Feed on Posts or Comments 01 July 2016

Christianity Thomas on 08 Apr 2011 12:18 am

A Christian asks, why don’t atheists believe that Jesus existed?

The following thread from Reddit is worth reading:

A question from a Christian

as a Christian I have a lot of beliefs about a guy we call Jesus who was probably named Yeshua and died circa 30CE. I’ve heard that there are people who don’t even think the guy existed in any form. I mean, obviously I don’t expect you guys to think he came back to life or even healed anybody, but I don’t understand why you’d go so far as to say that the guy didn’t exist at all. So… why not?

Here is the top-rated answer:

I am one who doesn’t think Jesus actually existed, and I will try to make my case here. Secondly, there is a subreddit called r/jesusmyth that you should check out.

On to why I don’t think he existed:

First, there is no contemporary evidence what so ever. Not a single shred of documentation exists written in the time frame that mentions this person. Not a single Roman document ordering his death and not a single mention from any historian writing at the time, and 1st century Judea is a very well documented area where we have descriptions of multiple low level preachers claiming to be a messiah. The biographers of Herod never once mention him slaughtering children and the biographers of Pilate never mention him allowing a mob to grant immunity to a barbaric zealot while condemning Jesus, an act that was unprecedented in ancient times.

Second, even the Gospel accounts are demonstrably incompatible and historically inaccurate. In Matthew, Jesus is born during the reign of Herod, who died in 4 BCE, but in Luke, he is born during the Census of Quirinis, which occurred during 4-5 CE. One of those has to be wrong, so we cannot accept either as true. Beyond that, the simple removal of Jesus from the cross is historically inaccurate. Roman crucifiction was used as much as a warning to others as a punishment to the condemned. As such, bodies were not removed from the cross. They were left there to rot as a warning to others to keep in line. There is no way, the Roman authorities would have allowed the condemned to be removed from the cross on the same day of his execution. I know the Bible works in a cover about the bodies needing to be down before Passover, but the Romans wouldn’t have done it.

Third, the earliest writings of Jesus we have come from Saul/Paul, a person who admittedly never met Jesus, and who’s writings never actually refer to Jesus as an actual person who once walked the Earth, they are written to depict Jesus as someone who only existed in the Spirit World.

Fourth, the Gospels were all written at least 40 years after Jesus’ death, so they provide no useful first hand information. We also have no idea who the actual authors were, so we cannot verify anything. Also, the earliest known copies of Mark (the first gospel written) don’t even mention the resurrection, that wasn’t added until later, which brings into question the whole resurrection story. Since the other 3 Gospels are mostly just copied from Mark (with some changes and embellishment) they are just as flawed.

Lastly, the “proofs” that Christians trot of ancient writings about Jesus have been mostly proven to be forgeries (see Josephus).

The situation is obvious. Jesus never existed in reality. He (and everything attributed to him) is a myth, just like the myth of Santa Claus.

Why do Christians believe this myth, especially with so many myth elements displayed so prominently, such as the virgin birth, the miracles and the resurrection from death? This video explains why:

269 Responses to “A Christian asks, why don’t atheists believe that Jesus existed?”

  1. on 15 Apr 2011 at 10:54 pm 1.DPK said …

    Well, Dawkins is an emeritus fellow of New College, Oxford, and was the University of Oxford’s Professor for Public Understanding of Science from 1995 until 2008, so if that’s a high functioning autistic, ok.

    I’d rather be in that company than this guy’s:

    http://thenewgay.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/god-hates-fags1239565001-279×200.jpg

  2. on 16 Apr 2011 at 12:23 am 2.Hell Yeah said …

    Bozo said

    “Those involved in a cult cannot see reason.”

    Boz, I think you have it backwards. Cults have consistant gatherings where they believe in something greater than them and preach about it at the gatherings. Sounds like church to me. But you think people that don’t gather and don’t believe in a higher power are a cult?

  3. on 16 Apr 2011 at 12:36 am 3.Xenon said …

    AR

    I did a search and didn’t realize the amount of research going into atheism and asperger’s syndrome. Here is a good article from Scientific American.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=people-with-aspergers-less-likely-t-2010-05-29

    A very telling quote:

    “The atheists, in contrast, revealed themselves to be reasoning teleologically, but then they rejected those thoughts”

    This is good. It helps me understand their problem much better. However I work with many youth. The youth who go atheist are outcast, unpopular and only claim atheism to be rebellious. The syndrome is not the problem.

  4. on 16 Apr 2011 at 1:26 am 4.DPK said …

    Great article. Did you notice that it attributed the tendency toward “god did it” was a by product of social cognition…. ehem NOT GOD.

    As compared with 34 neurotypical people, those with Asperger’s syndrome were significantly less likely to invoke a teleological response—for example, saying the event was meant to unfold in a particular way or explaining that God had a hand in it. They were more likely to invoke a natural cause (such as blaming an illness on a virus they thought they were exposed to) or to give a descriptive response…

    So, believing you got sick because you were exposed to a virus or bacteria is an “illness” and believing you got sick because god was punishing you is “normal”.

    Give me a break.

