Feed on Posts or Comments 23 November 2014

Christianity &Islam &Judaism &Rationals Thomas on 06 Mar 2012 12:03 am

Critical Thinking: The Rational Discussion Flowchart

This is a very interesting little chart:

Critical Thinking: The Rational Discussion Flowchart

In the comments, it would be fun to see if theists and atheists could agree to the rules in this chart and then have a discussion about God.

71 Responses to “Critical Thinking: The Rational Discussion Flowchart”

  1. on 07 Mar 2012 at 3:04 am 1.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Great find. Now if only we can find a flow chart with a step-by-step process to rid people of religious delusion.

  2. on 07 Mar 2012 at 7:03 pm 2.Xenon said …

    Slapnuts went right to “No we cannot gave a discussion”

    That didn’t take long.

  3. on 08 Mar 2012 at 12:07 pm 3.Cleo said …

    Where to start?

    First the chart is the work of an atheist here: http://atheismresource.com/wp-content/uploads/Debate-Flow-Chart1.jpg

    Second, who defines what is and is not evidence? Atheists are notorious for embracing scientism as science

    Third, who decides what is and is not reasonable?

    Fourth, who decides what is and is not a faulty argument?

    Fifth, atheist tend to be masters of personal attack in argumentation and would never follow any guidelines.

  4. on 09 Mar 2012 at 2:11 am 4.Slapnuts McGee said …

    Six…where is proof of god?

  5. on 14 Mar 2012 at 12:00 pm 5.Matthew Chance said …

    Well, Slapnuts McGee, the evidence is all around you. It just depends on how you interpret it. Hope you get your eyes back ; )

  6. on 28 Mar 2012 at 11:15 am 6.winowmak3r said …

    First: Science is not a religion. If you are suggesting that atheists use science the same way a religious person uses their holy book of choice as justification of their beliefs you are ignorant of what science is trying to accomplish and how it goes about trying to accomplish it.

    Secondly:

    What is and is not reasonable. Occam’s razor is a pretty good start. All things being equal, the idea requiring less ‘just because’ logic is often the right one.

    Thirdly: Who decides what is and is not a faulty argument? If your argument contains a logical fallacy it is faulty. This is pretty standard.

    Forth: Atheists are not masters of personal attack and most are subject to the guideline “if there is no scientific evidence for it than it’s not possible”. You are confusing someone who says “I don’t believe in your god” with someone who is persecuting you. There is a difference.

  7. on 28 Mar 2012 at 5:13 pm 7.DPK said …

    But to a typical deluded believer, you saying “I do not believe in your god” IS usually perceived as a personal attack. They are stuck in a framework of dogmatic thinking and cannot comprehend anyone who does not think as they do. That is why they insist that atheism is a religion, or a “worldview” or a “belief system”, when it is in fact, none of those things.
    They have a persecution complex in which anyone who does not allow them to constantly try to impose their own belief system on others is “intolerant”, “disrespectful” or “hateful”.
    It is curious that to most theistic believers, profession a belief in ANY god, even if it directly contradicts or challenges THEIR god, is still preferable to denying all gods. To them, that is the ultimate insult. Christians, for example, tend to be far more tolerant of Muslims, who also deny the christian god and the divinity of Jesus, than they are of atheists of agnostics. I think this is because other religious beliefs at least give them partial validation, which they all seem to desperately crave. Well, maybe not all of them, but certainly the ones here. Think about it, if they were not seeking approval and validation for their primitive superstitious beliefs, why do they waste time on sites like this trying desperately to convince others that they are not crazy and that their beliefs somehow DO make sense?

  8. on 28 Mar 2012 at 6:06 pm 8.AntiCurminator said …

    Winow,

    We can only ask atheist to use your outline. History says they will not.

  9. on 28 Mar 2012 at 8:17 pm 9.Godless Monkey said …

    Well said, DPK, @7. That is exactly how certain members of my family reacted, and still react, when I finally had the guts 10 years ago to come out of the closet as an atheist. My non-belief threatens them. And my grandmother actually said to me, and I’ll never forget it, “Dear girl, what a shame that you read so much. Jesus could have really used you.”

  10. on 28 Mar 2012 at 10:03 pm 10.DPK said …

    I was constantly told growing up that there were “things you dare not think about”.
    WTF? Why did god give me a brain if he didn’t want me to think about things, and how weak is his fragile existence if belief in it is too weak to stand up to even the slightest doubt?

    OTOH, if you think about what you would do if you wanted to control and manipulate people… wouldn’t high on your list be “don’t ever doubt”.

  11. on 29 Mar 2012 at 1:56 am 11.AntiCurminator said …

    Monkey,

    So you claim the educated, intelligent, elite members of society would be atheist?

    I read a tremendous amount. What would you recommend? Maybe you could convert me. I have already read the last 3 Dawkins works so you can eliminate those from the list.

  12. on 29 Mar 2012 at 2:52 am 12.DPK said …

    11 Anti… Just a suggestion. If you want to be converted to atheism, you really can’t beat the holy bible. That’s what really cemented it for me.

