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Christianity Thomas on 14 Aug 2011 12:14 am

The effect of Christianity on presidential candidates

The leading Republican candidates this year appear to be extremely Christian. In fact, both Perry and Bachmann are as far right as Christians can get – they are Dominionists:

Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry aren’t just devout—both have deep ties to a fringe fundamentalist movement known as Dominionism

If you want to understand Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry, understanding Dominionism isn’t optional.

Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America’s most radical theocrats, it’s long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing.

Bachmann is particularly Christian, as demonstrated here:

Bachmann addresses faith, key issues in W.H. race

“As president of the United States, I would pray. I would pray and ask the Lord for guidance,” she said. “That’s what presidents have done throughout history. I’m extremely grateful to have a faith in God. …He’s been very good to our country. It’s important for us to seek his guidance and to pray and to listen to his voice.”

So we have a Republican candidate for president declaring that she will seek the guidance of an imaginary man, and claiming that she can hear the voice of this imaginary man.

When not seeking advice from imaginary people, she plans to defer to her husband in accordance to the Bible:

Michele Bachmann ‘Submissive’ Wife Idea a Matter of Interpretation

Bachmann told a church in Brooklyn Park, Minn., that she hated taxes, but went on to study tax law in order to be “submissive” to her husband.

“My husband said, now you need to go and get a post-doctorate degree in tax law. Tax law, I hate taxes. Why should I go and do something like that? But the Lord says, ‘Be submissive.’ Wives, you are to be submissive to your husbands,” Bachmann told the crowd at the Living Word Christian Center. “Never had a tax course in my background, never had a desire for it, but by faith, I was going to be faithful to what I thought God was calling me to do through my husband, and I finished that course of that study.”

In other words, if elected she would not be a president at all. She would be sloughing off her decision-making role to an imaginary man or her husband.

61 Responses to “The effect of Christianity on presidential candidates”

  1. on 15 Aug 2011 at 9:57 pm 1.Q said …

    “In other words, if elected she would not be a president at all. She would be sloughing off her decision-making role to an imaginary man”

    Sort of like we do now? Well I don’t think it can be any worse than the imaginary man who bows to everyone and thinks we have 57 states.

    The good news is America is catching on. He is now below 40% approval.

  2. on 16 Aug 2011 at 7:01 pm 2.Lou said …

    1.Q said …

    “In other words, if elected she would not be a president at all. She would be sloughing off her decision-making role to an imaginary man”

    “Sort of like we do now?”

    We do now? I don’t refer my decision making to an imaginary man.

    “Well I don’t think it can be any worse than the imaginary man who bows to everyone and thinks we have 57 states.”

    Once again, when all else fails, lie. He doesn’t think nor did he say any such thing.

    “The good news is America is catching on. He is now below 40% approval.”

    Of the last 13 Presidents, all except Kennedy, Eisenhower, and Roosevelt had approval ratings less than 40. G W Bush was the lowest at 25. And he claimed to speak to god and vice-versa.

    But your entire comment is irrelevant to the point that “Perry and Bachmann are as far right as Christians can get – they are Dominionists”

  3. on 16 Aug 2011 at 9:19 pm 3.Lou said …

    1.Q said …

    “Well I don’t think it can be any worse than the imaginary man who bows to everyone and thinks we have 57 states.”

    Here is what Obama (an imaginary man?)said:

    “Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it.”

    Do you honestly think that means he thinks the US has 57 states? Are you stupid enough to believe that he thought he had been to 57 states expect Alaska and Hawaii? If you think that, then it would mean he thought there are 60 states, not 57, you moron.

    He obviously misspoke when he said 57 rather than 47.

  4. on 17 Aug 2011 at 3:34 pm 4.Boilermaker said …

    When commenting on scripture see what it says in hebrew before making comments in English . I read the first “proof” and you are misquoting the bible . It’s common when you don’t really study it or its original text. Even if you don’t believe in it the scientific proof is that when we pray around sick people there is a positive response in all the studies made . This isn’t based on religious belief just studies on the power of prayer. Speaking in tongues isn’t explainable although it is spoke of in the bible.I’m not one to take anyone’s belief away from them but I leave judging to God and even if I didn’t believe in him I wouldn’t judge others . Our own closets are full , work on our own faults and maybe just maybe it will be an example that will be recognized by others .

  5. on 17 Aug 2011 at 6:39 pm 5.Godisamythdealwithit said …

    Sorry to burst your bubble Boilermaker, but those prayer studies have been scientifically proven to be FALSE. Prayer makes no difference whatsoever. Nice try, though.

  6. on 17 Aug 2011 at 6:46 pm 6.Lou said …

    5.Godisamythdealwithit said …

    “Prayer makes no difference whatsoever. Nice try, though.”

    Try? Perhaps you meant lie. They all know prayer doesn’t work. Here’s a new example:

    http://governor.state.tx.us/news/proclamation/16038/

    Note the date of April 21.

