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Christianity Admin on 31 Jan 2012 12:31 am

How to go from a devout Christian to an atheist in 5 months

This page describes the step-by-step process of deconversion, from devout Christian to an atheist, in just 5 months:

My journey from fundamentalist Christianity to atheism

It all starts with a question that, upon contemplation, makes no sense. For him the question was:

Why would God create a universe in which He knew, in advance, that at least 90% of the people in it would burn in Hell for all of eternity?

That is a great starting point, and there are many others as well, such as “Why won’t God heal amputees?” You can find a very popular set of 10 questions like this in the following video, viewed by more than six million people:

131 Responses to “How to go from a devout Christian to an atheist in 5 months”

  1. on 31 Jan 2012 at 6:37 am 1.Anonymous said …

    Interesting in this dialog is the recurring theme of information control.

    By actively discouraging independent thought and demonizing conflicting sources of information, cults provide a filtered and slewed view of reality.

    Invariably, the believer is trained to avoid the issue of cognitive dissonance and to turn it around via thought-stopping techniques such as claiming to be persecuted, that their ignoring the conflict is a test of their faith, or that others are not “open minded” where their definition of “open minded” involves a suspension of critical thinking rather than examining all the information.

    It will be interesting to hear from the believers as to their view of what was “wrong” with this individual that he so quickly escaped from the chains of religious mind control.

  2. on 31 Jan 2012 at 6:35 pm 2.Curmudgeon said …

    Five months seems right. Brainwashing against the conscious and common sense is a time consuming exercise. It cannot be done in a short period of time.

  3. on 31 Jan 2012 at 6:55 pm 3.Lou (DFW) said …

    2.Curmudgeon said …

    “Five months seems right. Brainwashing against the conscious and common sense is a time consuming exercise. It cannot be done in a short period of time.”

    Except for xtians.

  4. on 31 Jan 2012 at 10:01 pm 4.Anon. said …

    Is it brainwashing if you’re washing your own brain of the theological garbage that’s been crammed in there for you?

  5. on 01 Feb 2012 at 12:37 am 5.an said …

    Hi if you truly want an answer to these 10 questions check out this link. they probably wont post it because it goes against their agenda and that would be bad for them. http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181&Itemid=69

  6. on 01 Feb 2012 at 12:44 am 6.an said …

    i actually stopped watching shortly after the first question “why doesnt God heal amputees?” this isn’t a true question but a way to bring your thoughts immediatly to the negative. They are saying to think for yourselves but then immediatly dont allow you to do so. the real question is why would God heal an amputee. just because a person has an amputated arm or leg doesnt make them useless. God still sees their heart and their intent on things, God doesnt judge by the way we look. whoever made this video or has asked this question seems to be pretty dark, or cold hearted. why isnt anyone asking why are you making fun of amputees? why do you look down on them as if they arent as usefull as before?

  7. on 01 Feb 2012 at 1:52 am 7.A said …

    an

    A great link that demolishes the arguments here. Well done.

  8. on 01 Feb 2012 at 3:35 am 8.Lou (DFW) said …

    5.an said …

    “Hi if you truly want an answer to these 10 questions check out this link. they probably wont post it because it goes against their agenda and that would be bad for them.”

    Except that “they” don’t moderate this blog despite you juvenile taunts and claims to the contrary.

    http://www.alwaysbeready.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181&Itemid=69

    There you will a perfect example of circular reasoning.

  9. on 01 Feb 2012 at 5:21 am 9.Anonymous said …

    An, and Horatiio posting as A – that’s such a stupid argument it’s hard to know where to begin. So lets start at the end.

    Christians are scary creatures because they don’t believe that it’s possible to treat people with respect unless there is a threat of eternal damnation and punishment or the carrot of reward for good behavior.

    That Christians need the constant threat of someone watching them 24×7 in order to guarantee their good behavior says a lot about the ignorant and uneducated society of goat-herders that they wish to belong to. So, really, this argument is simply a reflection of the low esteem Christians hold for themselves and is a reflection of the values they hold in their society but not of a enlightened or educated society of which Christianity is 2000 years out of date.

    Next we have the utterly stupid comment that god could heal people but chooses not to. Wow, that’s a new one.

    Hey An, did you know that I can fly but chose not to show you that I can? Really, I can fly but if I was to do so it would make you feel inferior, so I chose not to. People would laugh at you for not being able to do the same. See how easy that was to do. You can’t prove me wrong either because I’ll simply make an excuse as to why I’m not going to prove it to you.

    As for making fun of amputees, once again we see the Christian need to throw around false accusations in order to hide the fact that their god doesn’t heal amputees because he’s imaginary.

    It’s that simple – your god doesn’t heal amputees because he exists only in your dreams.

  10. on 01 Feb 2012 at 8:14 pm 10.Anon. said …

    We need some amputees to come on here and represent about if they’d like it or not if God healed them. I’d put my money squarely on “I’d take it!” from every last one of them.

    An, what you put about that might be the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on here, and that’s REALLY saying something.

  11. on 02 Feb 2012 at 12:15 am 11.alex said …

    I suppose it’s possible that all the scientific shit that I know is hogwash. There I said it!

    Now, Christians, repeat after me. It’s possible that all the Jesus shit that I know is hogwash….

  12. on 02 Feb 2012 at 8:37 am 12.Lou (DFW) said …

    11.alex said …

    “I suppose it’s possible that all the scientific shit that I know is hogwash. There I said it!”

    It’s irrelevant to the discussion about the existence of god as to whether or not it is.

  13. on 03 Feb 2012 at 7:02 pm 13.me said …

    “It’s irrelevant to the discussion about the existence of god…”

    you the moderator?

  14. on 03 Feb 2012 at 7:37 pm 14.Curmudgeon said …

    Me, now that if funny. He does seem himself as the high priest.

  15. on 03 Feb 2012 at 7:42 pm 15.Lou (DFW) said …

    13.me said …

    “It’s irrelevant to the discussion about the existence of god…”

    “you the moderator?”

    No, but you obviously confuse moderation with observational comment.

    But if you disagree with me, then please explain to us how alex’s comment “There I said it!” is relevant to the discussion about the existence of god?

  16. on 03 Feb 2012 at 9:14 pm 16.alex said …

    This thread is about “How to go from a devout Christian to an atheist in 5 months” no?

    I was suggesting to Christians that “It’s possible that all the Jesus shit that I know is hogwash..” and
    I prefaced it with commentary and you jump me with your comment? And how is your comment “It’s irrelevant to the discussion about the existence of god…” any more relevant than mine?

  17. on 03 Feb 2012 at 10:59 pm 17.Anonymous said …

    Because, Alex, one of the ways that trolls like Curmudgeon try to derail the conversation is to continuously try to bring up topics that are not relevant to the existence of gods. Their intent is to simply talk over anyone who asks for evidence of proof of the existence of these imaginary spirits that they claim, but dare not try to prove for fear of failure, exist.

    I think Lou is trying to point out to you that Curmudgeon and the other trolls never answer questions, never provide proof, and only like to throw out red herrings and diversions. Hence you are simply inviting another trip down irrelevancy street.

    So the question still remains, where is the proof of this god that people worship? Xtians, for example, sure make a big deal of how important it is for them that belief in a zombie grants them eternal life, yet they seem totally incapable of advancing even one cogent argument as to why anyone should view their pre-scientific fairy-stories as anything other than the superstitious explanations of a primitive people.

  18. on 03 Feb 2012 at 11:13 pm 18.alex said …

    I still believe if a Christian would utter “it’s possible Allah is the true God!”, they might see the light. it’s no different than:

    for($i=0;$i<1000;$i++){
    utter “it’s possible nextGod($i), is the true God”;
    }

    for a thousand gods….they’re all the same.

