Feed on Posts or Comments 20 October 2014

Christianity &Islam &Judaism &Rationals Thomas on 21 Sep 2010 12:24 am

Asking a big question

In this post, a woman in her mid-30s asks a big question:

Honest Inquiry

How do you live life fully, without at least a glimmer of hope that something bigger is out there? I’m asking this in all sincerity. What do you believe? What would you (or do you) tell your kids about the beauty of life? How do you find peace, with the understanding of such an immense loss you will eventually face? And how do you explain this drive so many of us have, to do good things in the world? Why am I teaching my toddler to make the right choices, be patient and giving with others, etc? Why is this so important, if we’re simply animals who are here to reproduce and die?

See the thread for a variety of replies. This one was overwhelmingly chosen as the highest rated:

Here’s a way of approaching the universe: You are a tiny speck of insignificant biological material in an immense universe that probably defies your brain’s ability of understanding. Yet you are remarkable, in innumerable ways. Every second of every day you are a walking ecosystem of life, housing trillions of microbes that continuously interact with you to keep both you and them alive. Your body is constantly building and rebuilding itself, encoding information on simple strains of molecules at the speed of jet engines, in each and every nucleus-possessing cell in your body. You are a walking, talking, living, breathing orchestra of life, a beautiful display of the potential inherent in our particular universe.

You are the remarkable product of an unbroken, let me say that again, UNBROKEN line of descendants stretching all the way back to the very first interactions of seemingly pointless inanimate molecules. You share a common ancestry with every living thing ever, including the estimated 106 billion humans who have ever lived. You are tied to the trees and the birds and the small phytoplankton that gently ride the crests and dips of the oceans of this world. You are part of the vibrant tapestry of what we refer to as life, a piece of art that stretches back billions upon billions of years. Everything this universe has thrown at you and your ancestors has been roundly defeated – from harsh radiation, to extraterrestrial objects, to volcanic eruptions and more. You are a symbol of utter perseverance, of the sheer will to continue onwards. You are a cry in the dark, the voice of one who will not be quiet.

So now you’ve realized that there is no inherent meaning to existence. So what? This doesn’t mean life has suddenly lost meaning – it means there was no meaning in the first place. So you haven’t actually lost anything. Instead, you have gained a wonderful opportunity. Give existence the meaning it is seeking. MAKE a purpose for yourself. Maybe it should be your kids, or maybe it should be giving from the bounty you have (because let us face reality – if you have an internet connection and personal computer, you are in the top 10%, maybe even the top 1%, of humanity). Maybe you should learn a new skill, explore a new facet of creation that you never realized was open to you.

So why do you teach a toddler how to behave? Because maybe that toddler will be the one to find other life, other existence in our so far lonely universe. Or maybe they will be the father, the mother, the close friend, the lover, the supporter of the one who does. Or maybe they will be the person to speak out at just the right moment, the one to stand up and stand out, who will provide the inspiration, or the moment of connection for the person who does. Or maybe that toddler will be the one to protect the life around us from an otherwise inevitable end, from the sucking void of empty existence that we struggle against every second of our being.

Are you just a breeder? Just biology? What an insult to biology! Just?!? I forgive you, because you know not what you say :D You are the product of a few basic particles, a few basic forces, yet you are impossibly complex, impossibly intricate. The sheer unlikeliness of your very existence is staggering, and yet here you are. The title of “breeder” is just a single facet of what you are. You can be a teacher, a leader, a thinker, a cook, a scientist, an artist, a musician, a protector, an enlightener, a champion, a peacemaker, a lover, a friend, a companion, a confidant… the list is a vast as the seemingly infinite complexities of neuron interactions in the collection of molecular structures known as cells in your brain.

And let us not end our poetic license there, for if all that is true, than this is also: There is something after death. The part of you that continues to exist in all life around you will never cease to be, not as long as things from this planet continue to live. You will continue on, interminably, from the beginning of life to its end potentially countless aeons from now, if ever. Maybe through some fluke you will be the Eve for humanity in the future, the one woman every human will trace their ancestry back to. Maybe not. But who can tell what the future holds. Rather than collapse under the imagined weight of nothingness, I posit that you should grasp hold of your life, and take it to heights heretofore unseen. Also – Hugs, love, and imaginary hot cocoa!

121 Responses to “Asking a big question”

  1. on 24 Sep 2010 at 11:27 am 1.Ben said …

    “So now you’ve realized that there is no inherent meaning to existence. So what? This doesn’t mean life has suddenly lost meaning – it means there was no meaning in the first place”

    Wow, that is so sad. I truly empathize with those who can see the greatness of their creation and their very existence but still have no purpose for life. If only they can find Christ their lives will suddenly have great meaning.

  2. on 24 Sep 2010 at 3:23 pm 2.Melanie Stephan said …

    That was an excellent post at the top of this page.
    My answer to the age old question on “The meaning of life” is:

    Douglas Adams says that “The Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything is 42.”

    God says that “Life is like a Black Box”. The box works for the owner but the owner does not know how the contents of the box works. God also has a black box that works for him. So the answer to the big question is 42.

    What that means is that there is an even greater meaning to Life and Everthing beyond what can be easily explained. Even for God.

  3. on 24 Sep 2010 at 6:32 pm 3.Severin said …

    1 Ben
    “…of their creation and their very existence but still have no purpose for life.”

    What is your purpose for life?
    How can it be so much different than mine, an atheist who does not believe in afterlife?
    As old as I am (68) I am very happy man, and I absolutely have no feeling that I lived for nothing.
    When my time comes, I will die smiling, happy for what I did in my life and happy to feed worms after I die, as my last contirbution to nature.

    I truly emphatize with those who kiss asses of gods to earn eternal life, being never sure whether they did or did not satisfy them, because they never answer anything.
    And, isn’t it boring to live for ever?

  4. on 24 Sep 2010 at 9:21 pm 4.Joe said …

    1 Ben:

    I think you confuse two things. There is a difference between “life has no inherent meaning” and “my life has no meaning”.
    Someone who appreciates “the greatness of their very existence” (to put it in your words) and does not believe that life has any INHERENT meaning, can still have a truly meaningful life. Without any God.

  5. on 24 Sep 2010 at 9:46 pm 5.Ben said …

    No, there is no confusion. Life without Christ has zero eternal significance. Do I worry about doing enough for God? Not at all. Christ did it all and my life is His. One who is truly born again realizes I can do nothing more to make God love me more. This life as great as it is is just the beginning to bigger and even better things.

  6. on 25 Sep 2010 at 2:18 am 6.Bible study said …

    Morality has nothing to do with salvation. The bible is not to be taken literally, it is very poetic with symbolism, shadows, metaphors, etc. All that is required for salvation is faith in Jesus. For example, the bible tells us a liar is one who denies that JEsus is the Christ. Therefore, if we believe and not deny he is the Christ, we are not liars. It does not matter if we tell natural lies. This is one example. God has hidden the true meaning of his word and reveals it to whom he will. The rest he hides himself from. There is nothing we can do about it. If he doesn’t want us to believe, we won’t. He is all powerful. I do agree with most atheist however, that organized Christianity, or so-called contains largely hateful hypocrites that do not know God nor his love. I don’t remember life without God and don’t want to. I am glad he let me believe and revealed himself to me.

  7. on 25 Sep 2010 at 6:38 am 7.Severin said …

    6 Bible study
    “The bible is not to be taken literally, it is very poetic with symbolism, shadows, metaphors, etc.”

    Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:
    If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
    Leviticus chapter 5:
    “Today I accidentally touched something that was ‘ceremonially unclean,’ and I didn’t know about it at the time, but fortunately a priest brought it to my attention, and I am guilty. Now, I can’t afford a lamb. But I can get two young pigeons for a shekel over at Saul’s bird emporium, and then I can take them both to the priest. He will wring the head from the neck of one of them, but not sever it completely. And he will sprinkle the blood, and drain the rest. And then the priest will burn the other pigeon. Then I am forgiven. Thank God!”
    Isaiah chapter 13:
    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

    Very poetic! Totally symbolic! Full of (ugly) shaddows, yes!
    Yet, no methaphors!

  8. on 25 Sep 2010 at 5:39 pm 8.Ben said …

    Bible Study,

    True the Bible does contain much symbolism in the prophetic literature however there are numerous parts that are to be read literally. To make such a blanket statement is irresponsible and wreckless.

  9. on 26 Sep 2010 at 2:24 am 9.Sister Chromatid said …

    To believe in entities for which there is no evidence is irresponsible and wreckless. It’s irresponsible whether you call such invisible magical beings Zeus, Satan, Xenu, or Jesus.

    It’s also irresponsible to tell trusting children that they will live happily ever after if they believe the right story and will suffer forever if they don’t. They turn into adults that sound like you.

    Ben, just because you feel like you to “need” a belief in Jesus to make your life “meaningful” (whatever that means) doesn’t make Jesus real or your life meaningful beyond the meaning you give it. I think life is much more meaningful when you’re not constantly trying to prove to some invisible guy that you believe in him.

