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Christianity Thomas on 20 Dec 2009 09:44 pm

An excellent test that EVERY Christian should take

The test:

Religion 101: Final Exam

One example question:

4) One day while jogging in the park, you see a maniac with a butcher knife about to attack a six-year old girl. What should you do?

1. Grab the nearest rock and club the attacker
2. Call the police on your cell phone
3. Yell “POLICE!” and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner
4. Calmly walk away, because God works in mysterious ways, and what appears “evil” to our finite human mind, may in fact be part of a vaster plan in God’s infinite mind, so it’s best not to interfere

On this question, why should a human do anything if there really is an all-powerful man in the sky who has a plan for each one of us, and who has the power to save this child himself if it is his plan for the child to live?

25 Responses to “An excellent test that EVERY Christian should take”

  1. on 20 Dec 2009 at 11:39 pm 1.Jynx said …

    And thus the absurdity of the doctrine commonly referred to as “god’s plan”.

    The late George Carlin referenced this notion during one of his shows (“You Are All Diseased”) and I find his simple demonstration of it as thought-provoking as any.

    In his show, George Carlin makes a short but profound point: If god has a plan, and you pray for something that wasn’t originally in the plan, is it possible you will get it?

    If it is possible, then what is the point of god having a “plan”? Why have a plan if any shmuck with a two-dollar prayer book can just come along and change it?

    If it isn’t possible, why bother praying at all?

  2. on 21 Dec 2009 at 2:14 am 2.Ben said …

    3. Yell “POLICE!” and run toward the attacker in a threatening manner

    Because God has commanded me to love my neighbor as myself. That was easy! God’s plan includes me or he wouldn’t provide us with commands to live by. Even a child knows this.

    The problem when an atheist with no knowledge of scripture builds a doctrine out of a few hand-picked verses.

  3. on 21 Dec 2009 at 2:45 am 3.xtrain said …

    “God’s plan includes me or he wouldn’t provide us with commands to live by. Even a child knows this.”

    How do you know what God plans for you to do in any given situation?

  4. on 21 Dec 2009 at 10:30 pm 4.Joshua McGee said …

    Because God has commanded me to love my neighbor as myself.

    Wait — which one was your neighbor again?

    builds a doctrine out of a few hand-picked verses.

    If you’re going to commit to that one, we can do this. What I need you write is “I, Ben, never hand-pick scripture. I do everything the Bible commands.” Clear? So that we have somewhere to start, please note for the record if you have children, and if they have ever talked back to you; if you own anything in your wardrobe that’s a poly-cotton blend; and if you have ever eaten a cheeseburger.

  5. on 21 Dec 2009 at 10:45 pm 5.Joshua McGee said …

    I do everything the Bible commands.

    Oh, bother: if you’re one of those “The Law was overturned when God sacrificed himself to himself in order to allow himself to change a rule that He created so that He would not send you to hell” Christians, we can do this NT-style — but gods does that get tiring. If we’re going to end up in quagmires of Pauline doctrine vs. Gospel doctrine, the “Problem of Hebrews”, possible scribal insertion of genocide into Luke, ad nauseum, I’m gonna need a nap first.

    atheist with no knowledge of scripture

    You’re also gonna have to support that one — otherwise you’re just being a dick (“Howdy, Neighbor!”)

  6. on 21 Dec 2009 at 10:56 pm 6.TheAssassinWolf said …

    Ben is correct. Not that I’m a Christian, but it’s stupid to think that a Christian would stand by and just let shit happen.

    Why are Atheist so stuck on the nuts of the theory that there is no account for human free will or human interaction in God’s plan. That makes me laugh.

    BTW, Joshua, u don’t have to follow everything in the bible 2 the T to also have the ability to stop a child from being murdered.

    That kind of extremest line of logic only applies to robots and crazy people. That’s like saying that if someone claims that they know how to drive, you then ask them if they follow every single traffic law in the handbook; like there can be no in between.

    Why can’t Ben follow the important things that God would want him to do, and let slide the little things like eating certain things. After all, it’s the human thing to do.

    Maybe your not human Joshua. Maybe why you posed it in such an extreme way, because you have the ability to be perfect yourself, as an Atheist.

  7. on 21 Dec 2009 at 11:18 pm 7.Torrie said …

    The idiot creationists will just tell you, of course you should interfere and help the child because GOD GAVE YOU FREE WILL. It all part of their delusional circular argument for their desert god.

    My biggest question is:

    Since I am born in the USA, christians say I am forced to believe in their desert god. Where is the logic!?

