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Christianity &Islam &Judaism &Science Thomas on 01 Jun 2011 12:43 am

The right way to say grace at dinner

One of the most beautiful replies I’ve ever heard from an atheist

I was out to dinner with some friends, some from the lab I work in and some I didn’t know. Long story short, when the food arrived, someone perked up and asked if we should say grace. I kept my thoughts to myself and decided I would not join, but my friend interjected. (He’s a genius with electronics and one hell of a thinker).

I can’t remember word for word but I’ll paraphrase to the best of my abilities.

“If you think we should be thankful, then I suggest we each thank the hands of the cooks that put together this delicious food on our table. To the farmers that work throughout the year to feed not only their families but their fellow citizens. To the suppliers that work day and night to make sure the food gets to us safely and efficiently. That’s the real miracle we should be thankful for. It’s never made sense to me that people fleetingly thank the real contributors of a meal, and then give all the credit to something that had no part in it.”

There was no argument afterwards, just the nod of heads in the silent acknowledgment that something very wise had been said.

77 Responses to “The right way to say grace at dinner”

  1. on 02 Jun 2011 at 9:08 pm 1.Curmudgeon said …

    Yes, a beautiful prayer that ends with thanking God for the sun, rain, nutrients and all the human beings who utilized His riches.

  2. on 03 Jun 2011 at 1:09 am 2.DPK said …

    1.Curmudgeon said …

    “Yes, a beautiful prayer that ends with thanking God for the sun, rain, nutrients and all the human beings who utilized His riches.”

    If that be the case, why don’t you also thank god for botulism, smallpox, cancer, and dysentery, since he lovingly supplied us with those clever inventions as well?

    In sort, why does your loving god only get credit for the GOOD things and none of the blame for the bad things? Tonight I found out a client of mine, 30 years old and nine months pregnant, was killed yesterday by a “distracted driver” trying to set his gps. Mom and baby were both killed. Why did god make, or allow, that to happen? She wasn’t even a godless bastard, like me.

  3. on 03 Jun 2011 at 2:30 am 3.MrQ said …

    #2 DPK,
    The xtian will always tell you “it was part of the/his plan”. A small problem arises if you buy into “the plan” idea – If you decide to think about it. One has to wonder if free will exists and if prayer is really worth the effort. After all, if everything is “part of a plan” construed by the big G, then we are powerless to stop a busload of xtians from going over the edge of the cliff; even if they all prayed for safe passage home. The xtian will say that they ARE home with jayzus, so prayer works. If the bus made the journey without incident, they’ll say “see, prayer works”.
    It’s difficult to deal with that sort of mindset if one is prone to reason.

  4. on 03 Jun 2011 at 2:46 am 4.DPK said …

    Yes, I understand the rationalizations and self deception needed to maintain faith in a god of contradictions. I just enjoy pointing it out to them and watching them either completely ignore me, or jump into convoluted layers of “explainations”.
    I once read a 30 some page dissertation by some catholic theologian on how during the consecration, the bread and wine are actually physically transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus for consumption, while at the same time maintaining the outward appearance of bread and wine. It was so incredibly ridiculous it was hard to believe any educated person would actually take the time to write it.

  5. on 03 Jun 2011 at 4:37 am 5.Joshua said …

    I’ll have to remember that one. I like it.

  6. on 03 Jun 2011 at 12:58 pm 6.Xenon said …

    Seems simple to me. My family is connected with a large contingent of people of various backgrounds, education and nationalities. We deal with death of a regular basis. A 38 year old young lady fairly close to my family died in her sleep just this past Monday morning.

    Antone who reads the Bible understands this simple doctrine,

    Life belongs to God. Any time you get is at his grace and mercy.

    Death is a certainty. It could happen at any moment. No human being is exempt.

    Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind. But God one day will remove them from our presence.

    The 38 year old woman understood all this and her funeral with 1K in attendance were treated to a celebration of new life not a funeral.

  7. on 03 Jun 2011 at 2:11 pm 7.Lou said …

    6.Xenon said …

    “Seems simple to me.”

    “Antone who reads the Bible understands this simple doctrine,

    Life belongs to God. Any time you get is at his grace and mercy.

    Death is a certainty. It could happen at any moment. No human being is exempt.

    Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind. But God one day will remove them from our presence.”

    Yes it is EXTREMELY SIMPLE – yours is a textbook case of religious delusion.

  8. on 03 Jun 2011 at 2:23 pm 8.MrQ said …

    Xenon:

    Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind. But God one day will remove them from our presence.

    God brought the diseases upon mankind because he was choked that Eve bit into an apple? Is that it? Or were the nasty ones the work of satan?
    I assume that god created diseases since he is responsible for ALL lifeforms including bacteria, viruses, molds, parasites, etc. Help me understand….

  9. on 03 Jun 2011 at 2:56 pm 9.Xenon said …

    “Yes it is EXTREMELY SIMPLE – yours is a textbook case of religious delusion.”

    Really? Could you expound?

    “Help me understand”

    What? The nature of bacteria, viruses and such?

    http://www.bacteriamuseum.org/cms/Food-And-Water-Safety/good-bacteria-in-food.html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21200397

  10. on 03 Jun 2011 at 3:00 pm 10.Xenon said …

    http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/the-difference-between-good-and-bad-mold-542362.html

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18353819/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/yeah-its-parasite-good-way/

    I needed two post in order not to get delayed.