  10. on 26 Sep 2010 at 3:36 am 10.Ben said …

    “To believe in entities for which there is no evidence is irresponsible and wreckless”

    If I did believe in God with no proof you might have a point. Stop reading all the mindless Dawkin’s books.

    No, actually you would still be wrong. Irresponsible is attempting to claim anothers relationship and experience is not real just because you have never had the privilege. Shame on you sister sledge.

  11. on 26 Sep 2010 at 6:49 am 11.Sagar Gorijala said …

    I proved that gods can’t exist and here is my proof.
    http://sagargorijala.blogspot.com/

  12. on 26 Sep 2010 at 12:28 pm 12.Anonymous said …

    @Ben
    Why do you assume we haven’t had a “relationship” with Christ in the past?
    Isn’t it irresponsible to indocrinate your children into being anti-scientific and into believing things with no evidence?

  13. on 26 Sep 2010 at 6:30 pm 13.Horatio said …

    What is anti-scientific??? LOL, you young budding atheist are always good for a chuckle.

    Thanks for educationing us Christans who live in dese huts here in da swamps of Louisiana.

    It is immoral to tell you kids fairy tales like the universe created itself. Stop being so dishonest with your kids.

  14. on 27 Sep 2010 at 1:35 am 14.Hell Yeah said …

    “It is immoral to tell you kids fairy tales like the universe created itself. Stop being so dishonest with your kids.”

    Hor,
    But it is being honest to tell your kids that a being in another realm, which we can’t perceive or have no proof of, created the universe, but this being also created itself? LOL

  15. on 27 Sep 2010 at 2:41 am 15.Curmudgeon said …

    @HY
    “But it is being honest to tell your kids that a being in another realm, which we can’t perceive or have no proof of, created the universe”

    Partly correct. We have plenty of proof but when you put your hands over your eyes and mumble nananananana it is difficult to see the astronomical proof of a creator. Wake up – theist are not a HUGE majority for no reason. The proof is readily evident.

  16. on 27 Sep 2010 at 2:56 am 16.Hell Yeah said …

    So what is this proof you speak of Cur?

    Theist are a majority because of fear and/or lack of education. Fear of death and/or lack of understanding of reality. It is also because of monkey see, monkey do, no pun intended.

  17. on 27 Sep 2010 at 3:07 am 17.Hell Yeah said …

    Stephen Hawking sums it all up when he said that

    ‘Science Makes God Unnecessary.
    The laws of physics can explain the universe without the need for a creator’

  18. on 27 Sep 2010 at 5:45 am 18.Severin said …

    8 Ben
    “…however there are numerous parts that are to be read literally.”

    And, of course, YOU rae the one who will tell us which part to read which way.
    Why you, why not I, or my brother in law, or…

  19. on 27 Sep 2010 at 5:54 am 19.Severin said …

    15 Curmudgeon
    “We have plenty of proof…”
    What proofs?
    Please enlighten us!

  20. on 27 Sep 2010 at 6:06 am 20.Severin said …

    15 Curmudgeon
    You meet the same unexplicable absurd again.
    If god is creator, who/what created him, and where is the beginning of his cause-effect chain. In a super god? Or in a super – super –super …god?

    If god was NOT created, why matter/energy should necesserily have been created.
    If god „just existed“, what is wrong with the statement „matter/energy just existed“?
    Intelligence?
    Matter/energy is perfectly intelligent having its immanent natural laws, that are part of it, not created by anyone/anything.

    Just what is wrong in such a logic?

  21. on 27 Sep 2010 at 11:31 am 21.Curmudgeon said …

    @”So what is this proof you speak of Cur?”

    We are here and we are quite complex. Laws and complexity do not and have never created themselves….unless you have proof to the contrary?

    Quote Hawkings? One of the most arrogant statements made by a man who has made many a statement later proven false. Stop worshiping a man and worship the one who mad it all happen.

    What or who is this fear of which you speak? What must I fear other than government?

  22. on 27 Sep 2010 at 5:08 pm 22.Severin said …

    21 Cumudgeon
    “We are here and we are quite complex. Laws and complexity do not and have never created themselves….unless you have proof to the contrary?”

    This is how an “evidence” looks like in the world of believers: it is true because I say so!
    Are you deliberately twisting arguments of the oposite side? Are you cheating?
    Yes, you are! You always do.

    Who said, ever, that anything CREATED ITSELF?

    Just as you claim your god “just exists” (without being created!), we claim matter/energy “just exist” (without being created).
    The logic we use for matter/energy is EXACTLY the same you use for god!
    The big difference is in obvious fact that matter and energy EXIST, as an axiom, no need to prove it, just touch it!

    You could say with the same logic: I am here, and I am quite stupid. But, don’t warry! Your existance itself does not prove you are stupid. It does not prove you clever either, especially when one considers your “arguments”.

  23. on 27 Sep 2010 at 7:27 pm 23.Horatio said …

    Cur

    You can’t argue with that sort of Sev logic!

    LOL, I have never seen a car manufactured but I have never believed they have always existed or that they created themselves.

    I like the Hawkings quote. He completely whiffed on black holes but somehow a guys in a wheelchair on a tiny little planet in the Milky Way can prove God does not exist. Well, he has hit another black hole. His neuro muscular dystrophy and his age (68)is beginning to show!

    Hey, I’m just using the logic of atheist when older atheist become theist.

  24. on 27 Sep 2010 at 9:36 pm 24.MrQ said …

    Hor

    “What is anti-scientific?”

    Tell me the steps it takes to determine that god created the universe? And how did you conclude that Jesus is your saviour because of it? Try and be scientific about it. Don’t include any drivel about seeing the light and requiring salvation because of stupid decisions in your past.

    As a bonus, care to ‘fess up how old you think the earth is? Just ball park the answer. Are we older than 6000 years? A million years? What science did you use?

  25. on 28 Sep 2010 at 1:02 am 25.Horatio said …

    Q

    Sure be glad to answer your questions. First answer mine. What is anti-scientific? Does it mean we refuse to use a coffee pots because it requires electricity? Maybe we don’t like cars, servers, routers or medicine? Please indulge the audience. We need to get a handle on this term.

  26. on 28 Sep 2010 at 2:37 am 26.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    OK, excellent. When one uses fairy tales as a base of belief of how life once was, such as thinking that the story of Adam and Eve (or Noah’s Ark) is a literally true account. Or basing a belief solely on the writings of an ancient book and disregarding any modern evidence which comes to contradict the belief, such as your favourite hot button issue, homosexuality. Putting a belief ahead of evidence.

    Your turn:
    Tell me the steps it takes to determine that god created the universe? And how did you conclude that Jesus is your saviour because of it? Try and be scientific about it. Don’t include any drivel about seeing the light and requiring salvation because of stupid decisions in your past.
    As a bonus, care to ‘fess up how old you think the Earth is? Just ball park the answer. Is our planet Earth older than 6000 years? 10,000 years? A million years? What science did you use?

  27. on 28 Sep 2010 at 5:35 am 27.Horatio said …

    Q

    LOL, Uh Huh, did you and Sev collaborate? Can you provide me a real scientific definition. As much as I respect your authority, um it just doesn’t cut the mustard, Sure it doesn’t mean we don’t believe in coffee pots?
    While at it, how old are you Q and do you believe science answers all questions? Why do you get angry ot babies in mangers, Christmas and movies about Jesus like The Passion? Be precise and to the point, none of this we don’t know drivel.

    Started to answer your question but thought I would use that as bait for your def.

    Thanks!

  28. on 28 Sep 2010 at 8:43 am 28.Severin said …

    23 Horatio
    “You can’t argue with that sort of Sev logic!”

    Of course you can’t!
    No one can!

    Who can accept statements like these:

    “God created universe.”
    “No one/nothing created god.”

    or:
    “God “just is”, without being created!
    “Matter/energy can NOT “just exist”, it MUST be created.”
    WHY? No one knows, no one can explain it, it just must be the truth because YOU said it!

    It is totally illogical, but I do not expect logic from you.
    Enjoy jour ignorance!

  29. on 28 Sep 2010 at 12:51 pm 29.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    “Started to answer your question but…”

    Nice dodge (is it a sin for you to be dishonest?…hmmm). Keep obfuscating and remember to keep it real simple. Your addled mind is only capable of “Goddidit”.

  30. on 28 Sep 2010 at 6:27 pm 30.Horatio said …

    Q

    So you cannot provide of definition of anti-science? I promise to answer your question as soon as you get that definition to me Q!!!

    That’s OK, Severin what about you, it was you word? Why do you hate babies in mangers?

  31. on 28 Sep 2010 at 7:03 pm 31.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    My bad. I thought an example would be sufficient. A definition is below. Strangely enough, it seems to define you.

