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Christianity &Islam &Judaism Thomas on 17 Mar 2011 12:39 am

How amazing is God’s Forgiveness? Not very.

How amazing is God’s Forgiveness? Not very:

“Think about it – it doesn’t make any sense at all”. Truly.

Nothing about religion makes any sense, as seen here:

Advice God

112 Responses to “How amazing is God’s Forgiveness? Not very.”

  1. on 17 Mar 2011 at 5:12 pm 1.Lou said …

    “Nothing about religion makes any sense…”

    I realized that when I was eleven years old.

  2. on 18 Mar 2011 at 4:21 am 2.TGHO said …

    @1 Lou,

    Took your time, did you. ;)

  3. on 18 Mar 2011 at 5:46 am 3.sonofapreacherman said …

    This is an awesome little video. I love it for its simplicity and hard-hitting truth.

  4. on 18 Mar 2011 at 8:22 pm 4.Anti-Theist said …

    Embarrassingly juvenile; has actually adversely affected my opinion of mankind as a whole.

  5. on 19 Mar 2011 at 2:42 am 5.Tigerboy said …

    I can’t help coming back to these questions: If God is omnipotent, who created the obligation that His son must be sacrificed? God, right?

    Who is demanding the payment of the son? The debt holder and the debt remitter are the same.

    Who created the sinful nature for which payment becomes necessary? If people are created by an omnipotent being to be imperfect and sinful, why are they held responsible for acting in a way that they were created to be?

    It’s all so circular, but it comes down to this:

    If God is all-powerful, how can ANYTHING be blamed on any other being? It is all precisely as God wishes it to be. It can be no other way.

    If anyone OTHER than God controls ANYTHING, then God is not omnipotent.

  6. on 19 Mar 2011 at 7:07 pm 6.Xenon said …

    Ha Ha Ha this was quite funny. Reminds of this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6efxaviopI&feature=related

    Inaccurate, simplistic and silly.

    1.The president is a man, like us not a God.
    2.The president didn’t create & own everything as God did
    3. Jesus died but defeated death the third day and sits at the right hand of the Father. I don’t think the prez’s son did
    4. Jesus voluntarily went to the cross. Even when Peter tried to stop Him and put Peter in his place.

    So while the video is funny, it is completely inaccurate and quite silly.

  7. on 19 Mar 2011 at 8:16 pm 7.Joe said …

    Xenon, this video is a parable. As all parables (including those attributed to Jesus), the story in the parable does not 100% correspond to the situation the parable aims at describing in a metaphorical way. That’s what parables are about.

    This parable raises a serious question: why couldn’t an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent God find a better way to reconcile mankind with himself, why couldn’t he prevent a situation in which this reconciliation was necessary in the first instance, and why does the reconciliation come with a condition if God loves humans unconditionally?

    If you just look at those aspects of the parable that you mention, you will miss the point that the parable is about. (And the same would apply if you used your approach for interpreting Jesus’ parables. This is why one of the most basic theological rules for interpreting the parables of the New Testament is: only interprete those parts of the parable that englighten its main message, it’s “scopus” as the technical term goes.)

  8. on 19 Mar 2011 at 9:24 pm 8.Boz said …

    That poor ancestral fish. He gave his life so that we might one day exist. lol

    The above video is a parable? I don’t think that is the intent. If God exists, his thinking would be so far above ours we would be foolish to question his motives. A man has no rights over another man, but a God would.

    From what I have witnessed about man throughout his history, we have no place questioning any other being.

  9. on 19 Mar 2011 at 10:13 pm 9.Joe said …

    I agree that humans (might) not have the right to question a God’s decisions. But one would expect that an intelligent God who wants everybody to see the truth is able to explain properly why he decided
    - that humans need salvation
    - that this salvation had to be carried out in a specific way
    - that this salvation is conditional on accepting it in a particular way, despite God’s unconditional love for humans.

    The video just makes the point that the entire narrative of salvation indeed needs some more explanation.

  10. on 19 Mar 2011 at 11:33 pm 10.Boz said …

    God requires payment for sin because He is a God of justice (not just love). He cannot do anything contrary to nature. Sin is transgressions and a just God must requirement payment. Attempting to portray God as a God of love and nothing else is far to simplistic. Even human beings are much more complex.

  11. on 20 Mar 2011 at 2:23 am 11.Lou said …

    10.Boz said …

    “Even human beings are much more complex.”

    And being so, they are not so barbaric as damn their children and loved ones to eternal damnation in hell for something so petty as not worshiping them, not to mention all the other cruelty dolled out by your imaginary god as described in the fictional bible.

  12. on 20 Mar 2011 at 3:04 am 12.DPK said …

    He “can’t do anything contrary to nature”?
    You mean like raising people from the dead, parting the sea, turning water into wine, or walking on water??
    What a silly statement to make about an all powerful being who repeatedly acted against nature.
    You said as god of justice he must require payment for sin. But why is he fixated on blood sacrifice as the only acceptable payment? Sounds like a lunatic to me.
    What would you think of a political leader who decided to kill his own son to atone for someone else’s transgression?
    You’d think he was crazy… and you’d be right.

  13. on 20 Mar 2011 at 4:16 am 13.MrQ said …

    Boz

    He is a God of justice (not just love)

    I am sure that’s what Abraham’s son thought just as his father was raising the knife…this is a god of justice, not just love. Wonder how happy the family get togethers were after that episode?

    When did your god grow a dick? It is a He? What if He orders you to kill your neighbour as a test of your faith. Will you carry out the order or commit yourself?

  14. on 20 Mar 2011 at 4:27 am 14.DPK said …

    … and if he is omniscient, why would he need to “test” your faith? Wouldn’t he already know if your faith was real or not?

  15. on 20 Mar 2011 at 4:30 am 15.sonofapreacherman said …

    @ 10.Boz

    Oh Boz, Boz, Boz…circular reasoning will get you nowhere around here. Your response is so absolutely predictable that we’re all at risk of falling asleep. Your god isn’t real. The logic of your explanation is convoluted and completely without basis. You are trapped in a pattern of delusional thinking, and clearly you aren’t clever enough to lure the rest of us into your endless loop of mental masturbation.

  16. on 20 Mar 2011 at 5:22 pm 16.Boz said …

    DPK

    Contrary to HIS nature. Read further.

    Son said,

    ‘Your god isn’t real. ”

    Are you sure? How do you know?

    Mr Q,said

    “Wonder how happy the family get togethers were after that episode?”

    Quite good. Have you read Genesis?

  17. on 20 Mar 2011 at 7:47 pm 17.sonofapreacherman said …

    @ 16.Boz

    You have absolutely zero number of valid ways to prove the existence of your god, Boz, ZERO! The burden of proof does not fall on me. The burden of proof lies with you.

    I could make the statement that winged flying bananas are real and that they control the length of our daylight hours. You might very well come along and say that winged flying bananas are not real and that they have control over nothing because they don’t even exist. How ridiculous it would be for me to demand proof from you to support your statements. The burden of proof for the existence of winged flying bananas and whatever powers they may or may not possess would clearly lie with me. Perhaps I could find a few million other people who would willingly believe in the veracity of my statements about winged bananas, but having a large number of stupid bamboozled followers wouldn’t make my false claims any more true.

    Your god is my flying banana.

  18. on 20 Mar 2011 at 7:58 pm 18.Boz said …

    You have created a false argument. The fact that flying bananas do not exit does not mean God does not exist. You would need to do better than that. We probably both believe the flying banana does not exist.

    I have all the evidence I need physically in creation as outlined in Ps 19 and Romans 1 and all the evidence I need personally. When you experience these two prongs of God existence, one does not questions God’s existence any more than I question the existence of my own mother.

