Feed on Posts or Comments 02 October 2014

Christianity Thomas on 24 Mar 2010 12:36 am

Why would anyone believe in a “god” whose church is so disgusting?

Why would anyone believe in a “god” whose church is so disgusting? Look at this article:

Catholicism in Peril

As Germany–the pope’s own homeland–continues to be rocked by allegations of priestly abuse, many are wondering how high the scandal will go–after all, Pope Benedict XVI himself, as archbishop of Munich, approved an abuser’s therapy treatment without reporting it to authorities, though he claims not to have known about the abuse. Meanwhile, the pope’s attempt to put out a similar fire in Ireland with a letter this past weekend is stirring mixed reactions.

If there actually were a God, why would he stand by silently as all of this crap happened in his own church? Obviously he would not. It is the easiest way to see that God is imaginary.

Someone will pull out the old “free will” excuse. But you can’t have it both ways: God cannot both “respect free will” and “answer prayers”. If he intervenes to answer prayers, then he would also intervene to eliminate crap in his church.

Someone else will say, “The Christian God doesn’t answer prayers.” That is both a contradiction of the Bible and a contradiction of the beliefs of billions of Christians. It also means God does not interact with our universe, meaning that he is imaginary.

If you are a Christian and you are tired of all the crap in your religion, try reading: Whywontgodhealamputees.com . Give up your imaginary God and join reality. You will be glad you did.

85 Responses to “Why would anyone believe in a “god” whose church is so disgusting?”

  1. on 24 Mar 2010 at 9:30 pm 1.Biff said …

    “Why would anyone believe in a “god” whose church is so disgusting?”

    Very simple. It is not His church and the wolves have been exposed. God is truly at work again.

  2. on 24 Mar 2010 at 9:50 pm 2.Anonymous said …

    Your an idiot

  3. on 24 Mar 2010 at 10:09 pm 3.Biff said …

    You meant to say

    “You’re an idiot” or
    “You are an idiot” one would presume?

    In any event, ad hominem attacks are pointless and show the limits of your intellect.

  4. on 25 Mar 2010 at 12:25 am 4.Questioner said …

    > God is truly at work again.

    Except that God is like 40 years late. Why is that?

  5. on 25 Mar 2010 at 2:16 am 5.kosmofilo said …

    You might like to know about abuses and crimes in other denominations too.

  6. on 25 Mar 2010 at 1:35 pm 6.MrQ said …

    An Omnimax god has no excuse, Biff.

    He knows all, is all powerful, and sees all (past/present/future). So one could argue that your god knew the abuse was going to happen and then chose to do nothing to help those defenceless children. You’re right, god is truly at work again and as such condones abuse by his representatives in his churches.

  7. on 25 Mar 2010 at 2:33 pm 7.Biff said …

    “So one could argue that your god knew the abuse was going to happen and then chose to do nothing to help those defenceless children.”

    They could argue it, but they would be wrong. God commanded man not to committ such atrocities. You have a choice.

    You know that there will be children in Hati who will starve today. You could fly down there and feed them but you will not because your house/car and your own pleasure is more important. I would argue YOU are responsible for the death of those children.

  8. on 25 Mar 2010 at 3:09 pm 8.MrQ said …

    So, Biff, it stands to reason that god knew about and in fact, by not preventing it, created the earthquake. God chose to go to bed before it happened, and you say it’s all my fault? Wow!!!

    When your Omnimax god committed this act, he/she knew exactly what was going to happen. As a matter of fact, god also knew that I and billions of others would not fly down to Haiti and instead we would opt to continue to enjoy our lives as we know them. Yet he allowed this preventable tragedy, and all the suffering that followed.

    You see, Biff, I have NO choice and neither do you or anyone else. God knows exactly how we all behave and will continue to behave. Free will is ONLY possible when NOBODY knows the outcome of our actions, god included. So for you to get on your high horse and tell everyone that we need to fly down to Haiti, it just sounds very godly and commanding – kind of like you want to guilt trip me and the rest of humanity into acting the way you want.

  9. on 25 Mar 2010 at 3:25 pm 9.Disciple said …

    “Only a perverse generation seeks signs and wonders”…..”Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God”

    He came and He will come again and that is really all that matters.

    For the imaginary decieved, ask yourself, are you really willing to find out the consequences if you are wrong? Not me. And if I am wrong we’ll all still be at the same place. But if what I know is to be right and truth, then you will not be in the same place.

  10. on 25 Mar 2010 at 3:56 pm 10.MrQ said …

    @Disciple

    Hope you placed your bet on the right pony ;-)

  11. on 25 Mar 2010 at 4:13 pm 11.Disciple said …

    10.MrQ

    It’s not a bet, but rather a peace that surpasses all understanding.

  12. on 25 Mar 2010 at 4:24 pm 12.MrQ said …

    @Disciple

    But you risk being smote by the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s noodly appendage ;-)

  13. on 25 Mar 2010 at 4:26 pm 13.Disciple said …

    MrQ

    Not me.

  14. on 25 Mar 2010 at 6:59 pm 14.Biff said …

    “Free will is ONLY possible when NOBODY knows the outcome of our actions, god included”

    Um, no it comes by giving you a choice in the actions you will take. You got’em now do the right thing!

    “for you to get on your high horse and tell everyone that we need to fly down to Haiti”

    Its called a example Q. If you feel guilty that is on you. Many religious groups down there, but as far as I could see not atheist groups. Just an observation. Why is that Q?

    I have bet on a pony which means I have a shot at winning. Actually, by the grace of God I do win. Well, at least I can do no worse than you will do, you know, the ones who bet on nothing.

  15. on 25 Mar 2010 at 7:19 pm 15.MrQ said …

    -“Free will is ONLY possible when NOBODY knows the outcome of our actions, god included”

    -Um, no it comes by giving you a choice in the actions you will take. You got’em now do the right thing!

    um, yeah. The big g knows ALL -Knew that I would reply to you, knows how many plops I’ll deposit in the porcelain bowl tomorrow, knew of the defenceless alterboys, knew how many would suffer and die in Haiti, etc, etc.

    God knows ALL – and if everyone’s future actions are known by someone/something then those actions/events/outcomes are predestined.

    But no sense in discussing this with you, one of blind faith. There is a real danger of your beliefs dissolving like a rice cracker in a river of reason; that is if you think too much. Just keep believing, Biff, no harm in that.

  16. on 25 Mar 2010 at 7:25 pm 16.MrQ said …

    “Well, at least I can do no worse than you will do, you know, the ones who bet on nothing.”

    Do you know how the Flying Spaghetti Monster deals with those who jump on the bandwagon too early and chose the wrong pony? I would not wanna be you buddy when His noodly appendage smites you.

  17. on 25 Mar 2010 at 7:44 pm 17.Biff said …

    “I would not wanna be you buddy when His noodly appendage smites you.”