  19. on 07 Feb 2012 at 11:18 am 19.Anonymous said …

    If you don’t want to believe that God is good and that everything happens for a reason then don’t, but why try to prove that all we believe is false? Does it really make our world a better place? All you are doing is being negative. Let it go, get rid of your fuck God statements and get on to things that actually will improve the world you live in. No one cares what you think about God, believers will believe, and why waste time trying to disprove it. Man, try to discuss things that matter to the nonbelievers. If you don’t believe in god then fine, it’s over. Discuss something else. You think the Bible is false, OK, now be both understand what you believe in. Time to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh. Get the job done and shut the fuck up about the bible. Shit is done, we understand, you hate christians, big deal, join the club. Everyone hates us, but it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to force my beliefs on you so don’t constantly explain why God isn’t real to me. If you don’t want to believe then dont, we don’t need to want you, fuck off. but why can’t you do the same? Let it go! Go and enjoy this wonderful world that was created for us and enjoy you life, not everyone has to believe, but when you do life is a bit greater. By the way, my dad died from cancer but it doesn’t change my view. His insurance money saved my moms life, so everything does happen for a reason. My mom is alive and I get to spend time with her. But anyways good luck you you and have a great day.

  20. on 07 Feb 2012 at 11:21 am 20.Bryan said …

    If you don’t want to believe that God is good and that everything happens for a reason then don’t, but why try to prove that all we believe is false? Does it really make our world a better place? All you are doing is being negative. Let it go, get rid of your fuck God statements and get on to things that actually will improve the world you live in. No one cares what you think about God, believers will believe, and why waste time trying to disprove it. Man, try to discuss things that matter to the nonbelievers. If you don’t believe in god then fine, it’s over. Discuss something else. You think the Bible is false, OK, now be both understand what you believe in. Time to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh. Get the job done and shut the fuck up about the bible. Shit is done, we understand, you hate christians, big deal, join the club. Everyone hates us, but it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to force my beliefs on you so don’t constantly explain why God isn’t real to me. If you don’t want to believe then dont, we don’t need to want you, fuck off. but why can’t you do the same? Let it go! Go and enjoy this wonderful world that was created for us and enjoy you life, not everyone has to believe, but when you do life is a bit greater. By the way, my dad died from cancer but it doesn’t change my view. His insurance money saved my moms life, so everything does happen for a reason. My mom is alive and I get to spend time with her. But anyways good luck you you and have a great day.

  21. on 10 Feb 2012 at 1:50 pm 21.freddies_dead said …

    Anonymous Bryan said …

    If you don’t want to believe that God is good and that everything happens for a reason then don’t, but why try to prove that all we believe is false?

    We’re not trying, it’s already done. As for why, well maybe you should look at the Christian attempts to replace science with myth in the classroom, to replace democracy with theocracy etc…

    Does it really make our world a better place?

    I don’t know but I’d love to find out. I have a feeling that removing all the friction from the the thousands of different religions would make this world a much better place.

    All you are doing is being negative.

    Not true, this is a positive attempt to prevent Christians from forcing their beliefs on people who do not share them.

    Let it go, get rid of your fuck God statements and get on to things that actually will improve the world you live in.

    Let it go, get rid of your “repent and trust in God” statements and get on to things that actually will improve the world you live in.

    No one cares what you think about God, believers will believe, and why waste time trying to disprove it.

    Asked and answered. I’d also suggest that you do seem to care what we think about God, or why bother going to the effort of posting?

    Man, try to discuss things that matter to the nonbelievers.

    You think issues such as religious interference in people’s private lives don’t matter to non-believers?

    If you don’t believe in god then fine, it’s over.

    Bye then.

    Wait, you’re still here…

    Discuss something else.

    Who died and made you God?

    You think the Bible is false, OK, now be both understand what you believe in. Time to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh.

    And here we go with one of the usual canards … atheists only deny God because they love to sin. Bullshit of course.

    Get the job done and shut the fuck up about the bible.

    I ask again, who died and made you God?

    Shit is done, we understand, you hate christians, big deal, join the club.

    I don’t hate Christians. I don’t actually know anyone who does either. I abhor Christianity’s attempts to subjugate everyone to it’s will but then I have the same attitude to every other pisspot religion that thinks it has some divine mandate to rule everyone’s lives.

    Everyone hates us, but it doesn’t matter.

    No they don’t. Put your persecution complex away and put on your big boy pants.

    I’m not going to force my beliefs on you so don’t constantly explain why God isn’t real to me.

    And yet here you are telling us what we should and shouldn’t be doing – according to your belief in the reality of God of course.

    If you don’t want to believe then dont, we don’t need to want you, fuck off. but why can’t you do the same? Let it go!

    Hey, you came to the blog, not the other way around, seems like you should take a bit of your own advice there.

    Go and enjoy this wonderful world that was created for us

    Created? Any evidence for that. And it takes a very special arrogance to believe that this wonderful world was created just for us.

    and enjoy you life, not everyone has to believe, but when you do life is a bit greater.

    There are people who formerly believed as you do but now find life so much more enjoyable after throwing off the shackles of your ridiculous beliefs. Why should I accept your claim that “life is a bit greater” when you eschew rationality for delusion?

    By the way, my dad died from cancer but it doesn’t change my view.

    My condolences on your loss.

    His insurance money saved my moms life, so everything does happen for a reason.

    A happy coincedence.

    My mom is alive and I get to spend time with her.

    Good for you … and her.

    But anyways good luck you you and have a great day.

    You too.

  22. on 10 Feb 2012 at 2:19 pm 22.Lou (DFW) said …

    20.Bryan said …

    “By the way, my dad died from cancer but it doesn’t change my view.”

    I’ll bet you prayed to your imaginary god to save him, too.

    “His insurance money saved my moms life…”

    Except, of course, that it didn’t. Nobody’s life is “saved.” Everybody will die.

    “so everything does happen for a reason.”

    Because he bought life insurance?

    “My mom is alive and I get to spend time with her.”

    One day, she and you, along with the rest of us, will be dead. Then you won’t get to spend any time with her. In fact, the time you spend with her isn’t even a fraction of all the time that you think your imaginary god exists. So instead of wasting time preaching about your imaginary god, maybe you should be spending time with her?

  23. on 18 Feb 2012 at 10:54 am 23.michael said …

    again, always the same arguments. Believers will believe no matter what arguments/ evidence/ logic are brought to bear. It doesn,t matter though as long as it’s inside thier heads. It’s when the religists try and tell the rest of us how to live we should worry. I’m certainly worried about this, what with the fundamentalists, muslims etc. we run the risk of crazy irrational laws and persecutions, a real step back for humanity the way things are going. I worry about the future and our children, especially the girls, organised religion has long persecuted females, evidence indeed of the man-made nature of religion

  24. on 21 Mar 2012 at 12:13 am 24.BornBless said …

    Ilaugh at you guys the way you are wasting time and shaming and showing up yourselves. About you have proven god doesn’t exist. You lazy, hypocritical, good-for-nothing, stupid, deranged bunch.

    There may be what we can call and NB. I said ‘what can be called’ inconsistencies in the varying views of God. However we can’t say for certain that they are inconsistencies unless we knew God’s mind and you certainly don’t. Life is short the big guy is getting ready to wack you and you don’t even know he exist- that is a form of praise well done.

    I don’t know about the Bible but there are contradictions in this computer I am using and yet it is working. Search the Bible you will see the word science mentioned explicitly at least two time – believers in bible days knew about science.

    You will also explicitly see ‘the fool hath said in his own heart there is no God. If there is a strongest man, if there is a fastest man, if there is a tallest man, if there is a smartest man, why isn’t there a strongest being in the universe or the multiverse? If there is an oldest human being and a first human being to walk the face of the land why is there not a first being to exist period?

    You guys don’t understand the religious clause. Not all life can be broken down to science. If a man’s wife told him take me to dinner. The man would hardly swab her stomach and test her blood and then and go to the science lab and provide her with the best tablet for her protein, vitamin and mineral he would just buy her chocolate and wine right. Religion has learned long time ago to break out of the mere telling and to show instead.

