Feed on Posts or Comments 19 September 2014

Christianity &Islam &Judaism &Rationals Thomas on 09 Jul 2010 12:43 am

Why atheists are atheists

A simple, well-reasoned explanation of why atheists are atheists:

Many Christians have asked me why I am an athiest. Here is what I tell them

What could be simpler than that?

A longer version:

Why theistic belief in God is contemptible in the eyes of many atheists: a response to a question from a fellow redditor

More importantly, how could any intelligent person accept all the nonsense and baggage that comes with religion?

383 Responses to “Why atheists are atheists”

  1. on 09 Jul 2010 at 10:39 pm 1.Rostam said …

    “Belief that morality comes from authority and not reason.”

    This little tid-bit is in the link. Who could buy into such nonsense? This is an great reason why I could never be an atheist. A man in my community who happens to be atheist thought it reasonable to murder his wife since she was cheating on him. He still claims it was reasonable but the jury did not agree.

    Morality is a tough one for atheist since they they live in a delusion that there is no ultimate authority.

  2. on 09 Jul 2010 at 11:16 pm 2.Anonymous said …

    I guess Rostam needs the threat of hell not to kill people. Atheists seem to manage without such threats. I guess they are better people Even my soulless dog knows not to kill people.

    Given prison statistics, Christianity does not keep anyone from killing people. Heck, the threat of hell, can’t even keep priests from molesting children! Besides, the biblical god endorses murder on multiple occasions. He even tests Abraham by telling him to kill his son. Other people have also killed their children by imagining god telling them thing. (After all, there’s no way to tell a real message from god from a voice in your head.) Andrea Yates killed her kids to ensure their “happily ever after”. She believed they could bypass potentially going to hell, by dying young.

    People are not motivated by the magical things they don’t believe in. For example, all murderous regimes were non-Scientologists. This doesn’t mean that non-Scientology is what motivated them to kill. Theists have a hard time understanding this basic concept due to the brainwashing of religion. They want atheism to be more or mean more than their own lack of belief towards other religions or other supposed magical invisible beings– this is the only method they have of keeping themselves from realizing that their own beliefs are as goofy as the conflicting religions they reject. Theists play this silly mind game so they can keep feeling “good” about believing whatever irrational thing they’ve been told they are “saved” for believing in.

    Rostam is an excellent example as to what theism does to thinking.

  3. on 09 Jul 2010 at 11:59 pm 3.interested said …

    “This little tid-bit is in the link. Who could buy into such nonsense? This is an great reason why I could never be an atheist. A man in my community who happens to be atheist thought it reasonable to murder his wife since she was cheating on him. He still claims it was reasonable but the jury did not agree.”

    Please provide a link to a news story regarding this.

  4. on 10 Jul 2010 at 1:31 am 4.Horatio said …

    “I guess Rostam needs the threat of hell not to kill people. Atheists seem to manage without such threats.”

    Killing people does not send people to hell. Can you at least learn what Christianity is about before you attempt to disregard the faith? It really helps.

    Then again, maybe if your fellow atheist had this threat in China and USSR they would not be so quick to kill. That morality driven by reason is not working to well there.

    “Theists play this silly mind game so they can keep feeling “good” about believing whatever irrational thing they’ve been told they are “saved” for believing in.”

    Can you provide a link proving this? Thanks

  5. on 10 Jul 2010 at 3:30 pm 5.MrQ said …

    Thou shalt not kill and love thy neighbour. Wonder where those niceties came from? Hmmm….Any clue Horatio?

  6. on 10 Jul 2010 at 7:08 pm 6.Severin said …

    4 Horatio
    “Killing people does not send people to hell.”

    What?

    What DOES send people in hell?
    Adultery? Working on Sabbath/Sunday?
    Being a homosexual?

    Does your church allow you to kill without punishment?

  7. on 10 Jul 2010 at 9:00 pm 7.Horatio said …

    X,

    I hope you read this thread as support for arguments on previous thread. Sev doesn’t even know the fundamentals of the Christian faith, at least the many protestant denominations. The prosecution rest.

    Mr Q,

    Is that not from “The God Delusion”? lol

  8. on 10 Jul 2010 at 10:54 pm 8.Anonymous said …

    How do you get into heaven then?

  9. on 11 Jul 2010 at 1:15 am 9.A real-ist said …

    “Killing people does not send people to hell.”

    Exactly, because there is no such thing as hell or heaven. I think Hor is starting to get the idea. LOL But I do have to agree that a main belief behind Christianity is that killing someone willingly on purpose would send them to hell. Hor, give me an example why you think it isn’t a Christian belief? Otherwise, if someone kills another person all they have to do is pray for God to forgive their sin? How does someone go to hell then in your belief?

  10. on 11 Jul 2010 at 7:37 am 10.Severin said …

    Horatio, Xenon

    So now you are zig-zagging because you are unable to answer a very simple question!

    YOU claimed that “Killing people does not send people to hell.”

    Can you give a simple answer to the simple question:
    What DOES send people to hell?

    For example, shall I, by your opinion, go to hell after I die?

  11. on 11 Jul 2010 at 12:12 pm 11.Horatio said …

    gentlemen,

    To be such a group that knows the Bible so well, I thought certain you would know the basic tenets. Well, I will not share my belief since being only a man and not the keeper of heaven, my belief does not matter. If you read about the lives of David and Paul you would realize they were murderers.

    Look up the word repentance and then take a gander at these verses.

    Ep 2:8-9
    Rom 10:9
    Acts 16:31
    Jn 3:16
    Rom 6:1-23

  12. on 11 Jul 2010 at 5:11 pm 12.sitcom fan said …

    My whole problem is my lips move when I think.

    Sent from my iPad 4G

  13. on 11 Jul 2010 at 7:21 pm 13.Burebista said …

    Hor,

    Few atheist have ever actually read the Bible. They only cut and paste sections they don’t like. It is very similar to Obama and pretty much any subject but Arizona’s law specifically. Criticize what you don’t know.

  14. on 11 Jul 2010 at 8:44 pm 14.Severin said …

    Burebista, Horaio,

    It seems that the only thing you can do is to address to each other lamenting to your destiny of “ununderstood” ones.

    How very sad!

    Why don’t you try to answer simple questions instead?

  15. on 11 Jul 2010 at 9:09 pm 15.Severin said …

    11 Horatio
    “If you read about the lives of David and Paul you would realize they were murderers.“
    4 Horatio
    „Killing people does not send people to hell.“

    Are you proud of the fact that your religion does not punish murderers?
    How can you live in a society which DOES punish murderers?
    How can you live with YOURSELF having such a twisted and sick sense of morality?

    And, yes, can you answer a simple wuestion: if not murderers, who DOES deserves hell according to christian teachings?

    WHAT is christianity about? Unpunished murdering?

    Very simple questions! And you, a christian, have no answers!

    What do you expect of others if you have no clear vision of your own religion?

  16. on 12 Jul 2010 at 12:15 am 16.A real-ist said …

    “Few atheist have ever actually read the Bible. They only cut and paste sections they don’t like.”

    Kind of funny, because a lot of believers haven’t read the full bible either. They only read the passages that sound good to them. I used to attend church for many years and you would never hear them reading passages about murder and all the bad things God has done. Only the good things.

    And another thing I think is strange is for all those people that follow and read the bible, no one ever questions the very beginning that states God created light on one of the first few days and the sun the day after that. How can anyone reading that and actually understand the error there actually take the rest of the bible seriously?

  17. on 12 Jul 2010 at 6:27 am 17.3D said …

    13.Burebista said …

    Hor,
    Few atheist have ever actually read the Bible. They only cut and paste sections they don’t like. It is very similar to Obama and pretty much any subject but Arizona’s law specifically. Criticize what you don’t know.

    Let’s try this again.

    1. Do you think there’s a Hell?

    2. If so, do murderers go there?

    3. If murderers don’t go to Hell, who is Hell reserved for?

    Pretty simple questions. I can answer them pretty easily. How about you?

  18. on 12 Jul 2010 at 9:23 pm 18.Horatio said …

    “How can you live in a society which DOES punish murderers?”

    LOL, what are you talking about? We are talking about what sends someone to hell. Those verses I reference addresses the answers. Read them. It is better to have the Bible’s answers rather than my opinion.

    Pretty simple to look up a few verses, yes?

  19. on 12 Jul 2010 at 10:20 pm 19.3D said …

    18.Horatio said …

    LOL, what are you talking about? We are talking about what sends someone to hell. Those verses I reference addresses the answers. Read them. It is better to have the Bible’s answers rather than my opinion.
    Pretty simple to look up a few verses, yes?

    Yes! So let’s do it, and I’ll keep score on the Morality Scoreboard.

    Ephesians 2:8-9 — For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Hm. So far, it sounds like murderers can get into heaven if they believe in Jesus, while good people who are Buddhist or Muslim will be tortured for eternity in fire. Even if they cure the common cold or become a pediatrician and save thousands of children’s lives, if they don’t kiss Jesus’s loincloth-clad butt, they’re gonna burn with all the other heathens. Doesn’t sound very moral to me.
    Atheism 1, Bible 0.

    Romans 10:9 — That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

    .

    Uh oh! I’m sensing a pattern here. Murdering is OK, but not worshipping Jesus is really bad, punishable by damnation. Not the best example of moral guidance.
    Atheism 2, Bible 0.

    16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Yeah yeah. More “worship Jesus and it doesn’t matter who you murdered” stuff. But, interestingly enough, when Jesus is asked the same question, in Matthew 19:17, he says:

    “19:17 If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    In other words, the Old Testament laws still matter. (OK, some of those laws are pretty gruesome and nasty too, but at least he’s saying that what you do matters in the afterlife, not whose ass you kiss. It’s a step in the right direction.)

    So this is just one of many places where the Bible contradicts itself. But we can use this verse as an example that the Bible (at least sometimes) thinks that murdering people keeps you out of heaven, not just a lack of ass-kissing… even though you are trying to argue otherwise, for some strange reason.

    Anyway, I will give the Bible half a point on this one, because at least Jesus still thinks that who you killed while you were on earth is an important determining factor in whether you burn in hell or not, even if the other weirdos in the Bible don’t.
    Atheism 3, Bible 1/2

    John 3:16 — For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Oh yeah, the old “God had his son tortured and killed — why can’t you even eat your peas?!” quotation, used by parents everywhere for 2,000 to scare the shit out of their kids.

    Though I admit I never quite heard it used this way before, as a defense for why people can still get into heaven even if they murder people. 1/4 point to you for creativity.
    Atheism 4, Bible 3/4

    Romans 6:1-23

    This chapter is infamous for its ambiguity and for contradicting itself several times so I’ll leave you to give me your interpretation. You’re gonna need a big rally to catch up on the morality scoreboard, because so far you’ve posted 3 quotes that are morally reprehensible, 1 that weird and nasty, and one that is contradicted by other nearby parts of the Bible, so you have got your work cut out for you. Go for it!

  20. on 13 Jul 2010 at 12:06 am 20.MrQ said …

    http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog/?p=1425#comments

    Post #81 from above link, Hor throws a wicked curve.
    “I actually do not consider myself christian”

    Watch out 3D, you’re being set-up. Likely by an atheist parading around and pretending to be a very stupid Xtian.

    Remember, Hor wants to know why it’s “not right” to nail his sister? (same thread as above) Can’t be serious, or can he?

  21. on 13 Jul 2010 at 2:21 am 21.Horatio said …

    Oh, now I see 3. You need to read II Cor 5:17. I apologize, I sometimes assume atheist know more than they really do. You believe someone should go to heaven who has done enough good works? OK, what good works must you do and how much?

    I don’t know, you are hung up on this murder thing, which is a sin but I just don’t see a very large number of Christians partaking and using this loophole you think you have found.

    I understand you cannot understand salvation and the change it brings to the life of a true believer. Too bad, I pray you do. But one who has received of God’s forgiveness desires to live for God and to follow His precepts.

    Check out II Cor 5:17. That should really hit home.

  22. on 13 Jul 2010 at 2:27 am 22.Horatio said …

    Mr Q,

    Sorry, I meant to address your concern. I do not consider myself Christian and never use the term referring to my identity. You are correct and I am flattered you have kept up with my history.

    I hope it was time well spent? I am still Libertarian as well.

  23. on 13 Jul 2010 at 5:31 am 23.Severin said …

    21 Horatio
    “Read them. It is better to have the Bible’s answers rather than my opinion.”

    I did, of course, 1st time some 55 years ago and now again.
    Answers I found there are perfectly described by 3D, no need to repeat them

    „LOL, what are you talking about?“
    I am talking AMBIUGOUS MORALITY you are dealing with!
    There is no room for your „lol“ here!
    It was not me who claimed murdering of people was not wrong!

    The difference between you and me is in your accepting this ambiguous morality.

    I do not know what a „sin“ is! I PERFECTLY KNOW what is right and what is not. What I consider wrong, I never do and never JUSTIFY.
    I perfectly know that, by doing wrong I am doing something wrong to my fellow humans!
    In rare cases I can not clearly see the difference between right and wrong, I do NOT consult a priest, but a LAWYER! Such rare cases are NEVER about someone’s life …. maybe about where may I park my car, or something like that.

    There is NO questions in my head about what is right and what is not!
    A very simple rule I have in my head: never do to others what you would not like others to do to you! It MUST be that this rule was naturally built in my brain, as I remember the scene when I saw a policeman mistreating a drunk old man on the street when I was only 7.
    I came home and cried all day. This picture is still fresh in my memory!

    You have BIG problem!
    What is not a „sin“ MUST be right!
    If you are not punished for doing wrong (murdering), how can you understand it wrong?
    And this „good“ oposes both existing human laws AND NATURAL SENSE OF MORALITY of MOST humans.

    If you have similar personal feeling about right/wrong as I have, it must be that yoy SUFFER being „cut“ (divided) between two incompatible moral “codes”.

    I do not!
    I have no need to kiss anyone’s ass by accepting ANYTHING that violates my own “moral code” and the laws of the society I am living with. Everything is clear in my mind!

  24. on 13 Jul 2010 at 5:42 am 24.Severin said …

    I also have no need to kiss anyone’s ass (by accepting double moral rules) to “earn” to go to “heaven”.

    Because I know: when I finally die, I will be dead for ever!

    VERY simple! And VERY healthy!

  25. on 13 Jul 2010 at 6:05 am 25.Severin said …

    Horatio
    Let us assume for a moment a god exists and will judge me after I die:

    I know that I lived a very moral life.
    Not only that I never killed anyone, I never wished anyone’s death. I never stole, I never offended anyone. I helped people a lot (REALLY a lot, much more than usually, because I did pay for it!), disregarding their nationality and their religion, in VERY dangerous times (war!).

    NO HUMAN on this earth can say I did anything wrong to him/her, neither I did anything wrong to society in general.
    I am a good man! I feel good!

    If THAT is not enough for a god to direct me to heaven, under the threat of eternal hell I would NEVER kiss his ass by accepting HIS morality, if it is morality I read about in the Bible!

    I would feel worse in hell because braking of MY moral rules, than because of eternal fire, or whatever. I would have ETERNAL GUILTY CONSCIENCE for accepting and justifying god’s brutal (sick, lunatic) crimes, which is much worse than any torturing.

  26. on 13 Jul 2010 at 6:11 am 26.Severin said …

    Horatio
    And here we come to the point:
    A good atheist (or a good muslim, a good believer in Zeus) will NOT go to heaven!

    A brutal murderer who kiss god’s ass have all the chances to avoid hell!

    Is THAT morality you suggest us to accept?

    No, thanks!

    (How many Eskimos and Aborigins who died before they ever heard about christianity are there in heaven?)

    (Is Lucy in heaven?)

  27. on 13 Jul 2010 at 11:27 am 27.Merlin said …

    Atheist should call themselves Otheist. They do not read the Bible any more than Obama reads legislation or state laws.

    Ambiguous morality?

    They read those verses above and deduced ambiguous morality. There is no more morality more ambiguous than the Otheist. I reference China for your review.

  28. on 13 Jul 2010 at 3:53 pm 28.Severin said …

    27 Merlin
    Where was you when your fellow believers posed the glorious question to me in this blog: “WHY IS KILLING OF PEOPLE (and ripping of pregnant women) immoral?”

    That was THEIR question, NOT mine!
    (Maybe even yours, I admit I forgot who was it, but if necessary I will find who posed it).

    I have no problem with understanding what is moral and what is immoral!

    Killing is, for me (an atheist!), ALLWAYS immoral (exception: self defending or defending of other human lives). I have NO DOUBT about it!
    It is immoral for me also to accept and to justify murders done by ANYONE, be it a god, or Hitler, or a sick mass killer.
    No ambiguity in MY perception of good and evil!
    If someone did something very wrong, like ordering many deaths of innocent children and ripping of pregnant women, I am not ready to excuse him/her/it because he/she/it might be a god!

    I would not like to equal myself with such creatures, even not symbolicly, by accepting and justifying their crimes!
    I am MUCH better HUMAN than any god could ever be (especially biblical god), and I prefere to stay that way. To follow MY moral rules!
    I do not know what hate is!

    Then, when someone ask me „why is murdering immoral“, and that person lives in a country where existing laws prohibit and punish murdering, WHAT do you expect me to say but: ambiguous morality?

  29. on 13 Jul 2010 at 4:08 pm 29.Severin said …

    27 Merlin
    “I reference China for your review.”

    Again?
    Haven’t we already discussed it many times? And NONE of you ever commented my explanations, which makes them pretty acceptable.

    What China has to do woth god’s crimes?

    I reference Inquisition, Cruisade wars, and a loooong list of god’s direct crimes described in Bible for your review.

  30. on 13 Jul 2010 at 4:25 pm 30.Tara said …

    Yes, its very disturbing to read the old testament however thats why the cross had to happen. Jesus paid the price so we could live and not die. For example, if we are sexually immortal we can ask for forgiveness other than being stoned to death as we see in Deuteronomy. Draw near to Christ and He will draw near to you.

  31. on 13 Jul 2010 at 4:52 pm 31.whatever said …

    ah yes, the old adage: god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could save us from himself. Makes perfect sense to me. Oh wait, no it doesn’t.

  32. on 13 Jul 2010 at 5:37 pm 32.Merlin said …

    That’s right Tara.

    I understand Severin not bringing up China. It is Christians who must hide underground. Why would an Otheist care?

    As a Protestant Evangelical, the Catholic church persecuted my beliefs as well. So how am I tied to the Crusade Severin?

    As an Otheist, your view of morality is no more viable than Mao’s. It is just your opinion.

  33. on 13 Jul 2010 at 5:48 pm 33.Boz said …

    Where do atheist meet all the Zeus worshipers? They seem to be enamored with Zeus but I have yet to meet a follower. Just curious.

  34. on 13 Jul 2010 at 7:46 pm 34.Severin said …

    30 Tara
    “Yes, its very disturbing to read the old testament however thats why the cross had to happen. Jesus paid the price so we could live and not die.“

    What are you saying, Tara?

    God did monstrous crimes in the OT, by ordering masacres of children, ripping of preganat women, stoning for „sexual crimes“….. THEN he punished his son for the crimes his son did not do.
    Jesus paid the price FOR HIS FATHER!
    More ugly: he paid the price TO his father, for the crimes his father did!

    What is normal, what is moral, what is logical in that ugly story?
    Only VERY twisted mind is able to invent such a story.

    What “gymnastic” of mind have christian believers to perform to fight their dilemmas!?

  35. on 13 Jul 2010 at 7:49 pm 35.3D said …

    21.Horatio said …

    Oh, now I see 3. You need to read II Cor 5:17. I apologize, I sometimes assume atheist know more than they really do. You believe someone should go to heaven who has done enough good works? OK, what good works must you do and how much?

    Oh, no, there seems to be a misunderstanding. I think heaven and hell are bullshit. I don’t think doing good or bad things sends you anywhere after you die, that’s just a fairy tale for grownups.

    On the contrary, I’m just pointing out that your morality seems to be very screwed up. You believe that no matter what kind of life you lead, even if you do terrible things, even if you murder someone, you can get into heaven if you kiss enough ass in the right particular religion. But other people, who don’t accept that religion, will be tortured forever.

    That’s a pretty twisted view of the universe. If someone told you that Allah said you must worship him or burn in hell, no matter how good your life was, you would laugh in their face.

    I don’t know, you are hung up on this murder thing, which is a sin but I just don’t see a very large number of Christians partaking and using this loophole you think you have found.

    Oh definitely, it’s just one example of many. You can substitute rape or child molestation or cheating on your wife, if you want. We know there’s plenty of Christians repenting for that stuff all the time, especially priests and ministers.

  36. on 13 Jul 2010 at 7:52 pm 36.3D said …

    27.Merlin said …

    Atheist should call themselves Otheist. They do not read the Bible any more than Obama reads legislation or state laws.

    Dude. Did Obama steal your lunch money when you were 9?

    You mention Obama in every thread. Get therapy.

    Ambiguous morality?
    They read those verses above and deduced ambiguous morality.

    No no, I read those verses and see IMmorality. No ambiguity, just evil shite.

    There is no more morality more ambiguous than the Otheist. I reference China for your review.

    Crusades.

  37. on 13 Jul 2010 at 7:59 pm 37.3D said …

    a said …

    Yes, its very disturbing to read the old testament however thats why the cross had to happen. Jesus paid the price so we could live and not die.

    OK, so let’s recap:
    - God commanded a bunch of people to slaughter, stone and burn each other by the millions.
    - They listened to him and commited heinous atrocities in God’s name for about 3 1/2 millennia.
    - God was really pissed off that all these people did all the terrible things he asked them to do under threat of horrible torture and death.
    - God had to turn himself into his own son, so he could sacrifice himself (to himself) so that he could pay for all the sins he told all those people to commit.

    Well that wraps that up! Thanks for explaining everything.

    For example, if we are sexually immortal we can ask for forgiveness other than being stoned to death as we see in Deuteronomy.

    Yeah, except for the little part that God/Christ was the one who told all those people to start stoning each other in the first place.

    Couldn’t he just skip that little detail of 3,500 years of barbaric torture and genocide, rather than command people to be really evil and sadistic and then have himself hung on a cross and tortured to stop them from being really evil and sadistic?

    I guess God works in really mysterious, poorly-written, horribly violent ways.

  38. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:20 pm 38.Severin said …

    Merlin,
    “There are five recognized religions by the state (in China), namely Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism.”….
    “However, some surveys suggest that the cultural adherents or even outright religious adherents of Buddhism could number as high as 50% to 80% of the population, or about 660 million to over 1 billion”

    “The minority religions are Christianity (between 40 million, 3%,[29] and 54 million, 4%[30]), Islam (20-30 million, 1.5%-2%), Judaism, Hinduism, Dongbaism, Bon and a number of new religions and sects (particularly Xiantianism and Falun Gong).”

    So, if Chinese government suppresses religious rights of their people (which I do care, but I can not do anything to stop them), Chinese christians are certainly NOT the first ones on their list!

    They are obviously the first ones on YOUR list!
    Why would a Protestant Evangelical care oabout religious rights of non-christians?!

    I do not believe in god, but I DO care for human rights, including their religious rights. Generally, not specifically for rights of one or two religions.

    Strange from an atheist?
    That is the way normal people reason: I do not agree with you, but I am ready to die for your right to say it!
    Of course, I am ready to fight your opinion in debates!
    Argumented ones!

    Not like you: personal level is your maximum. No arguments from any side!

    So, merlin, HOW did Noah bring kangaroos on his arc?

  39. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:32 pm 39.3D said …

    20.MrQ said …

    Watch out 3D, you’re being set-up. Likely by an atheist parading around and pretending to be a very stupid Xtian.

    I know it’s a possibility he’s trolling, but the end result is the same. He’s advancing talking points that a lot of people secretly believe in, or have been force fed, whether he sincerely believes them or not.

    So it’s good to put the real answers out there, in case there’s people lurking here and sitting on the fence with doubts about the cult they’re trapped in.

  40. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:38 pm 40.Horatio said …

    @3D
    “On the contrary, I’m just pointing out that your morality seems to be very screwed up.”

    Really how? I would bet we probably agree on just about everything regarding morality other than the Reds killing Christians. You use personal opinion, I have the lawgiver.

    You have this idea that forgiveness by God means man does not still punish the sin as a consequence. Nobody makes that claim except you and Severin. Therefore since you believe in no God we agree they all get the same punishment. So stop with the silly screwed up morality argument. A step further. God’s forgiveness frees us from eternal damnation and it is available to all who humbly repent. Jesus willing did this so why are you so upset? I am grateful He was willing to free me from eternal punishment.
    ______________________________

    “Where do atheist meet all the Zeus worshipers?”

    lol, great question!

  41. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:39 pm 41.3D said …

    33.Boz said …

    Where do atheist meet all the Zeus worshipers? They seem to be enamored with Zeus but I have yet to meet a follower. Just curious.

    It’s just a very illustrative example of a god that lots and lots of people worshipped, at one time, that eventually fell by the wayside. Everyone knows what Zeus is, so it makes the point clear in an argument, but he’s just one of many examples that you can use. Jesus is just the current one in fashion.

    And he’s been in fashion only for about 1,700 years which is really like the blink of an eye compared to some of the other fairy tales that have been around in human history. The fact that you were brought up in an era when Jesus was in fashion doesn’t make him more real than Zeus, or Osiris, or Ra, or Quetzlcoatl, or, etc., etc.

    So when atheists bring up Zeus, they’re just doing it to try to point out to you that Zeus was around for just as long as Jesus was, worshipped by millions of people, and then fell by the wayside as just another myth of antiquity. The same will happen to Jesus eventually, but if we do enough “good works” perhaps it could happen in our lifetime. It’s a longshot but we can dream.

  42. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:43 pm 42.Severin said …

    33 Boz
    “Where do atheist meet all the Zeus worshipers?”

    In history, Boz, in history.
    Keep learning: some ancient Greeks existed once upon a time, and Zeus was their major god, etc.

    Instead of splitting hairs with such deatils, are you able to answer the very simple question:

    Where went after their death all the (good) people who never heard about christian god and Jesus, because they lived on other continents: Eskimos, Aztecs, …(and your god never knew anything about them!!!)
    Among hundreds of millions of them who lived for milleniums without christianity, it is IMPOSSIBLE that all of them were bad people.

    ANY ancient Eskimo, Greek, Aztec, Chineese… in heaven, please?

  43. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:43 pm 43.Horatio said …

    @3D

    “So it’s good to put the real answers out there, in case there’s people lurking here and sitting on the fence with doubts about the cult they’re trapped in.”

    Now this is funny! Anyone who can have THIS blog (or any blog) change there mind has never met the real Jesus. Seriously, when your eyes have been opened the 24 pt outline of fallacies, theological errors and contradictions only strengthens the believer. For that, I give thanks.

    I have suspected 3D is the Zeus worshiper we keep hearing about………….

  44. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:50 pm 44.Severin said …

    Yes, and where are going after their death ALL little children, of ANY religion, who had no capacity to recognize any religion or to recognize between good and evil, and had no luck to grow adults?

    Does your god (he is the ONLY ONE, right? NO other gods to share competences with?) stop children of muslims on the heaven gates?
    Where are those children going then?

  45. on 13 Jul 2010 at 8:57 pm 45.Severin said …

    43 Horatio
    “I have suspected 3D is the Zeus worshiper we keep hearing about………….”

    What is the difference between an (ex-) worshiper of Zeus and a worshiper of christian god?

    Enlighten us, please!

  46. on 13 Jul 2010 at 10:38 pm 46.Horatio said …

    “Does your god (he is the ONLY ONE, right? NO other gods to share competences with?) stop children of muslims on the heaven gates?”

    No, God saves individuals not groups or nations. I cannot judge someone who I do not know. Got an example? You can call yourself, well an atheist, but if you follow God’s plan you will be heaven.

    “What is the difference between an (ex-) worshiper of Zeus and a worshiper of christian god?”

    Again, I have never known a worshiper of Zeus so again got someone in mind? Again, another argumenative fallacy. Are you really sure that is where you would like to be? Using fallacies.

  47. on 13 Jul 2010 at 10:53 pm 47.TruthSeeker said …

    @ 3D p37

    and to mention as well, a god who is “the same, yesterday, today and forever,” who is “all knowing.”
    Yet he didn’t know one day he was going to throw his hands up and say, “I know I was a tyrant for 3500 years and I promised to be the same… [yt&f] … but screw it! Forget the old testament, I’ll be a “loving” father now!”

    in Jeremiah 31:31-34 when he proposes a “new’ covenant does he even mention Jesus then? Nope. He decides that he’s going to tell every one about him so that there will be no need for churches and priests because everyone will immediately know upon birth everything there is to know about god, and he promises to forgive everyone’s sins! Even Hitler and Manson are going to Heaven!

    So, to all the ‘believers’ out there: Did you know everything you need to know about God upon birth, or did someone ever tell you about God? You had to find out from someone else? That means you’re still living under the rules of the First Covenant, and under such a covenant, you must obey the full Old Testament and be a Jew to go to heaven. Remember Jesus decided AGAINST the father to include Gentiles. Even Jesus declared his perfect and loving father was wrong! After all it’s under God’s orders they cared about there being a distinction between Jews and Gentiles!

    even with that I added, we still didn’t cover everything…

  48. on 13 Jul 2010 at 11:38 pm 48.A real-ist said …

    “Again, I have never known a worshiper of Zeus so again got someone in mind?”