    SluRp, burp, Ah! No worry my xenophobic friend, I just ate him!

    Way to let that reason take control slick! So is FSM YOUR hope for salvation or is the dirt nap more of a reason to hope in a fulfilling eternity?

  18. on 25 Mar 2010 at 8:01 pm 18.MrQ said …

    FSM is the ONLY reason we are here. It created the world, the universe, you, me, everything. And now you just made him angry with your flippant, petulant, and irreverent comment. May you choke on your next meal of his gracious goodness. ;-)

    Keep the faith, sounds like someone is trying hard to keep from thinking too much. And is doing a mighty fine job of it.

  19. on 25 Mar 2010 at 9:50 pm 19.MrQ said …

    Hey Biff, see the quoted material below. Looks like we’ll both be eating haggis and lutefish (two foods clearly from hell) beside the lake of fire for our eternities.
    BTW, I am not going to have a “dirt nap” and will get myself cremated instead- in preparation, of course, for my eternity. I suggest you do likewise. Just gotta decide if I want to go with well done or medium.
    I wonder if it’s too late to become a Zoro – gotta go look for a sword.

    “I am a Zoroastorian. I want to tell you about Ahura Mazda. Ahura Mazda is the one true God that started all other religions. All other religions come from Him but they are all corrupted and evil now except the original. There is a heaven and a hell. Please my fellow christians and muslims and jews, come back to the real religion and turn away from your false religion.
    If you do not, you will burn forever in a fire pit with all your false prophets and atheists.
    Just say, “All glories to Ahura Mazda the most perfect and the most truthfull” and you will be given mercy on judgement day.”

  20. on 26 Mar 2010 at 1:20 am 20.Biff said …

    Q,
    You are a mess slick. First you are atheist, then FSMist and now Zoroastorian. How could anyone take you seriously when you can’t make a decision? At lease FSM makes for some good eating!

    And Thanks bro, but my life here and my life after this is set and they are both outstanding! Why would I ever want to give up my incredibly blessed life to become an atheist? God is real enough to me and I can only pray you can see the light as well.

    Good luck with pasta and zoro but recognize there is a great deal more to life than what you pick up with the 5 senses.

    Late!

  21. on 26 Mar 2010 at 2:01 am 21.A real-ist said …

    Biff- “my life here and my life after this is set and they are both outstanding! Why would I ever want to give up my incredibly blessed life to become an atheist?”

    There is only one life, and you are living it. No one every said you had to give it up to be an Athiest. In fact, being an Athiest just means you realize that life on earth is precious because it is the only one we have. There is no make believe after life. If you think there is one, then why don’t you think there was a before life that is similar to the after life then? Also, why don’t you believe in the multiple number of virgins you will get when you die just like another religion truly believes? Is that because you think that is silly? Well, that is what Athiests think of all religions. You must be an Athiest of that religion then?

  22. on 26 Mar 2010 at 2:04 am 22.MrQ said …

    Whatever biffyboy/girl.
    You know I am just having some fun with you. No reason trying logic on one as delusional as you. Keep the faith, it means you just gotta bend over and take it as it comes, kinda like one of those alterboys.
    See you and everyone else in hell, that’s where we’ll all end up. Oh wait, I am an atheist ;-), there is no hell. My bad.

  23. on 26 Mar 2010 at 2:09 am 23.A real-ist said …

    Right on, MrQ.

    And if hell is where all the alcohol and slutty woman are, then bring me there! :)

    By the way Biff, look up “faith” in the dictionary and here is what you get: “firm belief in something for which there is no proof”.

  24. on 26 Mar 2010 at 4:03 am 24.MrQ said …

    “God is real enough to me and I can only pray you can see the light as well.”

    God, the one you see and believe in, is real enough for you but not for me and billions of others. Maybe you’re a lone wolf with your faith. Maybe you’re part of a larger cult/branch/sect/denomination, but rest assured the beliefs and practices, even within the sub-sets of practitioners, are as varied as the individuals. That means that some of them are not getting it right; Leading the unwary and, perhaps, ignorant person of faith towards the highway to hell rather than the stairway to heaven….kinda tells you where the traffic is, don’t it?

    Pray for me if you would like, it’s really a wasted effort. I would suggest, however, that you concentrate your prayer efforts to satan’s salvation. Like you and, **ahem cough cough**, me (for demonstration purposes only), god also created satan. God, being an all-mighty and all-seeing chap, knew that satan would lead to evil (or is it money that leads to evil, damn I always forget) and really mess things up for us humans with his temptations and contracts and what not. Now if satan, through your prayer efforts, sees the light and joins the good guys then we will have heaven on Earth. We can rejoice and you, Biff, will be a real hero.

  25. on 26 Mar 2010 at 11:51 am 25.Biff said …

    “You must be an Athiest of that religion then?”

    LOL, huh? You guys are entertaining if nothing else.

    Yes Q, God created the angel Lucifier and he rebelled. Ah, no Lucifier’s final destination has been determined. Once again, God makes free-will creatures not puppets.
    You guys seem to like the puppet idea. Stop being a puppet and return to your maker who you know deep inside created you.

    Oh, it is “the love of money that leads to evil”. You almost had it. Amazing how the Bible is Right On again!

    These is billions of you Q? EH, I don’t think so unless you throw in the Buddhist with you. R U a sect of Buddha or is Buddha a sect of athesim?

  26. on 26 Mar 2010 at 11:54 am 26.Biff said …

    “Whatever biffyboy/girl.”

    Translation: I have no come back for that.

    I know Q, I know. You can have it to Q.

  27. on 26 Mar 2010 at 1:31 pm 27.MrQ said …

    Biff,
    I bow to your superior intellect. Only rarely have I come across an individual so capable of weaving the realm of fantasy into their “real” life. Actually I see it whenever I communicate with most xtians, just thought I’d give you a brief moment to feel good about your flaccid arguments. Keep it up…. remember, it’s faith, it does not need to make any sense.

    But I did note a small crack in your delusional machinations – you seem to admit that your god is not so great and powerful after all when you state “Lucifier’s final destination has been determined”. Are you saying your god is not all seeing and knowing (omniscient) after all? It is an omnilite god, not an omnimax one? Careful, you’re giving away god’s power for free and will likely end up in hell for doing so.

  28. on 26 Mar 2010 at 3:49 pm 28.BradshawMALLORY31 said …

    When you are in a not good position and have no cash to go out from that, you will need to take the loans. Because it should aid you emphatically. I take car loan every time I need and feel myself great just because of it.

  29. on 26 Mar 2010 at 5:21 pm 29.Biff said …

    “Careful, you’re giving away god’s power for free and will likely end up in hell for doing so.”

    I thought the atheist knew the Bible already? They quote scripture enough lol. How can I, Biff, give away God’s power away? And when did atheist start believing Lucifier is a human being? Strange Q, strange….psst, he is a fallen angel.