    Now read this:

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/14/look-at-ongoing-drought-in-texas/

    Not only is this evidence of the fallacy of prayer, but do you really want President like Perry that reverts to prayer to resolve public problems?

  7. on 17 Aug 2011 at 9:00 pm 7.Green Man said …

    Boilermaker; please cite “all the studies” of prayer you refer to. I’d love to see them.

  8. on 18 Aug 2011 at 2:05 am 8.Lou said …

    7.Green Man said …

    “Boilermaker; please cite “all the studies” of prayer you refer to. I’d love to see them.”

    Any studies he may present, if any are legitimate, are by design, limited to very unremarkable results. For example, to pray for somebody to have a quick and uncomplicated surgery and recovery. There’s never an experiment that proposes a remarkable and unambiguous, statistically definitive prayer for a medical “miracle.” There’s never an experiment wherein a large group of people are asked to pray for an amputee to regrow a leg. This is a normal occurrence for a lizard, but their almighty god won’t do it for a deserving human, even at the behest of solemn, humble prayer, not to mention ample financial donations to the church. Not only is their god inept at answering simple prayers for health, he’s not good at finance, either.

    Even though xtians will accept as proof some half-ass, statistically irrelevant study as described above, they won’t accept the stone-cold reality that prayer doesn’t work as just described.

  9. on 18 Aug 2011 at 4:52 am 9.Severin said …

    4 Boilermarker
    “When commenting on scripture see what it says in hebrew before making comments in English . It’s common when you don’t really study it or its original text.”

    People, throw all your Bibles away and use only original texts!
    Boilermaker says they do not tell you the truth!

    Fuck English! Learn Hebrew!

  10. on 18 Aug 2011 at 5:02 am 10.Severin said …

    Boilermaker

    Many sincere believers pray and get healed.
    Many sincere believers pray and die.
    No atheist pray and many of them get cured and survive.

    What method does god use to select which prayers to respond and which to neglect?
    What is his method to select among sick people, both believers and atheists, who will be cured and survive and who will die?

    Yes, and why he NEVER answers prayers of hungry children, but let them die starving? Millions of them!

    If such a god exists, he should be punished for his hate and intollerance.

  11. on 18 Aug 2011 at 5:15 am 11.Severin said …

    A cross, capricious god, who has all the power but has no clear criteria?

    A god who makes his decisions about life and death by tossing a coin (but never toss it for hungry children and fo amputees!)?

    Well, life is a sort of “tossing of a coin” anyway!
    I don’t need a god for that.

  12. on 18 Aug 2011 at 11:44 am 12.Lou said …

    8.Lou said …

    Green Man, even though Boilermaker claims studies that prove prayer works, get ready for the other theists to respond that god can’t be tested. It’s another well-known theist cop-out.

  13. on 18 Aug 2011 at 1:44 pm 13.Lou said …

    10.Severin said …

    “What method does god use to select which prayers to respond and which to neglect?”

    I only hope that I die in my sleep like my grandfather the airline pilot did, not screaming in terror and praying to god to save them like his passengers back in the cabin did.

  14. on 18 Aug 2011 at 2:40 pm 14.MrQ said …

    Q, #1

    The good news is America is catching on.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html?_r=3
    Check out the link…. Oh, and congrats; indeed it looks like you Yankees are catching on…Tea Party is winding down.

  15. on 18 Aug 2011 at 3:44 pm 15.nony mouse said …

    Lou, “testing god” isn’t the only cop-out.

    Rather than looking at the proposition as yes or no, the theist may tell you the answer is yes, no, or maybe, or then they may also exclaim that you can’t test god anyway. In other words, they have three get-out-of-jail-free cards but only one “collect 200-whatnots”.

    However, if you’re going to exclaim that you can’t test god, then that rather confuses the whole question of if intercessory prayer could ever work.

    At this point, it’s interesting to see the rationalization that goes on to reconcile how the act of prayer affects the actions of an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity who supposedly knows who needs what, has a master plan, and already knows what he is going to do in the future anyway.

    The other point, with reference to amputees, is why are these tests not done against items that are statistically unlikely to occur without supernatural intervention? Why not put faith to the test and allow for the possibility of being proven wrong?

    Here the likely retort, again, is “you mustn’t test the lord” but the real answer is that prayer doesn’t work. Ever.

    There’s something very strange about a god that supposedly answers prayers for actors, actresses, and sports people yet ignores the very real distress of people in need. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/08/02/world/africa/SOMALIA.html

    But then, how could prayer work when you’re asking for the intervention of a non-existent entity?

  16. on 18 Aug 2011 at 3:57 pm 16.Lou said …

    15.nony mouse said …

    “There’s something very strange about a god that supposedly answers prayers for actors, actresses, and sports people yet ignores the very real distress of people in need. http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/08/02/world/africa/SOMALIA.html

    Yes oh yes! Praise god!