    My world view is at any rate compatable with several different world religions so I don’t believe that the existence of several religions disproves God I believe in a God who is the all facilitating mastermind of life in the universe. Before the rude and rancid little athiest get up on the morning to say I hate you god God knows, God has to provide that disloyal voicebox and tongue which utters those words. For God to die is for total destruction to ensue. If you wanted to kill him you would have to use enough energy to burn yourself up and die in the process and by then the eternal God wouldn’t have even broken a sweat. You need to find out what is the purpose of creation and human life before you criticise you could be making a fool of yourself what is evil for god isn’t evil for man and visa versa. Suffering and death is not a sin. If you went to a bowling club you wouldn’t hesitate to smash the iron bowling ball in those proud skittles knocking them to the floor, if you were playing darts you wouldn’t hesitate to pierce that darts board with the arrow. A meal is not useful until is it devoured, a seed is of no use unless it falls to the ground and dies. Man is a mortal and suffering race, God is a comforting and succouring God to those that pay the price to understand him and that makes the effort to clean their emotions in order to start a fire of love for him in their hearts.

  25. on 21 Mar 2012 at 11:18 am 25.BornBless said …

    I laugh at you guys the way you are wasting time and shaming and showing up yourselves. About you have proven God doesn’t exist. You lazy, hypocritical, good-for-nothing, stupid, deranged bunch.

    There may be what we can call and NB. I said ‘what can be called’ inconsistencies in the varying views of God. However we can’t say for certain that they are inconsistencies unless we knew God’s mind and you certainly don’t. Life is short the big guy is getting ready to wack you and you don’t even know he exist- that is a form of praise – well done.

    I don’t know about the Bible but there are contradictions in this computer I am using and yet it is working. Search the Bible you will see the word science mentioned explicitly at least two times – believers in bible days knew about science.

    You will also explicitly see ‘the fool hath said in his own heart there is no God.’ If there is a strongest man, if there is a fastest man, if there is a tallest man, if there is a smartest man, why isn’t there a strongest being in the universe or the multiverse? If there is an oldest human being and a first human being to walk the face of the land, why is there not a first being to exist period?

    You guys don’t understand the religious clause. Not all life can be broken down to science. If a man’s wife told him ‘take me to dinner’. The man would hardly swab her stomach and test
    her blood and then and go to the science lab and provide her with the best tablet for her protein, vitamin and mineral he would just buy her chocolate and wine right. Religion has learned long time ago to break out of the mere telling and to show instead.

    My world view is at any rate compatible with several different world religions so I don’t believe that the existence of several religions disproves God I believe in a God who is the all-facilitating mastermind of life in the universe. Before the rude and rancid little atheist gets up on the morning to say ‘I hate you god’ – God knows, God has to provide that disloyal voice-box and tongue which utters those words. For God to die is for total destruction to ensue. If you wanted to kill him you would have to use enough energy to burn yourself up and die in the process and by then the eternal God wouldn’t have even broken a sweat. You need to find out what is the purpose of creation and human life before you criticise; you could be making a fool of yourself what is evil for God isn’t evil for man and visa versa. Suffering and death is not a sin. If you went to a bowling club you wouldn’t hesitate to smash the iron bowling ball in those proud skittles knocking them to the floor, if you were playing darts you wouldn’t hesitate to pierce that darts board with the arrow. A meal is not useful until is it devoured, a seed is of no use unless it falls to the ground and dies. Man is a mortal and suffering race, God is a comforting and succouring God to those that pay the price to understand him and those that make the effort to clean their emotions up in order start a ‘fire of love’ for him in their hearts.

  26. on 21 Mar 2012 at 11:29 am 26.BornBless said …

    No I am not a computer program if you were wondering, I am a real entity with the love and hope of eternity in my heart and I will live on and give praises forever as a conscious soul; long after the wicked have perished into the depth of hell and destruction. Yes my eyes shall witness the destruction of the wicked.

  27. on 21 Mar 2012 at 12:06 pm 27.Lou (DFW) said …

    25.BornBless said …

    “I laugh at you guys the way you are wasting time and shaming and showing up yourselves.”

    Says the guy who bothered to waste his time, “shaming and showing up” himself to us that we are “wasting time and shaming and showing up” ourselves.

  28. on 21 Mar 2012 at 1:26 pm 28.ReligionIsStupid said …

    Well, that’s that then.

    Some weak-minded, deranged, angry, afraid, idiot posts on the internet that the proof that gods exist is that some fool said “gods exist, and my proof is that people will tell me I’m wrong”.

    I’ll convert right away then. Thanks for the staggeringly convincing argument. It never occurred to me that such a strong case as yours could exist.

    Thanks also for the demonstration of the hatred, bigotry, and vile nature of the religion of the zombie.

    You lazy, hypocritical, good-for-nothing, stupid, deranged bunch.

    Life is short the big guy is getting ready to wack you and you don’t even know he exist- that is a form of praise – well done.

    Before the rude and rancid little atheist gets up on the morning to say ‘I hate you god’ – God knows,

    Yes my eyes shall witness the destruction of the wicked.

  29. on 21 Mar 2012 at 1:50 pm 29.DPK said …

    Believe me, no one here thought you were a computer program. No one with a college education would ever program something so stupid and inane.
    As to you post Mr.Born… well, it speaks for itself and certainly needs no additional comments. Enjoy eternity. Please don’t breed.
    D

  30. on 21 Mar 2012 at 3:09 pm 30.BornBless said …

    Well how about that something you guys don’t know. You actually don’t know that not only do I have a University Education, I have a College Education in Religion and Ethics.

    Totally surprised you didn’t know that what else don’t you know. You must have used up all your brain cells and attention units in ‘Knowing that god doesn’t exist.’ And in proclaiming this new truth that the world doesn’t know about and needs that badly. Do you have the patent on this new and great thing that will save the world where all else failed before? What do you call it atheism? Smashing name it has roots in the word theism.

    I admire your devotion to being taking in by the worlds first and greatest heresy. I hope you will learn to admire God’s devotion to punishing the arrogant.

  31. on 21 Mar 2012 at 3:25 pm 31.Lou (DFW) said …

    30.Brainless said …

    “I hope you will learn to admire God’s devotion to punishing the arrogant.”

    Brainless, we would if only such a god existed. Why don’t you put that “University Education” to work and provide evidence of said god? I would be more than happy to learn from your evidence.

  32. on 21 Mar 2012 at 3:55 pm 32.ReligionIsStupid said …

    I have a College Education in Religion and Ethics.

    Lucky you, but a “college” education in religion sounds as useful in the real world as a medical education in trepanation, with the similarity being that it’s a good way for your brains to fall out.

    I eagerly await you offering some proof for your god above and beyond ‘it’s true because other people say it isn’t’.

  33. on 21 Mar 2012 at 5:34 pm 33.BornBless said …

    You talk about Science – Read this.

    Daniel Chapter 1: vs 3+4
    ‘And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Isreal, and of the kings seed, and of the princes, Children in whom was no blemish, but well-favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding SCIENCE, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.’
    VS 6 ‘Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azari
    ………………………………………….
    These men are all heros of faith they were the best in their day because of their scientific knowledge but because scientific knowledge is to be counted as dross compared to Religious Knowledge they choose to be RATHER known for the better part.
    ……………………………………………
    Read
    1 Timothy 6:20
    ‘O Timothy keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of SCIENCE falsely so called.’
    ……………………………………………
    The gift of science comes from God without God science is a non-starter it does not exist. Science outside of the provision and will of God is empty and proposing a science in opposition or indifference to God the creator and giver of all things is false.
    ……………………………………………
    Read Psalms 53:1
    ‘The fool have said in his own heart THERE IS NO GOD. Corrupt are they, and have done an abominable iniquity; there is none that doeth good;‘
    ……………………………………………
    Call me brainless but I would rather be brainless than Godless. God is the source from where all good things flow including intelligence and the faculties of intelligence.