  13. on 29 Mar 2012 at 4:22 pm 13.Godless Monkey said …

    Anti, so typical, as if atheism didn’t exist before Dawkins. I hadn’t even heard of Dawkins when, at 15, I did what most xtians who eventually become atheists do — I actually read the whole bible, as DPK did. I set out to read it in earnest, looking for answers to things that didn’t make sense to me, and what I discovered was, #1, horrific, and #2, incomprehensible. From there I set out to discover the true origins of the universe, man, et cetera, and have been on that journey ever since. And to your question — I don’t “claim” anything. That’s what you do in reference to your imaginary warden. If the intelligent, educated masses still choose to believe in magic then I will suggest that their education has failed them in this specific area — for a variety of reasons.

  14. on 29 Mar 2012 at 5:24 pm 14.Lou (DFW) said …

    13.Godless Monkey said …

    “Anti, so typical, as if atheism didn’t exist before Dawkins.”

    Atheism existed before theism – it’s the natural born state of all humans.

  15. on 29 Mar 2012 at 6:11 pm 15.Godless Monkey said …

    @Lou — True, yes. And such is the indoctrination so successful that the brainwashed cannot see that they have been brainwashed.

  16. on 29 Mar 2012 at 6:51 pm 16.AntiCurminator said …

    Monkey,

    Oh, you want to go further back? Anything by Flew, Lewis or Rice?

    Sorry, I have read the Bible numerous times. So have billions who never became an atheist. Please, show us the evidence that God does not exist. Maybe it is because you think God is mean and doesn’t think like one of the well educated elitist who know better than God how the world should operate.

  17. on 29 Mar 2012 at 6:53 pm 17.AntiCurminator said …

    PS

    Monkey good for you. You have the lingo down.

  18. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:05 pm 18.Godless Monkey said …

    Anti, your having read the bible “numerous” times, and your failure to recognize it for what it is once again speaks to my comment @15. BTW, I don’t ascribe human emotions or attributes like being “mean” to imaginary beings–that is you and your ilk’s forte. It really is quite telling, though, how you equate having an education to being an elitist? Yes, unfortunately there are some very well educated “elitists” out there advocating for intelligent design and other bizarre things, and I’m sure you’ve read them all. I bet you have oodles of apologetic authors just cramming up your bookcase. Oh, and P.S. — that “lingo” you refer to is defined as sanity.

  19. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:37 pm 19.Lou (DFW) said …

    16.AntiCurminator said …

    “Sorry, I have read the Bible numerous times. So have billions who never became an atheist.”

    Humans are born atheist. Reading the bible and listening to child-molesting priests is how they become theists.

    “Please, show us the evidence that God does not exist.”

    Oh no, here we go again. Whenever they run out of excuses as to why theists NEVER, EVER can provide evidence for their imaginary god, they ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, reply with that. And that is when you know they are defeated.

    AntiCurminator, because you can’t provide any evidence for your imaginary god, then take a shot at providing evidence that the invisible purple gnome who lives in my dishwasher doesn’t exist. Go ahead – I dare you, I double dare you. My gnome is more powerful than your god is on any day. And he does the dishes, too.

  20. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:46 pm 20.AntiCurminator said …

    Oh Monkey education does not make one an elitist. One believing they are no longer a student makes one an elitist.

    A student, which I continue to be Monkey. However, you have yet to provide any great insight into how the Bible turns one into an atheist. Please, since you have no indoctrination, you are a freethinker, completely devoid of any outside influence, enlighten me Monkey.

    I hope you have something better than I was born an atheist. Yes, all babies are born Libertarians as well.

  21. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:50 pm 21.Lou (DFW) said …

    11.AntiCurminator said …

    “So you claim the educated, intelligent, elite members of society would be atheist?

    I read a tremendous amount. What would you recommend? Maybe you could convert me.”

    People are not “converted” to “atheism” anymore than children are “converted” to no longer believing in Santa Claus. It’s simply a matter of understanding what is reality and what is fantasy. But some people are incapable of taking the emotional and intellectual leap required to give-up on a fantasy that (irrationally) explains the universe and promises eternal life. It’s similar to how some children won’t let go of Santa Claus, fearing that they won’t get any presents on xmas morning.

  22. on 29 Mar 2012 at 8:51 pm 22.Lou (DFW) said …

    20.AntiCurminator said …

    “A student, which I continue to be Monkey.”

    No, but obviously another Hor sock-puppet.

  23. on 29 Mar 2012 at 10:00 pm 23.Godless Monkey said …

    Anti, if your powers of comprehension, while reading the bible, are so tainted by your indoctrination, fear and perhaps just stupidity, then no one can help you. I am not your teacher. Do your own homework. I am not on a mission to make you a rational being; that is on you. And we can see how well that is going. You are exhausting. If being shackled to ignorance keeps you feeling safe and secure, so be it. Anyway, we all know that there is absolutely nothing that would convince you that you have been bamboozled as you just “know” that the supernatural exists. Stay chained as thinking for yourself might just make your head explode. You do seem a bit, shall we say, unhinged.

  24. on 29 Mar 2012 at 10:33 pm 24.Godless Monkey said …

    Lou, if by some miracle I actually prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that your purple gnome does, in fact, exist…can I borrow him once or twice a week? Does he only wash dishes? How about cleaning toilets, laundry, yard work? I’d even pay him a fair wage, unlike those poor slaves of Israel who had to work and get raped for free.