  11. on 03 Jun 2011 at 3:26 pm 11.DPK said …

    6.Xenon said …

    Seems simple to me.

    Well, yes. I’m sure it does seem simple to you if you are just able to accept whatever happens as “the will of god” and think no more about it. But, what kind of god kills a young mother and her unborn child, leaving a 2 year old and a devastated family behind, and allows a mass murdered to die comfortably in his bed at a ripe old age? I know, you just don;t think about it because god has a plan.
    But, there is a far simpler explanation. One that does not require shutting off your brain or trying to rationalize the concept of a loving god with the fact that bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people…. things happen because they happen. There is no benevolent force calling the shots, no one watching the store. I know you don’t want to believe that, but it’s pretty clear to me, and when you look at the world from that point of view, it just makes sense.
    Really, you think a god who holds a grudge against untold generations and will only accept blood sacrifice as restitution sounds like something a modern, enlightened person should accept as fact? Should you be punished because your ancestor, removed by 10.000 generations or more, was tricked by a talking snake? That doesn’t sound the slightest bit ridiculous to you???

  12. on 03 Jun 2011 at 4:24 pm 12.Lou said …

    9.Xenon said …

    “Yes it is EXTREMELY SIMPLE – yours is a textbook case of religious delusion.”

    “Really? Could you expound?”

    What part of “religious delusion” don’t you understand?

    “Help me understand”

    “What? The nature of bacteria, viruses and such?”

    No, dummy. This part – “God brought the diseases upon mankind because he was choked that Eve bit into an apple? Is that it? Or were the nasty ones the work of satan?”

  13. on 03 Jun 2011 at 4:28 pm 13.Lou said …

    10.Xenon said …

    “I needed two post in order not to get delayed.”

    No, you didn’t. They are both irrelevant, like most of what you post.

  14. on 03 Jun 2011 at 4:40 pm 14.MrQ said …

    #9, Xenon

    What? The nature of bacteria, viruses and such?

    Errr, uh, no. I think that I was asking about the divinity of small harmful lifeforms. Like when I asked (in post #8):

    God brought the diseases upon mankind because he was choked that Eve bit into an apple? Is that it?…I assume that god created diseases…

    Xenon, can you slow down and read a little before posting? Take note of where the question marks are placed.

  15. on 03 Jun 2011 at 5:20 pm 15.Lou said …

    14.MrQ said …

    “Xenon, can you slow down and read a little before posting? Take note of where the question marks are placed.”

    No kidding. It’s a wonder he and his ilk are functionally literate, but it partially explains their belief in fairy tales.

  16. on 03 Jun 2011 at 6:04 pm 16.Xenon said …

    14 MrQ

    The divinity of small harmful lifeforms?

    What divinity?

    I just showed you these lifeforms are may times good for mankind. You obviously did not read the post. Yes they are many times harmful. The point?

    Step into a shark tank and see if sharks are harmful. How about snakes, bears and racoons? You have failed to make a point from what I can see.

    “I assume that god created diseases…”

    Do you mean Jehovah? I don’t know what you refer to by god? That could be Apollo or Zeus. Lets work this point together. Where in scripture would you make this assumption of Jehovah? Maybe we can come to a conclusion.

    Lou,

    You are fee to post but I will not respond to a nasty little man like you have proven to be. That is what my ilk practices.

  17. on 03 Jun 2011 at 6:36 pm 17.Lou said …

    16.Xenon said …

    “You are fee to post but I will not respond to a nasty little man like you have proven to be. That is what my ilk practices.”

    Obviously not. Furthermore, what you practice here is evasion and deception.

  18. on 03 Jun 2011 at 7:13 pm 18.MrQ said …

    #16 Xenon:

    I assume that god created diseases…

    Do you mean Jehovah? I don’t know what you refer to by god? That could be Apollo or Zeus.

    They’re all the same to me, fictional. In simpler terms: Did your (Xenon’s) version of god create germs?

    Maybe we can come to a conclusion.

    That’s what I hope for. Did Xenon’s god (whatever that may be) create the bugs as a result of, as you say in #6:

    …the sin of mankind.

    If god created the microscopic, harmful to human lifeforms, then would’nt that mean they are divine? Just like slugs, rats, horses, and humans?

    Where is the confusion?…No need to bring up a long list of irrelevant deities. Just concentrate for a moment on yours.

  19. on 03 Jun 2011 at 7:34 pm 19.Ken Browning said …

    So that lovely guy Yahweh creates the angels, some of whom by using their free will, rebel. Satan creates no nasty bugs or distracting GPS devices. Disappointed with the two-thirds of the angels who still serve Him out of their free will and who have not rebelled, he creates Adam and Eve so that He can get Some Love knowing in advance what’s going to happen: gnashing of teeth; narrow road; lake of fire; Fox TV;, etc, etc. Now Satan goes crazy with the evil microbes, predators and genocidal maniacs. Oops. Don’t talk to the Canaanites about that last one!

  20. on 03 Jun 2011 at 7:57 pm 20.Xenon said …

    “If god created the microscopic, harmful to human lifeforms, then would’nt that mean they are divine?”

    Do you know the definition of divine? I have no idea what you are talking about.

    “No need to bring up a long list of irrelevant deities. Just concentrate for a moment on yours.”