  8. on 21 Dec 2009 at 11:26 pm 8.Torrie said …

    TheAssassinWolf said …

    “Why are Atheist so stuck on the nuts of the theory”

    Because the theory (I use the term loosely, because it doesn’t meet the criteria of a scientific “theory”, is NUTS!

    Christians never read their bible or they would be Atheists.

    (2 Kings 2)
    23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them

    (Exodus 12)
    12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
    14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
    29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
    30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.

    (Jeremiah 2)
    29 Wherefore will ye plead with me? ye all have transgressed against me, saith the LORD.
    30 In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion.

    (Jeremiah 11)
    22 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, I will punish them: the young men shall die by the sword; their sons and their daughters shall die by famine:
    23 And there shall be no remnant of them: for I will bring evil upon the men of Anathoth, even the year of their visitation.

    (Hosea 10)
    13 Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.
    14 Therefore shall a tumult arise among thy people, and all thy fortresses shall be spoiled, as Shalman spoiled Betharbel in the day of battle: the mother was dashed in pieces upon her children.

    (Hosea 13)
    15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels.
    16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

    (Revelation 2)
    20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
    21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
    22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
    23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    (Hosea 9)
    9 They have deeply corrupted themselves, as in the days of Gibeah: therefore he will remember their iniquity, he will visit their sins.
    11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.
    12 Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!
    13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
    14 Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
    16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

    (2 Samuel 12)
    13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
    14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
    15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah’s wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.
    16 David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth.
    17 And the elders of his house arose, and went to him, to raise him up from the earth: but he would not, neither did he eat bread with them.
    18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?

  9. on 21 Dec 2009 at 11:30 pm 9.Joshua McGee said …

    Maybe your not human Joshua

    Nope, caught me. I’m a spell checker. You can see it in the way I know “your” from ‘you’re”.

    Why can’t Ben follow the important things that God would want him to do, and let slide the little things like eating certain things.

    Who gets to decide which ones are important, Wolf? Ben? What religionists always fail to grasp is if they “know” which are the “important” parts, they have already made their moral choices without the influence of a deity. Anything beyond that, it’s just selective justification. Thinking a Christian would allow a child to be murdered is a stretch, yes, but: a homosexual? An Arab? An abortion doctor? A blasphemer? Gets more complicated now, doesn’t it?

    Thing is, the principle holds: either one does everything “because the Bible told him to”, and he’s a scoundrel (seriously — killing children who talk back? WTF?) or he does only the things he wants the Bible to say, in which case he’s a hypocrite. In either case, I have no need for the Bible, and if the religionist would spare a moment of reflection, he would realize he also has no need. He “already knows” what’s “right”, right? Otherwise, how can he tell what parts of the Bible are “important”?

    BTW, Joshua, u don’t have to follow everything in the bible 2 the T to also have the ability to stop a child from being murdered.

    First rational thing you’ve said, despite the laziness in not typing out your words. For instance: I don’t do anything just because the Bible tells me to, and I would stop a child from being murdered. The difference is, I am doing so for a good reason, and Ben is doing so for a lousy reason.

    That makes me laugh.

    Yeah. Gonna join you on this one. :-/

  10. on 21 Dec 2009 at 11:34 pm 10.Joshua McGee said …

    stupid to think that a Christian would stand by and just let shit happen.

    By the way — and the omission was because I thought it would be too obvious to mention — You. Missed. The. Point. Entirely. The argument is that a Christian would intervene, in contradiction to his laissez-faire attitude in other situations. Could you — like — read it again, dude?

  11. on 22 Dec 2009 at 3:16 am 11.Ben said …


    Buddy I’m not Jewish. Hope that clears up the cultural laws you are concerned I’m not following. You obviously have a very limited understanding of the OT, NT and the covenants provided by God so focus on the purpose of the thread.

    Try this, Why don’t you do as God has asked and love your neighbor as yourself? That might keep you from spending all your time evangelizing others with your belief system. You spending your time attempting to sell us on your belief system has yet to feed or clothe a single child.

    Just a little friendly advice.

  12. on 22 Dec 2009 at 10:15 am 12.TheGreatHairyOne said …

    Ben #11

    Does this ring a bell?

    5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Further, if you are in any way homophobic note that that specific law is in Leviticus, not the NT. You should be 100% supportive of gay rights.

  13. on 22 Dec 2009 at 2:51 pm 13.Ben said …

    From #12

    Ok, not sure what the point is suppose to be. Do you understand what you posted, who Jesus was talking to and the context? Have you read any of his teachings to the religious pharisees? Not even sure why you and Joshua would be so concerned about my life and what I should support but thanks?