  25. on 29 Mar 2012 at 11:02 pm 25.alex said …

    theists, repeat, sincerely after me:
    DEATH IS FINAL! DEATH IS FINAL! DEATH IS FINAL!

    repeat repeatedly. if you can’t make yourself believe this, i’m pleading you, please keep your religion to yourself and don’t even discuss religion, in any context, with anyone. if you do, i promise to do the same and not discuss atheism with anybody. fair?

  26. on 29 Mar 2012 at 11:25 pm 26.AntiCurminator said …

    Monkey,

    It’s OK. Atheist like to view their small populace as more aware, more intelligent, more elite than the theist which is why they go the utterances like stupidity, indoctrinated (?) and fear (funny). I’m not sure what I am supposing to fear, but moving on. I thought you might have a work by a great author, some bit of science disproving a deity or maybe you had developed a new algorithm that had eliminated God.

    You see monkey, we who have all these failings you purport need more than your avowal.

    You are young; if wisdom prevails in your life you may yet see the light. The multiple billions of stupid, indoctrinated and fearful theist could possibly be much more aware than you little sect of deniers. The fact you don’t like a Holy Book, your parent or some religious guys down the street does not in eliminate the deity.

    Good luck to you. The good news is you have alex as part of your group :).

  27. on 29 Mar 2012 at 11:59 pm 27.Godless Monkey said …

    Anti, obviously you aren’t one of the well educated elitists you so loath as your writing skills could be trumped by any smart 8th grader. Shop somewhere other than a christian book store and pick up a tome on grammar, usage, and most importantly, comprehension. You totally lack the capacity to comprehend, I’m guessing, most anything. Keep lying to yourself about the millions of rational, sane people there are in the world if it makes you feel better about living in the grave of delusion you are in, and wow, you are buried there so deep. What’s the old adage…if three people believe something crazy they’re called insane. If millions believe that same “something crazy” it’s called a religion. Stay chained, my friend.

  28. on 30 Mar 2012 at 12:06 am 28.alex said …

    “….I’m not sure what I am supposing to fear….”

    reality, moron, reality. why does your god need defending? why can’t you just be your smug self and let your god take care of business? coz, you know deep in your heart, that many theists are homos, wife beaters, racists, misogynists, and molesters. you know that god doesn’t really exist, but you keep trolling this blog, baiting other theists with your pseudo-persecuted pleadings, into confirming your fellowship. at the same, you get the bonus of antagonizing people.

    asshole.

  29. on 30 Mar 2012 at 1:33 am 29.40 year Atheist said …

    Atheists not only have no songs, they have no paragons, no moral authorities, no grounded philosopher, and no grounded philosophy. And it is on this that the major players base their arrogant pose of superiority. Like Skepticism, Atheism is merely a rejection, and nothing more. It is an attack on logic and knowledge which is discomfiting, especially to the young and immature. Neither Skepticism nor Atheism has a positive contribution to make; both merely say, in effect, “I reject”. And neither produces any reason for rejection, other than “I don’t accept” what you say, or maybe “your evidence doesn’t satisfy my needs”.

    When pinned down with demands for actual reasons for their belief system, it is typical for an Atheist to resort to circularity or to embedded Materialism rather than grounded logic, assuming that s/he remain engaged to that degree rather than to begin other types of attacks to avoid direct logical analysis. Some will merely sit on their rejection, with no attempt to justify it with logic or data. Others default to Scientism or anti-ecclesiasticism. Still others develop fanciful philosophies which fall immediately under the scrutiny of logical processing. But there is never any decisive material evidence nor grounded logic for supporting their beliefs. Denial is all they have.

    Certainly there are influential Atheists who convince young people that science answers all questions: Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, possibly Richard Feynman, probably legions of professors who are Scientistically motivated, and philosophically challenged. Feynman, for all his massive brilliance, berated philosophy in general, which he didn’t even try to understand, and he totally misunderstood Cargo Cults. The works of Dawkins pale beside the brilliance of Feynman. Dawkins’ brief forays into philosophy have been publically panned by actual students of philosophy. Christopher Hitchens blamed all evil in the world on religion in his book subtitled, Religion Poisons Everything”, which he did by the illicit logical gerrymandering of all Atheist atrocities into the category of religion. Daniel Dennett tried to redefine agency reductively in order to fit it into the ideology of Materialism. Sam Harris thinks science can define morals. Massimo Pigliucci claimed that life has no essence unless it is DNA. Atheist absurdities might be acceptable to youngsters, but even many other Atheists balk at much of the Atheist philosophy being produced. Agreement is hard to find.

    Interestingly, the Atheist community seems to attack itself with the same verve as it attacks those outsiders who do not think like them. The simple idea of being nice, being civil when discussing issues with each other, much less outsiders, has drawn vicious condemnations from both sides of the Atheist divide. The issue of feminism vs. the crudities of male Atheists on Atheist discussion boards is another fight producing venom and division. It is common to find an Atheist declaring “I’m not like those Atheists! Atheists have only one thing in common: rejection of the existence of a deity.” Not so. All Atheists have several things in common.