    Good, then spell God’s name correctly and we will be on the same page.

    I’m trying to answer your question but you failed to answer the question. I ask again in reference to 14 to get us started.

    “Where in scripture would you make this assumption of Jehovah? Maybe we can come to a conclusion.”

    If you keep ignoring the parts of my posts you do not like this will go no where.

  21. on 03 Jun 2011 at 8:26 pm 21.MrQ said …

    Xenon,
    My definition for: Divine = Any lifeform “Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity.” Life, in general, is the deity expressing itself. Since god created all life, it is all divine. No? Or, Xenon, are we humans the only divine ones?

    I simply ask did your deity create the bad “bugs” as punishment due to “…the sin of mankind.”?

  22. on 03 Jun 2011 at 8:57 pm 22.Xenon said …

    “Since god created all life, it is all divine. No?”

    Well, with your definition – sure. Personally I use to divine to refer to the deity not His creation.

    “I simply ask did your deity create the bad “bugs” as punishment due to “…the sin of mankind.”?”

    Yes, we know. However I asked a question to get us started. You refuse to get us started -so. Its your call from here.

    Second, why are bugs bad? You called them bad, why is that? Would you call sharks bad?

  23. on 03 Jun 2011 at 9:02 pm 23.DPK said …

    We are told that in the beginning, everything was perfect. No illness, no death, so presumably no malaria, or plague. Man’s body also did not consume itself in cancer, or suffer diabetes, or any other host of illnesses. These only developed after man was cast out of Eden for disobeying god… an act that god, with the benefit of his omniscience, knew would happen before he even started with “Let there be light. So, I think it safe then to assume that god indeed created all manner of suffering, because well, he IS the creator… unless there is another, equally powerful one we don’t know about, we have to assume that god designed, approved, and initiated all the suffering in the world because he was royally pissed at Eve for falling victim to… a talking snake… yup….. but remember…. he LOVES you!
    I’m just glad MY parents didn’t love me that much!

  24. on 03 Jun 2011 at 9:50 pm 24.MrQ said …

    why are bugs bad? You called them bad, why is that? Would you call sharks bad?

    I don’t know WHY they’re bad. If I ingest something (like, say, the latest e. coli O104:H4 super toxic microbe making the rounds in Europe) and it kills me, I would’ve considered it a bad “bug”. Do you suppose it’s something god created to punish Europeans for being too European? Did this latest e. coli strain evolve from something or was it “divinely” engineered?

    As for sharks, they aren’t bad unless one of them rips my leg off. Until then they’re in my good books.

    I asked a question to get us started. You refuse to get us started -so. Its your call from here.

    What, again, was your question to get us started?

  25. on 03 Jun 2011 at 10:12 pm 25.Xenon said …

    Hmm, so if something hurts YOU it is bad? Why not ingest it and let it exist? Pretty surprising come from an atheist. I don’t like Kudzu but don’t call it bad. Yes, microevoution exists and some things evolve can be harmful to ingest. Just as a reminder, stay away from the Clorox this weekend.

    You look up the question if you would like to continue. I have asked enough for MrQ.

  26. on 03 Jun 2011 at 10:37 pm 26.angry said …

    this guys lying! dont listen! god is good! god is real! god knows what this guy is doing and the outlook isnt so great.at number 1: yeah, god wont just CURE cancer! you have to do it. heres what i mean, he will give you an opprotunity! if you dont find it, look harder and pray more! this guy is incorrect! i have nothing wrong with freedom of religion, but jeez! dont try to get other people on the wrong track! Be Faithful! read the bible!

  27. on 03 Jun 2011 at 11:19 pm 27.Ken Browning said …

    angry said … “i have nothing wrong with freedom of religion, but jeez! dont try to get other people on the wrong track! Be Faithful! read the bible!”

    And slander those who disagree with me — “this guys lying!”

  28. on 03 Jun 2011 at 11:58 pm 28.DPK said …

    “yeah, god wont just CURE cancer! you have to do it. heres what i mean, he will give you an opprotunity! if you dont find it, look harder and pray more!”

    And who said religious people are simple minded?

  29. on 04 Jun 2011 at 12:03 am 29.Horatiio said …

    LOL! the atheist are so funny. There case is so bad they must invent posters!!

    Hi angry. Welcome to WWGHA.

  30. on 04 Jun 2011 at 12:03 am 30.MrQ said …

    Xenon

    Hmm, so if something hurts YOU it is bad?

    Not just something, SOMEONE also. If someone pulls a gun and shoots me, they are bad to ME. If a pedophile molests one of my kids then they are also bad people, even if they were divinely created by god.

    Why not ingest it and let it exist?

    Two main reasons. Because I won’t/don’t petition the lord with prayer for cures or miracles and I am too smart to willingly ingest something deadly to prove my faith (in god or modern medicine).

    I don’t like Kudzu but don’t call it bad

    I think you totally miss the boat when someone like me says “that bug is real bad”. In my world it means that the “bug” can figuratively kick your ass or kill you if you catch it.

    Just as a reminder, stay away from the Clorox this weekend.

    Why? Works as an excellent disinfectant around the house. With the bugs my kids bring home from school, it is one of the tools to keep things bug-free.

    I just showed you these lifeforms are may times good for mankind. You obviously did not read the post. Yes they are many times harmful. The point?