    Did you also read:
    These results support the idea that seeing purpose behind life events is a result of our MIND’S FOCUS on social thinking.

    Some experts theorize that certain schizophrenia symptoms (for instance, paranoia) arise in part from a hyperactive sense of social reasoning. “I’d guess that they’d give lots of teleological answers; more than neurotypical people, and certainly far more than people with Asperger’s,” Heywood says.

    So, religious beliefs seem to point you more toward schizophrenia and paranoia…

    That explains a lot. Thanks for sharing.

    Did you ever think that perhaps your teen atheists that are social outcasts are perhaps social outcasts BECAUSE they are atheists? Atheists are the most vilified and hated group in the country.

  5. on 16 Apr 2011 at 12:25 pm 5.Lou said …

    203.Xenon said …

    “However I work with many youth.”

    What moron allows that to happen?

  6. on 16 Apr 2011 at 7:05 pm 6.Truett said …

    #203
    “The atheists, in contrast, revealed themselves to be reasoning teleologically, but then they rejected those thoughts”

    That would explain a lot. When you can look at all the obvious evidence in creation and they still deny God there must be something wrong upstairs.

    Xenon,

    I disagree with the students who struggle for acceptance. The effects of Asperger’s would lead students to have an inability to build relationships and relate to other students.

  7. on 17 Apr 2011 at 3:30 am 7.I am God said …

    I was an Atheist until I realized I was God!

  8. on 17 Apr 2011 at 7:08 am 8.Severin said …

    186 J.R.
    “Good and Bad“

    How GOOOOD was it, felt (thought) the lion eating a gazelle.
    How BAAAAD was it, was the last feeling (thought) of poor gazelle.

    “Good” and “bad” are ambivalent terms.
    There is no absolute good and absolute bad. Wheteher some event is good or bad, depends on the side you observe it from.
    Even a murder is good for a murderer and bad for the victime.
    (I did NOT say “moral”! I said “good”; a murderer either feels “goog” or gets some money, or some other “good” result from his deed).
    Abusing children is good for an abuser and bad for poor child.
    Then, when society eliminates a murderer (abuser), it is good for society, and bad for a murderer (abuser).

    You need a consensus in a society to make rules about what is good and what is bad.
    In animal world, such consensus is done by instincts, which are built by evolution.
    In world of humans, humans are trying to build consensuses that will keep society existing and going forward.

    Gods have nothing to do with “good” and/or “bad”.

  9. on 17 Apr 2011 at 7:23 am 9.Severin said …

    186 J.R.
    “What if the others are right?
    Will we ever know?
    That is where faith comes in.”

    I know perfectly what is right and what is wrong without faith.
    In rare cases I doubt, I have laws and I consult them to see what consesnsus did the society I am living with (or the society I am a guest of) say about what is right and what is wrong in that specific case.
    I do not go to church for advice, I do not pray god to tell me…In most cases I KNOW something is wrong (murdering, raping, abusing children, violating speed limit, beating someone, stealing…).
    In other (very rare) cases I ask people or read laws.
    Guess what: I never failed!

  10. on 17 Apr 2011 at 7:29 am 10.Severin said …

    187 Boz
    “Man has always believed in something bigger than him.“

    And men were always wrong.
    Weren’t people believing in Ra (“something bigger than them”) wrong?

  11. on 17 Apr 2011 at 6:19 pm 11.Severin said …

    187 Boz
    „It may be a psychological disorder after all.“

    It IS a psychological disorder, imposed by evolution.
    Youngs of animals, including youngs of humans (children), have a built in „MUST“, imposed by evolution, to immediatelly, without delay, obey „higher force“ (parents and older members of society), without their own „thinking“ or „reasoning“.
    It is a mechanism of survival: parents, and other older members are experenced in recognizing danger, youngs are not, and to survive, youngs have to obey „higher force“ unconditionally and immediately.
    If a young would not unconditionally and immediately obey a sign of a parent, it could be eaten in seconds.
    The instinct that tells a young „obey unconditionally“ is deeply „built in“ psyhology of youngs.
    It is, however, „nice“ to have such a protection! It replaces responsibility from an individual to the „higher force“ (parents, older members of society). It makes the inidvidual „lazy“, unwilling to take its own responsibility
    Youngs which expect to be protected after some age, to prolongue their “chilhood”, are left from „higher force“ (in animal sicieties) to manage their lives themselves, and typically die in mouths of predators.

    Human youngs typically don’t die. They keep running away from their responsibilities, and keep relaying to „higher force“ their whole lives.

    They become religious.

    It could be said that religions are one of many bad solutions (or uncomplete solutions) evolution brought to human beings.

  12. on 18 Apr 2011 at 5:46 pm 12.Rostam said …

    #203
    “didn’t realize the amount of research going into atheism and asperger’s syndrome.”

    That is very interesting. The atheist tend to pride themselves in their IQs and they typically tend to be socially awkward. There seems to be a very definite trend between Aspergers and Atheism.

  13. on 18 Apr 2011 at 5:53 pm 13.DPK said …

    It is very interesting. I especially was intrigued by the suspected link between religious beliefs and schizophrenia and paranoia.
    Theists tend to be crazy and often make no sense when they speak. They also seem to believe that someone is watching them all the time.
    There seems to be a very definite link between belief in invisible beings and schizophrenia and paranoia.