  19. on 20 Mar 2011 at 9:12 pm 19.DPK said …

    I have experienced creation and I have read Genesis, in fact I have read the entire bible, a fact that many Christians can not claim and I question god’s existence, so your assumption that “one does not question” it is false.
    Let me say that in a practical manner, no, no one is 100% certain that god does not exist. I am reasonably certain god does not exist, just as I am reasonably certain Leprechauns do not exist, although I cannot not prove it beyond a doubt.
    Your conclusion, like many of your conclusions, is flawed. Preacherman never claimed that the fact that flying bananas do not exist proves that there is no god. No one can “prove” there is no god because you cannot prove a negative. What he said was YOU are the one making extraordinary claims about the existence of something for which there is not only no evidence, but requires contrary, convoluted, and extreme denial of reality to even consider as real. You have not answered one single logical challenge presented here, other than to rely with mindless drivel and circular reasoning that contradicts it self.
    We are all waiting for you to offer something profound. You remind me of one religious person I had a conversation with recently who said to me, “I have a completely open mind. I am always willing to listen. But, no matter what you say, I will never, ever believe that god does not exist.”
    How’s that for delusional? Claim you are reasonable and open minded and then state nothing will ever change your mind.
    On the other hand… most here ARE open minded and will gladly admit to the existence of a deity if you can PROVE it.
    Unlike religion, we do not start with a conclusion and then look for things to support it while completely ignoring that which does not.

  20. on 20 Mar 2011 at 11:08 pm 20.Lou said …

    18.Boz said …

    “I have all the evidence I need physically in creation as outlined in Ps 19 and Romans 1 and all the evidence I need personally. When you experience these two prongs of God existence, one does not questions God’s existence any more than I question the existence of my own mother.”

    Then why are you here? If you are happy with your maniacal god, then why bother everybody else about it? The world would be a much better and happier place if you and your ilk would do that.

  21. on 20 Mar 2011 at 11:54 pm 21.Observer said …

    Where is Hor? I think I know who that filthy little pimp is. HOR WAYWN?

  22. on 21 Mar 2011 at 1:39 am 22.Boz said …

    Lou

    My original comment was to the thread; responding to the poor reasoning. You responded to me. When you comment to me I expect you would like answer?

    Yes, I am very happy I know God.

  23. on 21 Mar 2011 at 4:55 am 23.Kris said …

    So often, men equate lore with fact…the Bible is a book that was contrived by man, with basis from words of God. Jesus was a prophet…If you are a Christian, you believe him to be the son of God. If you are Muslim, you believe him to be the prophet prior to Muhammad. Do the words that have been recorded, albeit bastardized by mankind, mean less about what is necessary for our survival and faith? Too often, those that wish to cast aside the idea of some “otherly power” forget that it is an “OTHERLY POWER” that has surprised them throughout their life.

    Just something to think about…

  24. on 21 Mar 2011 at 5:00 am 24.MrQ said …

    Boz #16,
    It’s sounds like the god which was so visually available and commanding in the days of old has decided to go into hiding.

    Can you tell me how many times god appeared to and interacted with people in the days of the bible? Let’s get a tally going…I am curious. A&E were the first. Who else?

    Today if you see and talk to a god they lock you up.

  25. on 21 Mar 2011 at 5:10 am 25.sonofapreacherman said …

    …and yet, Boz, you haven’t answered Lou’s question. He asked why you are here. He asked why you are bothering everybody about your god. The answer you gave did not apply to the questions Lou asked. Instead, you gave us more of your typical circle-speak, none of which makes any sense because it never directly addresses the issue at hand. This I find to be typical behavior for most theists.

    For example, if I were to ask a normal person whether or not they liked butter on their bread, I’d expect a yes or no answer. It’s also possible for there to be a conditional response such as, “Yes, I like butter on my bread as long as there will be no jelly.”

    I’m beginning to understand that, if you were asked whether or not you liked butter on your bread, your response, Boz, would likely be something such as, “Bread-and-butter pickles are quite sweet.”

  26. on 21 Mar 2011 at 6:43 am 26.Severin said …

    18 Boz
    “The fact that flying bananas do not exit does not mean God does not exist.”

    How do you know flying bananas do not exist?
    What brought you to that conclusion?

  27. on 21 Mar 2011 at 11:03 am 27.Boz said …

    Sonofthepreacherman,

    I’m here to to see the latest arguments on why God/Jesus/religion is not real.

    I’m not sure why that is important

    I don’t believe in flying bananas because I have not experience this entity in my life and His Word has not been been revealed to me in my life.

  28. on 21 Mar 2011 at 1:45 pm 28.Anti-Theist said …

    “I don’t believe in flying bananas because I have not experience this entity in my life and His Word has not been revealed to me in my life.”

    Your statement proves we as humans can relate to a common sense of disbelief in the supernatural. I would like to submit to you now the reality that I don’t believe in anything supernatural including deities or your god because I have not experienced these entities in my life and their existence has not been revealed to me in my life. If I did believe in flying bananas because I had experiences of those entities in my life and their existence had been revealed to me in my life, I would commit myself. You, on the other hand, ostracize yourself from the company of those not entangled within your extraordinary, supernatural, fantastic worldly views; whisking yourself away to be placed atop a gluttonous pedestal of disconnect and self honoring. This is why Atheists find you repulsive. If you just coddled your beliefs in private, like I understand your bible instructs, we could probably enjoy each other’s company.

  29. on 21 Mar 2011 at 4:30 pm 29.Lou said …

    27.Boz said …

    “I don’t believe in flying bananas because I have not experience this entity in my life and His Word has not been been revealed to me in my life.”

    You weren’t asked if you believed in flying bananas. You were asked “How do you know flying bananas do not exist?”

  30. on 21 Mar 2011 at 6:56 pm 30.Dutch said …

    “You, on the other hand, ostracize yourself from the company of those not entangled within your extraordinary,”

    What is that like 5% or the population? Look Atheists, you are small percentage of the population. The normal people believe in God. You guys believe in who knows what but it is not reality. I know treating the normal as abnormal helps you cope but you really need to check yourself.

    “You weren’t asked if you believed in flying bananas. You were asked “How do you know flying bananas do not exist?”

    Lou try reading his post. It was quite clear why he doesn’t believe in your banana.

  31. on 21 Mar 2011 at 7:16 pm 31.Anti-Theist said …

    Your majority / normal once demanded that blacks drink from separate fountains. Listening to you is akin to reliving those shameful bigoted times.

  32. on 21 Mar 2011 at 7:28 pm 32.MrQ said …

    Duthcie #30
    Do you think that:

    “You, on the other hand, ostracize yourself from the company of those not entangled within your extraordinary,”

    applies strictly to atheists? When I read that I see an example of christians (or other religiously inclined folk) who think that their particular brand of belief sets them apart from not only atheists, but also from other believers. For example: A christian would think that it’s perfectly logical to worship a zombie, but the christian would say it’s delusional to follow those Norsemen freaks with their Valkyries and Odin’s Great Hall. The atheist simply thinks it’s ALL delusional.

    But, hey, maybe I got it all wrong myself.

  33. on 21 Mar 2011 at 7:51 pm 33.Dutch said …

    AT

    You ilk thinks it is OK to murder baby girls in China. Care to joust? Actually, it was Christians who got the 1964 civil rights bill passed, not atheist. Actually, your ilk has accomplished very little.

    A quote:

    “A christian would think that it’s perfectly logical to worship a zombie, but the christian would say it’s delusional to follow those Norsemen freaks”

    Lol, what? Aren’t you the guys who believe the universe was created by nothing by nobody?

  34. on 21 Mar 2011 at 8:08 pm 34.MrQ said …

    Dutchie,
    Personally, I think it’s as likely that god gave rise to the universe as a little pink unicorn waving a magic glitter wand in it’s mouth.

    What’s wrong with saying, “I don’t know, let’s apply some logic and figure it out” Your god of the gaps is a weak argument for belief… but, hey, if it works for you then run with it and be happy Dutch.