    Don’t worry. I know that there are numerous beneficial microbes. Human life would be impossible without them…. they have evolved to have a symbiotic relationship with us. Your point? Are you attempting to prove evolution?

    You claim god creates bugs to punish mankind. So do the Europeans get the newest e. coli microbe, the gays get AIDS, Aztecs got influenza, smallpox, TB, and athlete’s foot? All thanks to god?

  31. on 04 Jun 2011 at 12:47 am 31.Xenon said …

    MrQ

    Bad for you is not the same as bad my friend. Ingesting the Clorox this weekend would be bad for you too. You just admitted it was good.

    Not sure why a shooter is relevant. Bacteria and viruses are doing what they are programmed to do. They do not make decisions. So whatever…

    You just refuse to answer the question I pose to move on. Amazing really…..Yes, God judged man for the sin man brought into the world. Gratefully, this judgement doesn’t go past this life for us who know Christ as Savior.

    Hor,

    I like the smear-merchant Mr Angry. He just shows you that so many atheists are not just in a state of “waiting for evidence”. They have a genuine hatred toward theist.

  32. on 04 Jun 2011 at 1:14 am 32.DPK said …

    “God judged man for the sin man brought into the world.”

    Isn’t that exactly like an automobile engineer blaming the car for polluting the air?
    God designed and created man, and had the power to make us whatever he wanted. Like if the engineer had the capacity to design a non-polluting automobile and chose not to, and then proceeded to blame the automobile for causing pollution.
    I’m sorry, you people just simply don’t make sense with your fairy tales and legends. And why, why, why… would an intelligence so astounding as to be able to create the entire universe and whatever else there is out of it’s sheer will, demand a human sacrifice as the only acceptable form of atonement for “sin”?

  33. on 04 Jun 2011 at 1:22 am 33.MrQ said …

    Xenon

    Ingesting the Clorox this weekend would be bad for you too. You just admitted it was good.

    And where did I do that? Say I was ingesting it? Clorox works great. What I think you are confusing is the Kool-aid which you drink with Clorox that you may think I drink. Or something. Not sure what you originally meant with:

    Just as a reminder, stay away from the Clorox this weekend.

    Yes, God judged man for the sin man brought into the world.

    Wasn’t that or shouldn’t that be god judged Eve and we paid the price. Didn’t Jayzus die on the stick to forgive sin of mankind (and presumably, in so doing, rid the world of bad bugs at the same time)?

  34. on 04 Jun 2011 at 6:15 am 34.Severin said …

    6 Xenon
    “Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind. But God one day will remove them from our presence. “

    1
    God exterminated mankind to stop their sinning, but did nothing; people continued „sinning“ (whatever „sinning“ means).
    God „sacrificed“ his son to –do what? „Pay“ for people’s sins? It was expexted people to learn something from that bloody event, and stop „sinning“, but they did not. They continued „sinning“.
    A stupid, incapable, incompetent god, totally unable to do his job?
    Yes!
    2
    Not „desease“, Xenon! DeseaseS!
    God made an effort to design a few MILLION species of bacteria and viruses, thousands of which are harmfull for human beings.
    Guess what!
    Humans FIGHTED many (maybe most) of them! Most of deseases god „brought“ to humans do NOT do their „job“.
    PEOPLE „remove“ deseases from their presence, no need for god.
    People LIVE, MULTIPLY, and SIN, more and more, in better and better health.
    Just take a look at some statistics!

    If a god exists, he obviously has no influence down here.

  35. on 04 Jun 2011 at 6:27 am 35.Severin said …

    6 Xenon
    “Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind. But God one day will remove them from our presence.”
    16 Xenon
    “Do you mean Jehovah? I don’t know what you refer to by god?”

    What do YOU refer to by god?
    You mentioned god, people answered “god”. If you told JHVH, or Allah, people would refer to JHVH, or Allah, or whatever deity YOU mentioned,beacause people you are debating with have no deities.
    WHAT are YOU talking about?

    Just babbling?

  36. on 04 Jun 2011 at 6:57 am 36.Severin said …

    31 Xenon
    “Yes, God judged man for the sin man brought into the world. Gratefully, this judgement doesn’t go past this life for us who know Christ as Savior.“

    Mao Dzedong was grateful too.

  37. on 04 Jun 2011 at 8:22 am 37.Severin said …

    31 Xenon

    Mao Dzedong, and many other tyrants who kiled and tortured millions, and never knew any Christ “the savior”, lived comfortably for 7, 8 or 9 decades.

    Good life is obviously NOT reserved for those who “know” (whatever it means) your Christ.

    I, myself, and many other people I know (and don’t know) live decent lives without “knowing” Christ.
    Many people who “know” Chirst, live awful lives, or die in terrible conditions.

    What is your point?
    WHAT god DOES for people who “know” him?
    Nothing?
    NOTHING!

  38. on 04 Jun 2011 at 8:29 am 38.Severin said …

    Xenon,

    Afterlife?
    No, thanks!

    If your god intend to behave the same way he does (and did in past) after the “judgment day”, you will live in the same shit you are living today, probably even worse.

    As we can see that most tyrants and lunatics were obviously his favoites in this world, how do you know he will not prefer them “up there”, too, and chose them to rule over you, sheep?
    As uncapable as he is, he will need some help from professionals!
    I am sorry for you!