    In reality, there’s something strange about people who think that god answers their prayers for insignificant problems, but he doesn’t answer prayers for the real, overwhelming, horrendous problems in the world.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8EYTyACQk

  17. on 18 Aug 2011 at 4:01 pm 17.Lou said …

    16.Lou said …

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E8EYTyACQk

    After you watch the video, check this out:

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=171950776210000&set=pu.171858759552535&type=1&theater

  18. on 18 Aug 2011 at 5:02 pm 18.DPK said …

    Also always found the “can’t test god” rebuttal one of the weakest of any they promulgate regularly. What is a prayer is not a test? If you “shall not test the LORD” then you better not pray, because whether you get what you pray for or not, it’s a test, like it or not. And why on earth would you ask god to change his mind about something when he already knows what is best for you? Kind of presumptuous, no?
    The depth of the delusions they labor under is indeed impressive.

  19. on 18 Aug 2011 at 5:48 pm 19.Lou said …

    18.DPK said …

    “And why on earth would you ask god to change his mind about something when he already knows what is best for you? Kind of presumptuous, no?
    The depth of the delusions they labor under is indeed impressive.”

    Years ago I had a friend whose mother was bedridden and terminally ill. He told me that every night he prayed to god to take his mother and end her suffering? I asked why didn’t he pray for her to be healed. He didn’t have an answer. The most likely truth is that even people who pray know it doesn’t work.

  20. on 18 Aug 2011 at 6:52 pm 20.Horatiio said …

    Mr Q #1

    Whats wrong? You a Libby Dummcrat? LOL! Voted for an incompetent and must change the subject?

    AS if any of us care how the Tea Party is going. Seems their approval is higher than the GOP or DNC!

    Just like our incompetent in DC Q must find anything to blame other than the little man in his mirror. At least BHO Overdrive fresh of his “Under the Bus” tour is on vacation, can’t do much harm there.

    All I know is amateur hour is over and Obama must go back to his lemonade stand.

  21. on 18 Aug 2011 at 7:39 pm 21.MrQ said …

    #20 Hor,
    I am just pointing out an article which folks on this blog might find interesting. Personally, I found it highly amusing that the Tea Party

    is even less popular than much maligned groups like “atheists” and “Muslims.” Interestingly, one group that approaches it in unpopularity is the Christian Right.

    I suppose it’s lucky that you and your christian right fundie buddies aren’t in it to be popular….and I’d say that you’re doing a fine job there, just keep posting.
    Oh yeah…LOL!!

  22. on 18 Aug 2011 at 7:50 pm 22.Horatiio said …

    “is even less popular than much maligned groups like “atheists” and “Muslims.” Interestingly, one group that approaches it in unpopularity is the Christian Right.”

    LOL!! You are a riot. You are laughing at your very own unpopularity!! I love it!!

    Now, again why would anyone here care about the popularity of the Tea Party? Do they have a candidate? Last check our incompetent was blaming them for our debt downgrade. If they are so unpopular how did they do it?

    Since the DNC is closely linked with the socialist party, how is their popularity? Since you are keeping us up to date and all. LOL!!

    No Q-less, we are looking at the boy-wonder in charge, his name is Obama and he has got to go even if I must vote for Nose Buster. We know, you like Obama would like us to look at the other way like 2008 but its not happening.

  23. on 18 Aug 2011 at 8:07 pm 23.Lou said …

    20.Horatiio said …

    “All I know is amateur hour is over and Obama must go back to his lemonade stand.”

    And judging from your usual idiotic comments, happy hour isn’t. You must now go back to your bar stool.

  24. on 18 Aug 2011 at 8:49 pm 24.DPK said …

    Hor… atheists are very much aware that they are among the most hated and vilified subgroups in the country, no surprise. We rank among the ignorant and loving xtians right up there with child molesting priests and lawyers. We’ve got broad shoulders.
    I’m curious though… Obama is a christian and one of the “believers”. He’s on your side and has said so many times. Surely, you aren’t smart enough to sense that he is just paying you dumb deluded xtians lip service just because it is simply not possible, in the USA, to get elected to public office without condescending to the delusional masses? Could it be? Look at the percentages of athiests and agnostics among more highly educated people, and then compare those percentages to congress, who are also largely highly educated people. Why the disparity? Could it be even your own leaders are lying to you about the truth of their beliefs? Every feel like that guy where everybody is in on the joke, except you??? LOL

  25. on 18 Aug 2011 at 9:40 pm 25.Horatiio said …

    “Could it be even your own leaders are lying to you about the truth of their beliefs? Every feel like that guy where everybody is in on the joke, except you???”

    Hmm, well let see. I, Horatiio was one who was warning the masses to look at the record and for the substance of the man. There was zero. Duumycrats, libbys and atheists voted for the man-child so WHO was fooled by the slick talk DPK?

    The Dummycrat liberals! The biggest heist in American history.

    LOL!!

    Do you honestly believe a politician is christian because they say so? LOL!! Please! You are even more gullible than you let on.