    I have been to College three times including correspondence study. I have studied Finance, Maths and also Religion and Ethics. What I have learned is that all things in the economic system are for one main thing to maintain one’s body. But anyone who neglects his immortal soul to maintain a transient body made of mud and to only prop up cognitive faculties which will fail without the preservation of God is – dumb squared:(
    I respect science not least because science teaches that if you want something of relative usefulness, beauty and advancement you have to create it. Men may have been primitive 12 thousand years ago but even then they could realise that their bodies and lives were built by a master craftsman, the same master craftsman who was responsible for the prime movement and who had thus crafted the universe in all its majesty. They chose to refer to this being as God or the Supreme being. So do I. I also seek to find out his purpose for me and I follow it. I myself am a living proof of God – I can’t exist without God. But more than that I must try to be a living proof of the power of God’s salvation and favour in my life.

  34. on 21 Mar 2012 at 5:43 pm 34.ReligionIsStupid said …

    BB, still waiting on that proof.

  35. on 21 Mar 2012 at 5:43 pm 35.Suh said …

    Born,

    Great posts! I enjoy watching the arrogant mind-numbing atheist left speechless.

  36. on 21 Mar 2012 at 5:50 pm 36.BornBless said …

    All those scientific questions yet to be answered the answers are with God. All those questions of Religion and Spirituality still to be answered they are also with God. But if we had to wait on Newton, Gallieo and Einstein or even Hawkings to exist won’t we be doomed. Or will paradise be all done and dusted when Dawkings finishes his next book. Athiest are not as critical thinkers as they pretend and their is no real hope far less an eternal hope with them.

  37. on 21 Mar 2012 at 6:00 pm 37.ReligionIsStupid said …

    So, in summary, no proof at all. What a shocker!

  38. on 21 Mar 2012 at 6:05 pm 38.Which Ways Up? said …

    Assuming logic and spirituality are both human defined processes at describing the same universe, then is it reasonable to assume that there is a purpose for humans feeling a need to define reality?

    If so, then could you say there seems to be, at least minimally, similarities between the processes?

    In that case, one could derive Truth both from logically determining specific facts combined with discerning those facts spiritually within the broad contexts provided by hypothesis belief.

    Assuming Logic iand Faith are tools for understanding context. Neither is a gavel for judging hypothesis, they are simply separate parts of the entire method of understanding AND interpreting reality.

    Just my thoughts on these things, though I try not to think about them. Too much for me to think about at one time. Just gotta let it slowly roll on in.

  39. on 21 Mar 2012 at 6:24 pm 39.Lou (DFW) said …

    25.Brainless said …

    “I laugh at you guys the way you are wasting time and shaming and showing up yourselves.”

    We are STILL WAITING for evidence of your imaginary god, not more of your “wasting time and shaming and showing up” yourself.

  40. on 21 Mar 2012 at 6:49 pm 40.Severin said …

    38 WWU
    “… then is it reasonable to assume that there is a purpose for humans feeling a need to define reality?”

    WHY would it be “reasonable to assume”?
    For me, it is equally reasonable to assume that there is no purpose at all.

    Can you elaborate your assumption?

  41. on 21 Mar 2012 at 8:18 pm 41.DPK said …

    ” I have a University Education, I have a College Education …”

    You should ask for your Money Back for your University Education.
    Then go back to Community College and take a Course on Proper Use of Capitalization.

    D

  42. on 21 Mar 2012 at 9:08 pm 42.BornBless said …

    Each of us is a different person and we are not all convinced by the same things. Scientific truth for the Religious Studies student comes about because of a kind of hands on experience. You also have historical truth, moral truth and spiritual truth along with the powers of induction and deduction. However deduction and induction are also largely dependent ultimately on a measure of belief in self. The ability to question is sacred no doubt. However persuasion only comes about when the desire to question runs out; while on the other hand conformity comes when the ABILITY to question runs out. I am in many ways a non-conformist however, I know and am persuaded that there is a point when the unrestrained desire to question may become evidence of folly and of an unholy and rebellious nature. There is also a thin separation between experience and evidence. Evidence on its own is never enough to spiritually quicken someone and absolute conviction is not necessarily truth – but many an experiment into religion has led to eternal salvation.

  43. on 21 Mar 2012 at 9:45 pm 43.ReligionIsStupid said …

    BB — still waiting for you to provide physical evidence of this god of yours. Whenever you’re ready.

  44. on 21 Mar 2012 at 9:58 pm 44.alex said …

    “However persuasion only comes about when the desire to question runs out”….meaning you’ve been moronized.

    I believe in the god jupiter which makes me a moron. Just like you and your moronic christ.

    “…an experiment into religion has led to eternal salvation.”….. more moronic evidence.

    where’s the god? ra, zeus, allah, yaweh? I know, it’s in your heart….

  45. on 21 Mar 2012 at 10:11 pm 45.ReligionIsStupid said …

    “where’s the god? ra, zeus, allah, yaweh? I know, it’s in your heart….”

    Maybe, but it might just be in the mail along with BB’s correspondence materials. Unless, of course, this college was a diploma mill such as the one that Hovind “attended”, in which case this god may well be found in a theme park.

  46. on 21 Mar 2012 at 10:40 pm 46.DPK said …

    “I am in many ways a non-conformist however, I know and am persuaded that there is a point when the unrestrained desire to question may become evidence of folly and of an unholy and rebellious nature.”

    I’m sorry. WTF??? Unholy and rebellious nature, or perhaps a dose of common sense? Sounds like silver haired preacher talk to me…. haha

    “but many an experiment into religion has led to eternal salvation.”

    Really? How do you know? Let me guess, some magic book told you. The same magic book that predicted some people will tell you gods don’t exist, therefore, since that insightful prophesy has come true, then gods therefore must exist.

    Hey, I’ll predict something for you. Yea, be wary, those who do the pirate’s work will no doubt try to tell you the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not real! Believe them not, for I tell you, the FSM has told me that they will try to convince you he does not exist. Who, but a real magical and eternal bundle of noodles, could know such a thing? Pass the parmesan!

  47. on 21 Mar 2012 at 11:19 pm 47.Lou (DFW) said …

    46.DPK said …

    “Pass the parmesan!”

    Should Parmesan be capitalized? ha-ha! :>)

  48. on 21 Mar 2012 at 11:26 pm 48.Lou (DFW) said …

    42.BornBless said …

    “There is also a thin separation between experience and evidence.”

    Thin or not, it definitely exists. Experience is not evidence. What do you think the term anecdotal evidence means, “COLLEGE BOY?”

    The more you dig, the deeper your hole becomes. Let me put it another way – you’re neither intelligent nor clever, so stop trying to be because it only makes you appear ignorant and foolish.

  49. on 22 Mar 2012 at 12:05 am 49.DPK said …

    46.DPK said …
    “Pass the parmesan!”
    Should Parmesan be capitalized? ha-ha! :>)

    No idea…. I went to Catholic school………… awwwkkk!

  50. on 22 Mar 2012 at 12:25 am 50.BornBless said …

    Let me ask YOU where is YOUR physical evidence that God does not exist? The only thing you have proved so far is your fallibility – AFTER ALL YOU WERE THE ONES WHO KNEW THAT I HAD NEVER BEEN TO COLLEGE.

    You have also proved that you are professionals at polemics and at being arbitrary rather than being critical in your response. MAYBE YOU HAVE BEEN DRINKING 30% PROOF RUM.

