Feed on Posts or Comments 16 September 2014

Christianity Thomas on 02 Jul 2010 12:31 am

Was “Jesus” really crucified? Probably not.

Since there is no evidence for Jesus’ existence, it is quite likely that he is imaginary:

Is there any evidence that Jesus actually existed? No.

Now it turns out that the iconic feature of his imaginary life – the crucifixion – is likely to be a fabrication as well:

Jesus Died on a Tree Trunk?

Samuelsson did some serious research before advancing this provocative argument: “I spent almost three years,” he says, “reading all the ancient texts I could find … from about Homer until the first century of the Common Era.” He says “some kind of suspension of a living or a dead person or a part of a person” was indeed common at the time, but crucifixion is not mentioned. In the Bible itself, all it says is that Jesus carried and then was executed on a staurus–”there is no other description beyond that.”

41 Responses to “Was “Jesus” really crucified? Probably not.”

  1. on 02 Jul 2010 at 7:34 pm 1.Martin said …

    IF there was an historical Jesus, he was NOTHING like the mythical Christ that the Christians so religiously defend. The “christ” that Christians believe in was actually a construct of the early Catholic Church. The later Gnostic Gospels were written to give “street creds” to the life of this Jesus character, which elevated him from a teacher of the Jewish Faith, to the mythical “son of god” that everyone today rants on and on about.

    It’s sad, really, when you see really intelligent people defending such an indefensible position, with so much evidence and common sense to the contrary. I guess it’s true that the indoctrination of religion at an early age, does indeed ruin many a life. Sad.

  2. on 02 Jul 2010 at 11:01 pm 2.Truth & Reality said …

    The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44).

    Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats….He was [the] Christ…he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

    Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).

    Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

    The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus’ crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

    Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus’ teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

    Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

    Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

    In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed, worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).

    There is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

    http://www.gotquestions.org/did-Jesus-exist.html

  3. on 03 Jul 2010 at 1:42 am 3.Ben said …

    People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.

    The key word here is “believe”. Dying for your belief does not make that belief true, only persuasive. It’s certainly not “evidence” of anything other than the fact they believed it.

  4. on 03 Jul 2010 at 2:00 am 4.Martin said …

    Hey Truth, unfortunately, nearly all of your “proofs” has been debunked even by modern theolgians. NONE of the first century writers from Rome mention Jesus, but IF the historical jesus did exist, he was certainly NOT the Jesus of the Roman Catholic Church. NO WAY.

    Ben, how right you are my friend. I recently got a letter from a believer who said that Christianity is right because of the numbers. Come on, what’s up with that.?

  5. on 03 Jul 2010 at 4:38 am 5.Ben said …

    Ben, how right you are my friend. I recently got a letter from a believer who said that Christianity is right because of the numbers. Come on, what’s up with that.?

    Gotta love the good old appeal to popularity. Human beings are very fond of peer pressure, and very skilled at it. It’s a quick and easy way to get kids into something they would otherwise resist, especially when combined with an appeal to authority (i.e. mum and dad believe it, so it can’t be that absurd).

    It doesn’t work so well on adults though, which is why it rarely comes up except by those who think atheists are just rebellious teenagers as far as faith is concerned.

  6. on 03 Jul 2010 at 3:30 pm 6.Martin said …

    “Gotta love the good old appeal to popularity. Human beings are very fond of peer pressure, and very skilled at it. It’s a quick and easy way to get kids into something they would otherwise resist, especially when combined with an appeal to authority (i.e. mum and dad believe it, so it can’t be that absurd).”

    Exactly my point, we are indoctrinated into the whole faith thing from childhood. Faith is a virtue, and not questioning faith is even more of a virtue. But, we confuse children by then sending them off to school. At school we teach them to experiment, to question, to ask, except religion, that subject gets a free pass, and why because of faith.

    The whole peer pressure thing is best understood by a statement some idiot made to me about why gays should not marry. He said that because the majority of people in this country don’t agree with gay marriage, it shouldn’t be allowed. He used the example of majority rules, which is NOT correct. If it were correct then women probably would never have gotten the right to vote, nor African-Americans the civil rights laws. No, majority opinion does not rule in this country, if it did then the USA might actually be a Christian nation, which would be a terrible thing.

  7. on 03 Jul 2010 at 3:35 pm 7.Martin said …

    “Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.”