    Since we are on the subject of Zeus, if you look at his story he has a mortal son and a brother who was sent from Zeus’s heaven to rule the underworld just like Satan was an angel. Same story with just a few changes. Hmmmm….and which came first, greek gods or Jesus? You ever play a game as a kid where you whisper something in someone’s ear and then you have to whisper to the next person and so on until it goes around the room and then the last person has to say outloud what the first person said and it always comes out similar but a little different? It’s the same thing with religions. Stories similar to Jesus have been around long before Jesus supposedly lived. The bible is just a story book just like modern comic books. Does this mean 1000 years from now Superman is going to be the new Jesus?

  49. on 14 Jul 2010 at 3:52 am 49.3D said …

    43.Horatio said …
    @3D
    “So it’s good to put the real answers out there, in case there’s people lurking here and sitting on the fence with doubts about the cult they’re trapped in.”
    Now this is funny! Anyone who can have THIS blog (or any blog) change there mind has never met the real Jesus. Seriously, when your eyes have been opened the 24 pt outline of fallacies, theological errors and contradictions only strengthens the believer. For that, I give thanks.

    I have suspected 3D is the Zeus worshiper we keep hearing about………….

    Horatio,

    Aw, man, I’m disappointed! You offered those verses to spur a discussion here, I gave my interpretation of them as twisted evil bullshit, and you didn’t even comment on my comment! No back and forth debate about it. Just some dumb crap about Zeus.

    Anyway, since you didn’t answer, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed it, and I’ll ask ya again with some different wording.

    - We already know from the verses you served up that you believe there is a heaven. How about hell? Is there a hell?

    - We already know from your earlier comments that you think murderers don’t go to hell if they accept Jesus. So, if indeed you do believe in a hell, then who does go there? If not murderers?

    - If murderers go unpunished because they believe in the right god, while jaywalkers and chronic masturbators burn in flames because of being the wrong denomination of theist, is this a moral system?

    Thanks in advance!

  50. on 14 Jul 2010 at 5:40 am 50.Severin said …

    46 Horatio
    “… but if you follow God’s plan you will be heaven.”

    You admit, I hope, that I can not follow anything I do not know.
    I am a well organized and disciplined individual, accustomed to make and to follow plans.

    Where to find god’s plan?

  51. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:04 am 51.Severin said …

    46 Horatio
    You are obsessed with “fallacies”, but you actually do not know much about formal logic.
    I do not pretend I do, but in urgent cases I have a professional to bother with my questions (although old, I am still very curious).
    Yes, I also had some lectures in formal logic (for 2 years) in high school, but it was some 40 years ago.

    I was told (from a professional!) that no question can be a fallacy! Only conclusions can be fallacious, depending on premisses AND the process (way) they were driven.
    So you can ask whatever “stupid” question, it can not be a fallacy by its NATURE: a question.
    So, questions like:
    Has the Colorado State ever born a child?
    Why are microorganisms so undemocratic?
    What color is a pullover your dog knitted?
    Why is my car so stubborn?
    Did you sting on your rubber ball?
    Did god create universe?

    may be stupid, but NOT fallacies according to formal logic!

    On the other side, like you never knew a worshiper of Zeus, I doubt you ever met your god in personal contact of any sort.
    How do you KNOW he exists?

    And, PLEASE, inform me where to find god’s plans!

  52. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:17 am 52.Severin said …

    3D
    “- If murderers go unpunished because they believe in the right god, while jaywalkers and chronic masturbators burn in flames because of being the wrong denomination of theist, is this a moral system?”

    Please refere to #46!

    Althouh being an atheist, you might be saved!

    Can’t wait to see where and how to find god’s plan!

  53. on 14 Jul 2010 at 11:38 am 53.Horatio said …

    Boys,

    The plan is laid out in plain sight for all those who will accept Him in those verses 3D typed in for us. Thank you 3D. Read them carefully and in context and humble you heart before God. Add II Cor 5:17 Ep 2 to the mix.

    Stop with fallacies of if X is red and Y is red than X and Y must both be apples. Your arguments are fallacious.

    I know your purpose, obviously, is only to belittle and disparage Jesus and his plan of salvation and ironically Jesus even states that will happen. It is a shame. Sadly many will find hell because they will need to pay for their sin even though Christ is not willing that any would perish.

    ” gave my interpretation of them as twisted evil bullshit, and you didn’t even comment on my comment!”

    Hor’s Comment: Well, if you had commented on the verses I might have had something for you. Maybe if you could focus on each verse……

    “The Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing”

  54. on 14 Jul 2010 at 2:04 pm 54.3D said …

    52.Severin said …

    3D

    Please refere to #46!
    Althouh being an atheist, you might be saved!
    Can’t wait to see where and how to find god’s plan!

    Sounds like a good plan! No wonder so many Christians do terrible things, like cheat on their wives and blow up abortion clinics and beat homosexuals to death. It is because they have a Get Out of Hell Free card!

    You reminded me of a story about a little boy who prayed and prayed to Jesus for a bicycle. For years he prayed and never got a bicycle. One day he went to church and the priest told him Jesus would forgive his sins. So he stole a bicycle and repented. Happy ending!

  55. on 14 Jul 2010 at 2:26 pm 55.3D said …

    53.Horatio said …

    Boys,
    The plan is laid out in plain sight for all those who will accept Him in those verses 3D typed in for us. Thank you 3D.

    I didn’t type them, I cut and pasted, from the wonderful website http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com. But you’re welcome!

    Read them carefully and in context and humble you heart before God.

    Hoo boy. A few posts back Severin asked you to tell us your PERSONAL thoughts on what happens after you die and heaven and hell, what gets someone into favorable position for the afterlife.

    You answered with a bunch of Bible verses, by chapter and verse number. No asterisks, no footnotes, no personal clarifications, not even the quotes in full, just chapter names and numbers and this was your definitive answer. It is obvious that you believed those verses were straightforward and clear, and answered the question you were asked without any equivocation.

    Now, when someone actually takes the time to give your answer some consideration, and posts the verses here in full, and comments on them (pointing out that they are basically immoral shite), you’re complaining about context!

    YOU presented those verses up to be examined here, and you’re complaining about context? OK, how about giving us the extra verses that put those ones into context? I’ll gladly examine those too.

    Stop with fallacies of if X is red and Y is red than X and Y must both be apples. Your arguments are fallacious.

    If they’re so fallacious, it should be pretty easy to say why, but you just keep handwaving them without presenting an argument.

    When you tell us that murderers can go to heaven if they accept Jesus, but a Jewish person or a Buddhist who spent his life saving children from starving to death is going to burn in hell, I say that’s fucked up. It’s a pretty simple reaction — that’s a fucked up system. If our courts ran that way, the country would be overflowing with murders and rapes by the millions. That’s the system that allows little children to be raped by priests over and over and still give sermons every week. What’s fallacious about that statement?

    Tell me exactly why that’s a good system. Or if that’s not the system you believe in, tell me how it really works. And if you use Bible verses for answers, please add your own interpretation this time, so we don’t take you out of context!

    I know your purpose, obviously, is only to belittle and disparage Jesus and his plan of salvation and ironically Jesus even states that will happen.

    Well, in all fairness, Jesus was saying a bunch of crazy wacked out shit, so it’s not exactly a stretch to predict that some people eventually would start pointing out that he was saying some crazy wacked out shit.

    Jesus also said his second coming would occur before his generation passed from the earth, and quite a few other things that fell a little short of the accuracy threshhold. He wasn’t exactly Nostradamus (but then again neither was Nostradamus).

    Anyway you are wrong, my “plan” is not to belittle Jesus because Jesus doesn’t exist and didn’t exist. I do belittle the Bible because the Bible doesn’t make any sense, it’s violent, it has a horrible message (nothing you do in life matters to whether you get into heaven, it’s only about whether you worshipped Jesus or not) and it’s a hindrance to the human race moving forward and the sooner people stop believing in it the better.

  56. on 14 Jul 2010 at 2:44 pm 56.Horatio said …

    “So he stole a bicycle and repented. Happy ending!”

    So he gave the bike back? You see 3D, it is impossible to discuss the faith with you since you refuse to even look up the definition of words. You do not desire to understand. Paul clearly states Jesus is not a get out of jail free card. Jesus will not save those with that attitude.

    Repent is changing direction from sin and self and turning to Christ and serving Him and others. Not attempting to use Him as a ticket from hell. Those who belong to Christ desire to not sin because Jesus changes our hearts.

    Well, I hope one day you will give it serious consideration and find eternal purpose for your life

    Jesus did not exist huh? The new way to deny God. Sure 3D, ignore all the evidence of His existence. 3D, the conspiracy theorist!

    Its not going away, you should find out why.

  57. on 14 Jul 2010 at 4:09 pm 57.3D said …

    Repent is changing direction from sin and self and turning to Christ and serving Him and others. Not attempting to use Him as a ticket from hell. Those who belong to Christ desire to not sin because Jesus changes our hearts.

    So who goes to Hell? Why doesn’t just change everyone’s hearts if he can do it anyway, and prevent all those needless murders?

    Jesus did not exist huh? The new way to deny God. Sure 3D, ignore all the evidence of His existence. 3D, the conspiracy theorist!

    Actually, it’s you who’s a conspiracy theorist! Some weirdos in the first century came up with a story about a magic man, and you believe it at face value, even though no one else living at that time ever wrote about him or saw him or mentioned him. Next thing you will be saying the moon landing was faked and Obama isn’t an American!

    Its not going away, you should find out why.

    Well, it is going away little by little, but I admit it’s very persistent, like a flu or a fly buzzing around in your room on a summer day. The reason is marketing! Ponzi schemes and Nigerian e-mail scams aren’t going away either — that doesn’t mean they’re legitimate or good for us.

  58. on 14 Jul 2010 at 4:17 pm 58.3D said …

    56.Horatio said …

    “So he stole a bicycle and repented. Happy ending!”
    So he gave the bike back? You see 3D, it is impossible to discuss the faith with you since you refuse to even look up the definition of words. You do not desire to understand.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repent
    re·pent1 ? ?[ri-pent]
    –verb (used without object)
    1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often fol. by of ): He repented after his thoughtless act.
    2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one’s life for the better; be penitent.
    –verb (used with object)
    3. to remember or regard with self-reproach or contrition: to repent one’s injustice to another.
    4. to feel sorry for; regret: to repent an imprudent act.

    I don’t see anything there about giving a bike back! Just a bunch of different ways of saying the same thing — feeling really sorry. (Maybe I’m not getting all the “context” of the dictionary!)

    By the way, if you really think that “repenting” means undoing your evil deeds, like giving back a bike you stole, what do murderers do to repent? Give the person’s life back?

  59. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:13 pm 59.Merlin said …

    3D-”So who goes to Hell?”

    Anyone who doesn’t accept Christ. Wouldn’t that be clear?

    3D- “Actually, it’s you who’s a conspiracy theorist! Some weirdos in the first century came up with a story about a magic man, and you believe it at face value”

    We understand. You can’t believe in anyone you have never met. Just ignore the over 25,000 original manuscripts (next closest the Illiad at 600), the incredible growth from 12 to multiples of millions. We have more proof for Jesus than for anyone else during his time just through the writings. Yeah, they were all in on it.

    I never argue with anyone about ET, Fortune Tellers or Flat Earthers. It is because I don’t believe any of it and I have no doubts. 3D, you have doubts and that is a good thing.

    3D- “what do murderers do to repent? Give the person’s life back?”

    They go to jail for life or get the death penalty, usually unless your are OJ. What else would YOU have them do? You pay for an earthly existence with your own sounds quite fair.

  60. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:16 pm 60.Merlin said …

    3D

    Please tell me you are more enlightened than this. You can actually read that definition for repent and believe an individual who truly repents would not attempt to undo the evil deed, in this case give back a bike?

    Who shot Kennedy 3D?

  61. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:49 pm 61.MrQ said …

    ”So who goes to Hell?”

    We all do. Simple, isn’t it?

    Through the eyes of various denominations of christianity, each has condemned the other, as well as everyone else, to hell. They just can’t agree on the “inerrant” (LOL) word of their skydaddy.
    The catholics say it’s their way, baptists beg to differ, lutherans are just a breakaway cult of catholics, anglicans just want guilt free divorces, etc,etc. That’s why there are so many flavours of christianity, everyone thinks they have the answer. None do.

  62. on 14 Jul 2010 at 6:50 pm 62.Severin said …

    53 Horatio
    I expected you to be fair and to give me some real answers, but you are cheating me!
    I read all the verses you recommended, and more.
    Nothing looks like a plan there. No trace of anything like a plan!

    If you consider complete Bible, or some parts of it as some sort of “plan” about how people should live and behave, I have some comments:
    I read the whole Bible several times in my life, and did not find EVER anything that fits my sense of right/good/moral. When I first read it, being practilly a child (maybe 12), I cried and vomited. Especially when I found a story about Abraham and Isaac! I REALLY cried, and was so extremely axcited that I REALLY vomited and asked my mother what a god is able to challenge a father to kill his son, and what a afther is ready to accept such a challenge. I felt like poor Isaac at that moment. I hated god, of course! That was the time I still thought he might exist.
    Then again, I cried when I found the story of Jesus! I was not stupid and I understood god did all the terrible crimes described in the OT, and asked my mother again: WHY is god punishing poor Jesus instead to kill himself.
    Readin futher, I changed my opinion about Jesus’ goodness, but was still sorry for him.

    Some miserable exceptions like “do not kill”, “respect your parents”, “love your neighbors”, “do not steal”, I knew and understood and accepted in the age of 7 or 8 without reading Bible and without knowing Jesus. I did not need Bible to tell me THAT, and Bible has nothing else to tell me, but hate and bruatlity.

    Today’s human laws are mauch more clear and consistent, and are much better to follow as some “plan” for how to live and how to behave, than biblical “rules”. They (human laws) generally fit my own sense of what is right/good/moral and what is not.
    (NOT Sharia laws, of course! They are too similar to biblical “laws”!)
    In case of doubt I will not read the Bible again, neither will I ask a priest, but will ask a lawyer, or my friends, what to do.

    In short: god has NO plans for anyone, and if Bible is considered a sort of his “plan”, I can only wish no one will ever follow it.

  63. on 14 Jul 2010 at 7:07 pm 63.Severin said …

    53 Horatio
    “The plan is laid out in plain sight for all those who will accept Him…”

    Hey, man, unlike you, I am READY to accept ANY god, instantly, under 2 conditions:

    He MUST contact me directly and prove himself a god.
    He MUST prove he was not the one who ordered Abraham to kill his son.

    WHY would I trust you or christian priests? Or ANY priest, or ANY human?
    Tell me your reason to trust you or them?

    WHY don’t you trust muslim priests, and accept Allah?
    Their arguments are EXACTLY THE SAME AS YOURS: god of love, blah, blah…!

    And, if a god contact me and tell me: I am your god, and I am the one who ordered Abraham to kill his son, then I will NOT accept him under an.

  64. on 14 Jul 2010 at 7:12 pm 64.Severin said …

    59 Merlin
    “So who goes to Hell?”

    Anyone who doesn’t accept Christ. Wouldn’t that be clear?

    No, it is NOT clear!
    A muslim told me that anyone who doesn’t accept Allah will go to hell.

    Give me a reason to trust you and not to trust him!

  65. on 14 Jul 2010 at 7:42 pm 65.3D said …

    59.Merlin said …

    3D-”So who goes to Hell?”
    Anyone who doesn’t accept Christ. Wouldn’t that be clear?

    Yes! It’s clear to me from the verses Horatio offered. I was just asking again, for clarification of what he believes, because he seems to be hedging his statement and not flat out admit it, like you just did.

    And it’s obvious why he doesn’t want to discuss it, I mean the above is really an evil belief system. Everyone who lived on the planet earth who doesn’t believe in Jesus will wind up being tortured in hell, even if they dedicated their lives to being good people; but murderers and child-raping priests go to heaven if the “give back the bike”.

    We understand. You can’t believe in anyone you have never met.

    Not true! I believe in people I haven’t met, if there is sufficient evidence to prove they existed. I believe Abraham Lincoln, Julius Caesar and Anna Nicole Smith existed, but not Jesus.

    Just ignore the over 25,000 original manuscripts (next closest the Illiad at 600),

    Wow! With so many manuscripts, it should be very easy for you to name one, single, non-biblical account of Jesus written while he was alive, right? Go ahead!

    I never argue with anyone about ET, Fortune Tellers or Flat Earthers. It is because I don’t believe any of it and I have no doubts.

    I would never argue with anyone about UFOs, Fortune Tellers or Flat Earthers either, because those wacky conspiracy theories don’t have a well-funded and dangerous cult backing them up! So they are mostly harmless.

    Christianity, on the other hand…

    3D- “what do murderers do to repent? Give the person’s life back?”
    They go to jail for life or get the death penalty, usually unless your are OJ. What else would YOU have them do? You pay for an earthly existence with your own sounds quite fair.

    Let’s see how this works out on the “Fairness Scale”. First of all, everyone dies, so everyone from saints to child-molesting priests gets the same “punishment” no matter what they did in life. So that’s not much of a “punishment”. Strike 1 on the Fairness Scale.

    Second: if humans didn’t intervene, the murderer wouldn’t go to jail or get the death penalty at all. God doesn’t strike murderers down with a lightning bolt; he would let them roam free to skip rope or purchase real estate. Humans have to step in where God fails miserably to mete out justice. So that’s strike 2.

    Third, and worst of all, if they decided to accept Jesus toward the end, they waltz merrily into heaven. Meanwhile, a kid in a Muslim country who lives 9 years and starves to death goes to burn in hell. Strike THREEEEEEEEEEE! You’re out!

  66. on 14 Jul 2010 at 7:48 pm 66.3D said …

    60.Merlin said …

    3D
    Please tell me you are more enlightened than this. You can actually read that definition for repent and believe an individual who truly repents would not attempt to undo the evil deed, in this case give back a bike?

    Yes indeed I do!

    So now I am waiting for you to please tell me how someone can “undo” a murder, which would allow them to get into heaven, as Horatio says? Seems a little harder than bringing a bike back, no?

    Maybe Ctrl-Z?

  67. on 14 Jul 2010 at 8:22 pm 67.Marcus said …

    @ Horatio, Boz et al

    Your mind-numbing semantics is what makes you and so many forums SO feckin’ tedious.

    So, let’s liven things up with a challenge, shall we?

    If I can prove, unequivocally, tonight, that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist, would you be willing to change your minds and accept that all religion really is all a load of bollocks made up by primitive people to explain what was then unexplainable and, more importantly, to give men control over other men (and, of course, over those sub-human creatures they all seemed to hate so much called women)?

  68. on 14 Jul 2010 at 9:28 pm 68.Merlin said …

    severin

    “A muslim told me that anyone who doesn’t accept Allah will go to hell.”

    LOL you are always good for a laugh. You are a liar or the Muslim was just yanking your chain! They also do not have priest and neither do I. You can read the Bible for yourself.

    Were you a disturbed little boy? Your accounts above just are not normal.

    Mark,

    Really? What you gonna point me to the creeds of the blog? The 24 pt outline? Don’t waste your time, for your sake. When your really push the atheist to the corner they admit they don’t know. So please, just stop.

    I read above 3D claims God is a 50/50 proposition. I see God as a 100% proposition. Why can’t your atheist agree on anything! That equates to 150% for God 50% no God.

    3D,

    Horatio did admit in the verses! Only someone who could not read wouldn’t figure out what the verses stated.

    Hor why do you bother!

  69. on 14 Jul 2010 at 9:47 pm 69.Marcus said …

    Merlin – Are you pissed or high or something? Come back when you’ve sobered up and have something intelligent and/or intelligible to say, sunshine. Then perhaps we can discuss my challenge a bit more constructively.

    (By the way, if you can actually focus enough to read properly the the name’s Marcus, not Mark.)

  70. on 14 Jul 2010 at 9:54 pm 70.Horatio said …

    Marcus

    Love to hear it. Challenge away.

    Merlin,

    I bother because I have been where they are in life. I pick at them and have a little fun here and there but I know where they stand. It still fascinates me to see how clearly Scripture can state things but the unregenerate mind just cannot comprehend Biblical truths. Just another truth Scripture points out. Hey somewhere down the road they may encounter Christ

  71. on 14 Jul 2010 at 11:05 pm 71.MrQ said …

    Hor
    “Hey somewhere down the road they may encounter Christ”

    Don’t think so.
    However, I can predict that this “christmas” I will meet Santa and I will likely meet Jesus next time I travel to Mexico. ;-)

    Keep the faith, buddy. It really suits you and your sister.

  72. on 15 Jul 2010 at 12:32 am 72.MrQ said …

    Hor,
    “It still fascinates me to see how clearly Scripture can state things but the unregenerate mind just cannot comprehend Biblical truths”

    Isn’t that the TRUTH…. the REAL TRUTH, that is. You are following the right path… but those other christian and religious dudes, they are, in varying degrees, out to lunch. Aren’t they?

  73. on 15 Jul 2010 at 3:27 am 73.A real-ist said …

    “I bother because I have been where they are in life. I pick at them and have a little fun here and there but I know where they stand.”

    Yeah, well, I was where you are at. Religion is like getting a filling. It can be drilled into you and it can be drilled out of you.

    ———

    “It still fascinates me to see how clearly Scripture can state things but the unregenerate mind just cannot comprehend Biblical truths.”

    Did you not read the few times I pointed out the beginning of the bible where it states God created light on one of the first days and then the sun the day after that? Is that a biblical truth? Seems like you cannot comprehend the mistake there. And Noah’s Ark and talking snakes are truths? How hard is it to understand that biblical stories are just stories like today’s comic books?

    ————

    “I read above 3D claims God is a 50/50 proposition. I see God as a 100% proposition. Why can’t your atheist agree on anything! That equates to 150% for God 50% no God.”

    I see God as a 0% proposition, so is it 150% to 150% now? How can someone be 100% when there is no actual evidence of God existing. Have you seen God? Is there a picture(not a drawing) of God? Did someone record God on a video camera? If he supposedly exists at this moment, why haven’t any of these things happened? Oh, wait, us Atheists are stupid to think he doesn’t exist. I’ll tell you what, if he actually truly shows himself where there is no question, I will believe. Until then, imaginary friends do not exist. It is that simple. The bible is the biggest practical joke of all time.

  74. on 15 Jul 2010 at 6:06 am 74.Severin said …

    68 Merlin
    “LOL you are always good for a laugh.
    You are a liar or the Muslim was just yanking your chain!”

    Are you nuts? Have you ever tried to talk to a muslim on “friedly basis” about “delicate issues”? In such cases you have to be very carefull, but the final result is: ONLY muslims (who accept Allah and all other BS of their religion) go to “heaven”.
    ALL others go to hell! NO EXCEPTION: non-muslims go to hell! I WAS personally told so!

    Are yo nuts, again?
    How is it that muslims have no “priests”. I admit I was lazy to look for the right word in dictionary, but muslims HAVE well organized, very strong church organization, with people who studied on religion schools, who are paid to spread religion, are “spirit leaders”, “preachers”…just like christian churches have.
    NO DIFFERENCE!

    So muslims DO claim people who do not accept Allah go to hell.
    You can NOT just neglect the fact or call it a lie!

    So, instead to call me a lier, and zig-zag to AVOID to answer, please, be so kind and enlighten me:

    If I wished to try religion not to “deserve” hell, and was in dilemma between Islam and Chrisitanity, YOU tell me:
    WHY SHOULD I TRUST YOU/CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND NOT TO TRUST THEM/MUSLIMS?

    WHY SHOULD I ACCEPT JESUS AND NOT ACCEPT ALLAH?

    You, of course, DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWER, because THERE IS NO ANSWER!
    I could not get answer from a muslim either!

    So you and a muslim are EQUAL IN MY EYES:
    BOTH CLAIMING THE SAME WITHOUT ANY ARGUMENTS!

  75. on 15 Jul 2010 at 6:44 am 75.Severin said …

    68 Merlin
    “Were you a disturbed little boy? Your accounts above just are not normal“

    A little boy (11 or 12), with ENORMEOUS imagination, and VERY sensitive, and VERY compassionate, encourraged from a christian priest, reads the Bible. Priest gave him (sorry: priest SOLD it to boy’s grandfather!) a Bible version for children, written in boy’s native language. Illustrated!

    The boy READS about how god himself ordered the big flood in which (the boy noticed it!) many BOYS, like HIMSELF obviously died for nothing.
    Boy sees PICTURE of mass of people drowning, he recognizes babies in mother’s hands, AND children of HIS AGE, suffering in expecting death.

    Then the boy READS (in a book he was told it represents the TRUTH) how god challenged Abraham to slaughter his son, how Abraham accepted the challenge and TIED his son and TOOK a knife to slaughter him. A wonderfull illustration shines from the page: a long-bearded man with rised knife, ready to kill the TIED boy (HIS SON!) on a stone altar.

    Then a boy sees himself in the place of Isaac, and starts to cry and to vomit! To HATE god (and Abraham)!

    This is the story from my life.

    If you call my reaction „disturbed“ and „not normal“ what monster are YOU?

  76. on 15 Jul 2010 at 11:29 am 76.Horatio said …

    Sev

    I suggest you understand Islam. No Muslim knows if they are going to heaven. It is a worked based relgion and they do not know if they will make it until they die. With Jesus, good deeds are just a by product of knowing Him.

    BTW, why do you hate someone who you claim does not exist? Abraham and Isaac did not. They faithfully served him all the days of their life. They lived it, the didn’t read about it. Get away from the Catholicism. Its all about them and their requirements.

    Q, Real, Sev

    You are discussing religion and I agree with your pov. I don’t have a religion, I know Jesus the Redeemer of the world. He knows no religions. I know Him to be real because he completely turned my life around. That is why it is God and not Allah. Muslims don’t know Allah, they just hope to be chosen.

  77. on 15 Jul 2010 at 2:21 pm 77.Merlin said …

    “If I can prove, unequivocally, tonight, that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist,”

    Mark missed his deadline. Another proof positive against God has bit the dust.

    @ Sev: “If you call my reaction „disturbed“ and „not normal“ what monster are YOU?”

    What kind of monster are you? You seem to have an attitude that disturbed children are the scum of society. I have great compassion for disturbed children. Your reaction is not normal. Sorry but that is the reality. I remember seeing the same picture in a childrens Bible along with thousands of others and not one of them reacted that way. The story was actually a positive one. I would never ever want to see a child have the sort of reaction you had. If that little story disturbed you that badly I would think it difficult to deal with the real world today.

  78. on 15 Jul 2010 at 2:53 pm 78.Severin said …

    76 Horatio
    “I suggest you understand Islam. No Muslim knows if they are going to heaven.”

    I never said anything like whether they know or not about their destiny after death.
    I do not pretend to know much about their religion.
    What I positively know, and you can easyly check, is:
    non-muslims CAN NOT GO TO (their) heaven.
    If you are not a muslim, you have atomatically one way ticket to (muslim) hell:

    “Non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally.” (http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm)

    (Many other sources available, including: why don’t you just ask a muslim? I did, many times.)

  79. on 15 Jul 2010 at 2:57 pm 79.Severin said …

    76 Horatio
    “BTW, why do you hate someone who you claim does not exist?”

    I suggest you to read my comments more carefully, if they interest you.
    In age of 12 I was certainly not quite sure whether god exists or not. When I traumatically saw myself in place of a tied boy over whose head hung a knife, you bet I did believe there is god, and I hated him as strongly as possible. I think this was the ONLY hate I ever felt in my life.

  80. on 15 Jul 2010 at 3:37 pm 80.Severin said …

    77 Merlin
    „I would never ever WANT to see a child have the sort of reaction you had.“ (my bold)

    Know the story of 3 monkeys?
    How can you see something you DON’T WANT to see?
    This is what we call „Freudian slip“ (Freudian lapsus).
    THAT seems to be your problem: you DON’T WANT to see!

    Thank you, anyway!
    If you call the Abraham/Isaac story „positive“, I have no more comments or questions for you, regarding this topic.
    I have great compassion for disturbed adults!

    However, it would be too cheep a way for you to get out of „undesirable issue“.

    Is it possible that YOU ARE NOT ABLE ANSWER a simple question:

    Why should I accept Jesus, and should not accept Allah?

    Don’t „zig-zag“, please? Try it straight and clear.

    An „I don’t know“ would do!

  81. on 15 Jul 2010 at 4:30 pm 81.MrQ said …

    Hor,

    Your beliefs resembled my father’s. He was not a follower of any christian denomination. His religion was extremely personal. He simply believed in the “good book” and it’s teachings and didn’t want or need an ark (or other physical proof) to verify his faith. His opinion of those in search of proof were that those were the individuals that were lost and didn’t or couldn’t grasp the bible. He always said if the bible can change someone’s life around, then it’s all good. And that’s what it seems to have done for you. Like you, he was a christian, just not a follower of any branch of the faith.

    As for Merlin, he seems to have put a major effort into his faith. The layers are now piled deep and it’s likely too late for him to objectively view or analyze his convictions. So onward he trudges, being a naughty boy and visiting these atheist sites, spouting his dogma and daring anyone to challenge his faith. Maybe when he realizes that faith is not something that requires any proof, then he’ll settle down.

  82. on 15 Jul 2010 at 9:40 pm 82.Marcus said …

    Merlin

    “Mark missed his deadline. Another proof positive against God has bit the dust.

    Actually, you illiterate moron, the name is still Marcus, not Mark. And, unlike you, I’m guessing, I’ve been working all day. So, apologies if you have had to spend all day watching daytime TV in your trailer waiting for me to get back to you.

    So, here, as stated before, is the challenge.

    If I prove that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist, would you be willing to change your mind and accept that all religion really is all a load of bollocks?

    Well, would you? Would you admit it right here on this forum? A simple yes or no gets the ball rolling.

