why are you a fan of a mass-murderer?

1. I have no idea what afaik means. I am guessing it means “and for all I know”, but that does not fit grammatically, so I may be missing something in your statement.

2. The God of the entire bible – Old and New Covenants is a God of JUSTICE.

He says that the soul that sins shall surely die. The Bible is one complete statement of this God of Justice dealing with humanity over various dispensations.

For we gentiles in the current dispensation this is good news. Because Christ took the penalty for our sin (death) we have the benefits of his righteousness (life). The problem is, this grace is only extended as long as you have breath. Once you die you will be judged. If you have not given your life to Christ the deal ends there, and you will be outside of the grace of God for the rest of eternity.

The Jews have a seperate covenant with God. They are chosen by Him to bring forth the Messiah. The New Testament describes the Jewish predicament during this dispensation, that they have been blinded to the gospel until the fulness of the gentiles has come in. Then for a brief period the jewish dispensation will be resumed.

After that the bible makes reference to another dispensation.

3. The point of pretending that the bible wasn’t true was to demonstrate a fact that is pretty apparent to the unbiased mind.

The list was presented as a slight against christians.
It was presented by someone that believes that the event at number 15 never happened.
I pointed out that if you atheists are correct, as you believe you are, the flood never happened and the biggest mass murderers on the planet were infact atheists.

4. God saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth and wiped them out. If it is true, he has the right. He created the earth to be “very good”. He created us. We sinned. We rejected Him. We refused to obey Him. The responsibility falls to us.

If some other form of life mutated and turned the planet into a dung heap and God eradicated that life form would you complain?

The thing is He has promised that one day he will destroy the whole lot (roll it up like a scroll) with fire. Then He will create a new heavens and a new earth.

Then you said:
btw: mattstar, statements like “you are beneath me” lead me to think that you misunderstood one of the more likeable concepts of the bible:

thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Comments like “you are beneath me” don’t even begin to compare to the comments that engendered that opinion.

I fully understand the imperative to love my neigbour as myself. I also understand that I have many faults and weaknesses. However, loving my neighbour does not forbid me from making a realistic appraisal.

All you get is a little snapshot of my life, which is unfortunately taken from an unpleasant exchange with a highly offensive atheist.

I think given the garbage Mushy has thrown around I have shown a good deal of restraint.

Bye.

@mattstarrs:

“So let’s just for a moment say that the Bible isn’t true. That means we can take number 15 off the list because it apparently isn’t true. I shouldn’t get too many arguments there from anyone that doesn’t believe in the Bible.”

just pretending that the bible isn’t true doesnt explain why people who believe in the bible are fans of genocide. afaik the vengeful god is the god of the old testament, true, but the bible is supposed to be one complete statement and inseperable. that takes us back to the pre-flame-war original question:

why are you a fan of a mass-murderer?

btw: mattstar, statements like “you are beneath me” lead me to think that you misunderstood one of the more likeable concepts of the bible:

thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

bye.

Xians are less capable of understanding the world around us, since their ability to know how to go about that is faulty.

And although people should be respected to some degree, their unjustified beliefs do not have to be.

I think it can be safely assumed that it is in the nature of man to wonder, to be humbled by the awesome prospect of being–to live. For the most part, the typical Christian has extrapolated from the New and Old Testaments those aspects that may contribute most effectively to right-living. An example of such may include Jesus’ “Golden Rule,” which also happens to be a cornerstone of the works of Hillel and of Confucianism. This is a teaching of ethical value that may be conveyed quite simply and to great effect. In the West, the typical Christian has successfully compartmentalized those aspects of the New and Old Testaments that are of practical value from those that are largely irrelevant in our comparatively enlightened age. In this light, the impact of Christianity in the West may be perceived as benign.

Christianity can be perceived as a method that describes the basic criteria for right-living, facilitated by rich, tapestry-like tales of ancient kings, pharaohs, carpenters and young men with dazzling, rainbow-colored jackets. On this level, Christianity serves as an integral cultural cornerstone in the West, imparting to its adherents those values which will enable them to conduct themselves in a manner which visits the least harm on the most people. There are few leaders unaware of Christianity’s ability to achieve this end.