    FROM:
    http://www.answers.com/topic/antiscience
    “People holding antiscientific views are generally skeptical that science is an objective method, as it purports to be, or that it generates universal knowledge”

    Your post #30 above:
    “I promise to answer your question as soon as you get that definition to me Q!!!”
    You got it, a definition and, prior to that, an example. Are you happy now?

    Your post #25 above:
    “Sure be glad to answer your questions.”

    OK, your turn, fire away. The questions, in case you’ve lost track, are posed in my post #26, above. And I would absolutely love it if you could stay the course for an exchange.

  32. on 28 Sep 2010 at 7:29 pm 32.Horatio said …

    Huh, you know you definition is not eve close? I’m glad I asked for a real definition. You have proven yourself to be dihonest and unreliable. So are you part of the Liberal antiscience? LOl

    You questions as promised:

    1. The steps God took to create?

  33. on 28 Sep 2010 at 7:33 pm 33.Horatio said …

    Huh, you know you definition is not even close? I’m glad I asked for a real definition. You have proven yourself to be dishonest and unreliable. So are you part of the Left wing antiscience? LOL

    You questions as promised:

    1. The steps God took to create? The Big Bang. Steps depends on the model you accept.

    2. Jesus is my savior because He saved me from my sin. It is not connected to creation.

    3. The earth I last checked is about 4.5 billion years old.

    Now, your turn. I believe that would be #27, yes?

  34. on 28 Sep 2010 at 8:08 pm 34.MrQ said …

    “did you and Sev collaborate?” No.
    “Can you provide me a real scientific definition.” OK. See definition and link above.
    “Sure it doesn’t mean we don’t believe in coffee pots?” You do, don’t you? Believe in coffee pots and electricity, that is.
    “how old are you Q” Old enough. What difference does it make?
    “and do you believe science answers all questions?” Very many, Yes. All, not yet…. but perhaps it may help us reach a universal understanding/concensus. Religion certainly will not unless you find a way to convert everyone to your level of mind funk.
    “Why do you get angry ot babies in mangers” I get angry?
    “Christmas” Yes, we celebrate. Just like Halloween…. in a secular kind of way. It’s all about the fat man in the red suit for me and my kids at xmas and we even dress up for All Hallows’ Eve.
    “movies about Jesus like The Passion?” Didn’t see it. Saw the Last Temptation though and it didn’t upset me or make me angry.
    “Be precise and to the point, none of this we don’t know drivel.” I tried not to respond with a single “I don’t know” to your queries. Did I pass?

    Congratulations to Hor. He is slowly coming out and unveiling himself as a true scientist. I always thought you were a biblical literalist. My bad.

  35. on 28 Sep 2010 at 8:35 pm 35.Horatio said …

    “My bad”

    Indeed I am use to liberal with tunnel vision.

    Hey I thought you would be interested. I had a new HD Electra Glide wash upon the beach last week. I deduced that natural selection produced the unit over the last 25 millions years. Energy, raw material and processes are available in nature. No need to work in an unnecessary deigned and creator.

    I am coming around my man Q.

    You celebrate Santa? Being dishonest to your kids like that is just plain child abuse.

  36. on 28 Sep 2010 at 9:48 pm 36.MrQ said …

    Hor
    “I deduced that natural selection produced the unit over the last 25 millions years.”
    No. But close. It would have started with the rudimentary stone implements hacked out by our ancient ancestors. Slowly, over the course of countless generations, we came to understand and manipulate our surroundings like no other animal on the planet. Or maybe god just put it there for your pleasure. Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz.

    “You celebrate Santa? Being dishonest to your kids like that is just plain child abuse.”
    Yeah, I know. I didn’t force the young ones to believe but the prospect of booty was too great. Now the eldest has figured out that the story of the big fat man in the red suit is just a myth (this was preceded by her discovery of the tooth fairy lie) but she is a real trooper by helping wifey and I keep the lie afloat for the two younger ones. So the “abuse” continues.

  37. on 29 Sep 2010 at 12:11 am 37.Xenon said …

    Interesting Horatio. I have never seen a Harley chiseled from stone yet The story fits what atheist believe to the letter. Yet, they still can’t see how silly their belief is in this light. Actually your Harley is more likely considering its limited complexity. My wife was looking at this with me and is laughing hysterically. Sorry, I didn’t see her looking there guys.

    If I was an atheist I would be heading to a beach.

  38. on 29 Sep 2010 at 1:08 am 38.MrQ said …

    Sorry for the confusion there gas bag and Mrs. gas bag. My profound apologies. But at least the old lady had a good laugh.
    X, maybe she’ll be in a good mood tonight and you can score some poontang. You owe me buddy.

    I did make it kind of simple, didn’t I? Maybe too simple. I should have mentioned the part about evolution. But I thought that was apparent when I wrote “over the course of COUNTLESS GENERATIONS, we came to UNDERSTAND and MANIPULATE our SURROUNDINGS like NO OTHER animal on the planet.” Any questions? Is the concept of evolution beyond your grasp/comprehension?

  39. on 29 Sep 2010 at 3:23 am 39.Hell Yeah said …

    I think it is funny how you guys think that because we created cars and bikes, that a supernatural being must have created us. First of all, we evolved from a simple life form that was created from the right environment. Keep in mind, the right enviroment occured in a small spec of the universe. You must ask yourself why God wasted so much space in the universe to have a spec of something intelligent that he designed. Why not make more of the universe useful? Or was it a random low percentage chance that our small spec formed? The latter is more plausable. Second of all, why didn’t God create the bikes and cars? Why did we have to? Third of all, bikes and cars didn’t evolve on it’s own from a single spark plug. Oh, wait, that is right, you don’t believe in evolution. You think we came designed how we are today from a single poof and a rib. Get the idea?

    By the way, I am still waiting for the answer from you believers on who or what created God. Since he is complex he must have a creator as well, since we were created and we created bikes and cars.

  40. on 29 Sep 2010 at 7:03 pm 40.Observer said …

    Hor- Your stupidity never ceases to amaze. What with the comments on the Harley Electra Glide we can see your tastes are as sophisticated as your intellect.

    Splendid and thanks for a midday chuckle.

  41. on 30 Sep 2010 at 2:05 am 41.Horatio said …

    Buster

    We all know your taste more along the the lines of a moped. Beep Beep! manly man.

    LOL

    X I certainly understand why the wife got a laugh. I am more likely to believe a HD designed and manufactured itself with absolutely no intelligence than a human being. Then again i am not the intellectual giant as a Buster.

  42. on 30 Sep 2010 at 3:13 am 42.MrQ said …

    “I am more likely to believe a HD designed and manufactured itself with absolutely no intelligence than a human being.”

    Wow…The depth of the stupidity is truly astounding. Hor, re-read what you wrote.

  43. on 30 Sep 2010 at 10:56 pm 43.Horatio said …

    Q-less

    So tell me why a Harley couldn’t evolve from nature, lol with no creator, but a Man supposedly did? Please share with us why. Hmm, seems more likely.

    Wasn’t all matter without life in the beginning? cricky!- I bleiev it was……

  44. on 30 Sep 2010 at 11:42 pm 44.Hell Yeah said …

    Hor,
    Man is just a combination of chemical reactions that respond to their environment. Started off simple and with reactions to the environment (our mind is an evolved part of these reactions) evolved over a long period of time to what we are today. Only certaion types of combinations can create this. Metal can only do minimal things when combined with other elements. One of those things isn’t evolving. Bikes are a tool that man created to help them react to their enviroment to get around better.

    Now please answer my question from my last post and other posts that you keep ignoring. Who or what created your God besides your imagination?

  45. on 01 Oct 2010 at 1:27 am 45.Curmudgeon said …

    Aluminum makes up about 8% or the earths crust and is the most abundant element after silicon and oxygen. So why not a motorcycle rather than flesh? A bike is in reality much more likely. They are not overly complex.

    Your simplistic synopsis of the formation of man is laughable. It is clear you have no understanding of the incredible complextiy of the homosapien much less just one cell.

    Responding to one of your questions is like responding to a 4 year old. Now back to your ABCs.

  46. on 01 Oct 2010 at 2:13 am 46.Gillmer said …

    I think the intelligence of humans are being misunderstood by believers of this cult, trying to degrade God to people (Christians) that has firsthand experience of His powers and what he is capable of is laughable. Although you may not think it ,you are actually followers of satan, he uses you to try and negate the existence of God.

    It is going to be quite funny as well as scary, to see your faces when God comes to take his children. Think about it, you spend so much effort and time to “proof” God doesn’t exist, for what to gain? Nothing for you but for satan…. I am actually glad to see how scared he is of God, to get you to go to these extremes!! Praise the Lord for that!

    I am however going to pray, yes that’s right, pray for you and your soul.

    Greetings in God
    Gillmer

  47. on 01 Oct 2010 at 3:23 am 47.Hell Yeah said …

    “Responding to one of your questions is like responding to a 4 year old.”

    Afraid to answer my question I take it?

    ——–

    “It is clear you have no understanding of the incredible complextiy of the homosapien much less just one cell.”