  83. on 16 Jul 2010 at 12:48 am 83.Horatio said …

    Marcus,

    Why are you holding back just present the evidence? Something so powerful should not need a build up. Maybe Thomas could dd it to his ist of proofs on the blog.

    I would never put out such a Challenge. Christ looks at the heart not the mouth.

  84. on 16 Jul 2010 at 3:40 am 84.A real-ist said …

    “I don’t have a religion, I know Jesus the Redeemer of the world. He knows no religions. I know Him to be real because he completely turned my life around. That is why it is God and not Allah.”

    Um, isn’t believing in Jesus and God a religion? Jesus is the foundation of Christianity. “Jesus Christ” Why do you think there are many different forms of Christianity? Because they all want to make their own rules when it comes to believing Jesus and God.

    You mention you know him to be real because he turned your life around. Have you ever taken a psychology course? It is your own conscience that turned your life around. aka an imaginary friend. The rest was randomness that just happened to fall in ways that turned out to be better for you. Everything in life is randomness. Some things turn out to be good, some bad. The problem is people tend to think when good things happen it is because of another being that did it for them. Sorry, it is just your mind playing tricks on you. Gods are just mind tricks, that is all.

  85. on 16 Jul 2010 at 5:24 am 85.Severin said …

    59 Merlin
    “3D-”So who goes to Hell?”
    Anyone who doesn’t accept Christ. Wouldn’t that be clear?“
    59 Merlin
    „Just ignore the over 25,000 original manuscripts…“

    You spit aout some (stupid) claims and hope they will stay like rocks and no one will notice they were stupid.
    Ten, when someone notices it, and poses simple counter-questions, you HAVE NO ANSWERS.
    Then you are silent for some time, waiting us to forget your stupid claims. After some time, you attack again, and this „tactic“ repeats on and on.

    That is, of course not a way of debating, at least not among intelligent and honest people.

    This time we will NOT forget your claims and grant you to get out without explanation.

    So, Merlin:
    1.
    If anyone who does not accept Jesus goes to hell, and anyone who does not accept Allah does not go to hell, why wouldn’t we accept Allah to avoid hell? WHY Jesus, WHY not Allah?
    2.
    Can you offer some examples for 25,000 original manuscripts..

    And, yes:
    12 multilied to millions (Christianity)
    1 multiplied to millions (Islam)

    Again: WHY wouldn’t we all accept islam?

    You OWE us your kind and wise answers, because YOU started this part of debate claiming something!

    Do not leave us unenlightened!

  86. on 16 Jul 2010 at 5:31 am 86.Severin said …

    Error:
    In 85 Severin should stay:
    - If anyone who does not accept Jesus goes to hell, and anyone who does not accept Allah goes to hell, why wouldn’t we accept Allah to avoid hell? WHY Jesus, WHY not Allah?

    I “think” in double negations, because they are part of my native language. I hope I will be excused for this error.

  87. on 16 Jul 2010 at 9:56 am 87.Severin said …

    76 Horatio
    “I know Him to be real because he completely turned my life around.”

    Can you explaint how do you KNOW it was Jesus who turned your life around?
    Maybe it was Allah? Or another supernatural being?

    Was Jesus in direct contact with you?

    I am, of course, happy if you turned your life from some sort of disaster to normal and decent life (not a sarcasm!), but I can not see what Jesus has to do with it!
    I guess it was YOU who WANTED to turn your life that way, and it was YOU who DID it. Everyone can only congartulate you for such a victory.

    But, if you need some “jesus” (like children frequently, and adults sometimes, need immaginary friends for support) for explanation of your brave victory, so be it!

    I tell you: It was YOU, Horatio who won!

  88. on 16 Jul 2010 at 12:57 pm 88.3D said …

    86.Severin said …

    I “think” in double negations, because they are part of my native language. I hope I will be excused for this error.

    Your errors in language are simple and it is easy to understand what you mean, because your logic is good and your content makes sense.

    The errors of some of the theists that post here are errors in logic and reasoning, and can only be untangled with about three hours of pounding your head against the wall.

  89. on 16 Jul 2010 at 1:59 pm 89.Severin said …

    3D I enjoy your humor, thank you.

  90. on 16 Jul 2010 at 10:00 pm 90.marcus said …

    Horatio – Why am I holding back? Isn’t it obvious – you STILL haven’t accepted my challenge. So, I’ll lay it down just one more time for you, mate. (After that, I’ll let others judge who backed down on this particular debate.)

    “If I can prove that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist, would you be willing to change your mind and accept that all religion really is a load of bollocks? Would you admit it right here on this forum?”

    It’s such a simple challenge, but – surprise, surprise – you seem unwilling to take it up.

    And why would that be? Well, my guess is that you really aren’t 100% sure that your sky fairy exists. That you are worried that your disneyland for the soul is just a whole load of wishful thinking.

    But anyway, back to the challenge. Do you accept it, or not? I await your reply. And this time, just for once, give a simple yes or no answer. (I’ll take anything other than a yes or no answer as an acceptance that you are too afraid to take up my challenge and that you concede that your beliefs are erroneous.)

  91. on 16 Jul 2010 at 11:54 pm 91.Merlin said …

    “If I can prove that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist, would you be willing to change your mind and accept that all religion really is a load of bollocks? Would you admit it right here on this forum?”

    Sure, I accept. If you meet my criteria for proof you got it Mark. But if you cannot, you must admit right here on this forum God does exist and send me a check for $100.

  92. on 17 Jul 2010 at 6:25 am 92.Severin said …

    91 Merlin
    “If you meet my criteria for proof you got it Mark“
    ….
    “But if you cannot, you must admit right here on this forum God does exist“

    Before you challenge anyone, or accept challenges, you are challenged, already, on your own inniciative, to answer a simple question.

    It was YOU who claimed here:
    Anyone who doesn’t accept Christ goes to hell.
    You added, arrogantly:
    “Wouldn’t that be clear?“

    You owe us your kind and wise explanation:
    We all want to avoid hell, but mischievous muslims claim: if you are a muslim, you HAVE CHANCES to avoid hell. If you are not a muslim you AUTOMATICALLY have a one-way ticket to hell!

    So, WHY would’t we accept Allah/Islam to get a chance to avoid hell?
    WHY christianity? Why not islam?

    Try with answer which will meet my criteria.

    Or, why don’t you admit right here on this forum, you are an ignorant who only babbles here without having any explanations for your own claims (babbles)?

  93. on 17 Jul 2010 at 6:55 am 93.Severin said …

    90 Marcus
    “And this time, just for once, give a simple yes or no answer.”

    Did you see the answer?
    “IF ……”!
    How do you expect straight answers from a believer in “disneyland for the soul”?

    (“…disneyland for the soul”… perfect!)

  94. on 17 Jul 2010 at 3:45 pm 94.truthteller7 said …

    READ HERE MUCH NEEDED INFORMATION THAT MAKES EVERYONE POSTING HERE ASK THEMSELVES TO RETHINK THIER LIFE DECISIONS:first off as a jehovahs christian witness you have to realize that the ruler of the earth is satan in the bible it says that he is the one minipulating the whole inhabitted earth so you cant keep blaming god for the things that are bad because in the bible it says you reap what you soe therefore people who choose to do bad things end up getting the results of their actions those amputees suffer because of whatever happened as a result of inheriting sin god does not answer all prayers because in the bible jesus says that there will be many people saying didnt i cast out demons in your name and he would reply to them that he does not know you.what you have to understand is that there is only one true religion and and the only way to find out what that religion is is by following the example of christ see other forms of christianianity is called christiandom and is not acceptable by god who is jehovah and that means that god is not going to listen to the prayers of people who dont believe in him and dont follow what he has told us to do so you can claim to be a cristian but are you doing gods will once you weed out the false traditions that have been incorparated into christian religion then you find yourselves with none of the questions you ask today. here is a dose of true religion god is not a trinity, god does not cause suffering but allows it, there is no hell as punishment for sins hell is just the grave,not everyone goes to heaven only 144,000 and everyone else who was good gets to live on earth forever perfectly and i CHALLENGE anyone especailly who ever posted here to email me so i can enlighten you about politics and religion it doesnt take a older college educated person to speak wisdom those learning gods words can speak wisdom as he is the creator of wisdom my email is jacet.williams@yahoo.com im only 19 but i have so much knowledge and will only tell you what i have learned to be true u can even post our conversations here you people are so misguided by the lies of babylon once you understand what the bible really teaches then yu wouldnt have such questions oh yea stop talking about the old testament we are not the old isrealites we are in the new testament stay in presant times its pathetic

  95. on 17 Jul 2010 at 3:52 pm 95.truthteller7 said …

    i accept your challenge as an oppertunity to enlighten you severin shoot or im me jacet.williams@yahoo.com for all others as well

  96. on 17 Jul 2010 at 4:05 pm 96.truthteller7 said …

    im sorry i meant the other guy merlin

  97. on 17 Jul 2010 at 7:49 pm 97.marcus said …

    Severin

    I know, I know – it’s an exercise in futility. And by the way, much as I would like to I can’t take credit for the “disneyland for the soul” quote, I actually stole it from a post I read by P Z Myers on his brilliant Paryngula blog. Here’s a link in case you haven’t seen it before:

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

    Anyway, back to the tedious business of trying to ‘debate’ with Horatio and his mates (most of whom seem to have gone suspiciously quiet recently).

    Horatio: your god apparently created EVERYTHING, right? You know, the heavens and the earth, light and darkness, plants, trees, grit, slime, stinging nettles, cancer, blindness, AIDS and pretty much anything that lives and breathes, blah, blah, blah. With me so far? Good. He can perform any manner of miracles, can’t he – the parting of seas, talking from burning bushes, arranging virgin births, etc, etc. In fact, you name it, he can, apparently, do it (except healing amputees – but I digress). He is also a pretty mean and temperamental dude, is he not. Floods, plagues, turning people to pillars of salt – the whole jealous god thing. Grrrrrrr – Mr Angry in the sky!

    Okay. So, if your god can do all this (and don’t forget that some time in the past 6000 years (yeah, right) you and your god-bothering chums reckon he created literally EVERYTHING in just 6 days) how long do you think it would take a being of that power to strike me down dead? The blink of an eye? A whole second? A minute? An hour?

    I’m willing to put my life on the line for this. I say he can’t do it. And I say he can’t do it because he doesn’t exist.

    So, you tell me when you want the time limit to start and end. You can even build in a bit of ‘kill the atheist bastard’ prayer time so you and your church can wish it on me. Then, when your time limit runs out, I’ll come back and tell you that I’m still here drawing breath and enjoying this, my one and only life.

    Deal?

    Over to you, Horatio.

  98. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:09 pm 98.truthteller7 said …

    first off i like how you avoid my challenge marcus but honestly god does everything with a purpose you arogantly mock gods power but tell me do you believe in science maybe evolution it takes faith in order to believe in a air head idea such as evolution but people would rather believe in unproven science rather than accept the huge possibility of a creator in real christian belief you can either pay for sins with death and inherit paradise on earth or you can live up to armegedon and be wiped away by god who knows god sees through the heart and humans see with thier eyes

  99. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:25 pm 99.marcus said …

    Hello truthseller7.

    I’m sorry, what was your challenge? Mine was to Horatio – but please feel free to involve yourself, and your church, and the millions of other xtians worldwide if you want. Here it is:

    “If I can prove that your god, like every other god, doesn’t exist, would you be willing to change your mind and accept that all religion really is a load of bollocks? Would you admit it right here on this forum?”

    And my cirterion was this:

    “Your god apparently created EVERYTHING, right? You know, the heavens and the earth, light and darkness, plants, trees, grit, slime, stinging nettles, cancer, blindness, AIDS and pretty much anything that lives and breathes, blah, blah, blah. With me so far? Good. He can perform any manner of miracles, can’t he – the parting of seas, talking from burning bushes, arranging virgin births, etc, etc. In fact, you name it, he can, apparently, do it (except healing amputees – but I digress). He is also a pretty mean and temperamental dude, is he not. Floods, plagues, turning people to pillars of salt – the whole jealous god thing. Grrrrrrr – Mr Angry in the sky!
    Okay. So, if your god can do all this (and don’t forget that some time in the past 6000 years (yeah, right) you and your god-bothering chums reckon he created literally EVERYTHING in just 6 days) how long do you think it would take a being of that power to strike me down dead? The blink of an eye? A whole second? A minute? An hour?
    I’m willing to put my life on the line for this. I say he can’t do it. And I say he can’t do it because he doesn’t exist.
    So, you tell me when you want the time limit to start and end. You can even build in a bit of ‘kill the atheist bastard’ prayer time so you and your church can wish it on me. Then, when your time limit runs out, I’ll come back and tell you that I’m still here drawing breath and enjoying this, my one and only life.”

    So, do your worst. Get that cloud fairy of yours all fired up and ready to strike like a laser-guided missile. I’m still here, feeling fine and waiting for his judgement on me.

  100. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:37 pm 100.truthteller7 said …

    oh yea by the way god created the earth and everything good not bad things .in the bible it says that upon creation of the earth everyone in heaven rejoiced and claped so even the devil at that time was good cause god didnt create anything bad ,but when satan saw god being worshiped he got jealous and desired to be worshiped so when god said to adam and eve be fruitfull and become many the devil saw it as his chance to make the humans worship him and thats what your doing your making the ruler of the earth the devil very happy with your antichrist beliefs (an antichrist in the bible means anyone not believing in the christ not some stupid son of the devil like on tv)so just in case you didnt know realise that gods not the one to blame for whats wrong its the devil and the choice humans made when they decided that they didnt need gods help and wisdom to rule themselves so now god sits back and says let the humans try to rule the world when they see they cant rule themselves without my help i will come to save MY PEOPLE who knew all along that they need my guidence you see we are like rebelious teenagers to god and we have to learn by example because if god prevents us from harm then we will keep trying to harm one another if you dont reply to my post it is because you are a COWARD and a speaker of lawlessness!!!!!!!!!!!!

  101. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:49 pm 101.truthteller7 said …

    SORRY FOR CALLING YOU A COWARD I WAS STILL TYPING WHILE YOU HAD ALREADY REPLIED NOW FIRST OFF REAL CHRISTIANS GO TO THE KINGDOMHALL NOT CHURCH AND I WOULD NEVER WISH YOU DEAD NOR WOULD GOD GRANT SUCH A REQUEST IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS THAT THE ONE WHO HAS NOT LEARNED TO LOVE HAS NOT COME TO KNOW GOD(JEHOVAH)I KNOW IT SOUNDS WIERD BUT I DONT WISH YOU DEATH I WISH YOU ETERNAL LIFE IN PARADISE THAT IS WHY IM HEAR TO BRING YOU TO AN “ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH ‘ I DO CARE FOR YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT ITS JUST Sad to see people allow the temptations or trials of satan to lead them away from thier father

  102. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:52 pm 102.truthteller7 said …

    oh and if i can answer all your questions and give you somethin to ponder about you must seek a bible study with a witness or admitt on a large blog that you have changed your mind on this website
    by the way watch out for the october surprise

  103. on 17 Jul 2010 at 9:53 pm 103.marcus said …

    “…god created the earth and everything good not bad things”.

    Oh, yes, stupid me. Of course he did. WHAT!?! You think you can attribute all good things to your imaginary ‘creator’ but then he can happily dodge any blame for the shit stuff? Are you completely insane? (Sorry, rhetorical question.)

  104. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:01 pm 104.truthteller7 said …

    hahahaha bad things such as disease and death came from the choice adam and eve made to disobey god they positively died and thus we onherit the ability to get sick and the ability to die had they not done that we would be living in the earth happily certain desires come from the beautiful loving gift of free will that god gave us that we choose to use to do bad things yet again all our choice

  105. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:06 pm 105.truthteller7 said …

    the devil has turned everything that was good into something so sick such as sex and even rainbows .after the flood noah sacraficed an animal to god jehovah appreciated it so much that he promised to never flood the EARTH again and as a reminder he created rainbows but have you noticed rainbow colors are now the gay colors you are allowing the devil to do these bad things then blame god because you are ignorant to the truth no offense

  106. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:09 pm 106.marcus said …

    So, let me get this straight, truthteller (ah, what a misnomer that is). You think that disease and death, no less, are the fault of two fictional characters called adam and eve? Yes?

  107. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:11 pm 107.marcus said …

    By the way -what on earth is the problem with rainbows?

  108. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:17 pm 108.truthteller7 said …

    how about this since you havent proven that they are fictional because you havent given any other cause for human exsistence why dont we look at it from a fair standpoint and the truth shall set you free from satan. speaker of lawlessness yes we inherit sickness death and imperfection from adam and eve and we have free will to reap what we soe

  109. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:19 pm 109.truthteller7 said …

    rainbows are a reminder that god will never flood the earth however the devil has made rainbow colors now the famous symbol of gay pride please no offense meant at all but pay close attention and try to keep up

  110. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:20 pm 110.marcus said …

    truthteller – thought you might like this video about rainbows. Seriously. No harm intended and I’m not trying to score any points here. It just made me laugh and I thought it might cheer your day up too.

    http://www.keepbusy.net/play.php?id=dumb-woman-doesnt-understand-rainbows

  111. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:29 pm 111.truthteller7 said …

    let me explain to you that man can never say this did not happen in the bible but instead they say maybe this was the cause and not god man merely provides an alternative and its wierd you give me a link to harrp because i have some radical however true beliefs on politics you have to see that the world is deeply routed in satan its scary when you see the signs and if i told you u would say im a nutt so i wont blow my chance with you yet and wait till you know me b4 i get into deep things with you now it doesnt take a genius just a rational thinker who understands satan and god im only 19 yet listen to my rational

  112. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:36 pm 112.marcus said …

    truthteller – anyway, back to the fray my friend.

    “…you havent proven that they are fictional because you havent given any other cause for human exsistence.”

    So, if, as your bible says, Adam and Eve were made by god and the whole human race is a result of their union, then isn’t that just a little bit incestuous? (I mean, it’s something you would get locked away for these days.) I’m no biologist, but I do happen to know that a gene pool of 2 people is a recipe for extinction!

    And where the hell did Cain’s wife come from? Did god create her too? If so, it doesn’t say so in your ‘all-knowing, all-revealing’ bible. According to god, he only created Adam and Eve. So come on, who created Cain’s missus?

  113. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:43 pm 113.marcus said …

    Oh, by the way, truthteller – given that Horatio and Merlin et al seem to have gone very quiet indeed regarding my challenge, are you prepared to accept it?

    Well, are you, punk?

  114. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:49 pm 114.truthteller7 said …

    ahahahahahahahahahahhaah i know its nasty but there was a set of rules for the people in the beginning so that the earth would be filled and life would go on but as nasty as it sounds it was one of his siblings who he was married to but you see you dont read the bible so how can you keep criticizing it anyway remember the commandments were created while moses and the isrealites were on the way to the promise land, thats where things became different and soon god abandoned the isrealites because they kept not listening to him. in the bible the only reason the isrealites were gods people was because they were relatives of his profits and some people who chose to abandon thier false gods were also allowed among the holy nation but the isrealites did alot of bad things and were often forgiven but eventualy were abandoned for the new covenant

  115. on 17 Jul 2010 at 10:50 pm 115.truthteller7 said …

    yes i am but are you ready to accept my challenge il take yours if you take mines lol

  116. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:01 pm 116.Merlin said …

    “I’m willing to put my life on the line for this. I say he can’t do it. And I say he can’t do it because he doesn’t exist.”

    That’s it Marcus! That is your proof? Ha Ha Ha, that is the silliest thing I have ever read here. “If God exists he must kill me”.

    Lets review you logic. If G does not do X (by mu command no less) then G does not exist. Point to the law of deductive, propositional, etc logic which supports your reasoning and we will consider your possible victory.

    You arrogance is astounding as if God sees you as threat and needs to strike you down. Man, I’m still laughing. I thought we would get something really inspiring here!

    You can send my $100 bucks to Habitat for Humanity.

    Wow!

  117. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:07 pm 117.marcus said …

    Oh, so YOU, truthteller, are god now? YOU are omnipotent! That must explain how YOU know whether or not I read your bible! That really is the trouble with religiots like you. You think you know it all. Ha! You know so very little.

    Anyway – so Cain married his sister, you say? Really? Where does it say that in your bible? How do you know? I thought the bible was the word of god. I thought one couldn’t challenge a single word of it. But now you are telling me that it is open to interpretation. If so, to what extent? How much of it can you believe? Because if one single shred of it is found to be untrue, then surely the whole damn thing is up for grabs.

    But enough of the distraction, and back to the challenge, Mr Know It All. DO YOU ACCEPT?

  118. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:11 pm 118.truthteller7 said …

    there is no threat to god it is simply that the devil challenged god and said that people only worship you because of what you can give them and if you take it away they will curse you to your face then satan says to god that all humans would turn away from god when going through temptation or trials read the book of “job” satan wants everyone to fall away from god but when you continue to love god and serve him you make gods heart rejoice give god something to say to the devil who is taunting him proverbs27:11

  119. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:16 pm 119.truthteller7 said …

    whoa first off come at me like a gentlemen im still a young lady and im not a know it all and i know that therefore i am humble but you must understand that this conversation would be pointless if you are to have a closed heart but anyway the bible is not up for anyones interpretation and i said nothing to make you think that so keep up i said he was with his sibling and you are no biologist so apparently it worked out fine that we are all here so next question

  120. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:24 pm 120.marcus said …

    Merlin.

    Yes, I am very much a threat to your god. Actually, I claim victory over your stupid god! Because I say that he, the supposedly most powerful being in the entire universe, is as utterly incapable of killing me as Zeus, Thor, Amun Ra and a thousand other man-made gods are.

    And if any of the above deities wants, I’ll happily arm-wrestle them to see who is right!

  121. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:28 pm 121.marcus said …

    Mr Know It All. Sorry, I didn’t understand a single word of your last 2 posts. Did cain marry his sister or not? And if so, where did said sister come from?

  122. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:31 pm 122.truthteller7 said …

    those dities are fake you see people like to make religions up that allow them to do what they want. so if they want to go to war then they pray to zues .but the only true god wouldnt want them to so people like to think to themselves id rather be apart of that religion cause its easier rather then caring about how to please god id rather please myself and pretend i please god but god loves you and he wont strike you down so why dont you ask the one true living god for something he would actually give you ask jehovah for wisdom

  123. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:36 pm 123.truthteller7 said …

    how can you not understand my last two posts like i said pray for wisdom pray to jehovah

  124. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:41 pm 124.marcus said …

    “those dities are fake”

    Well, I’m sure there are billions of devoutly religious people in the world right now who would disagree with you, truthteller. Indeed, people so convinced of their beliefs they are prepared to fly planes into buildings. And let’s face it, over the millennia man has made up untold numbers of gods to worship. To which end, the following might prove enlightening to you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZVRpqm0Cl0

    So, whose god is the only god?

    Hmmmmm. My betting is none of them. Or he/she/it really can strike me down with a bolt of lightning.

  125. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:49 pm 125.truthteller7 said …

    well first off look for the god who if had all power over the earth whenever he chooses to would do the right thing not a god who loves immorality and allows you to do whatever you want look for the god that gives insight to tell you the truth since the devil is the ruler of the world its fair to say that the most unpopular belief who mainly be the truth……………by the way people make up false gods to allow them to do bad things babylon is the empire on false religion the purpose of armegedon is to destroy it because the devil uses it as his greatest weapon against the true god

  126. on 17 Jul 2010 at 11:58 pm 126.truthteller7 said …

    im in new york the time on this site must mean your from somewhere else and its late where you are so if you want i can talk to you 2morrow so you can get some rest

  127. on 18 Jul 2010 at 12:03 am 127.marcus said …

    truthteller

    “…first off look for the god who if had all power over the earth whenever he chooses to would do the right thing.”

    So, why doesn’t he choose to do the right thing right now? Why doesn’t your god end poverty? Hunger? War? Pollution? Disease? Sorrow? Suffering? It would be so simple for him.

    After all, if he really is the one true god, then he could do it right here, right now. But he doesn’t, does he.

    So, is he a sadist? Or is it that like all the other gods, he simply doesn’t exist?

  128. on 18 Jul 2010 at 12:15 am 128.Godisamythdealwithit said …

    For truthseller:

    You really should work on your spelling and punctuation before attempting to debate here. It’s really hard to figure out what you’re trying to say.

  129. on 18 Jul 2010 at 12:16 am 129.truthteller7 said …

    im glad you ask because if you read revolations and the book of daniel you will see how scary accurate the prophecies are .so accurate even to the [point where it describes alaxander the greats land being divided into four parts after he died and the symbol was a four headed cheetah but anyway god is waiting so that many people can learn and join him because he loves us we are learning a valuable lesson that we need his rulership and trust me for political reasons i can tell you why you need to change your mind by october

  130. on 18 Jul 2010 at 12:17 am 130.truthteller7 said …

    sorry about the spelling and stuff a babies on my lap typing too

  131. on 18 Jul 2010 at 12:29 am 131.truthteller7 said …

    i hope you understood my posts but anyway once you know about true christian religion and not all those lies like hell being a fiery pitt of torture and trinities and holidays and crosses the truth will answer all questions

  132. on 18 Jul 2010 at 1:20 am 132.Merlin said …

    Marcus

    Big Guy! C’mon, get the check in the mail. You failed to demonstrate any logical paradigm against God. A High School prank is not proof.

    Therefore you lose the bet. It is now time to confess that God does exist right on this blog. That is, if you have any character and plan to live up to the terms of your bet.

    Thanks for the challenge.

  133. on 18 Jul 2010 at 1:22 am 133.Merlin said …

    Truth

    You are much easier to follow than Severin and his fellow atheist come to his defense of poor grammar regularly. You are fine really.

  134. on 18 Jul 2010 at 1:47 am 134.truthteller7 said …

    You make me feel very good any other questions

  135. on 18 Jul 2010 at 5:57 am 135.Severin said …

    116 Merlin
    Are you god’s lawyer?

    If Marcus is arrogant to god, let god do his job. Who asked you to play god’s lawyer. Did god personally delegated you?

    You are not able to support yourself!
    Your unsupported (stupid) claims are still on these pages, waiting for your explanation!

    Instead of taking role of god’s lawyer on yourself (how noble!), help yourself by adding some explanations to your claims.

    So, Merlin, we are still waiting to tell us WHY should we accept Jesus and not accept Allah to avoid hell.
    It was YOU who claimed that we should accept Jesus not to go to hell, so WHY Jesus, WHY NOT Allah?

    Why don’t you just honestly say you have no answer?

  136. on 18 Jul 2010 at 3:44 pm 136.3D said …

    76.Horatio said …

    Sev
    I suggest you understand Islam. No Muslim knows if they are going to heaven. It is a worked based relgion and they do not know if they will make it until they die. With Jesus, good deeds are just a by product of knowing Him.

    What funny terminology! “Works-based religion”… This is just a euphemistic way of saying that whether you go to heaven is based on whether you are a good person or not. As opposed to Christianity, where it doesn’t matter what bad things you do, as long as you kiss Jesus’s ass, and really mean it. Right?

    (By the way, Islam really isn’t “works-based” either — you can do all the good works you want and you still go to hell if you don’t believe in it — but that’s another argument.)

  137. on 18 Jul 2010 at 5:10 pm 137.Horatio said …

    Marcus,

    You disappoint. Using your logic my dog does not exist. He hasn’t killed me in my sleep.

    I wouldn’t advise making any more guarantees. It must be embarrassing and the reason you fellow atheist have distanced themselves.

    3D,

    Works based religion is a well know term. Islam requires following many rules and regulations to hopefully work your way to paradise. The only guarantee of paradise is martyrdom. Christ is grace through faith in Christ who changes from the inside out.

  138. on 18 Jul 2010 at 6:30 pm 138.Severin said …

    137 Horatio
    “Christ is grace through faith in Christ who changes from the inside out.”

    Do you recognize Christ as someone who has nothing to do with “god the father” and the “holy spirit”?

    All christian religions say that Christ=god=holy spirit, that they three are a “trinity” which is impossible to divide and are THE ONE.

    I am confused.

  139. on 18 Jul 2010 at 7:05 pm 139.Horatio said …

    “All christian religions say that Christ=god=holy spirit, that they three are a “trinity” which is impossible to divide and are THE ONE.”

    Why?

  140. on 18 Jul 2010 at 8:46 pm 140.Godisamythdealwithit said …

    Truthseller, I’d like to address just a few of your ridiculous claims.

    1) On near death experiences: No it is not true that EVERYONE who has a NDE meets Jesus. Yes, most of them say they saw a bright light and/or a divine presence, but who’s to say it was JC? Maybe it was Allah or Krishna or Thor or Ra the sun god or any of the hundreds of other gods people have worshipped over the years. OR it could be all in their heads,just an illusion of a dying brain. And what about the NDEs in which people experience nothing at all, just blackness/unconsciousness. There have been plenty of those, but of course reporters don’t want to write/talk about them. Not sensational enough.

    2) On JWs being the only True Christians: Funny how all the different denominations claim that theirs is the only One True Religion. Talk to devout Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, Mormons, Jews, etc. Every one of them will claim that their beliefs are right and yours are wrong. They will be just as adamant as you are about that. So what makes you SO sure that you’re 100% correct? Slightly off topic, JWs don’t even get to celebrate birthdays or holidays. How boring is that?