    “An individual so capable of weaving the realm of fantasy”

    Ironic, I have always viewed atheist as the dream-weavers. You know, matter popping into existence and with enough time and luck life forming in campbell’s chicken noodle soup all by pure chance all by itself no less. I have seen it in cartoons, but never took it as reality. Whatever floats your boat in the chicken soup my Qish little friend!

    “Only rarely have I come across an individual so capable of weaving the realm of fantasy into their “real” life.”

    You must be stuck in your mother’s basement. Get out more. 90% of Americans believe in God! You my Qish little friend are the oddity.

  30. on 26 Mar 2010 at 6:36 pm 30.Observer said …

    Biffy- You are such a tosser. It is hilarious to read your pompous and spectacularly foolish writing. I am even more delighted you have the temerity to criticize someone’s writing when you come up with howlers like this:

    “Ironic, I have always viewed atheist as the dream-weavers. You know, matter popping into existence and with enough time and luck life forming in campbell’s chicken noodle soup all by pure chance all by itself no less. I have seen it in cartoons, but never took it as reality. Whatever floats your boat in the chicken soup my Qish little friend!”

    That is not the stuff of a competent high school freshman, let alone someone as self-described “educated” as yourself! (I am referring to the nearly meaningless MBA you claim.)

    As an aside readers, do you ever wonder what kind of dolt Wall Street folks have been preying on to sell various toxic waste products? Simpleton clowns like Biff are the fellows who have been getting bent over and reamed. Although, I doubt our self-exalted Biff could find anyone foolish enough to give him enough dough to do real damage.

    Biffy, you are a simpleton. What does “90% of Americans believe in God!” show? I would bet 90% of Americans eat fast food. People will eat fast-food garbage, like Chik-fil-A (or however the crackers spell it) and McDonald’s, because it is cheap, “tasty”, and filling. It is also phenomenally unhealthy. Garbage philosophies and religions like theism and Christianity are analogous to junk-food in that it is cheap, and fills a psychological need for security in a decidedly not secure world. Christianity is a blight on mankind in the same way.

  31. on 26 Mar 2010 at 7:21 pm 31.MrQ said …

    Biff,
    I detect a lot of thread drift here. Look way up and see the title of our thread: Why would anyone believe in a “god” whose church is so disgusting? Something about abuse of alterboys, scandals, coverups, the church (like god) is a product of man.
    It’s hard for me to type since my 11 month old son is either sleeping (like right now) or playing in my arms when I compose these missives. He goes by MrQ2 and is also an atheist. Hey, so is my wife and other two kids. A house of atheists, imagine that.

    You sure jump to a lot of conclusions there Biffy. Like I am xenophobic and living in my mom’s basement. Mom’s been dead for 29 years. I am an immigrant to the country I presently reside in, so I am not sure how xenophobia fits in. Wow, you provide about as much insight to my life as your imaginary skydaddy does. Maybe god sends you to hell for being such a doofus.

    About your numbers: 90% in USA being stupid. See links below; it’s not as high as you think.

    http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/p/christiantoday.htm
    33% of the world’s population is considered to be Christian.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tren.htm
    53% of Americans consider religions to be very important in their lives. This compares with 16% in Britain, 14% in France and 13% in Germany.

    Your brand of slack jawed yokel world vision is in the minority. But it’s OK, they created the Special Olympics just for you.

  32. on 26 Mar 2010 at 7:33 pm 32.Biff said …

    Q, don’t get so hot slick.

    Remember “You know I am just having some fun with you. No reason trying logic on one as delusional as you.” You dish it out but you can’t take it Q?

    Don’t take it so hard being part of such a small minority. It was obvious you are a young fella, but one day reality will set in for you. I raised 3 boys and 3 girls and have a wonderful wife and we are all theist. Imagine that!

    I’m not sure what you wanted to portray with your world population statistics. I referred to Americans. The point being guys like you feel insecure in your beliefs and would rather paint the huge majority to be delusional. But hey, if it makes you feel better.

    As for the original thread, its is not my church or even my denomination. So there you go….

    Good luck to you and your family.

    Late!

  33. on 26 Mar 2010 at 7:46 pm 33.MrQ said …

    Imagine that. You don’t need religion and can still be happy and productive. Who knew?

    As for reality setting in, it already has and is always re-affirmed by communications with the likes of you ;-) . Thanks.

  34. on 27 Mar 2010 at 12:12 am 34.A real-ist said …

    Biff, at least 90% of humans believed the earth was flat way back when. Look how that turned out. But weren’t they in the majority? The world must still be flat then. My point is, it is easy to trick a mass of people into believing or thinking something is true. Your percentage of believers is also shrinking by the minute. I bet you in not too many years from now the majority will be non-believers. That is because we are living in 2010, not the middle ages when the bible was written by man who had the education of the middle ages. Another good example in the shrinking religious system is that the number of priests are dying off. They are hurting to recruit new ones and now have to use one priest for many different churches. I know that for a fact because my uncle is a priest and he says that is what is happening. There are more Athiests out there than you think, Biff. The majority of them just don’t admit to it or make a point of it publicly. I see more and more that will come out of the weeds in the future. Just wait and see. :)

  35. on 27 Mar 2010 at 12:41 am 35.Boz said …

    “at least 90% of humans believed the earth was flat way back when. Look how that turned out. But weren’t they in the majority?”

    Egad, the same old worn out examples. 90% also believe in gravity. So are you attempting to claim gravity is false? Terrible analogy. The fact a majority believe does not mean it is not true.

    “Your percentage of believers is also shrinking by the minute.”

    False, 3000 people each day in China alone are becoming Christian. Other parts of the world report similar and or even higher. When you include all faiths, the number is much higher. You are wrong again. But if theist become a minority will it make theism true?

  36. on 27 Mar 2010 at 2:46 am 36.A real-ist said …

    Boz, you missed the point entirely. The point was that a mass majority believed something was true when it was then later proven to be false. Read it again. Where do you get the idea that I meant if a majority believes in something it must not be true for everything? Of course that would be stupid if I meant that for everything including gravity. Duh. I was pointing out that it does and can happen on some things, which believing in a God is one of those examples.

    Also, are those people in China turning from Athiest to Christian? I was comparing religious to non-religous, not switching from religion to another religion. Please read carefully, because you are taking everying I say and turning it into something else. And do realize that some of the things I am saying are sarcastic to make a point, which the discussion comes from previous responses (see above).

  37. on 27 Mar 2010 at 11:42 am 37.Boz said …

    “Duh. I was pointing out that it does and can happen on some things, which believing in a God is one of those examples.”