    And I suppose billions of years of evolution cannot create great complexity. Is the number of billions to complex for you?

    ——

    “trying to degrade God to people (Christians) that has firsthand experience of His powers and what he is capable of” “you are actually followers of satan”

    Firsthand experience? LOL It is called tricking your own mind. Your God isn’t even capable to stop Satan, whom you say he created. Kind of hard to be a follower of something you don’t think exists. If I were Satan, what would stop me from actually appearing on earth and just start zapping everyone. Instead he only has the power to make me think he and God doesn’t exist….oooh, tough Satan he is….God might lose his powers if not enough people pray to him, oh, wait that is Zeus. I suppose I am a Haites worshiper now, too.

  48. on 01 Oct 2010 at 9:47 am 48.Severin said …

    30 Horatio
    “That’s OK, Severin what about you, it was you word? Why do you hate babies in mangers?”

    What was my word?

    Who hates any babies (except your god)?
    I don’t.

    Are you getting crazy, or what?

  49. on 01 Oct 2010 at 12:38 pm 49.Curmudgeon said …

    “And I suppose billions of years of evolution cannot create great complexity. Is the number of billions to complex for you?”

    You are brainwashed young man, When you can show me a system in nature that moves from the simple to the complex without intelligence in nature or in culture I’ll believe it. That is why a Harley is a great example. You would never believe if formed through evolution although all materials and resources are available in nature. Show me…

  50. on 01 Oct 2010 at 7:43 pm 50.MrQ said …

    Almight Hor spaketh thusly:

    “So tell me why a Harley couldn’t evolve from nature, lol with no creator, but a Man supposedly did? Please share with us why. Hmm, seems more likely.”

    Maybe it could have, but it didn’t. We, as Homo sapiens, are able to manufacture, engineer, create, envision, plan for, etc, all kinds of things such as the Harley, a stone axe, flint arrowheads, and synthetic life without the aid of an invisible man in the sky waving his magic wand. It’s called evolution. You’ve heard of that? Or maybe you are an anti-evolutionist ;-).

    However, your ideas may have merit. I have a great idea!! I STRONGLY urge you to spit your chaw, knock on the shacks of your extended family (gas bag, cur, et al) and find a place where y’all can get your ideas on a forum beyond this blog and the local outhouse door. Your ideas will need to be critically reviewed and assessed by people who are smart (unlike the low lifes posting on this blog). If (or should I say “WHEN”) your ideas get traction in the scientific community, then it will be mission accomplished and you’ll become famous, get rich, and appear on Oprah. You will be able to move up to that two story shack overlooking the swamp that you’ve always dreamed about.

    Good luck.

  51. on 01 Oct 2010 at 8:17 pm 51.Horatio said …

    Ha Ha Ha, Q-less you are precious. You have it backwards. You are the HUGE minority. Common sense doesn’t need approval but thanks anyway.

    Can’t seem to get the magic of the self designing Harley off the ground? (much less a universe)

    But no fear, you and your basement friends can’ sit around the laptop and tell each other how bright you are…

    BTW, yes we know about evolution. Another reason we know God is real. I have heard of slow but you are operating in the moron range there…

    Chow Q-less

  52. on 01 Oct 2010 at 9:22 pm 52.MrQ said …

    Hor

    “BTW, yes we know about evolution. Another reason we know God is real.”

    Who is the “we” that you speak of? The people the movie Deliverance was based on?

    I know how much you REALLY, REALLY want it to be true, that god is in control. But your idea is missing one small piece; that would be ANY REAL EVIDENCE. Too bad for you. You are just another clueless god of the gaps proselytizer. Bet your backwoods congregation buys it all, don’t they Cleatus.

  53. on 01 Oct 2010 at 9:38 pm 53.Curmudgeon said …

    Another brainwashed young man. It must be difficult only finding atheist to do all your thinking for you. Ad homenim blasts only prove you are out of ideas and therefore you are now irrelevant.

    I hope you find a Harley of Folly beach.

  54. on 01 Oct 2010 at 10:08 pm 54.MrQ said …

    Cur,

    “I hope you find a Harley of Folly beach.”

    Why? Has another one washed up on a beach? In my experience, you will often find a HD at a HD retailer. Mercedes Benz at MB retailers. All the merchandise is made by man using materials gathered from our planet Earth. This is a fact.
    Poof, god waved his magic wand and then there was a HD, this is fiction.
    Which world do you live in?

  55. on 01 Oct 2010 at 11:05 pm 55.Hell Yeah said …

    “When you can show me a system in nature that moves from the simple to the complex without intelligence in nature or in culture I’ll believe it.”

    Replicating DNA is a good example, isn’t it?

    By the way, still waiting for my answer on how the complex God was created.

  56. on 01 Oct 2010 at 11:25 pm 56.Rostam said …

    “Replicating DNA is a good example, isn’t it?”

    So when you have a baby Henrietta Yardsworth does that count as well? Where do they find these intellectual midgets?

    “still waiting for my answer on how the complex God was created.”

    Why does an atheist need to know how God was created? Shouldn’t you be worried about how the cosmos and life created themselves?

  57. on 01 Oct 2010 at 11:44 pm 57.Hell Yeah said …

    “Why does an atheist need to know how God was created? Shouldn’t you be worried about how the cosmos and life created themselves?”

    Come on, believers, quite jumping around my question. I am asking it because you claim a higher being had to create us, but you don’t question who or what created this complex higher being. If you cannot answer that then how do you believe this higher being had to create us? Can’t we cut out the middle man in this equation? Cosmos and life created themselves from matter and energy that has always existed in some form and when some of those elements happened to combine in certain rare conditions that is how life had it’s beginning. Billions of years of DNA self replicating and you get the picture.

  58. on 02 Oct 2010 at 8:41 am 58.Gillmer said …

    @Hell Yeah, LOL, see you didn’t have a real “come back” at my comment for supporting satan. Some more thought for you (hope you can grasp something that cannot be proven, ie. thought), but let’s try.

    Get a hammer, a friend and a table. Put you one hand on the table and hold the hammer in the other, let you friend stand by and watch. Now hit your hand on the table with the hammer real hard…. What do you feel, pain? Can you see it? Ask your friend if he can see it? No?

    Interesting… then it mustn’t exist! As your friend if he can feel the pain, no? So he cannot see it or feel it, ok so it is then proven that it doesn’t exist. That is how you “prove” theories work isn’t it. Well done lesson learnt.

    So if you can feel the pain but not see it, how can you say that I cannot feel God in my life when I cannot physically see Him…. We are comparing apples with apples here. I am sure a 4 year old will understand this lesson; if you don’t then we know where the problem lies…

    Still praying for you mate!

    Greetings in God

  59. on 02 Oct 2010 at 2:06 pm 59.Hell Yeah said …

    Still can’t answer my question on how God was created?

    Gill,
    Bad example (kind of laughable, actually). It is proven we all feel pain. It would be as if it was proven that we can all connect with God, and then I would say that others can’t because I can’t see them connect. And if the friend wants to feel similar pain, just hit him with the hammer as well. LOL. By the way, just as a side note, I used to be a Christian until I woke up one day to reality. I tried connecting wtih God while a Christian, I guess my imagination wasn’t working too well.

  60. on 02 Oct 2010 at 8:36 pm 60.Horatio said …

    “Cosmos and life created themselves from matter and energy that has always existed in some form and when some of those elements happened to combine in certain rare conditions that is how life had it’s beginning.”

    Really? This must be quite embarrassing for you. Where is your proof? You used the word above in the last post but your provide none.

    Where are your examples in nature that back this assertion? Come on HY, you keep make grand claims and you don’t support any of them with evidence. Be true to your atheist roots (until you wise up) and provide scientific evidence for every claim.

    I recognize your fallacy of digression but will not allow you off the hook so easy.

  61. on 03 Oct 2010 at 1:59 am 61.Gillmer said …

    @Hell Yeah, I think you missed the point, which brings me back to the 4 year old theory..

    Something else, God is our Father thus we are his children (trying to keep the language simple so you understand). When you were young and playing and you jumped from a place and your father was standing below, you trusted he will catch you, and unless he is sadistic he did. You don’t ask him, you just jump and trust. Same with God, we have an interaction with him and we jump and trust he will catch us. Quite simple actually. If you are wondering why I wrote this then you never really had a relationship with God when you “were a Christian”.

    You lived a lie. That is why you never felt the peace and serenity (opposite of pain) inside.

    Where does God come from? Who cares, he is your Father, he knows more than you do and knows what is best for you, we as children will never know more than our Father. Even you will not tell your child everything until he/she is mature enough to know what is needed at that age, even then they will never know as much as you. Remember that you have the years of experience behind you and know better. I feel God uses the same principle; we only need to know what we have to at this stage in our lives so we are protected.

    Still praying for you!

    NB: Thanks for the opportunity we have to talk about God to people who needs Him :-)

    Greetings in God.