    3) On gay people being oh-so-evil: Isn’t your god supposed to be absolutely correct and perfect in everything he does? Isn’t he supposed to know everyone even before they’re born? And he makes everyone, right? So why would he make people gay if he didn’t want them to be that way? And before you answer that it’s a choice, did you CHOOSE to be straight? Imagine for a minute that your authority figures (priests, or whatever you call them) told you that god didn’t want you to be attracted to men anymore. (I know, it’s a stretch, but just try imagining it for one quick minute.) You would have to either learn to be attracted to women, or remain celibate for the rest of your life. You wouldn’t like that very much, would you? It would probably be pretty much impossible for you to do, even if you wanted to. Well, that should give you some idea of how gay people feel. In case you’re wondering, no, I’m not gay. I just believe everyone should be free to love whoever they want to love. Why are you people so concerned about the sex lives of people you don’t even know, anyway? How does it affect your own life and relationships in any way?

  141. on 18 Jul 2010 at 8:46 pm 141.truthteller7 said …

    you people are being hard headed a true christain does what jesus did, and i told you jehovah witnesses do not worship a trinity or believe in a hell where you are tortured so dont say all christians believe that stuff because we dont, and you people speak like satan who is critical and judgemental rev 12:10 and you are fools for challenging us to prove to us theres no god but whenever you ask a question and we answer you call us gods lawyers dont act like a child or you will be treated like one first off you need to realise god loves you and is giving you a chance to live forever in paradise he WILL NOT STRIKE YOU DOWN

  142. on 18 Jul 2010 at 9:01 pm 142.truthteller7 said …

    GODISADAMNMYTH

    I LOVE YOU FOR YOUR QUESTIONS YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST UNAWARE BUT HERES YOUR CHANCE TO BE OPEN HEARTED… YOU SEE BELIEVING THAT CHRISTIANS IS THE ONE TRUE RELIGION IS BECAUSE OF HOW ACCURATE THE PROPHECIES ARE AND HOW EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE has LEFT EVIDENCE( I WILL EXPLAIN THE EVIDENCE LATER) THEN TRUE CHRISTIANS ALSO DO WHAT CHRIST DID TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY SO WE DO NOT WORSHIP IDOLS THOSE RELIGIONS THAT DO ARE NOT TRUE. IF YOU KNOW WHAT GOD TOLD YOU TO DO THEN YOU JUST LOOK AT THE RELIGION THAT BESTS IMITATE JESUS BEHAIVIOR AND THE COMANDMENTS.SIMPLE……JEWS DIDNT WORSHIP A TRINITY SO WHEN GOD ABANDON THE ISREALITES(THE JEWS) HE MADE CHRISTIANS HIS NEW FLOCK AND HE WAS STILL ONE GOD JEHOVAH IN HEBREW…JHVH…..SOO AS FOR GAYS THEY ARE NOT BORN THAT WAY JUST AS A MAN CAN BE ABSTINENT AND A WOMAN CAN BE A NUN YOU CAN LIVE YOUR LIFE WITHOUT FUCKING ANOTHER MAN OR WOMAN SOOOOOOO LIKE THE DEVIL ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE JEALOUS OF GOD AND DID NOT PUT THOSE BAD THOUGHTS OUT HIS BRAIN SO PEOPLE DO THE SAME THEY DO NOT BANISH BAD THOUGHTS FROM THERE BRAIN AND YET ALLOW THE DESIRES TO BE THOUGHT ABOUT UNTILL THE DESIRE GROWS TO BIG GAYS SHOULD NOT BE HARMED IN ANY WAY GOD SAYS RETURN EVIL FOR EVIL TO NO ONE VENGENCE IS GODS ONLY AND SO WE MUST NOT HARM OTHERS AND WE MUST NOT ALLOW OURSELVES TO THINK ABOUT BAD DESIRES

  143. on 18 Jul 2010 at 9:07 pm 143.truthteller7 said …

    IMAGINE I SAID TO A GAY PERSON THAT I WOULD GIVE THEM 10 MILLION BUCKS FOR EVERY YEAR THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH A MAN DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD DO IT OR WHAT IF I KIDNAPPED SOME GAY PERSONS RELATIVE THAT THEY LOVE VERY MUCH AND I SAID I WOULD KILL THEM THE DAY THAT GAY HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD LISTEN …….NOW TELL ME IS BEING GAY A CHOICE A DESIRE AND ITS A BIG DESIRE BECAUSE THE DEVIL MAKES IT OK ON TV SO NOW ITS HARDER TO RESIST BUT ITS WRONG BUT DONT WORRY WE STILL LOVE EVERYONE AND TREAT THEM GOOD

  144. on 18 Jul 2010 at 9:12 pm 144.truthteller7 said …

    OH YEA NO ONE SEES JESUS AT A NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE THEIR ARE NO GHOSTS DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN SPEAK WITH THE DEAD BECAUSE THE DEMONS WILL KNOW YOU DESIRE TO SPEAK WITH THE DEAD AND THEY WILL USE IT TO MISLEAD YOU AND IMITATE THE DEAD PERSON THE SPIRITS CAN LOOK LIKE YOUR RELATIVES AND SOUND LIKE THEM AND TELL YOU ABOUT THE PAST IF YOU BELIEVE IN GHOSTS THE DEMONS WILL FUCK WITH YOU SIMPLY TO MISLEAD YOU FROM GOD PERHAPS EVEN KILL YOU

  145. on 18 Jul 2010 at 9:29 pm 145.truthteller7 said …

    AND GOD MADE EVERYTHING PERFECT BUT SATAN AND ADAM AND EVE TURN THEMSELVES INTO SINNERS SO NOW WE HAVE SIN BUT IF YOU BELIEVED IN JEHOVAH AND DID WHAT HE ASKS OF YOU WHICH IS TO LOVE HIM WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND VITAL FORCE THEN DOING HIS COMMANDMENTS WONT SEEM LIKE A BURDEN AND IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT GOD ASKS OF YOU YOU WILL SEE ITS NOT THAT HARD AND IF YOU DO THIS ONCE GOD DESTROYS THIS EVIL ‘SYSTEM OF THINGS” YOU WILL LIVE FOREVER IN A PARADISE EARTH THAT MEANS THE GARDEN OF EDEN WILL BE SPREAD EARTHWIDE AND YOUR CHILDREN WILL PLAY WITH LIONS YOU WILL SEE THE DEAD RELATIVES WHO GOD CHOOSES TO RESERECT AND YOU WILL KNOW THE WONDERS OF THE EARTH HUMANS CPULD HAVE NEVER FOUND OUT IN THIS EVIL SYSTEM ……DO YOU NOT WANT THIS NO MORE AMPUTEES THEY WILL BE HEALED THE OLD WILL BE HEALTHY ……..THAT SOUNDS WONDERFUL AND I PRAY TO SEE YOU THERE OMG OMG OMG OMG HIS PROMISE IS SO THAT THE MEEK ONES WILL INHERIT THE EARTH TO TIMES INDEFINITE DONT YOU WANT TO BE THERE JEHOVAH WILL GIVE IT TO YOU IF YOU LOVE HIM AND TRY TO BE HIS FRIEND ITS SO SAD THAT HE HAS TO ASK YOU TO LOVE HIM HES YOUR FATHER ……IMAGINE FOR A SECOND THAT GODS REAL AND SO IS JESUS DID YOU KNOW BEFORE JESUS WENT INTO THE LAND WERE HE WAS GONNA DIE JUST A FEW DAYS B4 HE DIED HE STOPED LOOKED AROUND AND CRIED AND CRIED THAT THE HEART OF MAN WAS SO COLD AND THEY WOULDNT LISTEN IF GOD AND JESUS ARE REAL HOW SAD DO YOU THINK YOUR MAKING HIM RIGHT NOW AND IF SATAN IS REAL HOW HAPPY YOU THINK HE IS THAT YOU BLAME GOD FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE DEVIL DEMONS AND MAN SATAN IS HAPPY WHEN YOU MAKE JEHOVAH CRY

  146. on 18 Jul 2010 at 10:21 pm 146.Godisamythdealwithit said …

    Sorry, truthseller, I know you’re trying, but you’re never going to convert me. All you’ve done is confirm my belief that you are living in a fantasy world. The Bible is nothing but an ancient book written by primitive men. It’s got a few good stories in it, but it’s not something you should be basing your whole life on.

  147. on 18 Jul 2010 at 10:48 pm 147.truthteller7 said …

    WELL THEN TELL ME WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? PLUS IF YOU ACTUALLY STUDIED YOU WOULD SEE ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED BUT IT SAYS IN THE BIBLETHAT IN THE LAST DAYS MAN WILL WANT TO HEAR WHAT TICKLES THE EAR AND THEY WILL BRAKE ALL PRACTICAL WISDOM WHEN YOUR READY FOR POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS TRUTH GO TO PRISONPLANT.COM AND INROWARS.COM FOR POLITICS AND GO TO A JEHOVAHS WITNESS FOR RELIGION AND YOU HAVE UTERLLY FAILED TO PROVE THERES NO GOD I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS WITH VERY REASONABLE ANSWERS SOOOOO UMMMM……..JUST KNOW AS AN AMERICAN OUR COUNTRY IS FULLFILLING BIBLE PROPHECY WITH THIS NEW WORLD ORDER THEY ARE TRYING TO PUSH ON US THE PRESIDENTS ARE PUPPETS AND THE ILLUMINATI IS DERVIVED FROM THE NAME LUCIFER AND THEY ARE A SATANIC CULT TRYING TO BRING THE WORLD UNDER A GLOBAL DICTATORSHIP YOU SHOULD LOOK UP THE SKULL AND BONES FRATERNITY AT YALE THAT BUSH WAS IN AND LEARN HOW THE GOVERNMENT IS DIRECTLY INFLUNCED BY SATAN AND THEY ARE GOING TO BRING US INTO A DEPRESSION WORSE THAN EVER AND WATCH OUT FOR THE OCTOBER SURPRISE AND THERE IS SODIUM FHLOURIDE IN OUR WATER THAT IS A TOXIC THAT CAUSES ARTHRITIS AND LUNG PROBLEMS OVER TIME AND I WISH YOU GUYS WISE UP BECAUSE SHITS ABOUT TO GET BAD LOOK FOR SATANIC SIGNS IN TELEVISION THE ILLUMINATI EYE IS EVERYWHERE AND ONCE YOU SEE SATANS SIGNS OF INFLUENCE IN TV AND EVERYWHERE PLEASE COME BACK TO ME JACET.WILLIAMS@YAHOO.COM BECAUSE SOON OBAMA IS GONNA HAVE THE POWER TO BLOCK WHAT HE DOESNT WANT US TO SEE ONLINE(THE TRUTH)HES GONNA PASS THAT BILL SAYING ITS CYBERSECURITY SO PLEASE JEHOVAH SAVE THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE I DONT KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY TO YOU IT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT TV HAS MADE PEOPLE BELIEVE CONSPIRACY IS CRAZY BUT IT IS NOT REMEMBER THAT SATAN CONTROLLS THE WORLD SO POPULAR WAYS OF THINKING AND LIVING MAINLY COME FROM HIM MY BROTHERS IL NEVER GIVE UP ON YOU AND I DO LOVE YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT BYE

  148. on 18 Jul 2010 at 11:35 pm 148.MrQ said …

    @truthseeker7

    It’s wonderful when one lives with a degree of reality in their life; you should try it.
    But, if the batshit lunacy you’re spouting keeps you on the straight and extremely narrow, then stay the course.

    Just out of curiosity, are you a born again? Or did you grow up with these ideas/thoughts/teachings?

  149. on 18 Jul 2010 at 11:54 pm 149.truthteller7 said …

    my political views i believe because of the facts i know about american history plus it coincides with revalations and its seperate from the teachings of my religion in my religion they say not to get involved with political affairs i am a jehovahs witness and i wasnt raised in a religion i had just started to learn for the past 3 yaers and look at all i have learned but if you want to know the facts of politcs fo yourself look at the movie obamas deception by alex jones it will give you facts about how 9-11 was an inside job and the things the government does to keep us away from the truth ….also i was watching a movie by alex jones called the dark secrets of bohemia grove and when you see the kinds of things that our world leaers are up to and how they are raisedin the occult then you will beg for god to save you i know you think its crazy but im not just your average 19 yro female but i have to admit after seeing the things that satan uses and just how much he hates us i feel scared to be in my house alone the facts are that in october there needs to be some kind of disaster like a storm or terror attack something as big as 9-11 its gonna happen because people are starting to see obamas fill of shit and in order to save his popularity so that he can convince us to vote for a new world order america is gonna cause a disaster very ig then lie and say it was someone else just like 9-11 so that we will run to obama like help us then he will tell us nwo is the way please just wait untill october this is not a prophecy so dont think it is im just telling you look up infowars.com and prisonplanet.com i live in the real world and you live in the world satan and his followers want you to live in go ahead and look up sodium fhlouride you will see its in your water i know you dont know me but trust me i would never lie to you god makes sure everyone has had the chance to know him so that when he comes there wont be any excuses

  150. on 18 Jul 2010 at 11:56 pm 150.A real-ist said …

    Ok, so now we got someone spewing BS about Jehovahs Witness claiming that is the true religion.

    Too many religions to choose from. How does one choose a religion? The majority of people are brainwashed as a kid growing up in that environment. A great example is with my little nephews where the oldest is 4. My sister has spent this past week in something call bible vacation school with little kids where part of it is where they learn versus. These kids are currently being brainwashed at a young age to think that God and his magic tricks are reality. And this goes with all religions. It is what ever environment they grow up in. But what if the environment they grow up in is not the correct religion? This is why none of the religions are real. They are all just made up myths. All just wishful thinking.

  151. on 19 Jul 2010 at 12:10 am 151.truthteller7 said …

    huuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh…….. well if you athiest keep saying it is a myth then tell me what is the truth??????????……..and i keep answering this question over and over……read my posts but i will say it again everything in the christian bible has happened scientifically such as the flood however instead of saying god flooded the earth men say it was global warming or something but they can never say it wasnt god….then if you are a christian you must follow the commandments and follow jesus example to the best of your ability so look at the christian religion and the ones that worship idols and such bad things that god said not to do will therefore be untrue

  152. on 19 Jul 2010 at 12:13 am 152.truthteller7 said …

    just because you who doesnt study the bible cant tell if theres a true religion doesnt mean that there isnt one so if you are gonna challenge someone to saying god is a myth then tell me why hes a myth and tell me how the earth the heavens and the universeb and humans came to be

  153. on 19 Jul 2010 at 12:28 am 153.truthteller7 said …

    if you cant explain it and i can explain it and you cant prove me wrong then we can conclude im right your wrong and you can do is say”well i choose not to believe it” then dont believe it you will soon and the fact is you have not proven your point therefore you should admit that you havent and …….trust me if you go to a kingdom hall you will know the meaning of brothers and sisters you would never say whats the point of religion because you will be warmly welcomed and treated with such patience

  154. on 19 Jul 2010 at 12:50 am 154.MrQ said …

    @tt7

    There are many shades of faith and reason. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
    The bible and gospels are faith based. Your view appears to be that they are historical documents.
    For example, try and apply little bit of logic and reason to the story of Noah’s Ark. It will fall apart very quickly and you will see it for the myth/allegory/metaphor that it actually is. It’s just a story, no more real than a Harry Potter story.
    But if you have true faith, then reason does not matter. Faith should be blind whereas reason requires open eyes and mind.
    Good luck in your journey.

  155. on 19 Jul 2010 at 1:12 am 155.3D said …

    137.Horatio said …

    3D,
    Works based religion is a well know term. Islam requires following many rules and regulations to hopefully work your way to paradise.

    I know that works-based religion is a well known term. I didn’t say you made it up, I just think it’s funny when you use that to contrast it to Christianity, which is NOT a “works-based religion”.

    In other words, it doesn’t matter what the hell you do in Christianity, you can be as bad a person as you want, even murder or molest children, and as long as you sincerely believe Jesus is the real God at the end of your life and worship him, you go to heaven and the poor schmucks who spent their whole lives working hard to be good people but aren’t Christians will burn in hell.

    You keep making semantical dodges, but bottom line, this is the message of Christianity, and by any normal person’s moral code, it is sick, twisted, unfair and ridiculous.

    The only guarantee of paradise is martyrdom. Christ is grace through faith in Christ who changes from the inside out.

    Tell me, why are the prisons filled with repeat offenders who are Christians, if Christ changes you from the inside out?

  156. on 19 Jul 2010 at 1:30 am 156.Horatio said …

    “Tell me, why are the prisons filled with repeat offenders who are Christians”

    Where is the proof? You mean religious or those who know Christ? Maybe you mean those who discovered Christ in prison?

    “In other words, it doesn’t matter what the hell you do in Christianity, you can be as bad a person as you want”

    Are you attempting to be facetious or do you REALLY believe such silliness? If you really believe it, I now understand.

  157. on 19 Jul 2010 at 1:36 am 157.Merlin said …

    Oh, 3D believes we should have to work our way to heaven. If the standard is perfection 3D, who could possibly get in to heaven? Hmmm? It is the whole reason Jesus came. Nobody to keep perfection other than Jesus.

    Would you consider yourself to good enough 3D? Maybe you think you should get to set the standard? How truly arrogant.

  158. on 19 Jul 2010 at 1:38 am 158.truthteller7 said …

    to 3D …..who are you quoting?the christ that belongs to false christian religions is not the same from the christ that follows the true god like i said you have to forget the false traditions of false religion we are talking about jehovahs christians and i can see already that you have nothing to say about our true form of christian beliefs because you do not know what we believe and to mr q………i think you need to go to the history channel and watch the documentary on how they know for a fact that a flood came about but they just dont know if god caused it and also look at the different cultures and you will find it amazing that through the years and lands everyone has a story with a man on an ark on top of water also it is very possible for the ark to have been able to servive because Noah was making it for 50 years with gods guidenace on how to build it and the bible is not as much faith based as you think of course you need to believe but god says to not be blind but examine his words he says this because there will be many saying they have come from christ but they are not so why dont you MR Q go to the history channel online and see how scientifically the flood was possible why do you think we have the south and north poles and rainbows

  159. on 19 Jul 2010 at 1:46 am 159.truthteller7 said …

    nad remember there are apostates and followers of false religion so stop looking at who is in prison because it is unimportant and in order to get into paradise you must either die before armegedon because through death you pay for all sins so god will bring people back from the grave those he feels deserve and those still living must love jehovah and do his will remember god sees into the heart and humans can only see with the eyes so only he really knows so stop saying no matter how christians are they cant get into paradise because that isnt true

  160. on 19 Jul 2010 at 2:18 am 160.A real-ist said …

    The flood is a true historical event? Ummm…No. Small parts of the world have flooded at certain times (for example, glaciers melting), but the whole world never flooded at one time. For one thing, there isn’t enough water to accmplish that. And Noah, come one, think logically with this one. He picked up 2 of every species in the world and put them back while they didn’t eat each other in the meantime? You live in fantasy world if you think that could happen. And scientists did do a study based on if an actual ark was built and if there was a flood, there would be no way possible it would stay afloat for too long. And rainbows? You do know that when sun rays hit rain drops that is what forms rainbows, right?

    And nontruthteller, if you want to know all of my beliefs go back and read the last 3 or 4 months of my many postings. I don’t feel like or have the time to rewrite all of them for you. But I can sum if up for you in a sentence…Religion and God are not real and are made up by humans over a long period of time. They are just stories that you would find in today’s fiction section of the library. And I also like to ask education levels of believers because I think it is important to have a good overall education in all the major areas before one can go out and claim something is true. For example, if you had any kind of education you could easily realize that Noah’s Ark is impossible. So what is your education level? I notice you started following your religion at age 16 and are now 19. You just sound like another brainwashed whacked out individual.

  161. on 19 Jul 2010 at 3:38 am 161.3D said …

    157.Merlin said …

    Oh, 3D believes we should have to work our way to heaven.

    No, I don’t think anything of the kind. I don’t believe heaven exists at all. And I think all the different methods to get into heaven, prescribed by different religions, are all equally stupid, like “working” your way to heaven, or suicide-plane-flying your way into heaven, or being allowed into heaven by kissing Jesus’s ass. They are all fairy tales, created by primitive people who didn’t understand simple things about the universe that every child in grade school now knows in 2010, and they were scared of a great many things, and very much afraid to die, so they made up stories about the soul continuing on.

    I believe that no one is watching humans to reward or punish us. The universe is indifferent to our joy and to our suffering. We make our own society to help people and our own laws to punish people, and we have to take care of each other and make life better for each other while we are here, because it’s the right thing to do. Not because we’re afraid to go to hell.

    If the standard is perfection 3D, who could possibly get in to heaven? Hmmm? It is the whole reason Jesus came. Nobody to keep perfection other than Jesus. Would you consider yourself to good enough 3D? Maybe you think you should get to set the standard? How truly arrogant.

    I’m certainly willing to make the bold assertion that I am more moral than a murderer or rapist! And I would even go out on a limb and say that, even though we disagree, YOU are probably more morally well-grounded than a murderer and a rapist too.

    Unfortunately, YOU can’t make that bold assertion about YOURSELF, because you believe, in your wacked out value system created by weirdo cultists 2,000 years ago, that all people are equally evil. And that if the murderer and the rapist kneel down and recite the same prayers and incantations that you do, and really believe it, they get the same reward you get when you all die. But, at the same time, you believe that little starving kids in Africa, who never heard of Jesus, or Buddhist monks who feed and clothe the poor and sick, but pray to the wrong god, will burn in hell. I think it’s a sick way to go through life.

  162. on 19 Jul 2010 at 3:41 am 162.3D said …

    160.A real-ist said …

    And Noah, come one, think logically with this one. He picked up 2 of every species in the world and put them back while they didn’t eat each other in the meantime? You live in fantasy world if you think that could happen.

    My biggest problem (among many) with that story… where did all the animal shit go?!

  163. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:06 am 163.truthteller7 said …

    There was a bunch of shows about noahs ark on channel logo today but you think a man in 50 years couldn’t build a big ass floating box with rooms to seperate the animals and food. a man couldn’t clean out the poop or deal with the smell there is proof that the earth was flooded that’s why man keep saying global warming is an issue there’s also proof because the north and south poles are here and since it is a fact that humans exsisted before the flood then since we know the flood did happen how do you suppose that human and animal life still exsists that’s because we are the desendents of noahs 3 sons and there wives and the animals exsist because god told noah to bring 2 of some animals and 7 of the other kinds and then they populated the earth and like I said in other posts rainbows came about when noah got out the ark he sacraficed an animal to god as thanks for saving them and god was so happy that he promised never to flood the earth ever again and created rainbows as a reminder of that promise

  164. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:17 am 164.3D said …

    143.truthteller7 said …

    IMAGINE I SAID TO A GAY PERSON THAT I WOULD GIVE THEM 10 MILLION BUCKS FOR EVERY YEAR THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH A MAN DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD DO IT OR WHAT IF I KIDNAPPED SOME GAY PERSONS RELATIVE THAT THEY LOVE VERY MUCH AND I SAID I WOULD KILL THEM THE DAY THAT GAY HAD SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN DO YOU THINK THAT THEY WOULD LISTEN …….NOW TELL ME IS BEING GAY A CHOICE A DESIRE AND ITS A BIG DESIRE BECAUSE THE DEVIL MAKES IT OK ON TV SO NOW ITS HARDER TO RESIST BUT ITS WRONG BUT DONT WORRY WE STILL LOVE EVERYONE AND TREAT THEM GOOD

    Troll. No one is this dumb.

  165. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:27 am 165.truthteller7 said …

    Oh and that was stupid when you said that there’s not enough water to flood the earth man doesn’t even know how deep the ocean is and remember it rained and over flooded oceans etc…the water was over the mountains even the birds drowned when they got tired of flying. can you give me facts that it never happened because I can give you the documentaries where it did lol you guys are sad and remeMber if you want god to strike you down just keep feeling the way you do and try to live long enough to see the day and you will get your request but every day u breathe is a chance for someone like me to try to convince you paradise is somewhere you want to be I want to see you there I imagine that if you believed in god the way you believe in no god then u men would be great leaders you just need to seek wisdom from the one who created wisdom- god. seek it as if you are seeking silver and god will give it to you plentiful its the only reason I am here

  166. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:35 am 166.truthteller7 said …

    Why are you calling me a troll I’m not calling anyone stupid but in the kingdom hall we often use examples or plays to demonstrate the teachings of gods word so remeber I am a young lady soooo respect me as I respect you and you can insult me but my god teaches me to love you anyway soooo iI LOVE YOU

  167. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:50 am 167.Severin said …

    139 Horatio
    „The Christian doctrine of the Trinity teaches the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine states that God is the Triune God, existing as three persons, but one being.”
    “Each person is understood as having the one identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures.”
    “Trinitarianism, belief in the Trinity, is a mark of Roman Catholicism, Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy as well as of the “mainstream traditions” arising from the Protestant Reformation, such as Anglicanism, Baptist, Methodism, Lutheranism and Presbyterianism. The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church describes the Trinity as “the central dogma of Christian theology”.

    If you ask me why is it so, I would not know, you should ask someone else, for example some christian.

    My question to you was: Do YOU recognize Christ as someone who has nothing to do with “god the father” and the “holy spirit”? Beacause if you do, you are not a christian.
    There is no religion, by my knowledge, recognizing only Christ as a god.
    But if you recognize the trinity, then by definition Christ = god father = the one who did crimes in the OT.
    he was not ABSENT when god did his crimes. He WAS THERE, he WAS god, and he can not be excused for hs father’s crimes, because he IS his father.
    Don’t you, please, ask me HOW or WHY, I did not invent it, but IF it is said so (and christianity is BASED on this doctrine!), then Jesus = god = terrible criminal from the OT.

  168. on 19 Jul 2010 at 4:53 am 168.A real-ist said …

    Wow, I can’t believe nontruthteller actually believes all that crap. There never was a flood that covered the whole earth! You claim it is possible because of how deep the oceans are and it rained? You do realize rain is water evaporation which happens in cycles. So combining the water evaporation and the actual water at any given time, there can only be a certain amount total, which could never cover the earth. Do you actually think when the oceans rose to a flood level like you described that there is a huge air pocket under the ocean? How else would it rise that much since there is only a certain amount of water that can be? And the reason why global warming, aka global climate change, is a problem when talking about rising sea levels, no one ever claims that the melting of the polar ice caps will cover the earth. It will cover much of the coasts, but it isn’t possible to cover everything. And back to Noah’s Ark, did Noah have a jet to pick up all the species in the world and then put them back again? How else would he be able to do that since he only has a boat that goes a certain speed? Please think about that one.

  169. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:09 am 169.truthteller7 said …

    Omg why you are acting like your slow he didn’t pick up the animals when he was on the boat he gathered them before then when god told him to put them on it he did remember he did this for 50. Years so its possible plus if you think the flood didn’t happen go look it up because I’m not gonna keep goin over the facts for you plus the boat didn’t even have to move simply float so think about it can a man and his 3 sons their wives his wife can they gather watever animals they needed in 5o years

  170. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:13 am 170.truthteller7 said …

    And the trinity doctrine is false true christians follow the christ who followed jehovah and jesus DID NOT worship a trinity so we as true christians don’t either so let’s move on I have told you this over again so please don’t bore me with the same questions

  171. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:32 am 171.truthteller7 said …

    Yes I know about the process of precipitation but if there was only a certain amount of water don’t you think we would have run out ?well we don’t because the there is a system in which water replenishes itself that’s obvious because water is still here

  172. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:00 am 172.Severin said …

    Truthteller

    There is some 1.3 billion cubic kilometers of water on earth. You would probably say god did it that way, but THERE IS NO MORE WATER on the earth.

    VERY simple calculation tells us that to rise level of water to the top of Mont Everest, we need MUCH more water than present here on our blue marble.

    So if oceans alreday existed in the time of big flood, where all the additional water came from?

  173. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:21 am 173.Severin said …

    Truthteller
    “If you know what god told you….”

    God never told me anything. I do not know anyone god told him/her a word.

    I am, of course, open to god’s words, but he/she/it should address directly to me and prove himself a god, to make me trust him.
    I do not believe there is ANY supernatural being, but if such a being exists, I kindly ask him/her/it to address to me.

    WHY would I trust you? WHY would I trust catholics, ortodox christians, muslims….? Because you/they SAY they are right, but opose each other and FIGHT each other, most frequently in very bloody fights/wars.
    They ALL claim the same BS (there is god, god is allmighty, all-loving…blah, blah), BUT are FIGTHING among them all the time. Some “love”!
    Moreover, most of them are basing their teachings ON THE SAME BOOK (the Bible).
    Incredible!

    If there is something like god, he/she/it is allways free and welcome to address to me.

    NOT using humans as mediators, thank you!

  174. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:30 am 174.Severin said …

    Truthteller

    What/who is “Satan”?
    I KNOW the story about rebellion af angels, don’t, please, waste your words to explain it.

    But it seems that the guy is VERY powerful!
    Is he more powerful than god? Or are they at least equal in power?
    I ask that because I all the time hear how god is FIGHTING satan.
    Isn’t god able to finally win?

    Do we have 2 gods, one “good” (god himself) and one “evil” (satan)?

    Is your religion multitheistic (in this case bitheistic)?

  175. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:52 am 175.Severin said …

    170 Thruthteller
    “…so we as true christians don’t either so let’s move on I have told you this over again so please don’t bore me with the same questions“

    So you are the true christians BECAUSE YOU SAY SO.
    Other christians say the same thing: they are all true chirstians! ALL of them take the Bible (the SAME Bible!!!) to prove them „true christians“, but their conflicts are full of blood (Ireland, etc, not to go to history), not of love.

    Not to mention that muslims are telling us EXACTLY the same thing: THEIR religion is the right one, THEIR god is the true one…full of love, of course, but blood is flooding the earth when interreligious conflicts occure. No love to see!