    And let me give you a crash course in the Bible. The Bible does not deny that other Gods exist. It does however propose one omnipotent God only; and refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the God of gods. The Bible also says in the writings of King Solomon that the principle thing in this life is Wisdom. However it is a fool that says there is no God. Further one of the most powerful chapters in the New Testament extols love or charity above all other emotions (and God is love). It also says Charity believeth all things. See 1 Corinthians 13 vs 7. There is a beautiful word in philosophy ‘Qua’. This means capacity – ontologically everything is, but a thing can only exist in a given capacity. In my belief system if the mind can conceive it Almightiness can achieve it. While everything can exist potentially they will only do so in the capacity determined for them by the omnipotent and maximally great God. Finally nothing is better rewarded in this life than persistence. If you continue to seek the proof of God ‘big G’ not ‘little g’ he will give you the proof according to his only wise mind and I don’t mean Hennessey or Bacardi.

  51. on 22 Mar 2012 at 12:27 am 51.alex said …

    “Let me ask YOU where is YOUR physical evidence that God does not exist”….

    ding, ding, ding, ding. we have a moron!!!

    Let me ask YOU where is YOUR physical evidence that Santa does not exist?

  52. on 22 Mar 2012 at 12:46 am 52.Reasonable Assuming said …

    Observation: Proof cannot be interpreted with a single human mind

    Reasonable Assumption: All disagreement stems from multiple entities being unable to
    reconcile their interpretations of evidence.

    Conclusion: A collective interpretation can be established from which a person can
    attempt to derive a fully comprehensive view of reality.

    Jive?

  53. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:15 am 53.+1 for Wisdom said …

    You Atheists are gonna have to get a little more abstract with your logic if you wanna interpret wisdom.

    Wisdom is experiential.

    Wisdom laughs at logic because logic is implied by wisdom.

    Wisdom gives logic contexts of measurement and purpose to operate in.

    Think of the logic behind logic, basic digital 1′s and 0′s

    “Bio-Digital Jazz Man…” – TRON@

    So I guess you guys need to start

    “… knocking on the sky and listening to the sounds.”
    - (also TRON)

  54. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:18 am 54.ReligionIsStupid said …

    Wow, all this pile of shit because the theists can’t produce any evidence that sky daddy and baby Jesus is anything other than figments of their deluded imaginations.

  55. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:25 am 55.Lou (DFW) said …

    50.BornBless said …

    “Let me ask YOU where is YOUR physical evidence that God does not exist?”

    And there it is, the inevitable cry of the frustrated theist. Now the dirt is collapsing into the hole.

    “If you continue to seek the proof of God ‘big G’ not ‘little g’ he will give you the proof according to his only wise mind and I don’t mean Hennessey or Bacardi.”

    How do you know that? Maybe god does work through “Hennessey [sic] or Bacardi.” After all, one must be drunk out of their mind to believe such nonsense, especially without any evidence.

  56. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:29 am 56.Lou (DFW) said …

    53.+1 for Wisdom said …

    “You Atheists [sic] are gonna have to get a little more abstract with your logic if you wanna interpret wisdom.”

    All we want to see is your evidence for your imaginary god, not logic or wisdom. You must be reading too much 40YOA – if you can’t dazzle us with brilliance, then try to baffle them with b.s.

  57. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:33 am 57.Lou (DFW) said …

    49.DPK said …

    46.DPK said …
    “Pass the parmesan!”
    Should Parmesan be capitalized? ha-ha! :>)

    “No idea…. I went to Catholic school………… awwwkkk!”

    Then pass the Bacardi and Hennessy!

  58. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:38 am 58.Reasonable Assuming said …

    Wow,

    So if you learn spiritual wisdom from Christianity really well and are
    unable to define
    it through
    logical communication
    then you can reasonably assume other ways of interpreting reality must veer from Judeo-Christian Paradigm by mere specific miscommunications, rather than broad misdefinition of truth.

    Proof is what we all have, evidence is how you make proof relevant, and belief is individual interpretations of evidence derived by proof.

    (Religion / Science) = Reality

    Yyyeyya diyeg?

  59. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:48 am 59.ReligionIsStupid said …

    So, in summation. No proof for the existence of the god of the Xtians or any other god for that matter. Well, except for FSM – Bless His Noodley Appendages!

  60. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:49 am 60.Evidence for Dummies said …

    Evidence is a snapshot of Reality.

    You need to put together many proofs from evidence to imply truth from reality.

    Reality 101:

    Snapshots (some value) can be placed on a grid.

    Grids can be intersected to create dimensions

    Dimensions are referenced to interpret evidence

    Evidence is prooved through a method of intuition that derives based on a prior knowledge

    If the conclusion is assumed to be correct, all relative proof will lead to that conclusion

    Conclusion:

    YOUR EVIDENCE IS HIDDEN THROUGHOUT ALL THE EVIDENCE.

  61. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:09 am 61.ReligionIsStupid said …

    So, as demonstrated by the nonsensical ramblings in #60. There is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of any god or gods.

  62. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:54 am 62.DPK said …

    “Conclusion: A collective interpretation can be established from which a person can attempt to derive a fully comprehensive view of reality.”

    Which is why collectively speaking, 800 years ago the earth was flat… until of course, enough people joined the collective interpretation that it was in fact, spherical.
    Uh.. well so much for that theory.
    Reality doesn’t give a balled up shit what you collectively interpret it to be. It is what it is.

  63. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:29 am 63.BornBless said …

    Obviously you did not get my point, Santa Clause does exist, but the question is – ‘in what capacity?’ The song says all you ever learned from love was to shoot at someone who outdrew you. But while this is the attitude of Atheist to Theist, religion does not only outdraw science it is concerned with the foundation on which all things stand, including science; just like God is the foundation on which all things stand. If we were to ban the imaginary from the classroom – trust me it will be the language teachers, the science teachers, maths teachers and so on who will be packing up. No mathematician would be allowed to say ‘let A = to’ because A would be imaginary right. We wouldn’t be able to teach Shakesspeare or kids stories. And by the way give us back our infinite the infinite doesn’t belong in Maths as only the ‘imaginary’ god is infinite. God is very real but as you have not made him real in your life it seems to you that he is not. You don’t know what you are missing. To question is one thing, to harden your heart and permanently lock God out is greater folly and a more horrendous self-injury than suicide could ever be. I leave you guys to time…

  64. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:46 am 64.DPK said …

    “God is very real but as you have not made him real in your life it seems to you that he is not.”

    Perhaps god is not real, but you have made him real in your life so it seem he is? That is just as valid a claim as yours. The difference is, do you claim your god interacts in the physical world, or is he only and internal feeling… like an emotion, which only exists inside your mind?
    If you admit that, then we have no disagreement, god is an imaginary construct that exists only in your mind. If you wish to claim that god is more than that, for example that he answers prayers, performs miracles, intercedes in the physical world.. then that process must by definition leave physical evidence that can be quantified and evaluated. There is none. Why is that?

  65. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:49 am 65.ReligionIsStupid said …

    Yes, BB, we got your point. You’re believe that if you close your eyes and wish really, really, really, hard, a nice man will come down out of the sky and make things all better.

    It’s a delusion, of course, but apparently it’s all you have in your life.

  66. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:52 am 66.DPK said …

    And I did get your point, I just disagree with it. Despite your convoluted pseudo-psychological ramblings, the fact is that Santa Claus does NOT exist. Unless you wish to concede that god “exists” in the same manner that Santa “exists” as a figment of imagination believed by people (children) not yet intelligent enough to realize he is just a myth.

  67. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:16 am 67.I can't talk to people who... said …

    A) Don’t see the universe as a logical systerm

    B) Don’t understand systemic logic – ie. the make up of a logical process

    C) Deny their own humanity in order to create logical ambiguity which can isolate specific points of a certain belief and call the entire belief faulty because it cannot be prooved (such as taking scriptures out of context)

    I’m very happy you can logically form a conclusion based on your interpretation of evidence.

    Hehe… Good for you, who can’t to justify their beliefs?

    Come talk to me when you understand people.

  68. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:17 am 68.Lou (DFW) said …

    63.BornBless said …

    “Obviously you did not get my point, Santa Clause does exist, but the question is – ‘in what capacity?’”

    Well, DPK beat me to that one.