  35. on 21 Mar 2011 at 8:37 pm 35.Anti-Theist said …

    I claim no affiliations, making your claims tying me to murdered babies in china quite slanderous. My premise was that the majority is not inherently just, as it remains; despite your filthy bible, and your curse of Ham bringing slavery to this country in the first place. I know of the Quakers; they are an example of a constant trend which spells the evaporation of Christianity. An guard.

  36. on 21 Mar 2011 at 8:45 pm 36.Lou said …

    30.Dutch said …

    “Lou try reading his post. It was quite clear why he doesn’t believe in your banana.”

    I did read his post. Allow me to clarify it for you. He said he doesn’t believe in flying bananas. Now, the question is how does he know that they don’t exist, not why he doesn’t believe in them.

  37. on 21 Mar 2011 at 8:52 pm 37.Lou said …

    30.Dutch said …

    “What is that like 5% or the population? Look Atheists, you are small percentage of the population.”

    It’s actually much more than that, but it doesn’t matter.

    “The normal people believe in God.”

    Which “normal people” and which “God?”

    “You guys believe in who knows what but it is not reality.”

    Atheists don’t believe in “who knows what.” Belief in “who knows what” is more or less the definition of religion.

    “I know treating the normal as abnormal helps you cope but you really need to check yourself.”

    You are greatly misinformed. Atheism isn’t a coping mechanism any more than disbelief in Santa Clause is.

  38. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:06 pm 38.sonofapreacherman said …

    “You guys believe in who knows what but it is not reality. I know treating the normal as abnormal helps you cope but you really need to check yourself.”

    It sounds to me, Dutch, like you are the one who needs to check your snitty self. We believe in sound principles of science. We believe in irrefutable evidence. We believe in proven facts. We believe in reality.

    We don’t believe in invisible, silent, imaginary beings based solely on fables and legends which have been passed down from person to person for thousands upon thousands of years. We don’t believe in the tooth fairy. We don’t believe in Chupacabra. We don’t believe in Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer.

    What’s even more important is that we don’t direct our lives, form our morals or make important decisions, choices and policies based on the supposed, heresay desires of such invisible and silent imaginary beings whose very existence or powers have never been scientifically documented nor proven.

    Now of course if Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer suddenly begins galloping across the skies of earth every day, insistently writing instructions upon the clouds for all mankind to behold, we might have to take into consideration from whence he came, what it is that he is demanding of us, and whether or not he is omnipotent. We atheists, however, aren’t going to jump on the proverbial sleigh and start worshipping Santa’s 9th reindeer just because Robert L. May wrote about him in a Montgomery Ward booklet published in 1939. Rudolph will first need to present himself and prove that he is a deity worthy of our devotion. The same can be said for other supposed creatures and/or deities as well, including Godzilla, Jesus the Blood Spotted Cruciform, the Great Flying Banana, and the Wicked Witch of the West.

  39. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:06 pm 39.Dutch said …

    Mr Q,

    Slander, on a blog?

    So explain the difference between “Your Ilk” and the term you used “Your majority” I think you implying I keep blacks from using he water fountain?

    Suddenly, it is bad to be a majority? The majority think murder, stealing and bigotry is wrong. I know, being a great minority you must attempt to pull out all the stops to appear to be the norm.

    I would have greater respect if atheist didn’t attempt to portray theist as delusional or abnormal but since you show no respect I feel a need to show you your real standing. Your leaders like Hitch, Dawkins and Harris are foul mouthed bitter bigots so maybe that is why your ilk follow the same path.

    I have acquaintances with Hindus, Muslims, RCs and Mormons and at least they are respectful of other beliefs.

  40. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:08 pm 40.Dutch said …

    “Now, the question is how does he know that they don’t exist, not why he doesn’t believe in them.”

    How do I know? The same way you do.

  41. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:14 pm 41.Lou said …

    33.Dutch said

    “You ilk thinks it is OK to murder baby girls in China. Care to joust?”

    Where did that come from?!

    “Actually, it was Christians who got the 1964 civil rights bill passed, not atheist.”

    The point being? Using your convoluted logic, it must have been atheists who “demanded that blacks drink from separate fountains.”

    On the one hand you rant “Look Atheists, you are small percentage of the population.” On the other hand you gloat “Actually, your ilk has accomplished very little.” Wouldn’t it stand to reason that, all other things being equal, a small a minority can’t accomplish as much as the majority if the majority’s intention is to force their delusional religious beliefs upon the those who don’t believe as they do, and who attempt to ostracize them from civilization?

    And I’m curious to know, do you personally consider Catholics to be Christians?

  42. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:20 pm 42.sonofapreacherman said …

    “I have acquaintances with Hindus, Muslims, RCs and Mormons and at least they are respectful of other beliefs.”

    Yeah, Dutch, I’ve been meaning to attend the weekly Muslim-Mormon-RC prayer breakfast here in town for quite some time now, but I haven’t quite figured out what I should wear while in attendance. Bill Donohue is scheduled to speak this coming weekend followed by Anwar al-Awlaki and Warren Jeffs. You should come with me and experience all that love and respect.

  43. on 21 Mar 2011 at 9:21 pm 43.Lou said …

    40.Dutch said …

    “Now, the question is how does he know that they don’t exist, not why he doesn’t believe in them.”

    “How do I know? The same way you do.”

    I didn’t ask YOU. I asked HIM. Sheesh!

    I might as well give-up and draw a picture for you. He doesn’t believe in flying bananas. Atheists don’t believe in god. He requires proof or evidence from atheists that god doesn’t exist. Where is his proof or evidence that flying bananas don’t exist?

  44. on 21 Mar 2011 at 10:30 pm 44.Horatiio said …

    Lou

    ‘He requires proof or evidence from atheists that god doesn’t exist.”

    Simple logic Lou. Here we are on a blog that claims God does not exist. Preacherboy claims it and you claim it. Not one time have Iseen one sliver of proof.

    If you must sell the idea, you need some facts. Fact is man has a long history of belief in God. Most of our greatest scientist and most of our founding fathers. The idea is not a banana, FSM or a fairy. It is the God of Christianity that has this history. It is up to you to sell the idea.

    Now I will watch while you ignore this very important point and attempt to sell the banana story again. Make a unprovable false argument won’t get it done.

  45. on 22 Mar 2011 at 1:39 am 45.MrQ said …

    Horatio,
    As you’ve found out with Francis Collins, the god of the scientists does not trivialize or reject the Theory of Evolution. There are no HD motorcycles washing up on their beaches, no IDiotic questions about “macro-evolution” (whatever that is).

    Now we can both agree that the gap you’re left with is a question on how life began some 4 billion years ago.

  46. on 22 Mar 2011 at 2:33 am 46.DPK said …

    “Fact is man has a long history of belief in God.”
    What a ridiculous statement. Man has a long history of belief that the earth is flat and at the center of the universe. That doesn’t make it true in any way shape or form.
    Truth is not democratic and cares not a bit about what the majority of people believe.
    300 years ago most people on earth, and yes, it is supported in the bible, believed slavery was perfectly ok. Were they correct because they were in the majority?

  47. on 22 Mar 2011 at 3:10 am 47.Horatiio said …

    “Man has a long history of belief that the earth is flat and at the center of the universe.”

    Actually not true but for arguments sakes, let say it is true. We have proven both false. The belief did not stop just because somebody didn’t like the fact the earth was flat. Now, will you being doing this for God? See #44

  48. on 22 Mar 2011 at 3:48 am 48.DPK said …

    No, the belief did not stop because “somebody didn’t like that the earth was flat.” The belief stopped (for the most part anyway… we still have flat earthers) because the overwhelming majority of evidence showed that the earth was round.
    Now, if you choose to ignore all the evidence that supports the idea of a round earth, and instead choose only to consider evidence that the earth is flat, of course you will believe the earth is flat. I mean, all you have to do is look at the plains of Kansas and it’s pretty obvious, right?
    Your point was that because atheists are in the minority, that supports the idea that theists are correct. That’s bull. In ancient Rome the vast majority believed that the god Jupiter was real. They were wrong… I could go one and on, but won’t belabor the point.
    It would be fruitless to argue with someone who says “The Roman god Jupiter is real. Prove he is not.” That doesn’t make him real anymore than it makes the earth flat.
    I also believe that most theists are in fact “theists of convenience.” They “believe” because it is socially acceptable to do so. But they are very good at compartmentalizing their “beliefs” with reality.
    Tell me this.. when you child is very sick, do you take him to a doctor, or a priest?” And if you don’t trust in god alone to make him better… why not?