    Some evidences available that YOU are right and THEY are wrong?

    If not, please do not bore us with your sermons.
    You seem to be an intelligent young lady. Use your powerful young brain to THINK and to LEARN.

    Let god himself (herself/itself?) doing his job! If he/she/it exists, he/she/it will find his way to people’s mind.
    WHY would an allmighty god need YOU or any other mediator to make us believe in his existance?

  176. on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:52 am 176.A real-ist said …

    nontruthteller,

    So you are telling me Noah’s family spent 50 years not only building the boat but collecting the animals from around the world. How did they collect these animals since the ark was still being built? How did they get to certain areas of the world that are hard to get to? Also, keep in mind the Western Hemisphere was pretty much undiscovered during Noah’s supposedly time on earth. Did God tell Noah that the Western Hemisphere existed and so they went there but even after the flood when they brought the animals back to those places they never thought to tell others and even discover the areas themselves? So I guess the history books are wrong that America was discovered during Christopher Columbus’s era then since Noah is the real discoverer of America from Eastern civilizations. And by the way, water does not run out because of the cycle of evaporation. The same amount is on earth, it is just in certain states at certain times. And look up the flood that it really happened? What sources do you have because any real source I see doesn’t say it actually happened? And please tell me your education level. I am guessing it isn’t too good since you cannot construct proper sentences and your science knowledge isn’t too good.

  177. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:18 pm 177.truthteller7 said …

    first off god isnt fighting satan what happened long ago is that satan said to god that people only worship him for what he can give them and that any human who is faced with trials or temptations will abandon the true god especailly that humans will trade thier souls for material gain soooooo gods not fighting satan but he is letting satan try to prove his point …..showing humans that war and all the bad things are happening because we dont take his advice to heart and have you seen a war based on anyone who says that jehovah is the true god…….no….thats because we dont give sacred worship to anything besides jehovah pledging allegience to a flag is a subtle form of idolatry so we do not fight in wars or involve ourselves with voting because we dont care about any human coming to power on earth we await jesus and his kingdom that will destroy the knigdoms of man and in the bible it says not to put god to the test….we merely examine his words to find which bible speaks true …..like i keep telling you guys if you want to know god look at his creation god says that great appreciation for him will come to your heart if you stop for a moment and look really look at what he has created the stars the sky the grass you look at that and watch your heart melt also go to a kingdom hall you will find their true form of worship very refreshing and A REALIST……STOP INSULTING ME YOUR STARTING TO HURT MY FEELINGS.if you do not believe me about the flood use your computer and look up the info and see for yourselves if its possible……oh and remember that all he needed was a variety of animals to populate the earth god says that he allowed the birds and animals to come to him willingly so i guess its possible because i believe in god my mere exsistence proves that so i also believe that god influenced the animals to go with him willingly

  178. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:26 pm 178.truthteller7 said …

    what has happened in your lives that has made you so bitter towards god…if it is the trgedies that happens on earth look not at god but at the humans their bad choices and the one that seduces them satan stop making satan happy everytime you say the things you say …….

  179. on 19 Jul 2010 at 5:28 pm 179.truthteller7 said …

    oh and for the 50 years they warned people but everyone laughed at the silly man making a boat for many years they did not believe him just like you men who do not believe me

  180. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:16 pm 180.Severin said …

    177 Truthteller
    “…showing humans that war and all the bad things are happening because we dont take his advice…”

    So god is doing useless job! have wars everstopped?

    “…about the flood use your computer and look up the info and see for yourselves if its possible……”

    No, it is not! To rise the level of water on the earth to the top of Mont Everest, we need much more water than present on the whole earth, including the water eastimated to be present in the atmosphere. Use your pocket calculator and calculate yourself, it is a VERY simple calculation! I suppose you can calculate as simple things as the volume of a sphere. If not, ask someone who knows it.
    For the big flood we need some 13 times more water than present on the earth.

  181. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:24 pm 181.Severin said …

    177 truthteller
    “oh and remember that all he needed was a variety of animals to populate the earth god says that he allowed the birds and animals to come to him willingly…”

    So kangaroos came willingly from Australia to Noah’s ark? So did armadillos from South America, pinguins from Antartctic and polar bears form Arctic. How much time did they need to come to Noah’s country? Approximately?
    How did they survive conditions the were not used to live in on their looooong trip?

    Use YOUR brain, NOT A BRAIN OF SOMEONE WLSE!

  182. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:25 pm 182.Severin said …

    Truthteller

    And, yes, WHY should I trust you, if you are telling me EXACTLY what all religions are saying?

  183. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:27 pm 183.truthteller7 said …

    god is not doing a useless job that doesnt even make sence …..remember it seems like forever to us but to him it is not very long.AND wars will stop after jesus comes but a word of advice it says in the bible that in the last days it will get so bad that if jesus was not to come to save us( but he will)then we ALL would surely die SO WHEN THINGS GETS SO BAD DONT BLAME GOD JUST REMEMBER WHAT I TOLD YOU WHAT HE HAS SAID AND TRUST ME IT WONT BE AS BAD FOR YOU AS IT WILL BE FOR HIS PEOPLE …SATAN WILL TRY TO WIPE US OUT BUT GOD SAYS THAT JESUS IS COMING TO SAVE US YAY YAY YAY.AND LETS AGREE TO DISAGREE BECAUSE ITS OBVIOUS THAT AS I WRITE YOU DONT EVEN LOOK UP ANYTHING I TELL YOU TO SO YOUR NOT GONNA KNOW IF IT WAS POSSIBLE BECAUSE YOUR IGNORANCE IS YOUR BLISS.HOWEVER YET AGAIN I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS WITH REASONABLE ANSWERS AND YOU HAVE YET TO PROVE GOD DOESNT EXSIST SOOOOOO I WISH YOU ALL WELL BECAUSE SATANS WORDS ARE STRONG WITHIN YOU BUT I STILL LOVE YOU AND PRAY SPLENDID THINGS FOR YOU AND HOPEFULLY YOU WILL WISE UP SO THAT WE MAY MEET IN PARADISE I LONG TO SEE YOU COME TO ME AND SAY YOUR THAT GIRL WHO BROUGHT ME TO AN ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH REMEMBER MY NAME IS JACET I PRAY TO SEE YOU THERE

  184. on 19 Jul 2010 at 6:29 pm 184.truthteller7 said …

    YOU SHOULD TRUST ME I DID NOT WISH YOU HARM I HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT I HAVE TRUE LOVE FOR HUMANITY YET YOU STILL CURSE ME TO MY FACE

  185. on 19 Jul 2010 at 7:10 pm 185.truthteller7 said …

    HOW ABOUT THIS READ GEN 6:9-22 EXPLAINS NOAH WAS A GOOD MAN AND HOW GOD TOLD HIM TO BUILD THE ARK SO YOU CAN SEE THE DESIGN FOR YOURSELF THEN READ GEN 7:1-9 READ 7:19,7:21-24,READ 7:11 AND 8:13

  186. on 19 Jul 2010 at 8:38 pm 186.marcus said …

    Merlin, truthteller, Horatio et al,

    Just thought I’d let you know I’m still alive and kicking. You know, in case you were beginning to think that your god really had zapped me with his atheist-killer death ray or something.

    Anyway, as not one of you had the guts to accept the challenge I’m assuming you aren’t interested in finding out whether god really exists or not. (No surprises there, then.) So, end of ‘debate’.

    So, keep your blind, mindless faith, amigos. Enjoy your lives in unquestioning servitude to a non-existent figment of primitive man’s imagination. I wish you well. Me, I’m going to live out my days in the thoroughly contented knowledge that my mind is free, that I need never kneel in fear and subjugation before anyone or anything, and that there absolutely is no genocidal brute of a monster in the sky waiting to judge me.

  187. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:04 pm 187.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “READ GEN 6:9-22″
    “READ GEN 7:1-9 READ 7:19,7:21-24,READ 7:11 AND 8:13″

    You of faith – you get the idea perfectly. Keep reading; stop questioning and thinking. Your struggle is over as long as you keep reading your bible – It’s ALL in there. Math is kinda tough for me too.
    Enjoy the journey.

  188. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:23 pm 188.truthteller7 said …

    well you have said that you were going to prove gods nonexsistence you have GREATLY FAILED and god does not have a athiest zapping death ray but you are right about one thing you will live out your short very numbered days and i….i will live forever .remember these words when you and your family live to see the day of judgement I TOLD YOU SO goodbye you very pathetic and immoral bunch of rapists and child molesters you are not good enough to be called men you are fools satans hildren and blind followers but you will be begging for god come OCTOBER i wont waste my time any more on this site because its obvious you guys have no proof of your rediculous claims all you have done is keep saying god doesnt exsist but have failed to bring reason to why he doesnt exsist or explain creation …….i will pray for you remember jehovah he is watching you

  189. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:35 pm 189.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “…you will be begging for god come OCTOBER”

    Oh christ!!! What’s happening in October? Another Yankee election? Halloween? Armageddon? Tell me, damn you!!!
    Does this mean I don’t have to get christmas presents for my wife and kids?

  190. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:37 pm 190.Merlin said …

    LOL, Marcus old boy. You never did shared your frame of logic. Tell you what, if you can provide your frame of propositional logic I will admit no deity and that Marcus rules over all. I look forward to seeing your outline.

    LOL, don’t look know but your brothers have distanced themselves. What a Potsie.

  191. on 19 Jul 2010 at 9:53 pm 191.truthteller7 said …

    MR Q it seems you athiests have a problem with reading because ive explained this in other posts…..first you dont read the bible but have problems with the stories in it now you ask me the same questions over and over let me explain to you bunch of rapists again….in october obama needs to save his popularity in order to convince the world to vote for a new world order you see people are seeing that obama is full of bs so america is going to cause a large disaster as big as 9-11 so that everyone will be scared and run to obama for help then he will block things on the internet that he doesnt want you to see under the pretence that it is cybersecurity ….now the disaster can be a storm or terror attack or something really bad happening in the war but no matter what it is it has to be as big as 9-11 go to infowars.com thats pure facts no opinions …..and why celebrate christmas if you are an athiest your full of shit

  192. on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:25 pm 192.truthteller7 said …

    O M fucking god oh man im gonna cry i know you people dont believe me but you just have to i was on the alex jones website and i found out that the documentaries that he has made exposing the lies of the government has been erased the government hacked his computer and erased them but i guess you dont care about anything because you have no morals this a first amendment violation

  193. on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:32 pm 193.truthteller7 said …

    please please please please im begging you to go to youtube type in alex jones pick the first one please before you will never be able to see any of the truth ideas ever again please

  194. on 19 Jul 2010 at 10:59 pm 194.A real-ist said …

    So according to nontruthteller, all athiests are rapists. How ignorant. And keeps claiming a big terrorist attack is going to take place in October. I think nontruthteller is telling us she is going to be the terrorist and cause the attack. What a wack job.

  195. on 19 Jul 2010 at 11:15 pm 195.truthteller7 said …

    o m g im sorry for calling you rapists i was just trying to say that you dont believe in god because you dont want to feel as if you have someone to answer to when you do bad things but im not a terrorist and i know your smart enough to know this just please go look up alex jones right now….why cant you people see when someone truely cares all you can do is say they are crazy dont you think the truth would be crazy or atleast what society would deem crazy……please look up alex jones right now i swear you will find it to be true PLEASE!!!!!!

  196. on 20 Jul 2010 at 12:39 am 196.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “and why celebrate christmas if you are an athiest your full of shit”

    It does not matter what you call it; be it Winter Solstice, Kwanza, Hannukkah, Krismas, christmas, or whatever. I celebrate the holiday season in December with my family. I grew up with christmas, so that’s OK with me. No nativity scenes at my house, none of my kids, myself or my wife go to church and “do mass”, no prayers to the sky-daddy, we just enjoy the together time and even partake of the local parade. The reason for the christmas season is Santa Claus.

    We also happen to celebrate the season of Halloween, a pagan and evil time with all those vampires, devils, and ghosts about. And I notice some of my double standard christian friends also take in the festivities. tsk, tsk!!!

    We don’t discriminate or care what you call the season, just let us have the time together as a family and celebrate/party with the rest of society.

  197. on 20 Jul 2010 at 12:43 am 197.MrQ said …

    @tt7

    Maybe we can communicate with the blog in February/March 2011 and you can tell me and everyone else just how bad things are.
    In the meantime, relax and enjoy your life!

  198. on 20 Jul 2010 at 1:05 am 198.truthteller7 said …

    oh and i didnt say it was a terror attack it will be any kind of disaster that will be as big as 9-11 however the media wont tell us that it was really our government that planned it if you knew the whole story it wouldnt seem so crazy but if you dont believe me i wash my hands of you because it hurts to see how cold hearted another human being can be especially one that claims to know the real truth ie …you guys

  199. on 20 Jul 2010 at 1:10 am 199.truthteller7 said …

    oh my you make me feel good MR Q …..kindness is always the way to go i just like to let people know its like seeing a burning building and not telling anyone in it that its on fire…..oh and by the way real christians do not celebrate any holidays including christmas they are pagan and we love to give thanks and spend time with family everyday not only on holidays……..

  200. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:11 am 200.MrQ said …

    @tt7

    “real christians do not celebrate any holidays including christmas they are pagan and we love to give thanks and spend time with family everyday not only on holidays”

    I’d better let my xtian friends know that they’re doing it wrong. It must be true, I saw it written on the INTERNET.

    And, yes, this atheist also spends as much time with the family as possible. It’s just that sometimes that nasty business of going to work and earning a living gets in the way. Holidays are a great time to chill with the brood.

  201. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:14 am 201.A real-ist said …

    “you dont believe in god because you dont want to feel as if you have someone to answer to when you do bad things”

    Why do I need a man in the sky to answer to? I can answer to my own conscience. A main reason I don’t believe there is a God is because I know when I talk to myself it is myself I am talking to, not some other being. I am a good person and live a decent moral life, and I don’t need someone else that is an imaginary friend to talk to. Thats right, your God is actually just your imaginary friend.

    ———

    And Alex Jones…..seems just like another one of those radio hosts that are good at brainwashing people’s minds. Other examples are Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck.

    ——-

    “real christians do not celebrate any holidays including christmas they are pagan”

    So you understand that a holiday like Christmas is a made up holiday, but you don’t understand that all religions including God are made up just like that?

    ———–

    “disaster that will be as big as 9-11 however the media wont tell us that it was really our government that planned it if you knew the whole story it wouldnt seem so crazy”

    I actually believe that 911 was planned by our government. But that was the Karl Rove’s, Dick Cheney’s, and Bush’s Halliburton planning that. They wanted a reason to start the war and make their own personal profit while doing it and needed us common folk to have a reason to back them. So they had a reason that would favor them behind it. What would Obama need a reason for or gain out of it? He inherited a war, a huge deficit, and a bad econonmy. He is slowly trying to get the economy back together, which isn’t an easy task especially when the Republicans are blocking a lot of what he wants to pass in order to make him look bad so people vote Republican again. I am not saying Obama is perfect. It is eitehr you can have the really bad guys (Republicans) or lesser bad guys (Democrats). So if you try to get rid of the lesser bad guys by calling them bad, what you have in place instead is the really bad guys.

  202. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:17 am 202.truthteller7 said …

    i can tell you the origins of each major holiday with proof you can look up yourself if you want to get into it and ……..christians work too but we know that god and family come first and will forsake anything for our family and jehovah because our sky daddy will make sure we have what we need if we do according to his will

  203. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:30 am 203.truthteller7 said …

    MR realist….ALEX JONES IS AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE GLENN BECK AND YOUR RIGHT ABOUT THE WAR BUT YOUR NOT ENTIRELY INFORMED ….IF YOU VOTE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATIC IT DOESNT MATTER THEY ALL WORK FOR THE SAME PEOPLE THESE GROUPS ARE THE COUNCIL ON FORIEGN RELATIONS, BILDERBERG FOUND. , AND TRILATERAL COMM. ,AND THESE PRESIDENTS ARE PUPPETS MADE TO SEEM LIKE HEROES THEN TAKE THE BLAME WHEN EVERYTHING GOES WRONG THEY ARE SCAPEGOATS AND THE REAL PEOPLE CONTROLLING THE EARTH ARE CAUSING EVERYTHING BIG AND BAD IN IT SUCH AS FUNDING HITLER,ASSASINATING MARTIN LUTHER KNIG AND JOHN F. KENNEDY WHO WAS OUR LAST REAL PRESIDENT HE WAS KILLED BECAUSE HE REFUSED TO BE THIER PUPPETS IT WAS TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL FUTURE PRESIDENTS THAT IF THEY DO NOT OBEY THEY WILL BE MURDERED ……THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS NOT GOVERNMENT IT IS A MEGA BANK A CORPORATION THAT IS INTO ALOT OF BAD THINGS WATCH THE MOVIE OBAMAS DECEPTION YOU WILL SEE IT AND TRUST ME YOU WILL 100 PERCENT BELIEVE IT

  204. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:30 am 204.A real-ist said …

    nontruthteller says, “O M fucking god”

    Um, where is the morality in that? Although, I can imagine how it sounds when you are screaming it in bed. LOL

  205. on 20 Jul 2010 at 2:44 am 205.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “family come first and will forsake anything for our family”

    Well, that’s almost true. Good to pay lip service to something to make yourself feel good.
    Too bad you will refuse your dying child a blood transfusion to save their life. Sounds like a wacky belief precedes love of child.

  206. on 20 Jul 2010 at 3:03 am 206.truthteller7 said …

    OH AND AS FAR AS CHRISTMAS GOES LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS WAS BORN IN BETHLEHEM AND THAT THERE WERE MEN IN THE FIELDS”LIVING OUT OF DOORS AND KEEPING WATCHES IN THE NIGHT OVER THEIR FLOCKS’NEAR BETHLEHEM LUKE 2:8-12 SO SINCE THE JEWISH MONTH OF CHISLEV CORRESPONDES TO NOV-DEC AND THE JEWISH WORD TEBETH IS DEC-JAN THE BIBLE WRITER EZRA SHOWS THAT CHISLEV WAS INDEED KNOWN FOR COLD RAINY WEATHER AND ONE DAY DURING THIS MONTH EVERYONE WAS SAYING THAT IT WAS TO COLD TO STAND OUTSIDE EZRA 10:9,13 JEREMIAH 36:22 SO IF YOU NEED ME TO CONECT THE DOTS FOR YOU BASICALLY IT WAS SAID IN THE BIBLE THAT MEN WERE OUTSIDE WHEN JESUS WAS BORN WATCHING THIER FLOCKS HOWEVER THE BOOK OF EZRA SHOWS THAT IN THE MONTH OF CHISLEV/DECEMBER THAT IT WAS TO COLD AND RAINY TO BE OUTSIDE THEREFORE JESUS COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLE BEEN BORN IN DECEMBER AND IF THATS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU LETS EXAMINE BIRTHDAYS ….THEY WERE CREATED BY PEGANS IN WHICH THEY BELIEVED THAT DURING YOUR BIRTHDAY A SPIRIT WOULD FOLLOW YOU AND TO TRUE CHRISTIANS THE ONLY SPIRIT CREATURES ON EARTH ARE DEMONS AND WE WOULD NOT WANT TO ASSOCIATE THE BIRTH OF JESUS WITH DEMONS AND IF THATS NOT ENOUGH JEHOVAH SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT HOLIDAYS THAT EXALT HUMANS OR HUMAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE TO HIM JEREMIAH 17:5-7,ACTS 10:25,26

  207. on 20 Jul 2010 at 3:14 am 207.truthteller7 said …

    I DID NOT WANT YOU TO BELIEV THAT I DO RIGHT BY GOD I HAVE A SON AND I AM TRYING TO ….TELL ME WOULD YOU CHOOSE YOUR WIFE OR YOUR CHILD THE BIBLE SAYS TO FORSAKE ALL OTHERS(ACCEPT GOD) FOR YOUR HUSBAND OR WIFE SO TELL ME AND MR REALIST KEEP IMAGINING BECAUSE YOU COULD NOT HANDLE THIS

  208. on 20 Jul 2010 at 3:37 am 208.MrQ said …

    @tt7

    ” WOULD YOU CHOOSE YOUR WIFE OR YOUR CHILD THE BIBLE SAYS TO FORSAKE ALL OTHERS(ACCEPT GOD) FOR YOUR HUSBAND OR WIFE”

    What are you trying to say? give me a scenario.

    I choose to put my family first because I love them more than having faith that a god will intervene. If a blood transfusion is necessary to keep them alive, I will choose to have it (or whatever measure) done. See what living in a world free from supernatural gods and superstitions can be like?

  209. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:37 am 209.truthteller7 said …

    there is a certain place for each member of the family god gave each one a specific bunch of orders one of them was to love one another more then your children and your mothers so tell me what if your child and your wife were at two oppostite ends of a river drowning and you only had time to save one who would it be?

  210. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:41 am 210.truthteller7 said …

    you can live in your god free imagination but if i was to allow my son not to accept a blood transfusion he will live forever rather then live a few more years then die at the hands of god see the gift of paradise life eternally is a reality i have ,i think its better then living ten more years in the world you live in care to join me????

  211. on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:25 am 211.truthteller7 said …

    listen i have been trying to see if the documentary obamas deceptions has been blocked now tell me how does the documentary violate anything the establishment doesnt want us to see it 75,000 blogs has been deleted you have to listen watch the fall of the republic try to find obamas deception before they block everything LISTEN I KNOW YOU DONT KNOW ME AND DONT TRUST ME BUT THIS IS A TEST TO SEE WHAT THEY CAN DO BEFORE WE NOTICE IF WE ARE EVER GONNA NOTICE….JUST WATCH IT THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE ME OMG I SAY THIS WITH A DEEP WEIGHT ON MY HEART THAT IF YOU SIMPLY WATCH THE DVD YOU WILL BE ENLIGHTENED PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU WILL DO IT………..I AM ASKING YOU PICTURE ME IN FRONT OF YOU ASKING YOU TO SIMPLY FIND AND WATCH THE MOVIES FREE ONLINE PLEASE THE BANKS ARE NOT FREE MARKET THEY ARE THE ENEMY PLEASE SAY YOU WILL WATCH IT PLEASE

  212. on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:51 am 212.truthteller7 said …

    SOMETIMES I WOULD FEEL LIKE ARMEGEDON SHOULD JUST COME TO STOP SUFFERING AND BAD PEOPLE EVEN IF IT HAD INCLUDED MYSELF BUT WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY GOOD THINGS I REALISE WHY GOD DOESNT COME AS SOON AS I WANT ….ITS BECAUSE HE WANTS AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO COME TO KNOW HIM AND THOUGH I FEEL SAD TO KNOW THAT OUR REPUBLIC IS FALLING INTO ANOTHER DEPRESSION WORLDWIDE THIS TIME, 30 MILLION VIEWS ALEX JONES HAS SO I KNOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE FINDING POLITICAL TRUTH MAYBE THEY MIGHT FIND RELIGIOUS MR Q ,MARCUS ,SEVERIN AND MR REALIST.3-D HUUUHHH PLEASE DONT THROW IT OUT OF YOUR HEAD JUST LOOK IT UP REALLY TRY TO BE OPEN MINDED YOU CAN TELL THERES SOMETHING NOT QUITE RIGHT WITH THE WORLD …….PLEASE DO THIS ….FOR ME…….FOR YOURSELVES FOR YOUR FAMILY PLEASE

  213. on 20 Jul 2010 at 3:23 pm 213.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    from post#209
    “you only had time to save one who would it be”

    Impossible to say. I have three kids, each with varying swimming abilities. I would assess the situation and attempt to rescue both. Who knows? I cannot even imagine that happening. If it does, I’ll let you know what transpired.

    Now you imagine that your son requires a life saving blood transfusion. Will you let him die in your arms or hand him to a doctor? In your mind the only way you can show your love for your child is to allow them to die. Isn’t that sick?

  214. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:20 pm 214.truthteller7 said …

    now if god exsists and he was dying i would rather let him live in a paradise earth then live in hunger and abuse which is gonna happen really soon in america we will be a third world country and martial law is in america sooo…..id rather let him be remembeed by god because in gods memory are those going to paradise that have already passed away.thata means alot of your relatives will be there care to join me?…….and look up alex jones movies obams deception and fall of the republic

  215. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:49 pm 215.truthteller7 said …

    i also want to let you know that never in history has google or youtube put a video back online after the user erases it(remember the government hacked alex jones computers to erase the videos)and now youtube and google erased most other links to obamas deception so that they can make you RENT the movie for 2.95 dont be fooled there are still links to view it for free alex jones wanted everyone to view it for free so please if you like america as a free country you have to protect freedom of speach no matter whats being said

  216. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:55 pm 216.truthteller7 said …

    i have never seen the movie ROAD WARRIORS but many people believe that this is the kind of depression we are going to go into so im gonna watch it. i hope you do too ,ROAD WARRIORS

  217. on 20 Jul 2010 at 4:55 pm 217.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “if god exsists”

    That is one big “IF”. You put a lot of faith in that which you cannot see or prove.
    Isn’t there a bible story of someone commanded by god to kill his son? He chose to carry out the order and at the last moment god said “just kidding, I was testing you”. Can’t imagine that many happy family dinners took place after that.
    I see how xtian love works, obey that voice in your head, obey the mistranslated texts, and sacrifice your children in the process. Interesting!!
    I will raise my kids without that sort of love. Thanks anyway.

  218. on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:40 pm 218.truthteller7 said …

    well first of all god stoped abraham and told him to sacrafice the lamb stuck in the bushes beside him instead .and abraham was willing to kill his son because he knew that jehovah promised him that he would have a son and would not brake his promise .so he had faith that jehovah is all powerfull that as soon as he killed his son ,jehovah would bring him back to life and that faith was rewarded. and by the way gods prophecies has surely not failed infact one by one they have been fullfilled its amazing if you actually study revalations and daniel …..remember that was the old testament(abraham) in the new testament god says not to sacrafice your children that includes letting them go to war but i bet you would be happy if your child chose to be in the military fighting for something that REALLY doesnt care about you isnt that the same thing as sacraficing your children

  219. on 20 Jul 2010 at 5:41 pm 219.truthteller7 said …

    with yet another valid point why dont you join me in eternal blissfull life id love to meet the family

  220. on 20 Jul 2010 at 8:58 pm 220.ihaveseenthelight said …

    truthteller7

    I really know what you mean. The Old Testament of Abraham is SO not the New Testament at all. That was for THEN, this is for NOW.

    So while the two are INEXTRICABLY linked, it just shows how MERCIFUL God became by SACRIFICING His only Son.

  221. on 20 Jul 2010 at 10:05 pm 221.truthteller7 said …

    God was always merciful in the bible the attribute it says god has is that he can not lie,he who doent know love doesn’t know god because he is love,and most of all he does not change people need to take responsibility for their actions and realise it is satan who influences bad things not god.and thank you its nice to read words from a christian brave enough to come to this athiest site.oh and fellows my computer got a virus when I tried to see anything on google involving obamas deception so I’m now using my blackberry I told you the government is pure evil trust me you need jehovah for what’s about to happen

  222. on 20 Jul 2010 at 11:33 pm 222.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “God was always merciful in the bible”

    Like when he flooded the earth and killed every baby, pregnant woman, and person who was unaware of his demands (think Eskimoos, South Americans, Asians, Africans, Australians, etc). All killed. I call that genocide. And you say it’s merciful. Huh? I must look up my dictionary definitions.

    “why dont you join me in eternal blissfull life id love to meet the family”

    I will take a pass on that. Somehow we manage just fine without invisible means of support.

  223. on 21 Jul 2010 at 1:13 am 223.truthteller7 said …

    First of all people were not in those parts of the world at that time and god gave everyone notice 50 years of notice just like he’s given you

  224. on 21 Jul 2010 at 1:43 am 224.MrQ said …

    @tt7
    “First of all people were not in those parts of the world at that time”

    See, there you go… not thinking again. Try honing your critical thinking and analyzing. Do some real research and you might discover the truth…be a truthseeker before you call yourself a truthteller. Alex Jones does not count as a reliable source…the man is an entertainer feeding into the nutty conspiracy theorists biases.

    50 years of notice? Nobody called, nobody told me. Shit, how much time we got left? And then what? You said he’s given ME 50 years or do you mean us ALL? Crap, I hope it’s not just me!!!!

  225. on 21 Jul 2010 at 1:57 am 225.A real-ist said …

    nontruthteller has failed in grammar (please write in sentences and not one long run on sentence), science, and history. You never did tell me your education level. Did you graduate high school and if so was it just barely? And you are trying to give us history lessons on what a book written a long time ago says? You ever watch the movie called “The Invention of Lying” that just came out not too long ago? It gives a great example on how religions were formed based on a lie and everyone thought they were real because it comforted them. One character decided to just drink his life away because he thought he would then die quicker and go to the place in the sky for eternity living in his own mansion. Kind of sounds like you, nontruthteller. You would rather have your son and yourself die as early as possible so you can get to heaven quicker. But what about all other animals on the planet? Why don’t they get to go to your heaven? They have skin, bones, blood, organs, a brain, etc just like you and I. What makes us so special and them not? You do realize that we are animals as well, it is just that we developed our brain better through evolution and became the smartest of the animals. This does not mean we have a soul and get eternal life in heaven after we die. In fact, when we die we turn to nothing just like all other living things. Our chemical reactions that make us live stop. Another way to look at it is using the example when we sleep. We fall asleep and when we wake up time seemed to fly by so fast. That is because the part of the brain that gives us consciousness isn’t active at the time. In a way it resembles what happens to that part of the brain when we die. Our conscious state doesn’t exist anymore, just like it didn’t exist before we were born. Another thing I want to mention is that you agree that all other religions are made up, but yours is correct? How can you not think your religion isn’t made up as well as those? The idea of God(s) was invented to ease people’s minds and give them hope. It was also used as power to rule over people. It also has been a gap to things we don’t understand. Take rainbows for exmaple. You claim God formed rainbows. As mentioned before, rainbows come from sun rays colliding with rain drops. You mean to tell me that before God created the rainbows that when sun rays hit rain drops that a prism didn’t happen? And look at the Gods of other religions. Sun god, god of thunder, etc. We now understand what the sun is and where thunder comes from, that is why those gods don’t exist anymore. Are you starting to get the idea? So all I have to say is that I think it would be best to try to live as long as you can and enjoy the little things, because it is the only time we have.