    So according to your LOGIC, the gods of ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt, and the Aztecs were real because so many who believed were willing to give up their lives for their gods. Do you believe in Aten, Zeus, Thor, or the Aztec gods? According to you, they HAVE to be real, because so many people gave their lives for them. Bring it to the present day, the god of Islam is real, because millons of Muslims are ready right NOW to give their lives to be martyrs. In fact, they are sure that to do so will result in their going to heaven and getting some virgins. I just wonder if the virgins have a say in this? Of course, I died once, went to heaven, and I’ll tell you those virgins are all fat and ugly. Doesn’t say you get 74 pretty virgins, and well some of them might be boys…. HAHAHAHA

  8. on 03 Jul 2010 at 4:33 pm 8.Severin said …

    2 T & R
    “Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ.”

    Perhaps the greatest evidence that Allah exists is the fact that litterally thousands of muslims gave their lives for him through history, and are giving their lives TODAY for him.

    How does it sound to you?

  9. on 03 Jul 2010 at 5:41 pm 9.A real-ist said …

    “Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the twelve apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.”

    It is called trickery or a made up story. Can you say cult?

  10. on 03 Jul 2010 at 10:25 pm 10.Martin said …

    “It is called trickery or a made up story. Can you say cult?”

    BINGO, well said… it was actually called a cult by the ancient Romans, it was not recognized as a religion. I read a story from a deconverted Roman Catholic woman this week, in it she says that when she too religion in college was when it really started to make her question her beliefs. The clincher for her, as it was for me, was the realization that Christianity had “borrowed” so much from many of the ancient religions, such as virgin births, resurection, miracles, and the crucifixion. The brain-washing of the Christian cult is SO complete that its members refuse to look at the evidence, even when presented in an undisputable fashion. They will simply NOT see the truth.

  11. on 04 Jul 2010 at 12:26 am 11.Truth & Reality said …

    “It is called trickery or a made up story. Can you say cult?”

    I would agree, except that the 12 had a first hand account. Sorry, your argument holds no water and my post still stands as fact. That is why I am here.

  12. on 04 Jul 2010 at 12:33 am 12.Truth & Reality said …

    Martin

    Improve your grammar son. You come across as a pestiferous little twit.

  13. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:15 am 13.3D said …

    12.Truth & Reality said …

    Martin
    Improve your grammar son.

    There should be a comma between “grammar” and “son”.

    Seriously, why does every religious buffoon who comes here and tries to correct grammar screw up their own writing in EVERY POST?

  14. on 04 Jul 2010 at 7:02 am 14.Severin said …

    11 T & R
    “I would agree, except that the 12 had a first hand account.”

    You, of course, have evidencs for your claim!?

    “Sorry, your argument holds no water and my post still stands as fact.”

    Fact? Please!
    Everyone can procalim his post as “fact” but some evidences are necessary to support the claim!

    You said: “Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D.,…, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ”

    Maybe (I do not know) they WERE WILLING to give their lives for Jesus.

    But muslims keep dying for their god TODAY.

    Is it (according to you!) “the greatest evidence” their god is real?

    IF you apply the same logic you use for christians, then….?

  15. on 04 Jul 2010 at 12:04 pm 15.Biff said …

    There should be a comma between “grammar” and “son”.\

    Incorrect, a comma is not needed unless a pause is intended.

    Why do the guys like Observer and Martin insist on grammar being correct? Observer was the first so the rest just assumed it was required.

  16. on 04 Jul 2010 at 1:32 pm 16.Martin said …

    “Martin

    Improve your grammar son. You come across as a pestiferous little twit.”

    And you, SON, come across as a typical, snotty, pompous, ignorant, Christian. If calling me names helps your underdeveloped brain deny what is the truth, then that is your choice.

    You do me no harm by calling me names, and you know why, because it changes NOTHING. It argues NOTHING, it gives your position NOTHING, and it shows you as small minded, but wait, you are a Christian… never mind.

  17. on 04 Jul 2010 at 1:34 pm 17.Martin said …

    Oh, and Truth, you cut and paste really Purdy…. LOL

  18. on 04 Jul 2010 at 2:21 pm 18.Martin said …

    “on 02 Jul 2010 at 11:01 pm 2.Truth & Reality said.
    The first-century Roman Tacitus,”

    Ok, Tacitus was really a second century writer, not a first century writer. He made ONE obscure reference to Christus. Respected Christian scholar R. T. France, for example, does not believe that the Tacitus passage provides sufficient independent testimony for the existence of Jesus and agrees with G. A. Wells that the citation is of little value. Tacitus probably got his information second hand from Pliny the Younger.