    All Atheists have this in common: Atheism has no ethic attached to it. It has no philosophy attached to it. Atheism is license to claim freedom from all restraint, precisely because it has no morality or philosophy or logic attached to it. Hence: Free Thinking. When I asked Pigliucci how he avoided circular or infinite regressions in his “analysis of ideas”, our conversation stopped: he would not post my question. There are only three paths involved in validation of premises: (1)grounding in absolute principles; (2)infinite regression; (3)circularity. Free Thinking is not bounded by any absolute grounding. Admitting to absolutes is the beginning of the end for Atheist philosophy. So absolutes are denied, categorically, (and absolutely). Atheism absolutely requires this. So what is left is circularity and infinite regress

  30. on 30 Mar 2012 at 1:51 am 30.Godless Monkey said …

    Well, AntiCurminator, one of your seemingly “well educated elitists,” 40 Year Atheist, has shown up to dribble bullshit all over the place. Don’t slip in the slobber or you might break a leg…wait, can’t you just pray that it will heal, and it will?That first sentence alone told me all I needed to know about this fool. Hum, I didn’t know that the lack of belief in the supernatural required an anthem? Well then, here goes: How about something like this, sung to the tune of Radiohead’s “Creep.” Ahem, clearing throat, “Well I am sane, I’m not deluded…what the hell am I doing here, I don’t belong here…” Among all the looney theists, that is.

  31. on 30 Mar 2012 at 1:57 am 31.Lou (DFW) said …

    29.40 year Atheist said …

    “Certainly there are influential Atheists who convince young people that science answers all questions: Carl Sagan, Richard Dawkins, possibly Richard Feynman, probably legions of professors who are Scientistically motivated, and philosophically challenged.”

    Regardless of whether or not that’s truth, there is one thing that is true – religion doesn’t have ANY answers, except for one – an imaginary sky daddy who is the explanation for everything unknown. Those scientists and thousands more like them have provide many, many answers for all those things that were once unknown.

  32. on 30 Mar 2012 at 3:33 am 32.Lou (DFW) said …

    29.40 year Atheist said …

    “All Atheists have this in common: Atheism has no ethic attached to it. It has no philosophy attached to it. Atheism is license to claim freedom from all restraint, precisely because it has no morality or philosophy or logic attached to it.”

    All aleprechaunists have this in common: Aleprechaunism has no ethic attached to it. It has no philosophy attached to it. Aleprechaunism is license to claim freedom from all restraint, precisely because it has no morality or philosophy or logic attached to it.

    So there!

  33. on 30 Mar 2012 at 3:37 am 33.Lou (DFW) said …

    29.40 year Atheist said …

    “Like Skepticism, Atheism (with a capital A, no less) is merely a rejection, and nothing more.”

    Wait, it’s also “…an attack on logic and knowledge…”

    And it’s also a “belief system.”

    And I thought that “[a]theism is merely a rejection, and nothing more.”

    Silly me!

  34. on 30 Mar 2012 at 6:14 am 34.Severin said …

    29 40 yA
    “Like Skepticism, Atheism is merely a rejection, and nothing more.”

    Thank you!
    One theist to call things the right names!
    I was sick and tired of theist’s accusations that atheism was a religion.

  35. on 30 Mar 2012 at 6:18 am 35.Severin said …

    40 yA
    “When pinned down with demands for actual reasons for their belief system, it is typical for an Atheist to resort to circularity …”

    Now what? Is atheism only rejection or “belief system”?
    You don’t seem to be consistent.

    I didn’t actually expect it.

  36. on 30 Mar 2012 at 1:11 pm 36.ReligionIsStupid said …

    Severin, like anyone should give a shit about something culled from an old blog, that’s already been torn apart, and posted by someone who doesn’t have the moral wherewithal to defend his comments?

  37. on 30 Mar 2012 at 2:46 pm 37.Lou (DFW) said …

    35.Severin said …

    40 yA
    “When pinned down with demands for actual reasons for their belief system, it is typical for an Atheist to resort to circularity …”

    “Now what? Is atheism only rejection or “belief system”?
    You don’t seem to be consistent.”

    Actually, he is. He consistently posts illogical, irrational, dishonest comments.

  38. on 30 Mar 2012 at 6:02 pm 38.DPK said …

    32.Lou (DFW)
    Lou has hit it on the head. Stan once again starts with an either false or, in this case meaningless premise, and then proceeds to draw irrational conclusions. “Atheism has no ethic attached to it. It has no philosophy attached to it. Atheism is license to claim freedom from all restraint, precisely because it has no morality or philosophy or logic attached to it.”

    Why should it? People who do not live in green houses also have no ethic or philosophy attached to not living in a green house. People who do not like coffee have no ethic, philosophy or morality associated with not liking coffee.
    Now Stan begins his decent into irrationality by then falsely assuming that the only source for ethics, morality, or philosophy must be a belief in gods. But, what happens when we look at this idea? We see clearly, that there are people who do not believe in gods who are both moral and amoral in their behavior. Hmmm, do we see this in theists as well? YES. Well, that would show that belief in magical gods, or lack thereof, is not the source of morality or ethics. Case closed.