  226. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:11 am 226.truthteller7 said …

    You also have to see that everyone has an opinion on whats right and wrong and often people allow bad experiences to corrupt their opinions so no matter what they think there really is facts on what’s right and what’s wrong but if there was no god and everyone were athiests then the world would be the same and people would let greed conquer them and end up with everyone dead really think about it ….if god didn’t exsist then don’t you think eventually man will destroy themselves or the planet

  227. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:26 am 227.A real-ist said …

    Aren’t we alrady destroying our planet? Most wars are religous wars and most people don’t care about polluting our planet. They think it is God’s will. I think if we all were atheists most of us would understand that living as long as possible is the ultimate goal, and if it means not killing your neighbors so that they don’t kill you, then we would have a better society because of it.

  228. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:28 am 228.truthteller7 said …

    The bible says you are concious of nothing when you die so I know I’m not goin to heaven only 144000 so if you are going to talk crap about my religion atleast know my beliefs and I didn’t say you were warned for 50 years the people in noahs days were warned for 50 years and evolution is a religion that needs more faith to believe in then real religion you fool plus you should watch the 2 hour movie obamas deception b4 u judge it just because you hate me

  229. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:34 am 229.A real-ist said …

    The bible also says that light was created before the sun. Think about that one.

  230. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:44 am 230.A real-ist said …

    According to Scripture, God “created the heaven and the earth” on Day One of Creation Week (Genesis 1:1). Initially all was dark, until God said, “Let there be light” (v. 3). Days Two and Three saw the oceans, firmament (or atmosphere), continents, and plants formed, as the earth was being progressively prepared for man’s habitation. It was on Day Four that God created the sun, moon, and stars.

    Isn’t it kind of hard to have light and plants before the sun was created?

  231. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:52 am 231.A real-ist said …

    “evolution is a religion that needs more faith to believe in then real religion”

    Really? Faith means believing in something where there is no actual proof. I think fossil records prove evolution. Where is the real proof of a God?

  232. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:55 am 232.A real-ist said …

    “The bible says you are concious of nothing when you die”

    So you agree that souls don’t exist then.

  233. on 21 Jul 2010 at 2:59 am 233.truthteller7 said …

    Ahahahahahahahahahah the light he created was the sun that’s how it became light the night a first day ahahahahahahahah it seems you boys haven’t read past genesis that all your questions haven’t gotten past pg 30 ahahahahahahahahahahahahah I love you guys you make me laugh

  234. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:04 am 234.A real-ist said …

    Day One: Initially all was dark, until God said, “Let there be light”

    Day Four: God created the sun, moon, and stars.

    nontruthteller says, “the light he created was the sun that’s how it became light the night a first day”

    But if the light he created was the sun, then how did he create light on day one and then the sun on day four? Do you not understand this?

  235. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:19 am 235.A real-ist said …

    By the way, nontruthteller, just to give you a little background on me, I grew up as a Christian until after my first few years of college. That is when I woke up and realized everything I had drilled into me was all fake. I used what I learned in science and history to determine this. That is why it is important to get a good education, so that way you can use real facts to help you learn to think for yourself. Getting brainwashed into believing something is true without letting yourself question it isn’t a good way to go about it. Education helps determine the difference between what is made up and what is reality. That is why the majority of religious people are uneducated and the majority of non-relgious people are educated.

  236. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:32 am 236.truthteller7 said …

    The soul is not something that lives when you die the soul in true christian belief is your life that is the soul and the real bible does not say it that way reread it and evolution is a long story but on this small phone I don’t want to explain it but I will there are two forms of evolution microevolution and macroevolution .now macroevolution is when over billions of years one species can change slowly into another species such as ape into humans charles darwin who was the inventor of this unproved theory he had done an experiment with some different types of finch birds he mated the birds and when all but one kind had lived and all the others died he thought he created the theory of evolution so then in present times scientists realized that the birds that lived only lived during a certain season and on other seasons other kinds would live so they saw he jumped to a conclusion the famous scientist name lonning had stated many scientist would rather take the ideas of unproven science then accept the idea of a creator sooo scientists today have spent billions of money on trying to prove this theory on a specific project I can’t remember the name but anyway they mated different animals in different areas and weather but the animals were never as good as the originals and have all died so if you believe in evolution you will have to dissregard the failed experiment of its creator darwin and believe these men conducted their exams unbiaslly and the fact that all the money and years they spent and can’t replicate evolution but there’s way more….this stuff is better then what I have just said

  237. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:36 am 237.truthteller7 said …

    The first step of being a man is being humble 7182574165 I don’t like texting this stuff on my phone I. Have a virus on my computer my name is jacet

  238. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:41 am 238.A real-ist said …

    The example you gave studied one generation’s offspring. You do realize that evolution happens over many, many generations and not overnight. And evolution doesn’t just involve mating of different species.

  239. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:43 am 239.A real-ist said …

    The soul has often been deemed integral or essential to consciousness and personality, and may be synonymous with spirit, mind or self.

  240. on 21 Jul 2010 at 3:49 am 240.truthteller7 said …

    Remember my christian religion is pure so you might not be reading well because my bible says man was created the sixth day and on the fourth it explains the luminaries that he put up to separate day and night and prove as signs for seasons days and years and etc

  241. on 21 Jul 2010 at 4:00 am 241.A real-ist said …

    Again:

    Day One: Initially all was dark, until God said, “Let there be light”

    Day Four: God created the sun, moon, and stars.

    nontruthteller says, “my bible says man was created the sixth day and on the fourth it explains the luminaries that he put up to separate day and night and prove as signs for seasons days and years and etc”

    You repeated what I said on the fourth day and you mentioned the sixth day, but what I am referring to is the first day compared to the fourth day.

  242. on 21 Jul 2010 at 4:03 am 242.truthteller7 said …

    Its not for conciousness its just your life and that includes the life that jesus has provided with his sacrafice in other wordS the only reason why people associate the soul with morals is because if you do not serve god you give your life(soul) for material things or for sex that god will come and say to you(metaphor)that you gave the chance at life in paradise for fleshly deSires and the schemes of the devil but you should ask a jehovahs witness elder to explain it better if you don’t get it

  243. on 21 Jul 2010 at 4:13 am 243.truthteller7 said …

    To your comment about evolution taking time we know that but charles darwin who created the theory didn’t even conduct a proper experiment because he was biased and had something to prove there are more flaws with evolution bigger ones but I’ll have to charge my phone and sleep cus I’m in newyork and its 12 12 here night night

  244. on 21 Jul 2010 at 5:02 am 244.truthteller7 said …

    I see I’m am not getting anywhere with you now just because you feel as if the stories you have heard of and have not read is crazy doesn’t make it so and just because you can’t understand how it did happen doesn’t mean he never exsisted so I hope you haven’t just thrown everything aside and try to learn but whatever I tried

  245. on 21 Jul 2010 at 6:54 pm 245.i belive in god said …

    when u try to reach the truth about Great god dont ever use the bible cause u will find loooooooooots of obists u have to use the correct book the holy q,oraan if u used the bible any one dont belive in god will make u so shy and dont find a word to answer but if u used the holy q,oraan u will find the correct answear about why god made us and why there is poor and ricth ppl and what will happen for us when we dided and all of this with very very intellgent reasons and proves . thanks god for everything i have in my life

  246. on 21 Jul 2010 at 9:29 pm 246.Marcus said …

    @ i believe in god & truthteller7

    So, which one of you delusional lunatics represents the real, the one and only god?

    Please submit your answers of 90 words or less and our panel of enlightened atheists will judge you on style, presentation and content.

    (All we need now is a contribution from some orthodox jews and here comes World War 3, baby!)

  247. on 21 Jul 2010 at 9:40 pm 247.Merlin said …

    “Please submit your answers of 90 words or less and our panel of enlightened atheists will judge you on style, presentation and content.”

    Mark

    Still alive? LOL, you present your evidence for no God in 500 words or less and have it submitted by 8AM tomorrow morning.

    Second, I checked with Habitat for Humanity and you still have not sent in your check. You also have failed to provided the public acknowledgment for God’s existence.

    Last,your logic paradigm has still not submitted to support your position. Hop to it.

  248. on 21 Jul 2010 at 11:21 pm 248.Marcus said …

    Merlin

    Yes, sorry to disappoint, but I am indeed still alive. Who would have thought it?! I mean, surely god – someone’s god – would have done for me by now.

    “KER-BOOM! Have that, you atheist scumbag!”

    But no. I’m actually still waiting for that old bolt of lightning to blast me into hell.

    By the way, the challenge still stands – just let me know when you want the countdown to begin. Or don’t you have the balls to put it to the test? Surely, surely you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by giving it a go. I mean, why would you NOT want to prove that your god is still more powerful than his enemies (and fuck knows, he apparently wiped out a load of those back in the day!). However, I completely appreciate that you will disregard this point in your next post and pretend it never existed.

    But hey, let’s face it, don’t be embarrassed – really, why would you carry on believing your god is all powerful? He hasn’t had much of a presence for the past couple of millennia, has he. As in complete radio silence. (Strange that. You would have thought he’d be making the odd appearance now we have mass media and the such.) So perhaps he’s having a little nap. Or maybe he just went and died in a room that no one ever visits anymore. Or could it be that like santa clause and the tooth fairy, he really never existed at all.

    My money’s on the latter. So’s my life if you’ve got the courage of your convictions to put it to the test. But yet again you won’t. Because you know I will win.

  249. on 21 Jul 2010 at 11:37 pm 249.Merlin said …

    I took your challenge Mark. You seem to have problems with logic and how your High school stunts fails the test. Do not atheist corner the market on science? Stunts do not disprove a thing other than your intelligence. But you can still prove me wrong. Present your logical paradigm. It is that simple and then I will succumb to your wisdom.

    Maybe that is too big a word for you?

  250. on 22 Jul 2010 at 12:18 pm 250.Anonymous said …

    Merlin wrote:

    “Please submit your answers of 90 words or less and our panel of enlightened atheists will judge you on style, presentation and content.”
    Mark
    Still alive? LOL, you present your evidence for no God in 500 words or less and have it submitted by 8AM tomorrow morning.

    I’ll field this one if Martin doesn’t mind. The evidence we have for “no God” is the same evidence YOU have for no Quetzlcoatl, Loch Ness Monster, horoscopes and reincarnated Elvis! That is to say — there is no evidence for any of them, that’s why it’s obvious they don’t exist.

    It’s funny, because I’m sure you agree with us that all these fairy tales for grownups are stupid ideas. You are an atheist in regard to Quetzlcoatl and Ra. But you refuse to go one further and say the same about another equally silly fairy tale, because it’s the one that was drummed into your head as real as a small child.

    Was that less than 500 words? I think so.

  251. on 22 Jul 2010 at 12:36 pm 251.3D said …

    Sorry, Anonymous 250 was me.

  252. on 22 Jul 2010 at 1:46 pm 252.Merlin said …

    3D

    You should have renamed anonymous. It would have been less embarrassing. You, like Mark, only offer up fallacies and logical paradigms that do not exist. Then you proceed to the “small child” digression (you have zero knowledge)which has absolutely no bearing on the existence of God.

    If Ra does not exist then a God does not exist is not a logical conclusion. C’mon, you can do better…yes? It’s funny, because I am sure you recognize the elementary fault in the logic here. I’m sure you also recognize the obvious answer.

  253. on 22 Jul 2010 at 3:59 pm 253.MrQ said …

    “you recognize the elementary fault in the logic here. I’m sure you also recognize the obvious answer.”

    And that would be that Merl has decided to “appeal to fantasy” to prop up an invisible, all powerful, all-loving, all-seeing sky daddy -the xtian god of the bible. Rejecting the obvious only real and true omnimax entity, FSM.
    May his noodly appendage smack you upside your stupid head.

  254. on 22 Jul 2010 at 5:10 pm 254.charles said …

    the bible is just a bunch of stories about events that never happened and people who never existed.

  255. on 22 Jul 2010 at 7:28 pm 255.Marcus said …

    You see, Merlin, the trouble with you and people like you is you have nothing to offer. You are incapable of debate or trying to establish a point of view. You can’t engage in anything that even remotely resembles an adult discussion. You are programmed to deflect and spoil. No more. And let’s face it, that is precisely why you are here. You haven’t got anything of your own to say, no original thought or point of view. You are spoilers, time wasters and peddlers of obfuscation (go look it up, son).

    So when I ask a simple question, you can’t give a yes or no answer, all you can do is reply with yet another pathetic deflection, ie:

    “You seem to have problems with logic and how your High school stunts fails the test. Do not atheist corner the market on science? Stunts do not disprove a thing other than your intelligence. But you can still prove me wrong. Present your logical paradigm. It is that simple and then I will succumb to your wisdom.”

    And by the way, what the feck does “Do not atheist corner the market on science?” mean?

    Like everything you stand for, my friend, it is complete nonsense.

  256. on 22 Jul 2010 at 7:50 pm 256.charles said …

    the notion of god is the biggest load of nonsense ever concocted.

  257. on 22 Jul 2010 at 8:01 pm 257.Marcus said …

    @ charles

    I know it’s hard to think of anything more nonsensical than merlin, but you are right – god would just about take the biscuit.

  258. on 22 Jul 2010 at 8:07 pm 258.Marcus said …

    Having said that, I’m now wondering if truthteller7 might just edge it on a sheer insane/hysterical/I-need-psychiatric-help level.

    What do you reckon?

  259. on 22 Jul 2010 at 11:08 pm 259.Merlin said …

    “You haven’t got anything of your own to say, no original thought or point of view.”

    You mean something like “God didn’t kill me so he aien’t real”. No, you are correct I have nothing that classic.

    Again, simply provide you logical paradigm and I have promised to proclaim you the winner. I keep my promises. Stop the digression and the insults. Put up or just shut up. If we xitians are so irrational it should be a simple task.

    I look forward to your victory.

    Oh, and atheist corner the market due to the fact your priest (Pastor Dawkins) claims Christians cannot be real scientist in his disposition on Dr Francis Collins. Sorry Mark, thought you had been informed.

  260. on 23 Jul 2010 at 12:27 am 260.Horatio said …

    Merlin

    You mistake is assuming Marcus has any clue about paradigms or logic.

    They cannot even deal with the question of God but rather they bypass and delve into which God. Changing the subject is the only argument.

  261. on 23 Jul 2010 at 1:32 am 261.A real-ist said …

    Nothing can exist outside existence, so God cannot exist outside existence. If you think God exists inside existence and you think existence isn’t infinite, then God isn’t infinite and he couldn’t have created himself. Either way you look at it, a God couldn’t have created the universe and doesn’t exist.

  262. on 23 Jul 2010 at 2:26 am 262.3D said …

    252.Merlin said …

    3D
    You should have renamed [sic] anonymous. It would have been less embarrassing. You, like Mark, only offer up fallacies and logical paradigms that do not exist. Then you proceed to the “small child” digression (you have zero knowledge)which has absolutely no bearing on the existence of God.
    If Ra does not exist then a God does not exist is not a logical conclusion. C’mon, you can do better…yes?

    Of course I can do better. In fact I did do better, in my actual comment, which you misread, misunderstood, and then mangled in your attempt to interpret it.

    I do not know if Ra exists. Ra might exist, just like God might, just like Zeus might exist. We can’t prove they don’t, because we can’t prove a negative. But there is no evidence for any of them.

    Just like me, you go down the list disbelieving in all those gods, because there’s no evidence. And you are right! But the difference between you and me is that you skip over crossing off one of those gods, and you believe in him because you’re in a cult and that’s what they told you to think.

  263. on 23 Jul 2010 at 5:28 am 263.Severin said …

    252 Merlin
    ” You, like Mark, only offer up fallacies and logical paradigms that do not exist.”

    Maybe, but when we come to something YOU have to say, you are silent.

    You only know to babble. You have no fear to offer fallacies and logical paradigms, because your claims are illogical babbling.

    To remind others: YOU claimed that only people accepting Christ are not going to hell.
    (Do no
    t deny, I have it stored!).

    I want to avoid hell, but muslims told me that I can NOT avoid hell if I am a christian, and I have chances to avoid it if I am a muslim.

    Question for you, you never answered: Why to accept Christ, why not Allah?

    Very simple question, but you ARE NOT ABLE TO OFFER AN ANSWER.
    Because there is no answer, of course, but you are not ready to admit it.
    Because christianity = isam = blievnig in Ra.

    Will yo be silent for some time again, hoping we will forget your incapability to give explanations of your own claims?

  264. on 23 Jul 2010 at 12:01 pm 264.Merlin said …

    “you skip over crossing off one of those gods, and you believe in him because you’re in a cult and that’s what they told you to think.”

    I did? I am in a cult? Which one? Also, who is this “They” that told me how to think and what to believe?

    So you are actually agnostic not atheist is would seem?

  265. on 23 Jul 2010 at 1:15 pm 265.Horatio said …

    Another strike against Marcus. 3D now admits God might exist. Marcus cannot even convince his own adherents.

  266. on 23 Jul 2010 at 4:26 pm 266.3D said …

    264.Merlin said …

    “you skip over crossing off one of those gods, and you believe in him because you’re in a cult and that’s what they told you to think.”
    I did? I am in a cult? Which one?

    Christianity.

    Also, who is this “They” that told me how to think and what to believe?

    Whoever told you about Jesus, the magical man who you think created the universe. You weren’t born with that info in your head, were you? Were your first words as a baby “Jesus Christ”?

    So you are actually agnostic not atheist is would seem?

    No, I am an agnostic atheist. They are not mutually exclusive although this is a common misconception, even among atheists.

    I believe that you can never prove there’s no God (agnostic). But based on the overwhelming evidence, I believe there is no God (atheist).

    Also, you are an atheist when it comes to Zeus, Ra, Kronos, Quetzlcoatl, etc. You come to the same conclusion as I do about all those gods (they don’t exist). Correct?

  267. on 23 Jul 2010 at 8:24 pm 267.Merlin said …

    “Whoever told you about Jesus, the magical man who you think created the universe.”

    Oh, you mean my own personal study of philosophy, theology and science? Well, yes you may have me there. I believe in God who created all. Who filled your head with agnosticism- Richard?

    “I believe that you can never prove there’s no God (agnostic). But based on the overwhelming evidence, I believe there is no God (atheist).”

    Oh please don’t leave me hanging. Share all the “overwhelming” evidence. I’m afraid this is just another disappointing Mark-like stunt but I’ll listen to anything.

    Horatio,

    Yes although they often claim there is NO God, when pushed they must admit they don’t know. Then like Mark, they never live up to their bets.

  268. on 23 Jul 2010 at 9:23 pm 268.Marcus said …

    Oh. Hello, Horatio. Decided it’s safe to come back now, huh?

    3D says he has no idea if a god exists – your god, Zeus, Juno, Ra, any kind of god. And I respect that point of view. However, you don’t. You insist that YOUR god is an absolute certainty. That he/she/it is, without question, out there somewhere.

    So, here we go yet again. YOUR ASSERTION, YOU PROVE IT!

    To wit, if you can get your head around this concept, unlike you. us non-believers don’t actually have a belief system that we are trying to foist onto other people. We just don’t believe what YOU people are saying. We challenge YOU to show US that what you believe is actually true. And you know what, if you could actually do it I’d be the first to admit I was wrong. But you can’t, can you.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that you and your posse will completely ignore what is in reality a very simple request to prove your proposition. There will be no evidence, will there. What there will be is a demand that I prove it is not so. There will be tiresome requests that I disprove what you say you can prove. It, like you, is futile.

    But you know what, you can keep playing word games for ever. You can keep at the semantics until the cows come home. But until you come up with anything that even resembles proof for the supposition you hold so dear, I’ll just keep on thinking the same thing: you are brainwashed, you are brain dead and you have no desire whatsoever to know the truth.

    So, come on. Show me just one shred of evidence that might me change my mind. As the saying goes, put up or shut up.

  269. on 23 Jul 2010 at 10:33 pm 269.3D said …

    267.Merlin said …

    “Whoever told you about Jesus, the magical man who you think created the universe.”
    Oh, you mean my own personal study of philosophy, theology and science? Well, yes you may have me there.

    Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. Some cultist weirdos made up a very inconsistent, plagiarized and transparent Jesus, 20 centuries ago, and you read about it, and despite the fact that it makes no sense, you swallowed it up.

    But thanks for clarifying and expanding on my comment!

    I believe in God who created all. Who filled your head with agnosticism- Richard?

    I assume you mean Richard Dawkins.

    No, I agree with him on some things and disagree with him on others. He’s not forcing me to read his books every Sunday, and parents don’t forcefeed his stuff into their kids heads and disown them if they disagree with it. And I don’t know of any instance where Richard Dawkins had anyone burned at the stake for not agreeing with The God Delusion.

    Christians, on the other hand…

    “I believe that you can never prove there’s no God (agnostic). But based on the overwhelming evidence, I believe there is no God (atheist).”
    Oh please don’t leave me hanging. Share all the “overwhelming” evidence.

    Sure. You can start by reading this website and watching the accompanying videos:
    http://www.godisimaginary.com

    I’d love to hear your review when you’re done! If you have any questions about them, feel free to ask here.

    Yes although they often claim there is NO God, when pushed they must admit they don’t know. Then like Mark, they never live up to their bets.

    I don’t “claim” there is no God. That would be an assertion of absolute proof. I believe there is no God, based on the lack of evidence that God exists, and the plethora of evidence. If new evidence comes, like if Jesus rides out of the sky with a tattoo on his testicles, like the Bible says he will, I will reassess the case.

    You sure aren’t providing any proof God exists, but you’re happy to apply that standard of proof when someone believes that God doesn’t exist. That’s because you’re not interested in logic, just mental masturbation, cherry-picking situations that affirm your preconceived world view and rejecting the rest.

    It’s like people who argue about Noah’s flood being real. They’re interested in scientific evidence that supports a Great Flood, but reject the massive amounts of evidence against it. Same with global warming deniers, same with Jesus’s existence.

    Science doesn’t matter to religious nuts, until they find a scrap of something in science that they think confirms their delusions, or until they find something science hasn’t figured out about the universe and has no answer for. Then they morph into Stephen Hawking, applying the logic and scientific method that bothers them like a buzzing gnat, 99.9% of the time. Meanwhile, they ride to work in cars

    It’s a tired act and you look like an idiot when you try to pull it off.

  270. on 24 Jul 2010 at 12:41 am 270.truthteller7 said …

    I’m insane screw you Marcus lol

  271. on 24 Jul 2010 at 6:16 am 271.Severin said …

    266 3D
    “Were your first words as a baby “Jesus Christ”?”

    Maybe his first (or second) words were “Jesus Christ”, it is quite possible.
    What such people don’t want to admit ever, is that their first (or second) words, if they were borne in Teheran, would be „Allah uekbar“.

    They would be enemies of Christ, and I doubt Christ himself would ever find his way to their minds to turn them to the “right” god, in such a case.

    With their closed and disturbed minds, they would all be Allah’s warriors today!
    Remember their glorious question about “why is killing immoral”?

  272. on 24 Jul 2010 at 6:38 am 272.Severin said …

    276 Merlin
    “Oh, you mean my own personal study of philosophy, theology and science?“

    And with all your education you are not able to support your own claims?

    What an university gives diplomas to such ignorants?

    You ARE an ignorant!
    In your place I would NEVER boast with my education level if I would not be able to support my own claims.

  273. on 24 Jul 2010 at 6:48 am 273.Severin said …

    276 Merlin
    Of course, there were situations I could not support my claims.
    In such cases i honestly admited: I do not know (but I will learn!).

    A professor of mine (organic chemistry) discussed with me once (45 years ago) and when he asked me why I was doing something, my answer was: it is my principle!

    Dear collegue, he said, “principles” are for horses, not for humans!
    Horses have llimited abitity to LEARN. People MUST change their “principles” according to accumulating their knowledges, he said. Otherwise we would still defend the “principle” that the earth is a plate.

  274. on 24 Jul 2010 at 5:47 pm 274.Merlin said …

    “Some cultist weirdos made up a very inconsistent, plagiarized and transparent Jesus, 20 centuries ago”

    Really? That is what I did? So you will be proving this assertion of course or just spitting out the some old nonsense as other blogs with no proof? I expected better.

    “Sure. You can start by reading this website and watching the accompanying http://www.godisimaginary.com

    Yawn! Read it been there no proof only speculation, bad theology, atheist spin with absolutely zero proof. You obviously have not read the sister site. I thought YOU would provide some real proof? C’mon I want to Not Believe.

    You brought out the old “burn them at the stake” bomb. The equivalent of the Hitler bomb! Another classic! For future reference, I have never burned anyone on the steak (yummy).

    Maybe you could use Mark’s claim, refuse to provide a logical paradigm and call it proof. LOL!

    Mark,

    You came back! I though embarrassment would keep you away. Still no paradigm for your, um, er ah logic!

  275. on 24 Jul 2010 at 7:35 pm 275.Marcus said …

    truthteller

    Insane, hysterical, deluded, gullible, lost, sad, pathetic… the list of adjectives could on for ever. Just take your pick.

  276. on 24 Jul 2010 at 7:52 pm 276.Marcus said …

    Oh, and merlin – I find it comical that you should once again be asking people to prove that your imaginary friend doesn’t exist when you can offer up none of the same for his/her/its existence. What you are doing is called deflection. And it’s pathetic.

    If you had anything other than blind faith to substantiate the claims you and your fellow believers make I have a feeling you might have shown it to us by now. After all, you have had 2000 years to get your act together. But hey, we’re still waiting. And you are still avoiding giving any answers.

  277. on 24 Jul 2010 at 9:35 pm 277.Horatio said …

    “What you are doing is called deflection. And it’s pathetic.”

    Not rally pathetic, it is desperate. It is otherwise known as changing the subject. Now we point you back to waaayyyy back to your original claim that God does not exist since He did not kill you.

    Answer Merlin’s question regarding the logic of your conclusion. Don’t deflect. I can’t speak for Merlin but I have not been here any where near 2000 years.

  278. on 25 Jul 2010 at 7:05 pm 278.a said …

    If I didn’t kill my dog today does that mean I don’t exist?

  279. on 26 Jul 2010 at 4:14 am 279.truthteller7 said …

    Marcus: I have love for all humanity but in your deluded world if someone says that they love you their crazy(so I guess your wife is crazy too).now you guys are supposed to be the poster boys for logical thinking so please direct you critical thinking to these two questions 1.if everyone in the world was atheist and what’s right and wrong was based on everyone’s own probably biased opinion would the world be better,worse,or the same? 2.its also obvious that you guys believe in evolution (despite the evidence that has conclude it as unproven sudoscience )so using your logic evolution says that in the beginning a living cell came from space or the ocean(despite the fact that we know living cells come from living organisms not the ocean or space)and evolved into all living specimens on earth…so here’s the question if you choose to believe this despite logic then who or what or how was the water,space,earth created???

  280. on 26 Jul 2010 at 4:55 am 280.A real-ist said …

    Being kind does not make one not crazy in the mind. Those are unrelated.

    Who created God besides human wishful thinking? You think someone must have creating living things by waving their magic wand and then poof, they appeared. Wouldn’t God have to be created at some point as well? How can God create existence if he exists in existence? Think about that one.

  281. on 26 Jul 2010 at 6:07 am 281.truthteller7 said …

    I will think about it after you guys stop to explain your beliefs first. Tell me how would the world be if everyone were atheists and how can evolution be possible if it requires a living cell to form from non living organisms and third if evolution did occur then who created the earth and space I will not allow you to avoid these questions and aPparently being caring means I’m crazy to marcus

  282. on 26 Jul 2010 at 6:13 am 282.truthteller7 said …

    First off to marcus I’m crazy for standing firm in what I believe in and being loving but back to the issue I want you athirests to answer this questions how was the earth and space created if you believe in evolution and if everyone were athiests would the world be better or worse. I won’t allow you guys to avoid this question especially not by distracting me with more of your questions. Its time to answer mines

  283. on 26 Jul 2010 at 6:25 pm 283.Merlin said …

    A,

    I didn’t kill my dog today either and I promise I am very much real.

    Marcus simply bit off more than he can chew and now he is trying to spit it out. Deflection just won’t do it Marcus. You have failed to prove God does not exist, godisimiginary does not offer any proof 3D(it is a bit comical)and it would be best just to admit your failure.

    I don’t think either of you can do what the best and brightest have failed to do for thousands of years. The again wasn’t BHO proclaimed to be the anointed one?

  284. on 26 Jul 2010 at 6:32 pm 284.Merlin said …

    “He’s not forcing me to read his books every Sunday, and parents don’t forcefeed his stuff into their kids heads and disown them if they disagree with it.”

    Anybody here been forced to read some pastors book or even the Bible? Don’t the RC priests require you NOT to read the Bible? I think 3D is screwy here since it has never happened to me.