    Sure it does, and vice-versa as well. OK, we have proven the earth is not flat, so I’ll keep this simple for you. (No sarcasm intended). Prove to all of us once and for all there is no God, Deity, etc exists. Then we can all move on. Thanks

  38. on 27 Mar 2010 at 3:42 pm 38.A real-ist said …

    Boz, I’ll make it simplle for you since you are the one claiming God, Deity, etc exists. Prove they exist. Since there is no proof, I seem to be more right then. Don’t we agree that if something isn’t proven to exist then the chance is in more of the favor it doesn’t exist? If God all of a sudden comes down from his heaven and starts talking to us where we can hear and see him at the same time, then that would actually be proof. He seems to be powerful enough he could do it in the present. The only claim someone like you can make is that it says in the bible he did way back when. But I have news for you, the bible was created by man and they can put what ever they want in it. In fact, the bible from its original form has been edited quite a bit. Why would it need to be edited if it is truly God’s word? Also, what is the point of even having life on earth then we when can just be born into heaven’s eternity from the beginning? What makes us humans more special than any other living thing? We are chemical reactions that can think, breathe, and feel just like other living things. Why don’t they get to go to your heaven? That isn’t fair. The point is we are just like all other living things, just because we are the smartest of them all doesn’t make it so we have a sole and get eternal life once we die. Truly think things through.

  39. on 27 Mar 2010 at 4:14 pm 39.Brandi said …

    I’m not even sure if this is the right blog to post it in but I’m so infuriated. I just watched that video on Shirley Phelps.. That is so disgusting. And her website?! What is this world coming to?

  40. on 27 Mar 2010 at 4:56 pm 40.Boz said …

    “since you are the one claiming God, Deity, etc exists. Prove they exist”

    No, I never claimed I could prove it. You are mistaken or you just flat out lie. You however claimed there was NO GOD. SO put your money where your mouth is.

    “Don’t we agree that if something isn’t proven to exist then the chance is in more of the favor it doesn’t exist?”

    Well, no since man discovers new things every decade we knew nothing about. Man actually know very little. I see it everyday.

    Oh, and don’t deflect the discussion to the Bible. We are discussing you claim “there is no God”.

  41. on 27 Mar 2010 at 5:23 pm 41.A real-ist said …

    You just don’t get it. My claim that there is no God is based on that there is no real proof of existance. Something doesn’t exist until there is proof of existance. I used the bible as an example, because most believers point to the bible as proof of existence, when that really isn’t proof. When people claim something exists, don’t ask people that think it isn’t true to prove it isn’t when the people that claim it is true can’t even prove it is. Does that make sense? It is the people that claim something is true that needs to prove it is true. Not the other way around. That is why I say if something isn’t proven to be true, then the chance is in the favor it isn’t true.

  42. on 27 Mar 2010 at 5:33 pm 42.A real-ist said …

    Another thing I want to point out is that you say new things are being discovered all the time so we can’t count anything out as not being real. So I guess that means we can’t tell kids that monsters or the boogie man can’t appear in their bedroom because we can’t prove they don’t exist, even though there is no proof they exist. Get the idea?

  43. on 27 Mar 2010 at 7:03 pm 43.A real-ist said …

    And maybe I should point out more of the meaning behind if something isn’t proven to exist then chances are it doesn’t exist. The “chance” part of it refers to a scale. The more outlandish of a claim something is, the more chance it doesn’t exist. When one claims there is a God, that is probably one of if not the most outlandish claim one can make, so it is more on the end of the scale closer to that it doesn’t really exist. Yeah, there are things out there that were once thought of not to exist and were later proven to. But those things were not as outlandish and had a better chance of existing when thought not. My whole point on this whole thing about the existance of God or not is that even if there is a .001% chance of a God existing, why are people acting as if there is one or even that there is a 50% chance of one, when really it is less than 1% probably closer to 0%. When something is that close to 0 for existing, it is hard to claim a God is out there, right? The whole big picture has to be compared when trying to reason with people and that is all I have been trying to do.

  44. on 27 Mar 2010 at 7:34 pm 44.Boz said …

    So you are indeed admitting you made a claim you cannot back up? I claim God exists and that he created the universe. Now, you would claim it created itself. Prove your claim is more substantial than mine.

    BTW, your numbers are bogus. God has much written and much support in his existence by a wide variety of individuals for millenniums. The fact that someone claims FSM exists is NOT even close to be the same that God exists. FSM has no history, written record or eyewitnesses. Therefore the chance of God’s existence is much greater because of the number of individuals from a wide variety of backgrounds who support the existence. I cannot prove the existence of Shalmaneser III other than through the written record. No one denies he existed to my knowledge.

  45. on 27 Mar 2010 at 9:56 pm 45.A real-ist said …

    I never said I am admitting a claim I cannot back up? No proof = No existance until proven otherwise. That is all that is need to be said. And if you read earlier in the post, just because many people believed something along time ago and wrote it in a book doesn’t mean it is true. People want to believe in a God because they want to think there is another purpose for them on Earth, that is why a wide variety of backgrounds can create an illusion that is similar to each others. That is all it is. And the claim about you not being able to prove the existence of someone who lived a while ago and comparing that to the existence of a God that is not even human is totally different. Humans prove to exist, Gods who live in a different realm don’t prove to exist. An example is that Jesus may have been a human being that existed, but this doesn’t mean he was the son of a God. And yes, the universe had to start somewhere (Big Bang Theory), and scientists are still figuring it all out, but this doesn’t mean a God had to create it. Who created God then? And why would he need to create a universe if he existed before it was created? I’ll go back to what I said before – a very tiny chance something could exist, and I mean very tiny, doesn’t make it exist and with that small chance people shouldn’t be basing it on that it probably is or even think it is true. Gods were created throughout history to expalin things that were unexplainable. For example, the Sun God and the God of Thunder, but those were because at that time those people didn’t know what the sun was or how thunder was created. We do now and that is why those Gods don’t exist anymore. Once we figure out how the universe was created, then the one God that is left will not exist in peoples minds anymnore either.

  46. on 28 Mar 2010 at 11:56 am 46.Boz said …

    “People want to believe in a God because they want to think there is another purpose for them on Earth”

    Can you prove this?

    “scientists are still figuring it all out, but this doesn’t mean a God had to create it.”

    Uh, huh, so you have faith man is up to the task here? Something that happened 4.5 billion years ago they can reveal what happened while they can’t tell me why a young lady is dieing at one of the finest hospitals in the world.

    “Who created God then? And why would he need to create a universe if he existed before it was created?”

    It is more logical for an infinite being to exist that an infinite universe. I have listened to atheist propose the universe has always been. He created a universe to reveal His glory. Its in the Bible.

    “Gods were created throughout history to expalin things that were unexplainable.”

    Uh, huh and fake science has been proposed into order to gain fame. It has been exposed but you have not stop believing in science have you?

    The universe is proof for you of God’s existence. Man will never be able to reveal how it was done since it only happened once. What would constitute proof of God in your mind? I have asked atheist this before as well and it usually reveals why God does not bother.

  47. on 28 Mar 2010 at 6:33 pm 47.A real-ist said …

    “It is more logical for an infinite being to exist that an infinite universe.”