In so far as Christianity is able to impart these values and instill in its would-be adherents a sense of meaning, and an epistemological foundation that seeks to convey values that aim to impart a sense of ethicality, there is much to be appreciated in Christianity, regardless of its flavor.

The threat that is often perceived of Christianity by many atheists is its efficient ability to polarize people of different faiths. But the question remains, is it Christianity which polarizes differing faiths, or the presiding interpretations of those faiths which result in polarization? All men are concerned with meaning consciously rejects theism as he feels there are better and more efficiently realizable methods with which knowledge of the world can be gathered. The atheist’s method is very often aligned with the scientific method, whereas the Christian would seek knowledge by a more explicitly spiritual method, which is seen to be at odds with science and its aims.

But on a fundamental level, atheists and Christians alike are concerned with meaning, with immortality, with the fate of the soul, with all of those questions that were that arrived at the dawn of consciousness. Christians admire the tales of an extraordinary man that had transcended the iniquities visited upon the flesh and returned to convey to his fellow man the idea that indeed life is not in vain; that each being is not unloved; that the source from which he comes will be the great and future place to which he will return. This is rather beautiful, no? And it is largely the source of Christianity’s attraction.

The atheist is of a similar belief: there is more to life than meets the eye; that there is a method whereby which insights into the meaning of life can be had by virtue of a scientific method. That we seek answers implies that we value life. The Christian values life and would celebrate this fact by praising and esteeming the life of Christ; by performing rituals that simulate Christ’s pursuit of meaning. His gift was hope. Perhaps Jesus had spiritual tools at his disposal that were not standard-issue. If this is the case, naturally men on earth would seek to pursue the path of righteousness that Jesus prescribed in an effort to secure those spiritual tools. It is even within the realm of possibility that many Christians may come into possession of said tools; perhaps one day science will confirm this.

I wonder if it is wise to condemn the tools that man has at his disposal designed for the pursuit of meaning. Humankind needs meaning. Many atheists move of the reservation of faith because theirs is not a purely spiritual disposition; their disposition esteems a method that relies on matter and perceivable phenomena for insights into the meaning of life. This is a valid method. But it should not seek the invalidation of the spiritual method as its primary aim.

I am an atheist in so far as my own experiences, spiritual and otherwise, do not derive validation from the God of the Old Testament (God here referred to as the ineffable; that which is omniscient). I don’t perceive God as a singular entity. It is probably important to emphasize that few Christians in the 21st century perceive God as a singular entity either. The historical Jesus was interested in conveying to his disciples a method of living that would enable them to remain sensitive to their surroundings, accepting, open-minded; you do not find the fire and brimstone inflections from the Old Testament in the New. And more and more, I am of the opinion that atheists should temper their debates with the same sense of acceptance and open-mindedness. It is natural for the atheist to be intolerant of the man that would exploit Christianity for an end unrelated to spirituality and right-living. But by the same token, it seems atheism has been hijacked recently to serve the ends of an unprecedented war on spirituality, rather than devoting its energies to applied science.

There is so much about life that we do not understand. Both the Christian and atheist are keenly aware of this. And both the Christian and atheist would pursue those avenues that best enable them to enhance their understanding of the world. I don’t find much in the modern interpretation of Christianity that is intolerable. And given a short primer on atheism, I don’t think the average Christian would be hostile to atheism. They are two different methods of perception, one no less capable than the other. Each must be respected, as each is able to bear fruit and contribute to the quality of life led on earth.

Thomas Fahy

“That is ridiculous, and anyone in their right mind would laugh at you for such a claim. How old are you? You can’t be more than 18 or so.

1. Dear reader, did you laugh? If not you are not in your right mind by this morons logic. That is the kind of logic you need to be an atheist.

2. The claim is based on a simple mathematical equation that any 12 year old could perfom based on the data given at the initial post of this thread. Apparantly atheists can claim that religion is responsible for all of the problems in the world, but when they are shown convincingly that atheist too are responsible for some of those problems, the best they can do is dismiss the claim with empty rhetoric. That’s because atheism is a belief perpetuated by people that hate the truth. (I know, dear reader, that this is an outlandish claim, but I am making assumptions based on the evidence this simpleton is providing!).