    As for the rest of your citations, MOST of them, if not all, have actually been discounted by other noted Christian scholars. I stand by my assertion that there are NO first century accounts of an historical Jesus. I contend that there may have been a man named Jesus who was a Jewish Teacher, but there was NOT a Mystic named Jesus to whom we can attribute the magical works of the bible to. Just read Paul’s letters and accounts, in NONE does he mention Jesus as some magical man, but instead, treats Jesus as a great teacher.

  19. on 04 Jul 2010 at 2:24 pm 19.Martin said …

    “I would agree, except that the 12 had a first hand account. Sorry, your argument holds no water and my post still stands as fact. That is why I am here.”

    What 12 do you refer to, and what first hand account? Surely, you are NOT going to contend that the gospels were actually written by the disciples? You may as well make the contention that there was an actual flood, that man and dinosaurs lived together, and that Adam and Eve were actually historical figures.

  20. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:20 pm 20.Truth & Reality said …

    “If calling me names helps”

    Martin I never called you a name. I stated you “come across as”. A large difference. I sure you are very nice young man. You may continue to call me any name you like. It is OK.

    “What 12 do you refer to, and what first hand account? Surely, you are NOT going to contend that the gospels were actually written by the disciples?”

    The twelve disciples did all dies a martyrs death which they would not have done for a lie. It is recorded as my first post outlines. John was the only exception who was exiled to Patmos for the Gospel. My original post still stands as Truth.

    I did cut & paste and then posted the link. Attempting to divert attention from the facts by questioning my character? Truly shameful.

  21. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:43 pm 21.Martin said …

    First of all Truth, you called me son, I assure you I am not your son, nor am I that young of a man, but I appreciate your attempt at being funny.

    So, if I say, you come across as a dick head, then I am not insulting you? Wow, then you come across as a dick head, no offense intended.

    Again, what first hand account are you making reference to? The bible? I have never said that Jesus, the historical Jesus, did not exist, though I do contend that the Jesus born of a virgin, to whom miracles were atributed, and who rose from the Dead, is nothing more than a myth. A myth created to give Christianity “street creds” by early Christians. There are simply too many similarities to the Mythical Jesus and many, many other early deities.

    Further, early Christianity was nothing more than a loosely configured grouping of cults, which sprang up among other such cults of the time. If it had not been for the fourth century Nicean Conference, Christianity probably would NEVER have become the religion we see today. No one can dispute that the Nicean Council built the current belief system out of a hodge-podge of early Christian cults, and Pagan beliefs. Christianity stole so much of it’s belief from early pagans, the proof is there, many just refuse to accept it. I understand dogma as much as anyone.

    And, Truth, do you contend then that the earth is 6,000 years old, that the bible was divinely written, and that the gospels were written by the actual disciples of Jesus?

  22. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:48 pm 22.Martin said …

    “Attempting to divert attention from the facts by questioning my character?”

    What a typical come back from a Christian. You infer that I come across as “a pestiferous little twit,” and that is perfectly fine. When I say you come across as, “a typical, snotty, pompous, ignorant, Christian,” I am calling into question YOUR character. Wow, I don’t know why I am shocked, coming from a faith-head.

  23. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:51 pm 23.Martin said …

    It’s funny, you call into question my intelligence, you insult me with the “son” statement, you infer I come across as a a pestiferous little twit, then you step back in AWE that anyone would call into question YOUR character. My wife and I, both highly educated and both atheists by the way, are laughing so hard at you we are actually crying. Thank you, Truth, for the laugh, we needed it.

  24. on 04 Jul 2010 at 3:59 pm 24.Martin said …

    I’m sorry that I can’t seem to find the other “proofs” of you insult and name calling, but I recall it as something about me finishing HS, and then maybe going to college, and taking a religion class, without even so much as knowing anything about me or my past. This again, is the typical Christian entitlement mentality that comes across so readily in posts written by men with no real substance. Instead of attacking the person, why not try answering the questions, posing some questions, or maybe being man enough to accept critical comments to your own writings. Just a suggestion, since you “come across” as such a Faith-Head. No insult intended, of course.