    “If we were to ban the imaginary from the classroom – trust me it will be the language teachers, the science teachers, maths teachers and so on who will be packing up.”

    None of those things are imaginary.

    “No mathematician would be allowed to say ‘let A = to’ because A would be imaginary right.”

    No, it wouldn’t. You are greatly confused.

    “God is very real but as you have not made him real in your life it seems to you that he is not.”

    That would be like saying Osama Bin Laden was not real in my life, therefore the WTC attacks never happened. Reality is not a matter of choice or perception. It exists regardless of how it’s perceived. There is no reality of Santa Claus in any capacity other than in the imagination. By definition, something that is imagined is not real.

    “You don’t know what you are missing.”

    Yes, we do – evidence for your imaginary god, that you theists NEVER, EVER provide.

    “To question is one thing, to harden your heart and permanently lock God out is greater folly and a more horrendous self-injury than suicide could ever be.”

    Except that statement belies the truth. We all want god to present himself, or at least provide evidence of himself through his alleged followers – but he NEVER, EVER does. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. No pun intended.

    “I leave you guys to time…”

    Promises, promises…

  69. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:19 am 69.I can't talk to people who... said …

    And can see Reality for what it is and what it isn’t and make connections not conclusions.

    Its not ”Pseudo-Psychological” It is a scientific process that understands faith and logics are both tools of understanding to be used in specific ways.

    Take it or leave it, But I gotta go turn the universe inside out and I don’t have to explain it any further. Guarantee these assumptions lead to wholistic views of the system of reality which evidence aims to explain…

  70. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:22 am 70.Three things you need to determine said …

    1. Who is your maker?

    2. Who is your mate?

    3. What is your mission?

    then you have peace, and you don’t get your intellectuall ego fed by attacking each other’s beliefs.

    Trust me I have a doctorate in Communications Theory and Digital Logic

    For you bi-’s I think both ways.

  71. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:25 am 71.BornBless said …

    Man is also composed of a dual nature. Physical and Spirit. God is a spirit and while as the Bible says the creations declare the handiwork of God the greatest evidence for God is the work he does in one’s spirit not in producing evidence for the 5 senses. Many a dog wistle has been blown and the sound never registered in the 5 senses of man but the dog came running. Shows how pathetic a man that depends on physical evidence can be and without God man remains even more pathetic.

  72. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:26 am 72.Problem with using the word 'Summation' said …

    implies a complete thesis can be put into a ignorant summation that does not commit due diligence to interpret what is said.

  73. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:27 am 73.Problem with using the word 'Summation' said …

    in other words, use basic math (addition) to solve complex problems (the universe)

    not adequate guys……

    .

  74. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:28 am 74.Amen BornBless said …

    Start with the Spirit and Heart, (beliefs and convictions), end with logical conclusions.

  75. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:31 am 75.Thank God for Jesus and Grace said …

    Grace and understanding of the need for it leads us Christians to explain why we are all blind, while logic leads you Atheist to determine that Christianity is BullShit

  76. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:31 am 76.Thank God for Jesus and Grace said …

    so you can do whatever your little id and ego desire

  77. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:32 am 77.Thank God for Jesus and Grace said …

    Understand your SuperEgo, and you will know what you ought to know how you ought to know it.

  78. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:32 am 78.Thank God for Jesus and Grace said …

    Stop logic chopping, and interpret the WHOLE

  79. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:35 am 79.Atheist can't Create CONTEXT to interpret Content said …

    Content must fit in a context to understand a concept…

    You guys should be able to consult your own humanity and science to perceive these basic concepts of Christiainity.

    Faith
    Grace
    Redemption
    etc…

    They run throughout the universe like a computer code.

  80. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:38 am 80.Talk to me when you actually study shit said …

    the evidence is in the information

  81. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:41 am 81.Breakdown said …

    Faith – Scientific Method

    Grace – Divine correction of faulty logic based on the human condition

    Redemption- Birth, Death, Life

    Star Cycle
    Other Religions
    Pretty much any 3 step process

  82. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:42 am 82.Breakdown said …

    Work from what we all can know to what you think you know.

  83. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:44 am 83.Breakdown said …

    email me if you want to talk to someone well qualified to help you interpret your beliefs from your assumptions

  84. on 22 Mar 2012 at 5:12 am 84.Anonymous said …

    Lo and behold the insanity of religious belief and a clear demonstration why we religion should be treated as a mental illness. Get help and please stay away from children until you do so.

  85. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:55 am 85.Godless Monkey said …

    Faith, grace, redemption, the “whole” (whatever that means) star cycle, et cetera, Versus: Evidence (wholly important), the sciences (all that is truly science, and I will not list every field therein — any 8th grader should know these — but suffice it to say not apologist science), mythology (read some Joseph Campbell, among many), and just plain common sense, assuming one is not a Forest Gump and actually has an IQ over 75, and any thinking person with confirmation bias, fear and indoctrination set aside, will easily come to the realization that magic (read: gods, angels, demons, et cetera) is not real. Once one lets go of the reward/punishment aspect of religion and starts thinking critically it all becomes so clear. Let go of the magic; it’s all a ruse. The natural world holds far more mystery and awe-inspiring truth than the mythologized one ever will. And guess what, where religion is static, what we’ve actually yet to learn about the universe, in reality, is far more interesting and mind boggling than could ever be found in any man-made book of god, or gods, as they were all written by man, not god/s. That still so many are blinded and/or afraid to seek out reality for fear of giving up their imagined mortality speaks highly of our failed education system stifled by religious zealots.

  86. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:17 pm 86.Lou (DFW) said …

    71.BornBless said …

    “Man is also composed of a dual nature. Physical and Spirit.”

    Complete and utter b.s. There’s absolutely no evidence of “spirit.” It’s simply part of the religion delusion.

  87. on 22 Mar 2012 at 1:48 pm 87.Lou (DFW) said …

    71.BornBless said …

    “God is a spirit and while as the Bible says the creations declare the handiwork of God the greatest evidence for God is the work he does in one’s spirit not in producing evidence for the 5 senses.”

    And the hits just keep on coming…

    See how the theists denial operates when they can’t provide evidence for their imaginary god?

    First, it’s the old “prove god doesn’t exist” schtick.

    Then it’s the tired “god is a spirit” who exists outside of physicality (and time and space), so therefore there’s no “physical” evidence for him (even though the Bible and other religious texts are full of stories about a god who routinely physically interacted with people. The truth is that your imaginary god exists outside of REALITY.

    Theism – rationalization at its finest.

    Thanks for playing, Brainless. You can go home now.

  88. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:09 pm 88.Why Moral Reletivism is a CopOut said …

    A government needs to regulate

    Regulation requires a common ground

    A common ground is something everybody believes

    There is not one thing that the American Sysytem, set up by people with MORALS AND VALUES, can do without a common MORAL AND ETHICAL ground.

    Atheist on this blog are going in logical loops to run from the fact that co-existance requires cooperation which requires common beliefs.

    Christians are getting frustrated because they keep telling you your evidence is in your ability to make up your own damn mind on how to interpret evidence in a subjective reality.

  89. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:21 pm 89.The Problem with Starting with 'No God' said …

    Sayin there is no God unless you proove it seems more less logical to me than to say there is a God because…

    Premise: Material began to exist at the Big Bang
    Premise: Designing the layout of material must happen, intelligent or not

    Conclusion 1: Material was designed by either intelligence or random processes

    Can we all agree on this?

  90. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:33 pm 90.ReligionIsStupid said …

    No, there is no evidence of “design”.

    It’s really simple. Produce testable evidence of this god or STFU.

  91. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:38 pm 91.The Problem with Starting with 'No God' said …

    Premise: The universe is expanding

    Premise: The more material that manifests, the more complexity is required to sustain that system

    Conclusion: As the universe expands, more complex combination of processes are required to sustain it

    eh?