    Really? Prove it. For one thing, that doesn’t make sense. The universe is a physical state where as a being is a mental state based on chemical reactions from the physical state. Mental state cannot exsist without a physical state. So to claim a God created the univers; who created his realm then? Another God? And if a God did create the universe, then why is there so much wasted space in it if he created it to reveal his glory? And why would there be a need to reveal his glory? Is he trying to impress some Godess? LOL And there you go saying it says so in the bible that he created it to reveal his glory. The bible proves nothing since it was created by man and therefore has no relevant proof.

    “fake science has been proposed into order to gain fame.”

    So that means all real science is thrown out the window because of possibly a few instances that may have happened. Science as a whole is based on proofs, religion is based on faith which means believing something without proof. I think I would rely in proofs before I would non-proofs, wouldn’t that make sense? And you don’t think anything in religion is fake? Wow.

  48. on 28 Mar 2010 at 7:47 pm 48.Boz said …

    “where as a being is a mental state based on chemical reactions from the physical state”

    Really? A God that is eternal and can create is a mental being with physical properties. Nah, I don’t thin so. Nope, matter must have been created and since matter cannot create itself from nothing a deity is the most logical option.

    See now you go off half-cocked about throwing science out the window. Does science have something better? No, it does not. Then you throw in religion. You cannot stay on topic.

    Again, what would proof of God look like for you? You dodged that one.

  49. on 28 Mar 2010 at 8:48 pm 49.A real-ist said …

    What would proof of God look like for me? Maybe if you remembered what I put a few postings ago you would have my answer. Here it is again:
    “If God all of a sudden comes down from his heaven and starts talking to us where we can hear and see him at the same time, then that would actually be proof.”

    You just don’t get anything I am saying, do you? Science is based on proof, religion is not. And how is that not staying on topic? Science vs religion on proving God’s existence has been our main topic all along, hasn’t it?

  50. on 29 Mar 2010 at 1:32 am 50.Boz said …

    “If God all of a sudden comes down from his heaven and starts talking to us where we can hear and see him at the same time, then that would actually be proof.”

    He did, witnessed by thousands and written about in the most popular and greatest selling book ever. It just doesn’t seem to be proof for you. Why do you think you could view God in any other realm?

    You brought religion in to the discussion not me. I don’t consider the mode of creation to be religion.

    Maybe science is in the realm of religion here? It doesn’t know but they tell us they will one day?

  51. on 29 Mar 2010 at 4:50 pm 51.Marcus said …

    Boz – the bible is as much proof that god exists as House At Pooh Corner is proof that talking bears, piglets and donkeys exist. They were both written by people – and in the case of the former, by iron-age people who couldn’t explain rainfall let alone the mysteries of life, the universe and everything. Works of fiction both.

  52. on 29 Mar 2010 at 6:00 pm 52.Boz said …

    So you don’t believe in Socrates, Aristotle or anything else written by the ancients? It is all lies and fairy tales? The Bible remains because it remains accurate. That is why it is the largest seller ever.

    Every generation believes themselves to be the pinnacle of knowledge. Just imagine the foolishness of atheism a couple hundred years from now.

  53. on 29 Mar 2010 at 9:24 pm 53.Marcus said …

    I can’t actually figure out what point you are trying to make here, Boz. Are you asking do I believe that people like Aristotle existed?

    If so, then yes of course I do as there is overwhelming evidence from contemporary sources which corroborates that those people actually lived and breathed (It is well documented, for example, that Aristotle was a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great).

    If, however, you are asking do I believe what they wrote, then I really don’t understand what you’re on about at all as it isn’t a question of ‘believing’. Aristotle’s works covered many subjects, including physics, metaphysics, logic, rhetoric, politics, government, ethics, biology, zoology and so on, and you could, if you wished, try to pick holes in the logic of his thinking. But that would be a logical and/or philosophical argument rather than a question of ‘belief’.

    Yet belief is all you have got when it comes to the bible. For example, you say the bible “remains because it remains accurate”. Really? Prove it’s accurate! Go on, show me one scrap of evidence. You believe it is so, but you simply cannot substantiate such a claim because it is merely a matter of conjecture on your behalf. You either choose to believe it is accurate in spite of the fact that there is no validation, or you choose not to believe. Faith is, I’m afraid, as shallow as that, and logic can’t be applied.

    As for atheism being seen as foolish in a couple of hundred years time, I can only say that in my opinion it will, thankfully, have sidelined religion well before then. But that is speculation. What I know right here and now, however, is that people who blindly believe in some supernatural being in the sky without a shred of proof to substantiate his existence are, to my mind, the ones who already look pretty dumb.

  54. on 29 Mar 2010 at 10:11 pm 54.Boz said …

    “Really? Prove it’s accurate! Go on, show me one scrap of evidence”

    All of it. Prove me wrong. It is all there for the review so show me where the Bible is wrong. (Happy surfing as you look for the websites) :).

    So you believe Socrates existed although all we have is a written record? I have 66 books including loads of other contemporary writings that states God exists. Seriously, pick any one who wrote about God over thousands of years. Many more than wrote about Socrates! Our universe is impossible without God and in the end that is compelling evidence in itself.

    You sure those men were not just making up the existence of Socrates:).

    Believe me, Christianity is going no where. You need to review your Roman history and just accept the fact. We have had you guys wanting to kill us off for millenniums!

  55. on 30 Mar 2010 at 2:18 am 55.A real-ist said …

    Boz, you believe in a book which has talking animals, wizards, witches, demons, sticks turning into snakes, food falling from the sky, people walking on water, and all sorts of magical, absurd, and primitive stories. Is there an instance of those things happening in present day? Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived. It is a book of lies and contradictions.
    Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Twilight have been very popular books in present time. Does this mean that wizards, vampires, werewolves, and a maagic ring that can give you powers can exist? Or how about this, do you believe King Arthur and the knights of the round table really existed? That has been a popular story for a long time and many people think he existed even though there is no proof other than the possiblity that many different real stories were intertwined into one make believe one. Just like the story of Jesus, there have been similar stories just like him before he even existed. So don’t you think the bible could just be many stories exagerted put together into a single book and people from the dark ages were gullable to believe it and people are just still gullable to this day?

    And you are comparing proving a human that existed a while back to a being that you or I or anyone alive has ever seen? You do realize that humans exist since we are one, so one would assume it is possible to prove another one existed. Get the idea?

    Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense.

  56. on 30 Mar 2010 at 2:58 am 56.MrQ said …

    Sorry to interrupt, but I have a question for Boz.
    What version(s) of the bible do you refer to when you write “The Bible remains because it remains accurate.” ?
    Also, do you believe that the bible is literally the truth; ie: Noah’s ark, Jonah and the whale, etc?
    Ok, that’s it from me. Carry on.

