A theist asks: “If there is no God in any sense, what possible reason could you have for not killing yourself.”
Theist logic: “If there is no God in any sense, what possible reason could you have for not killing yourself. A simple question, to which i am absolutely confident you cannot present me an answer.”
The question is asked in this thread:
The theist expands: “It feels as if, becoming an athiest, you succomb to a life a no purpose. If i, and all other are only to eventually fade into non-existence, why should i care about them, or further still, why should i care about me. From your perspective, i believe, its a choice between false security, and the bitter truth. Somewhat like the matrix, blue pill or red pill? (i forget which is which). I guess atheists took the pill the winds up in the real word. But, compared to the luxuries of the matrix, it kind of sucks dosent it? You tell me.”
The answers are interesting. Here are several harvested from the thread:
This attitude pisses me off like nought else. So you’re telling me that unless there is a supreme being of infinite power and intelligence, possibly one whose arse I must kiss for the whole of my (possibly eternal) existence, my life is meaningless and I should kill myself?
I only have one life. I value it more than anything else. It’s brief, but it’s precious and can be very wonderful. I have family, I have friends; many of whom would be very hurt if I were to disappear, especially by my own hand. I want to enjoy the things I love–art, music, games. I even enjoy those grey and rainy Sundays because even those will be gone forever one day. There are so many reasons not to kill yourself.
If you are an atheist, then you understand completely that this is the ONLY life we get. You understand that after you die, there is most likely nothingness. Existence ends right then and there. So the atheist has to come to terms with that and understand that something, is always better than nothing. An atheist lives their life knowing that this is all we KNOW we get. So we value it much more than any Christian ever could.
If you believe in God, however, then you believe you have another life after this one. And you know that the other life is going to be infinite and full of greatness with no pain, no death, no suffering. You have something to look forward to that is way better than this life, and all it takes is the stopping of your heart. So I ask you, WTF are you waiting for? Go out and kill yourself so you can get to that next life. This one is so full of terrible, awful, baby eating atheists, what keeps you here? What is your “purpose” for being here that supercedes God’s ultimate purpose for you in the kingdom of heaven? Giving glory to God? So your purpose is to be a cheerleader for a fictitious supreme being? Nuts. Just nuts.
In life, the things atheists live for are real. Family, friends, love, entertainment, learning, and so much more. Do you find those to be bad reasons to choose life over death? Do you place no value on those things? Do you find those things not worth living for? The difference is that we choose to live our life without the belief in something for which there is no evidence. It seems to me, you are saying the only thing in this world that is actually worth living for is your God. Well, I hate to break this to you, but that’s really, really sad.
So tell me again, why you think you have more to live for? My wife and kids should be home any minute from the gym. What better thing to live for than seeing them every day?
Unlike people who don’t believe in an afterlife, we know that this is the only opportunity we get. That makes it valuable beyond measure. Whereas you christians believe this this is merely a blinking of the eyes, and that the world is going to end soon anyway making life cheap beyond measure.
I’m sure my fiance would miss me. I don’t want to him to be sad. The reason is because I have feelings for those around me who I love.
You make your own purpose, just because one day I will die and be forgotten does not mean I wish to slit my throat and die. Christians believe they will live forever in a magical kingdom where their every want is granted.
It is the religious who should be looking for death, because it is they who think this world is meaningless, a test.
I came from nothing, I’m going back to nothing, why would I throw away the precious time I have on this planet?
Here is the flaw in that:
1) Your argument essentially says that unless one can “live” for eternity there is no point in living.
2) But what IS living in eternity? Well, it says nothing about TODAY. Living for eternity means exactly that you KNOW you will be alive tomorrow. The only thing that is different between someone who can die at any time and someone who will live for eternity is that the second person KNOWS he will be alive tomorrow. It’s the only difference.
3) Thus, what you are saying is that you can’t have meaning as you exist TODAY, unless you know you’ll be alive TOMORROW. But if the only MEANING in being alive today is the KNOWLEDGE that you will be alive tomorrow–then…what you really….”want” is somehow always something that you will “have” TOMORROW and never TODAY.
The idea that Monday can only be meaningful if you know you will be alive Tuesday is inherently absurd. Indeed, for most thoughtful people, knowing they would be dead tomorrow would make today quite a meaningful one indeed!