  92. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:41 pm 92.Define Evidence Please? said …

    Sorry, I didn’t realized you couldn’t follow logic

  93. on 22 Mar 2012 at 2:57 pm 93.Define Evidence Please? said …

    Chose one please so we can start use logic to refine both of our beliefs:

    A) Evidence as any logical conclusions or scientific proofs from which rational interpretations can be made that are most probable to be true.

    B) Evidence as material happenings (ie… I can see, touch, or hear)

  94. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:07 pm 94.Define Testable Please? said …

    A) Testable with the logic of minds working together to form a conclusions

    B) Testable with some measurement of reality that can be either:
    1. Quantified
    2. Qualified by theory based on mathmatical calculation

  95. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:10 pm 95.Define 'Produce'? said …

    A) Provision of physically

    B) Logical Conclusion of mentally

  96. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:12 pm 96.Define 'there is no' ? said …

    A) Is not perceivable through either scientific measurement or sensual experience of reality

    B) Could not and does not exist

  97. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:13 pm 97.Christians and Atheists said …

    Answer The Above Before Posting Please…

    Otherwise we are all waisting our time and we are all humans and on the same team.

    : )

  98. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:30 pm 98.BornBless said …

    God does not exist in the same capacity as Santa Clause. Whatever space in meta-space Santa Clause occupies, whatever place in the mind or heart he occupies, he exists in that. He only exists however because God omnipotent and omnipresent allows him to exist. But we know that God omnipotent exists because all things are contingent upon God. You have to reach an entirely different level of thinking – but eventually it becomes obvious – once the seed of faith is planted in your heart. In fact religion deals with faith more than fact and there is a reason for this. It stems from the love and kindness of God. Who says ‘prove me and find eternal proofs of me’. I ask this question how can one find eternal proofs of an eternal God unless one plans to live forever? Ecclesiastes 3:11 ‘He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end.’ You know in your hearts that someone walking on water won’t make you believe that an omnipotent and eternal God exists in itself but that is why God asks you to incline your heart to him in faith and accept him and only then will he prove himself to you – eternally. I see Athiesm as a blind, childish and rude attempt to attack the divine and the sacred and as an inane and infantile response to the greatest need man has the need to rally one’s self around religious principles. You have your own religion or better put your own irreligion – but it will not help you.

  99. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:33 pm 99.Christians and Atheists said …

    Christians:

    Atheists must have arguments that start with physical realities

    Atheists:

    Christians need you to define terms so that clear communication can take place

    Everyone:

    Have a blessed day : )

  100. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:40 pm 100.Dopplar Effect said …

    It seems that as arguments approach they get louder

    as they pass the listener they peak in loudness

    after they pass the listener they trail off into silence

  101. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:43 pm 101.I Don't Know said …

    But I bet WE do

  102. on 22 Mar 2012 at 3:44 pm 102.BornBless said …

    No God is not imaginary he is the supreme entity on which all things are contingent whether they are what you are calling real or imaginary. Some imaginary things are very useful unlike Atheism.

  103. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:35 pm 103.Lou (DFW) said …

    102.Brainless said …

    “No God is not imaginary he is the supreme entity on which all things are contingent whether they are what you are calling real or imaginary.”

    At first I thought you were simply ignorant and delusional. Now I’m beginning to think that you’re actually psychotic.

    “Some imaginary things are very useful unlike Atheism [sic].”

    For someone who brags about his alleged education, you’re very stupid. Atheism (not really an “ism”) is not an imaginary thing. It’s the rejection of something that is imaginary. Disbelief in imaginary things such as leprechauns, Santa Claus, tooth fairy, and gods is not imaginary.

    Try to understand this – disbelief in an “ism” is not an “ism” itself.

    An stop trying to be clever with your sock “puppeting.” It’s rather obvious.

  104. on 22 Mar 2012 at 4:52 pm 104.ReligionIsStupid said …

    BBB said “But we know that God omnipotent exists because all things are contingent upon God.”

    Congratulations on achieving an almost perfect score on your circular argument test.

  105. on 22 Mar 2012 at 5:02 pm 105.DPK said …

    agree there is a definite disconnect with reality with this one.
    All in all, just another brick in the wall of the lunatic mindset of religious whack-jobs.
    Bet he lives in an RV covered with bible quotes and wears a tin-foil satellite dish on his head.

  106. on 22 Mar 2012 at 5:22 pm 106.BornBless said …

    .In Conclusion,
    .God is real, he is the source or origin of all
    things – things which people call real and things
    which people call imagined.

    .God proves himself time and time again to his own;
    he does not just exist but he represents a source
    of eternal salvation and eternal rewards to his
    own. Time after time God reduces the idea that
    he does not exist, to the absurd. Reductio ad
    absurdum. Why don’t more people believe in
    Atheism? Because it is based on speculative
    and unsound arguments.

    .If you believe that God doesn’t exist when he
    infact does you are carried away by your own vain
    imagination.

    . If you don’t understand that you need therapy.

  107. on 22 Mar 2012 at 5:24 pm 107.Lou (DFW) said …

    “104.ReligionIsStupid said …

    BBB said “But we know that God omnipotent exists because all things are contingent upon God.”

    Congratulations on achieving an almost perfect score on your circular argument test.”

    Thanks for exposing more of this fruitcake’s faulty thought process. I basically stopped reading his ramblings, so I missed that one. As I previously wrote, he’s digging a hole that’s collapsing on him.

  108. on 22 Mar 2012 at 5:51 pm 108.DPK said …

    “God does not exist in the same capacity as Santa Clause. Whatever space in meta-space Santa Clause occupies, whatever place in the mind or heart he occupies, he exists in that. He only exists however because God omnipotent and omnipresent allows him to exist.”

    There you go. Certainly no arguing with that!
    Santa exists, therefore that proves god exists. And to think I’ve missed it all these years.

  109. on 22 Mar 2012 at 6:36 pm 109.Lou (DFW) said …

    106.BornBless said …

    “.God proves himself time and time again to his own;”

    Never to me.

    “he does not just exist but he represents a source of eternal salvation and eternal rewards to his own.”

    Never to me.

    “Why don’t more people believe in
    Atheism? Because it is based on speculative
    and unsound arguments.”

    Incorrect. “Atheism [sic] isn’t a belief system. It isn’t even an “ism.” Unfortunately, lying theists such as yourself intentionally misrepresent the rejection of belief in god in order to support their delusional belief in god. Said lying is required because theists aren’t entirely confident and secure in their delusion. Even if “Atheism” was something that “more people” could believe, then it wouldn’t matter. The fact people believe (in) something doesn’t make it true or false. So your comment is irrelevant.

    “.If you believe that God doesn’t exist when he infact does you are carried away by your own vain imagination.”

    Is it also my “vain imagination” that leprechauns don’t exist? Of course not. Apparently god doesn’t reveal himself to humans. If he did, then why did xtain missionaries attempt to spread the word of god to people around the world who never heard of god? Because those people did not know of god, was it because of their “vain imagination?” Of course not. You’re comment is blatantly, absurdly false – another lie.

    “. If you don’t understand that you need therapy.”

    Anybody who spends too much time reading and listening to the delusional rantings of a religious nut requires therapy.

  110. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:18 pm 110.Vince said …

    BB

    Don’t let atheist pull you into their delusional argument. They are a very small insignificant portion of the population. They are like the Moonies, maybe, or the 911 conspirators. They make a lot of noise but nobody really takes them seriously.

    As they get older, many wise up and drop the shenanigans. The others ride off living their delusion.

  111. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:33 pm 111.Lou (DFW) said …

    110.Vince said …

    “Don’t let atheist pull you into their delusional argument.”

    See how guys like Vince attempt to make “atheism” into a religion, by using a word (delusional) that describe religion? Besides, “atheism” isn’t an argument. It’s the rejection of an argument.

    “They are a very small insignificant portion of the population. They are like the Moonies, maybe, or the 911 conspirators. They make a lot of noise but nobody really takes them seriously.”

