he had many and many examples of Allah answering HIS specific prayers and prayers of his mother who prayed Allah for many things for her beloved son, that became real. To pass exams, for example. To heal a cold. To get a good job during the study, to earn extra money.

    He also had some examples of Allah’s non-responding to his and his mother’s prayers, he did not deny the fact, but it was Allah’s will, he said, that had to be respected.

    I wonder which god was that?
    Was it Allah?
    Was it Christian god who answered prayers of a Muslim?

    Can you help me to understand?

  13. on 28 Mar 2012 at 6:32 am 13.Severin said …

    Asher, Curmudgeon,
    I mean, I never prayed any god for anything, Christian or Muslim, and I sometimes achieved what I wanted and sometimes did not, but it happened that I more frequently got what I wanted than not.
    It was probably because I worked hardly to get what I want, but I am not sure. Maybe Allah, whom I never asked anything, helped me voluntarily.
    Maybe it was Christian god who helped me?

    Or, maybe it was Kon Tiki?

  14. on 28 Mar 2012 at 4:03 pm 14.Curminator said …

    12.Severin said …

    “Asher, Curmudgeon,
    He told me that, OF COURSE, his god Allah answered his prayers, he had many and many examples of Allah answering HIS specific prayers and prayers of his mother who prayed Allah for many things for her beloved son, that became real. To pass exams, for example.”

    I went to college with a guy who decided to pray instead of study for his Calculus III final exam. He was very devout; a youth minister in a Methodist campus organization. He made a 22/100 on what was probably the easiest mathematics final I’ve ever taken.

    Maybe this God hates Methodists?

    My friend explained it via the Disney movie “Angels in the Outfield,” telling me plainly that in the big games, you’re on your own. (This, I guess, is what passes for “sophisticated theology.”) Then he thanked God for reminding him of that lesson. He never finished Calc III, changed his major, and took 7 more years to graduate college. True story.

  15. on 28 Mar 2012 at 5:01 pm 15.DPK said …

    But, don’t you get it? He was simply following the path that god had laid out for him!
    Defending religious belief is like taking a test in which there are no wrong answers, because every possible outcome is the correct one.
    If a little child nearly gets hit by a drunk driver.. god protected her. If she actually gets hit but doesn’t die… god saved her life. If she gets hit and is killed, god called her home because he needed her in heaven more than he needed her here.
    You can’t win because they can’t lose. Rationalization to the 99th power.

  16. on 28 Mar 2012 at 5:02 pm 16.DPK said …

    “Maybe this God hates Methodists?”

    Judging by the number of churches that burn down every year, I’d think it’s safe to assume that god hates churches.

  17. on 28 Mar 2012 at 5:36 pm 17.Curminator said …

    Indeed.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2012/03/illinois-miracle-altar-spared-after-church-hit-by-tornado/

  18. on 28 Mar 2012 at 6:04 pm 18.AntiCurminator said …

    Curm

    You haven’t heard? Personal experience does not count.

    So will you be proving that a God does not exist or arguing against religion.

  19. on 28 Mar 2012 at 6:22 pm 19.Curminator said …

    18.AntiCurminator said …
    “Curm
    You haven’t heard? Personal experience does not count.
    So will you be proving that a God does not exist or arguing against religion.”

    Of all the stupidity.
    I give an example of a guy using his religion to make a stupid decision, and it’s anecdotal evidence all of a sudden.
    Then I’m asked (I think–illegible question) to prove God doesn’t exist, as if that’s what I was trying to do, or maybe I’m supposed to “arguing against religion.”?

    1. Just like we don’t prove Santa doesn’t exist, we don’t prove God doesn’t exist. Tsk, tsk… burden of proof is on the positive claim.

    2. Arguing against religion is easy and most of us do it regularly. The rather funny bit is that even theists jump on board these days–you can even believe in a God and argue against religion, it turns out, since social orders built upon believing in things that cannot be proven are themselves provably bad ideas.

  20. on 28 Mar 2012 at 11:39 pm 20.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Oh I have definitely heard….that the bird is the word…

  21. on 29 Mar 2012 at 1:51 am 21.AntiCurminator said …

    “burden of proof is on the positive claim.”

    When you claim:

    “God is imaginary”

    “God is a delusion”

    “God is not real”

    You are presenting a positive claim. That requires proof. Now you never claim which God the statement is representing but that is to be expected. So, now get to it. Provide some proof.

    Or, will you continue to argue against religion? You have a focus issue but stick with one or the other for now. I’ll let you know when you can move on.