  49. on 22 Mar 2011 at 4:51 am 49.Lou said …

    44.Horatiio said …

    “Simple logic Lou.”

    You write that short sentence, then ignore it. You don’t seem to understand the double-standard of “proof” that he set.

    “Here we are on a blog that claims God does not exist. Preacherboy claims it and you claim it. Not one time have Iseen one sliver of proof.”

    Nor will you ever. This blog isn’t simply about claiming that god doesn’t exist or about providing proof that god doesn’t exist, because that’s not possible. You seem to miss the obvious point – this blog seeks “proof” that god exists, it examines why people have a delusional belief in a super natural god, and it refutes the so-called evidence of god that is forced down our throats and those of children who are brainwashed by religion.

    “If you must sell the idea, you need some facts. Fact is man has a long history of belief in God. Most of our greatest scientist and most of our founding fathers. The idea is not a banana, FSM or a fairy. It is the God of Christianity that has this history.”

    The only thing those facts are evidence of is that some people believe in god, not that god exists. No atheists here deny that. Why are you stating the obvious?

    “It is up to you to sell the idea.”

    No, it isn’t. The simple reason being that the disbelief in a super natural being is not an “idea.” God is an idea. Not god is not an idea. For example, Leprechauns are an idea. It’s not as if somebody suddenly thought one day “I have an idea, there are not Leprechauns. There are not fairies who have a pot of gold hidden at the end of the rainbow.” NO, the idea was that there ARE Leprechauns who have a pot of gold hidden at the end of the rainbow. There was no idea that there wasn’t a god who didn’t have a son of virgin birth who didn’t died on the cross and wasn’t resurrected. So you see, it’s up to you sell the idea of god, because not god is not an idea.

    “Now I will watch while you ignore this very important point…”

    That it is the God of Christianity that has this history? That’s your point? Really? That’s it?! Nobody has to be very educated or intelligent to understand that there is a long history of belief in the Christian God. So what? There’s a long history of belief in non-Christian gods, too. That’s only evidence that people believe in non-Christian gods, not that those non-Christian gods existed.

    “and attempt to sell the banana story again. Make a unprovable false argument won’t get it done.”

    As I already explained, atheists are not selling any story, not even a banana story. The banana story is simply an analogy of the god story, and obviously atheists aren’t selling that.

  50. on 22 Mar 2011 at 5:53 am 50.sonofapreacherman said …

    DPK and Lou: I appreciate the logic and clarity of your arguments.

  51. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:24 am 51.Severin said …

    27 Boz
    “I’m here to to see the latest arguments on why God/Jesus/religion is not real.”

    And I am still waiting to hear why flying bananas are not real.

    You are obviously unable to give any rational answer.

  52. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:36 am 52.Severin said …

    30 Dutch
    ” The normal people believe in God. You guys believe in who knows what but it is not reality.”

    Normal people (all 100%, minus few) believed in flat earth, once upon a time.
    Normal people believed in Ra, some time ago, all 100%.
    Etc…

    It is not matter of believing, but of logic.

    Believing in flat earth had some logic in experience (people could not see the curve of globe), but your believing in your god is equal to someone’s believing in Ra, absolutely no difference: both are based on pure imagination. Bith are made up.
    How do you know it wasn’t Ra who created universe?
    Or holy Flying Bananas? Holy Spaghetti monster?

    You don’t, and you can not offer any arguments!

  53. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:47 am 53.Severin said …

    33 Dutch
    “You ilk thinks it is OK to murder baby girls in China.”

    That is the way you debate in lack of arguments!
    It is typical for theists: if you don’t have to say anything, put a label on people!
    What can anyone say, but: Phooey!

    Reed your Bible, to see WHOSE basic instict was to kill babies and pregnant women, then think about who takes Bible as guidance.

    I don’t!

  54. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:57 am 54.Severin said …

    39 Dutch
    “I have acquaintances with Hindus, Muslims, RCs and Mormons and at least they are respectful of other beliefs.”

    But, they are delusional, aren’t they?

    I would kindly insist to hear your answer to this question!
    Are Hindus, Muslims, RCs… delusional?

  55. on 22 Mar 2011 at 7:04 am 55.Severin said …

    47 Horatio
    (About flat earth/earth being the center of universe):
    “We have proven both false.”

    Who proved it? When?

    Do you claim that MAJORITY of people thought earth was a globe, some 1000 years ago?
    Do you claim MAJORITY of people believed sun was the center of our solar system some 500 – 600 years ago?

    Please!

  56. on 22 Mar 2011 at 12:39 pm 56.Dutch said …

    Posted:

    “You seem to miss the obvious point – this blog seeks “proof” that god exists, it examines why people have a delusional belief in a super natural god”

    You think so? So the 50 proofs that God does not exist on the sister blog GII is seeking proof? I don’t think so. I think this is a weak attempt at proving GII. It fails horribly filled with fallacies and poor understanding of God. I believe some of them must be a joke.

    Hor makes a great point all of you did ignore. That is typically what happens when facts are not to be disputed. The Flat Earth was proven to be incorrect. Since God was believed by great men throughout science, politics and all walks or leadership (without delusion), you need to make your case.

  57. on 22 Mar 2011 at 12:44 pm 57.Carl Z said …

    DPK

    “300 years ago most people on earth, and yes, it is supported in the bible, believed slavery was perfectly ok.”

    Yes, a large number still do. Of course Biblical slavery in the ancient Hebrew culture was voluntary to pay back personal debt but let us not muddy the waters with facts. Your Biblical exegesis was going so well.

  58. on 22 Mar 2011 at 1:45 pm 58.Lou said …

    56.Dutch said

    “You think so? So the 50 proofs that God does not exist on the sister blog GII is seeking proof?”

    1. I wrote “This blog,” not http://www.godisimaginary.com/ which is NOT a blog.

    2. This blog “explores God and religion in our world today.”

    “Hor makes a great point all of you did ignore. That is typically what happens when facts are not to be disputed. The Flat Earth was proven to be incorrect.”

    There’s really something wrong with you. You have so distorted the “flat Earth” comment that you’ve fixated on it beyond absurdity. Move on, we’re beyond that.

    “Since God was believed by great men throughout science, politics and all walks or leadership (without delusion), you need to make your case.”

    We’ve already made the case in the context of your irrelevant point. To wit, that “great men” believed in god is only evidence that some people believe in god, not that god exists. It doesn’t matter if you say you believe in god or that some “great men” say it. The greatness of the believer doesn’t matter. Why is that such a difficult idea for you to comprehend?

  59. on 22 Mar 2011 at 5:14 pm 59.DPK said …

    @Carl Z

    “Yes, a large number still do. Of course Biblical slavery in the ancient Hebrew culture was voluntary to pay back personal debt but let us not muddy the waters with facts. Your Biblical exegesis was going so well.”

    Muddy the water? The point was about whether a belief by a majority constitutes “proof” of truth, not whether a biblical apologist’s convoluted and tired definition of slavery is enough rationalization to excuse god’s seeming endorsement of it. I doubt the slaves of biblical days who were born into slavery, captured by invading forces, or sold by their families or masters would consider themselves merely “employees”… but that isn’t the point at all. The point was that the fact that a lot of people claim to believe something doesn’t make it so.