  57. on 30 Mar 2010 at 8:48 am 57.Marcus said …

    Honestly, Boz, your troll debating tactics are as tedious and immature as they are utterly, mind-numbingly predictable. You are the one with the high and mighty beliefs – the burden of proof lies with you, my friend. Not me.

    So, I’ll ask you again: show me one scrap of evidence for your claims.

    Put up or shut up, Boz. Put up or shut up.

  58. on 30 Mar 2010 at 1:04 pm 58.Boz said …

    “Is there an instance of those things happening in present day?”

    Some of it. But there is no instance of matter popping into existence today either. It only happened once right?

    “Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived. It is a book of lies and contradictions.”

    Really? And you understand what this “proper” method would be I assume? Then why didn’t you give an instance of the “lies” that are perpetuated in the book?

    “Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Twilight have been very popular books in present time.”
    OK, so was Jaws in the 70s. Nobody claiming the Jaws is real either. Do you have a point here?

    “So don’t you think the bible could just be many stories exagerted put together into a single book and people from the dark ages were gullable to believe it and people are just still gullable to this day?”

    No, for someone who knows the “proper” way to read the Bible you should know better. The OT has a scarlet there running through the entire testament pointing to Christ. The run is consistent and complimentary as proven by the 330 prophecies of Christ. PS: The Bible want written during the Dark Ages :)

    And you are comparing proving a human that existed a while back to a being that you or I or anyone alive has ever seen?

    Actually yes since so many in you belief system argues that Jesus never existed. Get the idea?

    “the burden of proof lies with you, my friend. Not me.”

    (sigh), again YOU made the claim. You have the burden which you have done little to fulfill. You are suppose to be proving your claim, do it Nike!

  59. on 30 Mar 2010 at 1:20 pm 59.Marcus said …

    Boz. Try NOT taking drugs before you write your next post and let’s see if it makes any more sense. Because right now I haven’t got the vaguest idea what you are on about.

  60. on 30 Mar 2010 at 1:34 pm 60.Observer said …

    Boz-

    “Is there an instance of those things happening in present day?”

    Some of it. But there is no instance of matter popping into existence today either. It only happened once right? ”

    Thank you Boz for your usual entertaining writing. Who needs the Onion when folks like you are in the world?

    As for matter being created. It happens as a matter of course in physics labs. When was the last time you looked at, if ever, the Periodic Table of the Elements? If you understand what you are looking at, there are several elements which are man made. The list goes on and on.

    I think it would behoove Xtians to start following Neuroscience a bit more. It is eradicating religious foundations daily. Some of the latest includes this: researchers at MIT ( For Xtians out there, that is one of the top research schools/institutes in the world and a den of “Satanic” worship in that they actually do fundamental science. The school has no religion in its history. ) have found that people’s moral judgement can be influenced by applying a magnetic field to the head (I believe it was the right side behind the ear). The magnetic field changes the electrical behavior of the brain, its function, and the person’s perceptions and belief regarding morals. (This area had previously been identified with moral judgement using brain scans. ) To paraphrase one of the researchers, “This is demonstrates what was attributed as a “soul” was in fact an organic function of the brain.”

    The clock is ticking Xtians. Maybe, someday, and soon, there will be a pill for what ails you. Better yet, WE can put it in the water with FLOURIDE!! ( or Tater Tots, or Velveeta, or Mountain Dew, get the picture. )

  61. on 30 Mar 2010 at 3:27 pm 61.Boz said …

    Its OK Marcus, you have no idea what you were attempting to write about.

    Man-made elements Observer? Imagine, a designer, a process and end product but it does have the aid of an intelligent being. You strengthen my point….your intention? However there wasn’t a man to create matter from the Big Bang. So it must have been…….

    I don’t know why you blather on about neuroscience. Goggled your quote but it wasn’t unavailable. I would greatly desire to see how you have spun the conclusions.

    Sorry but my son has just been accepted to Emory along with Penn and Duke. How the xtians can make it in these institutions is dumbfounding.:)

  62. on 30 Mar 2010 at 3:45 pm 62.Observer said …

    Boz-

    http://web.mit.edu/press/2010/moral-control.html I believe the paraphrase came from Marc Hauser. You can look on npr.org for the sound bite.

    You should google instead of goggle. Congrats on your son’s success. That is something to be justly proud. Send him to Penn. Get him out of the nut-job South. Give him a chance of truly elevating himself.

  63. on 30 Mar 2010 at 3:56 pm 63.Marcus said …

    Boz. I gave you the chance to substantiate your claims. Which I notice you have failed once again to do in any way, shape or form. (No surprises there though, eh.)

    Now get on with your homework and stop making such an arse of yourself.

  64. on 30 Mar 2010 at 4:26 pm 64.Boz said …

    You article is about effecting moral judgment. It has nothing to do with the existence of a soul. Wow, what a streeeetttccchhhhh.

    “Get him out of the nut-job South. Give him a chance of truly elevating himself.”

    You are a racist bigot. I am from the North and your kind are an embarrassment to all Americans.

    Alas, I am guilty of a typo…..the tragedy.

    __________________________________________________

    Marcus, I hoped you learned you lesson. Don’t make claims you cannot support. Nice try in spinning you inability to provide your proof.

    We are done. Time is too precious for this banter.

  65. on 30 Mar 2010 at 4:37 pm 65.Marcus said …

    Ha!

    I’ve got to hand it to you, Boz. You are easily the most unintelligent, inarticulate person I have ever had the misfortune to debate with on message boards like this.

    Honestly, your attempts to put any kind of coherent argument together have been truly pathetic. And now you are running off because you can’t think of anything else to say.

    Stick to whittling sticks from now on.

  66. on 30 Mar 2010 at 5:20 pm 66.Observer said …

    Boz- Keep at it. You will get there. I think I wrote something regarding “Hauser” and “sound bite” on npr. Get the interview on npr.org. You did not read the article, neither have I; the print version is not yet out.

    Hell, here is the link for the interview. The soul comments were from Green at Harvard. Hauser is at Harvard too. Young, the lead author is at MIT.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=125304448&m=125319731

    The citation for the paper is here:

    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/recent

    You should read some of the papers on the website of Hauser’s lab.

    From the North like those hapless cretin Christian Revolutionaries rounded up by the FBI yesterday?

    Where do you get the racism?

    Vivat Marcus!

  67. on 31 Mar 2010 at 12:17 am 67.A real-ist said …

    “so many in you belief system argues that Jesus never existed.” – Bozo the clown

    Boz, we are not saying there wasn’t a Jewish carpenter named Jesus who may have influenced many stories in the bible; we are saying that this Jesus person has been exagerated into something more than just a normal human being. He may have had a home made remody that healed people when they had a head cold and people thought it was such a miracle that he must have magic powers associated with a God. That is all it is. Magic tricks that people from his time thought couldn’t be possible. He may have been a popular preacher, but nothing more than what any other preacher could accomplish. He was probably nailed to a wooden cross because his preaching got to be too outragious to some people and his followers exagerated his stories. I think I remember seeing somewhere that the bible wasn’t written until 100 years after he died. Stories could easily have been exagerated during that timeframe. Another story that I want to point out is of Noah’s Ark. Please tell me how he could have gathered two of every species around the world and then put them back where they came from once the flood was done?