    Why would I be afraid of a homosexual? Would you be referring to any particular homosexual?

  14. on 22 Dec 2009 at 9:28 pm 14.whatever said …

    You just have to love atheists that think being taught by fellow atheists makes them Bible scholars. Please do a little research on your own to discover what it is that we believers in Christ truly believe. Making uninformed assumptions concerning what we believe makes you look like fools. I know you’ll probably try quoting the scripture about not calling your brother an idiot, but it can clearly be seen by what I said that I wasn’t calling anyone names, just saying it makes you look like a fool (big difference between the two just to let you know).
    And please, if you are going to quote scripture about God’s judgment on man and on children, the least you could do is research the scripture references you quote, so you have a better understanding of what it is saying. Try finding a good Bible study, either on-line or in a bookstore/library, and form a truly educated opinion of the scripture. And if you are too lazy to do even that, shut up, for even fools look wise when they keep their uneducated opinions to themselves.

  15. on 22 Dec 2009 at 11:34 pm 15.Observer said …

    So, I am fairly well versed in the OT, but know very little of the paganized NT. Ben seems to assert that Torah, Leviticus in particular, can be totally disregarded, except for the bits which are taken up elsewhere in the NT. whatever, who rambles on but says nothing ( perhaps a professional clergyman? ) appears to believe himself an expert in Christian belief, which in and of itself is worthwhile since it is likely self-identified Christians will again set to slaughtering one another over doctrine as they have so often in the past, but I digress; can you, whatever, lay out what the rules are for the rest of us less educated, and no doubt less gifted?

    By the way, I have attended NT oriented Bible study out of curiosity and found it revolting: 1. There seems to be more than a whiff of cultish-ness with the true believers, wild eyes with an inability to string together rational thoughts. 2. Most of the people seem to equate a vulgar aspiring bourgeois sensibility with holiness/leading a good life. 3. It seems that either a low intelligence, intellectual laziness, or psychological hang-ups are a prerequisite for taking the stuff seriously.

    I am specifically addressing the Christians, when I ask, don’t you realize Christianity is really a popularized watered-down version of Judaism- sort of a “Judaism for Dummies With a Pagan Background”?

    Merry Xmas.

  16. on 23 Dec 2009 at 12:25 am 16.Joshua McGee said …

    . You spending your time attempting to sell us on your belief system has yet to feed or clothe a single child.

    Gah, dude. How exactly does religious belief clothe children? Just because atheists don’t say “I’m clothing this child in the name of atheism” — you see this, right? I give 20% of my income to charity. The difference between myself and a Christian who double-tithes is that I don’t hand out Bibles with my food and clothes.

    Do you understand what you posted, who Jesus was talking to and the context? Have you read any of his teachings to the religious pharisees?

    Try finding a good Bible study, either on-line or in a bookstore/library, and form a truly educated opinion of the scripture

    Well, yeah — to both of you: I’ve read the whole Bible, spent hundreds of hours in religious and Bible courses, was raised Christian, and considered myself devout for 20 years. I’ve done my homework, thanks. It doesn’t mean that I don’t find the book useless and hateful. Have you (either of you) attempted to understand secularism?

    Not even sure why you and Joshua would be so concerned about my life and what I should support but thanks?

    Um — back atcha? While I can support why I think addressing theistic beliefs is worthwhile: I admit, I am ceasing to care about what you specifically support. There’s little light being generated here.

  17. on 23 Dec 2009 at 12:31 am 17.Joshua McGee said …

    Try this, Why don’t you do as God has asked and love your neighbor as yourself?

    You’re basically asking why I don’t follow the rules that a being I believe to be imaginary allegedly gave to his genetic “chosen people” of which I’m not a member? And atheists are the weird ones? People get my respect when they earn my respect. This, by the way, is how it works with religious people too, but I’m willing to admit it.

  18. on 23 Dec 2009 at 12:35 am 18.Joshua McGee said …

    that specific law is in Leviticus

    … and the Ten Commandments are there, too. Ben remembers that when Jesus was asked which Commandment was most important, he responded “none of the above”, right?

  19. on 23 Dec 2009 at 12:35 am 19.Joshua McGee said …

    are there, too

    = OT

  20. on 23 Dec 2009 at 1:35 am 20.Ben said …

    You see Josh that is the difference in what I believe and what you believe. You only love your neighbor if they garner your respect the way you think you deserve it. You want your props.