Unless you believe you will be presented with 72 willing perpetual virgins in heaven, why bother having sex or love now?
Unless you know you will never get divorced, why bother getting married?
Unless you know that your child will live a long and healthy life, why bother having a child?
Think of a prisoner in prison for life. He thinks of escape. If he could somehow KNOW that all his attempts to escape would fail it WOULD be pointless to keep trying them, of course. But would it be pointless to try to make friends with others? To try to be kind to others who were suffering, who he might be able help? To help a friend who he knew was innocent get a better lawyer? To work in the kitchen and think of better recipes, etc., so the food was more enjoyable? To read books with amazing stories or great insights?
But the more direct answer to your question is simply the experience of atheists. Do you REALLY believe that being in love, seeing their children born and grow and be happy, accomplishing a difficult or meaningful task, seeing the beauty of nature, or the advancement of human knowledge and works; that these things bring no meaning or satisfaction to atheists?
You’re just completely wrong, and that doesn’t require argument, debate, or logic. It’s discoverable directly from observation.
I visited Rapture Ready yesterday to read the buzz about the new EU President. One thread consisted mostly of Christians wishing this life to end so they could go live with Jesus in heaven. They stated repeatedly that they couldn’t wait until Jesus came back to reclaim his children because they were tired of this world. They also talked about how they had the same rapture conversation last year before the holidays and couldn’t understand why he hadn’t come back yet.
I think this mentality is very sad indeed. They are wasting their life waiting for an event that will never happen. They will grow old wishing their live away waiting for the godman to take them to paradise.
I don’t kill myself because I know that other people’s feelings would be hurt.
I don’t kill myself because it would achieve nothing positive for anyone, besides one or two theists, but why give them the pleasure?
I don’t kill myself because I don’t know enough yet: I still have questions and I don’t want to leave until I’ve got some good answers. Scientific ones, of course.
I don’t kill myself because I have no reason to.
I don’t kill myself because it’d probably hurt.
That enough for you?
12) From Chapter 27: When you die, you die
From the story in the previous section you can see that the idea of death is disturbing to children. Many adults never outgrow it, so death can also be disturbing to adults — even to adults with Ph.D.s. These adults, of course, are acting like children.
You are not a child. Imagining a place called “heaven” does not change the central fact about the chemical reactions that drive your cells. You simply need to grow up and face death like an adult, in the same way that you face other childhood traumas.
It is quite beneficial to see your mortality for what it is. A week or two from now, when you are thinking like an adult about death, the truth about death will begin to change your self-image and the way that you imagine the future. Religion and its concept of an afterlife skew your thinking by making you believe that you will live forever. You will not. You’ve got 70 or 80 years if you are lucky, and then you are gone forever.
At the simplest level, an understanding of your permanent mortality should help you to realize more clearly how precious your life is. If you live to be 82 years old, what you have is approximately 30,000 days of existence. You are not going to then commute to “heaven” to live for eternity. 30,000 days is all that you’ve got.
Here are some of the things in your thinking that will change once you understand and accept this simple fact:
* Your time on earth becomes much more precious to you.
* You begin to realize that everyone else’s life is just as precious, and you start looking at them differently.
* You think more about what you are leaving behind when you die.
* You think more about the human species as a continuum, with yourself as a part of that continuum, and you start thinking about the future of our species and the planet.
Like it or not, your total experience is here on earth. That realization should make you see a day wasted in line at the Department of Motor Vehicles, or a week wasted preparing your taxes for the IRS, a little differently. All that you have is 30,000 days. Everyone who wastes your time — every bureaucracy, every long line at the store — should give you pause.
When you die, what is your legacy? What do you leave behind?
* Whatever material objects you own, to be given to whomever you like in your will.
* Whatever contributions you have made to society as a whole. If you have done research into the cure for cancer, you leave that. If you have written books or made movies, you leave them. If you funded a building at your university, you leave that.
* Images of you in photographs and video, as well as any letters, writings or recordings.
* Your children and their memories of you.
* The memories you leave with your friends and family.
That’s it. Now that you understand that your death is final, you may look at those things in a different light.