3. It would appear that one of the irrational beliefs of atheism is that a persons age is an indicator of whether or not their arguments are valid. This is a type of bigotry called “AGEISM”. It has similar dynamics to the sexist bigotry that we have heard from this atheist also. I wonder if I included some inner city street slang you would question my race also? Wanna hear something funny? I know a 12 year old black girl that can out talk me: I can beat you in a game of wits: A 12 year old black girl can easily kick your butt in a debate.

And check this out for clutching at straws.

I found this bizzarre rant by an atheist which I confronted him on by saying:

You are beneath me.

If anyone wants to differ click on Mushinronjya’s name at the top of his posts and read his ridiculous, bigoted, sexist junk that he really believes. The stuff about birth control and child support is a stunner.

The lying atheist said:

“I would like to see what you mean by “bigoted”, since I have no such material on my site.
Sexist? Explain.

Oh wait, you’re only good at making assertions, and not backing them up.”

Now at first I thought he was merely denying that the content was sexist, but if you read it you would know that he simply could not defend that claim. So the sneaky little atheist made the content in question inaccessable to you and I and then denied that it existed. Atheists do this a lot when evidence is presented that proves that they may have a need to review their conclusions. I should have realised that Mushy is an atheist, therefore lying and decieving is better than admitting you made a mistake.

Any way, I made a mistake cos I thought he deleted it. When you or I go to his blog site now and pull up a compendium of all blogs the one in question does not appear to us. It has been reserved for “friends only”.

So I wrote:
“You deleted the sexist, bigoted stuff off of your Myspace site when I exposed it here and then posted a denial that it existed!!!!!!”

to which the dispicable atheist admitted that ater it was exposed he infact did make it inaccessable to you and I, although technically it is not deleted. Wow, talk about taking the moral high ground!!!! Check it out:

I have deleted nothing on my site. If you’re wondering about my post about child support, I decided to make it “friends only”, at my choice. I don’t deny that I wrote any blog.

Notice that he now admits that there was said material on the site, after previously saying “I have no such material on my site.”

He also makes this offer:

“If you’d like to go over what I’ve written, I’d gladly do so.”

But the blog itself (at the time of this writing) is still off limits to those of us that may disagree. What a liar! I thought you said you would gladly go over it? The only thing I get to go over is:

“This specific blog entry you’re trying to read is currently set to be viewable to the blog owner friends only.”

But that’s just the way atheists protect their beliefs, isn’t it!

This proposition is absurd. Please note the way that atheists lie and put words in the mouths of believers. Nowhere on this site will you find a quote from any Christian that supports that statement. Christians wouldn’t even be posting on this site if they objected to your right to question what they believe.”

You fail to understand what I’ve said. I didn’t say that a xian explicitly said, on this board, that you can’t question what they believe. It’s inferred from what I’ve written, by the standpoint taken I have expressed above. You don’t catch on very well.

“But as I have already demonstrated with the list at the top, which was supplied by one of your own, you atheists are responsible for about 3 times as many deaths as all the other mass murders mentioned combined.”

That is ridiculous, and anyone in their right mind would laugh at you for such a claim. How old are you? You can’t be more than 18 or so.

“No wonder so many religious people just switch off without even considering your arguments.”

Because they are incapable of debating.
Atheism has won a long, long time ago.

“You atheists are a dishonourable mob that don’t really care about truth or facts or reasoning.”

Yea, coming from a guy that thinks there’s a god because his arm got better. Real slick there.

“All this does is reinforce to Christians that discussions with atheists will not bring any reliable answers.”

They bring answers, you just want to see things your way without having think think you should use logic and reasoning.

I have deleted nothing on my site. If you’re wondering about my post about child support, I decided to make it “friends only”, at my choice. I don’t deny that I wrote any blog. If you’d like to go over what I’ve written, I’d gladly do so.

But you need to stop posting like a little 12 year old. It’s very annoying.

You need to grow up a bit, and think before you post on this board with your childishness.

I said:
“Pangolin has given solid reasoning for his beliefs.”