    Now, let’s take a look at Lou’s dishwasher gnome from a theistic worldview:
    First, we all know that nothing happens without a cause. Paintings don’t paint themselves, they require a painter. Likewise, dishes don’t wash themselves, they require an intelligent force to wash them. The idea that a box made of metal and plastic could somehow, all by itself, wash a bunch of dishes is ridiculous. The odds of the molecules inside a dishwasher randomly arranging themselves into a pattern that could wash a dish is unimaginably small. The idea that it could do it over and over and over is absurd.
    Plus, the idea of dishes washing themselves is not falsifiable and not observable, so it is not science. What happens when you open the dishwasher to observe this “process”? Without fail… nothing is happening! But, depending on when you open the door, you CAN observe the dishes in various stages of being washed. This proves clearly that there is a magical, intelligent force that exists outside of space and time that washes the dishes and refuses to be observed or tested. It is outside the reach of science, but clearly is undeniable.
    There MUST be an intelligent force inside the dishwasher that is washing the dishes. That force is the dishwasher gnome. I challenge anyone here to provide any proof that the dishwasher gnome does not exist. Go ahead, I’m waiting. If you think that dishwasher gnomes are imaginary, then you are making a positive claim and the burden of proof is on you to show they do not exist.
    Furthermore, there is no moral, ethical, or philosophical grounding associated with disbelief in dishwasher gnomes. Therefore, it is logical to assume that those who disbelieve in dishwasher gnomes not only have no songs written for them they also have “no paragons, no moral authorities, no grounded philosopher, and no grounded philosophy. And it is on this that the major players base their arrogant pose of superiority.”

  39. on 30 Mar 2012 at 6:47 pm 39.Xenon said …

    “So absolutes are denied, categorically, (and absolutely). Atheism absolutely requires this. So what is left is circularity and infinite regress”

    Absolutely! Which is how the world has ended up with horrid destructive regimes like we have seen in the USSR, China, Albania and Cambodia. Absolute power correct absolutely.

    I disagree atheists have no common philosophy. The philosophy they strive for is Liberalism. This may not technically be a philosophy but one that definitely drives their common anger, hatred and unhappiness. All the traits we find in any militant liberal. Maybe that is just an American occurrence.

  40. on 30 Mar 2012 at 6:51 pm 40.Xenon said …

    “Interestingly, the Atheist community seems to attack itself with the same verve as it attacks those outsiders who do not think like them.”

    When one is so good at something, they tend to practice it at every convenience.

  41. on 30 Mar 2012 at 7:08 pm 41.DPK said …

    “I disagree atheists have no common philosophy. The philosophy they strive for is Liberalism.”

    Once again add this to the long list of things you claim to know abut which you are 100% wrong.
    Actually, you would be surprised to know that my personal political views are far closer aligned to conservatism than liberalism. I am not in favor of big government. I do not think the government should legislate morality or social issues through the tax code. I do not think the US should be the world’s police force. I am not in favor of affirmative action. While I believe a woman’s right to choose is a personal matter that should not be interfered with by the government, I am not “in favor of” abortion… especially not as a method of birth control. I believe in fiscal responsibility, a balanced budget, and term limits for elected officials. I could go on and on… but, let me open the door once more and let the cold hard facts wash over you Mr. Xenon…. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with the existence of your imaginary, magical god.
    Even if all the bullshit you espouse about atheists ALL being Liberal, angry, hateful, amoral, unhappy, uncharitable misers groveling in their own filth and hatching evil plans to rid the world of religion so that Satan and his minions could wreak their havoc and anarchy across the globe…. even if ALL THAT unadulterated BULLSHIT was true… that would STILL not mean that ANY of the claims you make about supernatural beings, eternal beings, or a magical, benevolent god who listens to your thoughts and grants your wishes are in ANY way, shape or form, actually true.

    Now, are you going to provide proof that dishwasher gnomes do not exist, or do I assume you cede the point and we can count you as a true believer in gnomes?

  42. on 30 Mar 2012 at 7:23 pm 42.Xenon said …

    “my personal political views are far closer aligned to conservatism”

    The exception that only proves the rule, seem more moderate to me. If a betting man, I bet you voted Obama which makes you no conservative. It makes you duped.

    “Now, are you going to provide proof that dishwasher gnomes do not exist,”

    Well, no DPK. I don’t care and I will not be rallying in Washington against the soapy gnome movement or starting a blog.

    See, that is how adults who REALLY don’t believe in something respond.

    You follow your gnome. A better choice than the prez you voted in office.

  43. on 30 Mar 2012 at 7:42 pm 43.DPK said …

    Actually, since we are doing so well in showing how wrong you are about so many things…. I wanted to vote for McCain in the last election… and the only reason I didn’t was the thought of the total nut job Palin being a heartbeat away from the big chair. I’m no Obama fan, but I did vote for him solely to keep the crazy bitch out of Washington. Otherwise……

    Glad you admit you can’t disprove the dishwasher gnome. Since you don’t seem to care about my crazy delusions, I’ll assume you have no problem if we put “In the Soapy Gnome We Trust” on all your currency and make kids learn about him in science class, right? We also will be campaigning to ban the sale of hand dish-washing detergent in this country because it is clearly offensive to our personal beliefs. You’re cool with that right?