  22. on 29 Mar 2012 at 2:24 am 22.Curminator said …

    21.AntiCurminator said …
    “burden of proof is on the positive claim.”
    When you claim:
    “God is imaginary”
    “God is a delusion”
    “God is not real”
    You are presenting a positive claim. That requires proof. Now you never claim which God the statement is representing but that is to be expected. So, now get to it. Provide some proof.
    Or, will you continue to argue against religion? You have a focus issue but stick with one or the other for now. I’ll let you know when you can move on.”

    Sigh. Let’s do numbers.
    1. You aren’t the arbiter here. As usual, you switch subjects at will instead of presenting evidence for your God. Now you presume to tell us how we’ll argue? Right.

    2. The claims that God is imaginary and that God is not real are not positive claims. They are negative claims. They require no substantiation. This is true even in the case of “God is imaginary” because imaginary is implied to mean “existing in the imagination but not real.” Thus, I don’t give proof. You claim there is such a thing, so you give the proof.

    3. The claim that “[belief in] God is a delusion” is a positive claim. It is easy to establish too. Since there is no evidence to believe in God, we cannot conclude anything but “God is not real” until there is evidence for him. Belief in things that aren’t real is, by definition, delusional. Is that QED enough for you?

    4. These claims apply to every God, from the abstract philosopher’s God (the only one that is philosophically defensible) and absent creator to Zeus, Ra, Queztalcoatl, Yahweh, Allah, God as the Trinity, Bacchus, Thor, Brahman, etc. etc. etc. Now I have claimed which God I’m talking about: any and all of them.

    5. I will continue to argue against religion as well. I can do both. It’s really easy. As religion is the organized worship of a God that hasn’t been established, and since it must use all kinds of disingenuous tactics to maintain itself as a consequence, it is not a loss of focus to argue against it.

    Interestingly, we’re not even arguing that God doesn’t exist. You can’t really do that–yet again, that’s a negative claim. We’re arguing that you’re not providing evidence that God does exist. Well, that and your incessant use of lies, dodges, and logical fallacies to try to support your theistic claims.

  23. on 29 Mar 2012 at 6:02 am 23.Severin said …

    Asher, Curmudgeon

    Where are you?
    Shall we ever get your answer about who answered prayers of my Muslim colleague?
    He and his mother prayed a lot for almost any wish or need he wanted to be fulfilled, and I was told that Allah answered almost all their prayers. He never married the lady he and his mother prayed Allah for, but almost all other prayer of him were generously answered: he was a very good student, he got a nice car from his father, he got nice job after he finished his study, he even got (bought) a rare and expensive precious book he once saw somewhere and strongly prayed his god to enable him to have it. He finally bought it and was really happy and thanked Allah a lot! I witnessed it.
    Then, I recall, my girl friend was Catholic and was sure that a god generously answered HER prayers too. She told me that she prayed god to meet me, for example, and god answered her prayer. She prayed god not to get pregnant on her first sex, and she got it. Well, she also prayed god to get enough money for modern shoes, but god did not answer that, not at that time.
    I met her some 25 years after that again and I saw very nice, very expensive shoes on her feet. Was it a miracle?
    My other colleague was orthodox Christian, and convinced me that god richly gave him what he prayed for, rarely denied him anything. He prayed god that his father buys him a motor bike, and he got it.
    He prayed god to have god GPA to get a scholarship, and he got it.
    Etc, I was flooded with examples how their gods answer almost all their prayers.

    I have a problem with understanding which god answered all their prayers!?
    So, gentlemen, which god was it?

  24. on 29 Mar 2012 at 7:21 am 24.alex said …

    “When you claim:
    “God is imaginary”
    “God is a delusion”
    “God is not real”
    You are presenting a positive claim. That requires proof”

    this is bullshit and diversionary. just nonsensical waste of my remaining ticks. positives, negatives, blah, blahs. The statements above are repudiations.

    I say magicians are fake. You say otherwise? Prove it. Your gaad is a FAKE? Your proof, not mine.

    You come to my house with that Mormon golden tablet bs and I say bleh! I don’t have to prove shit!

  25. on 29 Mar 2012 at 3:42 pm 25.Lou (DFW) said …

    21.AntiCurminator said …

    “burden of proof is on the positive claim.”

    When you claim:

    “God is imaginary”

    “God is a delusion”

    “God is not real”

    Those are not “positive” claims as understood in the context of this discussion. So stop being stupid and simply present evidence for your imaginary god.