    An awful lot of people believe that Jesus was NOT the son of god, that Mohammad physically rode to heaven on a winged horse, and that Allah can kick Yahweh’s butt. Now… you think THOSE people are deluded, don’t you? Of course you must, or you wouldn’t be a christian. (and I am assuming you are, and if I am mistaken.. apologies). But the fact is the MAJORITY of people in the world, if you count all the secularists and other non-christian religions, believe that Jesus was NOT the son of god. So if majority is proof, sorry, you loose. But of course, you KNOW all those other people have it completely wrong, don’t you?

  60. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:00 pm 60.Lou said …

    59.DPK said

    “Muddy the water? The point was…but that isn’t the point at all. The point was that the fact that a lot of people claim to believe something doesn’t make it so.”

    DPK, he simply doesn’t get it, and he never will. His convoluted thought process won’t allow it. He can’t help it. It’s a mental limitation that can’t be overcome. And it obviously exists in several people who participate in this discussion.

    It’s almost a paradox that they are so sure that everybody elses god is a delusion, but theirs isn’t. Why can’t they get that last little bit of understanding that their belief in their god is no different than those beliefs that they reject, and that ALL such beliefs are delusional?

    What it boils down to is that their belief is in most cases simply a matter of geographic birth. That is to say, they believe the religion that exists where they were born and/or grew-up. Countries have gone to war and individuals have been murdered because of this idiotic thought process.

  61. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:21 pm 61.DPK said …

    Lou,
    Yes, I know. But it is still so much fun to jerk them around by their own words. I can’t help it sometimes, although it is very un-christian of me.

    About now (after all the questions and challenges that they have been unable to answer and have therefore simply ignored) that they will tell us that they hope and pray that someday we will open our hearts (and presumably turn off our brains) and just let faith take control of our lives. To stop looking for answers and reasons and just believe.

    To quote Tony Soprano to Christoper when he was mourning the murder of his girlfriend that he had just had killed, “Best not to think about that no more.”

    The main mystery to me is why so many people think that religions deserve “respect” and should be above question or criticism. The statement about having friends that are “Hindus, Muslims, RCs and Mormons and at least they are respectful of other beliefs.”

    Doesn’t this go against the very foundation of your beliefs. Commandment #1 was “thou shalt have no gods before me”. Being “respectful” of other people’s gods is a mortal sin. At the very least, you believe that these other religions are false and will lead the believer to an eternity of damnation… it’s not very christian of you to respectfully step aside and let them go, now is it?

    Goes back to my belief that the majority of people do not “really” believe the nonsense they profess to believe. You know the ones that DO? They are the ones who strap on the suicide vests, let their children die of easily cured diseases, and picket with hateful signs at the funerals of fallen soldiers. THEY are the ones who have not been able to draw the distinction between their beliefs and reality… they are the true believers, and we all know they are insane. I’m reminded of the comment I read when President Bush was in office. (don’t know who said it, sorry) Something like, “Americans have no problem with a president who claims to talk to god every day, but if he claimed he talked to god every day through his hair dryer, it would be a national crisis. What’s wrong with that picture?”

  62. on 22 Mar 2011 at 6:45 pm 62.Horatiio said …

    LOL! This is great. You guys miss every point at every turn. I can only conclude you cannot not follow along point by point on a general conversation.

    To wit, let me simplify. I want to help you. Atheist are 5% of the population. NO THIS IS NOT PROOF OD GOD (sorry just to make a point) but it is amazing that 5% of the population believes the other 95% to be delusional. But alas, that sounds more like a cult.

    Now, stay focused. If your worldview is so true, logical, obvious and fulfilling why are your numbers so small? Try to stay away from banana and flat earth arguments. Those arguments are irrelevant.

    PS:

    The GII site is referenced here many times and is fair game. Atheist refer to it often on this site.

  63. on 22 Mar 2011 at 7:05 pm 63.TGHO said …

    @62 Horatiio,

    5%? Please provide a reference for that figure.

  64. on 22 Mar 2011 at 7:08 pm 64.DPK said …

    Good point. Let me try to answer.
    1st, our numbers are not as small as you think. Being atheist has a social stigma attached, especially in many parts of the world where admitting to it can get you killed. I own a business, I do not advertise the fact that I am atheist because my business would suffer because of it. Add to that the people who are “Sunday believers” and you will find that atheists, agnostics, and those who only seem to believe for social convention are way more than you think.
    2nd, the majority of people in the world do not believe in the SAME god you do. According to you, their gods are false. Believing in the wrong god is no different from believing in no god. Actually, according to the bible, it it WORSE.
    So, if YOUR worldview is so true, logical, and fulfilling, why are YOUR numbers so small?
    If the perfect creator gave us his perfect word as a way for us to know, understand, and commune with him, wouldn’t you expect it to be, well perfect? So perfect that no one could deny it’s profound beauty and truth? So perfect that one would not need a church or minister to explain to us what it “really” means, (for instance when we are instructed to stone to death those that work on the Sabbath, or are disrespectful to our parents).
    Your Bible has had thousands of years to make it’s point. Why are your numbers dwindling instead of spreading like wildfire? If your bible is the word of the perfect creator of the universe, why are there Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc? Indeed, why are there so many competing sects of christians?
    Truth by popularity is not helping your argument, I fear.

  65. on 22 Mar 2011 at 7:34 pm 65.Horatiio said …

    “1st, our numbers are not as small as you think.”

    Let me stop you there. You are correct. They are probably smaller. My experience with HS and college students has shown many who claim to be atheist do it to be different and to rebel. When pressed, they really have given zero thought to the prospect.

    2nd I never claimed the world accepts the same God. What a ridiculous statement. Really Einstein? People inherently know there is a deity even if they accept the wrong deity. Attempting to portray my numbers as small is digression. Try to stay on point.

    Don’t hand me this social stigma jazz. Many put there necks on the line overseas for their beliefs but still remain loyal to their beliefs. Maybe atheist just are not that loyal?

  66. on 22 Mar 2011 at 7:47 pm 66.TGHO said …

    @65 Horatiio,

    You are incorrect:
    (http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html)

    Atheists and non-believers are the third largest philosophy in the world, with 1.1 billion (approximate) adherants.

    Christianity is only 33%.

  67. on 22 Mar 2011 at 8:15 pm 67.DPK said …

    Ok, so your point as I understand it, is that because MOST people claim to believe, entirely on faith, that there is “some sort” of magical supernatural being, even though they can’t agree on which one, which holy book he authored, what he wants us to do, how he demands to be worshiped, or who is going to rewarded with an eternity of bliss and who is going to receive eternal damnation and torment… that somehow proves that one of them must be true?
    Since there seems to be no real consensus, and none of you have offered up anything in the way of proof other than some books written by ancient sheep herders, I don’t find anything convincing about your contention.
    You think our numbers are smaller, but you are basing this on what? Conversations with some high school and college students who perhaps couldn’t shout as loud as you?
    I have offered you a theory based on observation. If people believed in god, why do they go to doctors? If they trust in god’s plan, why do they pray for a different outcome when something bad happens to them? If people believe in Jesus’ word in the bible, why don’t more of them “sell everything they own, give it to the poor and come follow [Jesus]” as instructed? Why do they look for jobs? Jesus said god will provide for them as he does the birds of the air. Why do children get cancer and die of starvation? When a disaster strikes, why do people try to save people whom god obviously meant to punish? If we believe in god’s plan and god’s mercy…. why do we ever try to change anything???
    I grew up “believing” in god because I was told by my parents and all my elders that this was true. I was also told if I touched the communion host it would bleed, if I set foot in a “protestant” church it would crumble around me, and that I should pray for the poor pagan children who’s souls were condemned to burn in hell.
    I also grew up believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.
    Sorry for the rambling. My point is, “believing” is not always believing. And, you still have not answered the question…. even if 100% of the people on the planet at any given point in history claimed a belief in something…. how do you conclude from that, that it is therefore true?
    If the majority of the people in the world said the moon is made of cheese, it would still not make moon rocks a tasty treat. The two items are not related, no matter how much you wish them to be.
    So, how is it that somewhere between 40% and 99% of the world’s population (and I’ll give you the benefit of the entire range because it matters not one bit) professes a belief in the supernatural? The short answer is, “because Mommy said so” and most people don’t give it much thought beyond that.
    If there was a universal truth driving belief in god, you would not see geographical distribution of religious beliefs. There would be either a universal religion, or at the very least, a homogeneous distribution. Religion is a social phenomena, not a universal one.