    And when I do start a blog in support of the soapy gnome movement, I assume you aren’t going to show up there and try to convince everyone we’re wrong… like you do here, right?

    You are such a bundle of contradictions.

  44. on 30 Mar 2012 at 7:57 pm 44.Severin said …

    39 Xenon
    „Which is how the world has ended up with horrid destructive regimes like we have seen in the USSR, China, Albania and Cambodia.“
    We have also ended up with horrid destructive regimes in Germany, South African republic, Chile, Haiti, Central African Empire, Uganda…
    The world has also ended up with horrid destructive regimes in the USA (slavery), in the UK and France (exploiting colonies), …

  45. on 30 Mar 2012 at 8:05 pm 45.Severin said …

    39 Xenon
    “…This may not technically be a philosophy but one that definitely drives their common anger, hatred and unhappiness.”

    You are obsessed with your irrational hate to atheists so much that you don’t know what you are talking about.

    I have no anger, I do not hate anyone, and I am a very happy individual.
    I do not personally know ANY atheist who fits your description.

    Are lies and casting imputations on people the best you know?.
    How typical and how sad!

  46. on 30 Mar 2012 at 8:26 pm 46.DPK said …

    “Are lies and casting imputations on people the best you know?.
    How typical and how sad!”

    It is the only way that they can feel validated. You must demonize those that do not agree with your absurd religious beliefs, or admit that it is possible for normal, happy, productive and intelligent people to enjoy meaningful lives with the need of imaginary god legends and other superstitious nonsense. For them to do otherwise means they have to admit they don’t have all the answers and they do not in fact “know” the things they claim to “know.”
    He will also not answer you about all the “horrid, destructive” RELIGIOUS regimes the world has been subjected to, or all the people who have been murdered, tortured, and persecuted in the name of imaginary gods through out history. THOSE numbers dwarf anything any atheistic or agnostic mad-man has done. But they simple ignore that fact, because once again, all they seek is validation, and they will do, say, or think anything to get it, even if it is totally illogical or demonstrably false. They are addicted to a drug, and when you are addicted, reason goes out the window. All that matters is maintaining your high.

  47. on 30 Mar 2012 at 8:39 pm 47.Xenon said …

    “you admit you can’t disprove the dishwasher gnome.”

    Well I can, so tell you what. Lou, provide name, phone, address, a credit card to allow me to book flight and hotel reservations and I will personally come and prove the gnome does not exist.

    Then, DPK can prove to me a God does not exist. How does that work for you DPK?

    DPK, I recognized you as an Obama supporter. You are an Atheist, goes with the territory. You were more concerned about a woman who MIGHT be POTUS over what you put in as a POTUS. The MIGHT, a woman who actually ran a state as gov and very well. You bought into the DNC talking points.

    Well done. And I should listen to you about God?

  48. on 30 Mar 2012 at 8:42 pm 48.Xenon said …

    “We also will be campaigning to ban the sale of hand dish-washing detergent in this country because it is clearly offensive to our personal beliefs. You’re cool with that right?”

    Cool with it? I look forward to it! Please post the website, videos and other information so I can follow the movement. Awesome!

  49. on 30 Mar 2012 at 9:04 pm 49.alex said …

    “Well I can, so tell you what. Lou, provide name, phone, address, a credit card to allow me to book flight and hotel reservations and I will personally come and prove the gnome does not exist.”

    idiotic, but predictable. Obama? Diversionary! Who cares? Look the atheist is blacky, and he voted the blacky potus. who gives a fuck. Focus, dimwit. Where is your god?

    btw. i do have anger and this uncontrollable tick when I converse with idiots. but, i’m sure the other atheists in here are more civilized.

  50. on 30 Mar 2012 at 9:14 pm 50.Lou (DFW) said …

    47.Xenon said …

    “Well I can, so tell you what. Lou, provide name, phone, address, a credit card to allow me to book flight and hotel reservations and I will personally come and prove the gnome does not exist.”

    I prayed about this to the Gnome. Sorry, but the Gnome has forbidden me to do that.

    “DPK, I recognized you as an Obama supporter.”

    What you “recognized” and what he wrote are two different things. Hor, you are still a pathological liar. You lie even when people can read what he actually wrote.

    “You are an Atheist, goes with the territory.”

    So, are you saying that whoever voted for Obama is an atheist?

    “You were more concerned about a woman who MIGHT be POTUS over what you put in as a POTUS. The MIGHT, a woman who actually ran a state as gov and very well.”

    I was going to vote for McCain, too. But not only didn’t I because of why DPK didn’t, but in choosing Palin, McCain demonstrated that he does not have the judgement to be POTUS.

  51. on 30 Mar 2012 at 9:16 pm 51.Lou (DFW) said …

    41.DPK said …

    “I could go on and on… but, let me open the door once more and let the cold hard facts wash over you Mr. Xenon…. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with the existence of your imaginary, magical god.”

    Notice how, just like they NEVER, EVER provide evidence of their imaginary god, they NEVER, EVER address that point – “NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with the existence of your imaginary, magical god.”

  52. on 30 Mar 2012 at 9:22 pm 52.Lou (DFW) said …

    49.alex said …

    “Well I can, so tell you what. Lou, provide name, phone, address, a credit card to allow me to book flight and hotel reservations and I will personally come and prove the gnome does not exist.”