  26. on 18 Aug 2011 at 10:01 pm 26.MrQ said …

    #25 Hor:

    Do you honestly believe a politician is christian because they say so? LOL!! Please! You are even more gullible than you let on.

    Pssst, Hor. Try and re-read post #24. Your stupidity is showing. DPK was saying that politicians “fake” belief in a christian god to appease the stupids such as yourself.

    Hor, were you the guy that was also saying to vote for “the shrub”? The “Mission Accomplished” man? The Crusader? Mr nooklear?

    Keep those posts coming. They’re priceless.

  27. on 18 Aug 2011 at 10:40 pm 27.DPK said …

    WHO was fooled by the slick talk DPK?

    Why do you assume I voted for him??? hahaha… you’re so bigoted and transparent, you can’t accept anyone you can’t pigeon hole.
    LOL
    One thing about atheists… they are very good at detecting bullshit.
    D

  28. on 19 Aug 2011 at 12:12 am 28.Biff said …

    “Duumycrats, libbys and atheists voted for the man-child so WHO was fooled by the slick talk DPK?”

    Good one Hor and may I say to all of them “Thank You”. (that was sarcasm)

    “DPK was saying that politicians “fake” belief in a christian god to appease the stupids such as yourself.”

    So where is the proof? For over 20 years Obama faked Christianity not even knowing he would be Prez? And you call Hor stupid? Here is a thought. Maybe if they say they are Christians maybe they really are Christian at least in their view. I doubt Romney became Mormon to help his chances.

    “One thing about atheists… they are very good at detecting bullshit.”

    Right which is why BHO is Prez. We all know atheists are liberal and you voted for BHO. We are very good at detecting BS as well.

    “you’re so bigoted and transparent”

    How is rightly assuming your voted Dem bigoted DPK? I have got to hear that one explained.

  29. on 19 Aug 2011 at 1:16 am 29.DPK said …

    Right which is why BHO is Prez. We all know atheists are liberal and you voted for BHO. We are very good at detecting BS as well.

    First of all, who is BHO? Second of all, you are once again completely wrong. No surprise there. we’re quite used to it by now. Third, who says all atheists are liberals? If you can say anything at all in general about atheists, they mostly very diverse in philosophy, stemming from the fact that we tend to think for ourselves rather than being told what to believe by clergy or dogmatists.

    Biff, once again your ignorance is showing… but keep it up, I’m having a hearty good laugh at your expense. Perhaps I should seek confession.

  30. on 19 Aug 2011 at 1:20 am 30.DPK said …

    And, I don’t know if Biff or Horatiio are americans or not, but I am, and despite my personal political convictions, I do have enough respect for the office of the president and the countless brave men and women who have given their lives for our nation, to at least show a modicum of respect for any person who holds the office… “the man-child ” and BHO? Seriously? You should be ashamed.

  31. on 19 Aug 2011 at 2:33 am 31.Observer said …

    Biff said: “We all know atheists are liberal and you voted for BHO. We are very good at detecting BS as well.”

    You really are baring all in that comment. Are you going to tell me you believe the NeoCons are xtians? Hate to break it to you, but, and I know several of them, they virtually all atheists. Even someone as innocuous as George Will in moments of candor will confess he is not a believer. NeoCons come up will all sorts of blather about “God and Country” but that is for the consumption of the gullible such as Hor, Biff et al. to soothe them as they get their pockets picked.

    As for Obama being a xtian? He is a dreadfully bad president and a fraud. His xtianity no doubt prepared him well for the role of fraud.

  32. on 19 Aug 2011 at 2:34 am 32.Observer said …

    Biff- I forgot to add that when you and your ilk detect bullshit, it usually results in a meal as you consume it like no others.

  33. on 19 Aug 2011 at 1:15 pm 33.Lou said …

    28.Biff said …

    “We all know atheists are liberal and you voted for BHO.”

    Biff, you are an ignorant ass. You know no such thing. The problem with you and your ilk is that you can only comprehend reality unless you label and pigeon-hole everything. In other words, you stereotype everything. There are a number reasons for this, all of them being some type of mental or psychological deficiency.

    I am an atheist. I am liberal about some things and conservative about others. I vote for the person, not the party. In other words, unlike you I use my intelligence to make decisions. And I did not vote for Obama. But neither could I vote for McCain when he demonstrated that he was not fit to be President when he allowed and accepted that nut Palin as his running mate.

    “We are very good at detecting BS as well.”

    No, you obviously are not. That’s kind of like you saying “I am very intelligent” when you obviously aren’t. Believing something is true doesn’t make it true.

  34. on 19 Aug 2011 at 1:33 pm 34.Horatiio said …

    “We all know atheists are liberal and you voted for BHO.”

    I would say 95% are liberal Biff. There is a small fringe of atheist who are actually socially conservative, recognize an ill prepared candidate and would not vote for Obama. The majority no doubt did fall for his silky smooth teleprompter readings.