  39. on 04 Jun 2011 at 11:59 am 39.Biff said …

    “God designed and created man, and had the power to make us whatever he wanted”

    Just like a liberal, they want ccmplete control – robots if you will

    God didn’t create robots (God is not an engineer). He created human beings with free will. This is a difficult concept for liberals to grasp.

    “in so doing, rid the world of bad bugs at the same time)?”

    This guy reasons like my 3 year old. I hope and payer he is not at his mental peak with this bomb.

  40. on 04 Jun 2011 at 1:17 pm 40.MrQ said …

    Biffy

    He created human beings with free will.

    Not true. According to your logic: The big G knows how we are to behave, when we die, and what we believe. All of this in advance of us living our lives. Sounds like he has programmed a robot. Free will is impossible.

    “in so doing, rid the world of bad bugs at the same time)?”
    This guy reasons like my 3 year old. I hope and payer he is not at his mental peak with this bomb.

    Just trying to figure out if god was forgiving “the sin of mankind” by hanging his son out to dry (and trying to keep it real simple for your benefit). Xenon did say god created germs to punish us for sinning. So does it not follow that when sin was forgiven, all the bad bugs (diseases) were eliminated? An event that seems to have occurred twice: the flood and the man on the stick turning zombie episode.

    Biffy are you saying the forgiveness of sin by your god does not include the elimination of the bad bugs?

  41. on 04 Jun 2011 at 4:32 pm 41.Biff said …

    “So does it not follow that when sin was forgiven, all the bad bugs (diseases) were eliminated?”

    No little Q. Your logic is faulty, but you are three it will get better.

    Dude, you are so funny. You can’t be serious?

    Has someone hijacked this dude’s handle? Stop it!

  42. on 04 Jun 2011 at 4:37 pm 42.Observer said …

    #20 Inert Windbag- You want the correct spelling of Hashem? You will need to get some Hebrew text on this website, and still you will not know where the vowels are you foolish xtian. What is more, the “Jehovah” spelling you used for the Abrahamic god is an attempted German transliteration that if you are a native English speaker, particularly if you are the Jehayzuz braying classes, would be even further from the original than the original German. That holds especially within the context of, I believe this is a Leo Beck quote, “German is the second great Semitic language.”

  43. on 04 Jun 2011 at 5:18 pm 43.Observer said …

    40 (the self-defeating) Biff- I can see that no one has hijacked your handle. You are still incapable of writing a sentence not riddled with errors. In your pathetic attempt to be condescending to MrQ you, to the collective delight of the non-xtian crowd here, write

    “No little Q. Your logic is faulty, but you are three it will get better.” to which we must infer “you are zero and will not get better.”

    And Biff, if that does not seem like a logical progression to you, then you should not be surprised that you have always done poorly on intelligence tests.

    I suppose it is a matter of taste, but putting a question mark after a declarative as in

    “Dude, you are so funny. You can’t be serious?”

    while possibly hysterical to the more pedantic grammarians, for me it only generates a smirk, in no way invalidates the previous inference.

  44. on 04 Jun 2011 at 8:26 pm 44.Horatiio said …

    Nose Buster!

    Back from Mambia I see. I do get such a great laugh whenever you grace us with your supercilious yet pedantic presence. I consider it my mission here to crack your stupid posts whenever they arise from the phlegm of WWGHA. You have gained this false sense of importance from your time with the dalits.

    Unfortunately you are still a flint without a spark. Listen, get out of your mom’s basement, get a job then report back to us for further instructions.

    Biff, you are hilarious. Keep up the good work. Unfortunately Mr Q-less is serious.

  45. on 05 Jun 2011 at 12:34 am 45.MrQ said …

    Biffy,

    No little Q. Your logic is faulty, but you are three it will get better.

    Please elaborate…on the faulty logic part…Does divine forgiveness reset the sin clock to zero? Was the “sin of mankind(TM)” forgiven when the big flood occurred and again when stick-man turned into a zombie? Try not to come up with one of Hor’s “LOL(TM)” responses. I am looking at the Biffy just this moment and all I see is a big turd….time to flush.

  46. on 05 Jun 2011 at 1:50 am 46.Horatiio said …

    Let me do it for you…LOL(TM)!!!!

    You need a good theology book, not your comic books Q-less(TM). LOL(TM), where do you come up with this stuff Q-less(TM)??? Nobody has a clue what you are talking bout.

    You and Sev are two peas in a pod. What is your first language?

  47. on 05 Jun 2011 at 3:22 am 47.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    You need a good theology book,

    Too much fictional horror for my taste; would just give me nightmares. I will stick to the facts, thanks anyway.

    where do you come up with this stuff Q-less(TM)

    From reading and struggling to understand the minimalistic posts of yourself, Xenon, The Biffy(TM), and numerous other faith addled participants on this site. Maybe you use a few too many LOLs(TM) and most readers would see that as you being the village idiot(TM). Why is it such a difficult question to answer?

    Nobody has a clue what you are talking bout.

    And who are you speaking for…the congregation? Let me type real slow here so that you can follow along: Xenon(post #6, above) stated:”Death and disease were brought into creation by the sin of mankind.” I asked if the sin counter was reset by god when he flooded the Earth and then a second time when god allowed himself, errr, I mean, his bastard son to be nailed to a cross and put up for public display, leading to the zombie portion of the story. I asked: IF our sin was forgiven, did your god reverse its decision to cast diseases upon mankind for sinning? Or is the wrath of god still upon our heads and his loving nature does not go so far as forgiving Eve for biting an apple which a talking snake told her to do? Kind of sounds silly for grown-ups to even have a conversation like this. It’s something that might be discussed amongst three year olds.