    “idiotic, but predictable.”

    Of course it (and Xenon) is. He knew the Gnome wouldn’t allow it. That’s why is was so eager to offer a proposition that he can’t loose.

    But let’s make another essentially identical proposition – Xenon, prove that leprechauns don’t exist. Who wants to bet on whether or not he rejects it?

  53. on 30 Mar 2012 at 10:52 pm 53.AntiCurminator said …

    “McCain demonstrated that he does not have the judgement to be POTUS.”

    I have saved this statement but left out the “e” in judgment. I teach on a part-time basis and I just had to show the actual words of a Libby. Let’s do a rough comparison.

    Now McCain was a leader of men in war, heroically so in Vietnam. He has been a leader in every conceivable scenario.

    Obama was a leader of – hold on to your seats – a classroom. Yes, a classroom and in the Atheist mindset this qualifies him to be the President over McCain. Not to mention give him a dictatorship for 2 years.

    Why did they vote Obama? They got a tingle up their leg when he spoke; they were emotional, not analytical.

    This demonstrates why Atheists worship and pray to gnomes.

  54. on 30 Mar 2012 at 11:31 pm 54.DPK said …

    He was a leader in many situations, but decided to sell out when it came to picking a vp candidate and decided it was more important to pander to the tea party looneys than act like a real leader and say hell no!
    For the record, I have no problem with a woman being pouts, just not a simple minded religious nut job like Sarah Palin.
    As for being an Obama supporter, well, I voted for Chris Christie and would vote for him for prez in a minute, but not if he was running with Christine O’donnell or Ricky the goofball Perry as vp. You can’t select a candidate without looking at his running mate as well and just hope nothing bad happens. Obama Biden was only the least bad of the 2 choices.
    Now, for the love of Mike, will you shut up about Obama and other pointless diversions and prove that either dishwasher gnomes don’t exist, or your imaginary murderous, manical warrior god does. You make a lot of talk for someone who offers no proof of anything at all!

  55. on 30 Mar 2012 at 11:44 pm 55.Al said …

    This should go viral

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyshop/6196456311/sizes/o/in/photostream/

  56. on 31 Mar 2012 at 5:50 am 56.Lou (DFW) said …

    53.AntiCurminator said …

    “I have saved this statement but left out the “e” in judgment.”

    Your point being what about my use of “judgement” rather than “judgment?”

    “I teach on a part-time basis and I just had to show the actual words of a Libby.”

    Being a part-time teacher qualifies you in what way to do or judge anything other than teaching part-time?

    “Let’s do a rough comparison.”

    OK

    Now McCain was a leader of men in war, heroically so in Vietnam.”

    Who is “Now McCain?”

    “He has been a leader in every conceivable scenario.”

    Except that he wasn’t, especially not “in every conceivable scenario.”

    “Obama was a leader of – hold on to your seats – a classroom. Yes, a classroom and in the Atheist [sic] mindset this qualifies him to be the President over McCain.”

    Except that it doesn’t, and nobody here but you claimed any such thing.

    McCain and Obama were US senators at the time of their candidacy.

    McCain a.k.a. “Ace McCain” crashed three airplanes (lying about at least one, if not two of them) and was shot down once. In today’s Navy, McCain would never be given the chance to crash three airplanes, not even if his father and grandfather were admirals. Obama never crashed a plane and was never shot down. Good thing too, because neither his father or grandfather were admirals.

    “Not to mention give him a dictatorship for 2 years.”

    Please explain how he would have “a dictatorship for [two] years.”

    “Why did they vote Obama? They got a tingle up their leg when he spoke; they were emotional, not analytical.”

    There goes Hor lying about atheists again. You simply cannot help yourself, can you?

    “This demonstrates why Atheists [sic] worship and pray to gnomes.”

    There goes Hor lying about atheists again. You simply cannot help yourself, can you?

  57. on 31 Mar 2012 at 5:58 am 57.Lou (DFW) said …

    56.Lou (DFW) said …

    “Good thing too, because neither his father or grandfather were admirals.”

    Oh no, let’s see if Hor goes after me for using or instead of nor.

  58. on 31 Mar 2012 at 6:01 am 58.Lou (DFW) said …

    54.DPK said …

    “Now, for the love of Mike, will you shut up about Obama and other pointless diversions and prove that either dishwasher gnomes don’t exist, or your imaginary murderous, manical warrior god does.”

    He can’t do that anymore than he can respond to:

    41.DPK said …

    “I could go on and on… but, let me open the door once more and let the cold hard facts wash over you Mr. Xenon…. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with the existence of your imaginary, magical god.”

  59. on 31 Mar 2012 at 1:30 pm 59.ReligionIsStupid said …

    “I could go on and on… but, let me open the door once more and let the cold hard facts wash over you Mr. Xenon…. NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with the existence of your imaginary, magical god.”

    Which goes hand-in-hand with the fact that he hasn’t provided the direct or indirect evidence of this so-called god. Why the questions on who answers prayers go unanswered. Why he continuously tries to bring the topic back to his diversionary “questions”, creates inflammatory strawmen to bait people into changing the subject and so-on. Classic trolling.