    “I do have enough respect for the office of the president”

    I do as well why I am insulted that an American idol candidate has hijacked the office. DPK I might actually congratulate your stand but you passed right over your fellow atheist and his insulting characterization of Bush. When you can make this leap, I might take you seriously.

    DPK also informs us our best and brightest are in DC? Would this be Obama, Pelosi and Reid? I know for a fact this is not the case. Being an ideologue wipes out all intelligence.

  35. on 19 Aug 2011 at 1:36 pm 35.Horatiio said …

    I forgot to mention, some atheist just do not cast a vote which is the ultimate act of stupidity and irresponsibility.

  36. on 19 Aug 2011 at 2:01 pm 36.Lou said …

    34.Horatiio said …

    “I would say 95% are liberal Biff.”

    Who cares what you would say? Unless you have any evidence for your claim, it’s meaningless, just like your claim for god. Did you ever find any evidence for god that you want to present? Or do you simply continue to comment here to argue and demonstrate your ignorance?

    “Being an ideologue wipes out all intelligence.”

    As does being religious. The main difference between religion and ideology is their source. But the result is the same. Ideologies and religions ignore reason and rationality in order to make the world confirm to their misconceptions of it. There’s no better example in the US than that of the far-right, evangelical nuts Palin and Perry and their supporters. Conversely, those of us who shun religion use reason and rationality to learn the truth of the world as it is, not as we want it to be. One result of that being that there’s no evidence (or need) for god. If you want to challenge that discovery, then please present your evidence for god or shut-up.

  37. on 19 Aug 2011 at 2:23 pm 37.Lou said …

    35.Horatiio said …

    “I forgot to mention, some atheist just do not cast a vote which is the ultimate act of stupidity and irresponsibility.”

    In his juvenile attempt to discredit atheists, Hor ignores the obvious. The majority of Americans are NOT atheists. The majority of Americans are xtian theists. The 2008 Presidential election voter turnout was less than 2/3. And this amount was considered more than usual because more blacks than usual voted because of Obama. Most national elections have 50% – 60% turnout, while state and local elections have much less than that. So, if we use Hor’s brand of convoluted logic, those who don’t vote are much more likely to be xtian theists performing the “ultimate act of stupidity and irresponsibility.”

  38. on 19 Aug 2011 at 6:50 pm 38.Biff said …

    “There is a small fringe of atheist who are actually socially conservative, recognize an ill prepared candidate and would not vote for Obama.”

    Hor, there is no such thing as 100% in politics but atheist go to the Democratic party at least at the same percentage as blacks go to the DNC with Obama as the candidate.

    I have noticed none of the atheist here want to admit they voted for Obama. Maybe they too have realized their folly. I would say to DPK and Mr Q if they wish to portray Obama as an undercover atheist I will support their theory gleefully.

  39. on 21 Aug 2011 at 2:32 pm 39.Observer said …

    This is a bit off topic, but had this been a xtian church and ministers, there would not be a story…

    http://news.yahoo.com/8-charged-alleged-40m-fla-fortune-telling-scam-203920656.html

    If the trial was held in a state with a higher IQ and lower propensity for supernatural beliefs, Gypsy as Church would be a good defense.

  40. on 22 Aug 2011 at 1:07 am 40.Horatiio said …

    “Hor, there is no such thing as 100% in politics but atheist go to the Democratic party at least at the same percentage as blacks go to the DNC with Obama as the candidate.”

    The 100% is to follow the money.

    I mentioned earlier the great Obama gaff of 57 states but I had forgotten my favorite. Probably the pinnacle of political stupidity. This is when our CIC referred to our corpsman as corpse-men. Typically this would deserved a LOL with many exclamation points but for one who served proudly in our military it is the ultimate in pathetic ignorance.

  41. on 22 Aug 2011 at 3:10 am 41.Lou said …

    40.Horatiio said …

    “I mentioned earlier the great Obama gaff of 57 states but I had forgotten my favorite.”

    You did? Where? Maybe I missed it. Or are you confusing your multiple personalities on this blog?

  42. on 22 Aug 2011 at 6:04 pm 42.Scotty-MB said …

    Wow! I’ve never read such nonsense, even from folks who claim to be “Scientific.” You know, I will pray for you though. Oh, sorry, I guess I should get your name, I’ll look it up in a minute. I wanted to share with you this quote:

    AN ARTIST’S CONCEPT
    “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
    –HERBERT SPENCER

    What this fellow is talking about is _real_ investigation, not some silly “prejudgements” as you are using here to make your case that God is imaginary. You likely would have been one of those who sided with the Pharisees against Jesus saying “Who does this guy think he is – claiming to be God?” There have been many like you throughout history. A few from the 20th Century come to mind, including Josh McDowell, and C.S. Lewis, and myself. I was not really an athiest, but I was certainly not raised with any kind of “Religious” training.

    On the contrary, I am a product of “Dr. Spock.” I, perhaps like you, was raised to be an “Intellectual.” I was raised and taught that evolution is fact. I was taught that if you cannot touch it, see it, hear it, smell it or taste it, then it doesn’t exist. After all, how could something that’s “not there” be real?