  14. on 18 Apr 2011 at 7:29 pm 14.Lou said …

    212.Rostam said …

    “That is very interesting. The atheist tend to pride themselves in their IQs and they typically tend to be socially awkward.”

    Nonsense. You’re making things up as you coontunue this discussion.

    “There seems to be a very definite trend between Aspergers and Atheism.”

    A “definite trend?” More nonsense. But there is a definite trend in the lies you post about atheism and Aspergers.

    I wonder if there’s a “definite trend” between suicide bombers and theist Muslims who explode things in the name of God?

  15. on 18 Apr 2011 at 7:30 pm 15.Lou said …

    214.Lou said …

    “You’re making things up as you coontunue this discussion.”

    Correction: continue

  16. on 18 Apr 2011 at 9:38 pm 16.Horatiio said …

    I knew it! I knew atheism had to be tied into some psychological disorder. There was no other explanation. Good link there at #203 Xenon.

  17. on 18 Apr 2011 at 10:24 pm 17.Lou said …

    216.Horatiio said …

    “I knew it! I knew atheism had to be tied into some psychological disorder. There was no other explanation. Good link there at #203 Xenon.”

    You knew no such thing. The most obvious “psychological disorder” displayed here is that of a pathological liar – you.

  18. on 18 Apr 2011 at 10:46 pm 18.DPK said …

    “I knew it! I knew atheism had to be tied into some psychological disorder. There was no other explanation. Good link there at #203 Xenon.”

    It would seem you can add that to a long list of things you “know” that are based completely on bullshit. Man, you are gullible.

    FWIW, I am not “socially awkward”. I am not autistic. And someone who believes in stories like Noah’s ark and Lot’s wife being turned to a pillar of salt telling me I have a mental illness is, well, LOL worthy. If nothing else H, your are always good for a laugh.

    Reminds me of this weekend, my 87 year old mother in law was watching her TV preacher show, and the preacher/con artist is telling some bible story and he says “This story sounds like a fairy tale, or something you might hear around a campfire. But the difference is, THIS story ACTUALLY happened!”

    Apparently that’s enough for a lot of people, so since you are like them, I can understand you’re being easily deluded.

  19. on 19 Apr 2011 at 3:19 pm 19.Truett said …

    I play ball with a guy who is an atheist. I would say he has some of the tendencies you find in Aspergers. He is loud, cocky and makes comments that are socially odd. He has a difficult time connecting. When we are playing ball he does fine but when the game is over he is quite the odd ball.

  20. on 19 Apr 2011 at 4:27 pm 20.Lou said …

    219.Truett said …

    “I play ball with a guy who is an atheist. I would say he has some of the tendencies you find in Aspergers. He is loud, cocky and makes comments that are socially odd. He has a difficult time connecting. When we are playing ball he does fine but when the game is over he is quite the odd ball.”

    Therefore, it must be true that there’s a link between Aspergers and atheism. OK everybody, debate over. Truett’s anecdotal evidence has rendered further discussion moot. Case closed.

    The trend here by theist posters never changes. When they can’t support the argument for theism, they deliberately misrepresent or exaggerate the facts in order to attack atheism.

  21. on 19 Apr 2011 at 4:53 pm 21.DPK said …

    I have a friend who is a born again Christian.
    He has bad teeth and breath.
    That proves Christians have poor oral hygiene.

  22. on 19 Apr 2011 at 4:54 pm 22.DPK said …

    I have a friend who is a born again Christian.
    He has bad teeth and breath.
    That proves Christians have poor oral hygiene.

    These guys must have learned logical reasoning at Liberty University.

  23. on 19 Apr 2011 at 5:12 pm 23.Lou said …

    222.DPK said …

    “I have a friend who is a born again Christian.
    He has bad teeth and breath.
    That proves Christians have poor oral hygiene.”

    All theists believe in god. Therefore, that proves that all theists are stupid. LOL!

  24. on 19 Apr 2011 at 7:17 pm 24.Truett said …

    DPK & Lou

    There is some support forums on the web for atheist and Aspergers. You might want to google and join one. You might find it helpful.

  25. on 19 Apr 2011 at 8:13 pm 25.Lou said …

    224.Truett said …

    “DPK & Lou

    There is some support forums on the web for atheist and Aspergers. You might want to google and join one. You might find it helpful.”

    What I would find to be helpful is for you or any other theists to actually stay on topic, provide any legitimate evidence to support your belief in god, not attack atheism (a simple rejection of your belief), not intentionally misrepresent statements such as Harris’, and to not make idiotic comments such as your #224.

  26. on 20 Apr 2011 at 2:37 am 26.Hell Yeah said …

    It is funny that the theists posting comments such as atheists are delusional and should seek help. That just because the minority of us can see reality, that we are some kind of retarded outcasts. Aren’t you guys the ones that see and feel things that aren’t really there (aka not proven to exist)? Reminds me of those who are wandering in a desert and see water, when it really isn’t there. Maybe that is how the bible was written? Too many people wandering the desert without water and near death, that they wish too much for an afterlife that they tend to believe it no matter what.