  68. on 22 Mar 2011 at 8:27 pm 68.Horatiio said …

    TGHO

    “People who specify atheism as their religious preference actually make up less than one-half of one percent of the population in many countries where much large numbers claim no religious preference”

    That is from you website TGHO. Let me explain. No religious affiliation would include me. That does not imply I am an atheist

    Nice try, but you are not the 1st atheist to make such an attempt.

    DPK,

    You are rambling. We are discussing belief in a deity. I have neither the time nor desire to break every religion down for you. You must establish the presence of a deity before delving into specifics.

    Why are your numbers so small if atheism is logical, likely and fulfilling?

  69. on 22 Mar 2011 at 8:47 pm 69.DPK said …

    “You are rambling. We are discussing belief in a deity. I have neither the time nor desire to break every religion down for you.”

    And by “rambling” you mean asking questions for which you have no good answer?

    I will answer your question when you answer mine:
    “How does belief by (fill in the number you want)% of the any population show that a given belief is in fact, true? Please show a demonstrable cause and effect.

  70. on 22 Mar 2011 at 11:26 pm 70.MrQ said …

    Hor, #68
    Since you’re all about no religious affiliation, this story from the BEEB must put a big smile on your face:
    (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12811197)

    Slick, do you suppose that the people losing their religion will suffer from the same mind funk as you do? Will they look for HD motorcycles washing up on their beaches?

  71. on 22 Mar 2011 at 11:51 pm 71.Horatiio said …

    “How does belief by (fill in the number you want)% of the any population show that a given belief is in fact, true?

    It doesn’t and I never claimed it did. You are off track again. What is does is beg the question how a small group like yours is indeed correct? Why is the large percentage delusional?

    Mr Q

    LOL! You like the HD analogy huh!! Good, can you explain why one had not washed ashore? All the materials are available in nature as well as all the processes. Wouldn’t you think after billions of years we would have one?

  72. on 22 Mar 2011 at 11:55 pm 72.Horatiio said …

    Mr Q,

    Sorry missed the link. I hope so but anything the British Humanist association is behind, um I tend not to buy into.

  73. on 23 Mar 2011 at 12:07 am 73.DPK said …

    “how a small group like yours is indeed correct? Why is the large percentage delusional?”

    I don’t know why a large group is deluded and a small group is correct. The snippy answer is because they ARE. Just as at one time a large group was totally wrong about flat earth and a small group were correct about Copernican theory. It happens because the 2 elements, number of believers and actual reality, are not related in any way. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? You find it impossible to accept, but history has shown it over and over and over again that mankind has been universally WRONG about things until a small group of progressive thinkers has shown them reality. Even then, science has usually only dragged religion into recognizing reality kicking and screaming and usually only after it was just too painfully obvious to continue denying it… as in Galileo’s forced acknowledgment of his “heresy” by the church… (fast forward to what, 1969(?) when the church finally admitted maybe Galileo had it right all along? Sorry, my bad!
    So, thank you for finally conceding your original argument had no merit, and the short answer to your question is, “Because we are.”

  74. on 23 Mar 2011 at 2:47 am 74.Horatiio said …

    More false arguments. Atheism is not new, it is old. They are not progressive, they are just louder than in the past. Lets examine what new evidence they have for the lack of a God from 2000 year ago.

    chirp chirp chirp…..

    No, science does not support atheism. It is silent on the issue. Science has advanced due to theist not in spite of theist. Science does not disprove God in even one respect. Again, another false argument.

    Nothing new. History has also shown many times that the majority is RIGHT. Lets see, the flat earthers claim to be right and they are a minority. Maybe we should all become flat earthers? Another false argument.

    (sigh) now we go back to the atheist favorite, Galileo. Yes we all agree Galileo was right but he had PROOF. Galileo was also opposed by philosophers, not just clerics.

    You have no proof to support that your minority is right.

  75. on 23 Mar 2011 at 3:12 am 75.DPK said …

    Do you actually believe your own ridiculous arguments?
    The flat earthers actually ARE right. The earth is flat. All the so called evidence of a round earth is actually an illusion created in our perception by invisible space monkeys from the 4th dimension who control everything we see and experience. I mean, how silly is the idea of a round earth? That would mean that some people would be standing upside down or even sideways! Don’t you think we would NOTICE if we were standing upside down? Are you serious? Flat earth is an old idea that was known to ancient man before the space monkeys started deluding us.

    Go ahead… prove I’m wrong.

  76. on 23 Mar 2011 at 8:01 am 76.Severin said …

    75 Horatio
    “Yes we all agree Galileo was right but he had PROOF. ”

    … which idiots who believed in god did not recognize for centuries!

    It was not easy to live in a world in which ingenious people had to risk their lives in proving that 2+2=4 to mighty religious idiots.

    It is not easy to live in a world in which idiots spread their claims without any proofs, but expect other people to prove everything they claim.

    THAT is the right face of all religions! An UGLY, rerograde face!

    Thank you, Horati(i)o!

  77. on 23 Mar 2011 at 10:28 am 77.TGHO said …

    @68 Horatiio,

    *sigh*

    “No religious affiliation” would not include you, as you are a christian.

    Regardless of your “definition” of what an atheist actually is, it’s quite clear that at least 16% of the world’s population are either atheists or agnostics. Another approximately 50% follow a completely different religion to you. And within the 33% of christianity (which includes all the various sects, churches, etc.) have completely different views on how to interpret what christianity actually means. This invalidates your argument of “one true god” quite definitely.

  78. on 23 Mar 2011 at 10:35 am 78.TGHO said …

    @74 Horatiio,

    Again you are misrepresenting the position of the various arguments. It is not up to the atheists to prove the non-existence of a deity. You can’t prove a negative. It’s up to the theists, who are making a positive claim, to back up their claim with actual evidence. This is yet to be provided, in the ten thousand years of modern human existence.

    Science, as I have pointed out many times before, does not prove anything. There is no proof in science, simply attempted explanations for data and evidence. Naturalisic explanations seem to be able to actually account for the majority of data we currently have, without any need for supernatural involvement.

    And as I pointed out above, christians are not the majority either.

  79. on 23 Mar 2011 at 11:06 am 79.MrQ said …

    Hor #71

    LOL! You like the HD analogy huh!! Good, can you explain why one had not washed ashore? All the materials are available in nature as well as all the processes. Wouldn’t you think after billions of years we would have one?

    The stupid, it burns. I wonder how it is possible that you subscribe to Francis Collins (biologos.org) view of the Theory of Evolution and then come up with dumb ass statements like this. Oh yeah, you also read the bible…now I understand.

  80. on 23 Mar 2011 at 11:09 am 80.Ben said …

    I watched a guy on video from the Denver Humanist fair state the reason there was no God was because he was smart. I laughed until my side hurt.

    For people who claim they have a “lack of belief”, they spend a lot of time attempting to convince others. I understand the religious evangelizing. They think they have something to offer. Atheist only have a “lack of” to offer. It really makes no sense.

  81. on 23 Mar 2011 at 11:21 am 81.Horatiio said …

    “:It is not up to the atheists to prove the non-existence of a deity:”

    Typical atheists. Now they no longer claim there is no God after arguing there is no God. Then why the 50 proofs of God is imaginary? Why do so many of you make the claim No God?

    “It’s up to the theists, who are making a positive claim”

    Yes, and there is a tremendous amount. You just don’t accept it. Great example above. DPK believes the earth is flat. We know better because we accept the evidence. You cannot help those who refuse to accept the evidence. The same goes for God.