    I’m sorry dude, but I’m here to tell you that it is. I was a skeptic. I was also a hopeless drug addict who had no other choice – jail or rehab. On my last night of rehab, I was TERRIFIED of going back on the streets, so I decided to say a prayer. That was Dec. 31, 1982. I had no idea who God was, and certainly no idea who Jesus was, but I prayed to God, the Christian God, and I’ve been sober for almost 29 years now – on the power of that one prayer!

    You may not believe it, but it works. It makes little difference if you do believe it actually. God still believes in you. He knows you, your heart, all your thoughts, the Bible says so in Psalm 139. I challenge you to read that Psalm, I mean really read it and ask yourself if God isn’t real after you read it. Don’t read it with a negative attitude, try to read it with a completely open mind. Try to realize that this “Religion” you are talking about has a history of over 4,000 years of devoted followers. These aren’t lunatics – they’re folks just like you and me, broken down, derelicts, some are intelligent, but we all make mistakes, some worse than others. But that same group of followers, we don’t all of us “hear voices” as you are saying, but we do study our scriptures diligently to try to figure out what God’s will is for our lives, we follow God and try to do as He teaches. When I met Jesus, and found out I was forgiven for all the bad stuff I had done in my life, it was the most freeing thing that ever happened to me in my entire life. It’s exactly as the Bible says: “The truth will set you free!” And it did!

    I say none of this off-handedly or with any kind of malice. I truly pray for you and your soul because you are lost and hurt (somebody hurt you deeply, it shows). And you are bitter. I was there once. Most Christians will tell you they were there once, but we were lost and now we’re found. It’s not mass-hypnosis, or some kind of mind trick or brain-washing. It’s a real power that exists outside of space-time and is able to somehow live inside of us, in a spiritual dimension that we cannot see or touch or hear or even perceive in any way, yet the Kingdom of God is real and it is inside me.

    When folks tell you that Jesus loves you, that is what it means. He knows you and wants you to know Him! He is the creator of the universe and all our physical laws and energy and matter and time, all of it! When Mr. Hubble took Dr. Einstein’s theories to the next level and determined that “Red shift” showed that in fact all galaxies and stars are moving away from each other, he gave us the Big Bang theory. What it proves though is that “God spoke, and there was light.” A singularity that caused the universe to come into existence is more in line with the Bible’s explanation of things than anything else I’ve ever read! And that part of the Bible was written over 3,000 years ago! How does that line up with your modern scientific “Theories?” Moses had no college, there weren’t even “Schools” in those days, and yet somehow, somebody gave him a vision of how the universe came into being. Do you think “men” came up with that themselves? How can that possibly be? Ask yourself and BE HONEST! It cannot be if men are all there is and there is nothing else. Only with a God who communicates with us is this possible. It’s no accident we have the Bible either. It is not a collection of lunatic writings handed down changing from one generation to the next. It is a robust, accurate account of the coming King of the Universe who would reconcile men to God and then the written words of that King, Messiah, our Savior to us as well as letters from Paul and Peter and other early church leaders (Apostles) to help us with our faith.

    There is no “Dominionism” in this world. There are only followers of Jesus Christ, and others who do not follow Him. Jesus didn’t come as an earthly King, rather as a spiritual King. His Kingdom, and He said so, is not of this world. We are not about changing society, we are about Jesus’ business of changing the hearts and lives of people, one at a time, by bringing them into a saving relationship with the Lord of all the Universe.

    I pray you meet Him today.

  43. on 22 Aug 2011 at 9:06 pm 43.Lou said …

    42.Scotty-MB said …

    “What this fellow is talking about is _real_ investigation, not some silly “prejudgements” as you are using here to make your case that God is imaginary.”

    Yet another dim-bulb who has it all backwards. The case is FOR god, not anti-god. It’s up to theists to provide evidence that a god for which there is no evidence exists. Until there’s any such evidence, or even a legitimate reason for god, then god is imaginary.

    We don’t care about your personal experiences. They are only anecdotal evidence for god. Ditto for bible quotes.

  44. on 23 Aug 2011 at 1:23 am 44.Observer said …

    42 Scotty-MB (Manically Barmy?) C.S. Lewis? You must be kidding. I think the strain of being a Catholic amongst a bunch of Protestants ate at him, then the onslaught of Continental Jewish intellectuals pushed him over the edge. He had a rational mind that was just overwhelmed and retreated to the land of Talking Lions (Especially after seeing his buddy Tolkein rake it in on his fantasy novels.) In the appropriately named “Mere Christianity” he is rather straightforward about stating that there is nothing that can be proven as for a God, and so approaches it axiomatically.

    You seem to miss the point that just because something feels good, it is “right”. If that were the case, heroin addiction would be highly recommended; in my circles it is not. While it is easy to quibble with Marx’s remedies for societies woes, it is nigh on impossible to argue with his observations. He nailed this one with “Religion ist das Opium des Volkes.”

