I both agree with parts of this statement and disagree firmly with others. It is our nature, the nature of man, to seek answers. Why should god be any different, why does god get a pass on seeking his existence?

I believe that there are five levels of belief. 1. those who are 100 percent sure that god exists.
2. those who are less than 100 percent but more than 50 percent.
3.those who are fifty/fifty in their beliefs.
4. those who are less than 100 percent sure that a god does not exist, but greater than 50 percent sure.
5. those who are 100 percent sure that a god does not exist.

I fall in category number four, leaning toward number five. Atheists are not bad people, and most of us do not seek to convert anyone, we simply feel that religion and those who claim religion, often get an unfair pass on scrutiny. Those of us who do not believe are unfairly labeled, often with labels that reach some pretty ugly lows.

I have said it before and I think it is worth saying again, if your relationship with a god works for you, and it makes you happy and improves your life, then I have no right nor do I have any reason to wish you anything but the best. Am I allowed any less passion for my beliefs as you are for yours?

If I “attack” religion, particularly Christianity, but trust me I have problems with all four of the major religions of the world, is it not my right to do so both as a member of the human race, and protected in the US by the constitution. I only seek to apply the same strict and arduous standards to god as we apply to any standard in science, I believe that is only fair. When fantastic and unbelievable claims are made, and there are many in religion, I believe that asking why and seeking proof, is healthy.

In my mind everything has strictly natural cause.
I do not say I know them all, I do not say anyone know them all, but only natural causes are what know, recognize and count.”

Pleasure to meet you,

Natural causes are what you know? really, funny, because you seem to know alot of the Judeo-Christian God and mock His word. Are you sure you know of everything that is in your mind? In fact, you know that you don’t know that a natural cause does not have an explanation for occuring, or does you? You can only prove as far as Science can prove.

Pleasure to meet you!

I do not believe in any sort of god, neither I believe in any supernatural creature of any kind or supernatural events or supernatural causes of anything.
In my mind everything has strictly natural cause.
I do not say I know them all, I do not say anyone know them all, but only natural causes are what know, recognize and count.

First, Radio carbon dating is precise. Do you know where they cut the piece of the cloth to provide the carbon dating for the investigation? Second, recent research saids that the cloth can date back to the age of the knight templars(7th cen.) or even to the beginning of the Common Era. I am not saying that the Radio carbon dating is wrong. The piece of the cloth which they used was from the bottom left corner(I believe). This piece may have been influenced with the carbon from a later source.

Martin, I have my reasons why He is my Lord. Unfortunately, for some Atheists find it easier to reject a Religion God and believe in Science because it provides “evidence”. Other Atheist label themselves Atheist because they know something/one is out there, but do not know what/who. The rest just do not seem to care for it. I tell you one thing and you probably already know this, but No Atheist is 100% that there isn’t a God(s), regardless of religion. At least, I have not met one ’til this day.

I think that science will have to be the method that we either accept or reject the claim of the Shroud. It has been said that the time in which Jesus was buried, Jews did not use the method of entombing that would have resulted in the creation of the Shroud, instead they “wrapped the body in cloth” not draped the body as the Shroud would indicate. Given the Catholic Church’s obscession with religious relics from the 10-14th centuries, and some would even say today, this alone has to cast serious doubts on the authenticity of the Shroud. I’m not saying that there aren’t some relics from the first century, just not sure this is one of them.

I guess for me, I just can’t seem to get over wondering WHY god has to be so mysterious? Why do Christians accept that he “should remain hidden” but then bring out so much evidence, ie the bible, the shroud, etc, to prove him? “God works in mysterious ways” can also be interpreted that god doesn’t exist and this is a very convenient way of explaining his absence from the world. Just my thoughts, again.

The definition icludes PREJUDICES!

“So atheist are bigots as well.”

Not according to this definition! We are not obstinently or intolerantly devoted to PREJUDICES.

In fact, most atheists are not obstinently/intolerantly devoted to anything/anyone.

Prove me god exists, and I will become a believer that very moment.

Or, why wouldn’t we let god to prove himself?

Radiocarbon dating proved the thing dates from 12/13th century.
Please see refernces yourself by just writnig “shroud of turin” in searching machine.
Radiocarbon dating is today VERY precise!

Please provide sources of which where I can read information. The information from where I been collecting from may be a wrong source. Anyone who understands anatomy? really, Human Anatomy will always appear “disfigured” if put on a cloth like the shroud.
Human anatomy will not play a strong role or will likely be considered in this investigation, photography will. People who understand/study photography, will know that this is not a hoax.