    Over the years I have found over-consumption of things served up on a stick is generally not a good idea; think xtianity, corn dogs, sugary iced treats here.

  48. on 05 Jun 2011 at 7:17 am 48.Severin said …

    Horatio, Xenon, Biff,…

    God made the BF to punish sinners AND, by chosing a family to save, to establish a new society of non-sinners.
    Right?

    After the BF people continued sinning!
    God FAILED!
    He did a crime of epic proportions WITHOUT ACHIEVING ANY GOAL.

    Aren’t you dissapointed?

    God created microorganisms to punish people for their sins.
    People invented medicines and treatments to heal diseases. More and more people live in good health, AND continue sinning.
    God failed again!
    Are you dissapointed?

    If I was told the purpose of the BF and of microorganisms was to stop sinning, i would be very concerned about god’s reasoning: what, the hell, are you doing, I would ask him?
    I ask him: Don’t you see NOTHING you do makes sense? Don’t you see people are sinning whatever you do? Don’t you see you failed with your BF, with killing your son, with microorganisms, with ANYTHING you did?
    NOTHIN you did gave any results!
    PEOPLE ARE STILL SINNING!

    Are you there?
    I don’t think you are.

  49. on 05 Jun 2011 at 12:12 pm 49.Lou said …

    Did gawd create birth defects to punish infant children, parents, or society?

  50. on 05 Jun 2011 at 12:17 pm 50.Lou said …

    44.Horatiio said …

    “I consider it my mission here to crack your stupid posts whenever they arise from the phlegm of WWGHA.”

    No doubt you heard gawd tell you to do that. Even so, when are you starting? You’ve yet to post a rational comment here. You couldn’t crack an egg with a sledge hammer, much less post an intelligent response to the many flaws addressed here about your fairy tale religion.

  51. on 05 Jun 2011 at 12:25 pm 51.Lou said …

    47.MrQ said …

    “Or is the wrath of god still upon our heads and his loving nature does not go so far as forgiving Eve for biting an apple which a talking snake told her to do? Kind of sounds silly for grown-ups to even have a conversation like this. It’s something that might be discussed amongst three year olds.”

    Of course it is. It’s sad and pathetic that the usual groups of morons (Biff, Hor, Xenon, etc.) apparently base their “worldview” upon something that an intelligent child can see through. And that is why you are wasting your time discussing anything with them – their thought process operates on the level of a three year old. They can’t deny their Santa-gawd, or they won’t get receive gifts, but only a lump of coal from Santa-gawd.

  52. on 05 Jun 2011 at 5:54 pm 52.Observer said …

    #44 Dear Hor- I am delighted as always by your incisive wit and outsized intellectualism. I believe you wanted to say Mumbai rather than the plausible sounding Mumbia (sic), and please remember Dalit is a proper noun, so capitalize it. It would appear you are still on the good side of the Man in the Sky since you appear to have escaped from the tornadic wrath your god has been waging on the Bible Belt.

  53. on 05 Jun 2011 at 5:55 pm 53.Observer said …

    #44 I intended to end the previous post with Congratulations and Hallelujah!

  54. on 05 Jun 2011 at 7:10 pm 54.Horatiio said …

    “I believe you wanted to say Mumbai rather than the plausible sounding Mumbia (sic),”

    That it Buster(TM)(capitalized)? A spelling blast? A blast at our poor southern brothers suffering from natural disasters? Classy!!!!

    I picture a little witless old woman marking the spelling errors in her basement. Oh No!!!!!!!I reversed the i and the aaaaaaaaaaa. LOL!!

    Is that it Nose Buster(TM)? Are you the little old woman in the basement marking spelling errors?

    I will end my post with you cannot teach a classless Nose Buster(TM) to be a classy Nose Buster(TM)

  55. on 05 Jun 2011 at 7:36 pm 55.Hell Yeah said …

    “A blast at our poor southern brothers suffering from natural disasters? Classy!!!!”

    Maybe God hates the Bible Belt, so he is giving those areas the natural disasters. LOL. By the way, I am not laughing at the people that were devistated, I am simply laughing at and pointing out the karma to those on this site that think a God is behind everything and that God is also loving.

  56. on 05 Jun 2011 at 10:00 pm 56.Lou said …

    54.Horatiio said …

    “I picture a little witless old woman marking the spelling errors in her basement.”

    No doubt masturbating to that, too.

    Maybe if you concentrated on thinking rather than on “picturing” things (maybe you meant imagining), then you wouldn’t present yourself here as an immature, witless, ignorant little twit.

  57. on 14 Jul 2011 at 2:38 am 57.Jay said …

    When I’m asked to say a blessing at the dinner table, I usually pull out this oldie:

    Father, Son, and Holy Ghost!
    Who eats the fastest gets the most!