  62. on 03 Oct 2010 at 2:02 pm 62.Hell Yeah said …

    “Really? This must be quite embarrassing for you. Where is your proof? You used the word above in the last post but your provide none.”

    Yes, it is so embarrasing that I get my knowledge from science and observation. LOL. Science is based on proofs and observation. Faith isn’t. Get it? Open up a science book instead of the bible.

    ———–

    “I think you missed the point, which brings me back to the 4 year old theory.”

    So because you don’t understand your own point, that I missed pointing out how your point isn’t good? And I am the one thinking like a 4 year old? Come on now. Your logic doesn’t make sense. I would jump into my father’s arms as a kid because I can physically see that he is there, and so can everyone else in the vicinity. The differnce with your God is that the faith there is blind. There is no proof that he is there. Do you not understand the logic there? You would hit the ground if you thought God would catch you.

    —–

    “Where does God come from? Who cares,”

    Actually, you should care, since you base your life on him you should know his origins to know if he is actually real. That is the problem with you believers, you don’t question anything that you believe in. You just “trust” that it is true without any proof or logic.

    So quit skipping around this important question of how God was created. Your whole reason for believing in a God is because you seek how we are created and think because we are complex, that a complex invisibile man in the sky had to create us, but the very question of how this complex invisible man in the sky was created scares you because it comes to the same conclusion as to the origin of our universe without a God. And if you don’t understand any of this, then who thinks like a 4 year old? You don’t question because the very thought of life without a God or an afterlife is scary. I wish there was a God and an afterlife, but wishing it doesn’t make it real. I like to live life in reality and not the make believe la la land. There is no such thing as the supernatural.

  63. on 03 Oct 2010 at 3:05 pm 63.MrQ said …

    you keep make grand claims and you don’t support any of them with evidence.

    Hor, au contraire, this sounds exactly like you. Remember, all you propose is: just use common sense, use your gut feeling, no need to research, it’s all in the bible and my god says so.

    C’mon, expand a little on what you TRULY think lest ye be thought an empty sanctimonious vessel. Yes, your minions can chime in with their bleats whenever necessary

    All life is sacred? …Or just us lucky humans? god is the “creator” of human or all life (from conception)? god is the driver of evolution? it is abundantly clear that you think all life rose from the Earth because of some wizardly acts by god,(YAWN) so there’s no need to re-hash that. But where does your idea go from there, Cleatus? See above for some suggested avenues that you can go down and answer. Flesh out your ideas and try not digressing.

  64. on 03 Oct 2010 at 6:09 pm 64.Severin said …

    60 Horatio
    “Really? This must be quite embarrassing for you. Where is your proof? You used the word above in the last post but your provide none.”

    You have only to touch something to have your proof that matter exists. You have only to feel acceleration in a car or a plain to see that energy exists.
    No such clear proofs that matter/energy always existed.
    If they did not, if (as YOU claim!) god made them, it is finally your turn to tell us how god was created. Who/what created him (it)?

    We can not prove matter/energy existed before the BB. We only THINK they did, in another form.
    Does it AUTOMATICALLY mean god made them?
    Absolutely not!
    We THINK matter/energy always existed, without cause, and changed forms according to natural laws.
    It has sense, it sounds logical, however we can not prove that claim.

    You DO claim god exists and god created matter/energy.
    If you DO claim it, and if you want to keep some integrity, you MUST tell us who/what created god!

    Maybe you only THINK god exists, but you are not sure?
    In that case it would be fair to tell us this fact (that you only THINK god exists).
    Otherwise, if you CLAIM it, you have to prove it.

    Your turn!

  65. on 03 Oct 2010 at 6:25 pm 65.Horatio said …

    “Science is based on proofs and observation. Faith isn’t. Get it? Open up a science book instead of the bible.”

    Yes, I agree however you keep on with theses grand ideas of whence creation came from yet you provide none of this science of which you speak. I am only asking you to live up to your own standards. Apply the scientific method here HY.

    Your minions are attempting to help you digress but I will push on for this “science” you claim to have available. Science is a fascinating field and I do dearly strive to stay abreast of these new developments.

  66. on 05 Oct 2010 at 2:09 am 66.Thomas said …

    So this comes to to:

    Energy and matter existed forever or
    God has existed forever?

    The ones claiming they live their life by science are the hypocrites here. Not one shred of evidence following the scientific model supports matter and energy having always existed. The fact we can touch both lends no credence to the argument.

    The argument that the universe shows many signs of design and intelligence actually is an argument based on observation which follows the scientific model much more closely allowing one to conclude a designer was indeed involved.

  67. on 05 Oct 2010 at 7:04 am 67.Severin said …

    66 Thomas
    “…allowing one to conclude a designer was indeed involved.“

    So, it comes to:
    „Thing No. 1“ (god), in all its complexity, is LOGICAL and ACCEPTABLE to exist without being created by anything/anyone. It is logical and acceptable for such a complex „item“ to „just exist“, without any cause or beginning. It was NOT necessary for it to be created.

    „Thing No. 2“ (matter/energy) is NOT logical and acceptable to exist without being created. It is unaccpetable for such an „item“ to „just exist“ without cause and beginning. It HAD to be created!

    Now, please, explain: based on what logic is permitted to apply different criterions to the same thing?
    Because you say so?

    Matter/energy IS intelligent! Natural laws ARE immanent to matter/energy!

    Why not just put: matter/energy/natural laws = „god“.

    It was not created, it „just exists“, it changes according to its own, immanent „intelligence“ (natural laws)…, what is wrong with it, and is not wrong for a „god“, or v.v.?

    Of course, such a „god“ has nothing to do with idiotic stories written in millions of religion writings (I include here all possible religion writings ever written on stones, paper, papirus, clay plates, legends…)

  68. on 05 Oct 2010 at 6:20 pm 68.Xenon said …

    Matter and energy is intelligent?

    What?

    Thomas you won the debate hands down. I think the matter and energy being intelligent swung the tide. Why Severin hates science I will never understand. He just throws out these craziest fairy tales.

  69. on 05 Oct 2010 at 8:03 pm 69.Oberver said …

    Is Thomas a new troll? I have come to the conclusion several times that Xenon, Hor, Rostam, Biff, et al. are all trolls. But then the inert windbag Xenon writes something and it is so pathological, juvenile, and twisted like the above comment, it makes me believe this guy is really is a Christian. A troll, no matter how good, could not pull off creepy-slimey comments like the Xenon byline. Xenon is a Christian.

  70. on 06 Oct 2010 at 6:28 am 70.Severin said …

    68 Xenon et al,
    Thing A:
    Detectable by all immaginable means. Obviously existing. Obviously very complex, but undersandable and explicable. Having complex and stable inherent laws that it follows precizely. Existing at least 13.5 billion years in huge amounts…

    Thing B
    Undetectable by any means. Untill now exists only in imagination of people, in extremely different forms. Not understandable and unexplicable. Not following any laws. No evidences it ever existed in any amount, except in religious writings and pictues, in form of: serpents, monkeys, clouds, sun, moon, elephants, cats, invisible and incorporeal spirit, wind, lightning, bearded man making man from mud, bearded man who kills babies for fun, other men/spirits making people from other materials…

    Thing B created Thing A, say Xenon et al!

    Why should anyone having one single cell of brain believe such stupid thing?
    How many cells are there in your head(s)?

  71. on 06 Oct 2010 at 11:52 am 71.Xenon said …

    There are 70 trillion cells in the human body Sevein. They are even extremely complex. A cell was designed with purpose and created just like a city.

  72. on 06 Oct 2010 at 2:36 pm 72.Severin said …

    71 Xenon
    Thank you, Xenon!
    My question about cells was only figurative, and you know it.

    Why don’t you try to answer how a detectable and complex thing (“Thing A”) was created by a never detected (imaginary) thing (“Thing B”).

    Try it for yourself, I do not need your answer.
    Or, try it for us! Make us lough!

    BTW, if universe (nature) was designed, why would an intelligent creator bother and waste resources designing so many different species of poisonous snakes?
    So many species of … everything?

    WHY all those galaxies with trillions of stars?
    To shock you?
    To show you how clever and mighty he was?

    Intelligent reasons!

  73. on 06 Oct 2010 at 5:22 pm 73.Xenon said …

    “try it for us! Make us lough!”

    OK, the universe created itself and matter and energy have existed forever!

    Pretty good, huh?

  74. on 06 Oct 2010 at 5:46 pm 74.3D said …

    73.Xenon said …

    “try it for us! Make us lough!”
    OK, the universe created itself and matter and energy have existed forever!

    Why is that any worse than “a man created himself, made people out of dirt, and breathed a soul into his mucus membrane”? You believe that dumb shit, don’t you?

    At least ‘matter always existed’ doesn’t come with a Chapter II of “matter has magical powers and doesn’t like it when you masturbate”.

    Pretty good, huh?

    Yes, I have to admit that was a pretty good imitation of a dumbass creationist; but you forgot the part about ‘we ain’t come from no goldurn monkeys’ and ‘gravity is just a trick of the dang ol’ devil!’