    Anyone here have a parent who forced them to get an education, eat vegetables and take nasty tasting medicine? Yep, Mom was great! 3D, you are a constant mess my boy.

  285. on 26 Jul 2010 at 9:11 pm 285.3D said …

    284.Merlin said …

    Anyone here have a parent who forced them to get an education, eat vegetables and take nasty tasting medicine? Yep, Mom was great!

    Most good parents explain that vegetables were important for nutrition, and that you need to go to school to learn, and that the nasty tasting medicine helps you get over being sick. They don’t “force” the vegetables down your throat.

    (Sorry to hear that you went through that though. Did she use a funnel?)

  286. on 26 Jul 2010 at 9:48 pm 286.truthteller7 said …

    So you cowards continue to challenge people and ask them questions about their faith but cannot answer two simple questions MARCUS you are a coward and you need to step up and support yOur athiestic beliefs

  287. on 26 Jul 2010 at 9:54 pm 287.Anonymous said …

    What the hell?
    If you guys want to debate sign up at the forums and ask a mod for a debate room.
    It is pointless to argue here.

  288. on 26 Jul 2010 at 10:29 pm 288.truthteller7 said …

    Like I said cowards in fact your worse then cowards you guys are uninformed however haughty cowards

  289. on 27 Jul 2010 at 1:26 am 289.Anonymous said …

    There is proof for every “truth” you guys say. And if there doesn’t seem to be, that’s what we call FAITH. Get over yourselves. What are you trying to prove, anyway? What do you actually gain by putting people down?

  290. on 27 Jul 2010 at 1:30 am 290.Anonymous said …

    THANK YOU MERLIN! I AGREE WITH YOU 100%!

  291. on 27 Jul 2010 at 11:24 am 291.Merlin said …

    “Sorry to hear that you went through that though. Did she use a funnel?)”

    Yup, she forced me against my will many a time when I was being the belligerent child. Even when I refused to open my mouth! What a wonderful woman. I’m sorry you never had the experience of a parent who cared enough.

    You are welcome A. Too many pansies being raised today.

  292. on 27 Jul 2010 at 2:16 pm 292.Rayn said …

    Hey truthteller7, Which two questions are you referring to?
    I’ll step in an answer them for you.

  293. on 27 Jul 2010 at 4:24 pm 293.truthteller7 said …

    1.If the everyone in the world were atheists would the world be better,worse,or the same. 2.since the theory of evolution says that a living cell popped out of space or the ocean (although science staits that living cells come from living organisms not the ocean or space but if you disregard this fact whatever )and this living cell then evolved into every living creature over billions of years. so here’s the question then if evolution took place then who created the ocean and space

  294. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:05 am 294.3D said …

    291.Merlin said …

    “Sorry to hear that you went through that though. Did she use a funnel?)”
    Yup, she forced me against my will many a time when I was being the belligerent child.

    Not much has changed in your personality since then!

    Any other theists here want to share stories about torture and force-feeding imposed on them by their fundamentalist parents?

    Even when I refused to open my mouth! What a wonderful woman.

    I’m sure she regrets forcing you to OPEN your mouth with all the horseshit that immediately began flowing out of it.

    Now it’s time to open up and accept the nasty medicine of reality! We don’t use funnels, just logic and reason.

  295. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:14 am 295.3D said …

    293.truthteller7 said …

    1.If the everyone in the world were atheists would the world be better,worse,or the same.

    Better.

    since the theory of evolution says that a living cell popped out of space or the ocean

    False. The theory of evolution doesn’t say anything about where the first living cell came from. Evolution is perfectly compatible with an intelligent designer or God who set it all in motion.

    Check back with your youth pastor for the latest updated propaganda please.

    (although science staits that living cells come from living organisms not the ocean or space but if you disregard this fact whatever )

    Religion states that the first living cell came from a magical man who took some clay out of the ground, molded into a man-shape, took a deep breath and blew some soul-snot into the clay-man’s nostril.

    So you’re not exactly in a good position to talk about goofy ideas that science has come up with. I think I’ll stick with the abiogenesis theory myself, over the “Human Play-Doh with Soul Boogers” story.

    and this living cell then evolved into every living creature over billions of years. so here’s the question then if evolution took place then who created the ocean and space

    Nobody. These questions are easy!

    Now here’s a follow-up question. If God created the oceans and the space, who created God? Super-God? God Sr.?

  296. on 28 Jul 2010 at 11:30 am 296.Merlin said …

    ?We don’t use funnels, just logic and reason.”

    I wish that were true but you have some work to do. Now add a little common sense then you have the makings of a wise young man. Well, drop claims you cannot support and silly calls for God to strike you down with a bolt of lightning!

    Oh, and the ad homeinem attacks show us one more attribute from you childhood.

    Anyone out there like to share any stories about parents from the school of Homer Simpson?

    3D, maybe you could just add stupid Flanders after every comment.

    Wise up Homer.

  297. on 28 Jul 2010 at 4:45 pm 297.Max said …

    “If the everyone in the world were atheists would the world be better,worse,or the same.
    Better.”

    Wrong, see China & USSR

    “False. The theory of evolution doesn’t say anything about where the first living cell came from.”

    False, science does, however, they are simply stumped and come up with all sorts of silliness.

    “I think I’ll stick with the abiogenesis theory myself”

    Well sure you will. You priests have spoken. Nobody expects you to think for yourself. I actually liked the lightning theory better, ha ha.

    “if evolution took place then who created the ocean and space” Nobody. These questions are easy!”

    They are easy when you don’t need to prove a single answer. Nobody huh? So you are a “self-creator theorist” or “Always existed theorist”?

    It is amazing what some people believe to avoid God.

  298. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:07 pm 298.Severin said …

    269 Merlin
    “Well, drop claims you cannot support …”

    Who is telling that!?

    It was YOU who claimed something unable to support what you said. Then you was silent for some time hoping we will forget it.

    We will not!
    Before requiring others to support their claims, try to learn how to support your own ones.

  299. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:17 pm 299.Severin said …

    297 Max
    “Wrong, see China & USSR”

    Why you suggest us to see Afganistan and Iran?
    There is absolutely no atheists!

    I remind you that neither China nor (ex!) USSR were atheistic countries before communism took power there!

    1917. in Russia and 1950. in China there were 0 % atheists! Who supported communist revolutions?
    100% RELIGIOUS PEOPLE.

    I also remind you that Hitler in Germany took power in free elections, after 100% christian nation had oportunity to listen to his speeches for more than a decade.

    Something VERY wrong with your examples!

  300. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:18 pm 300.Severin said …

    Severin 299
    “Why you suggest us to see Afganistan and Iran?”

    Correction: Why DON’T you suggest us to see Afganistan and Iran?

  301. on 28 Jul 2010 at 7:22 pm 301.Severin said …

    Max,

    Yor “ha ha” would have some sense if you told us who/what created god.

    As all believers, you all the time avoid to answer simple and clear questions.
    Why don’t you just try?

  302. on 29 Jul 2010 at 1:44 am 302.3D said …

    297.Max said …

    “If the everyone in the world were atheists would the world be better,worse,or the same.
    Better.”
    Wrong, see China & USSR

    See Severin’s comment for a thorough debunking of this stupid bullshit. http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/blog/?p=1537#comment-23211

    “False. The theory of evolution doesn’t say anything about where the first living cell came from.”
    False, science does,

    Science does. The theory of evolution does not. I know they teach you that all science is evil in your afterschool Bible study, but — you may want to hold onto something when I tell you this — different branches of science deal with different topics.

    So you are a “self-creator theorist” or “Always existed theorist”?

    Always existed. Same as you, except you shift the “always existed” thing back one generation onto a magical man who makes people out of his own snot.

    It is amazing what some people believe to avoid God.

    Yeah! Atheists believe in such silly things.

    So did God give Adam a magical hanky in case some of his soul-snot ran out his nose? And did he keep extra clay on hand in case Adam fell down and lost a tooth?

  303. on 29 Jul 2010 at 3:18 am 303.A real-ist said …

    Since we are on the topic of Adam and Eve, I would like to throw out a question. When God supposedly created Adam and then Eve from Adam’s rib, were they just giant babies? I mean, how did they know anything if they didn’t have the experiences to learn anything yet? This just shows that the first man didn’t appear from a “poof”. We evolved over time and learned as we went. Adam just didn’t appear and then go “holy shit, I am alive….what to do next? Hey, you creator, I need a woman to fuck.” God then said, “Sounds like a plan. This may hurt a bit, but I need a rib from you and then I need to wave my magic wand and turn it into a woman.” Then Eve appeared and wanted to eat an apple. A talking snake talked to her and she understood this talking snake (even though a snake has never spoken since). Get the picture? How did they know how to communicate without learning how to first?

  304. on 29 Jul 2010 at 3:35 pm 304.charles said …

    the bible is mythology. jesus never existed. the notion of god is nonsense.

  305. on 29 Jul 2010 at 4:12 pm 305.Rayn said …

    the bible is mythology. jesus never existed. the notion of god is nonsense.

    Actually a “Jesus” probably did exist. Most historians don’t accept the “Mythological Jesus”. Of course that doesn’t mean he actually preformed miracles, claimed divinity, etc.
    He was probably a apocalyptic teacher.

  306. on 29 Jul 2010 at 4:16 pm 306.Rayn said …

    ^ I meant “an apocalyptic teacher”

  307. on 29 Jul 2010 at 4:59 pm 307.truthteller7 said …

    If your gonna ask if adam and eve had to be babies first in order to learn then apply that question to the theory of evolution which staits that the ape evolved into an adult shaped human not a baby. Then you guys still failed to answer the questions who created the earth and the space if evolution did occur? And learn your fucking science because if you do research you will find many theories on how living creatures came to be and one of the biggest theories is that a living cell came and evolved on earth from space or water however science always fails on determining how the space came to be and if they can’t figure it out 100 percent your slow ass can’t figure it out when you can’t tell your ass from your head

  308. on 29 Jul 2010 at 6:38 pm 308.Severin said …

    307 Truthteller
    “And learn your fucking science…”

    Do you use a mobile phone?
    Do you go to see a doctor when sick?
    Have you been vaccinated ever?

    I see you ARE using computer.

    WHY do you use fruits of fucking science?

    And, yes, did your priests taught you such nice words?

  309. on 29 Jul 2010 at 7:06 pm 309.Rayn said …

    Evolution =/= Abiogenesis =/= Big Bang

    Scientists do not completely understand the beginning of the universe. We have been able to get very close to the beginning of the universe, but not to the very beginning. However, we have made progress, and scientists understand how the universe could have came from nothing.
    Here is a video by Lawrence Krauss.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

    Here is a lecture by Stephen Hawking.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjwXe-pXvM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSUsXYcQ5qA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzO5eSjgocA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhNX1wKFbB0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Kp0rQ23PY

    These videos will take about 2 hours or so to watch. I’m sure it will be worth it for you.

    The Big Bang explains how stars, galaxies, planets, etc. form. The Universe and the Earth weren’t created by anyone.

    Abiogenesis explains how life began on Earth, while Evolution explains the diversity and development of life on Earth.

    There is tons of evidence for evolution.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._coli_long-term_evolution_experiment
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils

    If there is anything you don’t understand or if you have any questions just ask.

  310. on 29 Jul 2010 at 7:08 pm 310.Rayn said …

    Also, even if science is not 100% sure how the Universe and Earth came to be, it doesn’t make it okay to say goddunit.

  311. on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:30 pm 311.truthteller7 said …

    First off your wrong I am using a mobile phone and second how is it ok to say that gods not 100 percent so he must not exist but when science is not 100 percent somehow it is still ok to believe it over god both theories take the same amount of faith don’t you think so why not be on the safe side and believe in god so that if he does exist (he does)then you will servive if he doesn’t (but he does)then you will not of lost anything

  312. on 29 Jul 2010 at 10:42 pm 312.truthteller7 said …

    And jehovahs witnesses do not have pastors only elders everyone else is considered a minister because we preach the good news of jehovahs kingdom and we don’t believe in having titles were one has more power then the other like other false christian religions so my potty mouth is something that I as an imperfect person need to work on and I have messed up and cursed a few times in the kingdom hall lol

  313. on 30 Jul 2010 at 12:52 am 313.A real-ist said …

    nontruthteller,

    “If your gonna ask if adam and eve had to be babies first in order to learn then apply that question to the theory of evolution which staits that the ape evolved into an adult shaped human not a baby.”

    Read what I said again. When God went poof and Adam and Eve formed, their minds had to be like a baby’s mind since they had no experiences yet. And going over what you just said about apes evolving into an adult shaped human and not a baby….huh? First of all, when apes gave birth the result was a baby, which over a long period of time that baby, which turns to an adult to have another baby eventually evolved into into humans in a certain line of species. According to what you wrote when apes had the baby, it looked like an adult human. Huh?

    And your question about where did everything come from…..well, it came from the same place your God was created. If you think God created everything, then who created God? You can’t answer that just like science is still trying to figure exactly what happened to form everything. Science has a pretty good idea of how things work, but not 100%. You, on the otherhand, have 0% on how God was created. So basically what I am saying is that your question of where everything came from is the same question of where did God come from. So ask yourself that question of where God came from and you will get the same answer as to where everything did actually come from without a God involved. One theory is that all matter and energy has always been around in some state. Right now we are in the expanding state from the Big Bang, but many years down the road our universe could either retract back to a single point again and then explode all over again and this keeps on happening in cycles. We could also be engulfed in a black hole and then there is a big explosion inside there that sets everything off again. So there are actual theories like that which could be proven some day, for example, with the particle collider. So please think outside the God box and you might see reality.

  314. on 30 Jul 2010 at 1:03 am 314.A real-ist said …

    …….and I forgot to mention your question about where did life (cells) come from. Certain elements combine in a certain way, chemical reactions happen, and then cell life forms evenvually came about during the right conditions. Cells then split and made copies. The better copies went on to create some better copies, and some not so good copies. The not so good copies that form don’t survive in what we call natural selection. The better copies thrive and evolve better each time to fit the environment. Get the idea of life and evolution now?

  315. on 30 Jul 2010 at 6:02 am 315.3D said …

    305.Rayn said …

    the bible is mythology. jesus never existed. the notion of god is nonsense.
    Actually a “Jesus” probably did exist.

    Most historians don’t accept the “Mythological Jesus”.

    “Most historians” is a specific claim that implies a concensus, which isn’t the case. It’s a hotly debated topic among historians.

    Of course a lot of those historians are biased because they’re Christians, and have a vested interest in “proving” that Jesus existed. If there was the same lack of evidence for Julius Caesar or Abraham Lincoln that there is for Jesus, no historian worth his salt would argue that they existed. But because it’s Jesus, some people jump through hoops trying to legitimize any scrap they can get their hands on.

    You believe that “a Jesus” existed, even though there is absolutely no evidence from his lifetime showing that he existed. Why?

  316. on 30 Jul 2010 at 12:29 pm 316.Rayn said …

    “Most historians” is a specific claim that implies a concensus, which isn’t the case. It’s a hotly debated topic among historians.

    It is true that historians debate about the Historical Jesus, but not about his existence.

    This sceptical way of thinking reached its culmination in the argument that Jesus as a human being never existed at all and is a myth…. But above all, if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned. Certainly, there are all those discrepancies between one Gospel and another. But we do not deny that an event ever took place just because some pagan historians such as, for example, Livy and Polybius, happen to have described it in differing terms…. To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has ‘again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.’ In recent years, ‘no serous scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus’ or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary.

    – Michael Grant, Jesus: An Historian’s Review of the Gospels (Scribner, 1995).

    He is an atheist historian, so I do not think that he is bias towards “a Jesus” existing. This is only one historian, but If you want me to prove the consensus that there is a historical Jesus I can. I don’t think this is the important issue, but if you wish to pursue it more we can.

    Now, In response to truthteller7.
    It is possible for the universe to come from nothing.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo
    Please watch the video, I’m sure you will learn a lot.
    If you still have questions just ask me.

  317. on 30 Jul 2010 at 12:32 pm 317.Rayn said …

    Here is Stephen Hawking explaining the Origin of the Universe
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjwXe-pXvM&feature=PlayList&p=74184384669CEADB&index=0&playnext=1

  318. on 30 Jul 2010 at 12:33 pm 318.Biff said …

    “Of course a lot of those historians are biased because they’re Christians, and have a vested interest in “proving” that Jesus existed

    Most atheist are biased against God and attempt to explain away God with “we don’t know how it happened but we will”. Everyone is biased Einstein, even you so stop all ready.

  319. on 30 Jul 2010 at 12:46 pm 319.Max said …

    #302 from 3D

    Please review this post, it is hilarious. 3D uses a post from Severin to support his claim. Severin is 3Ds source of authority

    The only problem is this:
    From Severin-

    “1917. in Russia and 1950. in China there were 0 % atheists! Who supported communist revolutions?”

    How do you like this historical documentation. Not only did it miss the original point like Severin swinging at a Billy Wagner fastball, it is ridiculous. I actually did take Russian History in College and I never learned this fact! I am now attempting to contact my old professor.

    3D, the rest of your post is as ridiculous. When atheist fail to acknowledge the short comings of their fellow believers, they lose all credibility as you now have.

    Its like an old “Animal House” scene.

  320. on 30 Jul 2010 at 4:05 pm 320.3D said …

    315.Rayn said …

    This sceptical way of thinking reached its culmination in the argument that Jesus as a human being never existed at all and is a myth…. But above all, if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material….

    Pause button. There’s your problem.

    The New Testament is not “historical material”. It contains tons of non-historical material, i.e., things that don’t match up with historical events of the time that we know from actual meticulously documented recordings of events. It even contradicts itself from chapter to chapter on the most important events to its own narrative. It is not a historical document.

    It is the equivalent of a poorly-written novel that takes liberties with historical events of the time. It’s like if 2,000 years from now, archaeologists dug up a Dan Brown novel and decide that this is an accurate portrayal of true events of the 2000s because he mentions Paris and Rome.

    we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.

    If the only evidence of them exists in a book dedicated to glorifying them, and not a single shred of contemporary evidence from someone living at the same time as they did, as is the case with Jesus, then I question their existence too.

    He is an atheist historian, so I do not think that he is bias towards “a Jesus” existing. This is only one historian, but If you want me to prove the consensus that there is a historical Jesus I can. I don’t think this is the important issue, but if you wish to pursue it more we can.

    How about this: can you name one piece of writing, coming from the time Jesus allegedly existed, that speaks about Jesus, besides the Bible? Just one?

  321. on 30 Jul 2010 at 4:26 pm 321.Severin said …

    317 Biff
    “Most atheist are biased against God…”

    What an imprudence!
    Have you ever seen definition of the word?

    You call „biased“ people who DO NOT BELIEVE something!

    According to your logic all the people who do not believe there is Santa, Ra, Qutzalkoatl, mermaids… are biased!?
    Strange!

    Atheists have nothing agains any god, if he/she/it takes some time to address to us.
    If there is a god, and if he/she/it is interested in me, he/she/it is always welcome to say something to me. I am open to gods, but NOT to mediators!

    Why would allmighty god need mediators, and why would I trust mediators? They (mediators) are FIGHTING against each other, offering too many gods for my taste. And you expect ME to trust them!?
    No, thanks!

  322. on 30 Jul 2010 at 4:57 pm 322.Severin said …

    318 Max
    „I actually did take Russian History in College and I never learned this fact! I am now attempting to contact my old professor.“

    Please do! Find other sources too!

    Before revolution Russia was totally religious country, in which church had enormeous impact to life of ordinary people.
    The same people who supported communist revolution – why? – I already explained it several times in this blog, but I will explain it to you again if necessary.

    The question is: when you learn it was so, WHAT WILL YOU SAY?
    Close your eyes?

    As you already did, in fact: you did NOT comment Germany! Too dangerous for you!

    Or, maybe you want to say that you never heard that Hitler was elected on free and FAIR elections by 100% christian nation?

  323. on 30 Jul 2010 at 5:47 pm 323.Severin said …

    310 Truthteller
    “First off your wrong I am using a mobile phone…”
    How can I be wrong if I pose a question? Only the answer can be wrong.

    So, you are using things behing which is 100% science: mobile phone, computer, trains, plains, vaccines…….
    So, you DO TRUST “fucking” scientists, otherwise you would never use their “fucking” achievments, like computers, vaccines, madicals, plains, trains, mobile phones …!
    Why would you use those things if you would not TRUST them?
    Would you go to hospital if you would not trust science?

    There is consensus among tens of thousends of independent scientists about big bang, evolution…etc, but when they talk such issues, you DO NOT TRUST THEM!

    Now please try to explain a simple paradox:
    You DO trust scientists when they give you vaccines (to prevent you to die young from tuberculosis or smallpox).

    You DO NOT trust the same scientists when they talk evolution or big bang!?
    WHY would scientist have interest to talk lie about evolution, if they obviously did NOT lie about your mobile phone?

  324. on 30 Jul 2010 at 11:52 pm 324.Horatio said …

    Max

    Sev and 3D routinely use one another as sources of authority. Anytime you see Sev us 100% for anything just laugh and move on. Of course the former USSR and China today oppress religion. They have murdered multiples of millions, not those worshiping RA or FSM, but Christ. Atheist fail to wrap their minds around that fact.

    These Communist regimes want their subjects to follow their state religion of atheism in order to control the masses.

    Its not new. Rome realized the danger of Christians who would put Christ ahead of Caesar. The USSR and China chose to keep people with no hope. Rome offered up Caesar.

  325. on 31 Jul 2010 at 2:48 am 325.Rayn said …

    Actually, in the former USSR during Stalin’s time people worshiped Stalin.
    But all of this is irrelevant.
    Where is your evidence of God?

  326. on 31 Jul 2010 at 5:31 am 326.Severin said …

    323 Horatio
    You better check before you claim something!
    You can not change history by laughing.

    Before communist revolution both Russia and China WERE highly religious nations.
    Orthodox christianity was the state religion in Russia. Their emperors (czars) were all orthodox christians for more than a millenium, their nobility was orthodox christians and their common people was orthodox christians. No atheists!
    You can not make the fact dissappear by laughing or by closing your eyes.
    Can you imagine ANY country at the beginning of 20th century with predominantly atheist population?
    There was no such a country on earth!
    Buddhism was (and still is) the major religion in China. Before their revolution majority of Chinese people were NOT christians, but were highly religious. No atheists in any significant number in China or Russia in the 1st half of 20th century. No more than in the USA or Belgium.

    No one can deny the FACT: communist revolution were brought and supported by RELIGIOUS nations. That is the FACT, dear Horatio!

    And, of course, the FACT is that German nation (100% or 99% or 97.65% christians, does it matter?) VOTED for Hitler on free and fair elections.
    A few atheists (such as Clara Zetkin) did NOT vote for Hitler.

    Yes, and American slaveholders were ALL good christians!

  327. on 31 Jul 2010 at 6:19 am 327.Severin said …

    Horatio
    “These Communist regimes want their subjects to follow their state religion of atheism in order to control the masses.”

    Unlike religions, communist regimes promissed SOCIAL equality. Unlike religions, they propagued PARADISE ON EARTH (HERE and NOW, not after you die). I lived in a “soft” communist regime and I KNOW it! I LIVED with it for 45 years!

    Communist SOCIAL program was the “glue” on which most uneducated (practically illiterate) and poor masses caught on.
    Imagine millions of peasants and workers which possessed nothing and never had chances to go to schools, to doctors, to have their own land or houses…for CENTURIES.
    Then someone comes and promisses them they will get everything only if communism wins!
    They were ALL religious, but they felt communism as new hope, much more practical (paradise here and now!!!) than any religion. They had nothing to lose!

    THAT was the card communist leaders played on! They knew uneducated people, already poisoned with religion, will “glue” on it.
    So people just ACCEPTED THE NEW RELIGION! They SUPPORTED communist revolutions (both in Russia and China) by their blood and their lives!

    Before communism, you have MANY examples of massive and sudden changings of religion in human history. Nothing new!

    Late after communist regimes an their lunatic leaders took power, poor people sobered up, but it was too late!

    You are right: communist leaders saw religions as competition, because they wanted people to worship THEM.
    And people DID! It took a lot of time to sober up. But before it happened, they WARSHIPPED Stalin and Mao as sincerely as they worshiped their gods befor communism.
    Even MORE sincerely!

    Atheist would be much more clever and cautious! They would never fall on communist tricks, as religious masses did. Unfortunately, there were NO atheists there at that time.

  328. on 31 Jul 2010 at 6:27 am 328.Severin said …

    Hratio
    And guess what?!
    ALL religion, just like communism, take OTHER religions as COMPETITION and fight them.
    So, as I already stated: communism = religions.

  329. on 31 Jul 2010 at 7:29 am 329.Severin said …

    communism = religions

    Some support to that claim:

    Both, communism and ALL religions base their power on unsustainable promisses (lies, like 72 virgins, eternal life, paradise on earth here and now…).
    Both, communism and religions, use extremely brutal power against people who do not trust them.
    Both, communism and ALL religions take other political options and other religions as MORTAL ENEMIES and FIGHT them by all means. Most frequently by VERY BRUTAL MEANS (history, but also today).
    Both, communism and all religions have EXACTLY the same (very pompous) iconography! Differences are only in details (names of „gods“, colours of flags, pictures…).

  330. on 14 Aug 2010 at 3:22 pm 330.Michael said …

    I’m wondering how devout most atheist will be when they are commanded to worship Allah or die.
    Are you willing to die for your belief or will you play the hypocrite and fall into their ranks to save your own skin. Don’t think for a moment that time is not coming. It is…. just look around you. The call to prayer is already heard in the small towns around Dearborn, MI…. where is your hero the ACLU? Obama is turning his back on Israel and has bowed to the Saudi King. You don’t think change is on the horizon?
    It is your own faith you need to be questioning.
    How strong is it that there is nothingness after death.
    “Ex nihilo nihil fit” but there is something…. from where? And does something return to nothing?

  331. on 14 Aug 2010 at 5:42 pm 331.3D said …

    329.Michael said …

    I’m wondering how devout most atheist will be when they are commanded to worship Allah or die.

    de·vout/di?vout/Adjective
    1. Having or showing deep religious feeling or commitment.
    2. Totally committed to a cause or belief.

    There is no such thing as a “devout” atheist. No one is completely committed to atheism; it’s just a conclusion people come to based on the facts. If new facts came in that made it clear there was a god, atheists wouldn’t be atheists anymore. They would adjust to the evidence.

    Are you willing to die for your belief or will you play the hypocrite and fall into their ranks to save your own skin.

    If my country was taken over by religious craziness, whether Christian or Islam or otherwise, and they were killing people who didn’t go along with it, of course I would pretend to be a Christian or Muslim. Who cares? It isn’t real, so there’s no harm in pretending to do it to survive.

    I’d also like to think I would have the courage to try to work behind the scenes to do whatever I could to get rid of the regime.

    Of course your question is steeped in right-wing paranoia noise, but if you’re suggesting that atheists are only anti-Christian and not anti-Muslim, then you’re wrong.

    Don’t think for a moment that time is not coming. It is…. just look around you.

    OMG you’re right! I just saw a black helicopter! Can you help me out with the best brand of tinfoil to use for hat making? And the best position to hide in under the bed? Thanks.

    The call to prayer is already heard in the small towns around Dearborn, MI…. where is your hero the ACLU? Obama is turning his back on Israel and has bowed to the Saudi King.

    You’re right, the shame. He should have held hands with Saudi royalty and kissed them on the lips, like Bush did.

    It is your own faith you need to be questioning.
    How strong is it that there is nothingness after death.
    “Ex nihilo nihil fit” but there is something…. from where?

    Good question. According to you, God is something. Where did he come from? Nothing? Nihilo?

  332. on 14 Aug 2010 at 6:25 pm 332.Lou said …

    Michael,

    Atheism offers nothing so why would anyone die for it? Christ offers everything and He is worth standing up for. Its the difference between having a purpose and just being a product of random chance. Its sad really but there is still hope for them while they still have life.

  333. on 14 Aug 2010 at 7:12 pm 333.3D said …

    331.Lou said …

    Michael,
    Atheism offers nothing so why would anyone die for it? Christ offers everything and He is worth standing up for.

    Or flying a plane into a building for.

    Its the difference between having a purpose and just being a product of random chance.

    Apparently that purpose-driven life didn’t help to straighten out the lives of all those priests who fuck boys, or all the Christians who burned witches, or all the Christians who owned slaves.

  334. on 01 Sep 2010 at 4:14 pm 334.Harry said …

    Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today. Many examples showing God’s design could be given, possibly with no end. But here is one:

    The Earth…its size is perfect. The Earth’s size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth’s surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

    The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth’s position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

    And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

    Water…colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You’ll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

    Harry

  335. on 02 Sep 2010 at 5:48 am 335.Severin said …

    333 Harry
    You are right about the earth.

    Just HOW does it prove existance of god?

  336. on 02 Sep 2010 at 4:00 pm 336.Observer said …

    #333 Harry. Is this a prank? This is the sort of thing one would expect to hear from a televangelist trying to lighten the pockets of the weak and or stupid.

    “Water…colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water).” and the others are statements of tautological relationships. Water is a great solvent, you know, highly polar molecules, and it is abundant on earth. Most of the chemistry on the planet is wet chemistry. Is it surprising that life on earth evolved making use of it?

    “And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull.” Actually, size has nothing to do with it. It is the mass that is important. But if the mass, velocity, and distance were not within a pretty narrow band, presumably what you mean by “perfect”, the moon would have either spun off into space, or crashed on our planet.