  45. on 23 Aug 2011 at 1:45 am 45.Horatiio said …

    Marx’s predictions failed, his ideas failed and his opinion of Christ failed. Maybe that is why he used so many aliases to avoid the authorities.

    Any questions?

    So if something feels right is not right does this conclude that what feels bad is right? This would mean Nose Buster sticking his hand under a flame is right?

    Dunno Buster, I think you are on the opium.

  46. on 23 Aug 2011 at 3:24 pm 46.Lou said …

    41.Lou said …

    40.Horatiio said …

    “I mentioned earlier the great Obama gaff of 57 states but I had forgotten my favorite.”

    “You did? Where? Maybe I missed it. Or are you confusing your multiple personalities on this blog?”

    Hor, I’m waiting for a reply. Where in this thread do you mention the Obama gaff of 57 states?

  47. on 23 Aug 2011 at 6:23 pm 47.Heather said …

    This post breaks my heart. I believe in God. Think what you want of my belief. Please just ponder one thing. If I’m wrong and you’re right, I have nothing to lose. If I’m right and you’re wrong, however, you have EVERYTHING to lose. Why is there so much rage against people believing in the God of the bible? There is no rage shown towards people that believe in Mohammad or Budda. Ask yourself why you hold so much hate towards those of us who believe Jesus Christ is the son of God. Our nation used to be what all other countries strived to be…ironically, this was during the time when God was still respected and honored in our country; and prayer had not been taken out of schools, etc. You might say it is a mere coincidence that our country is now laughed at by other countries and this nation is going down the drain during the time when we’ve removed God from our government altogether, but I do not believe so. You can argue all day long that gravity doesn’t exist but at the end of the day if you jump off a 30 story building, you better hope you are right. If my view is correct then I believe one thing. Every human has instilled in his heart the desire to connect with his creator because we were created that way.. yes created. You might avoid it for many, many years but eventually it will come to surface. I pray that at that time, you will not ignore it and instead will understand that the God you are so very angry with and that you do not believe exists loves you so much and has done everything imaginable to show you. It’s not God’s fault that we lean on our OWN understanding and our OWN feeble minds to prove His existence. Light can’t escape a black hole–which means technically they are invisible, right? So how do scientists know they exist?

  48. on 23 Aug 2011 at 7:48 pm 48.Ben said …

    “Why is there so much rage against people believing in the God of the bible?”

    Jesus said if they hate me they will hate you. Count it all joy when the strike out at you in anger Heather.

  49. on 23 Aug 2011 at 7:50 pm 49.Lou said …

    47.Heather said …

    “prayer had not been taken out of schools, etc.”

    I’m not going to address all the other incorrect points in your comment except this one. Prayer has NOT “been taken out of schools, etc.” You can sit in school or anywhere else and pray your ass off as long as you don’t require everyone else to pray with you. Just sit there and pray to yourself without disturbing those around you, then nobody will care. God can hear your prayer if it isn’t spoken out loud, can’t he?

  50. on 23 Aug 2011 at 7:57 pm 50.Ben said …

    “Probably the pinnacle of political stupidity. This is when our CIC referred to our corpsman as corpse-men.”

    That does rank right up there with the worst presidential screw-ups in history. How can a POTUS be this out of touch?

  51. on 23 Aug 2011 at 8:53 pm 51.Lou said …

    50.Ben said …

    “That does rank right up there with the worst presidential screw-ups in history. How can a POTUS be this out of touch?”

    Ben,

    Do you feel better now for parroting Hor? Do you want a cookie?

  52. on 23 Aug 2011 at 9:46 pm 52.Ben said …

    Lou

    Do you agree that for out POTUS to make such a horrible screw up was irresponsible on his part? Shouldn’t he know how to pronounce corpsman?

    What do you think about it Lou? DPK?

  53. on 23 Aug 2011 at 10:12 pm 53.Lou said …

    52.Ben said …

    “Do you agree that for out POTUS to make such a horrible screw up was irresponsible on his part?”

    I think irresponsible is somewhat extreme, but I more or less agree. So what?

    Shouldn’t he know how to pronounce corpsman?

    Yes, he should.

    Now, how does this relate to far-right, conservative, religious nut candidates like Perry and Bachmann?

    Answer – it doesn’t. You and Hor back-slapping over an irrelevant comment is simply another diversion from your inability to intelligently comment on the topic.

  54. on 23 Aug 2011 at 11:20 pm 54.Burebista said …

    “Now, how does this relate to far-right, conservative, religious nut candidates like Perry and Bachmann?”

    Simple, they would be a huge improvement of this far left liberal nut who spends every dime in the coffer and doesn’t respect the military enough to learn how to pronounce such a simple word.

  55. on 23 Aug 2011 at 11:40 pm 55.Lou said …

    54.Burebista said …

    “Simple, they would be a huge improvement of this far left liberal nut who spends every dime in the coffer and doesn’t respect the military enough to learn how to pronounce such a simple word.”