  58. on 14 Jul 2011 at 4:16 am 58.Believing Brain said …

    The Believing Brain: Why Science Is the Only Way Out of Belief-Dependent Realism – From Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies — How We Construct Beliefs and Reinforce Them as Truths.
    Check out this book by Michael Shermer:

    Was President Barack Obama born in Hawaii? I find the question so absurd, not to mention possibly racist in its motivation, that when I am confronted with “birthers” who believe otherwise, I find it difficult to even focus on their arguments about the difference between a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth. The reason is because once I formed an opinion on the subject, it became a belief, subject to a host of cognitive biases to ensure its verisimilitude. Am I being irrational? Possibly. In fact, this is how most belief systems work for most of us most of the time.

    We form our beliefs for a variety of subjective, emotional and psychological reasons in the context of environments created by family, friends, colleagues, culture and society at large. After forming our beliefs, we then defend, justify and rationalize them with a host of intellectual reasons, cogent arguments and rational explanations. Beliefs come first; explanations for beliefs follow. In my new book The Believing Brain (Holt, 2011), I call this process, wherein our perceptions about reality are dependent on the beliefs that we hold about it, belief-dependent realism. Reality exists independent of human minds, but our understanding of it depends on the beliefs we hold at any given time.

    I patterned belief-dependent realism after model-dependent realism, presented by physicists Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow in their book The Grand Design (Bantam Books, 2011). There they argue that because no one model is adequate to explain reality, “one cannot be said to be more real than the other.” When these models are coupled to theories, they form entire worldviews.

    Once we form beliefs and make commitments to them, we maintain and reinforce them through a number of powerful cognitive biases that distort our percepts to fit belief concepts. Among them are:

    Anchoring Bias. Relying too heavily on one reference anchor or piece of information when making decisions.

    Authority Bias. Valuing the opinions of an authority, especially in the evaluation of something we know little about.

    Belief Bias. Evaluating the strength of an argument based on the believability of its conclusion.

    Confirmation Bias. Seeking and finding confirming evidence in support of already existing beliefs and ignoring or reinterpreting disconfirming evidence.

    On top of all these biases, there is the in-group bias, in which we place more value on the beliefs of those whom we perceive to be fellow members of our group and less on the beliefs of those from different groups. This is a result of our evolved tribal brains leading us not only to place such value judgment on beliefs but also to demonize and dismiss them as nonsense or evil, or both.

    Belief-dependent realism is driven even deeper by a meta-bias called the bias blind spot, or the tendency to recognize the power of cognitive biases in other people but to be blind to their influence on our own beliefs. Even scientists are not immune, subject to experimenter-expectation bias, or the tendency for observers to notice, select and publish data that agree with their expectations for the outcome of an experiment and to ignore, discard or disbelieve data that do not.

    This dependency on belief and its host of psychological biases is why, in science, we have built-in self-correcting machinery. Strict double-blind controls are required, in which neither the subjects nor the experimenters know the conditions during data collection. Collaboration with colleagues is vital. Results are vetted at conferences and in peer-reviewed journals. Research is replicated in other laboratories. Disconfirming evidence and contradictory interpretations of data are included in the analysis. If you don’t seek data and arguments against your theory, someone else will, usually with great glee and in a public forum. This is why skepticism is a sine qua non of science, the only escape we have from the belief-dependent realism trap created by our believing brains.

  59. on 01 Sep 2011 at 10:41 pm 59.DHRM said …

    you guys should just take mescaline and go outside with nature

  60. on 23 Jul 2012 at 3:56 am 60.K. Johnson Jr said …

    GOD IS GOOD THE DEVIL IS BAD. If its Good (not what a person would like to consider as good, example … fatty foods taste good but will cause heart attacks stroke and several other ailments) then its from God! If it is bad(again not what is considered) then guarantee its the devils deeds.

  61. on 23 Jul 2012 at 1:41 pm 61.sam said …

    @60

    Oh dear… you need to get help or stop skipping the medication.

  62. on 23 Jul 2012 at 6:16 pm 62.Anonymous said …

    61 – I’ve met real people, not just trolls, who actually claim the above to be true.

    They are so desperate to believe in their particular version of a god that they rationalize anything that they see as positive as proof of their god’s existence, anything negative or contradicting their delusion has been “…placed there by Satan to try to sway them from their faith”.

    Similarly, if you ask them why is it that their god isn’t powerful enough to prevent these “bad” actions, they’ll retreat to their mantra of “I was told that the devil would try to get me to question my faith… therefore god.

    It’s quite scary to see otherwise normal people brainwashing themselves into such a sad delusion.

  63. on 23 Jul 2012 at 8:10 pm 63.Truth said …

    I’ve met real people, not just trolls, who actually claim the above to be true.

    They are so fraught for God not to exist they seize on to this false faith everything can and will be elucidated by science. They are so petrified that they will in the end be erroneous that they persuade themselves to trust no creator exists, no deity exists and that the billions who do not buy into their flight of the imagination are delusional.

    It truly is a sad continuation and the predictable reaction will to be to retort with ad homenim attacks and filthy tirades.

  64. on 23 Jul 2012 at 8:58 pm 64.Prime said …

    I love when people like Truth do that because, instead of sounding clever, like they think, the number of fallacies that they have to use to pull off what they say actually just makes them look like idiots… except to other idiots.

    Poisoning the well skills have increased by 2.