    “We are done. Time is too precious for this banter.” – Boz

    Yes, I agree that time is too precious, since we don’t actually have an afterlife with eternal time like you do.
    Aww, don’t leave us yet. Unless you need the time to think things through more because you are starting to see our side and are having a debate in your own mind now. Don’t be too hard on those unused brain cells.

  68. on 31 Mar 2010 at 11:34 am 68.A real-ist said …

    Boz, read these current articles, they relate to our recent discussion on science and how the universe was formed. Try showing how this science is fake like you were claiming before that we cannot prove in science how the universe was formed:

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iFngOTfNSw21ce_26N1EzfTAXwRQD9EP74HO0

    http://www.timescolonist.com/technology/Smashing+start+Bang+science/2747003/story.html

    http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/geneva-atom-smasher-starts-journey-to-unlock-originuniverse/390259/

  69. on 01 Apr 2010 at 4:51 pm 69.mighty aphrodite said …

    The evil one and his minions rejoice when the Catholic Church or any Judeo Christian religion is infiltrated by those who wish to destroy religious institutions.

  70. on 01 Apr 2010 at 7:54 pm 70.Horatio said …

    “Marcus, I hoped you learned you lesson. Don’t make claims you cannot support.”

    It is amusing to see how often atheist claim God does not exist when in reality they absolutely no clue. despite all the numerous civilizations, writings and accounts throughout history they have determined that the possibility does not exist.

    I have encountered 3 young men this past week who claimed to be atheist and had no clue what they really believed. They are know reconsidering. They really had not thought things through at all. Its nothing more than a fad. There are only a few hardcore atheist out there imho.

  71. on 01 Apr 2010 at 9:56 pm 71.MrQ said …

    Speaking JUST for myself, I would say that the possibility for god’s existence does exist, but the evidence for him/her/it/them does NOT exist.
    As a matter of fact, there is a distinct possibility of the existence of numerous things. Take unicorns, faeries, and unsalted movie theatre popcorn, but there is NO evidence.
    But that’s what makes people religious. It’s called FAITH and does not depend on a shred of evidence. Those who MUST rely on evidence to support their FAITH are truly lost. Get over it, there was no ark; if you find one I will join you in the prayer room.

  72. on 01 Apr 2010 at 10:04 pm 72.MrQ said …

    Rereading the last post, it sounds kinda funny. I put the baby down now and have free hands. Be kind and allow me to change the opening sentence to:

    “Speaking JUST for myself, I would say that there is a possibility for god’s existence, but the evidence for him/her/it/them does NOT exist.”

    For those of you of faith, forgiveness is in your teachings ;-) .

  73. on 01 Apr 2010 at 10:31 pm 73.Horatio said …

    “For those of you of faith, forgiveness is in your teachings ;-”

    Its a shame you teachings don’t promote the same:).

    Its also a shame you have no idea what “evidence is in relation to God. No atheist can provide a honest accurate assessment. They expect a man, animal or mineral but when confronted with the reality that god cannot possibly be any of these things, they are completely and utterly lost.

    The probability of God in a universe as complex and of this massive size is more likely than not. Best to discover Him while you can.

  74. on 01 Apr 2010 at 10:40 pm 74.MrQ said …

    “Best to discover Him while you can.”

    I just love the threats. Keep up the good work, I am sure some of the sheeple will cave in with that one.
    In the meantime watch that a bolt from Thor’s fingertip doesn’t smack your ass for believing in the wrong set of gods. Allahu akhbar, as you folks say.

  75. on 01 Apr 2010 at 11:19 pm 75.MrQ said …

    “Its a shame you teachings don’t promote the same:)”

    You seem to know a lot about me. Or do you? Wondering where you get your information considering I have no clue who you are and am pretty sure you don’t know me either. I have been teaching my unbaptized kids the value of empathy without consideration of race, creed, colour. So my teachings could go deeper than you BELIEVE ;-)

    Keep the faith; I realize all YOU need is to believe. I am sure god is everywhere YOU look.

  76. on 01 Apr 2010 at 11:32 pm 76.A real-ist said …

    “The probability of God in a universe as complex and of this massive size is more likely than not. Best to discover Him while you can.”

    The universe is only complex to our perception. And of this massive size, then why is there so much wasted space? Why didn’t this supposed God create more Earth’s close enough where we can get from one to the other incase we screw one up with polution? Earth is very puny compared to the rest of the Universe. Why not make Earth bigger? Even humnas have taken ownership of most of all inhabital land. Why wouldn’t God use the space out there to create more useful planets?
    After these questions and with more questions out there similar, you really believe he is more likely than not? There is nothing, and I mean nothing out that that can exist with at least a half proof of a chance that it could. Since there is no actual proof, you can’t say the liklihood of something existing is more than 50% which is what you are claiming. It is probably more like 1%, which is pretty close to 0.

    And you claim to discover him while we can. Discovering means you actually have to see proof. If he comes to Earth and starts speaking where we can all hear him at once or video can record it if it is an isolated instance, or if he physically shows, then that would be proof. I would then believe. And it would have to be in the present, not 2000 years ago where myths in a book seem to make people think that is relevant proof.

    You know, I wish it were all true. It would be great to have an eternal life. But I like to live and look at things in reality, even though I know when I die that is it for me. Kind of scary, but reality. I used to be a believer. I was a Christian until I went to college. I prayed. Guess what, I never saw or heard Christ, things I prayed for never came to be. So when people like you say you have to believe in order to see and hear Christ, that is utterly BS. There is no differnce in reality from what I see now from then. I just don’t have to waste any time praying to an imaginary friend anymore. I sure love sleeping in on Sundays now! HaHa

  77. on 02 Apr 2010 at 12:33 am 77.Pepper said …

    “used to be a believer. I was a Christian until I went to college. I prayed. Guess what, I never saw or heard Christ, things I prayed for never came to be.”

    No such thing. You were only a Christian in name only. Many of those out there. You never had a relationship with Christ.

    Just how do you know all those huge stars and planets revolving the stars have no use? You know little about them. Give me a break. The size of the Universe declares the glory and awesomeness of God. If you had really been a Christian you would have know that from Psalm 19 and Romans 1.