  27. on 20 Apr 2011 at 3:21 am 27.Observer said …

    #226 Hell Yeah. That is actually a good insight. The last three sentences are quotable.

  28. on 24 Apr 2011 at 4:29 pm 28.Observer said …

    #57 Johnny Rotten. You are a prime example of the stupidity of many xtians, and why they remain xtians. You refer to my post #56 and are incapable of understanding what it says. Seriously, you demonstrate the mental age of an elementary school student. No wonder the arguments being posted here for the benefit of xtians do not get through.

  29. on 24 Apr 2011 at 5:07 pm 29.Horatiio said …

    Nose Buster!

    Did momma let you out of the basement to play with your Mambian Dalit doll?

    Good for you. You must have been a good boy this week! Play nice.

  30. on 24 Apr 2011 at 7:50 pm 30.Observer said …

    #203 Xenon the inert windbag…

    It is a great article, of course you either do not understand it, or in proper xtian form, chose to lie and misrepresent it.

    First the background: The article is a journalist’s interpretation of a poster session at a academic conference. Xenon is probably unaware that these sessions do not present peer-reviewed research. They present new research that does not quite make into one of the prime sessions. What is important here is that it is not peer-reviewed.

    Nevertheless, the results are interesting. And what they do show is that the default for “normal” in the sense of +/- a few standard deviations, humans is teleological thinking- that things happen for a “reason” in a deterministic sense. This type of reasoning is thought to arise from the brain circuitry that allows most of us to be able to divine the meanings of actions by our fellows and act in ways that does not cause endless battles.

    Ausperger’s syndrome people are effectively defined by inability to pick up on social clues. One interesting point in this research is that the responses of the Ausbergers folk were rational. They did not invoke God or other dieties for mishaps. If they got sick, they were likely to attribute it to a virus or other bug. If they met someone, it was due to chance, such as a confluence of events leading to the meeting. etc.

    They were compared to atheists. Somehow it was discerned that the atheists were thinking teleologically, but would revise there interpretation of events to reflect rational materialistic ideas. Why is this surprising? We evolved from primates. What would be surprising is if we did not harbor this social circuitry, which influenced our thoughts. It is great that many of us, namely of the atheist ilk, can think and behave rationally.

    Perhaps the most interesting thing was what the windbag Xenon omitted. Schizophrenics are on the other end of the spectrum to the Ausberger folks. They, who I think we can all agree are in fact delusional, are the ones most likely to frame events in their lives teleologically. Rationality is not a strong suit. I believe Xenon experiences the world in a very teleological way.

    The most horrifying thing is that Xenon works with young humans. Any possibility other than him being the counter example for youth to how one should live one’s life is a shame. A nearly as useful job for him would be working in a Jesus camp setting to prepare the simpletons to be exploited by their betters.

    Happy Easter. May the Wish-Fulfilling Jewish Zombie make all your dreams come true!

  31. on 24 Apr 2011 at 7:52 pm 31.Observer said …

    Hor- Splendid to read your inspiring words. Yes, she brushed the roaches off of a day old papadam and sent me our for a bit of devil may care twixt the open sewers and leper beggers.

  32. on 24 Apr 2011 at 8:27 pm 32.Ben said …

    “Why is this surprising? We evolved from primates. What would be surprising is if we did not harbor this social circuitry, which influenced our thoughts.”

    Actually O is incorrect here. It is surprising if we involved from primates that we do have such behavior characteristics. That is one of the phenomena that make this study so interesting.

  33. on 26 Apr 2011 at 2:30 pm 33.Julie Klein said …

    You people may think Christians are “delusional”, but I would like to know how it is hurting everyone else? Christians for the most part are good people. I know what you are thinking, “Christians are hippocrits”, right? Well I agree that we all are hippocrits at one time or another regardless of what we believe. We are human, not by any means perfect, not you & especially not me. I for one have seen the hand of God work in my own life. I personally know and work with an atheist. I also know many Christians. The difference between the two types of people (Christians & atheists) is clear. People who don’t know God have no hope and generally are miserable, unhappy, negative people. Say what you want, but it is TRUE!!! Now the Bible teaches us guidelines to live by which tells us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, to be loving & forgiving. I ask, what is so terrible about that? Anyone can take any scripture and twist it to fit their beliefs. Lets say you are right (your not), but lets say you are and there is no Heaven or Hell. I live a fulfilling, loving life, generally thought of by most people as a good person and I die and there is no Heaven. What have I lost? The answer, nothing. Lets say I’m right and I die and go to Heaven. What have I lost? Nothing. What have I gained? Everything!!!!
    Now lets say your wrong and you live a life with no hope, living in anyway that suits you, looking out for number one. Maybe you volunteered and did alot for mankind, but misleading them at the same time. You also may be thought of as generally a good person, but you have no hope, therefore, no peace. Then you die and there is no Heaven, what have you lost? Nothing. But, WHAT IF there really is a Heaven? What have you lost? Everything, condemned to eternity (forever) in Hell, suffering.
    Something to think about isn’t it? God Bless you all, I will be praying for you to find the truth!!
    I am not delusional, I am blessed and forgiven and you can be too.