  25. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:04 pm 25.Martin said …

    Recently, I was told by a Christian from another site, that “If I don’t like the way things are done in America, you know this Christian nation, I should leave.” Well, if you don’t like what is being posted on the “Atheist Website – forum,” you are free to leave. SMILE

    Another point I make is on Facebook, I was attacked by my so-called “friends” for posting my opinion there, on MY facebook page. I simply asked that they either not read it, or delete me as a friend. I lost two friends, one was my own daughter-in-law go figure, and the majority of my friends then commented that my opinions were indeed my own and valid. These are people of great faith who accept me as I am, and not one of them called me a twit.

  26. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:13 pm 26.Martin said …

    And finally, Truth, I ask you the same question I ask all Christians. Have you read anything written by an atheist?

    I recommend if you have not, that you read Dawkins’ “The God Delusion,” perhaps Dan Barker’s “Godless,” David Attenborough’s “Quest in Paradise,” Beit-Hallahami and Argyle’s “The Psychology of Religious Behavior, Belief, and Experience,” Blaker’s “The Fundamentals of Extremism, The Christian Right in America,” Ehrman’s “Lost Christianities, the Battle for Scriptures and Faith we never knew”

    Just to name a few, I have a complete listing if you want. You recommended I get an education, I recommed that you read something other than Right Winged Christian writings, just so you can understand both sides of your argument. See, I read the bible, I read a LOT of Christian works, I am not afraid of being converted to Belief, but I guess you are probably afraid of being de-converted from Belief.

    If I am wrong, then forgive me, as a Christian you can certainly understand that request, right?

  27. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:20 pm 27.Martin said …

    “It doesn’t work so well on adults though, which is why it rarely comes up except by those who think atheists are just rebellious teenagers as far as faith is concerned.”

    Then isn’t it funny that our friend Truth, came along and PROVED this very statement by attacking my writing style, my age, my education, and my personality. He acts as if I have never done any reading, any research, and that I am just a wayward teenager who should grow up and fall back into line with all the others, and just believe.

  28. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:28 pm 28.Charles said …

    Martin,

    Dude get a life! I am on your side but don’t you have anything to do? I can’t read any other post because you fill up the entire blog!

    Stay on topic and stop with he called me this I called him that garbage. You make all atheist look bad. That will save space and keep us from believing you both in middle school.

    Please!

  29. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:33 pm 29.Martin said …

    Charles, thank you for your opinion, now that you have posted it, so be it. Skip over what you don’t like, and how do I make atheists look bad, you don’t have a doctrine, we don’t follow the same ideals, my beliefs don’t reflect on you or any other atheist, why would it? That’s the beauty of atheism, it is based on individual beliefs, and individual ideals, so HOW do I make YOU look bad. Can’t you do that on your own?

  30. on 04 Jul 2010 at 4:36 pm 30.Martin said …

    “Dude get a life! I am on your side but don’t you have anything to do?”

    Actually, right now, I don’t have anything else to do. And, what I am doing is my business, and as an atheist you should appreciate that, besides, IF I don’t post you don’t have much to read do you?

    Peace dude, and chill, it’s a public forum, go find one that better fits YOUR needs. Peace.

  31. on 08 Jul 2010 at 8:12 pm 31.doubtertom said …

    “The twelve disciples did all dies a martyrs death which they would not have done for a lie. It is recorded as my first post outlines. John was the only exception who was exiled to Patmos for the Gospel. My original post still stands as Truth.”

    I’ve grappled with this in my personal search for truth, and find that this is simply not true. The apostles were not all martyrs. Only Peter (and Paul) have any early evidence that they were martyred, and that’s not very clear and is dated 198AD.

    Hippolytus (170-236AD) wrote of the fates of the apostles: John “fell asleep” in Ephesus, Matthew “fell asleep” in Hierees in Parthia, Jude “fell asleep” in Berytus, and Simon and Matthias “fell asleep” in Jerusalem. He thus indicates that they died naturally, not as martyrs.

    There’s more of this on my blog at http://doubtertom.blog.com/2010/06/30/christiananswers-net-questions-for-skeptics-pt-13.

    If you want to be an apologist, that’s admirable. That’s how I started. But you have to be accurate or you’re lying.

  32. on 11 Jul 2010 at 12:31 pm 32.truth said …

    Time is changing, coming new question about all the religions, and its pros and corn.Let us to see what will happen within 50 years.Then people will ask the muslims is it worth to go to heaven with 70
    girls, and christians how someone can born without father.Everything is living because western policies are so ugly they afraid to see and say the truth and so stupid they live in conflicts and create hittlers.When they interest they say otherwise they don’t act.Let us to see scientific progress and good scientist will make a good society where no false no hipocracy no racism no ugly crimes wll exists.