    Atheist are just like the flat earth society. They too believe the vast majority to be wrong.

  82. on 23 Mar 2011 at 12:48 pm 82.DPK said …

    “You cannot help those who refuse to accept the evidence.”

    H… thanks for the morning laugh.
    I’m still waiting for you to PROVE to me that the earth is round. This “evidence” that you speak of for a round earth has been invalidated completely by my simple explanation of invisible space monkeys. You have given no proof whatsoever that they are not real.
    The idea of a round earth that spins also goes against common sense. We would fall off. Any idiot can see that! Try putting a pebble on the side of a basketball. It will fall off.
    Now, prove your silly round earth “theory” or go home.

  83. on 23 Mar 2011 at 3:33 pm 83.DPK said …

    “Atheist only have a “lack of” to offer. It really makes no sense.”

    So, I assume you accept the existence of garden gnomes because the only alternative offered is a “lack of” garden gnomes and that makes no sense?

    Your concept of “making no sense” is very strange.
    Magical beings makes sense, no magical beings does not. That is truly a WTF? worldview.

  84. on 23 Mar 2011 at 4:56 pm 84.Homer said …

    I’m with DPK. The earth is flat. Doughnuts are flat too! I now feel safe to come out of the closet… (squeak)

    dooh! oh my head!

    H Simpson

  85. on 23 Mar 2011 at 5:21 pm 85.Lou said …

    78.TGHO said …

    @74 Horatiio,

    “Again you are misrepresenting the position of the various arguments.”

    No, he isn’t. He’s simply that dense.

    79.MrQ said

    Hor #71

    “The stupid, it burns.”

    Guys, as I commented before, he simply doesn’t get it, and he never will. His convoluted thought process won’t allow it. He can’t help it. It’s a mental limitation that can’t be overcome. I can understand that some people who are intelligent can be theists, but I’ve NEVER encountered anybody who presents such laughable, stupid arguments as this guy does. He can’t even understand how he convolutes his own nonsensical arguments.

    I used to think that it’s not logically possible to prove that something doesn’t exist. However, in the case of Intelligent Design here in Hor we have absolute proof that ID didn’t happen.

  86. on 23 Mar 2011 at 5:22 pm 86.DPK said …

    Yes, and doughnuts are delicious too… as are Keebler cookies, made by elves, in whom I am more inclined to believe in than god. At least I can see them on TV and I can get their cookies in the store. More proof than I ever got from any god.
    I suppose Hor will claim the Keebler Elves are not real. But I’ll bet he can’t prove they’re not!

    I could make a very lengthy list of things I cannot prove are not real. But that doesn’t therefore mean that they are real. I don’t know the proper name for that particular logical flaw, but it’s obvious to most 2nd graders. I guess we could call it if A does not equal B, therefore B must equal C.

  87. on 23 Mar 2011 at 5:28 pm 87.Lou said …

    80.Ben said …

    “For people who claim they have a “lack of belief”, they spend a lot of time attempting to convince others. I understand the religious evangelizing.”

    No, you obviously do not, and you probably don’t understand a lot of other things. We don’t care what you believe in as long as it does not affect our lives. The problem is that almost every delusional theist believes THEIR delusional belief is correct and that they must force it on everybody else. If you and your ilk would simply STFU about your delusions, then you wouldn’t misunderstand atheists.

  88. on 23 Mar 2011 at 5:40 pm 88.Horatiio said …

    “For people who claim they have a “lack of belief”, they spend a lot of time attempting to convince others.”

    Ben

    LOL, these guys are quite hilarious. Yes atheist evangelizing is alive and well. First there is No God, then there is lack of belief and then there is “theist must prove God. They in reality do not know what they believe. The specialty is the false argument. Speaking of which, lets throw out Mitch’s challenge:

    Prove Socrates existed.

    Do we have any Socrates deniers wiht us?

    DPK & Homer,

    I have no problem with flat-earthers. Go for it. Here ya go. I post this for Observer since he is not with us today.

    http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

    I have a link for fixed earth if you change your beliefs.

  89. on 23 Mar 2011 at 5:48 pm 89.DPK said …

    “I have no problem with flat-earthers. Go for it.”

    Why am I not surprised?

    I am seriously trying to decide whether he actually does not recognize sarcasm and thinks I am serious, or is simply deflecting…….. again.

  90. on 23 Mar 2011 at 6:20 pm 90.Lou said …

    89.DPK said …

    “I am seriously trying to decide whether he actually does not recognize sarcasm and thinks I am serious, or is simply deflecting…….. again”

    Neither. You only have to recognize that he suffers from Illogicality or possibly Flight Of Ideas.

  91. on 23 Mar 2011 at 7:38 pm 91.TGHO said …

    @81 Horatiio,

    You haven’t presented a single piece of evidence to support the existence of the supernatural! In the other thread you claimed that there were hundreds of books which proved your god existed, produce one – post the title and author here. You keep claiming that “there is a tremendous amount” and yet you seem to have misplaced or forgotten where you put it.

    The fifty proofs are logical gaps in theistic arguments. They are part of the logical arguments. They are counter to the claims put forward by theists. In the face of actual *EVIDENCE* they would be immaterial.

  92. on 23 Mar 2011 at 8:37 pm 92.Lou said …

    91.TGHO said …

    @81 Horatiio,

    “The fifty proofs are logical gaps in theistic arguments. They are part of the logical arguments. They are counter to the claims put forward by theists. In the face of actual *EVIDENCE* they would be immaterial.”

    Oh hell! You’ll really confuse him now. Be prepared for the nonsensical reply.

  93. on 23 Mar 2011 at 9:00 pm 93.Ben said …

    Hor,

    “Yes atheist evangelizing is alive and well”

    Stumbled across an article last year where some atheists were calling for atheist to evangelize the masses. I was quite perplexed since evangelizing means you have something to offer. I have never seen how “lacking” is offering anything.

    I think the phenomenon going on here is the same as what I dealt with many years ago as a young agnostic. I found myself with the need to squabble with the religious on a regular basis. I wasn’t until after I came to know Christ that I realized my need to argue was God’s way of keeping God on my mind.

  94. on 23 Mar 2011 at 9:18 pm 94.Lou said …

    93.Ben said

    “I was quite perplexed since evangelizing means you have something to offer.”

    No wonder you were perplexed, evangelizing doesn’t mean that. It means to preach the gospel. Having something to offer means, well…, offering.

    “I think the phenomenon going on here is the same as what I dealt with many years ago as a young agnostic. I found myself with the need to squabble with the religious on a regular basis. I wasn’t until after I came to know Christ that I realized my need to argue was God’s way of keeping God on my mind.”

    I think the phenomenon going on inside your mind is delusion. First evidenced by your belief in a super-natural deity, then by your belief that arguing with atheists is “God’s way of keeping God on [your] mind.”

    Why doesn’t your imaginary god simply “occupy” your mind rather than make you argue with atheists with idiotic comments that only reinforces their way of thinking? Whenever I “squabble with the religious” it keeps the stupidity of believing in a super-natural deity on my mind, because they continue to say the dumbest things.

  95. on 23 Mar 2011 at 10:13 pm 95.DPK said …

    I for one, do not go around shoving my non-religious convictions down other people’s throats. I don’t go ringing doorbells on Saturday afternoon and ask people if they’ve realized god is make-believe.
    However, on a discussion board devoted to the topic, where seemingly intelligent, adult people gather for the express purpose of discussing such things, I don’t see how voicing an opinion can be construed as “evangelizing”. If you are not the slightest bit interested in what I, or anyone else here, thinks… why are you here? Just do what I do to the Adventists… say “no thanks” and close the door.

  96. on 24 Mar 2011 at 2:00 am 96.Horatiio said …

    DPK

    Oh, are you renouncing flat earth? Great! Welcome back. Now if you can overcome this atheist cult you will be back to full speed.