    That is a false analogy. Moonies and 911 conspirators make a case for something that has no evidence. Regardless, the number of people who believe something has no bearing on its reality or fiction, except for weak-minded people who can’t think for themselves.

  112. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:38 pm 112.Severin said …

    106 BB
    ““Why don’t more people believe in
    Atheism? Because it is based on speculative
    and unsound arguments.””

    I am sick and tired of idiots who call atheism a “believing system” and atheists call “believers”.
    The word “atheism” was once upon a time made up by theists as a pejorative term for those who rejected to believe in gods.
    I refuse to be called pejorative names any longer, so please be informed: from now on, I am not an atheist, I am a disbeliever in god.

    Now, BB, you are free to pose your idiotic question again in the new form:
    “Why don’t more people believe in disbelieving in god?”, but don’t expect any answer!

  113. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:45 pm 113.Severin said …

    106 BB
    ““Why don’t more people believe in
    Atheism? Because it is based on speculative
    and unsound arguments.””

    Do you believe in Allah, Ra, Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, Odin and Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    You don’t?!

    Why don’t you give us your arguments for your non-believing in those gods, please?
    We can’t wait to hear why, for example you don’t believe in Allah (or Ra, or Zeus, or … whatever you DON’T believe in)

  114. on 22 Mar 2012 at 7:54 pm 114.Severin said …

    106 BB

    Tooth Fairies? Easter Bunny? Leprechauns? Mermaids?

    If you disbelieve them, or some of them, you OWE us your argumentation for your disbelieving!
    I mean, in case you expect us to give you our arguments for non believing in gods, it would be quite fair to hear YOUR arguments for YOUR disbelieving in other things.

    WHY don’t you believe there are leprechauns, for example?
    Your ARGUMENTS please!

  115. on 22 Mar 2012 at 8:05 pm 115.Severin said …

    110 Vince
    “They (atheists) are a very small insignificant portion of the population.”

    Where?
    In Sweden? France? Italy? UK? Spain? Belgium? Netherlands? Estonia? Norway? Hungary? Czech republic? New Zealand? Canada?

    Watch your mouth, please, to avoid being called a liar!

  116. on 22 Mar 2012 at 8:21 pm 116.Go enjoy something and... said …

    Stop waiting blog space, here’s why:

    Lines vs Circles

    Premise: Christians are circular in their logic.
    Premise: Atheists are linear and infinite in their logic.

    Conclusion: An agreement must stem from either:
           1. Giving a start point and end point to Xtian logic
           2. Connecting the end of Atheistic arguments to their beginning

    Given that the universe consists of circular processes (some thing is… Created
                                                                                                           Destroyed Recreated)

    One could reasonably conclude that linear logic, no matter how infinite, is incapable of building arguments from the processes of the universe to the specific parts of the universe.

    Given that the universe is made up of specific parts working separately

    One could  reasonably conclude that circular logic, no matter how finite, is incapable of building arguments from the specific parts of the

    stop waiting time and 1′s and 0′s, here’s why…

    universe and working towards the entire process they claim is true.

    Negotiations of Truth must:

    X-Tians:
    - determine a beginning and an end on circular arguments so that a circle can be squished into a line that linear logic can interpret.

    A-ists:
    - connect conclusions back to your premise so that logical arguments make since in the context of a system.

  117. on 22 Mar 2012 at 8:24 pm 117.Godless Monkey said …

    Christians hate to admit how much we frighten them (they’ll deny this, sure) and their posts bear this out. My gods, what if we’re right and that when you die, well, that’s it — no candy mountains in the sky, no immortality? That scares the bajayzuz out of them. If one chooses to live in a delusion why not choose vampirism, which is just as mythological as christianity? And the bonus… you get to sleep all day, party all night! Of course they’ll then point out how immoral vampirism is as compared to their highly moral (said facetiously) code of ethics, blah, blah, blah…

  118. on 22 Mar 2012 at 8:31 pm 118.Circle vs. Line Problem said …

    Christians try to see things as a whole, Atheists claim no whole exists, only specific parts

  119. on 23 Mar 2012 at 4:42 am 119.Are we negotiating over the nature of the universe? said …

    Are we using logical conclusions to come up with evidence on this blog? Could anyone tell me why we are all posting on here?

  120. on 23 Mar 2012 at 4:44 am 120.Are we negotiating over the nature of the universe? said …

    I mean, logically we could infer from the title of the blog that there is supposed to be a proces for me to become an Atheist in 5 months. I WANT to become an Atheist, Christianity is screwing my life up, but I can’t look at the world properly.

  121. on 23 Mar 2012 at 7:41 pm 121.Guess not said …

    Who starts a blog without even thinking about what conclusion they would like to arrive at at the end of it?

    Or is a blog just a bunch of people babling their beliefs and not working from specific arguments to agreable conclusions.

    Break Down the Arguments for:

    There is no God

    There is a God

    other wise yall are all waisting your time butting heads with each other.

  122. on 23 Mar 2012 at 8:02 pm 122.Godless Monkey said …

    Break down the arguments for: There is no Odin V. There is an Odin.

  123. on 18 Jun 2012 at 3:12 am 123.Peacemaker said …

    You don’t have to be Christian to go to heaven.

    Someone had to state this.
    There are people who are not in the church who are in the kingdom of god because they lived a moral life of helping others and being a good person in general. Despite the fact that they never knew Jesus or turned a page of the Bible and they still merit eternal life with god. There are also people in the church who are not in the kingdom of god because they did not practice the faith that they pretended to believe. It doesn’t matter where you are born. If the people in the Amazon try to behave well and put others before themselves and just be good people in general, they too will merit the kingdom of heaven and so will you.

  124. on 18 Jun 2012 at 3:15 am 124.Peacemaker said …

    And severin, in case you didn’t know, god=Allah=Yahweh.

  125. on 18 Jun 2012 at 3:22 am 125.Peacemaker said …

    You need evidence? Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, came to spread the word of the kingdom. There are eyewitnesses and everything. How’s that for evidence?

  126. on 18 Jun 2012 at 9:30 pm 126.alex said …

    “There are eyewitnesses and everything”.

    i saw a paralyzed dude at the park get up after another dude commanded him in the name of zeus. should i start worshiping his zeusness? you’re a moron.

    don’t get me wrong. i don’t know all the answers, but seriously, you’re full of shit.

  127. on 18 Jun 2012 at 9:31 pm 127.alex said …

    “And severin, in case you didn’t know, god=Allah=Yahweh.”

    add santa, the tooth fairy, ra, madonna, blah, blah.

  128. on 18 Jun 2012 at 9:47 pm 128.Ian said …

    “don’t get me wrong. i don’t know all the answers”

    Just to be clear, you don’t have any answers. You feel inadequate, irrelevant and angry. Someone has to clean the latrines.

  129. on 18 Jun 2012 at 10:52 pm 129.Lou(DFW) said …

    125.Peacemaker said …

    “You need evidence? Jesus, the incarnate Word of God, came to spread the word of the kingdom. There are eyewitnesses and everything. How’s that for evidence?”

    We see people now who “spread the word of the kingdom.” How is that evidence of anything other than a belief in something for which there is no evidence?

  130. on 18 Jun 2012 at 11:06 pm 130.alex said …

    “Just to be clear, you don’t have any answers. You feel inadequate, irrelevant and angry. Someone has to clean the latrines.”

    yeah, i get to clean up your biblical shit.

    complicit you, beat up a fag or bomb an abortion clinic, i protest, and you say “i have no answers for faggots and baby butcher shop” therefore I shouldn’t.

    you morons crack me up. once again, if i can’t explain anything it must be god. try thinking for once, moron.

  131. on 18 Jun 2012 at 11:14 pm 131.alex said …

    “Just to be clear, you don’t have any answers.”

    …sorry that I didn’t believe in your santa claus. i have seen the error of my ways and i offer “the great pumpkin” as the alternative.

    how’s that, moron?

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