  75. on 06 Oct 2010 at 7:51 pm 75.Severin said …

    73 Xenon
    You can not induce laugh by saying something logical.

    Try your way, we like humor.

  76. on 06 Oct 2010 at 8:45 pm 76.Horatio said …

    X,

    ROTFL, that was classic!

    Oh wait, do some actually believe that? Sorry guys…….

  77. on 07 Oct 2010 at 2:50 am 77.Hell Yeah said …

    “OK, the universe created itself and matter and energy have existed forever!” “Oh wait, do some actually believe that? Sorry guys…….”

    And that is laughable, where as a God who created himself out of nothing isn’t, and somehow became or always was intelligent, infinitely exists, and created a universe that is 99.99999% full of wasted non-intelligently designed space that is only 6,000 years old. And the second part of this laughable story is that this God created an afterlife and watches over us and only connects with those that truly believe in him while he only showed his only supposed proof of existence during the middle ages where the only way of recording it is with scrolls. And this God created the devil which in turn created evil, while God represents good and created everything including this devil, but this God can not stop this creation of his, but God was also evil himself in stories, but true believers block that out or just pass it over while believing other magic exists like talking snakes, walking on water, and parting of the sea, but none of that has ever been seen since except with situations that are shown magic tricks where the trick is revealed……should I go on?

    Still no believer wants to challenge the question of how God was created, do they? And Hor, I am not a scientist and didn’t make the discoveries of science that can point to how we were created other than what I have stated in earlier posts, so how can I show these proofs to you in a paragraph other than pointing out different areas of science that point to it? Kind of lame where your only argument that you can come up with is prove it, when you can’t even prove the simplist thing that your main variable God even exists. My main variable, matter and energy, we know exists. So to sum up, something we know exists is more reasonable to have always existed in some form than something we haven’t proven to exist to have always existed and created the something that we know exists. And to those of you who believe in an afterlife, how in the heck does that even come from an intelligent designer of the universe? That story was a made up story that stemmed from the other made up story. But because one made up story tries to make a point, the other story automatically is true? Now that is laughable. I can’t wait to see this response so I can laugh even more. Bring it on!

  78. on 07 Oct 2010 at 8:18 am 78.Gillmer said …

    Well, while we are on Earth I guess we will never know where God came from, nor will we know how the Earth or the Universe was created.

    Point is that no one can prove any of this, if we cannot prove where the Earth or Universe came from but still accept it “because we can see it” and also accept something like pain and anger which we also cannot physically “see” with our eyes, why can’t you accept that God also exist and even created it for us?

    I can feel God talking to me just like you feel pain or anger, I cannot see it but it IS there. I ask him things and he DOES provide it, especially when I keep nagging him about it. That is my “proof” as you call it, and since it happened so many times it cannot be co-incidence as you claim everything to be.

    Maybe it is like I mentioned earlier, you actually never knew God and thus didn’t experience him in your life. This is a great pity because you now made a conscious decision NOT to know him and just live with the emptiness and questions that you clearly illustrate you have. I feel for you as you live a life (that you cannot prove really exist by the way) full of nothing, no meaning, no use and no purpose.

    Greetings in God

  79. on 07 Oct 2010 at 10:42 am 79.Severin said …

    78 Gillmer
    “This is a great pity…”

    How could you know it is pity?
    Are you feeling pity because you are a Christian and not a Muslim, for example?
    Have you ever tried to be an atheist or a Muslim, to be able to compare?

    Muslims would probably say it was pity for you to be a Christian.
    How can you find out what is pity and what is not pity here?

  80. on 07 Oct 2010 at 11:47 am 80.Hell Yeah said …

    “I can feel God talking to me just like you feel pain or anger, I cannot see it but it IS there.”

    Everyone feels pain or anger. If you feel God talking to you, it is your conscience talking to yourself, just an illusion. Just like when someone is walking in the desert for a long time without water, they keep thinking they see water, but what is really happening is that because you want to believe it so bad that your mind is telling you it is real. Take a psycology course if you don’t understand concepts like that.

    ————–

    “I ask him things and he DOES provide it”

    Please give specific examples. I am sure they are coincidences based on random events that also are caused from your decision making, nothing more. For example, “God, please provide food for me today”. Then you go to the grocery store and there is food, this doesn’t mean God put it there for you.

    —————–

    “I feel for you as you live a life (that you cannot prove really exist by the way) full of nothing, no meaning, no use and no purpose.”

    Actually, it is the opposite. I feel for you because you are a slave to something that isn’t real and wasting your life trying to meet the needs of something that doesn’t exist. When I realized religions are all made up, it was actually a great release and I feel free. I don’t have to worry about pleasing an invisible man in the sky. I can do what I want and cherrish my life even more because I know there is no afterlife that I will get to. Life is short, so I try to make the most of it. And I love sleeping in on Sundays.

  81. on 07 Oct 2010 at 12:26 pm 81.Horatio said …

    “My main variable, matter and energy, we know exists. So to sum up, something we know exists is more reasonable to have always existed in some form than something we haven’t proven to exist to have always existed and created the something that we know exists.”

    Actually my confused friend, NO! Matter and energy have been proven not to be intelligent and it does not have the capability of creating and designing. Matter and energy having always existed is unprovable and therefore does not meet the burden of proof. Remember, atheist only believe what can be proven. Therefore the answer lies in a Creator.

    You could go the the argument one atheist made here. I quote “It only appears deigned and created to man”.

    I think he was an ET believer of some sort. Not sure.

  82. on 07 Oct 2010 at 12:31 pm 82.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    When you get a chance, see post #63 above and mesmerize the crowd with the depth of your intelligence by supplying some answers. Be a big boy – quit stalling, stop digressing, and try not obfuscating.

  83. on 07 Oct 2010 at 1:20 pm 83.Observer said …

    Hor- You are an imbecile. Months ago I put up several links related to the work of Iliya Prigogine. He won a Nobel Prize for his work on, now get this clear English description, “Self-Organization”.

    It is very difficult stuff, and you are incapable of understanding it regardless of how many decades of study you might put into it. Regardless, you should defer to your intellectual betters, and try to understand that this is observed fact. The theory not only explains, but predicts. Again, it involves terribly difficult math, but is a fact.

    Now please quite your idiotic “Matter and energy have been proven not to be intelligent and it does not have the capability of creating and designing. ” It all depends on what you mean by intelligent. There is ample proof that if an entity were capable of creating a human, then they were either a perverted sadist, or a fucking idiot.

    Hor- Please try to grow up and/or learn something from the thousands of people who are better than any fundamentalist Christian.

  84. on 07 Oct 2010 at 2:09 pm 84.Lou said …

    If Observer and Mr Q attacked the questions as much as they attack the person, the questions would have been answered many posts ago.

    Unfortunately for the community of bloggers, they can offer no plausible narrative and much like the proverbial dog backed into a corner, they offer nothing more than attacks.

  85. on 07 Oct 2010 at 3:17 pm 85.Boz said …

    Nose Buster and the Q still posting their elitist commentary. With all that knowledge and talent shouldn’t they have found their way out of mom’s basement?

    Let me be clear. The universe was not the product of random chance of matter and energy that has existed forever. I had to laugh as I typed that. It was created. Let me make an appeal to authority. Most scientist believe a creator was involved! Egad man, get a clue and join the rest of civilization.

  86. on 07 Oct 2010 at 4:58 pm 86.Joe said …

    Boz, I suggest you check out this:

    http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html

    Obviously, the majority of scientists do not believe there is a personal God, hence they do not believe there was a creator.

  87. on 07 Oct 2010 at 6:07 pm 87.Boz said …

    Odd, I have this poll that shows just the opposite. From a much more credible source for God or higher power. Therefore the majority of scientist believe there is a creator. Not that it matters. Scientist are not experts in theology but some believe everything scientist tell them with out question. Therefore it is time to believe!

    http://pewforum.org/Science-and-Bioethics/Scientists-and-Belief.aspx

  88. on 07 Oct 2010 at 6:24 pm 88.Joe said …

    Your poll seems to be as credible as mine. That the numbers are different is no surprise because the statistical population was a different one. (My poll referred to NAS members, while yours referred to members of the AAAS.)

    If you read the results of the survey you linked you will find out that only 33% of AAAS members believe in God. So you can conlude that less than 33% believe in creation. Hardly a majority.

  89. on 07 Oct 2010 at 7:51 pm 89.MrQ said …

    Boz,

    Most scientist believe a creator was involved! Egad man, get a clue and join the rest of civilization.

    Therefore the majority of scientist believe there is a creator.

    In my part of the world, the words ‘MOST’ and ‘MAJORITY’ have slightly different definitions than you are attempting to ascribe them: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/most
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/majority

    Did you even check the pewforum link which you provided in post #87? I suggest that you have another look. But look up the definitions first!!

    Who is going to believe anything you attempt to spew from now on? You are a proven liar and have irrevocably proven your dishonesty. I expected as much from your ilk.