  34. on 26 Apr 2011 at 4:16 pm 34.Lou said …

    233.Julie Klein said …

    “I am not delusional, I am blessed and forgiven and you can be too.”

    Yet another testimony for delusion.

  35. on 26 Apr 2011 at 5:00 pm 35.DPK said …

    Julie,
    You paint atheists with the same kind of broad brush that you condemn us for using on Christians! You object, rightly so, when we make braid characterizations of religious people, and then you say, “People who don’t know God have no hope and generally are miserable, unhappy, negative people. Say what you want, but it is TRUE!!!” I am not any of those things. This is the kind of cult thinking you have been indoctrinated into.
    Let’s look at you “safer bet to believe” hypothesis.
    First, you must understand that one cannot choose to simply “believe” something because it promises a better outcome. That is not belief. That is no different than saying, “Well, if I believe in Santa Claus, I may get a present. If I don’t believe in Santa, than I definitely won’t get a present. So, I will believe because the chance of getting a present is better than having no chance of getting a present, so what’s the harm?” So, you “decide” to believe in Santa. But you don’t “really” believe it, do you? And your belief, no matter how much you convince yourself that Santa is real, and surround yourself with other people who believe in Santa, and say terrible things about people who don’t believe in Santa… none of that has the slightest bearing on the reality of Santa, does it?
    Now, you also claim that god has revealed himself to you and you are “saved”. God has not revealed himself to me. If he had, than I would naturally believe in him. He hasn’t. And the christian god has also not revealed himself to 2/3rd of the world’s population? Why is that? Why does god give the “gift” of belief to some people and not others? I mean, like Santa, I could go to church and claim to believe in god and Jesus. But it would be a lie.
    Does god want us to lie? Does god want us to pretend to believe when we don’t? Remember, he created us to be the way we are.
    Lastly, if you do believe in a god, you must have some inkling of the level of intelligence that must define a being capable of creating the entire universe and everything in it. Do you think that such an unimaginable intelligence would be so petty as to require worship from the like of us?

  36. on 27 Apr 2011 at 2:25 am 36.Julie Klein said …

    DPK,
    First of all I have not been indoctrinated into any kind of cult and I am not a Christian because it is “safe”. I know it to be the truth, yes I have a personal relation with my Lord & Savior!!! I know without a shadow of a doubt.
    You cannot even compare God and santa claus. I know that Jesus is coming again soon, and yes I am guaranteed eternal life, not possibly!! Again I ask, how does that hurt anybody else? Some athiest talk about how close minded Christians are, well maybe you could see that God has and will reveal himself to you and ALL of the world’s population if you would allow it to happen.
    No God does not want anyone to lie, and yes you are free to believe what you want.
    Lastly, yes God did create EVERYTHING and he created us for companionship.
    Again, God bless you all, I pray that you will find truth and peace.

  37. on 27 Apr 2011 at 3:05 am 37.Lou said …

    236.Julie Klein said …

    “I know it to be the truth, yes I have a personal relation with my Lord & Savior!!! I know without a shadow of a doubt.”

    This is how we know you are delusional. If you have such a “personal relation[ship] with a “Lord & Savior,” then so would everybody else. You’re nothing special. You’re only one of billions of people who live or who have lived on this planet. And the vast majority don’t claim to have any such relationship as yours. What’s more probable – that you are one of the chosen few who have a special relationship with Jesus/God or that you are simply deluded?

    “You cannot even compare God and santa claus.”

    Correct, because Santa Claus is based upon some real people. God is a total myth.

    “I know that Jesus is coming again soon, and yes I am guaranteed eternal life, not possibly!!”

    You don’t know any such thing. You might believe it, but you don’t know it. Ask yourself why you are posting comments here. It’s because you have to reinforce a belief that even you doubt.

    “Again I ask, how does that hurt anybody else?”

    It doesn’t, if you keep it to yourself. So why are you here bothering nonbelievers about your imaginary world?

  38. on 27 Apr 2011 at 3:27 am 38.DPK said …

    Lou is right, you are claiming to “know” things that cannot, by definition, be known, and yet you claim you have not be indoctrinated.
    “Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.”

    You are a textbook example of indoctrination, and part of your indoctrination would be to deny it.

    Why can’t I compare Santa and god? Just because you say I can’t? The analogy is exactly the same. You are the one to propose the idea that it is “safer” to believe than to “not believe” because you have “everything” to gain and nothing to loose. Then you claim that this is not the reason you believe. It was your idea!
    Your personal belief does not hurt anyone, just like believing in Santa does not hurt anyone, except it is a sign of an inability to think rationally, and that inability translates into day to day life, which affects us as a species.
    Let me ask you this… Would you leave your child in the care of someone who believed there was an invisible fire breathing dragon living in their backyard? Probably not, because you would consider that person to be somewhat mentally unbalanced. You would tend to doubt that person’s ability to make proper judgements regarding the care of your child. If the house caught fire, that person might just think the dragon had the hiccups, and trust that the dragon would put the fire out.
    True, most religious people are able to differentiate their “faith” from reality well enough that it doesn’t interfere with their normal functioning, but in many instance religious people DO present a problem for society. When they do things like try to have bible stories taught in schools as “science”. When they try to influence the legal and political process based on what they imagine their “god” wants to happen, and most extremely, when they terrorize and kill people in the name of their religions, it DOES do harm to all of us.