    Ben

    I too suffered from the atheist syndrome. I guess I went off the deep end a little more than you since you stuck at agnostic. I would never have admitted then, but I knew something was missing. I also knew deep inside that creation without a Creator was impossible. Like Flew, I followed the evidence where it lead me. I feel so free after being honest with myself.

    Lou,

    So nasty. Why don’t you call him big fatty too!

  97. on 24 Mar 2011 at 3:03 am 97.DPK said …

    Glib is the best you got huh? Sad.

    Anyway, your instinctive knowledge that creation can not be without a creator is interesting, but problematic.
    By your own sense and acknowledgment, the existence of a complex creation begs the necessity of a creator. Then, who created the creator? He must be far more complex than that which he created. If your answer is that the creator had no creator, then I must ask why you can accept that premise for god, but not for the universe?

    And before you jump on me and demand an answer… I don’t know where the universe came from, and neither do you. Even if I yammer back to the big bang and creation and membrane theory and multiverses… I don’t know. I’m not that smart, and more importantly, I don’t pretend to know things that I either do not know or are perhaps unknowable. But that does not give me license to simply make up a story and claim that I know it to be true. That is religion’s job.

  98. on 24 Mar 2011 at 3:19 am 98.Lou said …

    96.Horatiio said …

    “Ben

    I too suffered from the atheist syndrome. I guess I went off the deep end a little more than you since you stuck at agnostic.”

    Ben wrote “I wasn’t until after I came to know Christ that I realized my need to argue was God’s way of keeping God on my mind.”

    Hor, how was he “stuck at agnostic?”

  99. on 24 Mar 2011 at 5:15 pm 99.Horatiio said …

    “Hor, how was he “stuck at agnostic?””

    Lou,

    Really quite simple. I read his post @ #93. I think this is the crux of your problem Lou. You do not read for content.

    Ben,

    Of course the universe did not create itself. Anyone can reason a creation requires a creator. I think that was in the New England primer during our nation’s founding.

  100. on 24 Mar 2011 at 5:54 pm 100.Lou said …

    99.Horatiio said …

    “Hor, how was he “stuck at agnostic?””

    Lou,

    Really quite simple. I read his post @ #93. I think this is the crux of your problem Lou. You do not read for content.”

    I again ask you, if he “came to know Christ” then how was he “stuck at agnostic?” What did he write in #93 that made you conclude he was “stuck at agnostic?” If he “came to know Christ,” then he wouldn’t be agnostic anymore, would he?

  101. on 24 Mar 2011 at 9:01 pm 101.Horatiio said …

    Lou

    LOL!! WoW! I think the verb “was” you just used implies he no longer is stuck. See now he is past his delusion.

    Step 1 Hew was agnostic (stuck)
    Step 2 He became a Christian (Free)
    Step 3 Free from his delusion

    If this doesn’t help, try Eng 101 at your local Tech school.

  102. on 24 Mar 2011 at 11:52 pm 102.Lou said …

    101.Horatiio said …

    “LOL!! WoW! I think the verb “was” you just used implies he no longer is stuck.”

    Really?! I know he wasn’t “stuck at agnostic” because of what he wrote. I wrote “was,” you didn’t. You wrote “…since you [sic] stuck at agnostic.”

    “If this doesn’t help, try Eng 101 at your local Tech school.”

    You, who wrote “since you [sic] stuck at agnostic” is recommending that I try “Eng 101?” LOL!

    I didn’t think you would simply explain your mis-constructed sentence, but rather like you do with every other incorrect comment you make, you blame it on the fault of the reader.

  103. on 25 Mar 2011 at 12:10 am 103.Horatiio said …

    Ha Ha Ha Lou,

    Stuck is past tense for stick. It is a perfectly good sentence. Hey I have an idea, you have a lot of time, STICK it in your word processor and get us the results.

    Seriously, this is what you have been reduced to? Ha Ha How pathetic. You are incorrect, I don’t blame you. I don’t blame children when they act like children. You are only acting your maturity level.

    If you find an incorrect comment let me know Louise. Since you like to correct grammar we can call you Louise.

  104. on 25 Mar 2011 at 1:05 am 104.Lou said …

    103.Horatiio said …

    “Stuck is past tense for stick.”

    You never heard anyone say “My car IS stuck in the mud?”

    But you really do miss the point. First of all, it has nothing to with stuck being the past tense of stick. The point is your comment is an example of how you often paraphrase what people write here. You wrote that he was “stuck at agnostic.” He didn’t write or even imply that. You changed what he wrote to suit your purpose.

  105. on 25 Mar 2011 at 1:57 am 105.Ben said …

    Lou actually being stuck in an atheist mindset is how I would describe my life at the point. What is your problem dude? You are so anal.

    I fancy “stuck” over being called delusional and stupid as your post asserts in #94.

    From the posts I read, you haven’t shown me much that would give me pause to regard your estimation of my psychological state or my intellect.

  106. on 28 Mar 2011 at 10:31 am 106.TGHO said …

    Still waiting on the title and author of even one book “proving” a divine entity exists…

    Cripes, luckily I’m not waiting for a train or something.

  107. on 31 Mar 2011 at 10:49 am 107.saved said …

    2 corinthians 4:3….apostle paul says even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing whose minds the god of this age (the devil) has blinded, who do not believe. The false teachers accused paul of preaching an antiquated message. Paul showed that the problem was not the message or the messenger,but with the hearers headed for hell. The preacher can not persuade people to believe; only God can do that.

    1 corinthians 2:14 says but the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spritually discerned. And go down to verse 16 and it says for who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him.

  108. on 31 Mar 2011 at 10:54 am 108.TGHO said …

    @107 saved,

    Your bible is a book of myths and fairy tales. Less than 10% of the book is factual. Furthermore, in no way does the bible prove that the christian deity actually exists.

  109. on 31 Mar 2011 at 11:04 am 109.saved said …

    Tgho
    You just proved what 1 cor.2:14 is saying………well I’m gone I will continue to pray that God saves all of you

  110. on 31 Mar 2011 at 2:08 pm 110.Severin said …

    5 saved
    “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord…”

    I’ve heard the same for Allah.

    Some 500 – 600 years ago people in South America claimed the same for Qutzalcoatl.

    Whom shall I obey?
    How to determine what is the right choice for me?

    I decided not to believe in gods untill some of them personally tells me and proves me he is the right one.

    I especially don’t like gods who threaten me and blckmail me, and it seems that all of them prefer that kind of communication with believers.

  111. on 01 Apr 2011 at 7:24 am 111.TGHO said …

    @109 saved,

    Pray away. Don’t forget to include Odin, Zeus, Bhuddha, Mithra and all the others, just to be sure!

  112. on 25 Apr 2011 at 6:01 am 112.mediator said …

    honestly fuck all of this. religion is IMPOSSIBLE to persuade. Something that can not be disproven and is taught from birth is almost impossible to change. Seriously, horatio and theists will NOT change, they grew up going to church and having “supernatural” experiences. as if a God would ever care for a little planet out of 1×10^9999999999999999 in the universe. news flash, the odds are in favor of life on other planets. Mars had water at some point and with that life. earth was created 4.5 billions years ago, universe 14 billions years ago. about 10 billions years in between, was God just taking a vacation or did it take him billions of years to create beings that are currently destroying eachother and only 33% of them believe in him. life will be found on other planets through science just like asteriods paths can now be detected years in advanced. So why does God spend time on one specie on one planet? if anything were just an experiment for him, trial and error like the holocaust and the fall of Rome. A smart God will take notes and watch us destroy ourselves so for the next time he can create a better specie. One that will listen to his chapter book and kill 66% of the earth while treating women like shit. The all knowing God would “know” how to persuade us. obviously this is an experiment. Well since he has “scheduled everyday in advanced” why do you christains bother changing us? God will do it if he wants. However we have no God so we have reason to try to change you, although pointless. seriously this arguement will never end. There is no proof for either side. Same goes for Flying bananas. :) seriously though this blog is pointless.

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