  78. on 02 Apr 2010 at 2:38 am 78.A real-ist said …

    So you are saying only hardcore Christians are the only true Christians and are the only ones who can have a relationship with Christ? So you will only be “saved” if you breathe the bible 24/7 then? Wow. That just proves even more that religion is fake. The things believers make up in order to not have their belief proven wrong.
    You know nothing of what my beliefs were to be able to judge like that. I went through Confirmation as a Christian and truly believed and you say I couldn’t have because I couldn’t find my imaginary friend to be real? Transforming from a believer to a non-believer doesn’t happen over night. It took years of questioning things and see things for what they really were until I fully tranformed into an Athiest. One has to look at the possibility of that there could be a chance it is all fake and then look at the history of man and think of ways how myths could have been formed and relgion being used as a weapon to control others. Also, one has to look at the history of education and scientific advancements to think back on how they may have thought back then during those times along with their suroundings. Man has been very gullible in history and still is today. Look at the world’s governments. You can’t tell me everything they say is true. There are a lot of coverups. Now relate that back to the bible and think of how the bible could have been created by governments of that time to control and trick people. People were killing others at large rates and the government needed to control that. Also, people were afraid of dying and wanted comfort in their lives. Remember, back then man didn’t live as long as they do today. And another big thing is that man has always wanted to give their life more meaning that what it really is. So you see, there are many things one has to think about over and over before it sinks in the head that religion and God has just been formed by mankind over the years, especially since there is no real proof. The bible is just a book of myths and fabricated stories from 2000 years ago, that is all.

    “The size of the Universe declares the glory and awesomeness of God.”

    So does this mean Jesus had the biggest penis of all mankind? Too bad he couldn’t have enjoyed that otherwise he would have went to hell, right? LOL Sorry, there needs to be at least a little humor in these posts.

  79. on 02 Apr 2010 at 5:35 pm 79.Makarel said …

    testing 1, 2, wow love the discussions, this is pretty intense man, but its funny (or however you want to view it but) the arguments here do not solve the the underlying issue, why so much hatred between Christians and Athiests huh? One says this, the other says that, well – all are trying to prove who has the TRUTH and it can be rightly said that the the truth shall set you free.

    Questions:
    1. Truth shall you free from what? hmm?
    2. What do you define as truth?
    3. My truth can be define by some as a lie, I may find your truth a lie, THIS IS MADNESS, right?
    4. Do you know that arguments do not solve anything?
    5. Instead they just present your point. What is your POINT?

    Many have joined the debate, but have you ever thought about what you are saying (in this case, writing). I have seen families break apart from this issue, which is a pathetic issue!!!!!
    Do we even care about those that read and go to their families and then sides are taken on this BS issue? Creating divisions within families, communities and sad to add friends as well.
    Think people think, lives are in your hands!!

  80. on 02 Apr 2010 at 6:29 pm 80.Pepper said …

    __”So you will only be “saved” if you breathe the bible 24/7 then?”

    Notice how he exaggerates the meaning of previous point in attempt to make his assertion look viable.

    __”The things believers make up in order to not have their belief proven wrong.”

    Again, attempts to make it my opinion rather the opinion of God. Heb 6:4-6

    You can say you WERE a believer all you want, but in scripture a real Christian NEVER left the faith the parable of the sowers as told by Jesus (Mat 13) reveals what really happened to you. Judas thought he was a believer as well, but was not.

    You also have no humor. Your need to belittle Jesus again only shows you real allegiance. Maybe if I make fun or you mother and father you could see how silly you make yourself to be.

  81. on 02 Apr 2010 at 6:30 pm 81.Makarel said …

    I have Christian and Athiest friends who are viewing this blog with me and they find these arguments funny and hilarious. These comments are very comical but THEY DO NOT HELP each other.

    Go back to the top and start reading the comments, its not hard to see where attitudes govern the lives of people.

    To all those that have written in, do you have association with others from the other side? Not in mutual, but in personal relationships or even intimate relations?

    Well if you don’t, get one, coz we think you all need to get someone that has a different view. We may be particularly harsh on Christians though, because they should be doing this long before this comment :D
    Its better than exchanging cheap shots. Really, they are cheap shots for they do not change the attitudes or lifestyles of the other.
    This may be the next step in social maturity!lol.

  82. on 02 Apr 2010 at 9:36 pm 82.Lou said …

    MAk

    I have a suggestion. Don’t come back. No one is attempting to change another’s attitude or beliefs. It is a blog! We express opinions!

    You claim attitudes govern the lives of people? Really? How shocking! What’s next, politicians are political?

    You are not viewing this blog with Christian and atheist friends. You are probably some college kid in a dorm who claims to be an atheist. Get a life and stop telling bloggers how to behave.

  83. on 02 Apr 2010 at 11:33 pm 83.Makarel said …

    To Lou,
    Well aren’t Politicians political? If that is the cost to survive in politics, then one has to take it to survive out there. It is your attitude to survive that makes you and I and all the rest to write our opinions, yes/no? If not, then why? for the sake of opinion? Well,

    HOWEVER, My main focus is attitude, the way we THINK, the way we BEHAVE, the way we LIVE, the way we IDENTIFY ourselves, the way we SOCIALIZE as we are doing right now, THAT IS ATTITUDE. Look at at the big picture (seriously)

    Hey if you call me a kid, then you are a toddler(ITS NOT A JOKE), coz you clearly do not understand my points!
    There is a third view here and it is the view of the next generation. We do not really need tomorrow’s generation to venture through the same things we are discussing here? or do we?

    It is also our attitude to change, but yeah you are right, I do not share any common view with you lot, and I’d like to keep it that way.
    My close friend had a phrase, “Believe It Or Not I Care.” B.I.O.N.I.C.And I do, so do not think athiests have no hearts. And it is forced upon the likes of “dorm kids” to smash some sense into whatever you have left of that meaning. Coz i have no idea of what you meant by getting a life, this surely ain’t it.

  84. on 06 Apr 2010 at 1:11 am 84.meforgod said …

    Why would anyone believe in a god whose church is so discusting? Let me answer that question with a couple of my own.

    Why do people still send their young children to schools, knowing that there have been many cases where teachers were found guilty of child abuse?

    Why would parents enroll their children in organizations like the boy scouts, girl guides and organized sports even though there is a long history of child abuse with these types of organizations?

    Why do people of any religion still attend their church with the full knowledge that every church in existance have had to deal with child abuse issues?

    The answer is simple. We cannot allow a few bad apples to deter us from taking advantage of all the good that we derive from all these institutions.

    Catholisim is indeed in peril. But then so is our whole society and culture. The incidents of abuse in the Catholic church is identical to all other institutions; religious, secular or otherwise.

    God did not leave his church in the hands of angels, but in the hands of falible, imperfect humans with a free will.

    Free will is the one thing God will not tamper with. If we did not have that, we would be little more than obliging robots. Hardly a bases for a loving relationship. Surely, even a rational athiest can identify with that.

  85. on 06 Apr 2010 at 5:15 am 85.A real-ist said …

    “Free will is the one thing God will not tamper with.”

    Why do believers think that? Is it because it is a flaw in their belief system? Could it be that there actually is no God and we always had free will anyway?

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