  39. on 27 Apr 2011 at 3:47 am 39.Julie Klein said …

    I don’t believe in killing anyone in God’s name or for any other reason, and I’m pretty sure in the Bible it does not encourage violence.
    You think I’m delusional, I think you are delusional.
    God created the earth and everything in it, including science.
    I read today that a Freedom From Religion Foudation was trying to sue the federal government because they felt like the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional. It was thrown out of court. The appeals court was quoted as saying “Hurt feelings differ from legal injury.” Where I live if one would like to show up and pray, one can. If one does not want to, one does not, again, how is that hurting anyone or pushing anything down anyone elses throat?
    I am a healthcare professional and have had many science classes, which I feel are all the more reason to believe in a higher being. It was not accidental.
    God bless :)

  40. on 27 Apr 2011 at 4:06 am 40.DPK said …

    “I don’t believe in killing anyone in God’s name or for any other reason, and I’m pretty sure in the Bible it does not encourage violence.”

    Have you READ the bible?? I have.
    Seriously? No one who has actually read the bible could possibly make that claim with a straight face. This is the kind of indoctrination you have been subjected to. People have told you that god only condones love and respect, and you refuse to acknowledge that the god of the bible prescribes murder, genocide, infanticide, slavery, and all manor of death and torture. If you don’t want to read the whole thing, just read Leviticus and then come back and tell me that you are “pretty sure the bible does not condone violence.

    If you are going to try and convince people of your opinion, you need to present more than regurgitated sermon speak.

    I didn’t say YOU want to kill people, but you cannot deny that there are many people who do, and have.

    You are a healthcare professional. If you were sick and a doctor told you just pray and you’d be fine, would you accept that as an approved medical treatment? I hope not. That is what I mean by the necessity of compartmentalizing your faith with reality. You believe that god answers prayers, but you know if you have bacterial pneumonia you need antibiotics. A National Day of Prayer is not a problem, but if prayer was the “official” national plan for the budget deficit, that would be a problem, wouldn’t it?

  41. on 27 Apr 2011 at 4:26 am 41.Julie Klein said …

    DPK,
    Have you read the New Testament?

  42. on 27 Apr 2011 at 1:02 pm 42.DPK said …

    Julie:
    I have. It would be pretty foolish of me to dismiss your ideas about god if I hadn’t read the book they are based on. I have read the entire bible. Have you?

  43. on 27 Apr 2011 at 2:05 pm 43.Lou said …

    239.Julie Klein said …

    “I don’t believe in killing anyone in God’s name or for any other reason, and I’m pretty sure in the Bible it does not encourage violence.”

    You obviously are delusional.

    “You think I’m delusional, I think you are delusional.”

    In the context of this discussion, we can’t be delusional. We simply reject your unsubstantiated belief. Who’s delusional – someone who believes in leprechauns or someone who doesn’t?

    “God created….science.”

    “Science” was created by God? I don’t think so. Science is the body of knowledge of nature and the methodology therein. It only exists in the context of conscious thought. Perhaps you meant nature. But let’s assume you’re correct. Then why would God create something that is most responsible rejecting a belief in him?

  44. on 27 Apr 2011 at 3:38 pm 44.DPK said …

    God created science?? God created smallpox, dysentery and cancer too… what’s you’re point?

    Let’s look at the three defining criteria for a delusion:

    certainty (held with absolute conviction)
    incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
    impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

    Now which of us fits the definition?
    Julie, the brainwashing is very strong with you. You aren’t even aware when you are talking utter nonsense, like “the bible does not condone violence.”

  45. on 27 Apr 2011 at 4:56 pm 45.Severin said …

    242 JK
    “Have you read the New Testament?”

    I did, too.

    Let’s first clear an important point:
    Does Bible consist of NT only?
    Who and when declared the OT invalid?

    2nd point:
    Is Jesus god, or not? Is he a part of the trinity?
    can we put: Jesus = god, and god = Jesus?
    Jesus CAN NOT be pardoned for god’s crimes in the OT!
    He WAS THERE! He, PERSONALLY ordered ripping of pregnant women and dashing of children!
    Or, are you trying to SEPARATE trinity, and say Jesus is not its part?
    Are you trying to impose some NEW religion to Christians?

    2nd point:
    WHAT is it said in the NT, that was not known to Australian Aborigines before they ever heard for NT and Jesus?
    Love your neighbor? They knew it, without the NT, and had good relaitons to their neighbors.

    Ah, yes, they certainly did NOT hear this:
    “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
    (Luke 14:26).

  46. on 27 Apr 2011 at 5:48 pm 46.Severin said …

    242 JK
    I suggest you to read the Bible and to try to find traces of love in it.
    I could’nt find a trace!

    The word “love”, itself, appears ONLY connected with god and neighbors.
    When Bible says anything about children, it is ONLY in god’s order to KILL your own disobedient children.