    Maybe one day you’ll “get a clue and join the rest of civilization”

  90. on 07 Oct 2010 at 8:54 pm 90.Biff said …

    51% believe in God or higher power
    41% Do not believe in any

    The 41% probably include some Buddhist in there and other religions falling under that banner. Therefore the atheist number is probably even smaller.

    Any politician would call that a clear blow out or majority/most any way you slice it. Then you must consider those who said “no” due to the political pressures.

    The pew forum is also trustworthy unlike Gould.

    MrQ harness your anger and deal with reality.

  91. on 07 Oct 2010 at 9:04 pm 91.Boz said …

    If you drop down a little further in the Pew survey to the pie charts you will find only 17% are atheist. Hey throw agnostics in there and you get another 11%. For Q that is a total of 28%.

    Next add up all those professing a religion is 48%.

    48% < 28% which makes up most and/or majority even according to Qless links.

    The general population is only 4% atheist. Q, accept the fact you live in some fairytale land. Get a Q.

    Q I realize your are feeling marginalized, inadequate and maybe even a little like a buffoon. Maybe you should listen to those feelings.

  92. on 07 Oct 2010 at 10:03 pm 92.MrQ said …

    Boz/Biff,

    I looked at Pew and saw:
    For the scientists
    33% believe in god
    41% DON’T BELIEVE in god
    18% DON’T BELIEVE in god, but believe in a higher power.

    I see that as (41+18)=59% don’t believe in god.
    And 33% believe in god. Hmmmm…. which number is bigger? I am real poor at math.

    Maybe the question to the scientists should have been: Do you think god created the universe? Clearly, 59% would say NO, I DON’T BELIEVE in god. Keep skewing and stretching. I am sure y’all are used to looking at life with the god filter firmly in place. And I know how much you want the fairy tale to be true. Awww shucks, sorry. But that’s OK, boys. It all just boils down to faith (aka does not require proof) so take a pill and relax.

  93. on 07 Oct 2010 at 10:14 pm 93.Boz said …

    Atheist? Higher power? So atheist grab the higher power group, eh?

    LOL, afraid to view the pie chart? Well, I don’t blame you. If I was an atheist I wouldn’t either.

    Theistic evolutionist like Francis Collins make up the largest number of scientist in the creation realm.

    Since you are horrible at math let me help you with that one. If you believe in God or a higher power, you will naturally believe the powers involvement in evolution. Keep wiggling Q by changing the goal post!

    The facts hurt. Cut your losses and move on my boy.

  94. on 07 Oct 2010 at 10:32 pm 94.MrQ said …

    Boz,

    Atheist? Higher power? So atheist grab the higher power group, eh?

    Let me help you out, old boy.
    I know dementia can be a real bitch. But thanks for re-proving my point.

    The definition of atheist is:
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
    “One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.”

    How does that square with the pew survey “DON’T BELIEVE in god, but believe in a higher power.” ? Sound like atheists, don’t they?

    Thanks, and keeping digging.

  95. on 07 Oct 2010 at 10:52 pm 95.Horatio said …

    You Pissed- off Q-less.

    Well, does this mean atheist now believe in higher powers? You guys are so confusing. Ah, crap do you now believe in a Creator, a Sustainer and a Omnipotent being? So what are we arguing about. Call the being higher power and all is good.

    Could the American Atheist round you guys up and figure out what you believe? I think The Superdome could get all of you in with no problem.

  96. on 07 Oct 2010 at 11:11 pm 96.Hell Yeah said …

    Fairy Tale definition = a story for children about fairies or other imaginary beings and events, often containing a moral message. …..hmmm, sounds like the imaginary God, Jesus, talking snake, every other religion, etc….

    And again, skipping an important question. Who or what created God? Did God create himself? Did God always exist? You claim matter and energy could not have always existed in some form, but a God could? How did God gain this intelligence from nothing? Relate your same tactics about the creation of matter and energy (which proves to exist) to the creation of your fairy tale God (no proof of existence) and you will get the idea.

  97. on 08 Oct 2010 at 1:02 am 97.MrQ said …

    Horatio grabs a shovel.

    Don’t blame me. I thought if someone wants to post their musings on this blog they should at least have a working understanding of the English language. Otherwise, how do we debate if you always need an education in English definitions.

    Not pissed off, just ROFLMAO. Go Cleatus, keep digging.

  98. on 08 Oct 2010 at 7:00 am 98.Gillmer said …

    God is like the wind, you can’t see it, you can’t touch it but you can feel it, but only if you don’t block yourself from it.

    Being scared to give yourself over to God is understandable, once you do it though it is great!

    The comments that keep on coming up to motivate that God doesn’t exist is all very shallow and not well thought through, seems to be all based on very platonic things, and the grocery comment is not even close.

    Send me an email and we can talk about it more privately.

  99. on 08 Oct 2010 at 12:05 pm 99.Biff said …

    Q

    We don’t blame you. You have been brainwashed by other cult members. We have already proven that your religion has been around for millenniums yet the numbers remain cult like. get well.

  100. on 08 Oct 2010 at 1:17 pm 100.MrQ said …

    Biffy

    A favour for MrQ, please. Next time when the extended family is sitting around the communal spittoon, could you say thanks to Boz for the excellent link that supports my view. It’s true – Sadly a minimum of 60% of all US scientists DO NOT BELIEVE that god created the universe. No intelligent designer, no magic man in the sky….. I guess it would be up to y’all to decide what “higher power” means to the scientists. Maybe it’s mathematical constructs, hypothetical musings, dark matter, or just plain laziness. Who knows? But it sure IS NOT GOD.

    Because I care, I typed this real slow, just for you. I hope you can follow along.

  101. on 08 Oct 2010 at 3:27 pm 101.Boz said …

    Bif

    Its OK, See he refused to look at the pie chart that show the real breakdown of religious beliefs. He closed his eyes and mumbled nanananananan!

    Just between us (He is delusional). He needs to be medicated.

  102. on 08 Oct 2010 at 3:44 pm 102.Observer said …

    First, Pew polls are an attempt to accommodate religion, and the organization is run by theists. Second, anyone honest, or mildly intelligent could sift through the dross, and see that the AAAS membership is comprised of all sorts of folks other than professional scientists- there are physicians, engineers, and all sorts of other folks. The NAS is the real deal. Of course, this was spelled out in detail by me months ago when this survey surfaced.

    The bottom line is that there are folks on this thread, Boz, the slimy Biff, doltish Lou, etc. with no intention of learning and bettering themselves, for whatever reason. Whether they have a psychological investment in, or derive their livelihoods from perpetuating the crude ignorance they espouse, one cannot say. But history is rife with the ignorant and dishonest who try to impede progress. We are merely seeing it firsthand in this forum.

    Finally, Lou, what is wrong with “elite”? It seems, if you had your way, we would send couch potatoes to the Olympics, deploy the old and infirm into battle, take folks with the worst board scores into med. school, etc. Only perversion of rational thought that religion demands will allow the tortured calculus that defines elite as bad.

    And Lou(t)- Why the obsession with “your mother’s basement”? Aside from the obvious psychological projection, there is no doubt a wealth of Freudian symbolism as well. How is the old girl doing big boy?

  103. on 08 Oct 2010 at 3:49 pm 103.Observer said …

    Sorry Lou, it isn’t you with the issues around your momma’s basement. The boy obsessed with his momma’s basement is the irrepressible doofus BOZ.

  104. on 08 Oct 2010 at 7:57 pm 104.Severin said …

    78 Gillmer
    “I ask him things and he DOES provide it, especially when I keep nagging him about it.”

    If millions of hungry children pray for food and die, and millions of people having lethal diseases pray for their lives, just to survive, and die, how arrogant must be one who thinks he gets „things“ from god because he „keeps nagging him about them“?

    What is it that makes you more precious in god’s eyes than innocent babies? Why is he giving you „things“ and let babies die without food, while their parents constantly and sincerely pray him to save them?
    Why are you more important to god than millions of true and sincere believers, most of them good people, many of which die every second, many of them probably in the middle of endless praying?

    Shall we now tell them all to stop praying and to start nagging?
    Maybe god likes nagging!?
    Do you expect better results with nagging than with just praying?
    Maybe you have found the formula to save human race!

    Please!?

  105. on 08 Oct 2010 at 8:09 pm 105.Severin said …

    81 Horatio
    “Matter and energy have been proven not to be intelligent and it does not have the capability of creating and designing.“

    Who proved it? When? Please provide some sources to this issue!

    Your god did not know anything about inbreeding problems and ordered mating between brothers and sisters.
    Unlike your ignorant god, nature, somehow, „adjusted“ things to avoid mating between close relatives. Even plants have complex mechanisms to avoid self – polinating.

    Nature itself strictly follows many precize rules, which could not be imposed bu such an ignorant, unintelligent god, who does not know better but to pick mud.