    That’s only your speculation that “they would be a huge improvement.” You simply don’t know that. Your comment, like Hor’s and Ben’s, is irrelevant to the topic.

    Rather than an insult about Obama, do you actually have a comment relevant to the topic?

    What do you think about a candidate who issues prayer proclamations to pray for rain?

    What do you think about a candidate who said “I was going to be faithful to what I thought God was calling me to do through my husband, and I finished that course of that study?”

    Are you really concerned about the mispronunciation of “corpsman” as compared to what I just described about those two candidates?

  56. on 24 Aug 2011 at 1:40 am 56.Observer said …

    45 Hor- Glad you weigh-in with an inane comment. Marx identified the business cycle and diagnosed the business cycle. Have we risen above that? Another interesting point, in April 1862 he diagnosed how the Southern traitors, “adventurers and idlers”, would be dismantled by the United States Army. Those are pretty good. What is more, Marx was actually a fan of the United States ( the good guys in the North ). Yet again your ignorance is showing. There is a great quote something like there are those who cannot learn, and there are those who chose not to, but the result is the same. Which applies to you? I vote for the former.

  57. on 24 Aug 2011 at 8:43 pm 57.I believe in Him said …

    BoilMaker- idk if your a christian but your right, people take Mark 11:24 that we get what ever we pray for, if it was true id be on mars right now, but god isnt a genie, i could pray for cancer to be gone; it will go WHEN HE WANTS IT TO! How many of you people have actually READ a bible, not just the verse matters, but the text around it changes the meaning for example-

    22 “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23 “Truly[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

    mark 23 says you have to have NO doubt of it, atheists have A HUGE lack of faith in anything like mountians throwing themselves into the sea Even though you might say “ok so your christian why cant you get a mountain to do it”, i dont believe that could happen it takes years probably to trust in God that much
    Love The Lord With All Your Heart

  58. on 29 Aug 2011 at 4:59 pm 58.anti_supernaturalist said …

    ** . . . wrapped in the flag carrying a cross

    The Family is a small cabal within the US Congress run out of a comfortable home on “C” Street in DC. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fellowship_%28Christian_organization%29 Their ideology is clearly laid out at: http://www.americanvision.org/

    Dominionism (“God’s” plan to overthrow the US) may not be ready for prime time; but it can be tested in weaker nation states. The “C” Street Family’s agenda in Uganda represents a test of how to establish theocracy — beginning with legislation which calls for homosexual acts to be punishable by death.

    Sadly, the “C” Street Family cannot be dismissed as “fringe” — there are millions of people in the US who support their aim of overthrowing the Republic — and of bringing us a xianized version of Iran.

    the anti_supernaturalist

  59. on 29 Aug 2011 at 8:28 pm 59.Clausewitz said …

    Let’s assume the worst possible case: Rick Perry is a “stealth Dominionist,” and wants to win the presidency in order to implement it in America. He wins the nomination, then wins the election. Just what the hell will he do?

    Will he, like Robertson promised, only appoint Christians to office? Sorry, the Constitution prohibits any religious tests for public service. And in our lawyer-happy society, there will be a blizzard of lawsuits filed once that pattern starts emerging.

    Next, he wants to start passing laws promoting Christian doctrine and principles. Well, guess what? Presidents don’t get to write laws. He’d need a majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate to get the laws before him to sign.

    But Obama has an advantage — his ideology isn’t considered a “religion,” and therefore doesn’t run up against the protections the Constitution has against the United States becoming, in any way, a theocracy. Toss in the innate hostility for religion that a lot of the left has to begin with, and it’s clear that the “threat of the Dominionists” is nothing more than the latest attempt by the Left demonize their political opponents, to paint them as dangerous, scary extremists that ought to repel all right-thinking, decent Americans, just another variant of how the Tea Partiers are all terrorists and hostage-takers and racists and radicals!

    News flash: there is no “American Taliban.” There never has been and there never will, because there never can be.

  60. on 29 Aug 2011 at 10:47 pm 60.Lou said …

    59.Clausewitz said …

    “Next, he wants to start passing laws promoting Christian doctrine and principles. Well, guess what? Presidents don’t get to write laws. He’d need a majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate to get the laws before him to sign.”

    Tell that to Perry:

    Rick Perry Clueless On Use Of Executive Presidential Powers To Kill Obamacare

    http://news.yahoo.com/rick-perry-clueless-executive-presidential-powers-kill-obamacare-191804863.html

    “But Obama has an advantage — his ideology isn’t considered a “religion,”

    But atheism is, right?!

    “News flash: there is no “American Taliban.” There never has been and there never will, because there never can be.”

    News flash: nowhere in the topic to which you referred or in any response to it is there any discussion that the election of “Dominionists” would allow them to do any of the things you mentioned, Straw-man.

  61. on 10 Feb 2013 at 12:02 am 61.the diet solution said …

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