    Harry what you have written is really childish, sort of like something a dreamy 13-year old girl would write. It is nauseatingly romantic without the intelligence of late 19th century writing. Fess up- Is this a prank?

  337. on 02 Sep 2010 at 6:31 pm 337.A Romantic said …

    It’s not a prank. Water is a real compound denoted by H2O. You certainly partake daily and if your night is clear, gaze up to the stars. The big ball in the sky is what we call our moon. It’s real and everything.

  338. on 16 Sep 2010 at 5:44 pm 338.Melanie Stephan said …

    I think I like atheists better than christains . 1. Christains don’t really understand the Bible cause someone else has to tell them what it means. 2. The Church will give them an outragous interpretation and they will take it in, like it’s gospel.

    I have been going to Christains sites and telling them that 0. Daniel’s Biblical Prophecy is about 911 and they don’t get it.
    The story of Nebuchadnezzar in the Book of Daniel is about 911. There are a number of similarities of the Empire of Nebuchadnezzar and the Empire of Saddam Hussein. I start with the Tree that grew tall and strong. When the tree was cut down the Kings reign fell with it. When the Twin Towers fell Saddam’s reign also fell.

  339. on 16 Sep 2010 at 7:18 pm 339.Curmudgeon at large said …

    “1. Christains don’t really understand the Bible cause someone else has to tell them what it means.”

    So your argument would be atheist understand better?

    “2. The Church will give them an outragous interpretation and they will take it in, like it’s gospel.”

    Uh huh, Isn’t that what your are doing right above in your interpretation of Daniel and 911?

  340. on 16 Sep 2010 at 11:41 pm 340.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hi Curmudgeon at Large, I just like Atheists because you can reason with them. God likes them too. They have some good reasons not to believe. 1. God never shows himself and 2. He rarely ever talks to anyone.

    And I am right on the money with the Interpretation of Daniel in the story about Nebuchadnezzar: 1. Both Kings lived in Iraq . Saddam Hussein is a representative for Nebuchadnezzar in the Book of Daniel. Saddam and Nebuchadnezzar are archetypes. They are both similar stories. In a number of ways they can be viewed as exactly the same story. When the Tree (Twin Towers) fell so does their empires.

    Nebuchadnezzar’s Palace:
    In 1982, Saddam’s workers began reconstructing Babylon’s most imposing building, the 600-room palace of King Nebuchadnezzar II. Archaeologists were horrified. Many said that to rebuild on top of ancient artifacts does not preserve history, but disfigures it. The original bricks, which rise two or three feet from the ground, bear ancient inscriptions praising Nebuchadnezzar. Above these, Saddam Hussein’s workers laid more than 60-million sand-colored bricks inscribed with the words, “In the era of Saddam Hussein, protector of Iraq, who rebuilt civilization and rebuilt Babylon.” The new bricks began to crack after only ten years.

    2. The Tree is a symbol of the Economy. Daniel interprets King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in this verse:

    Dan 4: 20 “The tree that you beheld, that grew great and became strong and the height of which finally reached the heavens and which was visible to all the earth. 21 and the foliage of which was fair, and the fruit of which was abundant, and on which there was food for all; under which the beasts of the field would dwell, and on the boughs of which the birds of the heavens would reside, 22 it is you, O king, because you have grown great and become strong, and your grandeur has grown great and reached to the heavens, and your rulership to the extremity of the earth.

    The tree is a metaphor for a skyscraper. The tree in this verse is also a symbol of the economy. In the same way the World Trade Center is also a symbol of the economy.

    3. Chop the tree down, but leave the foundation.

    Daniel 4: 23 “’And because the king beheld a watcher, even a holy one, coming down from the heavens, who was also saying; “Chop the tree down, and RUIN it. However, LEAVE its rootstock itself in earth, but with a banding of iron and of copper, among the grass of the field, and with the dew of the heavens let it become wet, and with the beasts of the field let its portion be until seven times themselves pass over it.

    When the Twin Towers fell so did the DOW and the economy. The remaining structure was removed down to its foundation. The tower foundation is similar to the rootstock of the tree. The clean up took approx. 8 months. Date of ceremony marking end of the clean-up of the Twin Towers was: May 30, 2002. ( Note there were 7 buildings in the WTC.)

  341. on 16 Sep 2010 at 11:51 pm 341.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hi Curmudgeon at large,
    My point is that the Church hasn’t found the real prophecy in Daniel yet. I found one other person, by the name of Paul, that says that 911 was prophecied in the Bible, but he found it in Isaiah 30: 23 – 25

    In the day of the plenteous harvest… there shall be (news) upon every high mountain… in the day of great slaughter, when the towers fall – Isaiah 30:23 – 25

    Paul does go on to interpret Daniel, but he doesn’t see 911 in the story of Daniel.

  342. on 16 Sep 2010 at 11:58 pm 342.Melanie Stephan said …

    Paul found one verse, I found a whole Chapter. The Divine Interpretation:
    4. The End nears for Nebuchadnezzar and Saddam Hussein.
    After a year passes since the fall of the Towers (Skyscraper) both Nebuchadnezzar’s and Saddam’s regime begins to pass.

    Dan 4: 29 At the end of twelve lunar months he happened to be walking upon the royal place of Babylon. 30 The king was answering and saying: “Is not this Babylon the Great. , that I myself have built for the royal house with the strength of my might and for the dignity of my majesty?” 31 While the word was yet in the king’s mouth, there was a voice that fell from the heavens: “ To you it is being said, O Nebuchadnezzar the King, “The kingdom itself has gone away from you,

    The 2003 invasion of Iraq (March 20 – May 1, 2003), was the start of the conflict known as the Iraq War or Operation Iraqi Freedom in which a combined force of troops from the United States, alongside the United Kingdom, and smaller contingents from Australia and Poland invaded Iraq and toppled the regime of Saddam Hussein in 21 days of major combat operations.

    5. Period of exile for Nebuchadnezzar and Saddam.

    Daniel 4: 32 and from mankind they are driving even you away, and with the beasts of the field your dwelling will be. Vegetation they will give even to you to eat just like bulls, and seven times themselves will pass over you, until you know that the most high is ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it.”

    After Saddam disappeared the US forces began eagerly searching for him and he was found on Dec. 13, 2003. When Saddam was found in a hole, approximately 7 months after the invasion he looked like this:

    Daniel 4:33 and with the dew of the heavens his own body got to be wet, until his very hair grew long just like eagles’ [feathers] and his nails like birds’ [claws]

    6. The Kings Son is Killed. His end comes when Daniel is summoned to Nebuchadnezzar’s palace to interpret the writing on the wall for the Kings son, Belshazzar. Starting at Daniel 5: 24, these verses tell the end of Nebuchadnezzar’s regime. In a similar story it is also the end of Saddam Hussein‘s rule.

    Daniel 5:24 Consequently from before him there was being sent to the back of a hand, and this very writing was inscribed. 25 And this is the writing that was inscribed: ME’NE. ME’NE, TE’KEL and PAR’SIN. 26 “This is the interpretation of the word: ME’NE, God has numbered [the days of] your kingdom and has finished it. 27 TE’KEL, you have been weighted in the balances and have been found deficient. 28 “PE’ERES, your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians.” 29 At that time Bel-shaz’zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they heralded concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 In that very night Bel-shaz-sar the Chaldean king was killed. 31 and Da-rius the Mede himself received the kingdom, being about sixty two years old.

    The writing on the wall was for Qusay and Uday, the notorious sons of Saddam Hussein.
    From Wiki:

    On July 22, 2003, troops of the American 65th MP CO Airborne, aided by U.S. Special Forces, killed Qusay, his 14 year old son Mustapha, and his older brother Uday, during a raid on a home in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul.

    In both stories Nebuchadnezzar son is killed and so are Saddam’s sons. When a kings sons are killed then so is the Father, and that marks the end of his reign. Saddam was later brought to trial under the Iraqi interim government set up by US led forces. Saddam and his lawyers’ contesting the court’s authority and maintaining that he was still the President of Iraq. He was executed on December 30, 2006.

    To summarize from the prophet Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar and Saddam are exactly the same story.

  343. on 17 Sep 2010 at 12:12 am 343.Melanie Stephan said …

    To those of you that don’t like George Bush. Turns out he is Gods servant. He did Gods will. And Saddam Hussein got the wrath of God. So that means God didn’t like Saddam. God probably hateth him and his sons.

    And Daniel, who was a Jew, wrote about it thousands of years before there were ever Skyscrapers. But a Tree is like a Skyscraper. So, that makes Daniel a true prophet.

  344. on 17 Sep 2010 at 3:01 am 344.Hell Yeah said …

    Melanie,
    Relating that story as if the prophecy was told of 911 is rediculous. First of all, why wasn’t it two trees? Cutting trees down is a common story in history. Isn’t there a story out there about Washington cutting down the cherry tree? Should we try to relate that as well? LOL Or how about the Lord of the Rings story? And you do realize that Saddam had nothing to do with 911, right?

  345. on 17 Sep 2010 at 1:27 pm 345.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hi, Hell Yeah . . .I guess what your saying is that it is just coincidential that the story about Nebuchadnezzar and Saddam are exactly the same stories.

    Hell Yeah, did you see the picture of Saddam when the US forces found him. He looked exactly like Nebuchadnezzar during his period of madness.

    And to all of the Christians who have been commenting here. This is what I have to say to you: “All of you are 100% wrong about Jesus”. And God backs me up on this cause it says so in the Book of Genesis in the story about Adam and Eve. I start with the Tree of Knowledge of good and bad.

    God likes Trees.

  346. on 17 Sep 2010 at 8:16 pm 346.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, you asked. “First of all, why wasn’t it two trees?

    I asked myself that same question. “Why didn’t Nebuchadnezzar dream of two trees? This is what I think:

    The story is about twins. We have identical stories and we have two presidents with the same name. One is in Iraq and the other is in America, Saddam Hussein and Barack Hussein Obama.
    Both men bear the same name, “Warrior Nation”. In some ways both nations are the same (Twins). We have similarities and we also have differences.

    In ancient history, as in Babylon, we started out as one Nation. The nation divided and became two, and so on, and so on.

  347. on 17 Sep 2010 at 11:34 pm 347.Melanie Stephan said …

    Do you want me to tell you about the Tree of Knowledge of good and Bad in the Book of Genesis, Hell Yeah? Good, here it is:

    In the Book of Genesis, God is telling us two stories with the words of one. From the appearance of being the first two humans in creation Adam and Eve share a commonality with all of us. Adam and Eve are representatives for all of us. God has hidden a prophesy about the future in the story similar to the prophesy written in Daniel. The following is the interpretation of the story about Adam and Eve in the present. I start at Genesis 2:17 –

    Gen 2 : 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

    Trees don’t grow knowledge so I know God is talking in symbols. Knowledge comes from Books. Books are made from the pulp of trees. So the Tree is a Book. A Tree is a metaphor for a Book. This book has knowledge of good and bad. The Book is the Bible. The Bible contains the knowledge of good and bad. Besides I took this verse right out of the Bible. You can’t eat from a book and gain knowledge, but you can digest a book . As in Readers Digest. You are taking the words in, like food. God says, you will positively die. The Book has poison in it. The poison is the fruit on the tree.

    What is the fruit on the tree that we must not eat? Or, What is the fruit in the New Testament? We know that a Cross is also a Tree and Jesus was nailed to the tree. The fruit from the Bible is Jesus. Clues are Adam and Eve are bare naked. Bare sounds like Bear.

    The Tree bears Jesus

    The Tree of Knowledge is a Book, and the fruit on the tree is Jesus. This is what God is saying.

    Gen 2 : 17 But as for the (Book) of the knowledge of good and bad you must not (take in Jesus) from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

  348. on 17 Sep 2010 at 11:51 pm 348.Melanie Stephan said …

    If this comes as a shock to you, remember Jews don’t believe in Jesus. They have good reasons not to. Did it ever dawn on any of you that the Jews could be right?

  349. on 18 Sep 2010 at 1:27 pm 349.Biff said …

    Messianic Jews believe in Jesus and I believe they are right. 330 prophecies fulfilled by one man is strong evidence.

  350. on 19 Sep 2010 at 10:28 pm 350.Melanie Stephan said …

    Biff, your 100% wrong. Jesus never fulfilled one prophecy. You can’t even name one. Jesus said he would return soon. That was 2000 years ago. 2000 years is not soon.

  351. on 20 Sep 2010 at 3:24 am 351.Biff said …

    Melanie,

    You new to read up on your OT as well as the Gospels. Read it for yourself, don’t let the priest, Rabbis, or even me do the reading for you. Very dangerous. There is around 330 prophecies.

  352. on 21 Sep 2010 at 2:02 am 352.Hell Yeah said …

    Melanie,
    We both have an e, l, and a in our names. Golly, there must be a god out there then!

    You also brought up an interesting point about Jews (and other religions) not believing in Jesus. What makes you not believe in Jesus? Christians, if there are people out there that don’t believe in Jesus, but believe in a God, then why do you believe in Jesus? Atheists just take one step further than not believing in Jesus, and that is not believing in God. If it is possible to believe in a God without Jesus, then why isn’t it possible to not have a God at all? Think about it. If the story of Jesus can be made up, then why isn’t the story of God made up? Watch the movie called the Invention of Lying, and you can skip to the middle if you want on the part where he is telling his mom as she is dying that there is an afterlife just to comfort her since she is dying. This is how the story of a heaven began. Only to comfort dying people and those afraid of dying.

  353. on 21 Sep 2010 at 7:48 am 353.Severin said …

    348 Biff
    “Messianic Jews believe in Jesus and I believe they are right.”

    Egyptians believed in Ra, and I believe they were right.
    So did Aztecs, Greeks, Polynesian and African tribes…. believe in their gods (and still believe!) and I think they all were/are right.

    You prove why Jesus/Biblical god is better or more real than all other gods!

  354. on 21 Sep 2010 at 4:46 pm 354.truthteller7 said …

    hello room regarding post 322 …..severin i never said i dont trust science however i have had vaccines but recently come to the knowledge that they dont help people they make certain people infertile part of a massive global scheme to cut down the earths population by 90 percent for the new world order

  355. on 21 Sep 2010 at 4:50 pm 355.truthteller7 said …

    theres a quote in the bible that says the one saying theres no jehovah is the lawless one and among the is no one doing good. that means those who say there isnt a supreme god is lawless and out of everyone of you none of you are doing good …isnt that sad

  356. on 21 Sep 2010 at 9:24 pm 356.Biff said …

    Severin, you worship Ra? How is that working for you?

  357. on 22 Sep 2010 at 4:35 am 357.Severin said …

    353
    truthteller
    “however i have had vaccines but recently come to the knowledge that they dont help people they make certain people infertile part of a massive global scheme to cut down the earths population by 90 percent for the new world order…”

    Please find some fascist or communist blog to spread ideas about global conspiracy.
    I do not think this is the right place to talk such BS.

  358. on 23 Sep 2010 at 1:47 am 358.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, we both have an E, A, L and an h in our names. Do you see it?

    You asked: “What makes you not believe in Jesus? Now Jesus was a real man, his real name was not Jesus. The Romans made that name up.

    This is the real story about Jesus. He was born and lived in Jerusalem. He was taken to Rome with other prisoners. He was served up to the Goddess Diana at a late summer event. After the Romans taught him a lesson about who was more superior his body was tossed over the Tarpeian Rock. This is the place the Romans dispose of human trash. That means that when you die your old body is trash. Your old body does not come back to life.

    God comes for his son. Jesus is taken back to his fathers house where he receives a beautiful new body. Jesus is not his real name. His real name is John. The body of Christ is bread. Bread is Dough. Johns last name is Doe.

    That means that John was not the prophet. The latin meaning of the word “Sus” is Swine. Je-sus tranlated from Latin means Pigman. That is what the Romans thought of the Jews, they were swine. The entire New Testament is an insult to the Jews.

    You don’t have to believe me go Google and find out for yourself.

    And God says so right in Genesis in the story about Adam and Eve. Jesus is the fruit in the Bible (NT). The Tree Bears Jesus.

  359. on 23 Sep 2010 at 1:49 am 359.Melanie Stephan said …

    E,A, L and H makes Heal.

  360. on 23 Sep 2010 at 1:56 am 360.Melanie Stephan said …

    Biff, just name one of 330 prophesis.

  361. on 16 Oct 2010 at 8:11 pm 361.Maineac said …

    This is a quite a rambling blog. I read the first few posts and then skipped to the end so go ahead and berate me for not reading the whole thing.

    For a little back ground, I was raised a southern baptist, I am now a humanist.

    To the question, “What can you do that will send you to hell?” the answer is be born. To avoid hell you just have to accept Jesus as your savior.

    On the bigger question of religion, it plays a valuable role for many people. The purpose of religion is to answer the un-answerable questions. Ten thousand years ago that might have been “What is that big ball of fire that travels across sky every day and warms me?” and “Why does it come some days and not others?” and, more important, “What can I do to make sure it comes back?”

    As our science advanced we learned what warmed the earth and so we ridicule those who worshiped the sun. Yet we still have unanswerable questions. For instance, “What happens when we die?” The vast majority of us agree that for all living things, EXCEPT humans, decay follows death. Perhaps some day the tipping point will come and the majority of us will realize that we too, like other living things, simply decay when we die.

    That still leaves perhaps the most important question science may never answer …

    Why?

  362. on 18 Oct 2010 at 11:57 pm 362.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hi Maineac,
    You asked, Why? That is the age old question, why do we die? The answer is we don’t die, your old body does decay, but you don’t die. Your body has two parts. Like a bird when it’s born leaves behind an empty shell. Your body is like a shell, when you are born into the next world all you leave behind is an empty shell. When you leave behind your shell you are born into the next new like a new born bird. Your old shell is trash. Jesus did not walk around in his old body after he was crucified.

  363. on 19 Oct 2010 at 12:07 am 363.Hell Yeah said …

    Melanie said, “we don’t die, your old body does decay, but you don’t die. Your body has two parts. Like a bird when it’s born leaves behind an empty shell. Your body is like a shell, when you are born into the next world all you leave behind is an empty shell. When you leave behind your shell you are born into the next new like a new born bird. Your old shell is trash. Jesus did not walk around in his old body after he was crucified.”

    Thank you. I just got my big laugh for the day. Last I remember, you leave your mom’s womb behind when you are born. And last I remember, birds don’t have a life inside that shell.

    And our body only has one part. Our body is made up of chemical reactions which our mind is part of. When our body dies, so do these chemical reactions that make up our mind.

  364. on 20 Oct 2010 at 12:10 am 364.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, I’m happy I got a laugh out of you. Life is far more complicated than just chemical reactions. The story about Adam and Eve is about deception. The snake decieves Eve and she takes the fruit.

    In the book of Genesis, God tells us exactly who Satan is. Satan has deceived the whole world. It also says that God created Satan in the same verse.

    But, before I go to the verse I need to make a point about talking snakes. You can’t read the story about Adam and Eve literally for one reason; and that is 1: ‘Snakes don’t talk‘. The first question you have to ask yourself is, ‘How does this snake manage to talk?’ Some people who are reading this literally put it aside. They must be thinking, Well this is God talking and there are things I don’t know about. So they sweep it aside. Yea, there are things you don’t know about if you think that way. The thing you don’t know is that, Snakes don’t talk.

    In this verse God tells us exactly who Satan is:

    Genesis 3 : 1 Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that God had made. So it began to say to the woman: “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” 2 At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. 3 But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, “You must not eat from it, no, You must not touch it that you do not die.’”

    The snake talks. Again we know that snakes don’t talk so God is talking in symbols. God says the snake is a wild beast. That’s not true, snakes are reptiles. A beast is a mammal. God didn’t make a mistake by saying, wild beasts, he knows what he’s doing. So the Serpent is really a mammal that talks. Man is the only mammal that talks. The serpent is really a man. Then, how do snakes deceive us. We think the snake is a stick until we almost step on it. Then it moves. Now we know the Serpent is a Man with characteristics of a stick. The snake speaks from the stick. Does this sound familiar:

    The Church speaks from the Cross.

    The Cross is a metaphor for a Stick. The serpent talks from the stick and the Church talks from the Cross. If it sounds the same it is the same. The Roman Catholic Pagan Church is Satan, The great deceiver. Who would have ever known if it hadn’t been written by God himself right into the Bible. Satan is really the Christian Church.

  365. on 20 Oct 2010 at 12:24 am 365.Melanie Stephan said …

    Now Christians really worship Satan. Satan is the great deciever. “Genesis 3 : 1 Now the serpent proved to be the most cautious of all the wild beasts of the field that God had made.” God created all of the wild beasts, that means he also created Satan.

    Your being deceived and God is behind it. Yet there is even a better deception that Satan.

    Now, lets go to Quantum Mechanics, and the two world theory. You don’t need to know everything about atoms, just read up on the theory. By the way Atom and Adam sound exactly the same. Adam is made from of Clay in the creation story. Clay is fine particals. Atoms are particals broken down to where they can’t be divided. Very similar.
    God is telling you about Atoms before the word is ever added to the language.

    The big deception is that your in two worlds at the same time. One World is real and the other world is a reflection of the other. Your not in the real world right now. Everything you see is a deception.

  366. on 20 Oct 2010 at 12:28 am 366.Hell Yeah said …

    Oh, geeze…just when I thought believers of God couldn’t get any more crazier. Hor, Lou, Boz, etc, what do you think of what Melanie is saying? I bet even you think her ideas are crazy.

  367. on 20 Oct 2010 at 3:33 pm 367.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, Have you ever heard of the infamous double slit experiment in Quantum Mechanics. If not it is well worth taking a look at. The results of this experiment has scientists baffled and has changed the way science views the properties of matter. In the experiment Matter,atoms behave like energy. How can that happen? I have a good idea on what’s going on. I know it is part of the big deception. Things, Matter, for that matter, are not quite what we think they are.

    If you knew that God was watching you all the time, you might change your behavior. In the double slit experiment when an observer is added, the results of the experiment change. How could that happen? Matter knows it is being watched and then changes its behvior in the experiment.

    Now I figured all of this out by reading Genesis. God put a hidden message in the story. He wrote 2 stories with the words of one story. If you knew how to crack code, you might be able to see it for yourself. If you read Genesis literally your not going to get it all.

  368. on 21 Oct 2010 at 12:05 am 368.Hell Yeah said …

    “Matter knows it is being watched”

    So if matter has a mind, then maybe it intelligently designed it’s own complexity without a God, instead of just random events over a long period of time. LOL

  369. on 21 Oct 2010 at 3:22 pm 369.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, I think your on to something. This could be a new theory. The new theory is: “Intelligence is not restricted to living creatures but also includes all Matter, or anything whos parts consist of Atoms”.

    Then there is an even bigger question. Why do Atoms have intelligence?

  370. on 21 Oct 2010 at 4:25 pm 370.Severin said …

    368 MS
    “Why do Atoms have intelligence?”

    Much simpler question for you: why not?

  371. on 22 Oct 2010 at 6:55 pm 371.Melanie Stephan said …

    Definition of Atom: the smallest particle of a chemical element that can exist alone or in combination.

    So, If we are down the the smallest particle of an element. Where whould the intelligence be located?

  372. on 22 Oct 2010 at 9:17 pm 372.Severin said …

    370 MS
    “So, If we are down the the smallest particle of an element. Where whould the intelligence be located?”

    In given and defined conditions an atom will always act the same way. There will be no exceptions.
    Laws of physics rule the behaviour of everything, including atoms and their parts, and they act always the same way in same conditions.

    Why is it necessary intelligence to be located “inside” of something?
    Why not “around” something?
    Or, maybe, that “something” = intelligence itself!

    If we use a partial definition of „intelligence“ as ability to „recognize“, to „plan“ and to „act“, natural laws fulfil it perfectly. An atom „recognizes“ changes in surrounding conditions, and according to „plans“ built in its structure, it „acts“ precisely (and PREDICTABLY! ALLWAYS the same way!).
    VERY intelligent, I would say!

    I would say (without pretending to be necessarily right) that natural laws are a SORT of “intelligence” immanent to matter/energy, „built in“ their structure.

    Someone might jump and say: he is talking god!
    Maybe!
    I am NOT talking god the creator, because we immediatelly meet the problem of creator’s creator, creator’s creator’s creator, etc.

    If someone says that god did create universe but was never created himself (he “just existed”, or what), I (and everyone with a grain of brain) pose the question: if god was not created, WHY, the hell, matter/energy MUST have been created?
    WHY can’t we say the same for matter/energy: they were not created, they just existed and transformed according to their immanent „intelligence“ to different forms?
    It sound more logical than some „hokus-pokus“ creation done by “immaterial” “timeless” (etc) creature.

    So I do not agre creation theory, but do agree (for now, untill we learn more) to put:
    Matter/energy = god

    Of course (Need to explain? Hope not!), such a „god“ has nothing to do with any of million gods invented on planet earth by humans.

  373. on 22 Oct 2010 at 9:20 pm 373.Severin said …

    370 MS

    Correction:
    matter/energy/natural laws = god

  374. on 22 Oct 2010 at 9:28 pm 374.Hell Yeah said …

    For those of you who believe in a God had to create the universe because of its complexity, then why do some of you believe there is an afterlife that humans go to? How does that relate?

  375. on 23 Oct 2010 at 3:45 pm 375.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, I know there is a God. Just like you have parents, so does God. And God himself does not know how all of this started, however he does know far more about it than you do. The Laws of Nature and Science are far more complex than could ever be imagined. Even by God himself.

    Yeah, go and laugh.

    Life is like a Black Box. The box works for the owner, but the owner does not know how the box works.

  376. on 23 Oct 2010 at 3:51 pm 376.Melanie Stephan said …

    There are two worlds. You are in both worlds at the same time. Now why can’t you see the other world? I know the answer. A clue has to do with dreaming. It also answers the question: “Why do we dream?

    Now don’t say Oh, that is BS. Quantum Mechanics two world theory backs me up on this.

  377. on 23 Oct 2010 at 5:16 pm 377.Hell Yeah said …

    “There are two worlds. You are in both worlds at the same time. Now why can’t you see the other world? I know the answer. A clue has to do with dreaming.”

    Melanie,
    Did you get your ideas from watching Avatar? LOL You might want to do research on why we actually dream. It isn’t because we are in two different worlds at the same time.

    ———–

    “I know there is a God. Just like you have parents, so does God. And God himself does not know how all of this started.”

    Watch too many science fiction movies? Yes, you do have an imaginary mind, but please don’t make shit up as you go. And please tell that to the people that believe God knows everything.

  378. on 23 Oct 2010 at 6:54 pm 378.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hell Yeah, I rather talk to the atheists cause I think they may have more of a working brain than the Christians do. Some of them are real haters if you don’t think like they do.

    OK, when your dreaming, how many worlds are you in at the same time? The answer is two. Your in the dream world and you are also asleep at home in bed. While you are dreaming you are totally unaware that you are asleep in bed. If you are having a vivid dream everything seems to be very real in the dream world. Your dreams take you to a completely different place while all the time you are in bed at home. And last of all you can’t see the real world that you are in while you are dreaming.

    And I am not making shit up as I go. I believe all of this to be true.

  379. on 23 Oct 2010 at 7:04 pm 379.Melanie Stephan said …

    Right now you are dreaming. This is not the real world, your in the dream wold. Yes, everything seems very real to me too. When you wake up, you will be back in the real world. That is how you resurrect. Resurrect: to raise from the dead. Sleep is like death. When you wake up you resurrect.

    What do think dreams are made of? Atoms

  380. on 24 Oct 2010 at 12:17 am 380.Melanie Stephan said …

    The time that has passed while you are sleeping in the other world is ONE day. That means your entire life in this world amounts to days, and years but only one day has passed in the other world. (See Einsteins theory of relativity.)
    When you die in this world you wake up in the other world and only ONE day has passed there. Just like you remember your dreams here. You will remember your life in this world. You will remember everything. When you wake up you will be in the same place you were before you came to this world. Everything will be familiar and everything will be exactly the same as the day you left it. Some of this information is in the story about Adam and Eve. Some I found elsewhere.

    Genesis 2:21 Hence God had a deep sleep fall upon the man and, while he was sleeping, he took one of his ribs and then closed up the flesh over its place. 22 And God proceeded to build the rib that he had taken from the man into a woman and to bring her to the man.

    The story continues, but never does it say that the man woke up. The time Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden is one day. Their destiny was written before they left Heaven. There are two creation stories of man in Genesis. One is the creation on earth (Chapter 1) and the other is the creation in Heaven or Eden(Chapter 2). That makes two worlds. The Serpent in makes his entrance in Chapter 3.

    Now to complicate things even more. This cycle repeats. Just like days repeat. That means when you die in Heaven you will wake up in the next world (another Heaven). That makes three worlds. Then it repeats again(four worlds). That means there are multiple worlds. God, your father, is dying and he is going to the next world. Just like you will. If you do get to see him again it will be briefly.

  381. on 24 Oct 2010 at 3:24 am 381.CastroPatti said …

    I took my first credit loans when I was a teenager and it helped my family very much. But, I need the financial loan once again.

  382. on 24 Oct 2010 at 3:45 pm 382.nedmorlef said …

    when I hear the word “contradiction” it translates in my mind to “blind”.

    I have read the bible for many years. i have had many atheists share their “contradictions” . I am perplexed because,I have never read a contradiction in the bible.

    I think atheists read “green” and then they read “blue & yellow” and they don’t understand that green and blue & yellow is still green.

  383. on 24 Oct 2010 at 8:45 pm 383.Melanie Stephan said …

    Hi NedMorlef, is that your real name of did you make that up? Thank you for your knowledge in mixing primary colors. Are you mixing half and half or will a little dab a do ya?

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