    I really try to love all people because I see them as special created in the image of God. I don’t need to have my props to love and care for others. Sometimes I fail, no doubt, but that doesn’t keep me from working towards that end.

    How does religious beliefs clothe children? Well, Salvation Army, SBC along with a host of other religious charities living the commands of Christ.

    Christians are among the most generous people in the world. I know you hate them, but maybe you should take a look at the good the do and not attempt to force them to live like you. We are sorry giving a Bible with the aid really bothers you that much. However, I go overseas every year and they actually ask for them and love the gift. That is what really matters.

    Merry Christmas

  21. on 23 Dec 2009 at 4:39 pm 21.Severin said …

    Whatever #14
    “Please do a little research on your own to discover what it is that we believers in Christ truly believe.“

    Really, what is that you believers in Christ trully believe?
    You forget that CHRIST = GOD. The very same god who ordered masacres and children killings in the OT! The same god who tolerated selling someone’s daughters as sexual slaves.
    Christ = god (the very same one!) who ordered stoning of women which entered marriage as non-virgins. Etc, etc…..

    If Jesus is not god, the whole NT does not deserve more attention in eyes of christians than any other book (in my eyes it does not desrve attention anyway).
    If he is god, than he is the same monster as his „father“: he was NOT absent when god ordered mascres! HE WAS there, HE was god.
    Why god/Christ suddenly started to promote „love“ in the NT, I would not try to investigate, I leave it to you.

    Or, maybe, you believe in 3 gods, in which case you are not a christian.

  22. on 24 Dec 2009 at 6:37 am 22.TheGreatHairyOne said …

    Ben #13 & whatever #14,

    I know what christians believe in. They believe in whatever personally suits them at the time. There is absolutely no cohesion or consistency between christians, either at the church or doctrine level or even between individuals. I would bet any amount of money that if the two of you sat down and went through the bible together that you two would differ in your interpretation of scripture.

    If the bible was rational, if the bible was consistent and if the bible was actually reliable then we wouldn’t have the 20,000 different major churches in the world and the millions of sects, cults and splinter groups. I was at a catholic mass recently, and the priest there said some things that made me laugh. His interpretation was completely different to anything I had heard from a baptist, anglican or protestant.

    As for studying scripture – I have. I would again gamble any amount of money that I have a deeper understanding of the bible than you, whatever. Mostly because I’ve actually read it without blinkers on.

    Ben #20,

    We don’t hate you. LOL, that’s a delusion, really. And I’d like to see some evidence of your claim that christians are the “most generous”. The majority I have met are generally rude, horrible people that can’t wait for the nukes to fall so they can laugh at everyone who isn’t raptured.

  23. on 24 Dec 2009 at 1:54 pm 23.Ben said …

    You mean like the atheist with the many sects of Samkhya, Mimams, Buddhism, Jain, Unitarians(atheist sect) not to mention Life-Force atheist?

    Of course Christians disagree on some minor tenets but the basic tenets of the faith remain unaltered much like atheism claims no God but as seen above adds an entire host of other beliefs.

    “We don’t hate you”

    Who is we? Do you speak for all atheist including Joshua? However, there are atheist who hate christians and say so readily. Not much of a delusion when one states “I hate all Christians”.

    “I have a deeper understanding of the bible than you”

    I have no doubt that you do. I hope you have a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.

  24. on 27 Dec 2009 at 8:38 pm 24.Joshua McGee said …

    “We don’t hate you”

    I don’t hate you. I just don’t respect you.

    But, in the end, I tire of this. Let’s switch to money. I’d like your money, please. All of it. My address is:

    Joshua H. McGee
    80 W Sierra Madre Blvd # 391
    Sierra Madre CA 91024-2434

    This is in accord with Luke 6:30 (Remember that one? Words of Jesus: “Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.” You can’t judge me unworthy: my very asking is enough for you to give them to me. It’s specifically for people who don’t respect you: Luke 6:32. Gonna whitewash this one? Jesus surely couldn’t have meant this, right? Because it’s not comfortable for you to do, right?)

    If you don’t have any money, I’ll accept your computer. If you are typing on a public computer, I’ll take your coat. OK? We have a deal? I’d say “then we can establish that you’re not a hypocrite, and I’ll consider you worth talking to”; but, no, I’ll just have your money, and you aren’t supposed to ever ask me for it again. We good? I’ll accept a check.

  25. on 27 Dec 2009 at 8:58 pm 25.Joshua McGee said …

    (I will, by the way, give all of it to charity. Secular charity, to be sure, but really it’s none of your business what I do with your money. That idea’s not mine, it’s Jesus’.)

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