He said I said:
“You say someone with an imaginary friend backed up what they said with “solid evidence”, yet we all know he did not.”

You must acknowledge that if I being a Christian lied like that all the atheists would generalise this type of deceptive misinformation to all Christians.

Should I view atheism this way?

So void of substance that it’s proponents must lie to try and score points in a sloppy debate?

And how about this for an insight into the atheist world view:

Mushy said:
If you continue to support people to believe in imaginary friends, then you’re saying we cannot question the very thing they believe in. As long as we can’t question the very thing they believe in, they will continue to believe that there is some god somewhere telling them what to do through their stupid holy book. There is no other way to stop religious violence other than to get rid of the delusions entailed.

Let’s break that down a little. The first sentence claims that:
If you continue to support people to believe in imaginary friends, then you’re saying we cannot question the very thing they believe in.

This proposition is absurd. Please note the way that atheists lie and put words in the mouths of believers. Nowhere on this site will you find a quote from any Christian that supports that statement. Christians wouldn’t even be posting on this site if they objected to your right to question what they believe.

The next sentence says:
As long as we can’t question the very thing they believe in, they will continue to believe that there is some god somewhere telling them what to do through their stupid holy book.

This is an idiotic claim based on an unfounded claim made up by an atheist. Let me set your mind at rest – you atheists are not responsible for my faith. Before I was a Christian my atheist father questioned christianity and taught me about alternate theories (atheism). Since becoming a Christian I have been surrounded by atheists that have freely challenged my beliefs. No-one has ever been prevented from questioning the things I believe in.

Still I believe.

And then Mushy just launches into blind assault, ranting about religious violence, when he says:
There is no other way to stop religious violence other than to get rid of the delusions entailed.

But as I have already demonstrated with the list at the top, which was supplied by one of your own, you atheists are responsible for about 3 times as many deaths as all the other mass murders mentioned combined.

No wonder so many religious people just switch off without even considering your arguments.

You atheists are a dishonourable mob that don’t really care about truth or facts or reasoning. You lie and cover up to try and save yourself from losing face when it becomes apparent that you are wrong.

All this does is reinforce to Christians that discussions with atheists will not bring any reliable answers.

I get it. Sorry for being so slow, but the penny only just dropped.

Mushy Ted you are a JOKE!

You deleted the sexist, bigoted stuff off of your Myspace site when I exposed it here and then posted a denial that it existed!!!!!!

You are a complete loser!

Say what you want to others, but you and I both know it’s true!

Is this how you deal with all of your faults? LIE, CHEAT and DECIEVE!!!!

You are one messed up sociopathic individual.

I couldn’t give a rats about proving anything to you or about you because you are a liar!!!!

Did anybody else ever read the blog on Ted’s Myspace about how women shouldn’t be able to apply for child support ‘cos it’s their own fault they got pregnant, and if they didn’t want the baby they should have had an abortion?

That’s what you said, right Ted?

Someone back me up here. Please tell me someone else read it!

Let’s shame this pathetic loser out of this forum.

All you atheists, I know most of you came to your conclusions for intelligent reasons, but this guy has been posting as your rep. Is that how you wanna be represented?

Read his posts on this thread! Is this someone that you would choose for a spokesman?

He claims that there are a lots of you guys out there that agree with every word he says. Do you?

Would you say things like in the post he wrote above?

Please, restore my faith in reason.

He made his claims.

I found him out.

Then in order to decieve ALL OF US he deleted his myspace blog and wrote:

I’m glad you enjoy reading my myspace.
I would like to see what you mean by “bigoted”, since I have no such material on my site.
Sexist? Explain.

It doesn’t matter if you were or weren’t talking to me.
You’re in a public forum, Einstein.

He wrote that to decieve you and I and everyone else that wants to participate in an honest discussion.

Character is everything Mushy Ted. Yours is unacceptable for yet another reason.

I bet there has been a heck of a lot of material that you wouldliked to have gone back and deleted off of this site too!

Talk about a sore loser!

No wonder you can’t find a woman stupid enough to put up with you. You rave on about their religious beliefs being the obstacle but it is purely because you are a JERK!