  26. on 29 Mar 2012 at 6:58 pm 26.AntiCurminator said …

    Cur

    Still can’t put together the evidence for your positive claims? Search the site, those are just a couple of the positive claim statements with no evidence. This website via the sister site makes a very bold positive claim. God is imaginary.

    Go ahead, I’m a very fair minded guy. Give me the proof and I will be this site’s first conversion.

    Sev, personal experience are not admissible. You should know that.

    Alex, you are the great communicator. Well done.

  27. on 29 Mar 2012 at 7:33 pm 27.Curminator said …

    AntiCurm: you are clearly at least selectively illiterate.

  28. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:24 pm 28.Severin said …

    26 AC
    “Sev, personal experience are not admissible. You should know that.”

    No other experiences with answered prayers but personal!
    If they do not count, what do we have?

    Thank you, AC, you told us how imbecile are ideas about answered prayers!
    Personal experiences do not count and experiences other than personal do not exist, conclusion: story about answered prayers is an „imbeciliade“

    I knew it already, but I thank you as to a theist for confirming it!

  29. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:38 pm 29.AntiCurminator said …

    AntiCurm: you are clearly at least selectively illiterate.

    Curm,

    You always communicate at a level the audience can comprehend….curm. It’s the mark of a great communicator.

  30. on 29 Mar 2012 at 10:19 pm 30.Curminator said …

    29.AntiCurminator said …

    “You always communicate at a level the audience can comprehend….curm. It’s the mark of a great communicator.”

    Indeed, it is, and I do. It’s a nice comparison to draw between us. Thanks.

  31. on 29 Mar 2012 at 11:28 pm 31.AntiCurminator said …

    You are welcome Curmster!

  32. on 09 Apr 2012 at 9:09 am 32.Erwin L Sanders said …

    Good list, nice and easy to pick apart, but I would like to just focus on the second one -

    2. Witnessing miracles
    A. I have seen several unexplainable acts of God.

    I can assure you that all because you have seen an event occur that you cannot explain, does not make it a miracle. A magician often does things that I can’t explain, but that doesn’t make it a miracle. It just means I can’t explain how that trick was done at this time.

    What “miracles” did you see? Can you eleborate a little more? Please show me a miracle, any miracle. And I guarantee that eventually we’ll come to some rational and logical explanation.

    Any claim of a miracle is either -
    1) An outright lie
    2) An exaggeration of the truth, or
    3) An event you can’t readily explain, but will be solved at some point in time.

    Any claim of a miracle must be fully scrutized and evualated.

  33. on 29 Apr 2012 at 5:28 pm 33.John said …

    Miracle –
    A surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is considered to be divine.
    A highly improbable or extraordinary event, development, or accomplishment.

    Big Bang,
    life
    Information from non-information
    Consciousness

  34. on 01 Feb 2013 at 5:44 am 34.Billy Butcher said …

    To the person with “their proof of god.” As simply as said: an arguement presented witout any facts shall be dismissed by myself just as quickly without facts.

  35. on 29 Apr 2013 at 8:12 am 35.Billy Butcher said …

    This Xian calls this evidence? He/she needs a dictionary, a psychiatrist, medication, and to stop wasting my time.

  36. on 29 Apr 2013 at 8:08 pm 36.CastBound said …

    Billy,

    Your rejection of evidence does not lessen the validity. Get out of your cult and join the real world. When you can disprove that a God does not exist drop back by. Don’t come back and your time will not be infringed upon.

  37. on 29 Apr 2013 at 10:55 pm 37.alex said …

    “When you can disprove that a God does not exist drop back by..”

    excuse me mister motherfucker. uhmm, this is an atheist site you’re jacking with. when you got some real god shit, come back. else, fuck off.

    just like your friend, martin. youse got a real bad track record of bullshitting, so by default, everything that comes out of your mouth is shit-fowl, ya know? chicken shit?

    now, let’s hear a comeback. oh, lookey here, my fellow xtians. the atheist curses, the atheist smells, the atheist is that. the only alternative is jeezas.

  38. on 30 Apr 2013 at 3:19 am 38.Fluttershy said …

    Your rejection of evidence does not lessen the validity.

    No it does not, rejecting invalid material still renders it invalid.

    If you posted something that really boggled our minds, lets say if some guy in america recorded himself fly like superman or something, then maybe we might start looking at it.

    But posting ‘divine’ sightings such as god in the sky or some solar event is just some people exaggerating, or simply lying outright.

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