  65. on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:35 pm 65.alex said …

    “They are so petrified that they will in the end be erroneous that they persuade themselves to trust no creator exists”

    if i’m so scared, wouldn’t i hedge and bet for your god? if you’re such a wise ass, why not believe in all the gods? instead, you are a coward because you’re convinced you have nothing to lose. you pick your god of redemption who promises virgins and has a foreskin fetish. careful though, even your deluded choice is not the house (earth) favorite.

    y’all been told many times, it’s possible for a god to exist, but not your personal one. therefore, a non-interventionist god is irrelevant and requires no recognition.

  66. on 23 Jul 2012 at 9:56 pm 66.Lou(DFW) said …

    63.Truth wouldn’t know truth if it bit him in the ass said …

    “They are so fraught for God not to exist they seize on to this false faith everything can and will be elucidated by science.”

    First of all, that is nothing but your opinion. I doubt that you ever met anyone like that, and even if you did, it’s such an extremely small population sample that it’s irrelevant.

    Second, you also make the mistaken presumption that rejection of belief in god is based upon (faith in) science – it isn’t. At a young age I rejected belief in god for one simple reason – there’s no evidence for him. My decision had nothing to do with the reason that you fallaciously claim. You’re simply another theist liar who can’t support his own faith, so you must resort to lying about atheists.

    I am not petrified that “in the end [I] be erroneous. I am 100% certain that I’m not wrong about the existence of god or an afterlife.

    “[T]he billions who do not buy into their flight of the imagination are delusional.”

    How many of those billions that you erroneously claim as somehow supporting your position did not or do not now believe in YOUR particular god? So, according to you, EVERYONE who doesn’t believe in YOUR god, including both theists and atheists, is delusional. What’s more likely – that all theists and atheists who don’t believe in YOUR god are delusional or that the disbelief in ALL gods is delusional? There is one common denominator that is shared amongst ALL theists, but not atheists – belief in an imaginary god. But your belief in a particular god is the correct one, even though in fact it’s no different than all of those that you label as being delusional.

  67. on 23 Jul 2012 at 11:32 pm 67.A said …

    “I am 100% certain that I’m not wrong about the existence of god or an afterlife.”

    How old are you Lou? What 18? And you know 100%? Then prove it. You Never Ever, Never Ever prove it! :) You are so precious with your silly claims.

    Please, save the elf and Santa fallacies.

    Truth,

    They also retort with fallacies and the parroting of their priestly authors. By only sticking to material that support their presuppositions, they can retain their level of delusion. It’s Jonestown 2012.

  68. on 23 Jul 2012 at 11:37 pm 68.A said …

    Whats more likely?

    a. Theist who believe in A God, or

    B. Atheist who know 100% there is no God.

    The answer, A obviously!

    A

  69. on 23 Jul 2012 at 11:39 pm 69.Lou(DFW) said …

    67.ASStrophysicist said …

    “How old are you Lou? What 18?”

    There you go, Prime…

    “And you know 100%? Then prove it. You Never Ever, Never Ever prove it!”

    BINGO – maybe you finally got it! My “certainty” about god and heaven exists only in the mind – exactly like your belief in an imaginary god!

  70. on 23 Jul 2012 at 11:50 pm 70.Lou(DFW) said …

    68.ASStrophysicist said …

    “Whats more likely?

    a. Theist who believe in A God, or ”

    So, according to you, believing in the “wrong” god is not the same as not believing in any god? It’s better to believe in “A God” than no god?

    You really are an idiot.

  71. on 24 Jul 2012 at 12:12 am 71.alex said …

    “Theist who believe in A God”

    “A” for allah?

    “B. Atheist who know 100% there is no God.”

    of course, at birth, B is it, until the brainwashing sets in.

  72. on 24 Jul 2012 at 12:32 am 72.alex said …

    “And you know 100%? Then prove it”

    your diversion won’t work. does it matter if it’s 100% or 90%? your turning shit around won’t work. it is your god that needs proof. not somebody’s age as you keep on insisting while fishing for your fluff buddies.

    allah and yahwez are considered mutually exclusive. is it ok to say 100% for sure that both gods cannot exist.

    moronic idiot.

  73. on 24 Jul 2012 at 12:44 am 73.DPK said …

    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion

  74. on 24 Jul 2012 at 1:43 am 74.A said …

    This is to easy. They are so predictable.

    That was for you Truth. I wanted to see the insults fly to fulfill the last part of your post

    I think they might be Muslims now. What a mess.

    A

  75. on 24 Jul 2012 at 3:32 am 75.Lou(DFW) said …

    74.ASStrophysicist said …

    “I wanted to see the insults fly to fulfill the last part of your post”

    You confused an insult with an observation. Noting that you are an idiot is no more insulting than saying that a person who can’t hear is deaf. That’s just the way it is. You’re an idiot, and no amount of your idiotic comments will ever change that.

  76. on 24 Jul 2012 at 4:14 am 76.Prime said …

    I hope A goes on one of those guessing sprees about your age like almost all morons and children do…

    “How old are you, Lou? 18? 19? 20? 21? 22? 23? … 108? 109? 110? … 598? 599? 600? You have to be one of those so when you don’t answer it makes you a delusional liar not me. Checkmate, Lou. I love playing checkers with atheist.”

  77. on 24 Jul 2012 at 2:02 pm 77.Anonymous said …

    Ah, so rather than answer the question and expose his delusion for what it is, “Asstrophysicist” creates another imaginary friend by way of a diversion.

    Hor, do you really not realize that avoiding direct questions and playing silly games and aping everyone else does anything other than make you look foolish?

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