    I can not love god who orders ripping of pregnant women.
    I can not love Jesus, who accept only people who hate everybody and everything, including life itself (ANd orders ripping of pregnant women, as Jesus = god/god = Jesus).
    I can not love my neghbor either, as he is an asshole who beats his dog.
    I can love, and do love, many other people, by my own choice.

    You said you had personal relationship with that monster?

  47. on 27 Apr 2011 at 9:50 pm 47.Xenon said …

    DPK

    Stop wasting people’s time here. Go read the Bible in context and then come back.

    Geez, like arguing with a third grader about Pride and Prejudice.

  48. on 28 Apr 2011 at 12:20 am 48.Lou said …

    247.Xenon said …

    DPK

    “Stop wasting people’s time here. Go read the Bible in context and then come back.”

    If your time is being wasted, then why don’t you leave and post your drivel where some moron appreciates it?

    Why don’t you read the bible in context – a fictional book translated and edited countless times by countless people over a few thousand years, a book not worth the reams of paper and gallons of ink wasted to publish it?

  49. on 28 Apr 2011 at 2:57 am 49.DPK said …

    By “in context” you mean with you, or some other religious idiot telling me what god “really meant” when he says things like:

    “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.”

    This is the inerrant word of god. Please put it in context for us stupid people who would foolishly assume that god intends us to stone to death our “stubborn and rebellious” children.

  50. on 02 May 2011 at 3:39 pm 50.EmoHeart said …

    The fact that “God” said to stone the children is really ironic; considering he supposedly “loves” everyone in exsistence. The fact the “God” hates gays and people who do wrong is intersting since he is one of those bad people, plus he clearly doesn’t love everyone. I heard a bible story where he killed all these people who were gay or committed crime(s) when he is the real evil. He burned down that city.

    God is a lie made by some crazy man
    He’s the reason we’ve had so many wars
    Religion gets us into trouble
    Those of us who stay out of religion have less problems

  51. on 04 May 2011 at 5:53 am 51.Sam said …

    Great – Now I don’t believe in God anymore or anything. Not much point doing anything anymore. Thanks for your help.

  52. on 04 May 2011 at 2:25 pm 52.DPK said …

    How sad for you. You have had the luck to be born a sentient being capable of reason, understanding, contemplation, and love… and that’s not enough for you. You see “no point” in living life unless you can get another one, an eternal one of infinite bliss, after this one is done. How totally self absorbed are you? If you god isn’t real than there is no “point doing anything anymore”! Wow. Sucks to be you, I guess.
    Newsflash. I don’t believe in supernatural superstitious nonsense and I live a happy, full, meaningful life and I appreciate every moment of it. I don’t wallow in self pity and I don’t live in fear of the wrath of some make believe apparition. I’m not alone. You don’t need an invisible friend to be happy or to have meaning in your life. If you do, I’m sorry for you.

  53. on 05 May 2011 at 12:44 am 53.Sam said …

    I guess this isn’t the place for much encouragement. I grew up in a Christian family and my whole life has been about the Christian life. To think that one can just take that culture away and be instantly satisfied is short-sighted.

  54. on 05 May 2011 at 10:37 am 54.Jacob said …

    Sam – I agree that this isn’t the place for encouragement. I suggest that you talk to one of the senior people at your church or a Christian friend that you respect. A blog or Google searches aren’t the right way to make big decisions concerning your faith.

  55. on 05 May 2011 at 1:17 pm 55.Lou said …

    253.Sam said …

    “I guess this isn’t the place for much encouragement.”

    Yes it is. It encourages you to understand life and nature and dispense with imaginary gods and fictional religious philosophy.

    “I grew up in a Christian family and my whole life has been about the Christian life. To think that one can just take that culture away and be instantly satisfied is short-sighted.”

    WRONG! God and religion are a ball and chain that only prevent you from seeing life, nature, and the universe as it really is. “Christian life” is a deception and a fraud.

  56. on 05 May 2011 at 2:46 pm 56.Ben said …

    Sam,

    I disagree. I see the teachings of scripture lived out right before my eyes. Look at Psalm 1 and see if many on this blog do not meet the criteria laid out in that Psalm.

    I am always encouraged when I see God’s Word being so accurate time and time again. I do feel bad for those who are falling under the evil.

  57. on 05 May 2011 at 2:49 pm 57.DPK said …

    Sam,
    Perhaps I misread you post. I thought you were being sarcastic. But perhaps I was wrong? Perhaps you have come to the realization that god does not exist and now feel depressed, like something is “missing”.
    If that’s the case… sorry.
    Don’t know how I can encourage you other than to say, like a drug addict kicking an ingrained habit, you want things to go back to the high you experienced before. Only now you realize that the high was a lie, and could only lead you nowhere. Such are the empty promises and false claims of religions. Take joy in the fact that you have won the cosmic lottery, and have had the good fortune to get a lifetime as a conscious being. As Dawkins said, (paraphrasing) you can enjoy the beauty of the garden without there having to be fairies at the bottom. It may be hard to see right now, but truth is better than lies…. way better.

  58. on 05 May 2011 at 3:19 pm 58.Lou said …

    256.Ben said …

    “I am always encouraged when I see God’s Word being so accurate time and time again.”