  33. on 11 Jul 2010 at 11:16 pm 33.qwyzl said …

    if christ existed, i’m pretty sure all we know of him is radically different from the man he actually was. funny how there’s no eleventh commandment which states – “thou shalt not alter the Word of God, such words as i have spoken unto thee and of which were recorded, according to my dictates, into this holy book”.

    and of course, people commit murders every day. some how the words of the commandments don’t seem to scare people into not murdering. so even if there was a rule about not changing the “Word of God”, i’m pretty sure that wouldn’t have deterred any one from doing it any way. although it does seem to me that if the “Word of God” were truly sacred and inviolable (hope i used that last word right), then we should have to day, the VERY FIRST AND ORIGINAL BIBLICAL WORK.

    wonder how god feels about all the tampering and changing around and omissions and additions of “His Word”… surely this should be punishable by stoning…

    i know this really has nothing to do with the question of how christ died, but this has been on my mind for a while. at least may be i added a bit of food for thought to the religious debate…

    qwyzl

  34. on 13 Jul 2010 at 12:13 am 34.John Mark said …

    To all of you who dispute that Jesus ever truly existed, I would offer some possible reasons for your position. Somewhere along the way, in your journey through life, some singular or group of terrible events must have happened to you. It is also possible they were made even worse by what you could have unfortunately witnessed in a church or done by those who attend. These ingredients, compounded lastly by a possible misunderstanding of who ultimately God is, and what He is all about, I would say justifies your position. However, a justification of this position, in itself, does not make you right in the end.
    I get it that God/Jesus is always “The Heavy,” when someone close to us dies of some horrific death, whether cancer, car accident etc. I get it when God/Jesus, seemingly does not come through for us when we have prayed hard for a great need for our life. And, I really get it when Christians act in ways that personally, I myself have said “If this is what God is all about, you can keep it.” But please think about this, wherever you may have gotten the notion that God is some kind of “Sugar Daddy,” there to hand over to you all and every request you make is at best inaccurate. Wherever you came up with the idea that you can disqualify God’s or Jesus Christ’s existence based on the actions of Christians or your perception of God’s/Jesus short comings in performing your requested magic act, is again, at best your feeble attempt to mask nothing more than an innate hatred toward God/Jesus for (In your mind) letting you down somewhere in life.
    Unfortunately, you may never get to know just exactly how many times God/Jesus has in fact intervened in your life, to spare it from complete disaster, perhaps without you being aware, letting you be early one day and if you had gone through a certain intersection just a few minutes later, you would have been killed in a car accident. Hypothetical, yes, impossible to prove, yes, complete nonsense, it is sad you think so. Yeah, but why are so many freaking rotten things happening all over the world? Simple answer, God is a Father no different than a man who is a father, except in this way, He will influence our lives with an action of some kind based on just a handful of criteria. Is our request selfish, does God know that ultimately there is a better way if we just trust Him, will God bail us out of trouble because we are truly sorry for what we may have done or if He did, would we continue and not give a flying flip about right or wrong.
    Humanity, in the big picture, is like God’s family/children. If you, as a parent, never had your child come to you for advise, but always went somewhere else, and often to a poor source for counsel, how quick would that get real old for you and P’s you off. If your kid(s) willfully and knowingly did things to get into trouble, how many times would you bail them out before you said enough is enough, but if you didn’t, do you not think they would get worse and worse?
    This world right now is quickly starting to resemble a big stinking toilet, not because of God/Jesus, but because of what we do to each other. Bottom line, it is sad and scary (for your final state) that you never bought into or learned to just trust God/Jesus really is the good guy on face value instead of doing everything you can to find some evidence to hate the one who, in fact, laid His life down for you. I’ll stop with this, if you and I were in Las Vegas as bookies placing bets and you placed yours on no such thing as Jesus, God, Hell etc and I placed mine on just the opposite, if I was wrong, what would I have really lost? I would say nothing. You, on the other hand, if you were wrong, what would you have lost? I’ve got some seriously bad news for you. No, hell will not be where you would be in the presence of friends or people you knew. No, it will not be a party or someplace that isn’t that bad. It will though be a place of never ending terror and pain that makes Saw 1-6 look like a day spa for puppies and kittens. You will not be able to die, you will have the same exact level of consciousness and awareness you possess right now to feel heat at such a temperature that it does not even give off light, there in fact will never again be anything that has light to it. You will be completely isolated from anyone in pure darkness.
    You best here this as well, straight from the bible, “It IS NOT God’s will that ANY should perish, but have everlasting life.” And “Hell was created for the devil and his angels.” NOT YOU. But, if you are so filled with hate that nothing of what I have said moves you at all, and you see me as a babbling idiot, fine. Just be forewarned, a day will come when you will remember reading this, and time, that will never be exhausted will be starring you in the face along with “YOUR CHOSEN DESTINATION and it sadly will be too late.”