  60. on 31 Mar 2012 at 2:49 pm 60.Al said …

    Actually gauging the competency of an individual based on political expediency is a great methodology for determining an individuals competency in other areas.

    Consider a man who is duped so easily to vote for a man as POTUS who does not even qualify to run a WAL-MART. Further, many will vote for this man again.

    Now, would a clear thinking individual consider their assessment regarding the existence of God? Of course not, they have proven to be unreliable, gullible and obviously not a clear thinker.

  61. on 31 Mar 2012 at 2:57 pm 61.alex said …

    “Actually gauging the competency of an individual based on political expediency is a great methodology for determining an individuals competency in other areas.”

    baseless. you a subject matter expert? you got a link to appeal to an authority?

    “Consider a man who is duped so easily to vote for a man as POTUS who does not even qualify to run a WAL-MART.”

    ..more bullshit, baseless statements. just like “god is great”. anybody can talk shit.

    just like the rest of the idiot theists in here, talking all that shit to divert attention from their lack of proof.

    even if all the rest of the atheists are complete morons, what does it got to do with your nonexistent god?

    …stand by for more diversions..

  62. on 31 Mar 2012 at 9:03 pm 62.Lou (DFW) said …

    60.Al said …

    “Consider a man who is duped so easily to vote for a man as POTUS who does not even qualify to run a WAL-MART.”

    What are Ace McCain’s qualifications to “run a WAL-MART?”

  63. on 01 Apr 2012 at 5:04 pm 63.ReligionIsStupid said …

    More diversions, why engage Hor in this conversation at all?

    It’s apparent that he has no evidence to support his delusion. That’s the reason he keeps taking you off in tangents and launching into his personal attacks. It’s a diversion to avoid facing the reality that all gods, including his favorite that of the bronze age goat herders, are imaginary.

  64. on 01 Apr 2012 at 5:31 pm 64.Lou (DFW) said …

    63.ReligionIsStupid said …

    “More diversions…”

    Yes, that’s all he has.

    “…why engage Hor in this conversation at all?”

    To demonstrate that even his diversions, usually attacks on atheists, are incorrect, illogical, and dishonest.

  65. on 01 Apr 2012 at 7:28 pm 65.Lou said …

    Religion is Stupid,

    Why did you change your name from Mr Q?

  66. on 01 Apr 2012 at 7:37 pm 66.ReligionIsStupid said …

    To demonstrate that even his diversions, usually attacks on atheists, are incorrect, illogical, and dishonest.
    Just like post 64 – good call Lou (DFW).

  67. on 01 Apr 2012 at 8:32 pm 67.ReligionIsStupid said …

    65.Lou said …

    Religion is Stupid,

    Why did you change your name from Mr Q?

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog/?p=2220#comment-34851

    47.Burebista said …

    Religion is stupid,

    Did you get tired of being Mr Q?

    Poor Hor, Lou, Burebista, etc, busted again for being a sock-puppet. There’s almost no-one arguing on this blog for sky-daddy when we take away your sock puppets.

    Now, Hor. How about you present some evidence for this belief of yours that there is magic-man in the sky that loves you? Dude, how can a grow-up believe something that stupid?

  68. on 02 Apr 2012 at 1:00 am 68.Lou said …

    Religion is Stupid,

    So now two people have called you out. So why did you change your name? Trying to hide you identity or continue your sock puppetry?

    Now that we understand your standard for being a sock puppet we can do a simple analysis. The following refer all refer other posters as a Hor.

    DPK
    Religion is Stupid
    Lou (DPK)
    Mr Q
    alex

    Therefore all of the above are really Mr Q.

    Poor Mr Q. Busted.

  69. on 02 Apr 2012 at 1:07 am 69.Lou said …

    “Dude, how can a grow(n)-up believe something that stupid?”

    Don’t know dude aka Mr Q, are you a grown up? Please tell us.

  70. on 02 Apr 2012 at 2:43 am 70.Lou (DFW) said …

    68.Lou said …

    “Religion is Stupid,

    So now two people have called you out.”

    No, one person did. Posting under more than one name doesn’t make one more than one person. It makes one a sock-puppet.

    Hor has been busted several times for obvious sock-puppeting. And I’ve busted him several times for a common grammatical error that he makes as several different sock-puppets.

    But there’s really only one thing that’s relevant for you and all of Hor’s sock-puppets – none of you ever present any evidence for your imaginary god. All you ever present is diversions such as this one.

  71. on 02 Apr 2012 at 4:21 am 71.ReligionIsStupid said …

    Ironic, isn’t it? Hor’s response to being busted on something is often to accuse others of the same thing — and he did it again. LOL! Hence, the more Hor tries to pretend he’s not been busted the more he shows his true colors.

    Meanwhile on the subject of evidence for this imaginary storm god that makes women out of ribs and gets fooled by a talking snake, all we get is crickets. Poor Hor, all he has is to try to change the subject and try to make believe that his bronze-age superstitions have some relevancy in the modern age.

    Come on, let’s see it. Make the mean, nasty, atheist go away. Two thousand years and you’ve still got nothing. Go on, prove us wrong. Be the first.

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