    Encouraged = deluded in this case.

    “I do feel bad for those who are falling under the evil.”

    I “feel bad for those who are falling under” ignorance and superstition that is the foundation of religion.

  59. on 05 May 2011 at 3:37 pm 59.DPK said …

    “For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
    but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.”

    Ben… I will ask you once again. Is there any indication that the miracles you interpret as being “the teachings of scripture lived out right before my eyes” never happen to atheists? Do good things happen more frequently to believers vs. non believers? Do bad things happen less frequently to believers vs non-believers? Do people who don’t believe in god ever get cancer remission, or remission for MS?
    Does god ever “answers prayers” in a way that cannot be explained by simple coincidence? For example, do BOTH sides ever win a football game? Do human’s amputated arms or legs ever regenerate? Does anyone ever get cured of ALS, or any of a number of other incurable diseases that people NEVER get better from?

    If you can’t demonstrate any of this, then I will point out again that you are experiencing god’s word with blinders on, only looking at what you want to see, and ignoring everything else.

    I ask you again, you have said that “we” are closed minded. Yet we have given you many possible scenarios where we would admit that god was indeed real. We are open to persuasion. Can you give US even ONE scenario in which you would be convinced that god was imaginary? If you can’t, then it is you who is closed minded.

  60. on 06 May 2011 at 4:10 am 60.Sam said …

    No sarcasm here.

    I am not a particularly well person and although I can see your point as to ‘enjoying the beauty of the garden’, my garden is stuffed and not one I’m particularly thankful for. I’ve always accepted my situation as being God’s will and at least not forever. I agree that this still has built up a fair amount of pity and self absorbtion. Plenty or the people in support groups I have been involved with are happy enough.

    Anyhow…. back to the point.

    I can ignore the arguments both for and against historical proof of Jesus or creation for that matter that I have read here. I don’t have any expertise in these areas so it is just a choice of who you want to believe. My problem is more to do with what happens in day to day life. I don’t see much happening in the way of God interacting with God. One day just follows on the next. The best ‘miracle’ our church has ever comes up with is getting miraculously supplied the correct change to pay a bill. I want something a bit better than that.

    256. Ben – I can’t quite see how Psalm 1 applies. I can’t see the Godly prospering any more than the wicked are perishing. Unless it is trying to say this in an eternal since in which case – wait and see. Other parts of the Bible lament that the wicked are prospering and the Godly aren’t, so which one is right.

    And while we are at it, what is going on with the talking donkey in Numbers. Don’t you feel the least bit squimish when you acknowledge that yes, I believe the donkey was talking.

  61. on 06 May 2011 at 12:55 pm 61.JohnnyP said …

    “I do feel bad for those who are falling under the evil.”

    “Evil”. LOL.

  62. on 21 Jun 2013 at 11:21 pm 62.Frank said …

    E. M. Blaiklock, professor of classics at Auckland University, once said “I claim to be a historian. My approach to classics is historical, and I say to you the evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Christ is better authenticated then most of the facts of ancient history.”

    Virtually all historians of antiquity that Jesus existed, that he was baptized by the man known as St. John the Baptist, and that he was crucified under the reign of the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate. Those that argue that he never existed are about as credible as Holocaust deniers, and cite sources that are as ignorant on the subjects they pontificate as they are.

  63. on 22 Jun 2013 at 1:27 am 63.alex said …

    “Those that argue that he never existed are about as credible as Holocaust deniers…”

    wrong, driveby theist shithead. holocaust have countless witnesses, fotos, etc. your authenticated christ is a joke. get the fuck out of here, dipshit, resusitating a two year old thread.

  64. on 22 Jun 2013 at 2:05 am 64.Swede said …

    Frank,

    Absolutely those who study classical literature know there is no denying Christ and his life.

  65. on 22 Jun 2013 at 2:36 am 65.alex said …

    “Absolutely those who study classical literature know there is no denying Christ and his life.”

    wrong. there are people who studied classical literature and deny the bullshit christ.

    next, sock.

  66. on 09 Mar 2014 at 2:59 pm 66.wizardofoz said …

    There is no such thing as time.
    you have always existed
    why question
    you will alway exist.

  67. on 09 Mar 2014 at 3:08 pm 67.alex said …

    “There is no such thing as time.
    you have always existed
    why question
    you will alway exist.”

    and gays should be allowed to get married?

    go away, pseudo cerebral motherfucker. shit dismissed.

  68. on 09 Mar 2014 at 7:43 pm 68.Miami5O said …

    “I say to you the evidence for the life, death, and resurrection of Christ is better authenticated then most of the facts of ancient history.”

    Denial of Christ is a recent exercise. Atheists, dealing with more and more science pointing to a deity, see the need to deny Christ and minimize the complexity of life.

  69. on 09 Mar 2014 at 8:01 pm 69.alex said …

    “Denial of Christ is a recent exercise. Atheists, dealing with more and more science pointing to a deity, see the need to deny Christ and minimize the complexity of life.”

    where did you get this bullshit from? your mama got cancer and you know she’ll die and you’ll never see her again, so you make up shit?

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