  35. on 13 Jul 2010 at 2:30 am 35.Horatio said …

    John Mark,

    They don’t REALLY believe that. It is only another thought process recently brought about in order to discredit followers.

    When looking at history, listen to those closest to the events. The new could, might and maybes are no more than false hope.

  36. on 13 Jul 2010 at 4:34 am 36.A real-ist said …

    “Bottom line, it is sad and scary (for your final state) that you never bought into or learned to just trust God/Jesus really is the good guy on face value instead of doing everything you can to find some evidence to hate the one who, in fact, laid His life down for you.”

    Bought into and learn to just trust? Can you substitue “brainwash” there instead? How can someone hate something that doesn’t exist?

    “If you and I were in Las Vegas as bookies placing bets and you placed yours on no such thing as Jesus, God, Hell etc and I placed mine on just the opposite, if I was wrong, what would I have really lost? I would say nothing. You, on the other hand, if you were wrong, what would you have lost? I’ve got some seriously bad news for you.”

    First of all, isn’t God against gambling? Second of all, this isn’t a 50/50 flip a coin chance that God exists. There is no real evidence of God existing. What would you have lost in the bet? How about being able to use the mass amounts of time you spent in church and praying that you wasted to do actual fun activities such as drinking, going to strip clubs, etc. Not saying those are the only fun things, but I am just using those as great examples of life enjoyments that you are missing. What do I have to lose? Imaginary friends actually existing for real is a safe bet that it isn’t reality, so I am a guarantee winner. Jackpot!! ding, ding, ding!

  37. on 13 Jul 2010 at 11:21 am 37.Merlin said …

    “How about being able to use the mass amounts of time you spent in church and praying that you wasted to do actual fun activities such as drinking, going to strip clubs, etc.”

    Those are fun activities? Stip clubs? Christians can drink. Maybe you missed all the references to wine although God ask we not go into drunkenness. Pray done right is work but all things worth anything are work. Worshiping God is a blast so I would say you are missing out. I haven’t missed a thing.

  38. on 14 Jul 2010 at 1:30 am 38.A real-ist said …

    “Christians can drink. Maybe you missed all the references to wine although God ask we not go into drunkenness.”

    Having a drink and stopping before a buzz kicks in is not a blast.

    “Worshiping God is a blast so I would say you are missing out.”

    Yeah, I recall all those days growing up having a blast waking up early on Sundays so I could go sit in a church and daydream about how much time is left before I could get out of there. Now I can stay up late getting a buzz on Saturday nights and sleep in on Sundays. Hmmm….which is more fun? Maybe if the bible was re-written again so that Jesus had DC and Marvel superpowers it would be a blast to read. I guess the middle ages didn’t know that kind of fun yet when it wrote the bible.

  39. on 14 Jul 2010 at 1:58 am 39.A real-ist said …

    …….oh, and by the way….”Those are fun activities? Strip clubs?”

    Yes, strip clubs are fun. You ever been to one? Hot 19 year old girls of your choice grinding on your crotch while they are naked and sticking their tits in your face. Let’s see, going to church and sitting in a phew chanting like a cult to an imaginary friend where for 45 minutes you have to stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down….or sit in the champaign room with a naked girl grinding on you while your thingy goes up and then down, then up and then down…..What sounds like more fun? I think the latter one sounds like heaven to me.

    By the way, ever hear the song that goes, “In heaven there is no beer, that is why we drink it here…..” Good times.

  40. on 14 Jul 2010 at 7:02 pm 40.vette is fast said …

    What point is it being black if you cannot get sunburnt.

    Sent from my iPhone 4G

  41. on 24 Aug 2010 at 4:46 pm 41.lifestyle male model said …

    where can I oin the writer of this page ? yhanks for your énswer

Trackback This Post | Subscribe to the comments through RSS Feed

Leave a Reply