  106. on 08 Oct 2010 at 10:23 pm 106.3D said …

    104.Severin said …

    78 Gillmer
    “I ask him things and he DOES provide it, especially when I keep nagging him about it.”
    If millions of hungry children pray for food and die, and millions of people having lethal diseases pray for their lives, just to survive, and die, how arrogant must be one who thinks he gets „things“ from god because he „keeps nagging him about them“?
    What is it that makes you more precious in god’s eyes than innocent babies?

    Stupidity plus narcissism.

    This has been another edition of “Simple Answers to Easy Questions.”

  107. on 08 Oct 2010 at 11:19 pm 107.3D said …

    98.Gillmer said …
    God is like the wind, you can’t see it, you can’t touch it but you can feel it, but only if you don’t block yourself from it.

    You’re only on the first sentence of your first post here and you’re screwing up already.

    You can’t touch it but you can feel it? We can “touch” the wind whenever it touches our skin. We can also measure it. If a scientist in the US and a scientist from all the way across the world stand in the same field and measure the wind, both of them get the same results, every time.

    Neither of those is the case with God. People from within the same damn religion can’t even agree about what God wants, his nature, when the universe was created, and on and on. Let alone what all the other cultures in history and across the current world have come up with.

    That’s because everyone is making up their own rules about God to conform to what makes them comfortable. If something good happens to you, God is looking out for you! If something bad happens, God has a reason for it beyond our understanding. Unlike science, you’re making it up as you go along.

    If you value what is real over what makes you feel the most warm and squishy inside, you can start seeing the world as it really is.

  108. on 09 Oct 2010 at 2:03 am 108.Gillmer said …

    Guys guys, please is a circle round or does it just seem round? The “anti God” comments are like this.

    Are you a lot of pre-schoolers?

    If YOU can touch the wind physically, take some into the house and let it blow you cool for hours.

    And then stop using those drugs or wake up as you coffee is getting cold.

    What you are saying doesn’t make sense and cannot be proven, whoooaa can’t wait to see the comments now as how dare I go against your stupidity!

    God bless and good luck to you when He comes, you are going to need it as it is all you believe in…

  109. on 09 Oct 2010 at 3:07 am 109.Boz said …

    “Are you a lot of pre-schoolers?”

    Yes Gillmer, they are. How else can you explain the unrealistic beliefs of an atheist who represents 4% of the population? It is sad to see cults brainwash these people.

  110. on 09 Oct 2010 at 4:16 am 110.Hell Yeah said …

    “How else can you explain the unrealistic beliefs of an atheist who represents 4% of the population?”

    You can’t say that Atheists make up only 4% of the population. If we are talking believers in God versus non-believers, you need to throw in Agnostics and non-religous, because just because they won’t say absolutely for sure that there is no God, they are only saying that because of the hope that there could be. So for arguments sake, you should really add those percentages in there as well. Also, you do realize that polls can only be taken by a certain percentage of the population. Do you really think they would be accurate in this case since most atheists are afraid to admit they are atheists due to fears of persecution? Also, since most atheists don’t care about religion, do you really think they would be willing to take a poll on it? Also, since you are bringing up the point that atheists are only a small percentage of the population, then why is it that the more educated a person is the more likely they lean towards atheism or an agnostic? By using the argument that the mass majority believe does not make it accurate, it only shows that the mass majority are uneducated and easily tricked(it is hard to not want to believe in an afterlife when the thought is soothing that there could be if you hope enough). What percentage of the world population do you think has a college education? Does that mean non-college grads are smarter than college grads according to your veiwpoint?

    ————–

    “If YOU can touch the wind physically, take some into the house and let it blow you cool for hours.”

    Um, touching and feeling are the same thing.

    ———-

    “It is sad to see cults brainwash these people.”

    hmmm….aren’t cults religous movements? I don’t know about you, but I thought relgious people gather at a place to brainwash each other, which cults do.

  111. on 09 Oct 2010 at 8:18 am 111.3D said …

    108.Gillmer said …

    If YOU can touch the wind physically, take some into the house and let it blow you cool for hours.

    Or, I could just push this button on the little old A/C right here. Oh look, instant wind that keeps me cool. And I can feel it and everything.

    You are really arguing that if something doesn’t have a solid form that we can’t feel it? What kind of dumbass shit is that? You’re determined to live in the 1600s, where everything we can’t see is a demon or a ghost. Meanwhile the rest of the world marches on and keeps discovering stuff you don’t want to know about.

    We can measure wind. We can’t measure God, and when all of you try to say what God is, it’s different every time. Even the four or five Christian idiots posting here can’t agree on how old the universe is or other simple things like that. Because it’s all personal make-believe.

    What you are saying doesn’t make sense and cannot be proven, whoooaa can’t wait to see the comments now as how dare I go against your stupidity!

    If you would put forth an actual argument, you might get some more thought-provoking responses. Since all you’re doing is babbling incoherently, you get mocked. Try harder next post.

  112. on 09 Oct 2010 at 1:05 pm 112.A Romatic said …

    “Um, touching and feeling are the same thing.”

    I feel saddened at your ridiculous rant. But I can’t touch it.

    Oh the stupid, it hurts!

  113. on 09 Oct 2010 at 1:06 pm 113.A Romatic said …

    ‘You can’t say that Atheists make up only 4% of the population.”

    yes I can. Look at the poll in #87.

    Oh the stupid, it burns!

  114. on 09 Oct 2010 at 6:35 pm 114.Observer said …

    So what if atheists make up 4% of the population? My IQ puts me in the 0.01% ( at least ) of the population. I feel pretty damned good about that. I am OK not being amongst the hoi polloi.

    As for the simpleton above (Gillmer) talking about wind, and I presume he is not talking about the wind that indistinguishably breaks from his ass and mouth, he merely shows his primitive understanding of wind. What we call wind is the macro directional movement of the gas comprising our atmosphere. Wind refers to a process rather than material- think solar wind. But if you are implying that God is akin to breaking wind (farting in the vernacular) then I wholeheartedly agree.

  115. on 09 Oct 2010 at 6:37 pm 115.Observer said …

    Romantic- Your insipidness is revolting. Even Proust at his most queer does not rival you.

  116. on 09 Oct 2010 at 11:40 pm 116.Hell Yeah said …

    “I feel saddened at your ridiculous rant. But I can’t touch it.”

    I am sure you do realize that feel can mean different things, but one of them is the same as touch, which was the point I was making about the person who said touch and feel are different things.

    -feel-
    seem to yourself: to seem to yourself to be in a particular physical or emotional state
    cause particular sensation: to cause a particular physical or emotional sensation
    experience something: to experience an emotion or physical sensation

    Synonyms: texture, touch, sensation, impression, sense, finish, composition

  117. on 10 Oct 2010 at 3:55 am 117.A Romatic said …

    Observer

    You may have an high IQ, but you still are metally challenged. I mean do you really think you are better based on IQ? I used to run a 4.25 40 and recruited by no less than 30 schools. You know percent of the populace can do that? You are full of arrogance and lack humility which makes a human being worthy of admiration.

    You are a failure.

  118. on 10 Oct 2010 at 5:28 am 118.Gillmer said …

    Mark 6:11 “Whoever will not receive you nor hear you, as you depart from there, shake off the dust that is under your feet for a testimony against them.

    Assuredly, I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!”

    I am departing from this post. I will keep on praying for change in those that do not believe.

    God bless

  119. on 11 Oct 2010 at 6:48 am 119.Severin said …

    109 Boz
    “How else can you explain the unrealistic beliefs of an atheist who represents 4% of the population?”

    How can you explain beliefs of Maya? Can you prove them wrong?
    Can you explain beliefs of Muslims? Can you prove them wrong?
    How can you explain beliefs of 100% population of earth, only 500 years ago, that earth was the center of universe?

    It is quite possible that only 4% of population of earth are atheists.
    200 years ago there was 0% atheists on our planet!
    However, DISTRIBUTION of atheists is what matters!
    0% atheists in Iran, Afganistan, S. Arabia, South American countries….
    Significant % of atheists in countries which made big progress in education of their populations (especially Europe).

    More ignorant people, less atheists!

  120. on 12 Oct 2010 at 8:55 pm 120.Observer said …

    Romantic- Many many creatures on the Earth can run a 4.00 40. So what? Our species’ brains and our ability to do rational tasks are what has made us a success. It is wonderful you are able to run like one of our distant ancestors who had to chase down their dinner on a savannah. Do you think any school would have recruited you if there wasn’t perverse amounts of money sloshing around NCAA Div. I schools who field televise-able sports teams? If a Div i team could get away with fielding much cheaper to maintain rabbits for the same revenue, do you think they would have given you a look? Who knows, maybe they will just cut to the chase and convert arenas to casinos.

  121. on 12 Oct 2010 at 9:27 pm 121.Horatio said …

    AR,

    Well stated. You just describe George Washington quite well. I can’t say I recall his IQ but he had the “IT” factor that few possess while maintaining a nice balance humility. Quite the physical specimen as a young man may have not hurt either.

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